ESPN.com Chat on Patriots vs. Broncos [Archive] - The Orange Mane

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MajikMan7

01-09-2006, 08:12 AM

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=10406

KouPilot

01-09-2006, 09:16 AM

I just thought I'd point out that Jeremy Green of scouts Inc. Picked us over the pats and the pats fans are now playing the disrespect card.

OrangeShadow

01-09-2006, 09:20 AM

im so sick of any nfl team playing the disrespect card.

Hercules Rockefeller

01-09-2006, 09:23 AM

Pats fans (and apparently Brady) have got to have the weakest egos if they claim disrepect if everyone's mouths are not firmly attached to the Pats' nuts.

They're on the road against a team that beat them earlier this year when the score was closer than the game. Deal with it.

ND Bronco Fan

01-09-2006, 09:27 AM

I love disrespect...........keep on picking the Pats, nothing i like more than a pissed off Al Wilson. Keep pouring fuel on the Broncos fire by counting them out, it can do nothing but motivate them.

BroncoFanDoug

01-09-2006, 09:30 AM

I just thought I'd point out that Jeremy Green of scouts Inc. Picked us over the pats and the pats fans are now playing the disrespect card.

Soooo, by that logic, every time anyone picks one team over the other, they are by definition disrepecting the other team?!

KouPilot

01-09-2006, 09:36 AM

It was interesting seeing the pats fans downright calling jeremy stupid. He kept bringing up great arguments though. Explaining that, yes, the Pats have been good against the run of late but its been on one dimensional teams. Oh and no one on the east coast seems to be able to spell Plummer. I saw tons of plumber comments.

KouPilot

01-09-2006, 09:38 AM

Jeremy Green: (12:01 PM ET ) Hey everyone, lets get started with this AFC Divisional rematch matchup.

Scott, Santa Clara CA: At 13-3 with the division crown and a home playoff game, and already a previous victory over the patriots, why is no one even giving them a chance against Tom Brady and the patriots?

Jeremy Green: (12:03 PM ET ) The Broncos are one of the most disrespected 13-3 teams in recent memory. I think the big reason people are not giving them a chance is they think Belichick will out-coach Shanhan this week.

G - Denver, CO: Will Jake continue his mistake free play against the Pats?

Jeremy Green: (12:04 PM ET ) Yes. He has been under control all season. To stay mistake free they must be able to run the ball though. I think they will be able to do that with Bell this week. Bell's ability to turn the corner should cause problems for a Patriot defense that is more physical than fast.

Daniel (Greenville, NC): Do you think the Broncos pass rush will put a lot of pressure on New England's passing game?

Jeremy Green: (12:05 PM ET ) No, they have not been able to generate a consistent rush all season. I don't think they need one though because they are excellent in the back end. They have the best starting LB group in the NFL. Those guys will be able to drop and take away some of their underneath routes. I like the corners led by Bailey. I think they will cause problems for the Pats pass offense.

Randall (Canterbury, CT): What do you think the Patriots can do to rattle Plumber into being his old, self-destructive self and not the consistantly good quaterback hes been most of the year (especially against the Pats earlier this season)?

Jeremy Green: (12:06 PM ET ) They will need to bring pressure off the edge like they did last week with McGinest and Colvin. Plummer likes to get outside the pocket, so an outside rush will force him to step into the pocket where he is not as comfortable.

Chuck (Kansas City): Jeremy - who you have winning this game and why?

Jeremy Green: (12:08 PM ET ) Denver gets very little respect and I think they will play with a bit of a chip on their shoulder this week I am taking Denver. I think they will be able to run the ball with Tatum Bell this week. That will open up Plummer and the passing game. I still have concerns with the Pats secondary and I think the vertical abilities of Smith and Lelie will give the Pats secondary problems.

David (Providence R.I.): The Patriots match up with the Broncos favors the Pats .In the first game this year there was no Dillon,Seymore,Brusci,Faulk and we had players like D.Starks at corner .The improved Pats run defense will force the broncos to go to the air and put the pressure on Plummber ,Can he handle doing what they haven't asked him to do all year....?

Jeremy Green: (12:10 PM ET ) Yes, because the Pats secondary is not very good. Sure they played well last week, but Jacksonville has as marginal, unsophisticated pass offense and this played right into the Pats hands. This is why they stumbled all over themselves vs. Miami so they could get the Jags who they matched up very well against.

Ian (Bangor, ME): Will the Pats' running game be able to step it up and take some pressure off Brady, or will he have to carry the offense?

Jeremy Green: (12:11 PM ET ) I think it will be Brady in the shotgun throwing a lot this week. To establish their run though, they need to get Ben Watson involved early down the middle of the field. If he can make some plays down the middle it will prevent John lynch from crowding the LOS and should open their run game a little bit.

Jordan (Rochester, NY): What is the key thing that Denver needs to do in order to win this football game?

Jeremy Green: (12:13 PM ET ) Something that nobody has done in the past 4-6 weeks - run the ball effectively early. This will open up their play action passing game and should result in some big plays down the field to Rod Smith.

tjed (Hartford): Jeremy, you're kidding me! You are that dumb to thing the Patriots gave up the game against Miami to play Jacksonville! You're an IDIOT!

Jeremy Green: (12:14 PM ET ) No I don;t think so. Everyone inculding Cincinnati tried to throw up on themselves to get to Jacksonville in the first round... and for good reason - they played awful on Saturday night.

mike (quincy, ma): Do you think Daniel Graham will play a big role in this game? He is a much better blocker than Watson

Jeremy Green: (12:15 PM ET ) I think Watson will play a bigger role, especially in the passing game. He needs to have a big game to keep those Denver safeties from loading up in the box to take Dillon away.

Bill (Boston): You can throw out their last meeting, but do the Patriots have the personnel in order to clog up them middle and also keep Plummer in the pocket?

Jeremy Green: (12:16 PM ET ) Yes, they do and they need to do that. THey have to very good rush LB's in McGinest and Colvin that can get up the field. ROT George Foster will be in the spotlight more than anyone on the line this week after the game McGinest had last week.

greg(titletown): Do you think that Plummer has the ability to exploit Hobbs and Samuel? I just don't see it. I mean, were the Patriots corners any better last year?

Jeremy Green: (12:18 PM ET ) Jacksonville has bigger receivers that run shorter to intermeidate routes. I think where the Pats corners can get in trouble is when Denver goes vertical and Smith and even Lelie (though he is inconsistent) have enough speed to put a lot of pressure on the Pats secondary. Keep in mind also, them getting verticval will open up the underneath for Putzier who is a solid pass catching TE.

Derek (NORESPECTSVILLE): Give this team credit. I will play the no respect card AGAIN.....just when you think the Pats are forced in a corner, they will surprise. You and every other Pats hater will see come Saturday night. I hope every scribe picks against them that just the motivation they need. Why don't you just say that Corey Dillon sucks so he can go off Saturday night......

Jeremy Green: (12:19 PM ET ) First of all I don't hate any team. If I pick Denver why do I have to be a Pat hater?

Jason (boston): Do you think this will be a low scoring defense controlled game or will the offenses prevail?

Jeremy Green: (12:21 PM ET ) I see an offensive game. I think New England is going to struggle on defense because of the versatility of the Denver offense. This will force New England to try to turn this game into a shootout.

mike (holyoke): how has jake done in past playoffs?

Jeremy Green: (12:22 PM ET ) Not very well, but the same could be said - how has Jake done in the regualr season? He has had his best NFL season by far and I expect that he will continue on that track.

Barnes (Denver): Not to get in a debate, but over 80% of all sports sites I have been to have picked the Pats? Jeremy besides the Pats being Defending Champs, why are they getting all of the "experts" backing from the media?

Jeremy Green: (12:23 PM ET ) Because of Belichick and I will give him his due. There is no coach in the NFL I would rather have on the sidelines in a week to week scenario like the playoffs. He is exxcellent at making adjustments from week to week and during the course of the game.

Joey (Denver): Jeremy, how big a factor do you think Lelie will be? With focus on Smith, I believe he'll be crucial. He has been much more involved in the intermediate passing game of late and more of an option on routes, it's made a difference late in the year. Do you see Lelie as a big factor?

Jeremy Green: (12:25 PM ET ) I think he is the "X" factor for the Denver offense. New England will focus the majority of their attention on the run game and Smith. This should give Lelie some 1x1 opportunities this week where he can use his size and speed to play a key role.

John (Boston): Do the Broncos have enough depth at corner to cover Branch, Givens, Brown, Johnson, Davis, Dwight, and Watson? I don't think any 'backer can cover their TE's, and corners can't match up against their size. With no pass rush and the Pats receiving depth, won't this be a big advantage?

Jeremy Green: (12:28 PM ET ) Denver has some good players at Corner but they are young. The obviously have Champ, but Williams and Foxworth have had excellent seasons. John, I normally agree with you but I have to disagree with their LB's. Denver has the most athletic LB group in the NFL with Wilson, Williams and Gold. Williams and Gold especially are capable of covering any TE on the Pats roster.

