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Bronco_Beerslug
12-29-2005, 09:56 AM
Iraq has shown the hubris of a geostrategy that welds the philosophy of the Leviathan to military and technological power

Richard Drayton
Wednesday December 28, 2005
The Guardian

The tragic irony of the 21st century is that just as faith in technology collapsed on the world's stock markets in 2000, it came to power in the White House and Pentagon. For the Project for a New American Century's ambition of "full-spectrum dominance" - in which its country could "fight and win multiple, simultaneous major-theatre wars" - was a monster borne up by the high tide of techno euphoria of the 1990s.

Ex-hippies talked of a wired age of Aquarius. The fall of the Berlin wall and the rise of the internet, we were told, had ushered in Adam Smith's dream of overflowing abundance, expanding liberty and perpetual peace. ***uyama speculated that history was over, leaving us just to hoard and spend. Technology meant a new paradigm of constant growth without inflation or recession.

But darker dreams surfaced in America's military universities. The theorists of the "revolution in military affairs" predicted that technology would lead to easy and perpetual US dominance of the world. Lieutenant Colonel Ralph Peters advised on "future warfare" at the Army War College - prophesying in 1997 a coming "age of constant conflict". Thomas Barnett at the Naval War College assisted Vice-Admiral Cebrowski in developing "network-centric warfare". General John Jumper of the air force predicted a planet easily mastered from air and space. American forces would win everywhere because they enjoyed what was unashamedly called the "God's-eye" view of satellites and GPS: the "global information grid". This hegemony would be welcomed as the cutting edge of human progress. Or at worst, the military geeks candidly explained, US power would simply terrify others into submitting to the stars and stripes.

Shock and Awe: Achieving Rapid Dominance - a key strategic document published in 1996 - aimed to understand how to destroy the "will to resist before, during and after battle". For Harlan Ullman of the National Defence University, its main author, the perfect example was the atom bomb at Hiroshima. But with or without such a weapon, one could create an illusion of unending strength and ruthlessness. Or one could deprive an enemy of the ability to communicate, observe and interact - a macro version of the sensory deprivation used on individuals - so as to create a "feeling of impotence". And one must always inflict brutal reprisals against those who resist. An alternative was the "decay and default" model, whereby a nation's will to resist collapsed through the "imposition of social breakdown".

All of this came to be applied in Iraq in 2003, and not merely in the March bombardment called "shock and awe". It has been usual to explain the chaos and looting in Baghdad, the destruction of infrastructure, ministries, museums and the national library and archives, as caused by a failure of Rumsfeld's planning. But the evidence is this was at least in part a mask for the destruction of the collective memory and modern state of a key Arab nation, and the manufacture of disorder to create a hunger for the occupier's supervision. As the Süddeutsche Zeitung reported in May 2003, US troops broke the locks of museums, ministries and universities and told looters: "Go in Ali Baba, it's all yours!"

For the American imperial strategists invested deeply in the belief that through spreading terror they could take power. Neoconservatives such as Paul Wolfowitz, Richard Perle and the recently indicted Lewis "Scooter" Libby, learned from Leo Strauss that a strong and wise minority of humans had to rule over the weak majority through deception and fear, rather than persuasion or compromise. They read Le Bon and Freud on the relationship of crowds to authority. But most of all they loved Hobbes's Leviathan. While Hobbes saw authority as free men's chosen solution to the imperfections of anarchy, his 21st century heirs seek to create the fear that led to submission. And technology would make it possible and beautiful.

On the logo of the Pentagon's Information Awareness Office, the motto is Scientia est potentia - knowledge is power . The IAO promised "total information awareness", an all-seeing eye spilling out a death-ray gaze over Eurasia. Congressional pressure led the IAO to close, but technospeak, half-digested political theory and megalomania still riddle US thinking. Barnett, in The Pentagon's New Map and Blueprint for Action, calls for a "systems administrator" force to be dispatched with the military, to "process" conquered countries. The G8 and a few others are the "Kantian core", writes Barnett, warming over the former Blair adviser Robert Cooper's poisonous guff from 2002; their job is to export their economy and politics by force to the unlucky "Hobbesian gap". Imperialism is imagined as an industrial technique to remake societies and cultures, with technology giving sanction to those who intervene.

