what's bellichex's strategy going to be?

[orinjkrush]

first on his O: attack the Denver corners long and deep?

if so, the keys are Champ, Fox and the smart but slow Lynch?

and on his D: put everybody in the box, take out Rod's crossing routes and make Lelie beat him?

keys here, fight the run blitz and get TEs open down the middle?

what would you do in his shoes with his weapons?

[sirhcyennek81]

People have this perception that our secondary is suspect...unless you have watched the Broncos every game, you wouldnt know that it is a pretty good one. But hey, Brady can go deep, have williams or foxworth or ferguson or bailey come up with it. Whatever works for the patriots.

:Broncos:

[Dukes]

first on his O: attack the Denver corners long and deep?

if so, the keys are Champ, Fox and the smart but slow Lynch?

You forgot Darrent. I don't think i'm the only one who has complete faith in Williams AND Fox at CB

[SteveTensi13]

Hmmm, I think on offense Brady will open up the offense. We are going to see a lot of the tightend's in the flat, an area we seem to have problems covering, and the wide outs doing a lot of in and out patterns, another area, for some reason, the corners seem to have problems stopping.

On defense I expect 8 in the box to stp the runand a lot of blitzing to force Plummer to throw before he's ready and hopes to get a couple of early picks. Basically to force "bad" Jake to come to the front.

As far as Denver, I haven't a clue, with Shanny I think he may try a lot of reverses and other trick plays. I don't think we'll see the naked bootleg, I'm sure the Pat's have instructed their ends to stay home and contain no matter what happens.

[Dukes]

Hmmm, I think on offense Brady will open up the offense. We are going to see a lot of the tightend's in the flat, an area we seem to have problems covering, and the wide outs doing a lot of in and out patterns, another area, for some reason, the corners seem to have problems stopping.

On defense I expect 8 in the box to stp the runand a lot of blitzing to force Plummer to throw before he's ready and hopes to get a couple of early picks. Basically to force "bad" Jake to come to the front.

As far as Denver, I haven't a clue, with Shanny I think he may try a lot of reverses and other trick plays. I don't think we'll see the naked bootleg, I'm sure the Pat's have instructed their ends to stay home and contain no matter what happens.

Like this????
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/nvrsumr/PlummerBootleg.jpg

[Minuteman]

The pats will spread the field, take Champ out of the mix and get a lot plays in the seam down the middle, especially with Ben Watson.

They'll screen the crap out of the Broncos and take the five yard dumps to guys out of the backfield. Not pretty, or glamorous. But effective.

They won't put 8 in the box unless its short yardage. They don't need to. They'll try to make up for their weakness in the secondary with pressure from the front seven and zone blitzes.

[Spider]

The pats will spread the field, take Champ out of the mix and get a lot plays in the seam down the middle, especially with Ben Watson.

They'll screen the crap out of the Broncos and take the five yard dumps to guys out of the backfield. Not pretty, or glamorous. But effective.

They won't put 8 in the box unless its short yardage. They don't need to. They'll try to make up for their weakness in the secondary with pressure from the front seven and zone blitzes.
mean while Al Wilson will be doing what ? before you yawn again , Al Wilson cover Randy Moss 50 yards down field .So think long and hard before you answer ..... you didnt do very well in the other thread , you can make up for it here

[dbroncos31]

i don't get this idea that they'll be able to score on our D. we were 4th in the NFL in scoring D, and we limited them to 6 points before we had our late game callapse problem (which we have fixed).

and the pats run d that everyone's crowing about? the running backs faced in the last 6 weeks (excluding Miami): Willis McGahee (had a tough year, never got it going), Cedric Houston (who?), a banged-up Caddy (who has struggled since his amazing start to the season), Cedric houston (again: who?), and a beat-up Fred Taylor, who has not been the same RB he was a couple of years ago.

but yet all i hear is about how the pats have "totally revamped their D and its now wicked awesome!"I have a feeling that Tatum Bell and Mike Anderson (with a small mix of Ron Dayne) will expose that "revamped" defense as an average D that is overhyped...similar to the way we exposed the chiefs D on MNF in week 3.

[SteveTensi13]

Like this????
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/nvrsumr/PlummerBootleg.jpg

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.

[BroncoFanDoug]

The pats will spread the field, take Champ out of the mix and get a lot plays in the seam down the middle, especially with Ben Watson.

They'll screen the crap out of the Broncos and take the five yard dumps to guys out of the backfield. Not pretty, or glamorous. But effective.

They won't put 8 in the box unless its short yardage. They don't need to. They'll try to make up for their weakness in the secondary with pressure from the front seven and zone blitzes.

If the patsies try to nickel and dime there way up the field all day, they will lose. They will have drives stop on incompletions, sacks, and most importantly, picks. This strategy basically plays into Denver's D - very fast and athletic on the corners and LBs. Make the opponent make lots and lots of low-yardage passes with very limited run threat.

[elsid13]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.


You're guarantees are worthless, no really because if there were woth anything you wouldn't be posting on internet board, you be coaching the game. IF LBs go up the field to stop the bootleg, expect Anderson or Bell to pop a long one off the edge. It really is pick your poison.

[BroncoFanDoug]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.

Then our running game will kill you - the reason the boot works is because the D is having problems with the run. If you hold that end then you will have one less lineman in defending the run.

[sirhcyennek81]

Broncos dont change HOW they run, its misdirection, and it is very hard to stop. For reference, see any game vs the AFC west the last 3 seasons.

:Broncos:

[Spider]

LOL ...... i guess the rest of the Broncos just stand and watch Jake bootleg ...they dont try and sell run , or pass , they just stand up and say hey jake is going ot bootleg try and stop him ......

[Spider]

Thats as bad as Minuteman telling us what the matchups will be pats offense and Denvers Defense , and acting as if pryce , Wilson , Gold , will be just standing and watching in awe of brady

[SteveTensi13]

You're guarantees are worthless, no really because if there were anything you wouldn't be posting on internet board, you be coaching the game. IF LBs go up the field to stop the bootleg, expect Anderson or Bell to pop a long one off the edge. It really is pick your poison.

Jesus Christ bro, don't tear my head off, I'm a fellow Bronco fan. I'm just saying I'm sure the Pat's aren't going to be fooled by the bootleg! Take a chill pill and watch the sun set.

[BroncoFanDoug]

The biggest flaw in the logic - there is a REASON the bootleg works. If they commit an end to stopping the boot, they have one less person to block in our running game. If we are running, the boot will work. Its a pick-your-poison problem.

[Bronco Bob]

If the patsies try to nickel and dime there way up the field all day, they will lose. They will have drives stop on incompletions, sacks, and most importantly, picks. This strategy basically plays into Denver's D - very fast and athletic on the corners and LBs. Make the opponent make lots and lots of low-yardage passes with very limited run threat.


That's basically what happened on the Pats last drive in Denver.
17 yards
2 yards
incomplete
11 yards
incomplete
intentional grounding, 10 yard penalty and loss of down
incomplete
punt

and the Pats never saw the ball again.
Not a single run on that last drive and 4 incompletions.

[elsid13]

Jesus Christ bro, don't tear my head off, I'm a fellow Bronco fan. I'm just saying I'm sure the Pat's aren't going to be fooled by the bootleg! Take a chill pill and watch the sun set.


Sorry blue on blue fire. It happens. It be a very tough week at work, and since there was no cat to kick, I went looking for NE fans.

PS I wasn't really upset.

[TheDave]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.

KC says that twice a year...Every year! :wiggle:

[RMT]

Hmmm, I think on offense Brady will open up the offense. We are going to see a lot of the tightend's in the flat, an area we seem to have problems covering, and the wide outs doing a lot of in and out patterns, another area, for some reason, the corners seem to have problems stopping.

On defense I expect 8 in the box to stp the runand a lot of blitzing to force Plummer to throw before he's ready and hopes to get a couple of early picks. Basically to force "bad" Jake to come to the front.

As far as Denver, I haven't a clue, with Shanny I think he may try a lot of reverses and other trick plays. I don't think we'll see the naked bootleg, I'm sure the Pat's have instructed their ends to stay home and contain no matter what happens.

And then, of course, sheer genius would suggest that the Broncos come out in 4 WR and empty backfield sets and take the Pats out of their "8 in the box" philosophy and attack them the very way the Patriots expect will help them win the game.

What are they going to do if the Broncos have success, force them to run? I expect the Broncos to come out throwing the ball.

[RMT]

Like this????
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c80/nvrsumr/PlummerBootleg.jpg

#50 didn't stay at home because he was their 12th string DE.

[Jetmeck]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.

Make a bet, I dare you. Once we start running and we run on everyone especially at home, I guarantee you will see the naked bootleg several times and once or twice there won't be a Pat anywhere near Plummer. Coach it all you want, INSTINCTS take over in a game after we start running the ball they will follow the back.

Change your freaking name or it could get ugly around here....LOL

[ludo21]

And then, of course, sheer genius would suggest that the Broncos come out in 4 WR and empty backfield sets and take the Pats out of their "8 in the box" philosophy and attack them the very way the Patriots expect will help them win the game.

What are they going to do if the Broncos have success, force them to run? I expect the Broncos to come out throwing the ball.


me too.

Many times this year we have done this, and i fully expect it again this time. I really hope that a lot of us are right and we start with a PA deep ball. :thumbs:

That would loosen everyone up and get us ready for a day of attacking, not playing it dafe.

[RMT]

me too.

Many times this year we have done this, and i fully expect it again this time. I really hope that a lot of us are right and we start with a PA deep ball. :thumbs:

That would loosen everyone up and get us ready for a day of attacking, not playing it dafe.

I'd like to see some play action screen passes as well as an "option pitch" that they haven't run in quite a while.

[ludo21]

I'd like to see some play action screen passes as well as an "option pitch" that they haven't run in quite a while.


with an aggresive team such as the Pats, i think we definitely will run some misdirection plays to get them out of their gaps. With Tedy back he will maintain his gap and instruct others to do so as well, so we getting them to think for an extra second will be key.

[elsid13]

with an aggresive team such as the Pats, i think we definitely will run some misdirection plays to get them out of their gaps. With Tedy back he will maintain his gap and instruct others to do so as well, so we getting them to think for an extra second will be key.


I just hoping we don't see the Anderson/Bell to slot empty back field set. I don't mind if run twice a game but more kills me.

[RMT]

I wonder if BVP will make a token appearance near the goalline :)

[ludo21]

I wonder if BVP will make a token appearance near the goalline :)


he will pass if he is in tho, my bet at least.

And i too hate the empty backfield, but it has worked.

[RMT]

he will pass if he is in tho, my bet at least.

And i too hate the empty backfield, but it has worked.

The thing that I would like about it in this game is that everyone's saying that the Patriots should force the Plummer to beat them ... if the Broncos come out with that very thing in mind, where do the Patriots go next?

I'm sure we'll see some things we've not seen all year ... shovel pass? halfback pass? flea-flicker (now that wouldn't surprise me one bit, especially if the Pats are throwing "8 in the box").

[ludo21]

The thing that I would like about it in this game is that everyone's saying that the Patriots should force the Plummer to beat them ... if the Broncos come out with that very thing in mind, where do the Patriots go next?

I'm sure we'll see some things we've not seen all year ... shovel pass? halfback pass? flea-flicker (now that wouldn't surprise me one bit, especially if the Pats are throwing "8 in the box").


if the media actually watched Denvers games they would know that Plummer is much more than a "game manager". He is a main assett in our O and without him we would be far from our 13-3 record.

[-Slap-]

Belicheck usually tries to take away whatever it is you do best. Or whatever it is you most rely upon. Manning relies on precision timing, so they disrupt his receivers and bully him whenever possible. They also show him multiple fronts to try and neutralize his audibles.

The Broncos present a challenge to Belicheck because their offense is so balanced. He would obviously like to take away the rollouts and he might well succeed. 3-4 defenses definitely have an advantage in holding the edges, both in recognition and in speed. Although, New England's OLBs aren't the fleetest around, they're experienced and physical.

The real test for the Patriots will be stopping the run. Seymour has made a huge difference in their rush defense. The pressure will be on him, Wilfork and Warren to maintain gap discipline and stack up the running game for the LBs. If they have to commit too much to stopping us on the ground, the Broncos big wideouts will physically overmatch the Patriots undersized and underskilled CBs. Brady will need a top performance just to keep the Patriots in the ballgame.

On offense I believe we'll see them throwing the ball a lot, probably with some success. I doubt if they'll be able to run very effectively. I think Corey Dillon is definitely on the downward slope. I think Brady will work us short early and then try to take some shots downfield. I hope the CBs play them honest. I really don't want to see them get any cheap scores early. Make them execute all the way downfield against insane crowd noise and then make them stop us going the other way. I think the Broncos better personnel will tell over the course of the ballgame.

