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View Full Version : Just not sure im sold on VY ...


TDmvp
01-05-2006, 03:21 PM
ok ill get flamed for this but who cares .... its true and no one else seems to want to step away from the cool-aid and say it ... BUT its college ball ....

Yes i watched the game ,and wanted texas to win and VY put on a hell of a show VS a college D but iv heard this story all to many times . "THIS GUYS GOING TO OWN THE NFL" and FLOP ... im sorry but i just dont think the college style game which VY runs carries over to the NFL ... the run and shoot and option game "which VC is sorta one of a semi option QB" just dont work in NFL .

after the game lastnight i actually heard one of the 3 college game day guys call him the greatest college qb of all time ... and i actually laughed i mean come on ... one game and dudes joe montana ...

OR maybe he is the greatest COLLEGE qb of all time and nothing more if my college "style" qb dont work in the nfl holds true ... case in point ... Mike Vick ... "or if we want a run and shooter that didnt work in nfl david kleilner rodney pete"

i know this sounds harsh and all but after liven in cincy threw the 80s just because you was a world beater the college dont mean dick...

Ill say this ... VC has ice water pumping threw him and is all heart and that might of been one of the greatest single game showing for a qb of all time ...

but its just one game ... and one college game at that ...

azbroncfan
01-05-2006, 03:23 PM
I agree, same things were said about Vick except I think VY is a better passer. NFL is a different beast and I think he can do his runs but lets see how his passing is.

ludo21
01-05-2006, 03:27 PM
Vince looks down field first, then runs if ntohing is there. Not like Vick who gets the snap then runs caz he cant see over the pocket.

VY is big, strong, and smart. He reminds me of Daunte, but with the ability to be better.

He will struggle at first no doubt, but what college QB doesnt struggle his first couple years , especially when thrust onto a franchise that expects him to pwn with no OL.

TDmvp
01-05-2006, 03:28 PM
VY is way better passer. but its all set up by the fear of him running . NFL teams seem to play those running QBs in a diff manner then college teams do ... i think it goes back to the BIG fish small pond thing ... NFL teams have 11 guys as good as the best person on any college D ...

IF VY grasp the NFL style game the skys the limit . but im not ready to hand him his HoF ring and bust just yet ...

elsid13
01-05-2006, 03:33 PM
Young has a lot of positive things going for him, good size and strength, mobile as hell, good arm, and leader.

But he also has funky throwing style (in the NFL that ball going to get batted down) and he had Mock Brown as coach. Question is how will Young style work in NFL scheme.

footstepsfrom#27
01-05-2006, 03:39 PM
You know I've been around football a long time and I continuously hear this stuff about quarterbacks...but I rarely hear it about any other position. Ever hear anyone say..."I really don't see this defensive tackle making it...he's played in a college game, not the NFL". The problem with this kind of thinking is that the NFL is full of successful QB's who were nowhere near as much of an impact player as Vince Young is in College. People keep acting like this kid hasn't had these kind of games before, which he has...numerous times. Maybe the stakes weren't as high or his visibililty as great...though he certainly torched Michigan in last years Rose Bowl...but they keep acting like he can't throw the ball...yet he had the 3rd highest passer rating in the NCAA. They say "it's the NFL" and a QB has to pass, but his arm is a lot stronger than most of the NFL Quarterbacks. Did you see this guy flilck the ball as effortlessly as if he were logging a tennis ball?

Talent is talent. Virtually EVERY player in the NFL has things to adjust to. MOST college quarterbacks have to learn a pro style offense, not just the kids who run a lot. Young will have a learning curve to go through but this guy has unmatched talent. I can't see Houston passing on him but if they do the team who gets him is going to cause nightmares for opponents for years to come.

footstepsfrom#27
01-05-2006, 03:41 PM
VY is way better passer. but its all set up by the fear of him running . NFL teams seem to play those running QBs in a diff manner then college teams do ... i think it goes back to the BIG fish small pond thing ... NFL teams have 11 guys as good as the best person on any college D ...
And yet every NFL defense is full of guys who were playing IN COLLEGE a year or two earlier...go figure. EVERY NFL player has to face the increased competition, and yet we see guys drafted in the 7th round...some of them not drafted at all (Rod Smith) who make it. Young will be great.

Hotrod
01-05-2006, 03:51 PM
Im too busy to post a big old reply as to why but just take Hotrods wisdom and mark him down as a bust :yep: and move on.

dsmoot
01-05-2006, 03:55 PM
You know I've been around football a long time and I continuously hear this stuff about quarterbacks...but I rarely hear it about any other position. Ever hear anyone say..."I really don't see this defensive tackle making it...he's played in a college game, not the NFL". The problem with this kind of thinking is that the NFL is full of successful QB's who were nowhere near as much of an impact player as Vince Young is in College. People keep acting like this kid hasn't had these kind of games before, which he has...numerous times. Maybe the stakes weren't as high or his visibililty as great...though he certainly torched Michigan in last years Rose Bowl...but they keep acting like he can't throw the ball...yet he had the 3rd highest passer rating in the NCAA. They say "it's the NFL" and a QB has to pass, but his arm is a lot stronger than most of the NFL Quarterbacks. Did you see this guy flilck the ball as effortlessly as if he were logging a tennis ball?

Talent is talent. Virtually EVERY player in the NFL has things to adjust to. MOST college quarterbacks have to learn a pro style offense, not just the kids who run a lot. Young will have a learning curve to go through but this guy has unmatched talent. I can't see Houston passing on him but if they do the team who gets him is going to cause nightmares for opponents for years to come.


The most impressive thing about VY is that he produced in the clutch. Down 12 with 5 minutes to go. They (USC) knew what was coming and they couldn't stop it, blitzing and all. VY kept his cool and produced against the top team in nation. This is what can't be taught and does translate well into the NFL. This is the intangible Tom Brady brings, coolness under pressure. The learning curve everyone goes through. I was impressed that he did look downfield first, not with happy feet. I only wish I had seen a little more of him.

Bronco Bob
01-05-2006, 03:55 PM
ok ill get flamed for this but who cares .... its true and no one else seems to want to step away from the cool-aid and say it ... BUT its college ball ....

