Sick of the talk on the Samuel PI call

[Steve Sewell]

It's getting ridiculous! Asante made physical contact with Lelie WHILE THE BALL WAS IN THE AIR and diverted him toward the sidelines, thus impeding Lelie from his path to the ball. I don't care if his head was turned! Samuel wasn't going for the ball otherwise he would have been running toward it- which was TO HIS RIGHT. Samuel was running toward the fricken sidelines! He ran Lelie out of bounds and that's why PI was called.

It's unbelievable that some of these hacks and homers are arguing about this. It was a totally justified call and not nearly as "controversial" as some are making it out to be.

[Archie]

It's getting ridiculous! Asante made physical contact with Lelie WHILE THE BALL WAS IN THE AIR and diverted him toward the sidelines, thus impeding Lelie from his path to the ball. I don't care if his head was turned! Samuel wasn't going for the ball otherwise he would have been running toward it- which was TO HIS RIGHT. Samuel was running toward the fricken sidelines! He ran Lelie out of bounds and that's why PI was called.

It's unbelievable that some of these hacks and homers are arguing about this. It was a totally justified call and not nearly as "controversial" as some are making it out to be.

Watching it live at the game it was hard to tell but it only took one replay to decide it was a decent call. The Samuels drove Lelie off the ball. He was not playing the ball. The fact that he looked back at the ball at all was irrelevant. If he had been playing the ball he could have made all the contact he wanted (in the position he was in) and it would have been upheld or even caused offensive PI...

I agree.. It was a good call and it did not decide the game. Time to move on.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm sick of it too...they didn't even call it....but they made up for it later when the called it on him.

[cutman0122]

It's getting ridiculous! Asante made physical contact with Lelie WHILE THE BALL WAS IN THE AIR and diverted him toward the sidelines, thus impeding Lelie from his path to the ball. I don't care if his head was turned! Samuel wasn't going for the ball otherwise he would have been running toward it- which was TO HIS RIGHT. Samuel was running toward the fricken sidelines! He ran Lelie out of bounds and that's why PI was called.

It's unbelievable that some of these hacks and homers are arguing about this. It was a totally justified call and not nearly as "controversial" as some are making it out to be.

My thoughts exactly! It doesn't matter that he even managed to look back, he was playing Lelie the whole way as evidenced by the fact that both players ended up moving towards the sideline which was away from the ball. If the defender was not there, Lelie would've moved towards the ball instead. If that's not enough, if the defender was in fact playing the ball, he would not have taken his eyes off the ball. At the last second he turned his head towards Lelie, a clear indication he was playing the reciever!

It was a legit PI according to NFL rules, but whether it should have been called or not based on other standards...that's another story.

[ludo21]

Watching it live at the game it was hard to tell but it only took one replay to decide it was a decent call. The Samuels drove Lelie off the ball. He was not playing the ball. The fact that he looked back at the ball at all was irrelevant. If he had been playing the ball he could have made all the contact he wanted (in the position he was in) and it would have been upheld or even caused offensive PI...

I agree.. It was a good call and it did not decide the game. Time to move on.


We won by 14 points too, i think the 5 TO's had more to do with the loss than a CORRECT PI call anyway.

A CB CANT PUSH a WR off his route, it really is getting rediculous

[Dudeskey]

It's unbelievable that some of these hacks and homers are arguing about this. It was a totally justified call and not nearly as "controversial" as some are making it out to be.

Agreed...™

They need one of these:
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/stfu4.jpg

[B-Love]

Even if they didn't make the call, it would have been 2nd and 10 at the Pats 45 yard line.

A pretty good chance we would have scored some points anyway.

People always act like, "if they don't make the call, Denver wouldn't have scored."

It would have been 2nd and 10 from the Pats 45.

[ludo21]

Even if they didn't make the call, it would have been 2nd and 10 at the Pats 45 yard line.

A pretty good chance we would have scored some points anyway.

People always act like, "if they don't make the call, Denver wouldn't have scored."

It would have been 2nd and 10 from the Pats 45.

and its not like we couldnt move the ball. WE did pretty well, we just didnt HAVE to go the length of the field thanks to our D and ST. Its not the O's fault it went like that. They just capitalized on it.

[Finger Roll]

wasn't it the 40 yard line we were on. I agree we would of at least had a great shot at a field goal.

[Taco John]

For what it's worth, I have a problem with the way PI is called. I think it should be a 15 yard, first down penalty, and not a spot foul. People will argue with that saying that it would make it difficult for long passes to be completed because defenders would know they could interfere and only give up 15 yards and a down instead of a touchdown. I say so be it. It makes it that much more competitive.

[B-Love]

For what it's worth, I have a problem with the way PI is called. I think it should be a 15 yard, first down penalty, and not a spot foul. People will argue with that saying that it would make it difficult for long passes to be completed because defenders would know they could interfere and only give up 15 yards and a down instead of a touchdown. I say so be it. It makes it that much more competitive.