[ludo21]

good post Slap, i agree.

That has been the key ALL year, make the O work all the way down the field. Make them play perfect to get any points up. It will be tough verse our fast D. Brady is in love with dump of screens and short flat routes, so we may see a lot of completions. As long as we dont tackle like the Jags did, we will be fine.

[Bronx33]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.

I will toast a beer to you when you do fall for it again.:griese: and you need a new screen name.

[enjolras]

I love the 'no bootleg' comment.

It's not like it works out of magic, it works because the running game sets it up. A strong running game forces the defensive-ends/linebackers inside in an attempt to fill those cutback lanes and middle gaps. All of a sudden.. no containment. Part of the reason they RUN that bootleg so much is that it forces the ends/linebackers to go 'oh damn.. we still have to contain out there', thus keeping them from cheating inside and opening running lanes on subsequent plays.

If the Broncos run the ball (and I beleive they will), then your going to see that bootleg and its going to work beautifully. Not only will it open up time for Lelie to work downfield, but it will also keep the running game rolling. Count on it.

[SoCalBronco]

New England isnt a deep passing team. They like a ball control passing game, despite often being in 3 or 4 WR formations. They like the short game and thats what works against our defense as well. Coyer likes to play Cover Two Robber, which starts out looking like a normal 2 deep 5 underneath zone, but by the time the ball is thrown it looks far more like a 3 deep 4 underneath zone because that MLB drops back to the offensive formation's strength at a deep depth of around 20 yards to take away passes to the deep middle, as opposed to a normal drop of about 10-12 yards. The safeties also drift out to the deep corners as opposed to playing around each of the two hashes in the normal two deep. The effect of this is to create a nice sized gap right over the center for the offense to attack...albeit only 5-10 yards at a time. Its a defense that forces you to go the whole field. It helps to cover the deep ball while covering up our speed and rangyness issues at safety, while accentuating the strength of the speed of our MLB, Al Wilson. We will give you the short ball, but we are guessing, you arent going to be patient enough to just take 5-8 yds at a time and have to go 10-12 plays every drive to score.

What they like to do is what we like to give up, so I dont think there is going to be a radical change on either side.

[BroncoFanDoug]

I love the 'no bootleg' comment.

It's not like it works out of magic, it works because the running game sets it up. A strong running game forces the defensive-ends/linebackers inside in an attempt to fill those cutback lanes and middle gaps. All of a sudden.. no containment. Part of the reason they RUN that bootleg so much is that it forces the ends/linebackers to go 'oh damn.. we still have to contain out there', thus keeping them from cheating inside and opening running lanes on subsequent plays.

If the Broncos run the ball (and I beleive they will), then your going to see that bootleg and its going to work beautifully. Not only will it open up time for Lelie to work downfield, but it will also keep the running game rolling. Count on it.

Just what I was trying to say earlier. The bootleg success is not "oh gee, we forgot AGAIN they might do that!". It is a pick-your-poison proposition. If you commit the end to stopping the boot, the Denver cutback running game is one-person harder to stop. If you commit, the boot is open

[enjolras]

We will give you the short ball, but we are guessing, you arent going to be patient enough to just take 5-8 yds at a time and have to go 10-12 plays every drive to score.

Not only that, but the opportunity to make big mistakes is magnified as you have to run more plays (and since the Broncos are VERY good at stopping the run, that means balls in the air) which is more opportunity for things to go wrong. Be it a interception, a holding call, a sack, or whatever drive killer you want.

[BroncoFanDoug]

On offense I believe we'll see them throwing the ball a lot, probably with some success. I doubt if they'll be able to run very effectively. I think Corey Dillon is definitely on the downward slope. I think Brady will work us short early and then try to take some shots downfield. I hope the CBs play them honest. I really don't want to see them get any cheap scores early. Make them execute all the way downfield against insane crowd noise and then make them stop us going the other way. I think the Broncos better personnel will tell over the course of the ballgame.

I agree. Make them move down the field with short passes. They will score once, maybe twice. But the short passing game is a hell of a way to make a living. Every play there can be a sack, an incompletion, and more importantly, a pick. If we can drive them to this offense we will win.

[Bronx33]

I agree. Make them move down the field with short passes. They will score once, maybe twice. But the short passing game is a hell of a way to make a living. Every play there can be a sack, an incompletion, and more importantly, a pick. If we can drive them to this offense we will win.


Some pressure on baby powder boy would be fantastic, beat him up a little bit with some sacks and get him off his game trevor needs to shine in this game IMO.

[TommyD4207]

New England isnt a deep passing team. They like a ball control passing game, despite often being in 3 or 4 WR formations. They like the short game and thats what works against our defense as well. .

Brady leads the NFL this season in completions of 20 yards or more.

They havent run a WR Screen since week 2.

Or they're not a "deep passing" team...

[CHEF LUIGI]

" we should come out passing and burn them deep"
That is EXACTLY what the patriots WANT, they want us to pass!
they have as their primary defensive goal, "stop the run"
if all they have to do to stop the run is merely SHOW plummer 8 defenders in the box, he will check out of every run play and pass the ball.
Then we will all know what it felt like to be cardinal fans for 6 years!
I safetry will be waiting for that deep ball, and eventually, the pats will; switch from man to zone, DISGUISED, and jake will throw it right to a defender!
we must run the ball!
we must establish the run FIRST!
8 in the box? shanahan has had two weeks to figure out some clever way to use ALL of his running back talent to run successfully, even with 8 in the box.
Or maybe he is just a foolish simpleton and wasted away two weeks with another dozen passinf formations and personell packages that take reliable receivers like PUTZ and KJ off the field in favor of questionable receivers like duke and devoe.
maybe even watts.
Run the dang ball!

[cafeman]

Hmmm, I think on offense Brady will open up the offense. We are going to see a lot of the tightend's in the flat, an area we seem to have problems covering, and the wide outs doing a lot of in and out patterns, another area, for some reason, the corners seem to have problems stopping.

On defense I expect 8 in the box to stp the runand a lot of blitzing to force Plummer to throw before he's ready and hopes to get a couple of early picks. Basically to force "bad" Jake to come to the front.

As far as Denver, I haven't a clue, with Shanny I think he may try a lot of reverses and other trick plays. I don't think we'll see the naked bootleg, I'm sure the Pat's have instructed their ends to stay home and contain no matter what happens.
I think that the Patriots will control running game without having 8 in the box.They will defend Plummer the way they do Ben R.Keep him in the pocket where he is less dangerous.

[errand]

I don't think we'll see the naked bootleg, I'm sure the Pat's have instructed their ends to stay home and contain no matter what happens.

I keep hearing this from all the Pat fans, pundits, and prognasticators in the media...and the truth is we played them in week 6 of '05...and they didn't do it. Jake has been doing this since '03, and they still fall for it. Mike has been making whoever our QB is do it since '95, and they still fall for it.

It's not like they haven't known it's one of our bread and butter plays (especially since Jake has been our QB)....and yet there they were 10 years and 6 weeks of game film to see how we do it, and it still wasn't stopped.

[errand]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.

See my earlier post, and you'll see how ignorant this post of yours is.....

The NFL has had over 10 years of Broncos game film to review...and this play still works 90% of the time we use it. so to say the Pats won't "make the same mistake twice" is ludicrous....Is it any wonder we're 3-1 since your little dynasty began? BTw that 1 in the 3-1 was a close loss with a very average Danny Kanell doing the same bootleg Jake will run Saturday.

This play works mainly because Jake is good at playaction, our running game's reputation alone helps sell it, and the speed to which our QB to get outside.....and to be honest, either way you're goose is cooked, because if you tell your DE's to contain, we'll gash you for a 4-5 yard pop running the ball.....and if you don't Jake will be able to hit some big gainers.

Damned if you do....damned if you don't.

[-Slap-]

The real key to disrupting our running game isn't pinching down with your OLBs, its having defensive linemen who are disciplined enough to maintain their gaps.

[Play2win]

Well Across the board, one big difference between these two teams is speed. More than that, OVERALL TEAM SPEED...

We've go it... The Pats don't...

The Pats only have speed in certain intermittent places...

We have Excellent speed everywhere in almost every position...

It is going to show up in many places and it is truly the X FACTOR that will let us take over this game...

[SteveTensi13]

....Is it any wonder we're 3-1 since your little dynasty began? ...and to be honest, either way you're goose is cooked, because if you tell your DE's to contain, we'll gash you for a 4-5 yard pop running the ball.....and if you don't Jake will be able to hit some big gainers.

Damned if you do....damned if you don't.

Ok, Gawddammit, for the last time I am NOT a Patriots fan! That does it, I'm changing my username. TJ help me change my username.:moody:

[Tailgater]

[QUOTE=errand]See my earlier post, and you'll see how ignorant this post of yours is.....

The NFL has had over 10 years of Broncos game film to review...and this play still works 90% of the time we use it. so to say the Pats won't "make the same mistake twice" is ludicrous....Is it any wonder we're 3-1 since your little dynasty began? BTw that 1 in the 3-1 was a close loss with a very average Danny Kanell doing the same bootleg Jake will run Saturday.QUOTE]

Based on this, I guess this means the Pats are going to win another SB this year. I mean, they've done it year after year, right?

I guess I'll call Belichick and tell them to cancel the flight.

FYI, Seymour will be playing in Denver for the first time in his career. I think he can make a tiny difference in the Pats defense.

[Tailgater]

The real key to disrupting our running game isn't pinching down with your OLBs, its having defensive linemen who are disciplined enough to maintain their gaps.

Thats the key to having any success against this offense. I think the Pats can do that with Seymour involved and Wilforks much-improved play since being manhandled by Nalen the first time around.

If not? Game over by halftime.

[errand]

Ok, Gawddammit, for the last time I am NOT a Patriots fan! That does it, I'm changing my username. TJ help me change my username.:moody:

SORRY DUDE!

[PatsRule]

See my earlier post, and you'll see how ignorant this post of yours is.....

The NFL has had over 10 years of Broncos game film to review...and this play still works 90% of the time we use it. so to say the Pats won't "make the same mistake twice" is ludicrous....Is it any wonder we're 3-1 since your little dynasty began? BTw that 1 in the 3-1 was a close loss with a very average Danny Kanell doing the same bootleg Jake will run Saturday.

This play works mainly because Jake is good at playaction, our running game's reputation alone helps sell it, and the speed to which our QB to get outside.....and to be honest, either way you're goose is cooked, because if you tell your DE's to contain, we'll gash you for a 4-5 yard pop running the ball.....and if you don't Jake will be able to hit some big gainers.

Damned if you do....damned if you don't.

A little arrogant aren't you..."little dynasty" it's still 3 rings and until you have 3 zip it..You can trust you will see something you have not seen yet.Im so sick of these snott nosed homers who think thier team is invincible..Face it your nervous deal with the fact you could lose..

[orinjkrush]

ok so what personnel do the Pastriots bring that is our biggest matchup problem? Watson and Ferguson? Seymore and Foster? Not dwelling on the negative, just thinking risks..

[SteveTensi13]

Damn Orinjkrush, that avatar is really disturbing!

[Dukes]

[QUOTE=errand]See my earlier post, and you'll see how ignorant this post of yours is.....

The NFL has had over 10 years of Broncos game film to review...and this play still works 90% of the time we use it. so to say the Pats won't "make the same mistake twice" is ludicrous....Is it any wonder we're 3-1 since your little dynasty began? BTw that 1 in the 3-1 was a close loss with a very average Danny Kanell doing the same bootleg Jake will run Saturday.QUOTE]

Based on this, I guess this means the Pats are going to win another SB this year. I mean, they've done it year after year, right?

I guess I'll call Belichick and tell them to cancel the flight.

FYI, Seymour will be playing in Denver for the first time in his career. I think he can make a tiny difference in the Pats defense.


You better hope he remembers his oxygen tank :thumbsup:

[Mile High Shack]

gee, what will Billgod try to do

stop the run and force Jake to pass

exactly what 13 other teams tried to do this year and still lost

[errand]

FYI, Seymour will be playing in Denver for the first time in his career. I think he can make a tiny difference in the Pats defense.

Yeah, Seymour will make a difference, but not as much as you think...
We could make a who's who list of pretty damn good DT's, DE's, and LB's that have looked silly trying to stop our playaction bootleg...especially if the running game is working.

Marcus Stroud
John Henderson
Kendrell Bell
Bobby Hamilton
Warren Sapp
Shawne Merriman
The entire Patriots D
Michael Strahan
LaRoi Glover
Demarcus Ware
Jevon Kearse
Corey Simon
Jeremiah Trotter

I'd say that those are some pretty good players as well wouldn't you? they fell for it...and so will Seymour.