Yes i watched the game ,and wanted texas to win and VY put on a hell of a show VS a college D but iv heard this story all to many times . "THIS GUYS GOING TO OWN THE NFL" and FLOP ... im sorry but i just dont think the college style game which VY runs carries over to the NFL ... the run and shoot and option game "which VC is sorta one of a semi option QB" just dont work in NFL .

after the game lastnight i actually heard one of the 3 college game day guys call him the greatest college qb of all time ... and i actually laughed i mean come on ... one game and dudes joe montana ...

OR maybe he is the greatest COLLEGE qb of all time and nothing more if my college "style" qb dont work in the nfl holds true ... case in point ... Mike Vick ... "or if we want a run and shooter that didnt work in nfl david kleilner rodney pete"

i know this sounds harsh and all but after liven in cincy threw the 80s just because you was a world beater the college dont mean dick...

Ill say this ... VC has ice water pumping threw him and is all heart and that might of been one of the greatest single game showing for a qb of all time ...

but its just one game ... and one college game at that ...


I heard one of the talking heads say if given a choice between Michael
Vick and Vince Young to head an NFL team as QB, he would take
Vince Young, that Young is so much greater a QB than Vick.

And Young has never even taken a snap yet in an NFL game yet
this guy is going to dump Vick and put Young in as the starting QB.

Archer81
01-05-2006, 04:04 PM
VY reminds me of Aaron Brooks. Not in a good way.

:Broncos:

Kaylore
01-05-2006, 04:25 PM
Well no one knows how he could turn out but his passing is light years better than Vick's and he is 6'5" compared to Vick's 6' even. No one really knows, but I like what I see so far.

Northman
01-05-2006, 04:35 PM
BUT its college ball ....

So let me get this straight, Vince has a hell of a game but yet its just college ball. But yet you dont mention Leinart in the same sentence. Now why is that i wonder?

Rock Chalk
01-05-2006, 04:45 PM
If you go by, Its College Ball.

Then you can make the same case for Bush, White, Sweed, D'Brick, Huff.

They are just playing a boy's game, None of them will succeed in the NFL.

See how stupid your argument sounds now.

You look at VY and all his natual abilities, then you add in a great arm strength and just sheer size and the guy is every bit worth the first overall pick. Everrything he lacks, can be taught and I believe he can learn it quickly.

Watch out if he does, because this kid WILL set the NFL on fire if he can adjust to the NFL.

kappys
01-05-2006, 04:50 PM
QB will always be the toughest position to judge who will become and NFL ready talent. The thing is there are a lot of DT's, LB's, RB's, etc. who never quite live up to their 1st round billing, but most of them do end up being starters somewhere.

QB's often seem to be a feast or famine phenomenon. Either they adjust well to the NFL game, or they suck it up. AFterall, I could probably name twice or three times as many QB busts as I could at any other position. That is certainly a function of visibility, but also just the nature of the game.

That said if you strike gold that can put your franchise into contention for the next 10+ years. Hard to say that there is any other position where a star player can do that.

TheManeMan
01-05-2006, 04:59 PM
I didnt see him get behind the center all game...I'm sure he'll have some problems in the NFL just because of that...He'll need to have a great coach to teach him the basics of an NFL style offense that doesnt have him in the shotgun position on every snap...It'll be a tough learning transition...forsure...

***cough***Alex Smith***cough***

TDmvp
01-05-2006, 05:04 PM
Bush, White, Sweed, D'Brick, Huff. didnt mention them cuz no one was hyping them like they are gods .... OK bush gets hype .. and thats all it is .. hype ... metion this kid in same breath as Walter or Sayers is a slap in those 2 guys face ... If anyone should know by now its broncos fans that GOOD hbs are a dime a dozen .... UNGODLY hbs are super rare ... theres only 30 some in the HOF ... and i bet half of these are all that and a new pair of pants ..

Its the system stupid ... or Its the Line stupid ... "it's the economy stupid"


as far as this post ... "So let me get this straight, Vince has a hell of a game but yet its just college ball. But yet you dont mention Leinart in the same sentence. Now why is that i wonder?" ..

i didnt metion Leinart cuz i dont think theres a reason to ... no ones calling him the next GOD and if they are they are fools ... Matts a great college QB as well but hes playing on a team thats LOADED id think theres tons of college qbs who would look good if they had what he has around him ... and its colllege ball ... im sorry college ball is just bush leage compaired to the NFL ... its not even a good minor leage to the pros ...

i smell a tad bit of thinking its a Race thing in the post by Anubis...
and if you think thats the case you dont know me very well ...

kappys
01-05-2006, 05:07 PM
Bush, White, Sweed, D'Brick, Huff. didnt mention them cuz no one was hyping them like they are gods .... OK bush gets hype .. and thats all it is .. hype ... metion this kid in same breath as Walter or Sayers is a slap in those 2 guys face ... If anyone should know by now its broncos fans that GOOD hbs are a dime a dozen .... UNGODLY hbs are super rare ... theres only 30 some in the HOF ... and i bet half of these are all that and a new pair of pants ..

Its the system stupid ... or Its the Line stupid ... "it's the economy stupid"


as far as this post ... "So let me get this straight, Vince has a hell of a game but yet its just college ball. But yet you dont mention Leinart in the same sentence. Now why is that i wonder?" ..

i didnt metion Leinart cuz i dont think theres a reason to ... no ones calling him the next GOD and if they are they are fools ... Matts a great college QB as well but hes playing on a team thats LOADED id think theres tons of college qbs who would look good if they had what he has around him ... and its colllege ball ... im sorry college ball is just bush leage compaired to the NFL ... its not even a good minor leage to the pros ...

i smell a tad bit of thinking its a Race thing in the post by Anubis...
and if you think thats the case you dont know me very well ...

It sounds like the problem you're having is with the hype machine that is making out Vince Young to be the coming of Jesus on the football field.

Welcome to the ESPN world my friend.

Rock Chalk
01-05-2006, 05:32 PM
For the record, most pro Young people I have seen on this board (media outlets notwithstanding) have been fairly level headed.

The guy has ungodly athletic ability. He is kinda like the Lebron James of football. How well it translates will be a matter of coaching and his ability to change, and that is all speculation by even the best experts. What most pro Young people are stressing is that his athletic ability is equal to Vick, BUT he has shown he can throw the ball much more accurately. Mechanics can be worked on, but the pocket poise he showed no matter what quality of team he was against, in the crunch 4th and game, 30 something seconds. That **** is as Godly as you get on the football field.

