How Did Vick Get Voted To The Pro Bowl??

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Anyone know?

[dbfan4life]

The rest of the QB's in the NFC suck worse than he does. In the NFC it's not wo had a good season but who didn't suck worse that the rest.

[ludo21]

The rest of the QB's in the NFC suck.


Ha!

[missingnumber7]

Its that little thing called ESPN and them only showing his highlights now that McNabb is injured and Dante too...its the minority vote.. Unfortunately Ron Mexico came in a distant 4th.

[broncosteven]

Not sure but Tag's was over heard saying recently that it burns when he pees. Coincidence? I think not!

[epicSocialism4tw]

I'll tell you how: ESPiN.

Heck, I would have put Manning in there before Ron Mexico.

[Finger Roll]

hasselback is the only qb in the nfc playing well.

[Alkazar]

He's one of the NFL's Golden boys, like Peyton....

[Circle Orange]

Because he's a walking stereotype, he RUNS AROUND and can't play the position.

But he's EXCITING!!!!! according to the experts. Besides, collecting Pro Bowls makes his overall career look better.

[errand]

Because the liberal media is desirous that a black QB is successful.......

[Hogan11]

Further evidence that the Pro Bowl is nothin but a joke.

[errand]

...amazingly, Mark Brunell who has 2,800 yards passing with 20 TD's and a mere 8 INTs was left off the roster.

[epicSocialism4tw]

...amazingly, Mark Brunell who has 2,800 yards passing with 20 TD's and a mere 8 INTs was left off the roster.

Good point. Brunell has had a solid year.

[Arkie]

Because the Pro Bowl is a popularity contest. Fans voted for Vick and more fans will watch the pro bowl.

[OrangeShadow]

brunell should of made it

[errand]

Further evidence that the Pro Bowl is nothin but a joke.

It was so much better when the fans weren't allowed to vote....

Tom Brady has the defending champs @ 8-5 and he's on the roster...meanwhile Jake has 16 TD's and only 6 INTs and Broncos clinch 3rd consecutive playoff berth.....gets no love outside of Denver fans.

Just as parents ruin Little League baseball....fans ruin Pro Bowl voting.

[MadCity]

The same way that Amare Stoudamire is beating out Elton Brand in the NBA all star voting.

As long as you allow the fans to vote the players in, the entire system will be a joke.

[Mile High Shack]

b/c he was on the Cover of Madden at one point

b/c he is featured on every single highlight of ESPN

b/c he was the #1 overall pick a few years ago

b/c people are enamored with a qb that can run for 10 exciting yards than just a regular pass for 10 yards

and mostly b/c ESPN keeps telling us that he is the greatest playmaker in the NFL right now

[Clockwork Orange]

183/337, 2136 yards. 13 TD, 12 INT. 54.3 completion %. 6.34 yards per attempt. Yikes.

It's a damn shame that Plummer's not in the NFC, he'd have had a spot nailed down easily.

[Clockwork Orange]

...meanwhile Jake has 16 TD's and only 6 INTs and Broncos clinch 3rd consecutive playoff berth.....

Correction, he's got 18 TD's this season. That brings his TD to INT ratio to a very impressive 3 to 1.

[errand]

Good point. Brunell has had a solid year.

...what's sad but true is that if Vick had put up Brunell-like numbers and was bypassed for a white guy with a 1-1 TD to INT ratio, Jesse Jackson would be holding a press conference screaming the voting was racist.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well, the fans only count for 1/3 of the vote so the coaches and players voted him as far as I can see. I just don't get it.

[Mile High Shack]

...what's sad but true is that if Vick had put up Brunell-like numbers and was bypassed for a white guy with a 1-1 TD to INT ratio, Jesse Jackson would be holding a press conference screaming the voting was racist.

not Jessee Jackson but Farakhan and Al Sharpton and Twaiana Brawley

[errand]

Correction, he's got 18 TD's this season. That brings his TD to INT ratio to a very impressive 3 to 1.

See...he's even playing better than I thought he was.

[OrangeShadow]

one things for sure

its a TRAVASHAMOCKERY!!!

[Arkie]

In the tally was a record 1.9 million mobile votes via Sprint wireless -- nearly 200 times the 10,000 mobile votes cast last year.

TOP 10 SPRINT WIRELESS VOTE-GETTERS
QB Peyton Manning, Colts
QB Michael Vick, Falcons
WR Marvin Harrison, Colts
RB Shaun Alexander, Seahawks
RB Edgerrin James, Colts
RB LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers
LB Brian Urlacher, Bears
QB Eli Manning, Giants
WR Chad Johnson, Bengals
QB Carson Palmer, Bengals

Vick should start for the NFC according to these fans.