[Willynowei]

Pass offense vs. Broncos

Three wide receiver, single back formation with ben watson splitting off the line as a wideout.

Keep Corey Dillon swinging out on hot reads and make quick short throws to force the Broncos in Zone coverage.

Then attack deep at the safeties.

Run offense vs. Broncos

Try to crack OLBs and sweep outside of them to catch them on those aggressive blitzes they love.

Pass Defense

Attack the wideouts, jam them at the line, force them off their routes and maintain good physicality at the perimeter. Pull the safeties into the middile of the field ot shadow the tightend and leave the perimeter in single press coverage and dare both denvers receivers to beat the jam.

Run Defense

Don't scrape, penetrate. Attack the blocking and press upfield at the assigned gap, play with discipline as to not chase the running back from behind and keep containment at all times. Force cut backs against Tatum Bell, be aggressive vs. Anderson.

[Willynowei]

I'd say that those are some pretty good players as well wouldn't you? they fell for it...and so will Seymour.

But thats not going to be Seymour's job. Keep in mind he's not playing the contain man's role, and neither were all those DT's you put down. The DE in a 4-3 and the OLB in a 3-4 are responsible for containment. DT's have the job of penetrating as quickly as possible and blowing up the blocking scheme, a job Seymour may do very well.

[errand]

A little arrogant aren't you..."little dynasty" it's still 3 rings and until you have 3 zip it..You can trust you will see something you have not seen yet.Im so sick of these snott nosed homers who think thier team is invincible..Face it your nervous deal with the fact you could lose..

It's called confidence...people without any confidence call it arrogance

Your little dynasty is just that, it's not like it hasn't been done before....Dallas won 3 of 4, and they too got derailed on their way to a 4th in 5.....to me a real dynasty is a team that wins alot of games and a few titles consistently.....look at the Cowboys from '66-'96....look at the Steelers of the 70's, the 49ers of the '80's and '90's. Real dynasty's.

BTW I know we could lose this game...you know 'Any given Sunday", "that's why they play the game's" and all that crap. We've beaten teams before that clearly were more talented than us, and lost to less talented teams....trust me, you're not dealing with a naive person here, clown.

Someone said that the Pats wouldn't fall for the bootleg...I gave reasons why. Now instead of bitching like a girl, why don't you give us the numerous reason why they won't bite and how they'll beat us.

[errand]

But thats not going to be Seymour's job. Keep in mind he's not playing the contain man's role, and neither were all those DT's you put down. The DE in a 4-3 and the OLB in a 3-4 are responsible for containment. DT's have the job of penetrating as quickly as possible and blowing up the blocking scheme, a job Seymour may do very well.

I find it hard to believe that a football player, even one as great as Seymour is believed to be won't follow his first instinct and follow the run.....if they didn't then that list would be empty.

Have the Broncos played a 3-4 defense? Yes, it worked against them.

Have the Broncos played the 4-3 defense? Yes, it worked then too.

46? umm, yep.....worked like a charm.

BTW, if you think Seymour will do a better job than say a Stroud or Henderson , well you're just fooling yourself.

[davdog]

It's called confidence...people without any confidence call it arrogance

Your little dynasty is just that, it's not like it hasn't been done before....Dallas won 3 of 4, and they too got derailed on their way to a 4th in 5.....to me a real dynasty is a team that wins alot of games and a few titles consistently.....look at the Cowboys from '66-'96....look at the Steelers of the 70's, the 49ers of the '80's and '90's. Real dynasty's.

BTW I know we could lose this game...you know 'Any given Sunday", "that's why they play the game's" and all that crap. We've beaten teams before that clearly were more talented than us, and lost to less talented teams....trust me, you're not dealing with a naive person here, clown.

Someone said that the Pats wouldn't fall for the bootleg...I gave reasons why. Now instead of b****ing like a girl, why don't you give us the numerous reason why they won't bite and how they'll beat us.

I'll take that one dwad, I believe the pats can win by scoring more points then the ponies. You "real smart fellas" post all this crap, yet if you knew dick you'd be coaching and not posting on a message board.

[Old Dude]

There's a strange rumor on Denver radio this morning that says that the Pats are planning to flood the Denver secondary with receivers. 3 wide, 4 wide, and even 5 wide, whatever that means.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some three WR sets, but I can guarantee that the Pats will keep their TEs in play. For one thing, Graham and Watson are too talented to keep on the bench.

I imagine that this was dreamed up by one of the geniuses who thinks Trevor Pryce is a discount store.

[sonsofkraftybob]

Is it any wonder we're 3-1 since your little dynasty began? .

Little Dynasty? it is widely accepted that the Steelers of the 70's, SF of the 80's, Dallas of the 90's and Pats of this Century are the only TRUE Dynasties.

I see no Bronco's there.....too bad all you could muster with Elway and Davis was 2. Would have been a great debate between denver and Dallas.

As for what Bill will do. He doesn't exploit weaknesses. he takes away what you WANT to do and leaves you to use your "weaknesses".

IMO your strength is you rushing attack....bye bye. Your weakness is your QB....hello Jake....the game is in your hands....BEAT US IF YOU CAN!

[Mile High Shack]

Little Dynasty? it is widely accepted that the Steelers of the 70's, SF of the 80's, Dallas of the 90's and Pats of this Century are the only TRUE Dynasties.

I see no Bronco's there.....too bad all you could muster with Elway and Davis was 2. Would have been a great debate between denver and Dallas.

As for what Bill will do. He doesn't exploit weaknesses. he takes away what you WANT to do and leaves you to use your "weaknesses".

IMO your strength is you rushing attack....bye bye. Your weakness is your QB....hello Jake....the game is in your hands....BEAT US IF YOU CAN!

exactly what 13 other teams said and still lost

[sonsofkraftybob]

exactly what 13 other teams said and still lost

How many of those were back to back WORLD CHAMPIONS that had Brady and Belichick? Serious question here. Well not really.

[-Slap-]

Pass Defense

Attack the wideouts, jam them at the line, force them off their routes and maintain good physicality at the perimeter. Pull the safeties into the middile of the field ot shadow the tightend and leave the perimeter in single press coverage and dare both denvers receivers to beat the jam.

I would love to see the undersized Samuel and Hobbs try and muscle our wideouts. Lelie has about six inches on both of them and Rod plays much bigger than his listed size. The Patriots pass rush better have their best game of the season if they expect to make this gameplan work.

[Mile High Shack]

How many of those were back to back WORLD CHAMPIONS that had Brady and Belichick? Serious question here. Well not really.

at leat one of them I seem to remember :thumbsup:

[-Slap-]

Little Dynasty? it is widely accepted that the Steelers of the 70's, SF of the 80's, Dallas of the 90's and Pats of this Century are the only TRUE Dynasties.
History will not be kind to you. Three nailbiter Super Bowls decided by your kicker don't put you in the class of the teams you documented above. Typical histrionics from your part of the country, like anyone cared that it took you whiney maggots 86 years to buy a World Series victory.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Hmmm, I think on offense Brady will open up the offense. We are going to see a lot of the tightend's in the flat, an area we seem to have problems covering, and the wide outs doing a lot of in and out patterns, another area, for some reason, the corners seem to have problems stopping.

.



???? The only TE who has done any damage to the Broncs this year has been Cooley or whatever his name is from the foreskins and he was coming out of the backfield. Pats have best collection of TEs in the league, but that sure has not been a weak spot for Bronco defense.

[sonsofkraftybob]

at leat one of them I seem to remember :thumbsup:

Touche'

But I still wish the Steeler fans Happy Halloween when I see them.

[sonsofkraftybob]

History will not be kind to you. Three nailbiter Super Bowls decided by your kicker don't put you in the class of the teams you documented above. .

Actually. they aren't in our class bro. In this era of free agency what the Pats have accomplished dwarfs what they did. You know it though.

[bendog]

Slap, I'm confused on the gaps with the 3-4. Watching Robinson all those years with his one gap thing. And that picture on p1 of the thread with Jake running the naked boot doesn't really help.

What are the NE front 3's gap responsibilities? Does NE play essentially the same as the old Orange Crush? Aren't the OLB's primarly responsible for containing the corner and backside cutback lanes?

[Old Dude]

???? The only TE who has done any damage to the Broncs this year has been Cooley or whatever his name is from the foreskins and he was coming out of the backfield. Pats have best collection of TEs in the league, but that sure has not been a weak spot for Bronco defense.

Fergie has really surprised me this year. I realize that he hasn't been the only guy in TE coverage, but his rep was primarily as a run-stopper, and I thought we'd be a lot more vulnerable.

[bendog]

Actually. they aren't in our class bro. In this era of free agency what the Pats have accomplished dwarfs what they did. You know it though.
No, the test will be whether Billichick can stay competitive as he retools. Walsh and Siefert did so, but apparatly blantantly cheated with under the table. shanny's stayed competitive, but whether Denver will be able to put a truly first class defense that can take out Payaton ... a lot rides on the 06 draft. In all honesty, it was a scheduling gift that even got NE into the playoffs this year. No doubt, the injuries were killer, but the teams NE beat in thier stretch run.... The only team giving NE a run was ... Miami.

NE caught a wave that I'm not sure will happen again in the cap era with Brady really coming out of nowhere, and improving from being essentially a game manager who wouldn't lose a gaem, to a guy who really can get the ball downfield. Billichick's been able to move his cap because Brady was so cheap at first. And, the second wave NE caught was the return of the inside linebacker types. There's a glut of guys like Tedy who are essentially undersized DTs. That's not a diss in anyway. Meck was much the same. Simon Fletcher was in reality an undersized DE. McGinist is likewise.

[-Slap-]

Slap, I'm confused on the gaps with the 3-4. Watching Robinson all those years with his one gap thing. And that picture on p1 of the thread with Jake running the naked boot doesn't really help.

What are the NE front 3's gap responsibilities? Does NE play essentially the same as the old Orange Crush? Aren't the OLB's primarly responsible for containing the corner and backside cutback lanes?

I believe the OLBs are responsible for contain in any 3-4 scheme. Vrabel simply got suckered big time on that naked boot, along with the rest of their defense.

I can't say for sure what New England's linemen's assignments are, but I know any defensive line that overpursues against our scheme is playing right into our hands.

[-Slap-]

Actually. they aren't in our class bro. In this era of free agency what the Pats have accomplished dwarfs what they did. You know it though.
Keep chanting that fairly tale like a mantra. One day you might believe it.

[Old Dude]

...

IMO your strength is you rushing attack....bye bye. Your weakness is your QB....hello Jake....the game is in your hands....BEAT US IF YOU CAN!

Oh, come on. He's not that bad.

J. Plummer 17/24 262 2 0

[fontaine]

The pats will spread the field, take Champ out of the mix and get a lot plays in the seam down the middle, especially with Ben Watson.

They'll screen the crap out of the Broncos and take the five yard dumps to guys out of the backfield. Not pretty, or glamorous. But effective.

I hope to God that's exactly what the Pats do.

The Broncos D is built from the bottom up to counter exactly this type of offense because the best teams in the AFC run it so well.

Denver is number 1 in the league against opposing TEs and yes that includes the likes of Gates, Gonzo twice a year and our OLB shut them down. I think Gonzalez has one TD against us in five home games and Gates has put up career lows against us as well.

Watson really distinguished himself in the first game where he and Graham had ONE catch each and that's with the Pats airing it out with no Dillon/Faulk. He was completely shut down.

As for spreading us out wide? Denver is again pretty good against number 2/3 WRs and the Pats tried to do this in the first game when Brady was knocked a couple of times because of the coverage downfield. And Screen away. Wilson/Lynch have been shutting down Holmes/LT who are the best in the game as pass catching RBs so Faulk will get his face slammed in the turf.

[bendog]

I believe the OLBs are responsible for contain in any 3-4 scheme. Vrabel simply got suckered big time on that naked boot, along with the rest of their defense.

I can't say for sure what New England's linemen's assignments are, but I know any defensive line that overpursues against our scheme is playing right into our hands.
OLB, yeah.

I was never really sure of Son of Bum's scheme. In Den, he didn't really have the NT that a 3-4 really feeds off of. The OC was different. Rubin Carter stood up the center, and rolled into whichever guard tried to nick him, and held the position. Alzado and Chavous were both stout enough to hold the position on the OTs. Therefore, there was always a numbers advantage to the run, and Grads despite being undersized played off guards and fullbacks. Which is really why he should be in the HOF. It wasn't just his tackles, but his pursuit and such deep drops in pass coverage. But, I don't recall the OC as giving a bunch of different "looks." Any of the four linebackers could blitz.

Personnel wise, the Pats look more like Son of Bum. The undersized DTs and DE's

[bendog]

I hope to God that's exactly what the Pats do.