Poise you can't teach. Mechanics you can. The pro Young people who are at least somewhat intelligent stress this and that the possibilities of him grasping the NFL life are, well, legendary potential. Keyword, potential.

Of course no one knows how well he is going to do. But we can imagine the possibilities.

The Big E
01-05-2006, 05:44 PM
For the record, most pro Young people I have seen on this board (media outlets notwithstanding) have been fairly level headed.

The guy has ungodly athletic ability. He is kinda like the Lebron James of football. How well it translates will be a matter of coaching and his ability to change, and that is all speculation by even the best experts. What most pro Young people are stressing is that his athletic ability is equal to Vick, BUT he has shown he can throw the ball much more accurately. Mechanics can be worked on, but the pocket poise he showed no matter what quality of team he was against, in the crunch 4th and game, 30 something seconds. That **** is as Godly as you get on the football field.

Poise you can't teach. Mechanics you can. The pro Young people who are at least somewhat intelligent stress this and that the possibilities of him grasping the NFL life are, well, legendary potential. Keyword, potential.

Of course no one knows how well he is going to do. But we can imagine the possibilities.
Good post. I hope it all comes together for the kid in the NFL, because he is a pleasure to watch. He does have an ugly delivery, but I'll take the results any day.

Billy Clyde Puckett
01-05-2006, 05:59 PM
Once again, I hate it when people mention Yong and Vick in the same breath. The only similarity is that they both happen to be black and happen to be athletes. They are nothing alike as football players.

Young is a phenominal athlete however, the big difference between John Elway and Ryan Leaf was intangibles, the diifference between TD and Curtis Ennis was intangibles, the biggest difference between Rod Smith and David Terrell is intangibles. At this point in time we can only guess about Young's intangibles.

Sgt Sauce
01-05-2006, 06:02 PM
Surrond him with the right talent and he'll be a solid NFL QB.. he's like a much more athletic Ben Roethlisberger.. he's 6' 5 and 235lbs, quite a bit bigger then Vick, so he should be more durable


anyone see the bang cartoon where it gives the top 10 excuses for Michael Vicks bad year.. pretty funny.. the Portis bit after is good too

enjoy:

http://www.bangcartoon.com/portis.htm



herpes cream.. not good!!

Broncoman13
01-05-2006, 06:05 PM
ok ill get flamed for this but who cares .... its true and no one else seems to want to step away from the cool-aid and say it ... BUT its college ball ....

Yes i watched the game ,and wanted texas to win and VY put on a hell of a show VS a college D but iv heard this story all to many times . "THIS GUYS GOING TO OWN THE NFL" and FLOP ... im sorry but i just dont think the college style game which VY runs carries over to the NFL ... the run and shoot and option game "which VC is sorta one of a semi option QB" just dont work in NFL .

after the game lastnight i actually heard one of the 3 college game day guys call him the greatest college qb of all time ... and i actually laughed i mean come on ... one game and dudes joe montana ...

OR maybe he is the greatest COLLEGE qb of all time and nothing more if my college "style" qb dont work in the nfl holds true ... case in point ... Mike Vick ... "or if we want a run and shooter that didnt work in nfl david kleilner rodney pete"

i know this sounds harsh and all but after liven in cincy threw the 80s just because you was a world beater the college dont mean dick...

Ill say this ... VC has ice water pumping threw him and is all heart and that might of been one of the greatest single game showing for a qb of all time ...

but its just one game ... and one college game at that ...


Everybody is entitled to their own opinion... yours just happens to be wrong! ;D

FADERPROOF
01-05-2006, 06:12 PM
OK bush gets hype .. and thats all it is .. hype ... metion this kid in same breath as Walter or Sayers is a slap in those 2 guys face ...

He's been described as having the power of O.J. Simpson but the speed and moves of Barry Sanders...I'd say that is some hype.

Rock Chalk
01-05-2006, 08:29 PM
Once again, I hate it when people mention Yong and Vick in the same breath. The only similarity is that they both happen to be black and happen to be athletes. They are nothing alike as football players.

Dont be stupid. Young and Vick have one similarity, the ability to run with super human ability. They are two of the most athletic people you will see on a football field and their ability to make plays is very similar.

And they are both black athletes but that has nothing to do with it. If that were the case I would have thrown McNabb and Culpecker into the mix.

I think that Young has the POTENTIAL to be the passer that McNabb has become and about twice teh athletic ability Vick brings (because of the danger of the pass).

That makes for one scary combination.

Billy Clyde Puckett
01-05-2006, 08:42 PM
Dont be stupid. Young and Vick have one similarity, the ability to run with super human ability. They are two of the most athletic people you will see on a football field and their ability to make plays is very similar.

And they are both black athletes but that has nothing to do with it. If that were the case I would have thrown McNabb and Culpecker into the mix.

I think that Young has the POTENTIAL to be the passer that McNabb has become and about twice teh athletic ability Vick brings (because of the danger of the pass).

That makes for one scary combination.
We agree and disagree. They both run, but Vick runs because he has to, Young runs because he can - he has a choice to run or pass and when he does run it is with control. Tthat is something Vick cannot or does not do.

broncogary
01-05-2006, 08:51 PM
And Young has improved tremendously in the last year and a half. You may not like his release, but its an extremely quick release, unlike Elway's full motion.

TheDave
01-05-2006, 09:37 PM
another big difference between Young and Vick is accuracy. Young had a 65% completion percentage...I don't believe Vicks was much over 50% (in college). 6'5" 235lbs, good arm, accurate passer, excellent pocket awareness, clutch performer, team leader, great scrambler, and can run like the wind. Not sure what there is not to like?

C.J.
01-05-2006, 09:42 PM
You shouldn't be sold on any quarterback coming out from the draft.

If everyone knew which QBs would become great NFL players, then Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Tim Couch wouldn't be guilty of highway robbery.

I don't see how anyone can be sold on anybody, because even the highest paid general managers don't know who is going to translate from college to pro well.

Some quarterbacks have underwhelming physical attributes and become great quarterbacks like Tom Brady. Other quarterbacks have amazing physical attributes and also become great quarterbacks like John Elway. Then you have guys like Ken Dorsey who fit the Tom Brady mold yet they completely fall flat on their face, while super athletes like Jim Druckenmiller fade into oblivion.

yavoon
01-05-2006, 10:01 PM
You shouldn't be sold on any quarterback coming out from the draft.