Mike (Brookline): How can you not pick the Pats in this one? The last time these two teams played, Denver was playing the Patriots' 2nd string Defense. Teams CANNOT run on the Pats anymore so it will be up to Jake the Snake to win it...which I think plays right into the Pats' hands...

Jeremy Green: (12:30 PM ET ) No, one dimensional teams could not run vs. the Pats down the stretch - Jets, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, Jets again, Miami and Jacksonville. All teams with sub-par passing attacks so they were able to load up on the run. Denver will be the most versatile team they have played since Kansas City way back in Week 12.

Jeremy Green: (12:32 PM ET ) I am out of here. I an staying with Denver. The Pats have not been tested since the Chiefs game and they will be tested this week. Denver's offense will carry the day and move on.

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Hercules Rockefeller

01-09-2006, 09:43 AM

What a bunch of whiners

Old Dude

01-09-2006, 10:37 AM

I thought Green was making a lot of sense until the very end, when he called Kansas City "versatile."

brncs_fan

01-09-2006, 10:46 AM

I thought Green was making a lot of sense until the very end, when he called Kansas City "versatile."
LOL

epicSocialism4tw

01-09-2006, 01:34 PM

I thought Green was making a lot of sense until the very end, when he called Kansas City "versatile."

Nah...they're not versatile...they are only the second best offense in the league behind the Colts. When they got all of their horses back, they were virtually unstoppable on offense.

Forget San Diego, KC was the best team not to make the playoffs. Their offense was brilliant. They had a nice level of dominance on that side of the ball. It's too bad their defense couldnt hang (not for us Bronco fans though!).

bloodsunday

01-09-2006, 01:38 PM

Forget San Diego, KC was the best team not to make the playoffs. There offense was brilliant. They had a nice level of dominance on that side of the ball. It's too bad their defense couldnt hang (not for us Bronco fans though!).
Especially at home. Name a team that would have wanted to go to Arrowhead (even with their willingness to blow it). I think Green's point was right on. Pats fans think its as simple as stopping the run, but there is more to our offense than that which makes us very different than any team they have faced in their "improvement" streak.

You are starting to see some real arrogance out of Pats fans... they are ripe to go down.

epicSocialism4tw

01-09-2006, 01:44 PM

Especially at home. Name a team that would have wanted to go to Arrowhead (even with their willingness to blow it). I think Green's point was right on. Pats fans think its as simple as stopping the run, but there is more to our offense than that which makes us very different than any team they have faced in their "improvement" streak.

You are starting to see some real arrogance out of Pats fans... they are ripe to go down.

The scary thing was that KC's offense was more prolific with LJ than with Priest. They were "scary" good. The hype machine passed them by in the wake of the inconsistent and superfluously overrated Chargers.

The nice thing about the game this weekend is that a Denver defeat of the defending champs would give the Broncos a massive wave of momentum heading into Indy. I like our chances. The Pats showed throughout the season that their defense is willing to swing the door open for the big play, and the big play is what Denver does best.

Rock Chalk

01-09-2006, 01:47 PM

Mike (Brookline): How can you not pick the Pats in this one? The last time these two teams played, Denver was playing the Patriots' 2nd string Defense. Teams CANNOT run on the Pats anymore so it will be up to Jake the Snake to win it...which I think plays right into the Pats' hands...
I love it when fans think this.

TheChamp24

01-09-2006, 01:59 PM

Didn't fans of other teams say we couldn't run on them, or that Jake will toss up a couple picks that will win this game for them? Its the same thing like every week, and the opposite holds true every week.

epicSocialism4tw

01-09-2006, 02:00 PM

I love it when fans think this.

It seems to happen every weekend, doesnt it?

Here's the logic (or lack thereof):

AVG FAN: Denver has a decent statistical look on paper regarding their run game, but ESPN doesnt say much about it, and I havent heard much about it...Denver also uses the RBBC and doesnt really have a big name guy back there...the (insert team here)'s run defense looked really good against the (insert teams with nowhere near the run game of Denver here)'s, so we're really gonna shut them down in their own building in spite of the rabid playoff starved fans.

It's time for them to become educated. Who has the must underappreciated offensive line in football? Yes. It's Denver.

Ratboy

01-09-2006, 02:04 PM

God, I hate the Patriots and their fans.

epicSocialism4tw

01-09-2006, 02:09 PM

God, I hate the Patriots and their fans.

Well, it will be nice to watch them go down in flames on Saturday.

sledgehammer

01-09-2006, 02:20 PM

KC was the best team not to make the playoffs.

That's explains why Carl Peterson wants the playoff field to be expanded.

elsid13

01-09-2006, 02:41 PM

Wow, provening once again that ESPN's chat/message board are used by mostly minors. They whined like a bunch of 5 year olds.

bloodsunday

01-10-2006, 07:32 AM

I love it when fans think this. Yeah check out the offenses they played. Some of those offenses are okay at running the ball, but we are the best in the league and we gashed them for almost 200 early this year. It could have been 300 had we played hard the entire game. I don't care how many players they brought back. We have improve as well. Our passing game particularly improved in the second half and that adds to our "versatility".

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 07:58 AM

Yeah check out the offenses they played. Some of those offenses are okay at running the ball, but we are the best in the league and we gashed them for almost 200 early this year. It could have been 300 had we played hard the entire game. I don't care how many players they brought back. We have improve as well. Our passing game particularly improved in the second half and that adds to our "versatility".

Actually, Atlanta is the best in the league at rushing.

While I don't expect the Pats to hold Denver under 100 yards rushing, I also don't expect to see your team have the same success they did running it in the earlier game. Seymour is back and the linebackers are playing much better, more like they did last year.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 08:04 AM

Actually, Atlanta is the best in the league at rushing.

While I don't expect the Pats to hold Denver under 100 yards rushing, I also don't expect to see your team have the same success they did running it in the earlier game. Seymour is back and the linebackers are playing much better, more like they did last year.

who have you played in the latter part of the year on the road that has a good running game?

OrangeShadow

01-10-2006, 08:09 AM

who have you played in the latter part of the year on the road that has a good running game?

Its no so much teams not having a good running game its teams not having a passing game

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 08:13 AM

Its no so much teams not having a good running game its teams not having a passing game

and if the media and Pats fans think that the Broncos don't have a passing game, they are going to be sorely mistaken

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 08:20 AM

who have you played in the latter part of the year on the road that has a good running game?

I'll grant you they didn't play anyone with a really good running game. But they completely shut down every team they played. Going all the way back to the just after the Indy game here's what they did:

MIA - 77 yards
NO - 87 yards
KC - 112 yards (3.0 ypc)
Jets - 41 yards
BUF - 14 yards
TB - 30 yards
Jets - 40 yards
MIA - 148 yards (2nd string played)
JAX - 87 yards

Throw out the last Miami game since the starters didn't play. Only one other team (KC) broke 100 yards but they only rushed for 3.0 ypc in that game. Pats lost that game on 3 passes that hit a receiver in the hands and was then intercepted.

Again, I know none of those teams other than KC has as good a running game as Denver. However, they still completely shut these teams down. You can only play who's on the schedule and they did what they needed to do against that competition.

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 08:21 AM

I've been on the Pats board a bit, and they are like every other NFL team's fans in that they know a lot about their own team and very little about teams they don't see on a regular basis. Fans tend to read the mass media pablem that's put out by writers who also don't see much of certain teams, especially if they're out of their spotlight. Attempting to correct missconceptions only gets you labeled a troll. Pat fans still think like every other team we play that Plummer is still a mistake waiting to happen and will throw tons of INT's, that we can't generate a pass rush, that Bailey gets burned deep every game, that we chop block and get away with it...the usual stuff.

BMF Bronco

01-10-2006, 08:33 AM

Its no so much teams not having a good running game its teams not having a passing game
Nor a winning record! Combine the wins of all the teams they beat in the latter part of the year (excluding KC, how'd they do against the Chiefs?) and you may get enough wins collectively to have a .500 season!

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 08:33 AM

Another way to compare what the Pats have done against the rush in the 2nd half of the season compared to the first half. In the first 8 games the Pats held only 2 teams below their season average. Pittsburg (whom the Pats beat) and Atlanta, whom they also beat but Atlanta was without Vick in that game. Those first 8 games included a game against Buffalo @ home in which Buffalo rushed for 147 yards compared to their season average of 100 ypg.

In the 2nd half of the season, not one team rushed for more than their season average. Even KC was held to 37 yards below their season average. The only exception is the last game against Miami which I'm not really counting since the starters didn't play much.

You can't control who you play but you can impact how well you do against those teams comparatively speaking. I think the turnaround is directly tied to the return to health of the front 7 on NE. They have for the most part been all there for the last half of the season.