The Broncos D is built from the bottom up to counter exactly this type of offense because the best teams in the AFC run it so well.

Denver is number 1 in the league against opposing TEs and yes that includes the likes of Gates, Gonzo twice a year and our OLB shut them down. I think Gonzalez has one TD against us in five home games and Gates has put up career lows against us as well.

Watson really distinguished himself in the first game where he and Graham had ONE catch each and that's with the Pats airing it out with no Dillon/Faulk. He was completely shut down.

As for spreading us out wide? Denver is again pretty good against number 2/3 WRs and the Pats tried to do this in the first game when Brady was knocked a couple of times because of the coverage downfield. And Screen away. Wilson/Lynch have been shutting down Holmes/LT who are the best in the game as pass catching RBs so Faulk will get his face slammed in the turf.

I'm not sure what this defense is built to do, aside stop the run. Brady could succeed in this, unless the Denver players make some plays. Keeping Den's offense off the field is the key. And NE getting denver in 2nd and 8 or 9, rather than 2nd and 6.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Fergie has really surprised me this year. I realize that he hasn't been the only guy in TE coverage, but his rep was primarily as a run-stopper, and I thought we'd be a lot more vulnerable.

Fergy has done OK, but it is Williams that is really shutting down the TE. He was supposed to be suspect in coverage, but he has been superb. Tuna called him the best in the league.

[Old Dude]

Fergy has done OK, but it is Williams that is really shutting down the TE. He was supposed to be suspect in coverage, but he has been superb. Tuna called him the best in the league.

Cool. That's something I've been trying to get a handle on for awhile. Makes more sense now.

[bendog]

Has anyone tracked the % of time DJ is pulled for the "big nickle" with Brandon?

[Mediator12]

I'm not sure what this defense is built to do, aside stop the run. Brady could succeed in this, unless the Denver players make some plays. Keeping Den's offense off the field is the key. And NE getting denver in 2nd and 8 or 9, rather than 2nd and 6.

Its a modified Tampa 2 cover defense. Coyer has been able to gameplan better than some of the best OC's this year in order to frustrate almost every Single offense in the first half of games. You know, he has gotten little credit for those gameplans outside the OC's of the league. Belicheck the genius kept bringing run blitzes down 11 with no secondary and cover Zero. Coyer called off the pressure in the second half until it failed and he adjusted. Now, who put his players in a better position to win the game?

Seeing how the Pats do not even have an OC, I can not wait to see how he attacks this team in the first half. I guarantee that NE will not be prepared for what he does since no team has had success in the first half of any of Denver's games except KC in KC.

[fontaine]

I'm not sure what this defense is built to do, aside stop the run. Brady could succeed in this, unless the Denver players make some plays. Keeping Den's offense off the field is the key. And NE getting denver in 2nd and 8 or 9, rather than 2nd and 6.

Denver has three LBs that excel in coverage along with a couple of guys in Brandon and Fergy who have been excellent against TEs and pass catching RBs. Yes, we're built to stop the run because Coyer features four DL that are all great against the run sacrificing a prototype edge speed pass rusher.

With Champ, Dwill and Fox playing very well together Coyer is willing to allow five/four yard completions since it allows our secondary to play five/seven yards off the line of scrimmage and attack the ball in the air. The only way I see New England winning is if Brady has a phenomenal game on the road (he's been up and down this year away from home) and Plummer coughs up multiple ints. It could happen but I think the best way I could summarize this game is that:
Denver just needs to do what it has been doing all season long at home to win.
While New England need to play their best game of the season to win.

[fontaine]

Has anyone tracked the % of time DJ is pulled for the "big nickle" with Brandon?

I dunno the exact numbers bendog. I could be wrong but I think DJ was off the field at the early part of the season on obvious passing downs and our nickel package. He seemed to really come on better during the 2nd half of the season and learned from his mistakes. I still don't think he's fully developed his instincts and still rellies on his amazing speed but I guess that's what you get when you switch a young player around in his first two years.

He's going to have his hands full against Watson/Graham but we did a fine job against the two in the first game.

[Rock Chalk]

I think Denver has tohave a really bad game and NE has to have its best game to win.

Thats how big of a difference in talent this year Denver and NE are. This game wont even be close.

[fontaine]

Seeing how the Pats do not even have an OC, I can not wait to see how he attacks this team in the first half. I guarantee that NE will not be prepared for what he does since no team has had success in the first half of any of Denver's games except KC in KC.

I think he's got to take full advantage of the left side of their OL which is made up of rookies. Brady does a great job of getting rid of the ball but I really want Coyer to see if he can confuse the rookie LT by loading up players on that side, showing blitz, dropping some off to disguise where it's coming from and Warren and Myers stunt inside so he lines up on the 3 gap just inside of the LT.

Coyer did a great job of doing just that against the Chargers backup LT, let's see what he does this time.

[Tailgater]

There's a strange rumor on Denver radio this morning that says that the Pats are planning to flood the Denver secondary with receivers. 3 wide, 4 wide, and even 5 wide, whatever that means.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some three WR sets, but I can guarantee that the Pats will keep their TEs in play. For one thing, Graham and Watson are too talented to keep on the bench.

I imagine that this was dreamed up by one of the geniuses who thinks Trevor Pryce is a discount store.

Pats have gone with a 5 wide, empty backfield more than a few times in the past 3-4 years. If they plan on it this weekend, I'm sure they've taken Denvers defensive personnel into account.

Brady is at his best in these formations. He generally knows who he's going to based on what the defense is showing at the LOS. They go no-huddle a lot in this formation also. When someone comes in clean, he'll dump to off to the hot read. He'll take a lot of punishment doing it, but thats par for the course for Brady.

[fontaine]

Pats have gone with a 5 wide, empty backfield more than a few times in the past 3-4 years. If they plan on it this weekend, I'm sure they've taken Denvers defensive personnel into account.

Brady is at his best in these formations. He generally knows who he's going to based on what the defense is showing at the LOS. They go no-huddle a lot in this formation also. When someone comes in clean, he'll dump to off to the hot read. He'll take a lot of punishment doing it, but thats par for the course for Brady.

Yes, Brady does a good job of doing that. I've seen him more than a few times load up with 3/4 WRs and then immediately take the snap and throw the ball without a dropback to the a WR who hasn't gone on his route yet. I'm sure they'll try this a few times when Denver is showing blitz or when Lynch is close to the line to see is they can take advantage of D. Williams coming back from injury. The Pats WR lead the AFC in YAC so they can certainly get it done in that regard but we also have a pretty good tacking secondary so it should be interesting and we've gotten a few picks from that formation since our young CBs are so quick in jumping those kind of routes.

[bendog]

fontaine, I wasn't clear. I meant that Den's defensive personnel changes, aside from Gold, seem to have been plan B. As I see it, teams can nickle and dime ... unless one of the athletes, and they really are athletes, in the back 7 makes a play. Coyer moves them around to create offensive mistakes, and give them the opportunity to make the play.

I agree pretty much with you.

NE should just eschew the run, unless it's shovel pass crap or quick pitches to the edge to keep the linebackers realtively honest, and try to sustain drives to protect their own run defense and possibly tire den's front 4 in pass rush

[Mediator12]

The Five Wide formation can also utilize TE's and RB's. Denver's Five Wide Package almost always includes 3 WR's, a TE, and a RB.

It is not a distinct Five WR package since Den rarely dresses 5 WR. Plus, five WR's in the Huddle alerts the defense that it's going to be a pass before the play is called.

[PatsRule]

I think Denver has tohave a really bad game and NE has to have its best game to win.

Thats how big of a difference in talent this year Denver and NE are. This game wont even be close.



That's why it's a 3 point spread..Sorry but vegas does not give money away

[bendog]

That's why it's a 3 point spread..Sorry but vegas does not give money away
???

[Old Dude]

Pats have gone with a 5 wide, empty backfield more than a few times in the past 3-4 years. If they plan on it this weekend, I'm sure they've taken Denvers defensive personnel into account.

Brady is at his best in these formations. He generally knows who he's going to based on what the defense is showing at the LOS. They go no-huddle a lot in this formation also. When someone comes in clean, he'll dump to off to the hot read. He'll take a lot of punishment doing it, but thats par for the course for Brady.

The Colts killed us with the no-huddle two years running. (With that and plenty of other things.)

If you look back at Shanny's offseason manuevers, most of the attention is on the Browncos, the DB-heavy draft, the restructuring of Trevor's contract, and maybe even the Ron Dayne deal. Ian's reacquisition hardly gets mentioned. But I'm hoping his speed (and the overall increase in team speed with the new youngsters in the secondary) gives us a few more options in defending no-huddle attacks this year.

[Rock Chalk]

That's why it's a 3 point spread..Sorry but vegas does not give money away
Ahh, Vegas has never been wrong on odds? rofl

[GSRelyea]

That's why it's a 3 point spread..Sorry but vegas does not give money away

They "gave" me a good amount last night.......

Michigan ST. -4 1/2 Indiana Final score MSU 87 IU 73
Syracuse +1 Notre Dame Final score Cuse 88 ND 82
Duke -13 Maryland Final score Duke 76 MD 52

Wierd........

Not to mention your beloved Pats laying 7 1/2 to the Jags last weekend. What was the final score.......

[bendog]

Ahh, Vegas has never been wrong on odds? rofl
Patsrule's got me confused. Is he still ignorant of how the spread comes about, or is he attempting irony by admitting the Pats really don't have the personnel?

[40yrpatsfan]

ok so what personnel do the Pastriots bring that is our biggest matchup problem? Watson and Ferguson? Seymore and Foster? Not dwelling on the negative, just thinking risks..

In terms of units:

- Pats front 7 against Broncos OL: advantage Pats. They will stop the run and the bootleg, but Broncos will pass with success. You guys are going to be surprised how much the Patriots will control the run (assuming that Bruschi's calf is healed; if it isn't then all bets are off because his backups are weak).

- Broncos front 7 against Pats OL: advantage Broncos. Pats have 2 veteran starters out: their LT Light and their center Koppen, probably the 2 worst guys to lose. And the Broncos have great speed at LB. But the Pats will also pass with success, with weapons at every position.

Both teams have great QB's and great coaching, so it looks very even. Special teams could be the deciding factor in this game.

[sirhcyennek81]

Keep hearing week after week how our run game is going to be controlled, how teams are going to stop the boot, ect. It never happens. As for bellechik's strategy: he will need to find something else to do in late January...

:Broncos:

[Tailgater]

Slap, I'm confused on the gaps with the 3-4. Watching Robinson all those years with his one gap thing. And that picture on p1 of the thread with Jake running the naked boot doesn't really help.

What are the NE front 3's gap responsibilities? Does NE play essentially the same as the old Orange Crush? Aren't the OLB's primarly responsible for containing the corner and backside cutback lanes?

Pats play 2 gap, their job being to hold the LOS and tie up blockers, keeping them off the LB's. Last time, Wilfork was still in his college phase, trying to get upfield after the ball, and he was toyed with by Nalen. He's now staying back a bit and watching, then deciding the correct way to take on his assignment. Worked like a charm so far. Lets see if he can have similar success against a pro like Nalen.

[sonsofkraftybob]

Oh, come on. He's not that bad.

J. Plummer 17/24 262 2 0

I didn't say he was bad.....just unproven. Some Pats fans may say downright terrible with a 1-3 record but that is a small sampling...so I'll go with unproven.

[40yrpatsfan]

Keep hearing week after week how our run game is going to be controlled, how teams are going to stop the boot, ect. It never happens. As for bellechik's strategy: he will need to find something else to do in late January...

:Broncos:

Many teams have good front 7's, as do the Patriots. But it's about scheme in a game of this magnitude. Belichik has repeatedly stopped strong running games in the playoffs (or whatever the opponent's offensive strength is), to the tune of 10-0.

Denver's strength is its running game, so he will take that away. I'll be very surprised if the Broncos exceed 40 yards rushing in the 1st half. With halftime adjustments, who knows from there. And who knows if the Broncos can successfully deal with that, maybe they'll be able to throw the ball at will. But I think that in at least the first half of this game, the Broncos run game will be stopped cold.

[sonsofkraftybob]

Keep chanting that fairly tale like a mantra. One day you might believe it.

So I guess 3 in a row when this year is all said and done....something that has never been done ever...will be frowned upon by history.

Please. You are truly scared.

[-Slap-]

So I guess 3 in a row when this year is all said and done....something that has never been done ever...will be frowned upon by history.

Please. You are truly scared.

Yeah, you'll be saying that Saturday night when the Patriots' secondary is trying to shake Plummer's piss out of their hair.

[orinjkrush]

i hope it doesn't boil down to Vinatieri vs Elam. trading FG attempts in the last 4 minutes or so.

