Gas Prices Going Up Again, Maybe Way Up!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Iran has told the EU to get lost so sanctions would be the next move. Only problem is Iran is one of the largest producing members of OPEC.

Oil already back up to almost $65 again and climbing on this.

This is the biggest reason to spend the money on subsidies, research and development on alternative and renewable fuels right now. Eliminating this security threat from Middle East and other countries should be the highest priority of this country and the BEST way to do this is eliminate our need for anything they produce.

[Rascal]

I agree we need to find alternative sources, but as a temporary solution I still think we should open up Anwar. Plus it would help create jobs.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I agree we need to find alternative sources, but as a temporary solution I still think we should open up Anwar. Plus it would help create jobs.

Opening ANWR does nothing for us now and very, very, little later, lots later.

[Rascal]

How soon could they open up Anwar and how soon could they develop an alternative energy source (an have it implemented)? And how much does Iran produce?

[Rascal]

Intersting read. http://pubs.usgs.gov/fs/fs-0028-01/

According to this the estimated reserves are 7.7 BBO. Based on economic costs of finding, developing, producing, and transportation to market based on 12 percent after tax return on investment in 1996 dollars at a price of $30 per barrel about 6.7 BBO are economically recoverable. At today's price of oil it would be safe to assume that the number would come closer to the 7.7 BBO number.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

How soon could they open up Anwar and how soon could they develop an alternative energy source (an have it implemented)? And how much does Iran produce?

Estimated to take 8 to 10 years before any oil would reach here (and a lot of it never would). Alternate and renewable energy technologies are here now but not being developed ASAP because of the stranglehold big oil and gas have on our government and big business.

Iran has the 3rd or 4th largest reserves in the world and is the 4th largest producer of oil in the world.

[Mile High Shack]

all speculation again

no wonder why energy traders are retiring early

gotta love panic

[Rascal]

Estimated to take 8 to 10 years before any oil would reach here (and a lot of it never would). Alternate and renewable energy technologies are here now but not being developed ASAP because of the stranglehold big oil and gas have on our government and big business.

Iran has the 3rd or 4th largest reserves in the world and is the 4th largest producer of oil in the world.

Got an actual number for the production?

What alternative technologies do you refer to?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Got an actual number for the production?

What alternative technologies do you refer to?

5 million a day.

All alternate and renewable technology (wind, solar, hybrid, ethanol, methanol, hydrogen, biodiesel, geothermal, hydro, etc...).

[Rascal]

5 million a day.

based on that report if anwr matched it, the oil would run out in 4.5 years.

[alkemical]

5 million a day.

All alternate and renewable technology (wind, solar, hybrid, ethanol, methanol, hydrogen, biodiesel, geothermal, hydro, etc...).


What we need to also understand (which i'm with you on this) is we need to regionalize our use of these as well. Solar won't work in the Pacific NW as well as the desert, etc -

We also need to change how we operate on a fundamental level of transportation of people, goods, etc.

[bendog]

http://www.tcf.org/list.asp?type=NC&pubid=967

nothing this guy has touched hasn't turned to ****.

[Rascal]

I think he would have a better arguement if the dollar wasn't compared to the Euro because I don't think it mattered who was president in regards to the dollar losing ground on the euro after it first opened.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The way gas prices came down for the Xmas shopping season and then started to go back up again right after the first of the year speaks volumes about the artificiality of pricing.

If the oil companies gave a rip about the economic health of the country and the public good then they wouldn't manipulate price in this way.

[Rascal]

The way gas prices came down for the Xmas shopping season and then started to go back up again right after the first of the year speaks volumes about the artificiality of pricing.

If the oil companies gave a rip about the economic health of the country and the public good then they wouldn't manipulate price in this way.

It isn't just the oil companies but speculators in the market.

[bendog]

the dollar's come down, and the biggest reason is our deficits. that's bushii's fault.

[Rascal]

the dollar's come down, and the biggest reason is our deficits. that's bushii's fault.

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm just saying that to compare it to the Euro is a bad starting point.

[bendog]

I don't know why it's bad or immaterial. Russia prices its oil in euros now. Many of us watched the fall of the dollar and predicted that OPEC would get their money one way or another. If a dollar's worth 75c of what a dollar was worth in 2000, there's no surprise that oils up in dollars more than its up in euros.

Yes, it's supply and demand for oil. But the chinese, japanese and europeans have not seen as large an increase. And that's because of Jr's mismanagment.

I think that's the tenet of my disagreement with wags over soros. Bushii has created a wonderful biz environment for speculators.

[Rascal]

The reason is because the euro was bound to increase in value from it's inception and that confuses the results a bit IMO (still the same just not sure of the amount). If he had compared it to the Yen his argument would have been just as valid but also eliminated any cloudiness from the Euro. Personal preference I guess.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It isn't just the oil companies but speculators in the market.

That's true, but I was talking specifically about the way prices were held down for the holiday shopping season and how that's representative of the inherent artificiality of pricing.