TJ, I agree with you and have said this for a long time.

Much like a Face Masking call which is up to a referee's discretion, you could have two levels of Pass Interference calls.

One, like you say above, a 15 yarder for gray area infractions, and spot foul for more significant or obvious infractions.

I would applaud the NFL for that, if they put it in place.

[DarkHorse30]

The press has miscalculated Denver's strength all year. So, realistically, how can they now admit that Denver has legitimately played a tough schedule, and/or won games without help from a blown call? I agree.....the PI call was correct....because PI CAN be called in those situations. It wasn't a BLATANT interference....but it was the kind of penalty that the NFL wanted to expand, after the Colts got shoved around in the playoffs a few years back.

It's just like the press to focus in on ONE thing.....like Plummer's tenure at Arizona.......and then ALWAYS bring up that EVERYTHING rides on Jakes ability to "not screw up". Until Jake has a bad game, the press will keep saying the same thing.....until he finally does have a "manning-game"....and then they will say they were right all along.

Like I said, the press has been so far off on Denver this year, you can't really expect them to admit how wrong they were. Now it's pure comedy watching them STILL trying to bring up stuff that would mean they were right all along. Scoreboard, my friends, scoreboard.

[Finger Roll]

is plummer not the most under rated player in the league or what. The media and fans of other teams make him out to be the worst qb in the league.

[ludo21]

TJ, I agree with you and have said this for a long time.

Much like a Face Masking call which is up to a referee's discretion, you could have two levels of Pass Interference calls.

One, like you say above, a 15 yarder for gray area infractions, and spot foul for more significant or obvious infractions.

I would applaud the NFL for that, if they put it in place.


That wont happen. It would give the refs to much responsibilty and more room to screw up. Wont happen.

I like the PI as is, its still a little gray on how they call it, but a spot foul is perfect for PI.

[Garcia Bronco]

People will argue with that saying that it would make it difficult for long passes to be completed because defenders would know they could interfere and only give up 15 yards and a down instead of a touchdown. I say so be it. It makes it that much more competitive.

I don't care what the rules are both guys are still trying to catch the ball...when it's flagrant...it'll still get called. But they already have this kind of rule in place at 5 yards and a first down for illegal contact. I think at that point you've got three levels.

[halfcreek]

I have said this a number of times. When I looked at the replay that showed the shot from behind I saw Samuel grab Lelie's right arm with his left hand before the ball got there. I have seen the replay a number of times and it was clear as day once you know what to look for, not who is looking where, what the routes were etc. Focus on Samuel's left hand. The ref right there could not see it as Lelie's body was between him and Samuel's hand. The ref on the other side saw it and called it. It was clear PI.

[40yrpatsfan]

Peter King:
I think I talked to one league official, two head coaches, a quarterback, and a GM as the day progressed Sunday, and there was one common theme: The officials are making too many mistakes for this time of year. The one NO ONE could believe was the Asante Samuel interference on Ashley Lelie. As the GM said: "Don't tell me that didn't have a big part in the outcome of the game because the game ended up not being close. It was huge.'' I say: Allow replay for pass interference. I know it opens up a can of worms, but it's just too big a problem six or eight times a year, and it's a problem that can be corrected


Don Banks:
Nice weekend of officiating in the NFL. Taking nothing away from Denver, referee Jeff Triplette and his crew had entirely too much to do with the outcome of the Patriots-Broncos game.

The 39-yard pass interference flag against New England cornerback Asante Samuel -- which all but gave Denver its first touchdown -- was a phantom call. Pure and simple. Side judge Greg Meyer, with the best view of the contact between Samuel and Ashley Lelie, never threw his hanky. Instead, back judge Gregory Steed waited what seemed to be about three full seconds and then flagged Samuel once Lelie complained.

And while there was no definitive replay that showed Bailey fumbling through the end zone for a Patriots touchback on his 100-yard interception return, logic says that from where his body was positioned at the time he fumbled -- with his front foot almost at the pylon -- it would have been highly unlikely that the ball could have avoided breaking the plane of the goal over the pylon.

But once the call wasn't made that way in live play, there was no way Triplette was going to have the guts to make that reversal without conclusive proof via replay.

[Finger Roll]

bad PI or non PI calls happen all the time get over it.

[FantomForce]

We won by 14 points too, i think the 5 TO's had more to do with the loss than a CORRECT PI call anyway.

A CB CANT PUSH a WR off his route, it really is getting rediculous
Damn you beat me to my point:thumbsup:

[Sideburn]

Peter King:
I think I talked to one league official, two head coaches, a quarterback, and a GM as the day progressed Sunday, and there was one common theme: The officials are making too many mistakes for this time of year. The one NO ONE could believe was the Asante Samuel interference on Ashley Lelie. As the GM said: "Don't tell me that didn't have a big part in the outcome of the game because the game ended up not being close. It was huge.'' I say: Allow replay for pass interference. I know it opens up a can of worms, but it's just too big a problem six or eight times a year, and it's a problem that can be corrected


Don Banks:
Nice weekend of officiating in the NFL. Taking nothing away from Denver, referee Jeff Triplette and his crew had entirely too much to do with the outcome of the Patriots-Broncos game.