If everyone knew which QBs would become great NFL players, then Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith and Tim Couch wouldn't be guilty of highway robbery.

I don't see how anyone can be sold on anybody, because even the highest paid general managers don't know who is going to translate from college to pro well.

Some quarterbacks have underwhelming physical attributes and become great quarterbacks like Tom Brady. Other quarterbacks have amazing physical attributes and also become great quarterbacks like John Elway. Then you have guys like Ken Dorsey who fit the Tom Brady mold yet they completely fall flat on their face, while super athletes like Jim Druckenmiller fade into oblivion.

dont hate on dorsey too much, he'll never start but he'soutperforming alex smith, by a lot.

epicSocialism4tw
01-05-2006, 10:44 PM
another big difference between Young and Vick is accuracy. Young had a 65% completion percentage...I don't believe Vicks was much over 50% (in college). 6'5" 235lbs, good arm, accurate passer, excellent pocket awareness, clutch performer, team leader, great scrambler, and can run like the wind. Not sure what there is not to like?

The guy has an extraordinary frame, height, strength, big-game composure, win-at-all-cost attitude, accuracy, intuition, reads and computes angles extremely well (in a class by himself), has good touch on his throws, etc..etc...

I havent seen an all-around prospect like him since the #7.

You cant dismiss his game in the Rose Bowl. It's a microcosm of what his career has looked like. He's performed very well as a starter for years. He's been a great crunch time player. Many of you that dont get to see him play often are missing out on his consistency. He's been playing like this for two years.

TDmvp
01-06-2006, 03:57 AM
By number 7 i hope you mean Vick

DrFate
01-06-2006, 05:44 AM
I don't like the way Young throws the ball. Back foot, side arm, etc. He clearly has ability and if the coaches/players are truthful he has all the leadership skills you want. I see him as a project as an NFL QB, like a McNair. He needs somebody to teach him how to set up and throw the ball like an NFL QB.

So in my book he is a project. If he learns to throw he might be a Culpepper-Vick hybrid (which would be scary).

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 06:13 AM
that's exactly it DrFate, he is a project with a HUGE upside...POSSIBLY

no one knows if his style will translate to the NFL where guys are just as big and fast as him

It's not like VY beat USC with his arm, sure he had a bunch of yards, but his TE made some great catches to make him look good sometimes...that's the thing about VY this year, he had a great TE catching everything, which improves his accuracy b/c he doesn't throw downfield as much

I don't think he had a pass longer than 19 yards in the game the other night...which is ok, but c'mon, it's not like he was flinging it all over the place

He won with his legs first, arm a distant second, which is something you can't do with a huge success in the NFL.

If I'm Houston I'm taking him b/c of the ticket/fan factor, they need to win back their fans and maybe they can trade Carr for some olineman and draftpicks.

but for people to come out and say he is a sure thing in the NFL just are wrong right now...b/c we dont know

running QBs generally don't have long careers in the NFL...sure Steve Young you say, but he didn't start winning big time until he learned to throw first

Broncoman13
01-06-2006, 06:15 AM
Sounds like your basing your judgement on one game. He is capable of throwing off his back foot, but this year he's thrown with a lot more consistency and that is mainly b/c he's learned to set up and throw. Several people talk about his delivery and say that NFL DL will knock too many passes down. He stands at 6'5 and throws about 3/4's. Jake stands at 6'2 and throws a little bit higher... both of them release at about the same point. At any rate, with our system (and likely the Texans system if Kubes takes the job) the passing lanes are normally clear and a lot of times the QB is rolling out and doesn't have to worry about open lanes anyhow. Besides that, how often do you see Jake get passes knocked down. Maybe once a game... if that. How bout Vick? Hell, Flutie was able to survive in the league, there's no reason to question whether a 6'5 QB can... it's nitpicking really!

You can find something wrong with virtually every single college player that goes into the NFL.

Peyton- Couldn't win the big game when the lights were on him.
Carson- One year wonder. Had all the physical tools in the world, but couldn't put them together.
Alex Smith- Level of comp, size, age.
Aaron Rogers- Size, mechanics, strength

The list goes on and on, McNabb, Culpepper, and even Rothlisberger had question marks coming into the league.

Reggie Bush and Lendale White will have question marks as well. They'll still be first round picks and in the case of Reggie, will be a top 3 pick! Oh my god, somebody with question marks is going to be a top 3 pick... it can't be!

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 06:17 AM
I don't think anyone is saying he can't play in the NFL oskie, but damn, it's getting a little crazy all this "vincesanity"

People are already carving his bust in Canton

at least you TX homers are

Broncoman13
01-06-2006, 06:47 AM
that's exactly it DrFate, he is a project with a HUGE upside...POSSIBLY

no one knows if his style will translate to the NFL where guys are just as big and fast as him

Who's just as big and fast as him? You aren't going to find too many LB's that are 235 lbs and run in the 4.4's. Nor will you find too many safeties or CB's that match his size. I can't think of too many DE's that run in the 4.4 range so I think he's probably safe there. Obviously he'll have to make adjustments, but saying that nobody knows if his style will transfer or not..... I KNOW DAMNIT!

It's not like VY beat USC with his arm, sure he had a bunch of yards, but his TE made some great catches to make him look good sometimes...that's the thing about VY this year, he had a great TE catching everything, which improves his accuracy b/c he doesn't throw downfield as much

That's BS and you know it. His TE slipped on a couple of passes and had to dive for what were well thrown balls. If VY didn't go down field that much how did Pittman end up with a 20+ ypc avg? I'll fill you in, he wasn't catching 3 yard passes and running for 20 yards, he was catching the ball downfield. VY had passes over 40 yards in 9 games this year! You didn't see him go down field vs USC so you automatically point that out. Truth is he's actually a very accurate down field passer. And, to top it all off he's doing it with a pair of sophmores that are still learning the position. It's not like he was throwing to Steve Smith and Jarrett. Pittman and Sweed. Also please note that of VY's 26 passing TD's only 5 of them went to David Thomas. 2 of them were in the opener, so in 13 other games DT only had 3 TD's. I think you're being a little unfair saying that his TE is his savior... but on the flip side of that coin, atleast he knows to use his TE and is capable of making that 2nd or 3rd progression!

I don't think he had a pass longer than 19 yards in the game the other night...which is ok, but c'mon, it's not like he was flinging it all over the place.