As I've already said, I'm not saying the Pats will completely shut down Denver's running game but I don't think they'll be running as easily as they did the first time either.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 08:35 AM

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 08:37 AM

I'll grant you they didn't play anyone with a really good running game. But they completely shut down every team they played. Going all the way back to the just after the Indy game here's what they did:

MIA - 77 yards
NO - 87 yards
KC - 112 yards (3.0 ypc)
Jets - 41 yards
BUF - 14 yards
TB - 30 yards
Jets - 40 yards
MIA - 148 yards (2nd string played)
JAX - 87 yards

Throw out the last Miami game since the starters didn't play. Only one other team (KC) broke 100 yards but they only rushed for 3.0 ypc in that game. Pats lost that game on 3 passes that hit a receiver in the hands and was then intercepted.

Again, I know none of those teams other than KC has as good a running game as Denver. However, they still completely shut these teams down. You can only play who's on the schedule and they did what they needed to do against that competition.
I make this point from time to time in here and nobody really takes it seriously so feel free to blow if off if you want to also. But if you go back and take a look at the rushing game of the Denver Broncos over the last several seasons you will find a pattern. In games where Denver has a "feature" back...and by that I don't mean Quinten Griffin...Anderson & Bell will qualify...and when the situation in the game allows for the run to be used as an appropriate strategy...in other words it's not a blowout and we have to pass...you will find that basically one kind of team is able to consistently hold down our rushing attack. It doesn't have anything to do with a 3 man line or speed or how good your linebackers are or even how many pro bowl D-line guys you have. Teams with MASSIVE interior DT's (San Diego's Jamal Williams is the prototype) have the only real consistent success. Miami with Keith Traylor, the Ravens with Maake Kemoeatu...I'm talking about the 350 pounders here...that's who gives the Broncos running game the most trouble.

Vince Wilfork is a good player, but he's not that kind of dominant interior NT that causes us problems. I expect Denver to go over 150 again on the ground in this game.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 08:38 AM

That is some monster competition there buddy. I change my mind now, I am scared of the Pats. Please be gentle on Sat.

My point was simply to show the Pats run defense is much better than the first time these teams played. If you read my other post just above, the improvement is obvious regardless of the competition.

Was there some valid reason why you think Denver will rush for another 178 yards in this game or do you just make it up as you go along?

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 08:41 AM

I'll grant you they didn't play anyone with a really good running game. But they completely shut down every team they played. Going all the way back to the just after the Indy game here's what they did:

MIA - 77 yards
NO - 87 yards
KC - 112 yards (3.0 ypc)
Jets - 41 yards
BUF - 14 yards
TB - 30 yards
Jets - 40 yards
MIA - 148 yards (2nd string played)
JAX - 87 yards

Throw out the last Miami game since the starters didn't play. Only one other team (KC) broke 100 yards but they only rushed for 3.0 ypc in that game. Pats lost that game on 3 passes that hit a receiver in the hands and was then intercepted.

Again, I know none of those teams other than KC has as good a running game as Denver. However, they still completely shut these teams down. You can only play who's on the schedule and they did what they needed to do against that competition.

so let's break this down
MIA - 77 yards....pretty good, but Miami still almost beat you

NO - 87 yards...yeah..good team

KC - 112 yards (3.0 ypc), KC killed you guys, so good job only holding them to 112 yards

Jets - 41 yards...LOL, you don't want to know how many yards we held them to...good team also

BUF - 14 yards...another good team

TB - 30 yards...not hard to do on the road, Chrissy folds up on the road and after that their running game is easy to stop

Jets - 40 yards...again..the Jets?

MIA - 148 yards (2nd string played)....we'll throw this one out

JAX - 87 yards...good, but Byron couldn't move and was rusty...bad coaching move to start him

so looking at that list, I'll give you the first Miami game and the Jax game....but you don't want to know how many yards we held them to AT THEIR HOUSE.....we shut Jax down when everyone was healthy

so basically you have the Miami game to hang your hat on

good job

and guess what

you aren't playing in the friendly confines Saturday either

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 08:42 AM

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 08:43 AM

I make this point from time to time in here and nobody really takes it seriously so feel free to blow if off if you want to also. But if you go back and take a look at the rushing game of the Denver Broncos over the last several seasons you will find a pattern. In games where Denver has a "feature" back...and by that I don't mean Quinten Griffin...Anderson & Bell will qualify...and when the situation in the game allows for the run to be used as an appropriate strategy...in other words it's not a blowout and we have to pass...you will find that basically one kind of team is able to consistently hold down our rushing attack. It doesn't have anything to do with a 3 man line or speed or how good your linebackers are or even how many pro bowl D-line guys you have. Teams with MASSIVE interior DT's (San Diego's Jamal Williams is the prototype) have the only real consistent success. Miami with Keith Traylor, the Ravens with Maake Kemoeatu...I'm talking about the 350 pounders here...that's who gives the Broncos running game the most trouble.

Vince Wilfork is a good player, but he's not that kind of dominant interior NT that causes us problems. I expect Denver to go over 150 again on the ground in this game.

Wilfork is not as good as some of the players you mentioned, but he's made steady progress all year. He's proven to be solid in the middle and since Seymour has come back healthy he's had more of an impact. Also, I feel Bruschi playing and being 100% is critical for the Pats to stop Denver's run. I think with Bruschi out, it could be a long day for the Pats. If he's in, their whole defense plays better and stops the run more effectively.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 08:46 AM

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 08:49 AM

we might not run for 178 yards, but it will be at least 150 or so combined...mark that one down chippy

Maybe..........Baltimore held you to 96. NE's run defense is better than theirs.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 08:52 AM

My point was simply to show the Pats run defense is much better than the first time these teams played. If you read my other post just above, the improvement is obvious regardless of the competition.

Was there some valid reason why you think Denver will rush for another 178 yards in this game or do you just make it up as you go along?

We will run on you no doubt in my mind because that is what we do. You cant stop us. I'm not sure we will have 178 yards this time and actually I think it will be less. We will be able to pass against you and I think we will mix it up and have a very balanced game against you. We will win by 7 or more.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 08:58 AM

Maybe..........Buffalo held you guys to 75 and Baltimore held you to 96. NE's run defense is better than either of theirs.

Says you!

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:00 AM

Says you!

I'd say Buffalo's isn't, but Baltimore's sure is

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:02 AM

Maybe..........Buffalo held you guys to 75 and Baltimore held you to 96. NE's run defense is better than either of theirs.

we played Buffalo on the road, it was their superbowl since they weren't on primetime all year long...well except you guys on Sunday night, and they should've beat you then

Bmore has a much better run defense than yours and besides, they are our kryptonite, we never play good against them

so yeah, keep banking on godBill devising a scheme to stop our running game cold, please bank on that

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:04 AM

Says you!

No, actually that's what the stats say. You'll find Buffalo way down at #31.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RUSHING/2005/regular?sort_col_1=7

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:05 AM

No, actually that's what the stats say. You'll find Buffalo way down at #31.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RUSHING/2005/regular?sort_col_1=7

so they loaded up for bear against our run

Jake killed them with the pass

Paladin

01-10-2006, 09:06 AM

Hey. Boston. Tell us how you think the Broncos have improved over the year. You can do that since you are presenting yourself as an expert on this game. Be objective.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 09:06 AM

No, actually that's what the stats say. You'll find Buffalo way down at #31.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-RUSHING/2005/regular?sort_col_1=7

In order to have an effective arguement you must know what you are talking about and it is apparent that you dont. We didnt need a run game to beat the bills. We passed all over them.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Hey. Boston. Tell us how you think the Broncos have improved over the year. You can do that since you are presenting yourself as an expert on this game. Be objective.

13-3 is obviously an abberation

we suck

the Messiah's rule

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:07 AM

we played Buffalo on the road, it was their superbowl since they weren't on primetime all year long...well except you guys on Sunday night, and they should've beat you then

Bmore has a much better run defense than yours and besides, they are our kryptonite, we never play good against them

so yeah, keep banking on godBill devising a scheme to stop our running game cold, please bank on that

Don't let something like the actual facts effect your argument. The Patriots have the #8 run defense and Baltimore is #9. I'm not sure how that equates to Baltimore having a "much better run defense" but hey, whatever.

Also, I'm not sure if my banking on anything (or you for that matter) will actually impact the outcome of this game. Ya think?

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:08 AM

so they loaded up for bear against our run

Jake killed them with the pass

Oh......I thought the original argument was that you guys run against everyone. My bad.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:09 AM

Don't let something like the actual facts effect your argument. The Patriots have the #8 run defense and Baltimore is #9. I'm not sure how that equates to Baltimore having a "much better run defense" but hey, whatever.

Also, I'm not sure if my banking on anything (or you for that matter) will actually impact the outcome of this game. Ya think?

Baltimore always plays us tough, we have beaten them once since 1995, if you knew football, you'd know that, so yeah, against us, they have a much better run defense

so say your run defense holds us to 100 yards, who is going to stop the pass?