The 39-yard pass interference flag against New England cornerback Asante Samuel -- which all but gave Denver its first touchdown -- was a phantom call. Pure and simple. Side judge Greg Meyer, with the best view of the contact between Samuel and Ashley Lelie, never threw his hanky. Instead, back judge Gregory Steed waited what seemed to be about three full seconds and then flagged Samuel once Lelie complained.

And while there was no definitive replay that showed Bailey fumbling through the end zone for a Patriots touchback on his 100-yard interception return, logic says that from where his body was positioned at the time he fumbled -- with his front foot almost at the pylon -- it would have been highly unlikely that the ball could have avoided breaking the plane of the goal over the pylon.

But once the call wasn't made that way in live play, there was no way Triplette was going to have the guts to make that reversal without conclusive proof via replay.


Wahhhhhhhhh
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And Triplett can't overturn it without conclusive proof...has nothing to do with guts.

[Broncoman13]

TJ, I agree with you and have said this for a long time.

Much like a Face Masking call which is up to a referee's discretion, you could have two levels of Pass Interference calls.

One, like you say above, a 15 yarder for gray area infractions, and spot foul for more significant or obvious infractions.

I would applaud the NFL for that, if they put it in place.

Good Call!!! I think that same thing. In the case of Samuel's a 15 yard penalty would have been just. It was a little too ticky tacky to be a 40 yard penalty, but it was a penalty none the less. If the receiver gets raped then add 15 or spot of the foul. If the receiver is barely interfered with or his rout is impeded then it's only 15 and an auto first.

[40yrpatsfan]

Good Call!!! I think that same thing. In the case of Samuel's a 15 yard penalty would have been just. It was a little too ticky tacky to be a 40 yard penalty, but it was a penalty none the less. If the receiver gets raped then add 15 or spot of the foul. If the receiver is barely interfered with or his rout is impeded then it's only 15 and an auto first.

I would agree with that idea, definitely.

[40yrpatsfan]

Wahhhhhhhhh
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

And Triplett can't overturn it without conclusive proof...has nothing to do with guts.

I'm wasn't saying anything, just posting 2 articles by SI so you can see what others are saying.

[Ballhawk]

I waiting for the explanation on how one call resulted in a 24-6 4th qrt lead?

[bronco610]

No changes will happen because they want more offense and less defense in the nfl. If anything pretty soon they will not allow any contact until the ball is touched by the receiver. As far as the PI on Lelie, I dont see how this is any different than when Lynch was being unfairly penelized. ne knows the new rules were made for them to not mess with the receivers thanks to the colts crying. They should have known the refs were going to be watching for the first chance to call them on it so they couldnt man handle the receivers.

[Northman]

And while there was no definitive replay that showed Bailey fumbling through the end zone for a Patriots touchback on his 100-yard interception return, logic says that from where his body was positioned at the time he fumbled -- with his front foot almost at the pylon -- it would have been highly unlikely that the ball could have avoided breaking the plane of the goal over the pylon.

But, the rule states that it has to be definitive in order to overturn it. And from the views is saw i didnt seen anything that was definitive about that play so it is not a factor at this point. Again, the PI call was a bad call IMO but it hardly decided the outcome of this game. If the Pats truly wanted to win that ballgame they would have not turned the ball over as many times as they did. Sorry Pats fans and media, this is about accountablity for not securing the ball like you should. And the Bronco defense did what they have been doing all year by creating turnovers and making plays when they needed too. Denver finished 13-3 playing one of the toughest schedules this year so they are in the AFC championship game for a reason. It doesnt matter if Denver loses next week, they deserve to be in that game regardless.

[40yrpatsfan]

I waiting for the explanation on how one call resulted in a 24-6 4th qrt lead?

One call shouldn't. The Patriots should have overcome it, and in fact had a golden chance to the lead in the 3rd qtr. A good team can overcome 1 or 2 bad breaks, but can't overcome 5 or 6, most of which were their own fault.

But it did lead to 10 points, which is a lot in a playoff game. And I'm sure it gave the Broncos a great confidence builder going into halftime.

It's too bad it happened. I know most Bronco fans wish it hadn't happened either, which is how I would have felt if something like that went the other way.

[40yrpatsfan]

But, the rule states that it has to be definitive in order to overturn it. And from the views is saw i didnt seen anything that was definitive about that play so it is not a factor at this point. Again, the PI call was a bad call IMO but it hardly decided the outcome of this game. If the Pats truly wanted to win that ballgame they would have not turned the ball over as many times as they did. Sorry Pats fans and media, this is about accountablity for not securing the ball like you should. And the Bronco defense did what they have been doing all year by creating turnovers and making plays when they needed too. Denver finished 13-3 playing one of the toughest schedules this year so they are in the AFC championship game for a reason. It doesnt matter if Denver loses next week, they deserve to be in that game regardless.