[sonsofkraftybob]

Yeah, you'll be saying that Saturday night when the Patriots' secondary is trying to shake Plummer's piss out of their hair.

If I had a nickle for everytime this was said....I'd have 50 cents. do the math.

[Tailgater]

i hope it doesn't boil down to Vinatieri vs Elam. trading FG attempts in the last 4 minutes or so.

Me too. My stomach can't take the punishment anymore!

[Spider]

;D the niners run @ a 3 peat , niners went 14-2 , hosting the 13-3 Giants in the NFC championship game ..... guess what Ha!

[bendog]

Pats play 2 gap, their job being to hold the LOS and tie up blockers, keeping them off the LB's. Last time, Wilfork was still in his college phase, trying to get upfield after the ball, and he was toyed with by Nalen. He's now staying back a bit and watching, then deciding the correct way to take on his assignment. Worked like a charm so far. Lets see if he can have similar success against a pro like Nalen.
So, the two inside backers have no specific gap assignments? That's sort of what I think I see from the Pats.

However, remember Den runs the zone blocking, so the gaps move, and the olnemen cut guys in the gaps. We'll see if Wilfork can keep his feet.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Many teams have good front 7's, as do the Patriots. But it's about scheme in a game of this magnitude. Belichik has repeatedly stopped strong running games in the playoffs (or whatever the opponent's offensive strength is), to the tune of 10-0.

Denver's strength is its running game, so he will take that away. I'll be very surprised if the Broncos exceed 40 yards rushing in the 1st half. With halftime adjustments, who knows from there. And who knows if the Broncos can successfully deal with that, maybe they'll be able to throw the ball at will. But I think that in at least the first half of this game, the Broncos run game will be stopped cold.
Please...the Patsies have one of the worst pass defenses in the NFL. Plummer will come out firing and Rod Smith will once again school your secondary like a teenage virgin in a Vegas cat house. Then our O-line will do what they always do...run your D-line into exhaustion and cut through the Patsie run defense like a chainsaw. You are 5-3 on the road and you're coming into OUR house, to face a team that's beat up on you for almost 50 years running and facing the NFL's best homefield advantage.

Your run is done.

[bendog]

Many teams have good front 7's, as do the Patriots. But it's about scheme in a game of this magnitude. Belichik has repeatedly stopped strong running games in the playoffs (or whatever the opponent's offensive strength is), to the tune of 10-0.

Denver's strength is its running game, so he will take that away. I'll be very surprised if the Broncos exceed 40 yards rushing in the 1st half. With halftime adjustments, who knows from there. And who knows if the Broncos can successfully deal with that, maybe they'll be able to throw the ball at will. But I think that in at least the first half of this game, the Broncos run game will be stopped cold.
but HOW will he take it that way?

[davdog]

I'll be really surprised if the pats can take the run away from the ponies, they are a running machine. My idea for victory is that they will just outscore them. I know, I know, pretty simple huh.

[Old Dude]

I didn't say he was bad.....just unproven. Some Pats fans may say downright terrible with a 1-3 record but that is a small sampling...so I'll go with unproven.

Honestly, I'm not tossing around smack here. But if I was a Pats fan, I'd be a little concerned about my team's secondary. You folks are 26th against the pass.

Jake's passer rating is 90.2 this year, which isn't bad.

I know the standard line is that Starks sucked, so the rankings are skewed and now that he's gone, everything is fine.

But your best games in the current streak have come against Simms and Losman, who aren't really much more than rookies, and a fairly rusty and immobile Leftwich. I'd think that if there is someone who is somewhat "unproven" it might be your defensive backfield.

[-Slap-]

Unproven and undersized. They're going to get worked.

[Mile High Shack]

I'll be really surprised if the pats can take the run away from the ponies, they are a running machine. My idea for victory is that they will just outscore them. I know, I know, pretty simple huh.

so you are discouting the ability of our defense then?

[sonsofkraftybob]

Honestly, I'm not tossing around smack here. But if I was a Pats fan, I'd be a little concerned about my team's secondary. You folks are 26th against the pass.



But that was said last year when Indy came to town and Ty Law was out and Ty Poole was out and Seymour was out. They said Samuel and gay couldn't hold the vaunted Indy passing attack under 30 that day........they held them to 3.

So I guess what I'm saying is that now that we have players who have played a while and know what each other is doing they have improved and made plays. The INT's are up and the Big Play is down. granted we haven't been facing the '99 Rams...but again...somehow...someway...belichick ALWAYS finds a way to shut down an opponent in postseason. Always.

[Mile High Shack]

But that was said last year when Indy came to town and Ty Law was out and Ty Poole was out and Seymour was out. They said Samuel and gay couldn't hold the vaunted Indy passing attack under 30 that day........they held them to 3.

So I guess what I'm saying is that now that we have players who have played a while and know what each other is doing they have improved and made plays. The INT's are up and the Big Play is down. granted we haven't been facing the '99 Rams...but again...somehow...someway...belichick ALWAYS finds a way to shut down an opponent in postseason. Always.

wow

I didn't know you played Indy on the road that day

[sonsofkraftybob]

wow

I didn't know you played Indy on the road that day

You think a 42 point difference in what they scored against you and us was due to "Homefield?

In that case the Bronco's should be favored by 45 1/2 saturday.

[davdog]

so you are discouting the ability of our defense then?


I'm not, the broncos D is solid but the pats will score on them, and they'll score enough to win.

[Mile High Shack]

I'm not, the broncos D is solid but the pats will score on them, and they'll score enough to win.

that might be true, if your defense could hold the broncos to less than 17 :)

[Mile High Shack]

You think a 42 point difference in what they scored against you and us was due to "Homefield?

In that case the Bronco's should be favored by 45 1/2 saturday.

it's mostly caused of you being in Manning's head and they don't play as well outdoors in the cold

so yeah...pretty much...if you would've played the Colts in their house with their crowd noise, they probably would've at least scored 25 on you

[Spider]

I'm not, the broncos D is solid but the pats will score on them, and they'll score enough to win.
Once upon a time in a magic Kingdom , there was a kind and gentle King , named King Bill

[davdog]

wow

I didn't know you played Indy on the road that day


I don't think it's as big a deal for an outdoor stadium team to go to another outdoor stadium and play ball as it is to go to a dome. Would you feel any differently if the game was in Foxborough? The broncos could just as easily win in foxborough as they could in denver and the same goes for the pats. You can throw out the noise factor and I guess you'd be right but other then that I don't think it's a big deal.

[Mile High Shack]

I don't think it's as big a deal for an outdoor stadium team to go to another outdoor stadium and play ball as it is to go to a dome. Would you feel any differently if the game was in Foxborough? The broncos could just as easily win in foxborough as they could in denver and the same goes for the pats. You can throw out the noise factor and I guess you'd be right but other then that I don't think it's a big deal.

which is why 82% of divisional winners are the home team

you are right

not a big deal

[davdog]

which is why 82% of divisional winners are the home team

you are right

not a big deal


I hear you, BUT generally speaking the team playing at home in the playoffs IS the better team, that's why they have home field advantage. I just don't feel thats the case in this game.

[Mile High Shack]

I hear you, BUT generally speaking the team playing at home in the playoffs IS the better team, that's why they have home field advantage. I just don't feel thats the case in this game.

LOL

13-3 says otherwise

this is the 2005 season

not the 2004 season

and you have yet to give a reason other than "we are back to back champs" that qualifies that statement of your team being better than Denver

[davdog]

LOL

13-3 says otherwise

this is the 2005 season

not the 2004 season

and you have yet to give a reason other than "we are back to back champs" that qualifies that statement of your team being better than Denver


I don't believe I ever used the back to back champs reason for why we would win. I believe we will win because BB is the best coach in football right now and he's going to devise a game plan to beat the broncos.

[shaftedelic]

LOL

13-3 says otherwise

this is the 2005 season

not the 2004 season

and you have yet to give a reason other than "we are back to back champs" that qualifies that statement of your team being better than Denver


Guess that's why they are actually going to play the game this Saturday..

[Spider]

I don't believe I ever used the back to back champs reason for why we would win. I believe we will win because BB is the best coach in football right now and he's going to devise a game plan to beat the broncos.
Then find a cure for cancer .......

[Mile High Shack]

Guess that's why they are actually going to play the game this Saturday..

not if pats fans had anything to do with it

I mean..."you are back to back champs" after all

that automatically guarantees a win obviously

[Mile High Shack]

I don't believe I ever used the back to back champs reason for why we would win. I believe we will win because BB is the best coach in football right now and he's going to devise a game plan to beat the broncos.

who the hell is this Mike Shanahan fella anyway?

he couldn't coach a pee wee team

[davdog]

who the hell is this Mike Shanahan fella anyway?

he couldn't coach a pee wee team


He's very good, but does he have 5 SB rings?

[Mile High Shack]

He's very good, but does he have 5 SB rings?

I do know he bows down before the alter of Billgod every night and prays for mercy this saturday night

[Spider]

He's very good, but does he have 5 SB rings?
I think he has 5 fingers though

[shaftedelic]

not if pats fans had anything to do with it

I mean..."you are back to back champs" after all

that automatically guarantees a win obviously


Just like your 13-3 guarantees you a win.. or the Broncos won in the regular season.

[Tailgater]

So, the two inside backers have no specific gap assignments? That's sort of what I think I see from the Pats.

However, remember Den runs the zone blocking, so the gaps move, and the olnemen cut guys in the gaps. We'll see if Wilfork can keep his feet.

Correct. Thats why it's great to have Tedy back. Very instinctive on hitting the right gap, while Beisel would always overpursue, at least earleir in the year. He's improved a lot.

Wilfork MUST improve on his game from earlier in the year. I think he can....I HOPE he can. :thumbs:

[davdog]

I do know he bows down before the alter of Billgod every night and prays for mercy this saturday night


All right then, I'm glad that's settled.

[Mile High Shack]

Just like your 13-3 guarantees you a win.. or the Broncos won in the regular season.

nothing is guaranteed

I just like or chances to win more so than yours based on matchups and personnel

[shaftedelic]

nothing is guaranteed

I just like or chances to win more so than yours based on matchups and personnel


And I like how the Patriots have been playing late in the season, their post season record and hopefully if they win this weekend we'll stop hearing the "This week will be the real test for the Pats". If Tampa and Jacksonville weren't it, hopefully the Broncos will be..

[Tailgater]

which is why 82% of divisional winners are the home team

you are right

not a big deal

The Pats and Colts domination in the playoffs the last few years have skewed this number a lot...:D

Pats will bring it back closer to a reasonable #.

[Tailgater]

LOL

13-3 says otherwise

this is the 2005 season

not the 2004 season

and you have yet to give a reason other than "we are back to back champs" that qualifies that statement of your team being better than Denver

History is just that, History.

This is the 2006 playoffs, not the 2005 season, or the 2004 season. Lets be accurate (and consistant).

[Mile High Shack]

And I like how the Patriots have been playing late in the season, their post season record and hopefully if they win this weekend we'll stop hearing the "This week will be the real test for the Pats". If Tampa and Jacksonville weren't it, hopefully the Broncos will be..

it's doubtful

we don't even belong on the same field as the mighty messiah's

[Spider]

Just wondering ..... isnt last weeks game history also ? and if so ,why bring up the way the pats been playing last part of season ?

[Mile High Shack]

Just wondering ..... isnt last weeks game history also ? and if so ,why bring up the way the pats been playing last part of season ?

tell him to be accurate (and consistant)

[errand]

I'll take that one dwad, I believe the pats can win by scoring more points then the ponies. You "real smart fellas" post all this crap, yet if you knew dick you'd be coaching and not posting on a message board.


So you really think the Pats will win if they score more points than Denver?

Yeah, you should really be questioning anyone's intelligence.......

[Spider]

tell him to be accurate (and consistant)
:~ohyah!: I know . I was talking to tailgater . I am sure he got his name for his driving skills

[errand]

How many of those were back to back WORLD CHAMPIONS that had Brady and Belichick? Serious question here. Well not really.

This season? Only one comes to mind .... New England in week 6.

[Spider]

So you really think the Pats will win if they score more points than Denver?

Yeah, you should really be questioning anyone's intelligence.......
Score more point .Ha! .. as if that would work

[errand]

Actually. they aren't in our class bro. In this era of free agency what the Pats have accomplished dwarfs what they did. You know it though.

you're so full of ****....

[errand]

He's very good, but does he have 5 SB rings?

No, he only has 3.....then again this season isn't over yet now is it?

[Bronx33]

Answer this patty fans in our first meeting who was to blame for the loss? the O or D?

[Tailgater]

Answer this patty fans in our first meeting who was to blame for the loss? the O or D?

The D.

Back at you: What won the game for Denver?

[Hotrod]

Answer this patty fans in our first meeting who was to blame for the loss? the O or D?