Asante Samuel???

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 09:10 AM

Oh......I thought the original argument was that you guys run against everyone. My bad.

We will run against you! How's that, **** what we did against everyone else we will run on you!

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:10 AM

Oh......I thought the original argument was that you guys run against everyone. My bad.

we do at home...sans one team...our nemesis Bmore

pay attention chippy

Old Dude

01-10-2006, 09:10 AM

Maybe..........Buffalo held you guys to 75 and Baltimore held you to 96. NE's run defense is better than either of theirs.

I'm not sure why you think Buffalo held Denver to 75 rushing yards.

Anderson alone carried the ball 21 times for 97 yards and 2 TDs. Bell added another 49 on the ground. All in all, the Broncos rushed for 178 yards that game.

And the freaky thing is that this was the same game where Plummer threw 37 passes, and Rod Smith hauled in 137 yards on 11 receptions. Overall, Denver piled up 437 net yards.

Buffalo was the team that was held to 75 yards rushing that night.

Maybe you guys think you're playing the Bills this week?

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:11 AM

I'm not sure why you think Buffalo held Denver to 75 rushing yards.

Anderson alone carried the ball 21 times for 97 yards and 2 TDs. Bell added another 49 on the ground. All in all, the Broncos rushed for 178 yards that game.

And the freaky thing is that this was the same game where Plummer threw 37 passes, and Rod Smith hauled in 137 yards on 11 receptions. Overall, Denver piled up 437 net yards.

Buffalo was the team that was held to 75 yards rushing that night.

Maybe you guys think you're playing the Bills this week?

thanks for looking that up OD, I knew that didn't sound right

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 09:12 AM

This Irish guy is giving us Irish a bad name! What a tool.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:14 AM

Hey. Boston. Tell us how you think the Broncos have improved over the year. You can do that since you are presenting yourself as an expert on this game. Be objective.

I'm not so sure you've improved throughout the year because I think you've been solid all year long. There have been no major injuries, no long mental lapses and no losing streaks. The only blowout loss was to Miami in the first game of the season but that's a lifetime ago.

I think this will be a battle that could go either way. I'm not predicting a Patriots win nor am I predicting a loss. These are the type of games the Pats seem to find ways to win though. I think a few posters on this thread like to just say, "we're better" (meaning Denver) and are hanging their hats on the first game when NE was VERY banged up. I just think that's not a realistic view. Pats are playoff tested and know how to win these games. Barring a major injury, the Pats will not get blown out as some suggest.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:22 AM

I'm not sure why you think Buffalo held Denver to 75 rushing yards.

Anderson alone carried the ball 21 times for 97 yards and 2 TDs. Bell added another 49 on the ground. All in all, the Broncos rushed for 178 yards that game.

And the freaky thing is that this was the same game where Plummer threw 37 passes, and Rod Smith hauled in 137 yards on 11 receptions. Overall, Denver piled up 437 net yards.

Buffalo was the team that was held to 75 yards rushing that night.

Maybe you guys think you're playing the Bills this week?

MY bad....I did pick up Buffalo's total not yours. Sorry.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 09:23 AM

I'm not so sure you've improved throughout the year because I think you've been solid all year long. There have been no major injuries, no long mental lapses and no losing streaks. The only blowout loss was to Miami in the first game of the season but that's a lifetime ago.

I think this will be a battle that could go either way. I'm not predicting a Patriots win nor am I predicting a loss. These are the type of games the Pats seem to find ways to win though. I think a few posters on this thread like to just say, "we're better" (meaning Denver) and are hanging their hats on the first game when NE was VERY banged up. I just think that's not a realistic view. Pats are playoff tested and know how to win these games. Barring a major injury, the Pats will not get blown out as some suggest.

We are better! There is no disputing this. We have a better record against better competition. The only advantage I will give you is that your team has more playoff experience. That is it.

We were banged up as well, champ was pulled in the 3rd quarter of that first game.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:26 AM

This Irish guy is giving us Irish a bad name! What a tool.

Apparently you don't know what you were talking about either when you said:
In order to have an effective arguement you must know what you are talking about and it is apparent that you dont. We didnt need a run game to beat the bills. We passed all over them.

Did you also forget you rushed for 178 yards? If you want to have an effective argument you must know what you're talking about and i is apparent you don't!

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:26 AM

IF NE plays the first qtr like last week, Den will blow them out by going up 2 scores. IF Den has a lead and the ball going into halftime, shanny will call timeouts, just to get more shots on the NE dlinemen legs. And, shanny will keep the pressure on all game, unlike he did the first time.

However, I don't think NE will come out sloppy.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:27 AM

We are better! There is no disputing this. We have a better record against better competition. The only advantage I will give you is that your team has more playoff experience. That is it.

We were banged up as well, champ was pulled in the 3rd quarter of that first game.

One guy missed one-and-one-half quarters. Yeah, that's comparable to the Patriots injuries for that game.

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:28 AM

Apparently you don't know what you were talking about either when you said:

Did you also forget you rushed for 178 yards? If you want to have an effective argument you must know what you're talking about and i is apparent you don't!
Excuse me, but you ****ed up posting bogus info, and then you blame a member of this board for taking your word for it. If I thought you'd be here next week, I'd bother putting your lame ass on ignore. LOL

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:29 AM

One guy missed one-and-one-half quarters. Yeah, that's comparable to the Patriots injuries for that game.
No, but it explains why coyer spent the second half in vanilla 2 deep zones.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:35 AM

Excuse me, but you ****ed up posting bogus info, and then you blame a member of this board for taking your word for it. If I thought you'd be here next week, I'd bother putting your lame ass on ignore. LOL

Calm down....Yeah, I made a mistake and I admitted it. He's the one that tried to twist the incorrect information and then flame on me. I'm just giving him back what he gave me. If you'd bother to read my posts, I try to stay factually and don't get into trolling but if someone wants to flame at me I'll respond the same way.

I'd prefer talking football to all the name calling but if you're less comfortable with that then flame away.

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:39 AM

Ah, but you told someone else they didn't know what THEY were talking about because YOU posted bogus stats. You were ok till then.

I tend to agree with you, however, that the game will be close because NE will play better than last week. The first game is meaningless, both in Den's dominance and Brady's passing at will in the second half.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 09:44 AM

One guy missed one-and-one-half quarters. Yeah, that's comparable to the Patriots injuries for that game.

The best corner in football.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:44 AM

The best corner in football.

and the best player on our entire team

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:46 AM

he sucks. Ashanti Samuel is THE MAN!

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:46 AM

The best corner in football.

Ty Law played for you guys?

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:48 AM

and the best player on our entire team

What impact do you think Seymour and Bruschi have on NE defense? Harrison was also out that game and those 3 are definitely our 3 best defensive players. Harrison is done but Hobbs (a rookie) has started to play very well as he's gotten more comfortable in the system.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 09:48 AM

Ty Law played for you guys?

your kidding me, right?

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:48 AM

I knew he was gonna say ty law. roflmao

thanks for the laugh troll. gonnna go play with my dog.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:49 AM

your kidding me, right?

Yeah.....just wanted to see if you guys were really that tight assed or not.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 09:50 AM

I knew he was gonna say ty law. roflmao

thanks for the laugh troll. gonnna go play with my dog.

OK.........have fun.

bendog

01-10-2006, 09:50 AM

bye bosthan

Bronco_Beerslug

01-10-2006, 09:54 AM

Actually, Atlanta is the best in the league at rushing.

While I don't expect the Pats to hold Denver under 100 yards rushing, I also don't expect to see your team have the same success they did running it in the earlier game. Seymour is back and the linebackers are playing much better, more like they did last year.

I'll take our rushing stats over Atlanta's anytime.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9499/stats0yp.png

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 09:55 AM

Wilfork is not as good as some of the players you mentioned, but he's made steady progress all year. He's proven to be solid in the middle and since Seymour has come back healthy he's had more of an impact. Also, I feel Bruschi playing and being 100% is critical for the Pats to stop Denver's run. I think with Bruschi out, it could be a long day for the Pats. If he's in, their whole defense plays better and stops the run more effectively.
As I stated earlier...

It doesn't have anything to do with a 3 man line or speed or how good your linebackers are or even how many pro bowl D-line guys you have. Teams with MASSIVE interior DT's (San Diego's Jamal Williams is the prototype) have the only real consistent success. Miami with Keith Traylor, the Ravens with Maake Kemoeatu...I'm talking about the 350 pounders here...that's who gives the Broncos running game the most trouble.

I stated this to the Redskin fans and they laughed about it. They talked about how good their run D was an what an idiot the little Bronco troll was...165 yards later and 5.9 a pop and they weren't laughing any more. They were pointing fingers at Gibbs, their defense, each other....

I stated this to the Chief fans and they laughed too. Gunther and his new D would rule the day and besides...they had this new rookie LB and their defense was faster...etc...221 yards and 6.0 a crack later and suddenly it wasn't so funny any more.