[Clockwork Orange]

Vick should start for the NFC according to these fans.

Those sheep should watch a little more football and a lot less ESPN.

[Arkie]

Those sheep should watch a little more football and a lot less ESPN.

Yep. They are the ones making his jersy #1, his Fathead #1, his bobblehead #1, etc.

[Breck Bronc]

Naptown Snapperhead voted for him at least 1,000,000 times.

[Popps]

Vick is awful.

[The Big E]

Vick is awful.
Do you mean "Pro-Bowl QB" Vick? Man, it is just so wrong for him to get that accolade when there are probably 4 other guys in the AFC more deserving. Yet, we'll have to hear those words tied to his name. I don't dislike the guy, but no way is he deserving based upon his performance.

[Garcia Bronco]

Because he's the best QB in the nation.....:)

[GreatBronco16]

...what's sad but true is that if Vick had put up Brunell-like numbers and was bypassed for a white guy with a 1-1 TD to INT ratio, Jesse Jackson would be holding a press conference screaming the voting was racist.


It's a shame, but you are correct. If it was the other way around, the race card would certainly come into play.

Vick??? Wow, just wow.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Remember to add 534 yards rushing and a 5.9 ypc average plus 6 rushing TD's to Vick's numbers and his selection looks a little more reasonable. I like the guy.

I just remember he's still learning to overcome Dan Reeves.:laugh:

[FADERPROOF]

In the tally was a record 1.9 million mobile votes via Sprint wireless -- nearly 200 times the 10,000 mobile votes cast last year.

TOP 10 SPRINT WIRELESS VOTE-GETTERS
QB Peyton Manning, Colts
QB Michael Vick, Falcons
WR Marvin Harrison, Colts
RB Shaun Alexander, Seahawks
RB Edgerrin James, Colts
RB LaDainian Tomlinson, Chargers
LB Brian Urlacher, Bears
QB Eli Manning, Giants
WR Chad Johnson, Bengals
QB Carson Palmer, Bengals

Vick should start for the NFC according to these fans.

For all the Peyton manning hate, there seems to be a few out there that recognize his talent.

[watermock]

...what's sad but true is that if Vick had put up Brunell-like numbers and was bypassed for a white guy with a 1-1 TD to INT ratio, Jesse Jackson would be holding a press conference screaming the voting was racist.

That's because the NFL favors white QB's...remember that thread? The rules were changed to protect white QB?

[Bronco Bob]

I'll tell you how: ESPiN.

Heck, I would have put Manning in there before Ron Mexico.


Speaking of ESPN, they were joking around and saying the league ought to take
three AFC quarterbacks and play them in the Pro Bowl as NFC quarterbacks.
And Jake was one of the quartebacks they picked as sending over to the NFC.
So even ESPN doesn't have a very high regard for NFC quarterback.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Lots of Vick hate considering he ate our defense alive last year and almost single handedly beat us. Anyone remember that game? Vick makes mistakes and looks like he doesn't play the position as well as it appears he should at times but much like Elway the stats are deceiving for this guy. In fact his stats are comparable to John's at this stage in his career. I'd take him on my team any day. He's the one player in the NFL you cannot game plan for. He can beat you with his arm or his feet and go 80 on any play with either one. At the end of his career he'll be held in a lot higher esteem than he is now IMO.

[watermock]

keep the bearded lady on jake...I haven't shaved either...

[Clockwork Orange]

Lots of Vick hate considering he ate our defense alive last year and almost single handedly beat us. Anyone remember that game? Vick makes mistakes and looks like he doesn't play the position as well as it appears he should at times but much like Elway the stats are deceiving for this guy. In fact his stats are comparable to John's at this stage in his career. I'd take him on my team any day. He's the one player in the NFL you cannot game plan for. He can beat you with his arm or his feet and go 80 on any play with either one. At the end of his career he'll be held in a lot higher esteem than he is now IMO.

Spiffy. That doesn't change the fact that Mark Brunell deserves to be there over Ron Mexico.

[The Big E]

For all the Peyton manning hate, there seems to be a few out there that recognize his talent.
Hating him and recognizing his talent are two different things.

[Garcia Bronco]

Lots of Vick hate considering he ate our defense alive last year and almost single handedly beat us. Anyone remember that game? Vick makes mistakes and looks like he doesn't play the position as well as it appears he should at times but much like Elway the stats are deceiving for this guy. In fact his stats are comparable to John's at this stage in his career. I'd take him on my team any day. He's the one player in the NFL you cannot game plan for. He can beat you with his arm or his feet and go 80 on any play with either one. At the end of his career he'll be held in a lot higher esteem than he is now IMO.