Can't disagree with any of those points. Right on the money.

[Ballhawk]

One call shouldn't. The Patriots should have overcome it, and in fact had a golden chance to the lead in the 3rd qtr. A good team can overcome 1 or 2 bad breaks, but can't overcome 5 or 6, most of which were their own fault.

But it did lead to 10 points, which is a lot in a playoff game. And I'm sure it gave the Broncos a great confidence builder going into halftime.

It's too bad it happened. I know most Bronco fans wish it hadn't happened either, which is how I would have felt if something like that went the other way.

Yes the Pats played a bad game, I can admit that. Pats fan should admit that Denver did win and by 14 points despite playing a very average game. if we had played as well as we are capable the starters would have been sitting after the 3rd qrt. The media is acting like we played our best football and NE played their worse.

What did Denver do to keep NE in the game? TO on downs from the 2 yard line, Jake throwing a pick inside NE territory, and Wilson dropping an int that should have been 6. These things do not happen, it could be another 13 points at halftime.

[Northman]

Yes the Pats played a bad game, I can admit that. Pats fan should admit that Denver did win and by 14 points despite playing a very average game. if we had played as well as we are capable the starters would have been sitting after the 3rd qrt. The media is acting like we played our best football and NE played their worse.

What did Denver do to keep NE in the game? TO on downs from the 2 yard line, Jake throwing a pick inside NE territory, and Wilson dropping an int that should have been 6. These things do not happen, it could be another 13 points at halftime.


Ohhhh,, but you know as well as i that the media will claim that Pats made the Broncos play like that not the other way around. Ha!

[OrangeShadow]

Sure they lost because of the PI call. not because of 3 fumbles,2 interceptions,a missed FG....

[Finger Roll]

we would of scored on that drive anyway like i've said 100 times

[watermock]

The tighter, almost rediculous enforcement of the 5 yard rule was a direct result of the muggings NE put on in their first SB win. (I forget who were the mugees) It didn't have as much to do with the colts as NE

Refs used to give some slack to about the 8, but IMO, 5 is too short. The funny thing about it is how there never was an actual rule change, and now it's called constantly like false starts. I swear there were not as many false start calls as in the past. There are alot of reasons for this, but it's simply that you now twitch your pinky, they throw the flag.

I guess my main beef is games seem over officiated these days. Jeeze...I have seen the DL breath on QB's and they are starting to become better actors than punters.

I wouldn't have a problem with putting in a 15 yarder for non flagrant PI. That penalty is so subjective. Lelie wasn't really mugged. Sure we are going to support the call. Just like we supported that pathetic tuck call because it was fun to torture RaiderNation. But we all knew it was BS, or should of.

That's basically handing us a TD on a ticky tack patty cake on a fly pattern, and it's questionable if the ball was even catchable. Lelie seems to be better getting PI calls than actually making catches, and if you draw the flag, it's as good as a reception. In many ways, it's better because it totally intimidates the DB, making them timid.

[Finger Roll]

Lelie is a good actor I guess.

[No1BroncoFan]

But it did lead to 10 points,
No, it led to first and goal at the one. NE could have forced a turnover of their own on the ensuing play, but they didn't. They could have held on the the ball on the ensuing kickoff, but they didn't. That penalty put 0 (zero, nada, zilch) points on the board. The only thing it did was give us a very short field.

Ben

[terry251973]

Why is all this attention on the PI in the 2nd qtr?Funny how media doesnt bring up shanny pathetic call on 4th and 2ft at the 4 yard line pasing in endzone.Denver gave the pats 7 points right there or atleast 3 so erase the 7 we got on the PI and the pats either break even or gain 4 on us by our stupid gift we gave them at the goaline.So that makes it still 27-13 or 23-13.You want to talk about giving the broncos points they should look at what denver gave them.The game was decided on champs play.NOTHING ELSE.

[broncogary]

Hey, its the oldest DB trick in the book.

You're running along side the receiver and the pass is a little on the long side, but maybe catchable. You run a little sideways into the receiver (on accident, of course), so that he can't reach the ball.

You can't tell me that Samuel didn't know where Lelie was. If he didn't, he's a pretty shiatty DB.

[40yrpatsfan]

Hey, its the oldest DB trick in the book.

You're running along side the receiver and the pass is a little on the long side, but maybe catchable. You run a little sideways into the receiver (on accident, of course), so that he can't reach the ball.

You can't tell me that Samuel didn't know where Lelie was. If he didn't, he's a pretty shiatty DB.

It's time to let this go, but when I saw the replays again today, at normal speed from behind the play, it was crystal clear that Lelie ran into Samuel, almost knocking him down. Even if Samuel subsequently did something, which who knows, the worst that should have happened is offsetting penalties, or better yet, no penalties, as the back judge ruled.