I could go on...but why bother. Mark it down. Remember this: we will run on you.

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 09:57 AM

I'll take our rushing stats over Atlanta's anytime.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9499/stats0yp.png
Atlanta is a better rushing team only because of Vick being the X-factor. Designed rushing plays there's not much difference...flip a coin. We both run the same system with good backs.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 09:58 AM

Ty Law played for you guys?

Ha ha ha good one!

Bronco_Beerslug

01-10-2006, 10:01 AM

Atlanta is a better rushing team only because of Vick being the X-factor. Designed rushing plays there's not much difference...flip a coin. We both run the same system with good backs.

Atlanta HAS to run the ball. They don't have doodly squat for a passing game where we can do both.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 10:20 AM

As I stated earlier...

It doesn't have anything to do with a 3 man line or speed or how good your linebackers are or even how many pro bowl D-line guys you have. Teams with MASSIVE interior DT's (San Diego's Jamal Williams is the prototype) have the only real consistent success. Miami with Keith Traylor, the Ravens with Maake Kemoeatu...I'm talking about the 350 pounders here...that's who gives the Broncos running game the most trouble.

I stated this to the Redskin fans and they laughed about it. They talked about how good their run D was an what an idiot the little Bronco troll was...165 yards later and 5.9 a pop and they weren't laughing any more. They were pointing fingers at Gibbs, their defense, each other....

I stated this to the Chief fans and they laughed too. Gunther and his new D would rule the day and besides...they had this new rookie LB and their defense was faster...etc...221 yards and 6.0 a crack later and suddenly it wasn't so funny any more.

I could go on...but why bother. Mark it down. Remember this: we will run on you.

I'm not doubting what you're saying as you know your team better than I do. There is one thing that I noticed about the last game though. Denver scored their last TD on the opening possession of the 2nd half. You'd think that would be the time a running team would focus on running the ball in order to use as much clock as possible. The Broncos did run about 50-50 run to pass the rest of the way. However, your 3 RB's (Bell, Anderson and Johnson) only ran for 30 yards on 12 carries (2.5 ypc) and Bell only had 5 carries for 6 yards.

Yes, in the first half they ran successfully with the big run being a Bell run for 68 yards. I'm just wondering if the Pats found something that helped them stop the run much more effectively in the 2nd half.

Bronx33

01-10-2006, 10:22 AM

I'm not doubting what you're saying as you know your team better than I do. There is one thing that I noticed about the last game though. Denver scored their last TD on the opening possession of the 2nd half. You'd think that would be the time a running team would focus on running the ball in order to use as much clock as possible. The Broncos did run about 50-50 run to pass the rest of the way. However, your 3 RB's (Bell, Anderson and Johnson) only ran for 30 yards on 12 carries (2.5 ypc) and Bell only had 5 carries for 6 yards.

Yes, in the first half they ran successfully with the big run being a Bell run for 68 yards. I'm just wondering if the Pats found something that helped them stop the run much more effectively in the 2nd half.

Pulling half our starters might have something to do with it.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 10:22 AM

I'm not doubting what you're saying as you know your team better than I do. There is one thing that I noticed about the last game though. Denver scored their last TD on the opening possession of the 2nd half. You'd think that would be the time a running team would focus on running the ball in order to use as much clock as possible. The Broncos did run about 50-50 run to pass the rest of the way. However, your 3 RB's (Bell, Anderson and Johnson) only ran for 30 yards on 12 carries (2.5 ypc) and Bell only had 5 carries for 6 yards.

Yes, in the first half they ran successfully with the big run being a Bell run for 68 yards. I'm just wondering if the Pats found something that helped them stop the run much more effectively in the 2nd half.

I think we just let up cause we were smokin you. I think this game will be better than the beating we gave you the first game but the result will still be the same.

Old Dude

01-10-2006, 10:23 AM

As I stated earlier...

It doesn't have anything to do with a 3 man line or speed or how good your linebackers are or even how many pro bowl D-line guys you have. Teams with MASSIVE interior DT's (San Diego's Jamal Williams is the prototype) have the only real consistent success. Miami with Keith Traylor, the Ravens with Maake Kemoeatu...I'm talking about the 350 pounders here...that's who gives the Broncos running game the most trouble.

I stated this to the Redskin fans and they laughed about it. They talked about how good their run D was an what an idiot the little Bronco troll was...165 yards later and 5.9 a pop and they weren't laughing any more. They were pointing fingers at Gibbs, their defense, each other....

I stated this to the Chief fans and they laughed too. Gunther and his new D would rule the day and besides...they had this new rookie LB and their defense was faster...etc...221 yards and 6.0 a crack later and suddenly it wasn't so funny any more.

I could go on...but why bother. Mark it down. Remember this: we will run on you.

I agree with all of that with one exception. The damned Colts. Monte Reagor has given us plenty of trouble the past couple of years. A fast guy who knows Denver's system can cause plenty of trouble in the interior. Let's hope Trevor never bolts.

B B

01-10-2006, 10:36 AM

I think stats, rings won, past schedule, playoffs lost, who has the biggest dong...etc, is pretty much meaningless at this point. Serving only the interest of us self-appointed 'analysts' and leaving a wake of chum in our passing for even less invested persons to rise to.

Besides- everyone knows Bruschi has the biggest dong.

ozomulsion

01-10-2006, 10:48 AM

I'm not doubting what you're saying as you know your team better than I do. There is one thing that I noticed about the last game though. Denver scored their last TD on the opening possession of the 2nd half. You'd think that would be the time a running team would focus on running the ball in order to use as much clock as possible. The Broncos did run about 50-50 run to pass the rest of the way. However, your 3 RB's (Bell, Anderson and Johnson) only ran for 30 yards on 12 carries (2.5 ypc) and Bell only had 5 carries for 6 yards.

Yes, in the first half they ran successfully with the big run being a Bell run for 68 yards. I'm just wondering if the Pats found something that helped them stop the run much more effectively in the 2nd half.

Your team isn't the first one to shut down our run game in the second half. Everytime it happened (which wasn't often) we had a big lead and relaxed for some reason. I will promise you, we won't let up at any point in these playoffs. Bank on it.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 10:49 AM

Pulling half our starters might have something to do with it.

Doubtful........especially since NE closed to within one score with over 8 minutes left in the game.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 10:50 AM

Your team isn't the first one to shut down our run game in the second half. Everytime it happened (which wasn't often) we had a big lead and relaxed for some reason. I will promise you, we won't let up at any point in these playoffs. Bank on it.

I promise you NE's run defense will be much improved over the first meeting now that we have healthier players. Bank on that!

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 10:53 AM

I promise you NE's run defense will be much improved over the first meeting now that we have healthier players. Bank on that!
Then we will pass on your really bad pass defense.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 10:57 AM

Then we will pass on your really bad pass defense.

Damn.....I have no comeback for that!

Rohirrim

01-10-2006, 10:58 AM

For sixteen weeks I've read the posts of opposing fans telling us how their team would be the one to stop the Broncos running game. It's beginning to sound like wind chimes.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 10:59 AM

Then we will pass on your really bad pass defense.
Seriously though, unless the Pats get a good pass rush on Jake he will be able to pick apart the secondary. Therefore, is stopping the run really a good thing?

Bronx33

01-10-2006, 11:01 AM

I promise you NE's run defense will be much improved over the first meeting now that we have healthier players. Bank on that!

Just when you think you have it under control.......

http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/82/e35bqbrollout7qr.jpg

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 11:01 AM

For sixteen weeks I've read the posts of opposing fans telling us how their team would be the one to stop the Broncos running game. It's beginning to sound like wind chimes.

I can sympathize with you. For the past several years we've been hearing how the Pats are going to lose to this team and that team come playoff time. I like the wind chime analogy! LOL

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 11:04 AM

I can sympathize with you. For the past several years we've been hearing how the Pats are going to lose to this team and that team come playoff time. I like the wind chime analogy! LOL

uh

you sure about that?

I don't remember one time that anyone picked against the Pats (majority wise) since their superbowl win in 2001, that one no one picked you guys, but after that...hmmm

I think you are wrong

Rock Chalk

01-10-2006, 11:04 AM

Seriously though, unless the Pats get a good pass rush on Jake he will be able to pick apart the secondary. Therefore, is stopping the run really a good thing?
I suspect that Shanny is going to throw out a game plan that Belichik isn't prepared for.

That's what Shanny does (as does Belichik). If you gear up to stop the run in the first 25 scripted plays, you are going to see a lot of passes and just when you drop back to play the pass, Tatum gashes you for 60.

That's what makes Denver so good this year. They have the ability to set up the run with the pass and set up the pass with the run so you just never really know which way its gonna start.

terry251973

01-10-2006, 11:09 AM

The part that explains pats fans stupidity is they are saying everybody thinks denver will win.Other than this guy and possibly michael irvin i havent heard anyone say denver would win.As well as we have ran the ball all year long how can they say that the pats are the only team with a run defense that can stop denver?I guess all the teams this year had pathetic run defenses and thats why we ran so well on them.