The Afghanistan war of 2001 taught the wrong lessons. The US assumed this was the model of how a small, special forces-dominated campaign, using local proxies and calling in gunships or airstrikes, would sweep away opposition. But all Afghanistan showed was how an outside power could intervene in a finely balanced civil war. The one-eyed Mullah Omar's great escape on his motorbike was a warning that the God's-eye view can miss the human detail.

The problem for the US today is that Leviathan has shot his wad. Iraq revealed the hubris of the imperial geostrategy. One small nation can tie down a superpower. Air and space supremacy do not give command on the ground. People can't be terrorised into identification with America. The US has proved able to destroy massively - but not create, or even control. Afghanistan and Iraq lie in ruins, yet the occupiers cower behind concrete mountains.

The spin machine is on full tilt to represent Iraq as a success. Peters, in New Glory: Expanding America's Supremacy, asserts: "Our country is a force for good without precedent"; and Barnett, in Blueprint, says: "The US military is a force for global good that ... has no equal." Both offer ambitious plans for how the US is going to remake the third world in its image. There is a violent hysteria to the boasts. The narcissism of a decade earlier has given way to an extrovert rage at those who have resisted America's will since 2001. Both urge utter ruthlessness in crushing resistance. In November 2004, Peters told Fox News that in Falluja "the best outcome, frankly, is if they're all killed".

But he directs his real fury at France and Germany: "A haggard Circe, Europe dulled our senses and fooled us into believing in her attractions. But the dugs are dry in Germany and France. They deluded us into prolonging the affair long after our attentions should have turned to ... India, South Africa, Brazil."

While a good Kleinian therapist may be able to help Peters work through his weaning trauma, only America can cure its post 9/11 mixture of paranoia and megalomania. But Britain - and other allied states - can help. The US needs to discover, like a child that does not know its limits, that there is a world outside its body and desires, beyond even the reach of its toys, that suffers too.

· Dr Richard Drayton, a senior lecturer in history at Cambridge University, is the author of Nature's Government, a study of science, technology and imperialism
http://tinyurl.com/eyqus

bendog
12-29-2005, 12:19 PM
Yep, but I wonder if selling Iraq as a victory will sell with America. At best we will have a pro-Iran shiaa dominated state that gives a blind eye to what the Kurds are up to. I suspect it will, though that's hardly what the neocons promised.

elsid13
12-29-2005, 12:32 PM
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Ok this guy is full of crap, he doesn't understand what RMA or network centric warfare is about and is confusing military operations, stabilization efforts and neo-con political theory. Plus he takes one sentence of Barnett book and then misses the entire point. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Let point out some key facts:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
1 The military campaign in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 /><st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> was the fastest deadliest advance any military has every achieved. In many ways it echoes the Mongol advance in Ghanis Khan in both <st1:country-region><st1:place>China</st1:place></st1:country-region> and Khwarizam but 1000 X faster. We entirely destroyed country ability to defended itself in days not year or months that it would taken in the past. Our force are lighter, more lethally and more connected then before.<o:p></o:p>
2. Shock and Awe is the theory were massive force is able to paralyzed the military and political command structure it is not only thing to win a war. We never saw a true shock and awe because Bush order strikes to take out Saddam. This turn into a rolling strikes vs. one massive assault. But we were able to complete overwhelm the C2 function the <st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> had. Remember the old information minister saying <st1:country-region><st1:place>America</st1:place></st1:country-region> weren't <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City><st1:place>Baghdad</st1:place></st1:City>. <o:p></o:p>
3. Why we able to quickly win the war we failed to have enough troops on the ground for stabilization efforts. This was clearly Rumesfeld mistake, but the lesson was there from <st1:country-region><st1:place>Bosnia</st1:place></st1:country-region>. And SECDEF didn’t understand what his Army general were telling him.<o:p></o:p>
4. Barnett arguments in both his books are related to shrinking gap and expand the core, and US Military can play important role acting as both leviathan and system admin role (Strongly recommend you read both his books, since the important current DoD leadership viewpoints and ideas). And as people and countries are connected ideas and cultures begin to change, this is not bad thing. <o:p></o:p>
5. The idea that turn <st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> democrat and the rest of the <st1:place>Middle East</st1:place> will follow is not a bad idea, but it won’t happen over night.
6. The <st1:country-region><st1:place>United States</st1:place></st1:country-region> has force comments in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region>, but we still able to handle other regional conflicts anywhere in the world. There is no nation on earth that can stop us military.
7 Finally yes it easier to destroy but as bad as it is in <st1:country-region><st1:place>Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> (which is slowly improving, <st1:country-region><st1:place>Afghanistan</st1:place></st1:country-region> is better then it ever been.

bendog
12-29-2005, 01:20 PM
oh, yeah, a pro Iran Iraq is just groooovy.