Not sure he needed to go down field. His WR's are still learning the position and it probably wasn't in the game plan. I didn't see Reggie Bush return a punt or kickoff for a TD either... must mean he's not capable vs a good team? Yawn.

He won with his legs first, arm a distant second, which is something you can't do with a huge success in the NFL.

In this game he did win with his legs. I'm not sure he could have won any other way. What exactly is wrong with him using his legs anyhow? That's like saying that Reggie ran well b/c of his moves, take away his moves and he wouldn't have done so well. Or Lendale ran well b/c of his power, take away his power and he wouldn't have done so well. Why is it that VY won't have huge success in the NFL with his legs? B/c guys like Vick, Culpepper, and McNabb can't run either? VY is a more athletic, bigger, stronger version of Donovan McNabb. McNabb is a top 5 QB in the league when healthy. IMO, that's a franchise player!

If I'm Houston I'm taking him b/c of the ticket/fan factor, they need to win back their fans and maybe they can trade Carr for some olineman and draftpicks.

If I'm Houston I'm taking him for several reasons... the ones you listed are true in any case, but he'll also give them a great chance to win and help minimize any other shortcomings they have on offense (line).

but for people to come out and say he is a sure thing in the NFL just are wrong right now...b/c we dont know.

You can't say he's 100% a sure thing. That is true. I'd say he's more of a sure thing right now than Leinart, Alex Smith, Philip Rivers, or Eli Manning are/were coming out of college!

running QBs generally don't have long careers in the NFL...sure Steve Young you say, but he didn't start winning big time until he learned to throw first

John Elway was a running QB... seems like he did okay. VY does look to throw first. You're pointing out one game and saying he just runs and that's it. IMO he was just taking advantage of what they were giving him. Had USC made adjustments like A&M did then he would have passed the ball more instead of running it. Put it to you this way, when they were going down for the game winning TD I was screaming at the TV when he threw the ball to Sweed in the corner on 1st down, and then over the middle to Sweed again on 3rd down. He was killing USC by running the ball... why pass?

Since nobody has been able to really identify VY's shortcomings I'll go ahead and point them out. He has a very strong arm, but he use it and control it at the same time. He takes a lot off of his passes to increase his accuracy. If any of you have the OU game go back and watch it. Just before the half he threw deep down the right sideline to Billy Pittman. That throw is the epitomy of VY. He lobbed it and put a lot of air under it b/c he would have blown it had he put some mustard on the pass. In that case he was okay and got away with it b/c Pittman was wide open. In the NFL he'll have to learn how to use his full arm strength and find that same accuracy as he has now with taking something off of the ball. Personally I think he can do it. Coaching, and a full time set of reps and practice will make him a better QB, but right now he has avg arm strength with just above accuracy. If coaches can coach him up and get him to use that full arm strength to go along with his current accuracy he'll be just fine. Taking something off the ball won't work in the NFL though! For what it's worth, in HS I saw VY throw the ball about 65 yards in the air. Now I realize we're not talking earth shattering #'s here but that was as a 17 or 18 year old kid. I'm sure his arm is stronger now.

TDmvp
01-06-2006, 06:51 AM
Thread Date Posted By Comment
Just not sure im sold on... 01-06-2006 05:26 AM OSKIE No dipshiit he means Elway and the comparison is right on Que!!!

OOOooooo im a dip$hit .... thats original ...

here ill stoop to name calling and being a 12 year old .seems to be all most of you here understand . To make a point you have to be rude pieces of garbage in the process . Is it all your IQ allows ? is it the only way you feel like you win ?? internet tough guy i presume ...

If you think this kid looks anywhere near as ready for the NFL game as John did your a complete non football understanding moron , period ....

Broncoman13
01-06-2006, 07:00 AM
Okay, that's me... I'm sure you've watched all of 2 games from VY and probably zero from Elway..... you must know it all!

It's funny that some of the more knowledgable media personnel in the business make the same comparison. It's funny that guys like Ronnie Lott and Rodney Pete look at VY and say he's better than their own USC QB! It's funny that people outside of Texas look at VY as a POS. I hope he stays in Texas and goes to the Texans. He's gonna be a special player for years and years and years!

Hotrod
01-06-2006, 07:01 AM
I don't think anyone is saying he can't play in the NFL oskie, but damn, it's getting a little crazy all this "vincesanity"

People are already carving his bust in Canton

at least you TX homers are

LOL "vincesanity" Ha!

One reason I see him as a future bust is hes a run first throw second qb. That usually does not cut it in the NFL. Now if he lands in the right place with the right people he might pan out. The key very well might be where he ends up and who his mentor/coachs are.

Billy Clyde Puckett
01-06-2006, 07:03 AM
I think Young has tremendous talent. My biggest problem with him and I have watched about 3/4 of the Texas games the last 2 years, is that he tends to lose focus at times. He will drop snaps, let his arm drop down and make a bad pass, force the ball or just start free lancing when he feels bored. He sometimes wants to make a simple play look spectacular. These are all very correctible things that will improve if he is motivated to accept coaching. Again, I am being picky, but I do think it would be a tremendous benefit to his career if he stayed at Texas another year or was put in a situation where he did not have to be a super hero on day one.

Broncoman13
01-06-2006, 07:20 AM
I agree with that... in fact I think you can look at the # of Texas fumbles as evidence of that. The thing that stands out about VY though is how much he's matured over the past three years. As a freshman he was a RB playing QB. As a sophmore his passing game came along a little. Not to the point where you could call him a passing QB though. This year he threw for nearly 2800 yards and 26 TD's. He's consistenly got better and better. Another year in college would certainly help him to become a better passer, but I think he can learn more by going to the NFL. To call him a run first QB right now though... that's just not true. Run first QB's don't make progressions or try to throw the ball into triple coverage...which VY is known to do. As with any QB (see Jake here) he's needs to get better with his decision making. If anything, you could say there are times that he makes poor decisions and throws the ball when he should have just tucked it in and run.

26 TD's and his best WR is a sophmore. I think his passing #'s would have been off the charts had he been throwing to the likes of Roy Williams, Sloan Thomas, and BJ Johnson for these past three years!