Completely solid post.:coach:

[Clockwork Orange]

Chicago game planned for him pretty well.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Spiffy. That doesn't change the fact that Mark Brunell deserves to be there over Ron Mexico.
Perhaps. But you can make that argument for a lot of players on the pro bowl team. I'd take Vick over Brunell just based on what he does to keep DC's up late at night.

[Clockwork Orange]

Perhaps. But you can make that argument for a lot of players on the pro bowl team. I'd take Vick over Brunell just based on what he does to keep DC's up late at night.

You're missing the point. It's not about who scares defensive coordinators, or who you can't game plan for, or who sells more jersies, or who gets more hype. The Pro Bowl is about who's had the better season and in this case Brunell is clearly deserving over Vick.

[GreatBronco16]

Perhaps. But you can make that argument for a lot of players on the pro bowl team. I'd take Vick over Brunell just based on what he does to keep DC's up late at night.

And you can make the same argument that Plummers bootlegs keep the DCs up late at night also. I mean, it seems so hard for defenses to stop.

The only thing Vick has going for him is the Wow factor. He drops back, his line breaks down, he takes off and the crowd goes wow. Or oh shlt when he gets hurt from running. He needs to learn how to combine the two gifts he has. Strong arm and great mobility. Until then, I just don't see him as a good QB.

[GreatBronco16]

You're missing the point. It's not about who scares defensive coordinators, or who you can't game plan for, or who sells more jersies, or who gets more hype. The Pro Bowl is about who's had the better season and in this case Brunell is clearly deserving over Vick.

There is no question that Brunell is more deserving. I remember when the media was on him as being no better than a backup there in DC.

[footstepsfrom#27]

And you can make the same argument that Plummers bootlegs keep the DCs up late at night also. I mean, it seems so hard for defenses to stop.

The only thing Vick has going for him is the Wow factor. He drops back, his line breaks down, he takes off and the crowd goes wow. Or oh shlt when he gets hurt from running. He needs to learn how to combine the two gifts he has. Strong arm and great mobility. Until then, I just don't see him as a good QB.
As I said, his numbers are comparable to Elways as this stage of his career. If I got to pick between him or Brunell to put on my team I'd take Vick.

[footstepsfrom#27]

You're missing the point. It's not about who scares defensive coordinators, or who you can't game plan for, or who sells more jersies, or who gets more hype. The Pro Bowl is about who's had the better season and in this case Brunell is clearly deserving over Vick.
I don't think I mentioned jersey sales or hype...did I?

[broncofan]

Call me crazy...but I'm more interested in watching Brunell drop back and throw passes in the pro bowl than Vick.

[Clockwork Orange]

As I said, his numbers are comparable to Elways as this stage of his career. If I got to pick between him or Brunell to put on my team I'd take Vick.

OK, maybe I'm not being clear enough, this is about who deserves to go to the Pro Bowl. Not who you would build a franchise around, not who you want as your QB, not who's numbers compare to Elway's, but rather who has performed better this season.

Brunell is more deserving.

[GreatBronco16]

As I said, his numbers are comparable to Elways as this stage of his career. If I got to pick between him or Brunell to put on my team I'd take Vick.

We aren't talking about building a team around these two guys. We are talking about who is more deserving of a probowl spot for THIS YEAR. Who cares what Vicks numbers look like compared to Elways.

And don't ever mention Vick in the same breath of Elway ever again.thwack

[GreatBronco16]

Call me crazy...but I'm more interested in watching Brunell drop back and throw passes in the pro bowl than Vick.

No shlt. Rep.

[footstepsfrom#27]

OK, maybe I'm not being clear enough, this is about who deserves to go to the Pro Bowl. Not who you would build a franchise around, not who you want as your QB, not who's numbers compare to Elway's, but rather who has performed better this season.

Brunell is more deserving.
I won't argue with that, but Vick seems to take a lot of pretty harsh criticism from people who imply he sucks since he's not Peyton Manning. Vick took the Falcocns to the conference championship last year in his first year under Mora. As I said, I think he gets more criticism and less credit than he deserves.

[GreatBronco16]

I won't argue with that, but Vick seems to take a lot of pretty harsh criticism from people who imply he sucks since he's not Peyton Manning. Vick took the Falcocns to the conference championship last year in his first year under Mora. As I said, I think he gets more criticism and less credit than he deserves.