-Slap-
12-29-2005, 01:37 PM
oh, yeah, a pro Iran Iraq is just groooovy.
They were killing each other pretty well there for a while, but both sides started running out of teenage boys.

bendog
12-29-2005, 02:25 PM
I saw Chalabi didn't even get elected to Parliment this time. I will always wonder whether he was an Iranian spy in the neocon camp, or whether the neocons were so desperate they just hooked up with that nutbag. But it is amazing to me that in their election we actually finished FOURTH. The shiaa theocrats and iranian allies, the kurds, the secular sunni (the baath) and our guy Allawi. I guess we should just be thankful John Kerry wasn't running the campiagn, or we might have finished behind the camalfIckers party too.

elsid13
12-29-2005, 02:49 PM
oh, yeah, a pro Iran Iraq is just groooovy.


If Mexico became political instable and violence threaten to creep into the Southern US what do you think our government do? Not saying that Iranian interest don't conflicts with current US national interests but I sometimes wonder why people forget to see the whole story.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 03:44 PM
Iraq has shown the hubris of a geostrategy that welds the philosophy of the Leviathan to military and technological power

It's staggering how the handful of loons who still support the disaster monkey continue to deny the evidence that's right in front of their faces, isn't it?

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 03:53 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/condi-devilgirl.jpg

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 04:01 PM
http://www.bartcop.com/lying-about-war.jpg

elsid13
12-29-2005, 04:04 PM
It's staggering how the handful of loons who still support the disaster monkey continue to deny the evidence that's right in front of their faces, isn't it?


sorry but I understand what you mean with that statement. Re read the article from that fool and tell me how you actually think the US military is incapable? That what he is saying. He attempting to argue that the failure to stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan show that US military is not the great power and shouldn't be feared.

Spider
12-29-2005, 04:25 PM
the failure isnt on the armed forces , the failure is on the leaders ....... I dont know what effect it will have if Iraq becomes another Iran , But I am sure Russia is happy as hell , as with China ....... but this could very well work out for those 2 countries and the amount of Oil Iraq has........ I sure hope wedidnt tip the balance in the favor of Russia and China ........ that wouldbe disaterous
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-07/03/content_456596.htm

Spider
12-29-2005, 04:26 PM
We are skating on thin ice here ..........

elsid13
12-29-2005, 04:30 PM
We are skating on thin ice here ..........


How???

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 04:31 PM
He attempting to argue that the failure to stabilize Iraq and Afghanistan show that US military is not the great power and shouldn't be feared.

That is the perception that is being created - thanks to the chickenhawk morons currently at the helm.

Spider
12-29-2005, 04:35 PM
How???
well Russia has Iran so far up their ásses , that if Putin makes a sudden move , noses will be broke , Iraq becomming like Iran opens the door for the Russians to enter Iraq , somthing Reagan faught hard against .......Now in the Mix of all this ,is the new found love between Russia and China ......If we get kicked out of Iraq , then Russia has a green light , and wedont have a legal leg to stand on........

elsid13
12-29-2005, 04:41 PM
That is the perception that is being created - thanks to the chickenhawk morons currently at the helm.


I hope are potential enemies are stupid enough to think that. And last paragraph of US being a two year that needs to be controlled is the piss poor argument. If he if worried about the world he should be making argument on who the West can solve the problems of poverty and oppressing that is arise in the Gap countries, the US is not the problem to the rule set.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 04:44 PM
When it comes to things like guerilla warfare, insurgencies, and invasions/occupations by foreign powers, the PNAC nutjobs driving the BushCo iraq policy obviously didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam and other historical events.

Wait a minute - those PNAC nutjobs all found a way to avoid Vietnam, didn't they?

elsid13
12-29-2005, 04:46 PM
well Russia has Iran so far up their ásses , that if Putin makes a sudden move , noses will be broke , Iraq becomming like Iran opens the door for the Russians to enter Iraq , somthing Reagan faught hard against .......Now in the Mix of all this ,is the new found love between Russia and China ......If we get kicked out of Iraq , then Russia has a green light , and wedont have a legal leg to stand on........