RaiderH8r
01-06-2006, 08:11 AM
The kid needs to make the jump. There is NOTHING he can do to improve upon his status as an NFL prospect. He has shortcomings to be sure, but his arm is strong enough although his release is spotty. Any team that gets him will utilize his mobility. He throws well on the run and is tough to bring down. Moving him laterally in the pocket will mitigate his low release point and create passing lanes. His shortcomings will be when he is on a crappy team, which is almost assured to begin with, he will try to carry the club like he always has. In the NFL it will be tough to do and he'll force plays and make mistakes. Get a decent roster around him and he'll blossom. I'm bullish on the kid and don't tell me for a second that if he were plugged into the Broncos roster he wouldn't be a star. Not saying we should make a move for him, but our offensive scheme is perfect for his talents. Kubes to Houston? Look for VY to be a Texan. Houston needs either an entire OL, or a QB who can scramble for his life. Houston gets a running game working, trade Carr for OL or picks.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:12 AM
Doesnt' matter if you are sold on him or not we won't even come close to him.

He will be drafted with the third pick by the Titans if he comes out. McNair has privately been mentoring Young for years after watching him play and they have a close relationship.

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 08:15 AM
Doesnt' matter if you are sold on him or not we won't even come close to him.

He will be drafted with the third pick by the Titans if he comes out. McNair has privately been mentoring Young for years after watching him play and they have a close relationship.

you think Houston AND New Orleans passes on him?

Broncoman13
01-06-2006, 08:15 AM
That's if he lasts to Tennessee. I think the Texans will be in a very tough situation should VY decide to come out. Do you think the Saints pass on him???

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:17 AM
you think Houston AND New Orleans passes on him?

If the Titans think either will pick him they will trade up with Houston to make sure they get him.

RaiderH8r
01-06-2006, 08:17 AM
Doesnt' matter if you are sold on him or not we won't even come close to him.

He will be drafted with the third pick by the Titans if he comes out. McNair has privately been mentoring Young for years after watching him play and they have a close relationship.
I don't think we need him and he certainly wouldn't last that long. Had the Skins' tanked like they were supposed to it might be an issue.

But, should Kubes land the job in Houston, bringing his offensive playbook with him Young would be a solid fit in that scheme. And Carr's been running for his life up there, they need a mobile QB.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:18 AM
That's if he lasts to Tennessee. I think the Texans will be in a very tough situation should VY decide to come out. Do you think the Saints pass on him???

If Martz goes to NO like has been rumored then I think they will take Lienart.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:19 AM
I don't think we need him and he certainly wouldn't last that long. Had the Skins' tanked like they were supposed to it might be an issue.

But, should Kubes land the job in Houston, bringing his offensive playbook with him Young would be a solid fit in that scheme. And Carr's been running for his life up there, they need a mobile QB.

They need OL 10X more then they need a mobile quarterback. It's not like Carr is Bledsoe or anything, he has mobility but behind that offensive line you would never know.

TheDave
01-06-2006, 08:20 AM
I don't think we need him and he certainly wouldn't last that long. Had the Skins' tanked like they were supposed to it might be an issue.

But, should Kubes land the job in Houston, bringing his offensive playbook with him Young would be a solid fit in that scheme. And Carr's been running for his life up there, they need a mobile QB.

Not to mention the kid is a houston native... kind of a PR dream, and a new 3 year grace period.

Elway 4 Life
01-06-2006, 08:20 AM
ok ill get flamed for this but who cares .... its true and no one else seems to want to step away from the cool-aid and say it ... BUT its college ball ....

Yes i watched the game ,and wanted texas to win and VY put on a hell of a show VS a college D but iv heard this story all to many times . "THIS GUYS GOING TO OWN THE NFL" and FLOP ... im sorry but i just dont think the college style game which VY runs carries over to the NFL ... the run and shoot and option game "which VC is sorta one of a semi option QB" just dont work in NFL .

after the game lastnight i actually heard one of the 3 college game day guys call him the greatest college qb of all time ... and i actually laughed i mean come on ... one game and dudes joe montana ...

OR maybe he is the greatest COLLEGE qb of all time and nothing more if my college "style" qb dont work in the nfl holds true ... case in point ... Mike Vick ... "or if we want a run and shooter that didnt work in nfl david kleilner rodney pete"

i know this sounds harsh and all but after liven in cincy threw the 80s just because you was a world beater the college dont mean dick...

Ill say this ... VC has ice water pumping threw him and is all heart and that might of been one of the greatest single game showing for a qb of all time ...

but its just one game ... and one college game at that ...

The problem I have with this statement is that your making this statement on one game. He has had more than one game where he lit the field up. I think he has as good or better of a chance than leinart of doing something on the next level. I think he will be a very good QB in the NFL. It is unfair of you to compare him to Vick because he has a much bigger frame and is a hell of alot more accurate as a passer. I think Vince will need a year or two before he really shows us something but I think he'll be a very good QB.

TheDave
01-06-2006, 08:22 AM
They need OL 10X more then they need a mobile quarterback. It's not like Carr is Bledsoe or anything, he has mobility but behind that offensive line you would never know.

here is a good question... would you make a run at David Carr?

I don't know enough about him to make that call but he was the 1st pick of the draft and should have a ton of upside.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:24 AM
here is a good question... would you make a run at David Carr?

I don't know enough about him to make that call but he was the 1st pick of the draft and should have a ton of upside.

It depends how much they want. They need OL in a bad way and it's not like we have several to spare as we are extremely thin ourselves.

GSRelyea
01-06-2006, 08:25 AM
I don't think Vince Young will be anything special in the NFL. I would doubt New Orleans would take a chance on him, esp. after several years with Aaron Brooks. People compare him to Michael Vick.... is that really a complement? I would take Leinart or even Jay Cutler (Vandy) over Young in a heartbeat.

RaiderH8r
01-06-2006, 08:28 AM
Not to mention the kid is a houston native... kind of a PR dream, and a new 3 year grace period.
He would put butts in seats even with that landfill of a team.

TheDave
01-06-2006, 08:30 AM
It depends how much they want. They need OL in a bad way and it's not like we have several to spare as we are extremely thin ourselves.


Say it's 1a, again i don't know enough about the kid, but it is interesting to consider...Shanahan does seem to like these 1st round reclamation projects.

alright sorry about the hijack, back to VY

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:31 AM
I really really doubt the Texans will take a QB. Texans owner Bob McNair has given every indication he plans to pay Carr an $8 million bonus next month to extend his contract through 2008.