Have you seen how much his contract is? I'm sorry, but if a QB is going to be making that kind of money, they better do something more than, drop back, scramble, and get hurt.

[footstepsfrom#27]

We aren't talking about building a team around these two guys. We are talking about who is more deserving of a probowl spot for THIS YEAR. Who cares what Vicks numbers look like compared to Elways.

And don't ever mention Vick in the same breath of Elway ever again.thwack
I didn't say he's Elway. I'm making the point that stats don't tell the whole story on either player. The comparison under those circumstances is justiifed.

[Gcver2ver3]

Because the liberal media is desirous that a black QB is successful.......



you sound like rush limbaugh....

i'm not so sure about that...infact i sometimes tend to think it is the exact opposite of what you're saying....

anyway...i'm black and me and all my friends that are black say the same thing that all my white friends say.......

VICK SUCKS!!!!


he's a terrible qb...he should play WR

[footstepsfrom#27]

Have you seen how much his contract is? I'm sorry, but if a QB is going to be making that kind of money, they better do something more than, drop back, scramble, and get hurt.
He also plays hurt, which makes him a tough SOB. He's missed only two starts the last two years.

[watermock]

Elway carried the team to five SB despite Reeves, and won two with Shanahan...that's one every three years, and he had to deal with a vincictive Reeves and a clueless Phillips during this time...

[GreatBronco16]

He also plays hurt, which makes him a tough SOB. He's missed only two starts the last two years.

Most all players play 'hurt'.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Most all players play 'hurt'.
Tatum Bell.

[GreatBronco16]

I didn't say he's Elway. I'm making the point that stats don't tell the whole story on either player. The comparison under those circumstances is justiifed.

But you are using Elway as a way to justify Vick for something that we aren't even talking about. We are talking about THIS year and the probowl. You're trying to make us think Vick is something better than he's not. Vick also has a talented offense around him while Elway didn't at the same stage in careers. But yet Elway did more with less.

Anyway, Vick doesn't deserve to be in the probowl over somebody that has out played him. That would be like putting Plummer in ahead of Manning THIS year.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Elway carried the team to five SB despite Reeves, and won two with Shanahan...that's one every three years, and he had to deal with a vincictive Reeves and a clueless Phillips during this time...
Well Vick's 25 so nobody knows what he'll do the rest of the way. He also had to overcome Reeves for 3 years.

Interestingly enough he went to the conference championship as soon as Reeves left.:yep:

[GreatBronco16]

Tatum Bell.

Hey, he said he was going to play, but ultimately it is up to the trainers and coaches. Bell wasn't a player that had to play in order for Denver to have a chance to win. Vick is considered the only QB that can get a win in Atlanta. Two different scenarios.

[footstepsfrom#27]

But you are using Elway as a way to justify Vick for something that we aren't even talking about. We are talking about THIS year and the probowl. You're trying to make us think Vick is something better than he's not. Vick also has a talented offense around him while Elway didn't at the same stage in careers. But yet Elway did more with less.

Anyway, Vick doesn't deserve to be in the probowl over somebody that has out played him. That would be like putting Plummer in ahead of Manning THIS year.
I haven't said Vick deserved the pro bowl. I've only responded to the idea he's a lousy QB. In any case, I don't think the "Vick to Brunell" comparison quite merits a "Plummer to Manning" reference. The gap's a bit wider in the latter case.

[DBroncos4life]

Vick blows.

[GreatBronco16]

I've only responded to the idea he's a lousy QB.


But he is a lousy QBNyah!

Just messing. I see your point though. So have a good one.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Vick blows.
Opinions as they say...

[DBroncos4life]

Opinions as they say...


5 years in the NFL, ZERO seasons with more then 3000 yards passing. Most tds in a season 16. Career rating 75.5, 53.8 comp %.

Name ONE other QB that made the pro bowl with 2100 yards passing 13tds and 12ints.

[footstepsfrom#27]

5 years in the NFL, ZERO seasons with more then 3000 yards passing. Most tds in a season 16. Career rating 75.5, 53.8 comp %.

Name ONE other QB that made the pro bowl with 2100 yards passing 13tds and 12ints.
Name one who rushed for over 900 yards in a single season.

I didn't say Vick was pro bowl worthy, but neither are Roy Williams and Larry Allen and I don't hear anybody harping on that.

I don't know how useful the QB rating is since Elway's career rating is 79.9 and he went to 5 Superbowls. As I said, it's not all about the stats with either of those guys. What Vick lacks through the air he often makes up for on the ground.

[GreatBronco16]

5 years in the NFL, ZERO seasons with more then 3000 yards passing. Most tds in a season 16. Career rating 75.5, 53.8 comp %.