[broncogary]

It's time to let this go, but when I saw the replays again today, at normal speed from behind the play, it was crystal clear that Lelie ran into Samuel, almost knocking him down. Even if Samuel subsequently did something, which who knows, the worst that should have happened is offsetting penalties, or better yet, no penalties, as the back judge ruled.

Here's another old trick: Try pulling your head out. ROFL!

[40yrpatsfan]

By the way, I do agree with most of the points you guys are making tonight about the calls, Pats mistakes, etc. The Broncos also made some mistakes that cost them points, so to some degree those evened out. And the Pats had a whole half to recover from the PI call and didn't.

Yesterday some posters were going on about the Broncos kicking the Patriots asses, blah, blah, blah. I think after sleeping on this game, both sides are acknowledging that it really was a lot tighter than the score indicated, but certainly that the Broncos deserved to win.

Good luck with the Steelers, they look like a handful.

[phoenixbroncofan]

Looking at a few facts: Denver won time of possesion, made more first downs, converted more third downs, had more rushing attempts, had more rushing yards, commited fewer penalties, commited fewer turnovers, did better in the red zone, missed fewer field goals.Usually this adds up to a win so I'm quite tired of hearing how the PI call was the determining factor. Fact is the scoreboard never lies.

[yavoon]

there was no PI, samuel was looking for the ball and has as much right to try and make a play on it as lelie.

but honestly, who cares? there were still 3 more fumbles and 1-2 more picks(whether u think the last one was all that important). its not like the score ended close, it was a 14 point margin, denver scored twice as many.

[dbroncos31]

by the way, champ bailey's return was a 102 yd TD. i don't care that he got knocked out, IMO he deserves a TD for his efforts. and since we scored on the next play, i think that he should get the TD. seriously though, it's less memorable and watchable knowing that he didn't score and having to see him get blown up. we need to somehow go back in time and tell fergy to pay attention and get in watson's way.

[Lestat]

it was pure PI, he only looked back for the ball for a few secs then looked back down & continued to push Lelie towards the sidelines

[yavoon]

it was pure PI, he only looked back for the ball for a few secs then looked back down & continued to push Lelie towards the sidelines

did u even watch the play? the ball was thrown towards the sideline, samuel didnt push ANYTHING lelie was climbing all over his back. samuel while even OSTENSIBLY trying to make a play on the ball has every right to be where he is. who cares if lelie was faster, samuel can still run towards the ball regardless of how hard it makes it for lelie if it looks like he is making a play on it. and it most certainly looked like samuel was angling for the ball.

[KipCorrington25]

Looking at a few facts: Denver won time of possesion, made more first downs, converted more third downs, had more rushing attempts, had more rushing yards, commited fewer penalties, commited fewer turnovers, did better in the red zone, missed fewer field goals.Usually this adds up to a win so I'm quite tired of hearing how the PI call was the determining factor. Fact is the scoreboard never lies.

First post, you need to post more dude!

[40yrpatsfan]

Looking at a few facts: Denver won time of possesion, made more first downs, converted more third downs, had more rushing attempts, had more rushing yards, commited fewer penalties, commited fewer turnovers, did better in the red zone, missed fewer field goals.Usually this adds up to a win so I'm quite tired of hearing how the PI call was the determining factor. Fact is the scoreboard never lies.

A little selective on your facts. Denver did have the ball for 3 more minutes and had 1 more 1st down. But they had a worse 3rd down efficiency, rushed for 3.0 ypc vs 3.8 for the Pats, were outgained 420-286, had 4.8 yds per play vs 7.4 for the Pats, and the penalty yardage was about even if you take away the bogus PI.

The final score is not a good indicator of this game of how close this game really was. Don't tell me that Broncos fans weren't extremely concerned as this game proceeded. Even after Bailey's INT, the Pats still were threatening. It was Brown's fumble that sealed their fate.

[epicSocialism4tw]

A little selective on your facts. Denver did have the ball for 3 more minutes and had 1 more 1st down. But they had a worse 3rd down efficiency, rushed for 3.0 ypc vs 3.8 for the Pats, were outgained 420-286, had 4.8 yds per play vs 7.4 for the Pats, and the penalty yardage was about even if you take away the bogus PI.

The final score is not a good indicator of this game of how close this game really was. Don't tell me that Broncos fans weren't extremely concerned as this game proceeded. Even after Bailey's INT, the Pats still were threatening. It was Brown's fumble that sealed their fate.

Most games are contested until something breaks the game open, and in this game, it was Bailey's pick. When the subsequent Pats fumble happened, I knew that the game was over. It's far fetched and highly unlikely team comes back from a 24-6 deficit in Denver in the 4th quarter.