Russia is tied to Iran because of the potential business opportunities there, it is time to end the US embargo with Iran find ways to connect that country back to the rest of the world. I would propose that the US end the embargo and begin trading with Iran IF Iran recognize Israel. Russia doesn't not have the capability to dominate the Middle East like did during the Soviet Union Days.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 04:50 PM
I hope are potential enemies are stupid enough to think that.

To assume they are that stupid would be foolish and would underestimate them.

They see the way BushCo has gotten our military bogged down in another Vietnam-style quagmire in Iraq.

They see the way Bush's foolish misadventure in Iraq has drained our resources (human, military, and economic.)

They understand the concept of asymmetrical warfare.

Spider
12-29-2005, 04:53 PM
Russia is tied to Iran because of the potential business opportunities there, it is time to end the US embargo with Iran find ways to connect that country back to the rest of the world. I would propose that the US end the embargo and begin trading with Iran IF Iran recognize Israel. Russia doesn't not have the capability to dominate the Middle East like did during the Soviet Union Days.
Naw , nothing will be dominated , just the oppisit , Russia and China will come as friends , promising trade and power , mean while Russiaand China get the resources , we tried that once with Iran, the Shaw was a son of a Bítch but he was our son of a bítch , he was to be the American connection ,when the Shaw went down,the Americans turned to the house of Saud and Saddam ....... we usedSaddam asa puppet against Iran, who embrased Russia ...... long ugly history ...... My fear is China and Russia manipulating the oil Market ......

elsid13
12-29-2005, 04:54 PM
When it comes to things like guerilla warfare, insurgencies, and invasions/occupations by foreign powers, the PNAC nutjobs driving the BushCo iraq policy obviously didn't learn the lessons of Vietnam and other historical events.

Wait a minute - those PNAC nutjobs all found a way to avoid Vietnam, didn't they?

Classic insurgencies, which Iraq is, last historical about 8 years, the 4thGen Warfare advocates would argue that the Iraq could have been less if had enough boots on the ground to provided stabilization efforts after the military victory had occurred. This administration made many mistake when planned on the best case only.

But I think that Americans are to tied to their TV shows and want everything done and fixed in 50 minutes plus commercials

Spider
12-29-2005, 04:58 PM
Classic insurgencies, which Iraq is, last historical about 8 years, the 4thGen Warfare advocates would argue that the Iraq could have been less if had enough boots on the ground to provided stabilization efforts after the military victory had occurred. This administration made many mistake when planned on the best case only.

But I think that Americans are to tied to their TV shows and want everything done and fixed in 50 minutes plus commercials
Naw Bro it is more then that .... alot more ......Myself aswellasthe majority of Americans ,think Afghanistan was just and right , Iraq is seen as an optional war, that would have been paid back through Oil revenues ,we see our money going out , and no return on the investment , and then Iran comming into the picture .........

elsid13
12-29-2005, 05:04 PM
Naw , nothing will be dominated , just the oppisit , Russia and China will come as friends , promising trade and power , mean while Russiaand China get the resources , we tried that once with Iran, the Shaw was a son of a Bítch but he was our son of a bítch , he was to be the American connection ,when the Shaw went down,the Americans turned to the house of Saud and Saddam ....... we usedSaddam asa puppet against Iran, who embrased Russia ...... long ugly history ...... My fear is China and Russia manipulating the oil Market ......

If China unable to develop oil resources in South China Sea, will be more dependent on importing oil from the Middle East then the West. China will have to dance the same tune we do to OPEC. Russia has enough of own oil and natural gas reserves that doesn't need to worry about the Middle East. Russia does need capital to develop those resources. There is little chance that Russia or China will manipulate the oil markets. Price might go up but that because of market forces of supply and demand.

elsid13
12-29-2005, 05:07 PM
Naw Bro it is more then that .... alot more ......Myself aswellasthe majority of Americans ,think Afghanistan was just and right , Iraq is seen as an optional war, that would have been paid back through Oil revenues ,we see our money going out , and no return on the investment , and then Iran comming into the picture .........


I won't defend the current administration failure to clearly articulate reason for this conflict. They have done a piss poor job on convincing this country and rest of the world why this better world then having Saddam in power.