Name ONE other QB that made the pro bowl with 2100 yards passing 13tds and 12ints.


Ummmm. Vick? Ha!

[GreatBronco16]

Name one who rushed for over 900 yards in a single season.

There was an interesting stat. Something about no QB has ever rushed for like 900+ yards and won a Super Bowl. Something along those lines. I'm not even sure if a QB has rushed for that many yards in a season and made the SB. Can't think if Cunningham did it or not.

[DBroncos4life]

Name one who rushed for over 900 yards in a single season.

I didn't say Vick was pro bowl worthy, but neither are Roy Williams and Larry Allen and I don't hear anybody harping on that.

I don't know how useful the QB rating is since Elway's career rating is 79.9 and he went to 5 Superbowls. As I said, it's not all about the stats with either of those guys. What Vick lacks through the air he often makes up for on the ground.


900 yards rushing huh? Thats good for a RB. And what Vick can do on the ground now he won't be able to do for long so I guess he might want to LEARN TO PASS!

[DBroncos4life]

man he had 120 attemps rushing that year, the most that Elway ever had in a season was 66. Vick is a fun player to watch but he isn't a good QB.

[footstepsfrom#27]

900 yards rushing huh? Thats good for a RB. And what Vick can do on the ground now he won't be able to do for long so I guess he might want to LEARN TO PASS!
Yea...at 30 he'll probably drop off to about 4.4 in the 40.:pfbbt:

[DBroncos4life]

Yea...at 30 he'll probably drop off to about 4.4 in the 40.:pfbbt:


I doubt it dude. I would be shocked if he last 5 more years playing like he does. He misses plays now because he gets roughed up. You will see more players bigger then him running just as fast as him...ala Pepper and Urlacher.

[footstepsfrom#27]

There was an interesting stat. Something about no QB has ever rushed for like 900+ yards and won a Super Bowl. Something along those lines. I'm not even sure if a QB has rushed for that many yards in a season and made the SB. Can't think if Cunningham did it or not.
Well since I believe the only other QB's to go over 900 yards rushing in one season were Bobby Douglas and Cunningham, I'd say the analogy is pretty silly. You might as well say that no QB who ever traveled on the space shuttle won the Superbowl. The skill set is to rare...and hence to small...to judge that as a factor. It sure doesn't exactly hurt a quarterback to be mobile in today's game though.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I doubt it dude. I would be shocked if he last 5 more years playing like he does. He misses plays now because he gets roughed up. You will see more players bigger then him running just as fast as him...ala Pepper and Urlacher.
No way Julius Peppers or Brian Urlacher are as fast as Michael Vick.

[DBroncos4life]

No way Julius Peppers or Brian Urlacher are as fast as Michael Vick.


they are fast enough to tackle him. Urlacher ****ed him up big time. Also DJ ran Vick down as well. They might not have the same 40 time as him but they can and do run him down.

[footstepsfrom#27]

they are fast enough to tackle him. Urlacher ****ed him up big time. Also DJ ran Vick down as well. They might not have the same 40 time as him but they can and do run him down.
Every player in the NFL gets run down. Angles of pursuit, the effect of stopping and starting, cutting back and losing speed, etc...that hardly speaks to Vick being ineffective in the future since he gets caught at times NOW. How fast are the NFL's fastest receivers at age 30? Maybe they're dropped slightly but they're still plenty fast enough to go deep.

Vick is faster than most receivers. Could he get hurt and lose his speed? Sure. Peyton Manning could tear up his shoulder and become just another passer too.

[-Slap-]

There was an interesting stat. Something about no QB has ever rushed for like 900+ yards and won a Super Bowl. Something along those lines. I'm not even sure if a QB has rushed for that many yards in a season and made the SB. Can't think if Cunningham did it or not.
Cunningham, Vick and Bobby Douglas are the only QBs with that distinction, so the statistic doesn't seem that surprising.

Some of the greatest rushing QBs in history never put up anywhere near 900 yards rushing in a single season.

Single season highs for some noted running quarterbacks:

Douglas - 968 - 1972
Cunningham - 942 - 1990
Vick - 902 - 2004
McNair - 674 - 1997
McNabb - 629 - 2000
Culpepper - 603 - 2002
Grogan* - 539 - 1978
Stewart** - 537 - 2001
Landry - 530 - 1971
Gannon - 529 - 2000
Rote*** - 523 - 1951
Trippi - 501 - 1951
Brunell - 480 - 1995
Flutie - 467 - 1999
Garcia - 414 - 2000
Layne**** - 411 - 1952
Tarkenton - 376 - 1966
Bradshaw - 346 - 1972
Staubach - 343 - 1971
Anderson - 320 - 1981
Elway - 304 - 1987
Zorn - 290 - 1978
Montana - 284 - 1983
Moon - 268 - 1989

* Grogan had 397 yards and 12 rushing TDs in 1978. I have never seen a QB run the bootleg down at the goalline more fearlessly.