I guess it was the mighty Tedy was not playing. He does it all

[Tailgater]

No, he only has 3.....then again this season isn't over yet now is it?

Sorry. He has 5 rings.

3 as a HC with the Pats, 2 w/ the Giants as DC.

[Hotrod]

Sorry. He has 5 rings.

3 as a HC with the Pats, 2 w/ the Giants as DC.

Im guessing nobodys ever called you "johnny on the spot" have they ;)

[Spider]

Sorry. He has 5 rings.

3 as a HC with the Pats, 2 w/ the Giants as DC.
Errand you have to shoot low , this yankee is on a shetland .......... in simple terms tailgater , he was talking about Shanny you goof. with thinking like this , it is a wonder the south lost .....

[davdog]

Errand you have to shoot low , this yankee is on a shetland .......... in simple terms tailgater , he was talking about Shanny you goof. with thinking like this , it is a wonder the south lost .....


Hey I've already said this once you don't ever call anyone from NE a yankee.

[shaftedelic]

I guess it was the mighty Tedy was not playing. He does it all

The run D turned around when Seymour came back. It also helps having your starting DB's play for more then a week together. And yes, it does help having the Mighty Teddy back.

[shaftedelic]

Hey I've already said this once you don't ever call anyone from NE a yankee.

Yeah.. that's just not right.. Maybe we should start calling them Raiders.

[Hotrod]

Yeah.. that's just not right.. Maybe we should start calling them Raiders.

Oh no you didnt notsofast

[Spider]

Hey I've already said this once you don't ever call anyone from NE a yankee.
Ok how about Mr Yankee ?

[Spider]

Yeah.. that's just not right.. Maybe we should start calling them Raiders.
after saturday , you will be calling us the winner , so it realy doesnt matter ......

[GSRelyea]

Hey I've already said this once you don't ever call anyone from NE a yankee.

PLEASE DON'T CALL ANYONE FROM NE A YANKEE---- IT IS AN INSULT TO US TRUE YANKEES!!!!!! They are commonly referred to as ma$$holes.

[shaftedelic]

after saturday , you will be calling us the winner , so it realy doesnt matter ......


Why wait... You look like a real winner today...

[davdog]

PLEASE DON'T CALL ANYONE FROM NE A YANKEE---- IT IS AN INSULT TO US TRUE YANKEES!!!!!! They are commonly referred to as ma$$holes.


That's right, and don't you forget it. Choke, choke.

[shaftedelic]

PLEASE DON'T CALL ANYONE FROM NE A YANKEE---- IT IS AN INSULT TO US TRUE YANKEES!!!!!! They are commonly referred to as ma$$holes.


ma$$hole is much better then a Yankee.

[Spider]

Why wait... You look like a real winner today...
Just a matter of time másshole .....

[shaftedelic]

Just a matter of time másshole .....


Nice one winner.

[Spider]

Nice one winner.
Thanks Yankeee ......

[bendog]

Correct. Thats why it's great to have Tedy back. Very instinctive on hitting the right gap, while Beisel would always overpursue, at least earleir in the year. He's improved a lot.

Wilfork MUST improve on his game from earlier in the year. I think he can....I HOPE he can. :thumbs:
The old Orange Crush was somewhat similar, except Rubin Carter the NT was the only true two gap guy. He'd go to whatever gap he was pushed and take on the guard too. Inside backer takes on the unoccupied guard, leaving one inside backer to fill. Meanwhile the two DE's would "hold" the offensive tackles. This is illegal now. The two outside linebackers were undersized and fast, allowing them to collapse quickly to clean up on the inside. Zone blocking wasn't around then, or I dont' recall it. I'm pretty clear on the 70's but the 80s are blur.

The way I see it, defending the zone blocking scheme from a 3-4, the 3 down defensive lineman have to move with the offensive lineman in front of them, and keeping contact physically would be wise, since chops are illegal, but not "holding." (-: The two inside backers similarly have to roughly maintain their positions vis a vis the 3 dlinemen (on either side of the NT and inside the DTs). The problem for the inside backers is that they are very vulnerable to getting cut from the backside of the play, which is Den's strategy.

Den has historically had trouble with guys liks SD's NT Jamal Williams. Williams is simply so strong that as Nalen would step to a zone, Williams would just push him to ground and penetrate right through him, and blow the play up. Meaning no disrespect, I think the reason Den historically has done pretty good running at NE's 3-4 pretty much goes back to this.

[bendog]

you're so full of ****....
I can't believe this mook didn't get on my ignore list the last time den played ne.

[sonsofkraftybob]

I can't believe this mook didn't get on my ignore list the last time den played ne.

It's a love hate relationship.

BTW, this thread deteriorated quickly.

[Spider]

It's a love hate relationship.

BTW, this thread deteriorated quickly.
you are right , how can we compete with , the Pats will win if they score more points .... Such insight is hard to equal .......

[sonsofkraftybob]

you are right , how can we compete with , the Pats will win if they score more points .... Such insight is hard to equal .......

I don't know if your a hockey fan but back in the 80's the Bruins had an announcer, Derek Sanderson, he played with Orr during the Cup years, anyways he would always give his keys to the game...prior to the puck dropping.......his last comment was inevibably..."Score more goals"

Me and my friends always got a kick out of it...

[shaftedelic]

Madden is usually good for a line like that..

[Spider]

I don't know if your a hockey fan but back in the 80's the Bruins had an announcer, Derek Sanderson, he played with Orr during the Cup years, anyways he would always give his keys to the game...prior to the puck dropping.......his last comment was inevibably..."Score more goals"

Me and my friends always got a kick out of it...
how sweet . you have friends ..Warms my heart ........ ;D ..With me it is football first , football second , Football 3 rd .All in that order

[Spider]

Madden is usually good for a line like that..
Madden ...... you have second and ten cause the reciever dropped the pass , now if he had caught it then it would be first down , but since he dropped it , it is second down .... on the goal line you need this fat guy to whap that fat guy , and the other fat guy to go boom here , to open a hole for the skinny guy , so you ahve alot of whap and alot of boom .....

[ludo21]

how sweet . you have friends ..Warms my heart ........ ;D ..With me it is football first , football second , Football 3 rd .All in that order


out in Wyoming i wouldnt expect their to be real people except horses and cattle. :egbgb:

[sonsofkraftybob]

how sweet . you have friends ..Warms my heart ........ ;D ..With me it is football first , football second , Football 3 rd .All in that order

Actually, I made up the part about the friends for better effect.

You must have had a rough last 7 years then. Esp. the last 2. whoaaa.

I have been on a 4 year party....they are all starting to blur together now though.

[Natedogg]

Well this was the type of thread i lived for... until it degenerated. My prediction is that Belecheck will "go indy" with 5 wide/hurry up offence. I like the Denver D though. This season we were built to stop the "run and shoot." I have a feeling Dwill will be near full strenght, play great, and get at least one pick.

@ sonsofkraftybob, does vladimir putin still have your superbowl ring?

[shaftedelic]

Madden ...... you have second and ten cause the reciever dropped the pass , now if he had caught it then it would be first down , but since he dropped it , it is second down .... on the goal line you need this fat guy to whap that fat guy , and the other fat guy to go boom here , to open a hole for the skinny guy , so you ahve alot of whap and alot of boom .....

Did you see that there.. The running back just got small.. when you run in the middle you need to get small..

[Spider]

out in Wyoming i wouldnt expect their to be real people except horses and cattle. :egbgb:
shh it is a seceret ..... though we dont have much of a star trek / DD movement here ;D

[shaftedelic]

Actually, I made up the part about the friends for better effect.

You must have had a rough last 7 years then. Esp. the last 2. whoaaa.

I have been on a 4 year party....they are all starting to blur together now though.


Hear that.. Play a season, win a ring, play a season win a ring..

[Spider]

Actually, I made up the part about the friends for better effect.thought so ;D

You must have had a rough last 7 years then. Esp. the last 2. whoaaa. not realy

I have been on a 4 year party....they are all starting to blur together now though.
that explains alot ;D

[sonsofkraftybob]

@ sonsofkraftybob, does vladimir putin still have your superbowl ring?

There is a reason my avatar is from SB 38. Commie pinko pricks.

[shaftedelic]

Well this was the type of thread i lived for... until it degenerated. My prediction is that Belecheck will "go indy" with 5 wide/hurry up offence. I like the Denver D though. This season we were built to stop the "run and shoot." I have a feeling Dwill will be near full strenght, play great, and get at least one pick.

@ sonsofkraftybob, does vladimir putin still have your superbowl ring?


Never argue with a man who has the bomb..

[Sassy]

how sweet . you have friends ..Warms my heart ........ ;D ..With me it is football first , football second , Football 3 rd .All in that order
So how did you end up with almost six kids ;D

[Spider]

Did you see that there.. The running back just got small.. when you run in the middle you need to get small..
that about sums it up

[Spider]

So how did you end up with almost six kids ;D
had a dream i fell into a washing machine ..... month later wife is pregnant with triplets ...... ;D

[bendog]

It's a love hate relationship.

BTW, this thread deteriorated quickly.
yes, and thanks for you contribution.

[Sassy]

had a dream i fell into a washing machine ..... month later wife is pregnant with triplets ...... ;D
Hmmm....must have been after the SB Dream ;D:~ohyah!:

[sonsofkraftybob]

yes, and thanks for you contribution.

My contribution???

[Spider]

Hmmm....must have been after the SB Dream ;D:~ohyah!:
:giggle: ....ok I dont have an answer good job ;D

[bendog]

My contribution???
aside from asshole smack, there's been none.

[Sassy]

:giggle: ....ok I dont have an answer good job ;D
No answer? Are you feeling ok Spider? :giggle:

[sonsofkraftybob]

aside from a-hole smack, there's been none.

You must have me confused. Lets check the thread shall we?

[Natedogg]

There is a reason my avatar is from SB 38. Commie pinko pricks.

Remember when Kraft visited Putin, and Putin put the ring in his pocket during a phono op? At the time it was unclear if he ever gave it back. Do you know how it ended?

[Spider]

No answer? Are you feeling ok Spider? :giggle:
Still wrestling with the profound insight of if the pats score more points they will win ...... ;D

[Natedogg]

roflLOL

http://english.pravda.ru/main/18/88/350/16631_Putin.html

[sonsofkraftybob]

Remember when Kraft visited Putin, and Putin put the ring in his pocket during a phono op? At the time it was unclear if he ever gave it back. Do you know how it ended?

He let him keep it. I guess it was the proper thing to do. When people visit foriegn dignataries they bring them gifts...Putin thought it was a gift....Kraft didn't want to be seen as an Indian giver.

I'm sure he had another one made though.

[sonsofkraftybob]

aside from a-hole smack, there's been none.

Well i checked the whole thread and there was not one post of a-hole smack. Some lighthearted fun.....but no smack.

You will be sure to know when I throw smack. But I like this place....like a second home. I might even stay after the game...win or lose.

[shaftedelic]

Remember when Kraft visited Putin, and Putin put the ring in his pocket during a phono op? At the time it was unclear if he ever gave it back. Do you know how it ended?

Kraft came out publicly and said that he game him the ring.. He was getting tired of wearing all them anyways.

[Natedogg]

Kraft came out publicly and said that he game him the ring.. He was getting tired of wearing all them anyways.

well wasnt that nice of him.

[Tailgater]

Meaning no disrespect, I think the reason Den historically has done pretty good running at NE's 3-4 pretty much goes back to this.

That is true. Wilfork played a bad game in October. I can't remember who was playing NT when the Pats won in Denver in 2003. I know it wasn't Ted Washington since he was out that game, as was Seymour. Was it Jarvis Green?

If Wilfork plays the way he has recently, Nalen will have his hands full. He is tremendously strong, but was always too eager to get to the ball. If he reverts to his earlier performance, the Pats won't win.