Another thing that pisses me off is the way the price of gas at the pump goes up immediately when the stock price goes up but takes weeks to come down when the stock price goes down.

This is the sort of corporate extortion that the government should be regulating.
Otherwise, why even have a government (a government we're all paying for with our tax money?)

[Rascal]

That's true, but I was talking specifically about the way prices were held down for the holiday shopping season and how that's representative of the inherent artificiality of pricing.

Another thing that pisses me off is the way the price of gas at the pump goes up immediately when the stock price goes up but takes weeks to come down when the stock price goes down.

This is the sort of corporate extortion that the government should be regulating.
Otherwise, why even have a government (a government we're all paying for with our tax money?)

I agree with your first two paragraphs but I am not sure I want the gov't regulating it. Potentially giving the gov't too much control IMO. But then of course the arguement is which is better to have the control...market/corporations or gov't? IMO this is a bigger question then oil but also to our entire economy. If you give control of oil pricing to the gov't wants to prevent the gov't eventually getting their hands around price controlling of other things?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I agree with your first two paragraphs but I am not sure I want the gov't regulating it. Potentially giving the gov't too much control IMO. But then of course the arguement is which is better to have the control...market/corporations or gov't? IMO this is a bigger question then oil but also to our entire economy. If you give control of oil pricing to the gov't wants to prevent the gov't eventually getting their hands around price controlling of other things?

All I am arguing is that oil companies and other big corporartions should be subject to the same kind of rules and laws as private citizens when it comes to ripping people off and extorting money from private citizens. I'm not arguing for state ownership of industries as W*GS and RaiderH8r like to spin it.

I'm not trying to deny them their right to make a profit.

If you or I steal, we get arrested, go to jail, etc. In other words, government holds us accountable.

The same should be true for corporations.

When the first corporations were formed in this country, the two main conditions of their charters (which, BTW, still exist) were that they (1) serve the public good and (2) cause no harm to their communities.

[Rascal]

All I am arguing is that oil companies and other big corporartions should be subject to the same kind of rules and laws as private citizens when it comes to ripping people off and extorting money from private citizens. I'm not arguing for state ownership of industries as W*GS and RaiderH8r like to spin it.

I'm not trying to deny them their right to make a profit.

If you or I steal, we get arrested, go to jail, etc. In other words, government holds us accountable.

The same should be true for corporations.

When the first corporations were formed in this country, the two main conditions of their charters (which, BTW, still exist) were that they (1) serve the public good and (2) cause no harm to their communities.

Ah. Good post and I agree with it.

[W*GS]

All I am arguing is that oil companies and other big corporartions should be subject to the same kind of rules and laws as private citizens when it comes to ripping people off and extorting money from private citizens.

In LABF-speak, "ripping people off" and "extorting money" means "making too much profit".

If you or I steal, we get arrested, go to jail, etc. In other words, government holds us accountable.

The same should be true for corporations.

In LABF-speak, Exxon making billions in profit is stealing.

When the first corporations were formed in this country, the two main conditions of their charters (which, BTW, still exist) were that they (1) serve the public good and (2) cause no harm to their communities.

There's a big gulf between such inherently vague concepts and your populist capitalism-hating rhetoric.

[alkemical]

http://www.reason.com/0510/fe.mf.rethinking.shtml

Rethinking the Social Responsibility of Business

A Reason debate featuring Milton Friedman, Whole Foods’ John Mackey, and Cypress Semiconductor’s T.J. Rodgers

[bendog]

The reason is because the euro was bound to increase in value from it's inception and that confuses the results a bit IMO (still the same just not sure of the amount). If he had compared it to the Yen his argument would have been just as valid but also eliminated any cloudiness from the Euro. Personal preference I guess.
I may be missing your pt. Don't you agree that had bushii taken the "surplus" and put it into privatized accouts, and not cut taxes to further the deficit, and not increased spending on God only knows what ... the dollar would be worth more compared to the yen and euro, and a dollar would buy more oil than it buys now?

[Rascal]

I may be missing your pt. Don't you agree that had bushii taken the "surplus" and put it into privatized accouts, and not cut taxes to further the deficit, and not increased spending on God only knows what ... the dollar would be worth more compared to the yen and euro, and a dollar would buy more oil than it buys now?

Yeah I'm not conveying my message very well apparently. I'm saying that the in the article itself he should not have used the euro because it is a new currency, relatively, and was undervalued when it first came out. A more established currency would have provided a better arguement IMO.

All well it doesn't matter I'm just arguing semantics.

[TheDave]

All I am arguing is that oil companies and other big corporartions should be subject to the same kind of rules and laws as private citizens when it comes to ripping people off and extorting money from private citizens. I'm not arguing for state ownership of industries as W*GS and RaiderH8r like to spin it.

I'm not trying to deny them their right to make a profit.

If you or I steal, we get arrested, go to jail, etc. In other words, government holds us accountable.