** Stewart slashed his way to 476 yards and 11 rushing TDs in 1997 on his way to the AFC Championship Game and several Nike commercials.

*** Tobin Rote rushed for 398 yards and 11 TDs in 1956.

**** Bonus points to Layne for rushing for that many yards with such a prominent beer gut.

[errand]

Remember to add 534 yards rushing and a 5.9 ypc average plus 6 rushing TD's to Vick's numbers and his selection looks a little more reasonable. I like the guy.

I just remember he's still learning to overcome Dan Reeves.:laugh:


So what you're saying is he's still a run first, throw later kind of guy? He hasn't developed into a real QB that looks for someone other than Alge Crumpler?

Reeves has been gone for a couple of seasons now...and he didn't stunt Mike's development....Mike is stunting it by still doing his helter-skelter run around playground schtick.

[errand]

Lots of Vick hate considering he ate our defense alive last year and almost single handedly beat us. Anyone remember that game? Vick makes mistakes and looks like he doesn't play the position as well as it appears he should at times but much like Elway the stats are deceiving for this guy. In fact his stats are comparable to John's at this stage in his career. I'd take him on my team any day. He's the one player in the NFL you cannot game plan for. He can beat you with his arm or his feet and go 80 on any play with either one. At the end of his career he'll be held in a lot higher esteem than he is now IMO.

The bus stations are filled with guys who could "go 80 on any play"....I recall them saying the same things about Kordell Stewart. At least Kordell won a few playoff games.

BTW, the "one player that you cannot game plan for" has been held to 6 points and 3 points in two of his last 3 games.

[errand]

Perhaps. But you can make that argument for a lot of players on the pro bowl team. I'd take Vick over Brunell just based on what he does to keep DC's up late at night.

Mark Brunell has tossed 20 TD's and only 8 INT's....perhaps opposing DC's should be staying up late for him.

[errand]

I won't argue with that, but Vick seems to take a lot of pretty harsh criticism from people who imply he sucks since he's not Peyton Manning. Vick took the Falcocns to the conference championship last year in his first year under Mora. As I said, I think he gets more criticism and less credit than he deserves.

Then why did you spend a page full of posts doing exactly that?

BTW we're not down on him because he isn't Manning...we're down on him because he still looks like the guy Reeves drafted, and is on the pro bowl team and Mark Brunell who you just admitted is having the better season is not.

[errand]

you sound like rush limbaugh....

i'm not so sure about that...infact i sometimes tend to think it is the exact opposite of what you're saying....

anyway...i'm black and me and all my friends that are black say the same thing that all my white friends say.......

VICK SUCKS!!!!


he's a terrible qb...he should play WR

It is what Rush said....,

.....but it seems that due to ESPN showing Michael vick running for a 20 yard gain in Atlanta's 23-6 loss against Carolina....I think his statement actually has some merit.

[fontaine]

Vick is a fabulous playmaker, and no doubt about it, his physical skills directly relate to wins.

However, he's still pretty weak as a QB. As a playmaker, he's one of the best, but definitely not as a QB (at least from what I understand a QB is)

I think the Falcons made a big mistake giving up LT etc for Vick. LT runs better than Vick, is a better Wideout and from what I've seen is just as good a passer. The falcons should have just drafted LT and asked him to play QB just like they do now with Vick.

[errand]

Well Vick's 25 so nobody knows what he'll do the rest of the way. He also had to overcome Reeves for 3 years.

Interestingly enough he went to the conference championship as soon as Reeves left.:yep:

...and the Tampa Bay Bucs won a SB as soon as Dungy left....does that mean Dungy sucks as a coach?

[errand]

Name one who rushed for over 900 yards in a single season.

I didn't say Vick was pro bowl worthy, but neither are Roy Williams and Larry Allen and I don't hear anybody harping on that.

I don't know how useful the QB rating is since Elway's career rating is 79.9 and he went to 5 Superbowls. As I said, it's not all about the stats with either of those guys. What Vick lacks through the air he often makes up for on the ground.




The Pro Bowl is the NFL's all star game.....and it's top players in the respective season should be the ones who make it. Brunell on a less talented team has better numbers and has his team playing above their heads.....Vick on a more talented team is posting modest passing, and good running numbers and while his team is closer to the playoffs this year than Mark's is.....which team would you say underachieved this season? Atlanta or Washington?