[Natedogg]

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2005/06/30/kraft_cites_the_circular_joys_of_giving/
Kraft cites the circular joys of giving

Says ring for Putin came from heart

By Donovan Slack, Globe Staff | June 30, 2005
Ending something of a diplomatic mystery, New England Patriots owner Robert Kraft said yesterday that he was so taken by President Vladimir Putin's affection for his diamond-encrusted 2005 Super Bowl ring that he decided to give it to the Russian leader as a token of ''respect and admiration."
''Upon seeing the ring, President Putin, a great and knowledgeable sports fan, was clearly taken with its uniqueness," Kraft said in a statement. ''At that point, I decided to give him the ring."
During a press conference Saturday at Konstantinovsky Palace near St. Petersburg with other American corporate executives, Kraft showed Putin the 4.94-carat ring. Smiling, Putin tried it on, placed it in his pocket, and soon left.
Until late yesterday, it wasn't clear whether Kraft had intended for Putin to keep the prized piece of jewelry. The confusion remained on Tuesday, when Kraft was still traveling overseas and hadn't spoken to US media on the matter.
But finally Kraft, in the statement issued through a Patriots spokesman, said he had wanted Putin to have the ring.
''I have ancestors from Russia, so it added significance for me to know that something so cherished would reside at the Kremlin along with other special gifts given to Russian presidents," Kraft said. ''It was truly an act of serendipity and one that I am honored to have experienced. It touched me to see President Putin's reaction to the ring, and I felt, emotionally, that it was the right way to conclude an exceptional meeting."
The reception in Russia may not be so enthusiastic.
While there was a time when gifts to Russia's national leader ignited fierce curiosity among the masses, when people would line up for blocks to see an exhibition of the tokens received by Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin, there was considerably less excitement in Moscow yesterday as word spread that Putin had scored a Super Bowl ring.
''If he received a gift, so what?" said a business manager who gave only his first name, Sergei, as he headed home from work near a train station in southwestern Moscow. ''What's the big deal?"
A 34-year-old historian told the Globe she finds the whole thing ''curious."
The woman, who gave only her first name, Olga, for fear of getting in trouble for speaking publicly, said in an interview that gifts to Russian leaders usually are given in an official manner. A report in Kommersant, a Russian business newspaper, had described Kraft's handover as ''shy" and Putin's acceptance as somewhat covert.
''Maybe [the Patriots] wanted to enlist Putin as their fan," Olga said.
She doesn't believe that the ring will attract more fans to American football in Russia.
In New England, on the other hand, members of the Russian immigrant community hailed Kraft's generosity and said his gift will bolster loyalty among Russian members of Patriot Nation.
''It's good for the Russian community here," said Sergey Bologov, executive director of the Russian Community Association of Massachusetts.
Bologov, who left Russia in 1992, has annual Super Bowl bashes at his Marblehead home. He said he has met Kraft and his wife several times at charity events in the Boston area.
''They are very philanthropic," Bologov said. ''He can make another ring."
Under Kraft's ownership, the Patriots have won three of the past four Super Bowls. Each time, the championship ring, which the team helps design, has been glitzier than the last. This year's ring boasts 124 diamonds.
One specialist has said the cost of the ring makes it a highly unusual token to present a head of state. Walter C. Carrington, a Simmons College professor and former US ambassador to Senegal and Nigeria, said business executives have to be careful about giving high-priced gifts that might appear too much like bribes.
But, he said, Kraft probably doesn't have anything to worry about.
''As long as he's not scouting for Russian players," Carrington said, a little tongue in cheek, ''it should be all right."
Globe correspondent Anna Dolgov contributed to this report from Moscow. Keith Reed of the Globe staff contributed to this report from Boston. Donovan Slack can be reached at dslack@globe.com. http://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/File-Based_Image_Resource/dingbat_story_end_icon.gif
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© Copyright (http://www.boston.com/help/bostoncom_info/copyright) 2005 The New York Times Company

This ish is very hilarious to me.

[shaftedelic]

That is true. Wilfork played a bad game in October. I can't remember who was playing NT when the Pats won in Denver in 2003. I know it wasn't Ted Washington since he was out that game, as was Seymour. Was it Jarvis Green?

If Wilfork plays the way he has recently, Nalen will have his hands full. He is tremendously strong, but was always too eager to get to the ball. If he reverts to his earlier performance, the Pats won't win.


I think it was Seymour.. but it could have been Troy Brown.

[emoney_33]

First I want to comment on that picture and the bootleg...

If you notice Mike Vrabel (#50) is playing OLB at the time, meaning Chad Brown and Monty Beisel are playing inside LB. With the new faces on the defense due to injuries, retirement etc... The patriots coaching staff had to go very vanilla because the players were still trying to learn their very complicated defensive system. Brown and Beisel performed pretty horribly early in the year and this probably led to Vrabel not staying at home and going to help with the run. With Bruschi/Vrabel in the middle and Colvin/Mcginest on the outside it's going to be a ton harder to get the patriots LB's to make a mental error.

People want to talk about the running backs we have faced and disregard every other factor. Well just looking at the RB's we faced, take a look at the team's rushing performances the week before and after they faced us... big big difference, so clearly it wasnt just the team. Since they horribly underperformed against us. Even look at the bills, who rushed for over 4 ypc against the broncos the week after getting completly shut down by the pats...


So many things have changed since we last played and looking at overall stats are absolutely misleading. Yes overall we are ranked horribly against the pass. However if you look at opponents completion % against us, we are ranked extremely high. What does this tell you? Well absolutely nothing alone, but I hypothesize that the pats yardage total is so horrible because early on we had 0 pass rush and guys like Starks (playing with injury) were giving up HUGE plays at least 3-5 times a game. Also go back to the first time we played you this year and watch each one of those big passes, tell me which patriot cb is trailing their man? #23 Duane Starks. #27 Ellis Hobbs has played head and heels above what Starks did the first half of the year.

Then to read things like "no one stops the broncos run" etc...

Well no one shuts out TB... TB didn't allow a first posession (i think it was first possession) TD all year until they play the pats... SO it doesnt' really matter what other teams have done in the past, even this year against the Broncos. And yes the patriots you faced the last time classify as a different team.


If the Broncos can gain a lot of yards on the ground I will be absolutely stunned, because the front 7 along with the defensive mastermind of Belichick/Mangini is one helluva run stopping force.

The broncos pass rush has been pretty bad, judging by their sacks per opportunities and if you give Brady time to throw I don't care who you have in your secondary, he will find open receivers.


And finally, our secondary does not suck. Is it a dominant secondary with dominant shut down corners? NO. But they are talented enough and definitely well coached enough to hang in there with the best of them. Big receivers don't scare the corners because they are coached to use their head in those situations, the receiver HAS to bring the ball back to his body, and usually when he does, Hobbs' (and lately moreso with Samuel as well) hand is there to knock the ball away. Hawkins has picked up the system extremely fast and has impressed belichick as well as stabilized things back there from the revolving door that was the pats SS before he was signed. Eugene Wilson is an intelligent, hard hitting converted corner and has played more like himself ever since Hawkins has been in the lineup and there hasn't been much miscommunication as there was in the past.


I am not worried about the pats passing offense nor the pats rushing defense. The pats rushing offense is very suspect and you can never tell what's gonna happen with that, but I definitely do not expect a lot of yards rushing in denver. Our passing defense has been good lately, though they usually play loose coverage allowing short comeback routes to be completed almost at will, once in a while they will jump the route and make a play. But like most pass defenses, it all starts with a pass rush, and as of late the pats pass rush has been dominant but the Broncos will be a much better test for them, with the best passing offense of any team we have played in quite some time.

This will be a dogfight, and one helluva great game on Saturday. Hopefully both teams come away with no injuries.

[Hotrod]

First I want to comment on that picture and the bootleg...

If you notice Mike Vrabel (#50) is playing OLB at the time, meaning Chad Brown and Monty Beisel are playing inside LB. With the new faces on the defense due to injuries, retirement etc... The patriots coaching staff had to go very vanilla because the players were still trying to learn their very complicated defensive system. Brown and Beisel performed pretty horribly early in the year and this probably led to Vrabel not staying at home and going to help with the run. With Bruschi/Vrabel in the middle and Colvin/Mcginest on the outside it's going to be a ton harder to get the patriots LB's to make a mental error.

People want to talk about the running backs we have faced and disregard every other factor. Well just looking at the RB's we faced, take a look at the team's rushing performances the week before and after they faced us... big big difference, so clearly it wasnt just the team. Since they horribly underperformed against us. Even look at the bills, who rushed for over 4 ypc against the broncos the week after getting completly shut down by the pats...


So many things have changed since we last played and looking at overall stats are absolutely misleading. Yes overall we are ranked horribly against the pass. However if you look at opponents completion % against us, we are ranked extremely high. What does this tell you? Well absolutely nothing alone, but I hypothesize that the pats yardage total is so horrible because early on we had 0 pass rush and guys like Starks (playing with injury) were giving up HUGE plays at least 3-5 times a game. Also go back to the first time we played you this year and watch each one of those big passes, tell me which patriot cb is trailing their man? #23 Duane Starks. #27 Ellis Hobbs has played head and heels above what Starks did the first half of the year.

Then to read things like "no one stops the broncos run" etc...

Well no one shuts out TB... TB didn't allow a first posession (i think it was first possession) TD all year until they play the pats... SO it doesnt' really matter what other teams have done in the past, even this year against the Broncos. And yes the patriots you faced the last time classify as a different team.


If the Broncos can gain a lot of yards on the ground I will be absolutely stunned, because the front 7 along with the defensive mastermind of Belichick/Mangini is one helluva run stopping force.

The broncos pass rush has been pretty bad, judging by their sacks per opportunities and if you give Brady time to throw I don't care who you have in your secondary, he will find open receivers.


And finally, our secondary does not suck. Is it a dominant secondary with dominant shut down corners? NO. But they are talented enough and definitely well coached enough to hang in there with the best of them. Big receivers don't scare the corners because they are coached to use their head in those situations, the receiver HAS to bring the ball back to his body, and usually when he does, Hobbs' (and lately moreso with Samuel as well) hand is there to knock the ball away. Hawkins has picked up the system extremely fast and has impressed belichick as well as stabilized things back there from the revolving door that was the pats SS before he was signed. Eugene Wilson is an intelligent, hard hitting converted corner and has played more like himself ever since Hawkins has been in the lineup and there hasn't been much miscommunication as there was in the past.


I am not worried about the pats passing offense nor the pats rushing defense. The pats rushing offense is very suspect and you can never tell what's gonna happen with that, but I definitely do not expect a lot of yards rushing in denver. Our passing defense has been good lately, though they usually play loose coverage allowing short comeback routes to be completed almost at will, once in a while they will jump the route and make a play. But like most pass defenses, it all starts with a pass rush, and as of late the pats pass rush has been dominant but the Broncos will be a much better test for them, with the best passing offense of any team we have played in quite some time.

This will be a dogfight, and one helluva great game on Saturday. Hopefully both teams come away with no injuries.

Thats a great first post.

I will say there are 3 things you need to understand which you dont appear to grasp in this post

1. You will pay taxes
2. You will pass away someday
3. Denver Will run the ball for 150+ on Saturday.

[elsid13]

Thats a great first post.

I will say there are 3 things you need to understand which you dont appear to grasp in this post

1. You will pay taxes
2. You will pass away someday
3. Denver Will run the ball for 150+ on Saturday.


Forgot lesson #4 Never get into land war in South Asia.

[Hotrod]

Forgot lesson #4 Never get into land war in South Asia.

While thats never a good idea I would rather do that then step on Tedys cape.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So many things have changed since we last played and looking at overall stats are absolutely misleading. Yes overall we are ranked horribly against the pass. However if you look at opponents completion % against us, we are ranked extremely high.
Yes you are...right behind Denver...unfortunately that is the ONLY thing the Patsies pass defense ranks highly in...I have to keep posting this I guess:

Attempts per game: 20th
Yards per game: 31st
Yards per completion: 32nd
Pass Completion percentage: 4th
TD passes: 28th
Interceptions: 28th
Sacks: 23rd
1st downs by pass: 22nd
Completions over 20 yards: 31st
Completions over 40 yards: 31st

Does it not register with you that giving up the highest yards per catch figure in the NFL, and being next to dead last in surrendering passes over both 20 and 40 yards as well as total yards per game, plus near the bottom in TD's yielded and INT's is a problem? The reason you are giving up such a low percentage of completions is obvious...teams are choosing to throw low percentage deep passes against you with regularity. Of course you're going to rank highly in completion percentage if the opposing QB is heaving it downfield 50 yards as often as he can...duh.
What does this tell you? Well absolutely nothing alone, but I hypothesize that the pats yardage total is so horrible because early on we had 0 pass rush and guys like Starks (playing with injury) were giving up HUGE plays at least 3-5 times a game. Also go back to the first time we played you this year and watch each one of those big passes, tell me which patriot cb is trailing their man? #23 Duane Starks. #27 Ellis Hobbs has played head and heels above what Starks did the first half of the year.
Actually it tell ME quite a bit...though you seem to have missed it. The reason your yardage totals are so horrible is not because you've suddenly found a missing pass rush. You finished the year with a huge rush in sacks that managed to get you all the way to 28, which is 5 more than we have...but still nothing to brag about...so let's not pretend that padding the stats against gimpy Byron Leftwhich, the sorry Jets (3rd worst in the NFL in sacks surrendered), or teams like Buffalo, NO or the Bucs in games where they had to pass...is something to be proud of. You play in the worst division in football for decent QB's...Gus Frerotte, Brooks Bolinger and JP Losman...WOW! Could any of those guys start on any AFC West team? I doubt it. I'm not sure any of them could be our backup. Wonder how the Patsies would have fared against the AFC West with offenses like KC and the Chargers plus playing Denver twice?
The broncos pass rush has been pretty bad, judging by their sacks per opportunities and if you give Brady time to throw I don't care who you have in your secondary, he will find open receivers.
This is something you have to understand from watching the games instead of looking at JUST stats...because you just finished talking up your pass D based on some perceived ability to now sack the QB...and I showed you where it came from...yet you don't bother to look behind the scenes at our stats but just come up with ""the broncos pass rush has been pretty bad judging by their sacks per opportunities...". Do you understand that we've pressured the QB well? Teams throw a lot of quick routes with 3 step drops on us and do things to avoid taking a sack. It's not alway sacks...pressures, knockdowns, and don't forget INT's...though you have very few we are #6 in creating them...partly as a result of getting a pass rush and partly because Champ & Co have been great this year.
And finally, our secondary does not suck. Is it a dominant secondary with dominant shut down corners? NO. But they are talented enough and definitely well coached enough to hang in there with the best of them.
Well if by "hanging in there with the best of them", you mean ranking near the bottom of the NFL in virtually every catagory there is except completion percentage, which I've already pointed out is because teams are licking their chops over the possibility of the long ball...well congratulations. You have lower standards than I'd have thought somebody watching a 3 time Superbowl champion would have developed. The fact is your secondary DOES suck.