Haroldthebarrel

01-10-2006, 11:12 AM

Maybe..........Buffalo held you guys to 75 and Baltimore held you to 96. NE's run defense is better than either of theirs.

Eeeh???

And you accuse people to not argument with facts?

We gained 178 yards rushing on Buffalo.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20051217_DEN@BUF

Bronx33

01-10-2006, 11:15 AM

Eeeh???

And you accuse people to not argument with facts?

We gained 178 yards rushing on Buffalo.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20051217_DEN@BUF

Shhhhhhh harold hes making a point.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 11:21 AM

uh

you sure about that?

I don't remember one time that anyone picked against the Pats (majority wise) since their superbowl win in 2001, that one no one picked you guys, but after that...hmmm

I think you are wrong

If you're talking about them being favorites you're right. But there have been many people that thought Indy would beat us last year and I do believe that Pittsburgh was the favorite in the AFCCG in Pittsburgh. The year before they had home field throughout so there was less talk of them losing.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 11:26 AM

Eeeh???

And you accuse people to not argument with facts?

We gained 178 yards rushing on Buffalo.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20051217_DEN@BUF

Thanks for catching up Harold. You must have missed the part of the thread where I stated this was wrong already.

Bronx33

01-10-2006, 11:27 AM

Thanks for catching up Harold. You must have missed the part of the thread where I stated this was wrong already.

I was fun to rehash though.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 11:32 AM

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 11:34 AM

I was fun to rehash though.

I just know the nightmares are going to start again. I thought I was beyond the pain.:crazy:

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 11:36 AM

Since the current line is Denver by 3 points I'd say more people think Denver will win than NE.

no

that is the standard vegas home field advantage line

Haroldthebarrel

01-10-2006, 11:40 AM

Thanks for catching up Harold. You must have missed the part of the thread where I stated this was wrong already.

Yup. At least you were correct on that one.
then again, you still shot at somebody for not arguing with facts, and that you need to get back at you.
Besides had you knew what you were talking about, Buffalo would have been a very good example. They overemphasized in the game first half to stop the run. Putting eight or nine in the box. That lead to us torching them with passes.
When they adjusted to the passing, we had a field day running.

Secondly, of all the teams Denver has faced this year, only Miami and Baltimore has held us under their avg run defense. Even though the Giants, Chiefs and others are good against the run. The problem is of course stopping the zones, and NOT attack the gaps unless you run blitz. That leads to overpursuing, and least i saw the Pats, they are excellent at attacking the gaps. Against Denver that leads to cutbacks, and a field day with the bootlegs and PA.
Not saying you cannot succeed at holding the running game down to about 110. But if you are to do it, you pretty much have to play a way different defense than you have been doing during your run as a great run defense the second half of the season.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 11:41 AM

no

that is the standard vegas home field advantage line

That's only when the odds first come out. Once bets are placed, the odds are a reflection of who is betting on which team.

bendog

01-10-2006, 11:45 AM

Den does have more trouble with a 3-4 than 4-3. Indy aside, but then it's tough to run when you're down by two scores.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 11:48 AM

Den does have more trouble with a 3-4 than 4-3. Indy aside, but then it's tough to run when you're down by two scores.

normally yes

but for some reason we always matchup well against the Pats

Kaylore

01-10-2006, 11:49 AM

Paladin

01-10-2006, 11:55 AM

Spider

01-10-2006, 11:59 AM

All WCO teams struggle with a 3-4 ............

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 12:02 PM

Yup. At least you were correct on that one.
then again, you still shot at somebody for not arguing with facts, and that you need to get back at you.
Besides had you knew what you were talking about, Buffalo would have been a very good example. They overemphasized in the game first half to stop the run. Putting eight or nine in the box. That lead to us torching them with passes.
When they adjusted to the passing, we had a field day running.

Secondly, of all the teams Denver has faced this year, only Miami and Baltimore has held us under their avg run defense. Even though the Giants, Chiefs and others are good against the run. The problem is of course stopping the zones, and NOT attack the gaps unless you run blitz. That leads to overpursuing, and least i saw the Pats, they are excellent at attacking the gaps. Against Denver that leads to cutbacks, and a field day with the bootlegs and PA.
Not saying you cannot succeed at holding the running game down to about 110. But if you are to do it, you pretty much have to play a way different defense than you have been doing during your run as a great run defense the second half of the season.

Buffalo is not a good example since they have the #31 run defense. Pats are much better than they are.

Your run average is 159 per game. I'm guessing the Pats will hold them to somewhere between 110 and 130. This will be consistent with what they've been doing in the 2nd half. The real question will be if they can stop the pass. If Plummer doesn't pass for more than say 200-225 yards or so I think the Pats win. If Plummer starts passing for much more than 225 then I think Denver will win. The only exception would be if he mixes in a couple of INTs.

On the Pats side, they will have to win by the passing game. The run game will hopefully get 100 but with Dillon not playing that well I'm not sure. However, Denvers pass defense is near the bottom league statistically and Brady is one of the leading passers in the league. This is where NE will have to win the game.

bendog

01-10-2006, 12:02 PM

normally yes

but for some reason we always matchup well against the Pats
2002 40 for 136

2003 29 for 114

2001 29 for 86

But Billichick is God and Tom Terrific is Jesus Christ, so den has no chance.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 12:04 PM

Someday, and it may be years from now, someone at ESPN is going to actually watch a Broncos game and realize that his best plays of late have come from him throwing inside the pocket and that most of his throws are not rollouts. Until then, we will hear aobut how he struggles in the pocket and only can throw on the boot.

I heard a stat on ESPN today (may have been Cold Pizza) that said he's something like 52% completion in the pocket and almost 70% outside. Not sure if they were making it up or if it was actual numbers. If true, that's a huge difference.

BroncoFanDoug

01-10-2006, 12:05 PM

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 12:06 PM

You know, the Pats have improved steadily throughout the whole year. They went from terrible to mediocre in one season!

Yep. I am disrespecting that team. Couldn't have happen to a better group of guys.

I'm reporting you. Only Belichick can talk about the Patriots. If anyone else does, it's disrespectful.

BroncoFanDoug

01-10-2006, 12:10 PM

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 12:14 PM

BI - I've read through this whole thread, and with all the power instilled in me by the OM (zero) I declare you a non-troll. Look like someone talking football to me.

In response to the whole run defense improvements by the pats - I think there is reason to believe that it has improved just by getting a lot of players back. I think the stats in the 2nd half somewhat support this but between the fact that the competition was distinctly weak, and the fact that the opponents were often playing from way behind (thereby no longer running much) I can't put a lot of stock in this. We just don't really know. I agree that you play who you play, but if you had played better teams we would have a much better read on it.

In the same way, I think Denver's passing D is under-rated. We were playing with big leads through a lot of the season. The results - more passing yards given up and lots more picks.

Thanks for the endorsement (I think)..........

I'll agree, since the Pats haven't really been tested we don't know for sure how improved the defense, and specifically the run defense is. I'm just seeing how they went from allowing all but 2 teams run for more than their season average in the first half to not allowing anyone do it in the 2nd half. Even though the teams were crappy, they had relative "crappiness" to their own seasons average. That improvement coincided with Seymour and Bruschi returning along with the emergence of Hobbs in place of the injured Harrison.

As for Denver's pass defense, I think you're right there to a certain extent. While they've given up a lot of yards they've also been thrown on a lot more too. The 11.1 ypc they have is actually pretty good (NE is a league worse 13.3 ypc defensively).

The Big E

01-10-2006, 12:15 PM

If you're talking about them being favorites you're right. But there have been many people that thought Indy would beat us last year and I do believe that Pittsburgh was the favorite in the AFCCG in Pittsburgh. The year before they had home field throughout so there was less talk of them losing.
I'll fess up as one of those that thought Indy would beat you guys last year. However, I thoroughly enjoyed the thrashing dished out on ol' Melonhead. Whoever survives this game must beat down that jerk in the AFC Championship game.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 12:16 PM

I like our chances with 110 to 130 yds on the ground. The pats achillis heel is the secondary, and as long as we establish a credible ground game to keep the D schemes honest, we should have a grand time in the air.

I agree that the pats will end up leaning on Brady to win the game (not a bad strategy). I do think that the Denver pass D is much better than indicated by the raw passing numbers (see my prior post).

Stat wise our pass defense looks soft but we stop the run and force people to pass on us. Plus teams are usually playing from behind and are forced to pass. I think both teams are better than when we met in oct. I alos think we finally have a healthy team minus dwill.

Mile High Shack

01-10-2006, 12:17 PM

Stat wise our pass defense looks soft but we stop the run and force people to pass on us. Plus teams are usually playing from behind and are forced to pass. I think both teams are better than when we met in oct. I alos think we finally have a healthy team minus dwill.