[-Slap-]

The bus stations are filled with guys who could "go 80 on any play"....I recall them saying the same things about Kordell Stewart. At least Kordell won a few playoff games.
Michael Vick is 2-2 lifetime in the Playoffs.

[-Slap-]

Interestingly, Michael Vick won a Playoff game after his first season as a starting QB. It took the robotic Manning six years as a starter before he finally won in the Playoffs.

[Mile High Shack]

Vick is a fabulous playmaker, and no doubt about it, his physical skills directly relate to wins.

However, he's still pretty weak as a QB. As a playmaker, he's one of the best, but definitely not as a QB (at least from what I understand a QB is)

I think the Falcons made a big mistake giving up LT etc for Vick. LT runs better than Vick, is a better Wideout and from what I've seen is just as good a passer. The falcons should have just drafted LT and asked him to play QB just like they do now with Vick.

I really wish they would've

SD would be a much worse team w/o LT than with Vick

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He also plays hurt, which makes him a tough SOB. He's missed only two starts the last two years.
This is the worst qualification for Vick being good I've seen yet.
You forgot to add in the 12 starts he missed 2 years ago. I guess he ain't quite that "tough" after all.

[fontaine]

I really wish they would've

SD would be a much worse team w/o LT than with Vick

Didn't they also get Brees in that deal?

Regardless, I know I've bashed Vick for his QBing skills in the past but you know he's a gamer if he can take his team to Lambeu field in the playoffs and beat the Pack there like he did. Wasn't it the first time the Pack had been beaten at home in the playoffs with Favre?

[Mile High Shack]

Didn't they also get Brees in that deal?

Regardless, I know I've bashed Vick for his QBing skills in the past but you know he's a gamer if he can take his team to Lambeu field in the playoffs and beat the Pack there like he did. Wasn't it the first time the Pack had been beaten at home in the playoffs with Favre?

He might be a gamer, but I wouldn't want him as my QB if you gave me a choice between him and the other pro-bowl QBs

I'd take Delhome over Vick even

[fontaine]

He might be a gamer, but I wouldn't want him as my QB if you gave me a choice between him and the other pro-bowl QBs

I'd take Delhome over Vick even

Well, I'd take Hasselbeck over Vick.

Delhomme? I'm not so sure about. I think Shanahan would do an excellent job with both and to be honest, if Shanahan can turn Plummer's career around then I think he could do it with Vick.

[-Slap-]

I really wish they would've

SD would be a much worse team w/o LT than with Vick
I'm actually glad. I like watching LT so much that I think its cool he's in our division. I can't help but be a fan of the guy, divisional rivalry or not. Its especially entertaining seeing him tattoo the garbage defenses in Oakland and KC four times a year.

[-Slap-]

This is the worst qualification for Vick being good I've seen yet.
You forgot to add in the 12 starts he missed 2 years ago. I guess he ain't quite that "tough" after all.
Oh yeah, two years ago, when Vick missed most of the season and Atlanta went 5-11. His two healthy seasons, he took his team to the Playoffs and they're on the verge of going again this year.

At any point, does the fact that the guy simply wins football games ever factor into the equation for his detractors?

[enjolras]

At any point, does the fact that the guy simply wins football games ever factor into the equation for his detractors?

The question you have to ask is: Would they win MORE games if they had an actual QB under center? With the talent level Atlanta has.. I would think so.

[NaptownChief]

Why is Vick in the Pro Bowl? Maybe they want an AFC defensive back to get the game MVP with 3 INT's?

[Mile High Shack]

The question you have to ask is: Would they win MORE games if they had an actual QB under center? With the talent level Atlanta has.. I would think so.

have LT with Matt Schaub as QB

Atlanta might be pretty damn scary

of course they don't have a very good defense

[NaptownChief]

At any point, does the fact that the guy simply wins football games ever factor into the equation for his detractors?



It would for me if it were translating into beating good teams...Yet to beat a team with a winning record so far this season. I suppose having the talent to beat up on the Saints and Lions is better than the Doug Johnson's and Kurt Kitner's of the world that don't even have that but hardly anything overly impressive. If he had spent the last couple years in the AFC instead of the NFC we probably wouldn't ever hear about him "just winning games".

[Atlas]

Vick was voted in by players and coaches voting him in. They understand how dangerous he is when they have to prepare for him. He isn't a good passer but he makes plays and I imagine he gives coaches and players headaches when they have to prepare a defensive gameplan against him.