Spider
12-29-2005, 05:09 PM
If China unable to develop oil resources in South China Sea, will be more dependent on importing oil from the Middle East then the West. China will have to dance the same tune we do to OPEC. Russia has enough of own oil and natural gas reserves that doesn't need to worry about the Middle East. Russia does need capital to develop those resources. There is little chance that Russia or China will manipulate the oil markets. Price might go up but that because of market forces of supply and demand.
Yeah this isnt about China and Russias consumption , this is about manipulation , I shared the link http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-07/03/content_456596.htm, the ground work has begun , I wouldnt be the least bit suprised to see Russia doing to us , what we did to russia in Afghanistan ........not saying this will for sure happen , but alot of signs pointing to that senario

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 05:20 PM
...the 4thGen Warfare advocates would argue that the Iraq could have been less if had enough boots on the ground to provided stabilization efforts after the military victory had occurred. This administration made many mistake when planned on the best case only.

The general who warned Team Chimp that more boots on the ground would be needed was canned for his trouble because Team Chimp didn't want a quick and decisive victory followed by a proportionately quick American withdrawl from the region.

The Smirk & Snarl junta, as a proxy for the PNAC lunatics driving the policy, wanted to establish a permanent military presence in Iraq. This was envisioned long before 9/11 and before Smirk stole office.

In addition, the bush junta is ultimately just a proxy for the same special interests that profited from the Vietnam war.

These interests don't care about political objectives, winning or losing, etc., - they just want to make as much money as possible for as long as possible.

The longer Iraq can be dragged out, the better for them.

elsid13
12-29-2005, 05:24 PM
Spider I guess I'm missing the signs. In the end it usually comes down to consumption. China need oil and natural gas to keep it economy going, Russia need money to kick start it stalled economy going, and has natural resources China can use. China has money. Why is anyone surprised that they are become partners?

Spider
12-29-2005, 05:29 PM
Spider I guess I'm missing the signs. In the end it usually comes down to consumption. China need oil and natural gas to keep it economy going, Russia need money to kic start it stalled economy going, and has natural resources China can use. China has money. Why is anyone surprised that they are become partners?
No bro , China and Russia are doing military manuvers, but it is more then that, it all centers around the middle east ,just take a look @ the map ,oil , then take a look at the ottoman empire , tell me if you dont see it ........... messopotamia could be back verry soon

elsid13
12-29-2005, 05:32 PM
The general who warned Team Chimp that more boots on the ground would be needed was canned for his trouble because Team Chimp didn't want a quick and decisive victory followed by a proportionately quick American withdrawl from the region.



LABF take a step back from the edge. I don't agree with the way the current administration conduct itself, but I rather think that policy makers thought that this would quick victory and didn't whole plan the transition it would take to stabilize the country. Half the problem is Bush belief that we shouldn't be in the "nation building" business, remember his criticism of Clinton

elsid13
12-29-2005, 05:44 PM
No bro , China and Russia are doing military manuvers, but it is more then that, it all centers around the middle east ,just take a look @ the map ,oil , then take a look at the ottoman empire , tell me if you dont see it ........... messopotamia could be back verry soon

Spider the US is also doing military maneuvers with Russia and talking to China about officer exchanges and potential for joint maneuvers in the future. What you are seeing from China is attempt to integrate its economy with the Western World. I don't understand your reference to the Ottoman Empire. It is more likely countries of the Middle would be redraw into national ethnics groups then controlled by single government.

Spider
12-29-2005, 06:03 PM
Spider the US is also doing military maneuvers with Russia and talking to China about officer exchanges and potential for joint maneuvers in the future. What you are seeing from China is attempt to integrate its economy with the Western World. I don't understand your reference to the Ottoman Empire. It is more likely countries of the Middle would be redraw into national ethnics groups then controlled by single government.
LOL.....if you say so .......

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
12-29-2005, 06:50 PM
LABF take a step back from the edge. I don't agree with the way the current administration conduct itself, but I rather think that policy makers thought that this would quick victory and didn't whole plan the transition it would take to stabilize the country. Half the problem is Bush belief that we shouldn't be in the "nation building" business, remember his criticism of Clinton

There is ample evidence that the policy makers envisioned a permanent U.S. military presence in the region - just read the PNAC manifesto.

And the large number of huge, permanent military bases that have been built in Iraq since the outset of the war would bear this out also.

I don't think even the Chimpsters were so stupid as to believe that such an effort to establish a permanent military presence wouldn't be met with resistance.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
01-03-2006, 03:52 AM
http://www.bartcop.com/iran-xmas-present.jpg