Having a healthy champ is the key IMO

I still think we can get pressure on the messiah with our front 4, the Pats oline doesn't scare me

Haroldthebarrel

01-10-2006, 12:17 PM

Buffalo is not a good example since they have the #31 run defense. Pats are much better than they are.

Your run average is 159 per game. I'm guessing the Pats will hold them to somewhere between 110 and 130. This will be consistent with what they've been doing in the 2nd half. The real question will be if they can stop the pass. If Plummer doesn't pass for more than say 200-225 yards or so I think the Pats win. If Plummer starts passing for much more than 225 then I think Denver will win. The only exception would be if he mixes in a couple of INTs.

On the Pats side, they will have to win by the passing game. The run game will hopefully get 100 but with Dillon not playing that well I'm not sure. However, Denvers pass defense is near the bottom league statistically and Brady is one of the leading passers in the league. This is where NE will have to win the game.

I disagree. Buffalo is a great example to gameplans. They decided Denver wont be running on us, so we anticipated that and passed. Pats need to do some of the same in that they need to change their gameplans. They attack the gaps a lot with their line and lbs. With Denver that often leads to cutbacks. That also leads to a great success with PA and bootlegs, should denver be moderately succesful with "only" ca 120 yards runnings.
Your DL needs to play diciplined and controle their gap assignments. Denvers Olinemen will blow past you at times, but you cannot react to them. You need to play gap control.
Considering denver has had two weeks to gameplan and that the Pats have one week, I give the edge to denver here. Combine that with the altitude and the mile high crowd and it should be even more of an edge.
Pats need to alter their base run defense within a week, they also need to practice against denvers run d with their scouts, and execute good on game day.
No wonder really that Denver matches up pretty good with the Pats and that denver has a good record against them.

I agree with you on your offense vs our defense though. Denver can be passed upon, and Brady is one of the guys that is so good that he has a great shot. The thing that scare me the most is your screen passes and short routes vs our corners who sags a lot. Brady is a master on the three step pass, and nearly impossible to stop on a third and three/four unless you play press coverage. Which we dont excell at all!
Your OL, as underrated as it is, is also healthy I think, which should make it even harder for us to pressure Brady. Not that it usually matter much anyway as Brady is brave in the pocket to take the hit as he releases, and it is not that we are the purple people eaters either.

It should be a close game though. All things and prognostics gets thrown off the window with a defensive six pointer or great special teams though. We seem to as good on STs so maybe the game could get decided on a lucky play.
Me, I just hope nobody gets injured like it did Cincy in, and I hope for goodness sake that the refs dont have any questionable calls like all the fumbles in the Giants game that were ruled down by contact. Luckily that didnt influence the game.

Kaylore

01-10-2006, 12:21 PM

No. The Patriots run defense is NOT getting better. Here is a re-post of mine that got burried but it breaks down why teams rushing numbers against them are so low in the final month.

What isn't looked at is how potent the rushing defense each of those teams was, and other variables like injuries to the teams' backs and number of times the Patriots opponents actually ran the ball, which was usually in the single digits.

Here are where each of those teams rank in terms of Rushing offense.

Jets - 31st

Buffalo - 20th

Bucs - 14th

Jags - 10th

The Buffalo's were behind so much that they only ran the ball 11 times. Kind of the same story in the Bucs case, though Cadiliac ran it a little more. They ran the ball eight times in the Jets game. They also gave up 100 yards rushing to Ricky Williams.

A still hurt Fred Taylor also rushed a mere 8 times yesterday. Greg Jones rushed twice for 15 yards. And Alvin Pearman rushed twice for 8 yards. So those averages against their run defense don't look too great either. They have the highest average yards allowed of all the teams in the playoffs right now at 5.0+

So What I see is a team that puts up a bunch of points and forces a team to give up on the run early, not a team that shuts rushing teams down.

...Of course they are still playing well enough to make people give up the run, so it's not like they aren't a good team ( like that needs to be said....no disrespect to the Patriots.)

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 12:24 PM

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 12:27 PM

I like our chances with 110 to 130 yds on the ground. The pats achillis heel is the secondary, and as long as we establish a credible ground game to keep the D schemes honest, we should have a grand time in the air.

I agree that the pats will end up leaning on Brady to win the game (not a bad strategy). I do think that the Denver pass D is much better than indicated by the raw passing numbers (see my prior post).

Earlier in the year the Pats were giving up several huge gains every single game. In the last game alone I think they gave up a 72 yard completion, a 55 yard completion and a 68 yard run from Bell, all of which led to TD's. The Patriot's have typically not done that, at least not the last few years. I'm not sure of the stats, but just from watching all the games I know they've cut down significantly on the big plays.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 12:34 PM

I'll fess up as one of those that thought Indy would beat you guys last year. However, I thoroughly enjoyed the thrashing dished out on ol' Melonhead. Whoever survives this game must beat down that jerk in the AFC Championship game.

LOL.......I agree. I'm actually a regular on the Indy message board so there's lots of banter about Manning versus Brady.....stats versus accomplishments. There's some good posters there but there are a lot of whiners too. I hope whoever wins this game does in fact beat the Colts badly.

Edit: I'm not convinced the Steelers won't be them this weekend.

Elway 4 Life

01-10-2006, 12:45 PM

Earlier in the year the Pats were giving up several huge gains every single game. In the last game alone I think they gave up a 72 yard completion, a 55 yard completion and a 68 yard run from Bell, all of which led to TD's. The Patriot's have typically not done that, at least not the last few years. I'm not sure of the stats, but just from watching all the games I know they've cut down significantly on the big plays.
I would rather give a big play once or twice a game then have a team just pummell you all the way down the field 4-5 yards at a time. A good solid ball control offense similar to pitt is just so devasting to a defense. By the 3rd and 4th quarter they are so worn down. We scored quick against you guys and left brady alot of time.

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 06:33 PM

I agree with all of that with one exception. The damned Colts. Monte Reagor has given us plenty of trouble the past couple of years. A fast guy who knows Denver's system can cause plenty of trouble in the interior. Let's hope Trevor never bolts.
See the part about "when the run game is appropriate"...ie; we're not getting blown out and have to pass instead of run.

See the past two Colts games for definition of "blowout"

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 06:40 PM

See the part about "when the run game is appropriate"...ie; we're not getting blown out and have to pass instead of run.

See the past two Colts games for definition of "blowout"

Just looking for your honest assessment of what you think the key to the game will be. Obviously you feel the Broncos will win and I "hope" the Pats will win. What do you think is the key for the Broncos to win and vice versa, how could the Pats win in your opinion?

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 06:44 PM

However, Denvers pass defense is near the bottom league statistically and Brady is one of the leading passers in the league. This is where NE will have to win the game.
This is a great example of why it pays to look behind the surface at stats. Denver's given up a lot of YARDS...mostly in prevent mode as teams threw to catch up.

Did you happen to notice that Denver's defense has given up a lot of YARDS because opposing teams have thrown the most ATTEMPTS at us of any team in the NFL? That's not due to vulnerability. It's due to teams trying to catch up.

Did you happen to notice that Denver's deense is 3rd in the NFL in pass completion percentage and 6th in INT's?

Things ain't always what they seem.

Bronco Bob

01-10-2006, 06:51 PM

This is a great example of why it pays to look behind the surface at stats. Denver's given up a lot of YARDS...mostly in prevent mode as teams threw to catch up.

Did you happen to notice that Denver's defense has given up a lot of YARDS because opposing teams have thrown the most ATTEMPTS at us of any team in the NFL? That's not due to vulnerability. It's due to teams trying to catch up.

Did you happen to notice that Denver's deense is 3rd in the NFL in pass completion percentage and 6th in INT's?

Things ain't always what they seem.

To me points given up is the only statistic that matters in regards to a defense.
As in 22-3 and 23-7.

footstepsfrom#27

01-10-2006, 06:52 PM

Just looking for your honest assessment of what you think the key to the game will be. Obviously you feel the Broncos will win and I "hope" the Pats will win. What do you think is the key for the Broncos to win and vice versa, how could the Pats win in your opinion?
The key for Denver is always the same.

1) Run
2) Stop the run

When we run and stop the run we can beat anyone.

Defensively we have to control the clock with sustained drives, keep Brady off the field and control the flow of the game. If you watch many games at Invesco, you'll see a lot of yards are gained by our offense on the ground beginning near the middle of the 3rd quarter. Denver's stretch zone blocking scheme forces defensive lines to move laterally on almost every play. Fatigue becomes a greater and greater factor as the altitude problem begins to enter the picture for the 300 pounders in the trench trying to avoid getting cut at the LOS.

It's not by accident that our home winning percentage during losing seasons has held remarkably true, with a minimal drop off from teams that had winning seasons. The homefield here is huge and Shanny's offense is designed to fatigue teams into submission.