The same should be true for corporations.

When the first corporations were formed in this country, the two main conditions of their charters (which, BTW, still exist) were that they (1) serve the public good and (2) cause no harm to their communities.

Couldn't agree more!

Add to that what slug was saying... we do need to invest in other technologies. The problem here is that most of these technologies already exist to some extent. Already we have 85ethanol in some areas of the country... Why is this not more common? From the best that i can tell we could cut every drop of gasoline by 1/3 to 1/2 (w/ ethanol) without any major changes to infrastructure or the development of new technologies... Why/how is a solution this simple being squashed? If something this simple and beneficial is being pushed aside imagine what will happen to tech that requires major research/infrastructure investment.

[bill criscoe]

"the dollar would be worth more compared to the yen and euro,and a dollar wou ld buy more oil than it buys now" How much does average europen's pay for a gallon of gas?In dollars? Maybe you should move to France.

[Spider]

"the dollar would be worth more compared to the yen and euro,and a dollar wou ld buy more oil than it buys now" How much does average europen's pay for a gallon of gas?In dollars? Maybe you should move to France.
Why France ? why not Sweeden ? Norway ? Canada ? Ireland ? .....Better yet why dont you move ? seems you dont like other peoples opinions , there are countries that will suit that line of thinking ........

[Spider]

"the dollar would be worth more compared to the yen and euro,and a dollar wou ld buy more oil than it buys now" How much does average europen's pay for a gallon of gas?In dollars? Maybe you should move to France.
maybe it is Republicans that should move , America has no room for Child Molestors . or those that support Child molestors ...http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=26393&highlight=Idea+family+values
So when do you leave ?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Why France ? why not Sweeden ? Norway ? Canada ? Ireland ? .....Better yet why dont you move ? seems you dont like other peoples opinions , there are countries that will suit that line of thinking ........

:thumbsup: ^5

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Fill em up, oil futures at nearly $67 right now. The Nikkei (Japan) market was closed prematurely because of a huge loss yesterday. All markets in EU are way down today.

News here today, tech earnings not good, Nigeria and Iran oil
situation driving markets across the globe.

[Mile High Shack]

and it's all BS energy traders making money

the US gets zero oil from Iran and we are the biggest user of oil

India and China get some of their oil from Iran, but if they stop selling their oil, Iran would be bankrupt in 6 months, so their threat is hollow

It's all b/c there is no pressure on the big oil companies anymore, they were nice and let prices slide when they got sent to congress, now that no one is paying attention anymore, they are greedy again and will look for more record profits

I'm sick of worrying about oil.......whatever happens, happens, the energy traders are going to screw us either way

[Bronco_Beerslug]

and it's all BS energy traders making money

the US gets zero oil from Iran and we are the biggest user of oil

India and China get some of their oil from Iran, but if they stop selling their oil, Iran would be bankrupt in 6 months, so their threat is hollow

It's all b/c there is no pressure on the big oil companies anymore, they were nice and let prices slide when they got sent to congress, now that no one is paying attention anymore, they are greedy again and will look for more record profits

I'm sick of worrying about oil.......whatever happens, happens, the energy traders are going to screw us either way
Nigeria is the 4th largest exporter of oil to us so there is some legitimate concern there. But oil is a world market commodity so any disruptions or threats of disruption drive most markets.

[Mile High Shack]

Nigeria is the 4th largest exporter of oil to us so there is some legitimate concern there. But oil is a world market commodity so any disruptions or threats of disruption drive most markets.

yeah, I agree with the Nigeria thing

but Iran is totally posturing, they hold their oil out of the market they are going to be bankrupt as a country

if we get this issue "resolved"

then something else will come up to bump up the prices

the upcoming summer driving season....a cold snap.....there is always something

my advice...if you are young, become an energy trader, you will make enough money to not worry how much MPG your car gets

[W*GS]

Fill em up, oil futures at nearly $67 right now. The Nikkei (Japan) market was closed prematurely because of a huge loss yesterday.

Which had little to do with the price of crude oil and a lot to do with the investigation into Backdoor.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Which had little to do with the price of crude oil and a lot to do with the investigation into Backdoor.

Global markets are all cumulative. The Livedoor investigation caused the selloff on the Nikkei but the Nigeria oil crisis and bad tech news all contributed to global markets selling off.

And more good news.......

Consumer prices rose by the largest rate in five years in 2005
By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer 14 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Consumer prices rose by the largest rate in five years in 2005, reflecting a surge in energy costs, although other prices remained well behaved.

The Labor Department reported that its closely watched
Consumer Price Index was up 3.4 percent for the 12 months ending in December, the biggest jump since a similar 3.4 percent rise in 2000, another year when energy prices were soaring. But outside of the volatile sectors of food and energy, core inflation posted a 2.2 percent rise for all of 2005, unchanged from the 2004 gain.
(CONTINUED)
http://tinyurl.com/96kzm