I really wish that the media and fans alike would really take an objective look at the outcome of the game. There is no doubt that there were some difficult calls made. There were also some that affected Denver quite a bit, but from all of the whining, you wouldnt think so. How could that official overturn the Bailey fumble ruling? He just couldnt do it. It would have been just as an egregious mistake as the Polamalu ruling. There was zero evidence that the ball was fumbled through the endzone.

Denver fans knew that there was a bad call on the 4th and 1 from the Pats 2 or 3 yard lane. Samuel made a play on the receiver on that pass as well without playing the ball. The refs had obviously noticed a trend and had decided to take care of it by calling the same play in favor of the receiver. How easily everyone forgets that that type of play was made illegal by the rules committee after the Pats had previously made a living off of mauling receivers down the field.

The Pats made it a game and they fought hard, but Denver dominated field posession and did a great job of maximizing opportunity. The biggest and most determinate plays in the game were made by Denver. The defense came through with a forced fumble/recovery, and a back-breaking endzone interception returned 100 yds. Special teams converted a 50 yd field goal, came up with two fumbles (one forced), and dictated field position with superb punting/coverage. The offense converted three TD's in critical moments. Plummer made timely big-time downfield throws (3rd and 17, etc), and the running game got on track in the 4th to put the game away.

Denver won the game on their own merit. Anyone who has seen them play this year has seen them play and win these type of games consistently.

[watermock]

Blah Blah Blah...Shoulda Coulda Woulda's are for losers. After 3 SuperBowls and the Tuck, you would think you could have a bit more class.

Go sit in the corner and face the wall. Here's your cap.

http://d21c.com/billie/gifs/dunce.jpg

[Minuteman]

Yes the Pats played a bad game, I can admit that. Pats fan should admit that Denver did win and by 14 points despite playing a very average game. if we had played as well as we are capable the starters would have been sitting after the 3rd qrt. The media is acting like we played our best football and NE played their worse.

What did Denver do to keep NE in the game? TO on downs from the 2 yard line, Jake throwing a pick inside NE territory, and Wilson dropping an int that should have been 6. These things do not happen, it could be another 13 points at halftime.

Well the Patriots didn't play their worst, just played a game of "mistake football" NE fans arean't used to seeing.

If they cut out one or two of those turnovers it isn't close. After all, NE put up 400 + yards on Denver's vaunted defense.

That aside. I can't believe Broncos fans would STILL be paying attention to this. It was a questionable call. You won. Congratulations. Move on.:thanku:

[epicSocialism4tw]

Well the Patriots didn't play their worst, just played a game of "mistake football" NE fans arean't used to seeing.

If they cut out one or two of those turnovers it isn't close. After all, NE put up 400 + yards on Denver's vaunted defense.

That aside. I can't believe Broncos fans would STILL be paying attention to this. It was a questionable call. You won. Congratulations. Move on.:thanku:

Broncos fans are still talking about it because it pervades every article and talking head that covers the Denver/Steelers game. You cant escape it. It's like the plague.

[40yrpatsfan]

Broncos fans are still talking about it because it pervades every article and talking head that covers the Denver/Steelers game. You cant escape it. It's like the plague.

The PI call has taken on a life of its own because it got linked to other bad calls this past weekend. Everyone agrees that by itself it didn't determine the game. Everyone agrees that Denver deserved to win, they played a smart, 1-turnover game.

Pats fans and players will always have a hard time with this game. They came in underdogs, stopped the run cold, moved the ball at will, and basically owned the game for long stretches. They had rallied from a real tough year, and their 3rd straight SB and history hung in the balance. Then they lose on a call, a year's worth of ridiculous mistakes they never make, and a play that happens maybe once per decade. It was just beyond belief. Then you have Bronco fans claiming it was Denver domination.

So while some of you guys are sensitive about the PI call diminishing your hard-fought victory, Pats fans are sensitive about a gallant effort being diminished.

One thing about Saturday night is that it was a game none of us will soon forget. Congrats again.

[terry251973]

The PI call has taken on a life of its own because it got linked to other bad calls this past weekend. Everyone agrees that by itself it didn't determine the game. Everyone agrees that Denver deserved to win, they played a smart, 1-turnover game.

Pats fans and players will always have a hard time with this game. They came in underdogs, stopped the run cold, moved the ball at will, and basically owned the game for long stretches. They had rallied from a real tough year, and their 3rd straight SB and history hung in the balance. Then they lose on a call, a year's worth of ridiculous mistakes they never make, and a play that happens maybe once per decade. It was just beyond belief. Then you have Bronco fans claiming it was Denver domination.

So while some of you guys are sensitive about the PI call diminishing your hard-fought victory, Pats fans are sensitive about a gallant effort being diminished.

One thing about Saturday night is that it was a game none of us will soon forget. Congrats again.
Moved ball at will?Sorry i didnt see brady moving the ball at will.Yes the pats had more yards thanks to your teams defense and of course our short field which didnt give us opportunity to go 80 yards each time.