I also don't think they will take a RB since they have Domanick Davis, who is not all world but certainly very good in his own right. I think they will either trade down several spots or reach and take an offensive tackle in the first spot.

The Saints will take Lienart because as GSRelyea said they don't want another Aaron Brooks and Lienart fits more into Martz schemes then Young does.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:33 AM
Say it's 1a, again i don't know enough about the kid, but it is interesting to consider...Shanahan does seem to like these 1st round reclamation projects.

alright sorry about the hijack, back to VY

No for a first. Jake is a good QB and will be around for several years, we have no need to get a high priced backup although I would like a better one then BVP who is basically a poor white man's Vick who doesn't have the confidence to throw in an NFL game.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:42 AM
IMO it breaks down like this:

Houston trades their pick to the Jets.

Jets will take Bush with Curtis Martin bound for the retirement home.

NO will take Lienart. Assuming Martz goes to NO. The last thing they want is another possible Brooks.

Titans will take Young...basically a McNair clone who is worshipped like Elway in Denver.

Houston will take Ferguson....desperately needs to get some OL.

Packers will take either AJ Hawk or Mario Williams. The Fade will take whoever the Packers don't take...unfortunately I don't see how they can go any other way. I don't like this at all.

I think the 49'ers will take either Lindell White, DeAngelo Williams, or Vernon Davis. They need a playmaker on offense so I think DeAngelo and Vernon are the more likely picks.

Rock Chalk
01-06-2006, 08:45 AM
here is a good question... would you make a run at David Carr?

I don't know enough about him to make that call but he was the 1st pick of the draft and should have a ton of upside.
Carr would kick ass here.

Basically the same offensive system, just not implemented as well in Houston.

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 08:47 AM
I think if Houston passes on VY and they keep losing the PR nightmare will be a firestorm

VY is a houston legend

ludo21
01-06-2006, 08:49 AM
I think if Houston passes on VY and they keep losing the PR nightmare will be a firestorm

VY is a houston legend


yeah, but CArr can make all the throws. He is a good QB. No reason for the Texans to regress for another 2-3 years with Young (Well.......wait a minute, they already suck). But still Bush will be a stud and can play a variety of postions making him even more lethal.

I still think they should trade down to iinfuse talent into both Lines. Thats the only way they will truly improve.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:51 AM
I think if Houston passes on VY and they keep losing the PR nightmare will be a firestorm

VY is a houston legend

If they get any kind of an O-line their losing will come to an end.

If they grabbed Ferguson and another solid O-lineman in the draft (Scott in round 2 would solidify their tackle spots for years) and maybe a pickup in FA they will be greatly improved.

They plan on giving Carr an $8 million bonus next month to extend his contract through 2008. Plus they just gave Domanick Davis a new $21.1 million contract extension. They've got their QB and RB, hell WR too in Andre Johnson, they just need a half way decent line and Ferguson and Scott would do that.

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 08:53 AM
yeah, but CArr can make all the throws. He is a good QB. No reason for the Texans to regress for another 2-3 years with Young (Well.......wait a minute, they already suck). But still Bush will be a stud and can play a variety of postions making him even more lethal.

I still think they should trade down to iinfuse talent into both Lines. Thats the only way they will truly improve.

I agree with you

but sometimes teams make business decisions to get butts in the seats

so who knows

freak6
01-06-2006, 08:54 AM
I agree, they gotta trade down. I like Carr, he just needs time, not to develop, to fkn drop back!!

Rascal
01-06-2006, 08:55 AM
I agree with you

but sometimes teams make business decisions to get butts in the seats

so who knows

That is possible but if they give Carr an extension like has been rumored then I think they pass on him for sure, and with Dom getting an extension as well I think they pass on Bush as well.

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 09:01 AM
That is possible but if they give Carr an extension like has been rumored then I think they pass on him for sure, and with Dom getting an extension as well I think they pass on Bush as well.

if they don't give Carr the extension, then it is pretty obvious what they are going to do

Rascal
01-06-2006, 09:02 AM
if they don't give Carr the extension, then it is pretty obvious what they are going to do

true, and at which point I would offer our second for Carr.

XXXII&III
01-06-2006, 09:34 AM
I think the 49'ers will take either Lindell White, DeAngelo Williams, or Vernon Davis. They need a playmaker on offense so I think DeAngelo and Vernon are the more likely picks.

Rascall, Lendale White's a junior. Is he coming out for the draft? I hadn't heard... if this has been discussed, sorry.

freak6
01-06-2006, 09:40 AM
Why would we trade a 2nd round pick for a big name, huge salary, back up qb?

We need our picks for Olineman, a Safety etc...

Besides we got Bradlee...lmao

Mile High Shack
01-06-2006, 09:40 AM
Rascall, Lendale White's a junior. Is he coming out for the draft? I hadn't heard... if this has been discussed, sorry.

He hasn't said yeah or nay

who knows, he could be the #1 back taken next year, so he might stay

yavoon
01-06-2006, 09:41 AM
I think one thing that will hurt vince is how much less time he's gna have. it seems like he has played w/ a lot of pocket time so far, atleast he did against usc. where he could look to throw, look to run, pick a place to run, look to throw before he passed the line of scrimmage then continue running.

Kaylore
01-06-2006, 10:00 AM
Leinart would make a good West Coast offense style QB. His arm strength is average but he is great intermediate throws. This eliminates him as a good fit for any kind of Martz/Al Davis style team.

The Big E
01-06-2006, 10:00 AM
I think one thing that will hurt vince is how much less time he's gna have. it seems like he has played w/ a lot of pocket time so far, atleast he did against usc. where he could look to throw, look to run, pick a place to run, look to throw before he passed the line of scrimmage then continue running.
It is true he had all day long and wasn't playing a great defense. USC was especially vulnerable in the secondary, but there really weren't any throws going 25 yards down the field. He'll need to be able to do that, facing more pressure, in the NFL. I've only seen him play a few times so others would have a better idea about his arm strength and ability to throw under a heavy rush.