On defense we need to continue to attack the ball and stay consistent with a team that's caused turnovers all year on defense.

Finally, Shanny needs to match Belichick move for move. This will be a chess match...I think a good one.

BostonIrish

01-10-2006, 07:00 PM

The key for Denver is always the same.

1) Run
2) Stop the run

When we run and stop the run we can beat anyone.

Defensively we have to control the clock with sustained drives, keep Brady off the field and control the flow of the game. If you watch many games at Invesco, you'll see a lot of yards are gained by our offense on the ground beginning near the middle of the 3rd quarter. Denver's stretch zone blocking scheme forces defensive lines to move laterally on almost every play. Fatigue becomes a greater and greater factor as the altitude problem begins to enter the picture for the 300 pounders in the trench trying to avoid getting cut at the LOS.

It's not by accident that our home winning percentage during losing seasons has held remarkably true, with a minimal drop off from teams that had winning seasons. The homefield here is huge and Shanny's offense is designed to fatigue teams into submission.

On defense we need to continue to attack the ball and stay consistent with a team that's caused turnovers all year on defense.

Finally, Shanny needs to match Belichick move for move. This will be a chess match...I think a good one.

Good assessment........and I kind of agree.

It's funny how your keys are around the running game and I would say the Pats keys are more on the passing side. If Brady has a big day, the Pats win however if Plummer has a stats even close to Brady's the Broncos will win. Plummer doesn't need to match Brady, just have a "good" game. Brady needs to have at least a "very good" game, if not excellent game.

The running game, in my opinion will offset each other. I think Denver will get their runs in but over all won't control the game as a result of their running. NE's front seven is one of the best in the NFL and they always focus on stopping the run first, the pass second. On offense, I wouldn't be afraid of NE's running game since it's sucked all year. Dillon is a shadow of the player he was last year.

I really think it will be a close game, decided late in the 4th quarter. NE doesn't blow many teams out nor have they in the past 4 years. They just don't usually shoot themselves in the foot either. Should be fun!

yavoon

01-10-2006, 07:01 PM

no

that is the standard vegas home field advantage line

good thing its being played in denver then huh!

Merlin

01-10-2006, 08:13 PM

On the Pats side, they will have to win by the passing game. The run game will hopefully get 100 but with Dillon not playing that well I'm not sure. However, Denvers pass defense is near the bottom league statistically and Brady is one of the leading passers in the league. This is where NE will have to win the game.
You guys should really learn how to interpret stats. I have mentioned this before, but it obviuosly bears repearing.

If you use a very poor statistical method, then you would just look at yds per game, but that says absolutely nothing about the quality of the D (btw, GB has the highest rated passing D by that standard, have you seen them play ). Denver faced by far the most passes in the league, so it is only natural that it have the most yards passed against it. But break down the stats and what do you get:

1. Denver is ranked 3rd in points allowed in the NFL
2. Denver is ranked 4th in the NFL is yds/pass (so much for 29th!)
3. Denver is rated second in the league in TO ratio
4. Denver is ranked 2nd in interceptions for the league
5. Denver is ranked 6th in the league against percentage completions
6. Football outsiders, who ranks D based on the opposition, among other factors, ranked the pass D 4th in the NFL
7. Denver's O ranks higher than NE by every measure (except passing, but not much difference there) even though it played much tougher teams.

So tell me, how do those stats indicate a poor pass D?

Merlin

01-10-2006, 08:15 PM

good thing its being played in denver then huh!
The line has really little to do with who really is the better team, but rather how to set a balanced betting. Gambling houses make their money from the cut (10%?) they take, not so much from people betting on the wrong team. Winners are usually paid by the losers.

yavoon

01-10-2006, 08:18 PM

The line has really little to do with who really is the better team, but rather how to set a balanced betting. Gambling houses make their money from the cut (10%?) they take, not so much from people betting on the wrong team. Winners are usually paid by the losers.

I know but the previous post wasn't making a qualification of who is better so it really all just works out!

sirhcyennek81

01-10-2006, 08:22 PM

Three rookies, 2 second year players, champ bailey and lynch and ferguson is as good a secondary we have had in a very long time. when the game was in the balance in october, our rookies held up, the patriots could not compete with us, and i am thinking the same thing happens.

:Broncos:

BroncoFanDoug

01-10-2006, 08:47 PM

Good assessment........and I kind of agree.

It's funny how your keys are around the running game and I would say the Pats keys are more on the passing side. If Brady has a big day, the Pats win however if Plummer has a stats even close to Brady's the Broncos will win. Plummer doesn't need to match Brady, just have a "good" game. Brady needs to have at least a "very good" game, if not excellent game.

The running game, in my opinion will offset each other. I think Denver will get their runs in but over all won't control the game as a result of their running. NE's front seven is one of the best in the NFL and they always focus on stopping the run first, the pass second. On offense, I wouldn't be afraid of NE's running game since it's sucked all year. Dillon is a shadow of the player he was last year.

I really think it will be a close game, decided late in the 4th quarter. NE doesn't blow many teams out nor have they in the past 4 years. They just don't usually shoot themselves in the foot either. Should be fun!

I say the running game is still the key. If the patsies need to commit more to stop the running game (and Denver will test and test it), or even stay honest in run defense, we will have big success down field. If you can stop us in base D and occassionally cheat to protect the pass, we will struggle.

Although the Pat weakness is the pass-D, we will only exploit it with the run game working. If the run game goes well against base defense we will go deep almost at will.

bloodsunday

01-11-2006, 12:17 PM

It's funny how your keys are around the running game and I would say the Pats keys are more on the passing side. If Brady has a big day, the Pats win however if Plummer has a stats even close to Brady's the Broncos will win. Plummer doesn't need to match Brady, just have a "good" game. Brady needs to have at least a "very good" game, if not excellent game. I agree with you here in that Plummer doesn't need to match Brady throw for throw, he just needs to make plays like he has all year long. We are a much more balanced team. I expect Brady will take a bunch of hits just like he did in the first meeting. Our defense will bring pressure. New Englanders (and the media) keep talking about how "healthy" New England is this time around, well remember that Champ Bailey was only about 60% and played about a half in that game.

The running game, in my opinion will offset each other. I think Denver will get their runs in but over all won't control the game as a result of their running. NE's front seven is one of the best in the NFL and they always focus on stopping the run first, the pass second. On offense, I wouldn't be afraid of NE's running game since it's sucked all year. Dillon is a shadow of the player he was last year. First of all, NE's front 7 is in fact not the best in the NFL. Some might say they aren't even the best front 7 in this game. Secondly, we run the ball on every team we play, period. We ran the ball on the Chargers, the Cowboys, and the Jaguars. Sometimes we use an efficient passing game to set up the run. Nonetheless, we will run the ball. The only team that really shut our run game down all year was Baltimore (but we always struggle against them). If you have an edge to hope for, it should be turnovers. Outside of a major advantage in the turnover battle (+2 or pts as a result), I don't think NE can win.

I really think it will be a close game, decided late in the 4th quarter. NE doesn't blow many teams out nor have they in the past 4 years. They just don't usually shoot themselves in the foot either. Should be fun! I don't think so. Denver will either win this game in spectuacular fashion or lose it that way. They are a better team than NE and will prove it unless they start making a bunch of mistakes. On the flipside, if Denver comes out and feeds off the crowd (I guarantee NE won't play in a louder venue) they may run New England right out of the building.

Keep one thing in mind. You were only up 7 - 3 on a J'Ville team that couldn't get out of its own way last week.

bloodsunday

01-11-2006, 12:24 PM

3. Denver is rated second in the league in TO ratio
4. Denver is ranked 2nd in interceptions for the league
Tom Brady is 12/12 in INT/TD ratio away from Gillette Stadium as well. He was 14/2 at home.

elsid13

01-11-2006, 02:48 PM

First of all, NE's front 7 is in fact not the best in the NFL. Some might say they aren't even the best front 7 in this game. Secondly, we run the ball on every team we play, period. We ran the ball on the Chargers, the Cowboys, and the Jaguars. Sometimes we use an efficient passing game to set up the run. Nonetheless, we will run the ball. The only team that really shut our run game down all year was Baltimore (but we always struggle against them). If you have an edge to hope for, it should be turnovers. Outside of a major advantage in the turnover battle (+2 or pts as a result), I don't think NE can win.

Let point out something on Baltimore game, they committed 9 games to stop the run (sometimes played 5 down lineman) and left Chris Mac and Rolle one on one against the Denver WR. Add to the fact that Ed Reed (the best Safety in game) was playing any team would struggle to run against Baltimore in those condition. NE doesn't have the corners able to what Baltimore did.

terry251973

01-11-2006, 02:55 PM

Well as long as the broncos dont come out flat and play horrible defense then ill say denver wins going away 31-20.I really dont think denvers running game will be shut down because in order to try and shut down the run you leave yourself wide open to get hurt by smith,lelie and jeb.