[upstart]

Yes the Pats played a bad game, I can admit that. Pats fan should admit that Denver did win and by 14 points despite playing a very average game. if we had played as well as we are capable the starters would have been sitting after the 3rd qrt. The media is acting like we played our best football and NE played their worse.



you are out of your mind.....the donkeys were the better team,Yes,because
the Pats could not out play the non calls.Denvers' D set up in the netrual zone on almost every play,Belichick called the refs on it in the first Q and
thay did nothing.The same thing happend in the colts-Steelers game,but
the Steelers over came the refs (manning to the SB rule) and won.

good luck the rest of the way.......but with the outrage across the Country
with the the NFLs (Denver and colts game) at all cost officating.The donkeys
may be doomed this week.

[Tombstone RJ]

you are out of your mind.....the donkeys were the better team,Yes,because
the Pats could not out play the non calls.Denvers' D set up in the netrual zone on almost every play,Belichick called the refs on it in the first Q and
thay did nothing.The same thing happend in the colts-Steelers game,but
the Steelers over came the refs (manning to the SB rule) and won.

good luck the rest of the way.......but with the outrage across the Country
with the the NFLs (Denver and colts game) at all cost officating.The donkeys
may be doomed this week.

And then again, they may not.:welcome:

[RMT]

There was a penalty on that play, but it wasn't PI; the RIGHT call was "illegal contact downfield" (you know, the Patriots' rule that was added as a result of the MUGGINGS that took place when the Pats played the Colts in the playoffs a few years back). The Pats' secondary mugged the Colts' WRs the ENTIRE GAME ... have you Pats' fans forgotten that?

How soon they forget ...

[watermock]

Oh christ why bother....

The reason we didn't have more yards is we won the TO battle and you had a 98 yard drive.

We won the battle of field positon and turnovers. That's why we won.

I get so tired of the shoulda coulda woulda baloney. Fact is you didn't get it done...period. And tell your prick coach to grow a sack instead of whining like a biatch.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

and basically owned the game for long stretches.

Exactly when did these stretches (as in multiple) occur? No team owned it when it was 0-0, and after Denver took the lead at 7-3, they never trailed again. Hard to say a team that lost by 14 points and was down by 18 at one point, owned the game for long stretches.

[RMT]

you are out of your mind.....the donkeys were the better team,Yes,because
the Pats could not out play the non calls.Denvers' D set up in the netrual zone on almost every play,Belichick called the refs on it in the first Q and
thay did nothing.The same thing happend in the colts-Steelers game,but
the Steelers over came the refs (manning to the SB rule) and won.

good luck the rest of the way.......but with the outrage across the Country
with the the NFLs (Denver and colts game) at all cost officating.The donkeys
may be doomed this week.

As if the 5 Patriots' turnovers had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. As a former coach I ALWAYS told my players that the ONLY way a team can gripe about officiating is when WE played a "perfect game." Outside of that, we have opportunities to control the outcome.

The Pats had PLENTY of opportunities to take control of the game.

[upstart]

There was a penalty on that play, but it wasn't PI; the RIGHT call was "illegal contact downfield" (you know, the Patriots' rule that was added as a result of the MUGGINGS that took place when the Pats played the Colts in the playoffs a few years back). The Pats' secondary mugged the Colts' WRs the ENTIRE GAME ... have you Pats' fans forgotten that?

How soon they forget ...

Who says it was a mugging...thay played within the rules.Thay added a new
rule after the season was over.You even said that....so whats your point,son ?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Stats...officiating...uncharachteristic turnovers...all are losers laments. Bottom line; you win or lose by making plays. Denver made them. The Pats didn't.

[RMT]

Who says it was a mugging...thay played within the rules.Thay added a new
rule after the season was over.You even said that....so whats your point,son ?

And so did the Broncos this past weekend ... they aren't to blame for the "poor calls" nor are they responsible for the Patriots turning into Indian givers at the worst time of the season - in the playoffs.

What's even more disgusting is to hear all this rhetoric about the Patriots outgaining the Broncos 400+ to 280 ... it isn't the Broncos' fault the Patriots kept giving them a short field while the Patriots' LOUSY field position gave them more yardage to earn opportunities. That statistic is very misleading.

The Broncos owe no one any apologies ... enjoy the offseason.

[RMT]

Stats...officiating...uncharachteristic turnovers...all are losers laments. Bottom line; you win or lose by making plays. Denver made them. The Pats didn't.

Exactly ... stats are for losers because it gives them a way to soothe their egos.

[upstart]

As if the 5 Patriots' turnovers had nothing to do with the outcome of the game. As a former coach I ALWAYS told my players that the ONLY way a team can gripe about officiating is when WE played a "perfect game." Outside of that, we have opportunities to control the outcome.

The Pats had PLENTY of opportunities to take control of the game.

What you say is true,and I respect that.I don't blame the refs...you over come the calls.The 5 forced turn overs lost the game for the Pats.But your
D line setting up in the neutral zone all game,helped out.