Kaylore
01-06-2006, 10:02 AM
It is true he had all day long and wasn't playing a great defense. USC was especially vulnerable in the secondary, but there really weren't any throws going 25 yards down the field. He'll need to be able to do that, facing more pressure, in the NFL. I've only seen him play a few times so others would have a better idea about his arm strength and ability to throw under a heavy rush.
I seem to recall two throws in the Championship game that went for 60 yards or so.

shakenbake
01-06-2006, 10:09 AM
I went to every home game, the game Vs OU the game Vs aTm and the conf. championship game this year. Trust me VY is the man. He will make an NFL team very happy. It isn't just what he does on the field, he challeges the guys around him to be better. Puts in the extra time to make himself better. Just look at the the last three years he has been at Texas. Every year he works on his game to make himself better. I dont see why that attitude would change when he gets to the NFL. He is a natural leader and the most critical positon to have leadership.

shakenbake
01-06-2006, 10:18 AM
He also has great pocket presence. I dont know how many times ive seen guys look like they have a clean shot at Vince only to watch him camly wait and then step away at the last moment to make a play. The guy is clutch

The Big E
01-06-2006, 10:33 AM
He also has great pocket presence. I dont know how many times ive seen guys look like they have a clean shot at Vince only to watch him camly wait and then step away at the last moment to make a play. The guy is clutch
You can't teach pocket presence and he definitely makes guys miss. He's so smooth I think guys underestimate what it's going to take to get to him, and then he just slips by and says "see ya'". I do hope he hits it big in the NFL because there are a lot of lame QB's out there and the league needs guys like VY to step in.

Elway 4 Life
01-06-2006, 11:10 AM
I agree with you

but sometimes teams make business decisions to get butts in the seats

so who knows

Winning more than 2 games a year will bring the fans in. If you win they will come.

Rascal
01-06-2006, 11:17 AM
Rascall, Lendale White's a junior. Is he coming out for the draft? I hadn't heard... if this has been discussed, sorry.

You are right I had just assumed he was coming out. In this RB class he could easily be #1 or slid to #3 as it is not near as strong as last year.

DrFate
01-06-2006, 11:23 AM
that's exactly it DrFate, he is a project with a HUGE upside...POSSIBLY

no one knows if his style will translate to the NFL where guys are just as big and fast as him

It's not like VY beat USC with his arm, sure he had a bunch of yards, but his TE made some great catches to make him look good sometimes...that's the thing about VY this year, he had a great TE catching everything, which improves his accuracy b/c he doesn't throw downfield as much

I don't think he had a pass longer than 19 yards in the game the other night...which is ok, but c'mon, it's not like he was flinging it all over the place

He won with his legs first, arm a distant second, which is something you can't do with a huge success in the NFL.

If I'm Houston I'm taking him b/c of the ticket/fan factor, they need to win back their fans and maybe they can trade Carr for some olineman and draftpicks.

but for people to come out and say he is a sure thing in the NFL just are wrong right now...b/c we dont know

running QBs generally don't have long careers in the NFL...sure Steve Young you say, but he didn't start winning big time until he learned to throw first

As usual you are right on, Mile High. :)

You can look at a college QB play a single series and tell if he knows how to throw the ball or not. And Young doesn't. He doesn't setup, he doesn't throw over the top, he doesn't follow through. So he isn't walking off the field of the Rose Bowl and into an NFL stadium. Leinart knows how to do that (I don't know that he has the physical skills to be an elite QB, but he knows how to setup and throw)

If he has the character we are told, and the work ethic, I think the answer is yes - he'll go high and become a star. But he needs to get a QB coach in the offseason and learn to take 3, 5, and 7 step drops, setup, and deliver like an NFL QB.

elsid13
01-06-2006, 01:00 PM
It depends how much they want. They need OL in a bad way and it's not like we have several to spare as we are extremely thin ourselves.


They also need defense and Pryce might enjoy Texas

Broncoman13
01-06-2006, 01:13 PM
As usual you are right on, Mile High. :)

You can look at a college QB play a single series and tell if he knows how to throw the ball or not. And Young doesn't. He doesn't setup, he doesn't throw over the top, he doesn't follow through. So he isn't walking off the field of the Rose Bowl and into an NFL stadium. Leinart knows how to do that (I don't know that he has the physical skills to be an elite QB, but he knows how to setup and throw)

If he has the character we are told, and the work ethic, I think the answer is yes - he'll go high and become a star. But he needs to get a QB coach in the offseason and learn to take 3, 5, and 7 step drops, setup, and deliver like an NFL QB.


He's been able to get by to this point without setting up. In the NFL is arm strength won't be anything more than above average and he'll have to learn to set up. Personally, a QB that leads the nation without good form is a dream come true. He's this good now, imagine how good he can be with some good coaching and the amount of reps he'll get in the NFL!

TDmvp
04-27-2009, 01:58 AM
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f244/rexspeedworthy/bump.gif



Since we are Bumping old threads to say HEY LOOK YOU WAS WRONG !!
I thought rehash this one and toot my own horn...

But some people compared VY to John Elway and Oskie went as far as to Neg repped me just for my opinion . :rofl:


Not trying to start a pissing contest , and I get along fine with Skillet and Oskie But I just So remember Taking it in the @$$ on this one when i posted it Hilarious! ...

Only to be vindicated ....
:strong: :strong: :strong:


The guy has an extraordinary frame, height, strength, big-game composure, win-at-all-cost attitude, accuracy, intuition, reads and computes angles extremely well (in a class by himself), has good touch on his throws, etc..etc...

I havent seen an all-around prospect like him since the #7.



By number 7 i hope you mean Vick

Rep Comment ...
01-06-2006 05:26 AM OSKIE No dipshiit he means Elway and the comparison is right on Que!!!


Okay, that's me... I'm sure you've watched all of 2 games from VY and probably zero from Elway..... you must know it all!

I hope he stays in Texas and goes to the Texans. He's gonna be a special player for years and years and years!


He's special alright ...
Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!

Karenin
04-27-2009, 08:49 AM
hahahaha.... it's funny how the biggest loudmouths on here are the same ones who were spouting off their wrong opinions like they were fact two years ago. two years from now, they are going to look just as dumb as they do now.

Kaylore
04-27-2009, 09:18 AM
Yeah I got this one wrong. It's a shame about Vince Young. A tons of talent and not a lot of maturity or toughness.

TheDave
04-27-2009, 09:29 AM
I don't get it?

He was the 3rd pick of the draft... Tenessee and several other teams spent millions scouting him and other players and came away with the opinion that he was worthy of the #3 pick... and a bunch of people here agreed with that opinion.

Isn't the point of message boards to voice your opinion?