Finally...Duane Starks or no Duane Starks...Rod Smith is a Patsie killer. He's been torching you guys for years and there's nothing he hasn't seen. Get ready to watch him do it again...:chairhit:

[emoney_33]

footsteps.... wow... that's all i have to say... WOW.


Again take stats alone and they mean absolutely NOTHING.

If i told you i threw a ball from 50 feet away to hit a mark 6" in radius 100 times and only hit once then a week later I threw a ball from 30 feet away to hit a mark with a radius of 2 feet, and i threw it 100 times hitting 98 times... you would say im a bad thrower with poor aim and I did better the 2nd time because the conditions were easier. Of course looking deeper i could tell you i was blind folded and throwing backwards the first week, would that still tell you I have bad aim?

We rank at the bottom in pass defense yes, does that mean our secondary is horrible? That's the conclusion YOU draw, is it fact? NO. The facts are the stats they have, why the stats are that way is your opinion... which IMO is worthless since you have watched a total of maybe 1 patriot game all year.


When our pass defense sucked, BAD qb's were torching us. Now that we absolutely dominated against bad qbs, it's the bad team. Well if that were the case they wouldn't have torched us earlier in the year. So many factors have changed from when we were allowing massive yardage vs. now, and NOT just the quality of teams faced. Of course I could draw the same conclusion about your pitiful secondary being 29th in pass yards allowed. I can ignore everything, and just draw that conclusion because I have not watched all Denver games so I'll just say their secondary sucks and they have absolutely ZERO pass rush.



:yawn: talking about our division again and the lack of opponents we faced down the stretch, let me ask you something? If the bills are so horrible why did you allow them to rush for over 4 yards per carry the WEEK AFTER we absolutely destroyed their run game, with mcgahee getting what 8 yards 1.2ypc? Can't wait for the excuses on this one.


And also since our success late in the year is 100% due to bad teams then tell me exactly why these same teams played SIGNIFICANTLY better the week before AND the week after they faced us? THis excuse should be fun as well.



The broncos pass rush... Wait a minute you want me to look deeper into it rather than just the stats? Ok so you take the stats and say that's because we suck and we've only improved by playing bad teams... you look no deeper than that and you think that you showed me why the pats have improved? Damn! Ignorance is bliss. lol



Now let me give you SOME FACTS... you know some real facts...


The first half of the year, when the team was allowing massive yardage, there were so many differences compared to now. Screw the numbers and just listen for a few here...


Monty Bisel and Chad Brown, new to the system, were starting at inside linebacker. Starks was starting CB getting torched, playing with injury. When Rodney went down, there were about 7 or 8 different starters at SS, most new to the system, and a new one each week. Colvin, in his 2nd year back from the hip injury was not at full speed, noticeably having trouble against the run and noticeably not as explosive as he has been in the past. Ty Warren and Willie Mcginest were playing solid the whole year, check the stats, no one runs their side all year. Seymour got hurt and missed a bunch of games. Wilfork was struggling. Wilson was having problems at FS because there was a new SS each week and there was tons of miscommunication. The coaches had no confidence in the defense's ability as a whole to even get the basics right (so many new to the system, miscomunication etc..) so they called a very vanilla gameplan. no moving on the line, not much blitzing, not much of anything at all.

THEN.....

Bruschi comes back, Vrabel moves inside, Colvin gains his step, Wilfork moves a little off the line and significantly improves, seymour comes back, Hawkins solidifies SS, Starks goes on IR, Hobbs takes over and plays terrific, Coaches gain confidence in defense and opens up gameplan, going back to their disguising ways.



So you go ahead and look at only opponents faced and think that is taking a "deeper" look if you want. Anyone who has watched the pats all year, knows the real reasons for their recent success. Most in the boston media still think the secondary is suspect because we allow many short yardage pass completions (Samuel plays very loose, usually 8 yards off his man presnap). One thing is for sure our depth in the secondary is extremely thin and we have to use Troy Brown in nickel or dime situations.


I still don't understand why, if your pass rush is so good, teams are still not getting sacks. Only against the Broncos do they release quickly and throw short routes? And most every other team they will try to go long and wait to get sacked? The broncos have had the most pass attempts against in the NFL i believe, giving them the most opportunities for sacks yet they can't get them and your excuse is beacuse teams are throwing short on them and getting the ball off quicker than they do against other teams?



Anywho, maybe that's right and for some reason every team just wants to go short on Denver and long or medium on everyone else, I can't claim to know because I haven't watched all of Denver's games. Just seems odd to me.


Now you can sit back and enjoy the overall season stats without looking at the patriots personnell etc... during that time period but if you think a starting defense consisting of:

Green
Wilfork
Warren
Vrabel
Beisel
Brown
Mcginest
Starks
?whoever?
Wilson
Samuel

we can even discount the facts that Wilfork was underperforming, Colvin wasn't at full speed and the effect of a revloving door at SS had on the secondary. And in doing so you still think the above defense is even close to the following:

Seymour
Wilfork
Warren
Colvin
Bruschi
Vrabel
Mcginest
Hobbs
Hawkins
Wilson
Samuel



If you trully think that the 1st defense in a base 3-4 scheme (with completly vanilla gameplans) is anything comparable to the 2nd defense in a base 3-4 scheme (with an opened more complex disguising defensive gameplan) well then I must question your football IQ.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The FACTS are very simple. New England, like ALL NFL TEAMS has suffered some injuries...so what?...case in point...Denver started a rookie for Champ Bailey in the 2nd half against the Pats last time...but the bottom line is the Patsies won a horrible division with quarterbacks who don't rate as anything more than backups and their secondary still looked like crap in spite of them getting six games right off the bat against the 3 stooges...toss in luminaries like Phil Simms little boy, gimpy Byron Leftwhich, Aaron Brooks...even Atlanta's backup Matt Schaub roasted the Patsies and looked like Joe Willie Namath. Finishing at the bottom of the barrel against this collection of rag tag has beens, never weres and never will be's should shame and embarass the Patsie fans. The Texas Longhorns could have done just as well.

You didn't just suck. You sucked against the worst QB's in the league.

[emoney_33]

:yawn:





Now you can sit back and enjoy the overall season stats without looking at the patriots personnell etc... during that time period but if you think a starting defense consisting of:

Green
Wilfork
Warren
Vrabel
Beisel
Brown
Mcginest
Starks
?whoever?
Wilson
Samuel

we can even discount the facts that Wilfork was underperforming, Colvin wasn't at full speed and the effect of a revloving door at SS had on the secondary. And in doing so you still think the above defense is even close to the following:

Seymour
Wilfork
Warren
Colvin
Bruschi
Vrabel
Mcginest
Hobbs
Hawkins
Wilson
Samuel



If you trully think that the 1st defense in a base 3-4 scheme (with completly vanilla gameplans) is anything comparable to the 2nd defense in a base 3-4 scheme (with an opened more complex disguising defensive gameplan) well then I must question your football IQ.


you'll see the 2nd defense on Saturday, not the 1st one.... but we suck, yea yea yea.

[footstepsfrom#27]

:yawn:







you'll see the 2nd defense on Saturday, not the 1st one.... but we suck, yea yea yea.
Rod Smith...:holyguac! :holyguac! :holyguac! :holyguac! :holyguac!

[BroncoFanDoug]

That's why it's a 3 point spread..Sorry but vegas does not give money away

Idiot. Vegas doesn't try to set their line by what they think will happen in the game - they try to set their line by what number will put 1/2 the bettors on each side. That way they are assured of taking exactly their cut no matter what the score is.

[Hulamau]

The Pat's don't make the same mistake twice. I'm sure they reviewed that game film over and over. I guarantee it, no naked bootleg this time.


WHAT A LAUGH!! As if Belicheck and the PAts D didnt know in the Oct game that Plummer would do naked boots ALL day long as every other team in the league knows and still cant stop!!

Get use to it. Sometimes Plummer stutter steps that counter direction boot and goes with the blockers instead of reversiong the field as shown in the photo and they set the D up perfectly for these kind of shots you see above, to keep your D off balance. If you station a DE or LB on each side to spy on Plummer he'll run two or three steps toward the DE stop, back up 3 steps drawing teh DE in and hit the TE or FB just behind your front 7 trying to corral Plummer with your safeties and DBs tangled up downfield with our WR, all of whom can and do block.

I'd be willing to be my house that we'll see quite of few of those 'snapshots' manana!

Defensing that play is a lot easier said than done ... as your guys learned in Ocotber and will get a repeat dose of manana.

[elsid13]

Funny thing on NFL Match UP, the host Sal Whateverhisnane actually said that John Lynch could cover Ben Watson, he was to fast. Hodge looked at him and said, the Bronco LBs are the fastest in the league and Gold could cover him. What the F'd, Denver cover Gonzo and Gates stop them cold and Denver cannot cover 2nd year player who hasn't done anything. What the F

[errand]

Sorry. He has 5 rings.

3 as a HC with the Pats, 2 w/ the Giants as DC.

I was answering SOB's question if Mike Shanahan had 5 rings, rookie....

We all know Belichick's head went right up Parcell's ass whenever he stopped suddenly.

[errand]

So how did you end up with almost six kids ;D

..well, there is halftime ya know.

[trench]

Defensing that play is a lot easier said than done ...during practice this week, Doug Flutie=Jake Plummer...

[errand]

Kraft came out publicly and said that he game him the ring.. He was getting tired of wearing all them anyways.

Shannon Sharpe gave his ring to his brother Sterling...Mike Shanahan and Pat Bowlen got Sharpe another one.

Al Davis checked into a hotel one day, the desk clerk asked for ID when registering his room....Al just showed him his SBXI ring.

[errand]

Monty Bisel and Chad Brown, new to the system, were starting at inside linebacker. Starks was starting CB getting torched, playing with injury. When Rodney went down, there were about 7 or 8 different starters at SS, most new to the system, and a new one each week.


If you trully think that the 1st defense in a base 3-4 scheme (with completly vanilla gameplans) is anything comparable to the 2nd defense in a base 3-4 scheme (with an opened more complex disguising defensive gameplan) well then I must question your football IQ.

Your excuse that you had guys new to a system would wash....but it doesn't explain how we are the NFL's most improved team in causing turnovers despite having a buch of rookies in our secondary like Paymah, Williams, and Foxworth.

Are you saying rookies in Denver can grasp a defensive scheme easier than veteran players in NE? Does that means our rookiess are smarter than your vets...or are your vets dumber than our rookies? My God, Biesel played for KC, which means he played us twice a year...he of all people should have been able to give Bill some tips on how to stop us.

As for your other excuse of an undermanned d playing a "vanilla" scheme...you have to consider that your team was treading water when you came to Denver in week six...

Seems to me your alleged genius of a head coach wouldn't have risked falling behind in the division by playing vanilla against arguably one of the NFL's top strategists in Mike Shanahan...that is unless he knew his divisional foes were a weak bunch and knew he'd breeze right on thru in the 2nd half. Well, perhaps he did...afterall he's a genius right?

[yavoon]

He let him keep it. I guess it was the proper thing to do. When people visit foriegn dignataries they bring them gifts...Putin thought it was a gift....Kraft didn't want to be seen as an Indian giver.

I'm sure he had another one made though.

dirty commies often take things w/o asking. he probably thot he was repatriating the thing.