[40yrpatsfan]

And so did the Broncos this past weekend ... they aren't to blame for the "poor calls" nor are they responsible for the Patriots turning into Indian givers at the worst time of the season - in the playoffs.

What's even more disgusting is to hear all this rhetoric about the Patriots outgaining the Broncos 400+ to 280 ... it isn't the Broncos' fault the Patriots kept giving them a short field while the Patriots' LOUSY field position gave them more yardage to earn opportunities. That statistic is very misleading.

The Broncos owe no one any apologies ... enjoy the offseason.

It really isn't misleading. The Broncos could not move the ball effectively. You're saying that if we hadn't made the turnovers and made you work your way down the field, that you would have? You were gaining less than 3 ypc and were punting every time that happened.

[upstart]

And so did the Broncos this past weekend ... they aren't to blame for the "poor calls" nor are they responsible for the Patriots turning into Indian givers at the worst time of the season - in the playoffs.

What's even more disgusting is to hear all this rhetoric about the Patriots outgaining the Broncos 400+ to 280 ... it isn't the Broncos' fault the Patriots kept giving them a short field while the Patriots' LOUSY field position gave them more yardage to earn opportunities. That statistic is very misleading.

The Broncos owe no one any apologies ... enjoy the offseason.

I never said the donkeys owe apologies,I just said look at the facts.

good luck next week

[Broncos4tw]

Yea, so it was a muffed call? Two words: tuck rule. Sometimes you get the breaks, sometimes you don't. Unlike many primadonna players who snap their fingers at a ref and get the same calls (like Randy Moss did for years with the Vikes), there was actually contact for 15 or so yards on that play. I think both players were doing pushing and shoving, so there was no foul at all. Either one probably could have been called for PI quite honestly. But usually the defender gets the benefit of the doubt, just happens that way.

Regardless, please name one playoff team that gave up the ball five times and won, and I'll feel bad about it. Even with a stuttering O, we had no problems winning because of that single stat. And that call probably would not have changed a thing. Pats played sloppy and that is just that. Five turnover ain't gonna win many ballgames, and even less in the playoffs.

The Baily play out of bounds is ridiculous. Who is complaining? There was no camera angle that showed that the ball went anywhere but straight out of bounds. Maybe he shouldn't have thrown a pick and that wouldn't be a worry at all eh? Trying to get a phantom touchback call with no evidence to try and make up for yet another serious blunder is lame. Mistakes were made in droves by the Pats, and they paid for it. I'd like to think our crowd had something to do with that personaly, they were very loud.

[RMT]

What you say is true,and I respect that.I don't blame the refs...you over come the calls.The 5 forced turn overs lost the game for the Pats.But your
D line setting up in the neutral zone all game,helped out.

Oh, I see, so now lining up in the neutral zone gave the Broncos' defense some kind of advantage? That extra two inches made LOTS of difference as the 400+ yards of Patriots' offense would suggest.

Next excuse ...

[RMT]

It really isn't misleading. The Broncos could not move the ball effectively. You're saying that if we hadn't made the turnovers and made you work your way down the field, that you would have? You were gaining less than 3 ypc and were punting every time that happened.

* yawn * ... the easiest way to add to my post total ... it isn't as if the above quote was worth a response ...

[upstart]

Oh, I see, so now lining up in the neutral zone gave the Broncos' defense some kind of advantage? That extra two inches made LOTS of difference

Next excuse ...

Did you ever play football ? If you don't have time to get out of your stance
on the O line,you can't pick up the blitz

If it goes on all game...Brady has less time to find a WR.Most times the Pats
over come this crap....but the Pats choked and the donkeys won.

[Steve Sewell]

did u even watch the play? the ball was thrown towards the sideline, samuel didnt push ANYTHING lelie was climbing all over his back. samuel while even OSTENSIBLY trying to make a play on the ball has every right to be where he is. who cares if lelie was faster, samuel can still run towards the ball regardless of how hard it makes it for lelie if it looks like he is making a play on it. and it most certainly looked like samuel was angling for the ball.

Baboon, if you watched the play, the ball landed 10 feet to the right of Lelie and Samuel--the ball landed NOWHERE NEAR the sideline. To say that Samuel was going for the ball is ridiculous at best. Samuel made contact with Lelie while the ball was in the air and used his body to ride him toward the sideline. If Samuel was going for the ball he would have not even made contact with Lelie, he would have been running toward the ball instead of the sideline.

[yavoon]

Baboon, if you watched the play, the ball landed 10 feet to the right of Lelie and Samuel--the ball landed NOWHERE NEAR the sideline. To say that Samuel was going for the ball is ridiculous at best. Samuel made contact with Lelie while the ball was in the air and used his body to ride him toward the sideline. If Samuel was going for the ball he would have not even made contact with Lelie, he would have been running toward the ball instead of the sideline.

I dont remember it like that at all.