[Elway 4 Life]

I didn't say Vick was pro bowl worthy, but neither are Roy Williams and Larry Allen and I don't hear anybody harping on that.



I will be the one then. Roy and larry both should not have even been considered. Roy "toast" Williams is good in run support and truly should be a LB not a safety. Allen is old and made it on reputation alone. He does not deserve to be there. As far as Vick he may very well be able to get 900 yards rushing but he is a QB. Last time I checked QB's were known for there passing abilities which he is very weak in that category. Vick is hyped so much that they have to get him in there. They will sell more tix with him in there.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Oh yeah, two years ago, when Vick missed most of the season and Atlanta went 5-11. His two healthy seasons, he took his team to the Playoffs and they're on the verge of going again this year.

At any point, does the fact that the guy simply wins football games ever factor into the equation for his detractors?
Actually, aren't they on the verge of missing the playoffs? Looking at Vick's wins this year (all 8 of them) none are against a winning team.

[NaptownChief]

Actually, aren't they on the verge of missing the playoffs? Looking at Vick's wins this year (all 8 of them) none are against a winning team.


And the other side of that argument during their rotten year they didn't even have a remotely competent backup in there with Doug Johnson and Kurt Kitner. Those are guys who had zero experience and not even good enough to keep a 3rd string job in the league. Had they put in a quality NFL backup with game experience and it made that big of a difference then it would possibly warrant some respect but virtually all teams regardless of how good or bad would struggle when you have to put those type of turds under center.

Look at the 2003 Donks...They went 1-4 with Danny Kanell under center and 9-2 when he wasn't. And Kanell was a very experienced QB compared to Johnson and Kitner. Does that mean Jake Plummer is an all time great QB or just shows how tough it is for even good teams to win with really bad replacement QB's under center? I think we all know the answer.

[-Slap-]

Vick was voted in by players and coaches voting him in. They understand how dangerous he is when they have to prepare for him. He isn't a good passer but he makes plays and I imagine he gives coaches and players headaches when they have to prepare a defensive gameplan against him.
Correct.

[-Slap-]

My favorite Pro Bowl quarterback was Mike Boryla.

Mike Boryla
Quarterback
Born: 1951
1-time Pro Bowler: 1975


+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1974 phi | 4 | 60 102 58.8 580 5.7 5 3 | 6 25 0 |
| 1975 phi | 7 | 87 166 52.4 996 6.0 6 12 | 8 33 0 |
| 1976 phi | 11 | 123 246 50.0 1247 5.1 9 14 | 29 166 2 |
| 1978 tam | 1 | 2 5 40.0 15 3.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 23 | 272 519 52.4 2838 5.5 20 29 | 43 224 2 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

That's right, 966 yards passing and a 6/12 TD/INT ratio earned a Pro Bowl invitation in 1975.

The Pro Bowl wasn't always played in Hawaii every year and getting a good quarterback to play usually required threatening his life at gunpoint. I think Hart and Tarkenton were hurt and Staubach, Manning and the rest begged off with highly questionable injuries.

http://www.concretefield.com/uploads/Fan_Since_64/Boryla,Mike1.jpg

The best part of the story is that Mike Boryla threw two touchdown passes and led the NFC to a come from behind victory.

Unfortunately they screwed him and gave the MVP Award to Billy White Shoes Johnson a taking a punt back 90 yards or something.

[NaptownChief]

My favorite Pro Bowl quarterback was Mike Boryla.


That's right, 966 yards passing and a 6/12 TD/INT ratio earned a Pro Bowl invitation in 1975.





Good gawd those are Bob Avellini numbers.

[-Slap-]

Good gawd those are Bob Avellini numbers.
Roman Gabriel was benched for that bum.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

My favorite Pro Bowl quarterback was Mike Boryla.


Knew Mike from Regis.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So what you're saying is he's still a run first, throw later kind of guy? He hasn't developed into a real QB that looks for someone other than Alge Crumpler?
You mean kind of like Jake Plummer who only looks for Rod Smith? Brian Finneran has 45 catches to 58 for Crumpler. In comparison Plummer's #2 receiver is Putz with 35 while Lelie has 34. So I guess that means Plummer's not a real QB either since he mostly goes to Smith?
Reeves has been gone for a couple of seasons now...and he didn't stunt Mike's development....Mike is stunting it by still doing his helter-skelter run around playground schtick.
The effects of being Reeved take a while to overcome. I guess you'd like Vick to stay in the pocket and try to be Manning? Do you prefer Plummer do that also? I guess not.
The bus stations are filled with guys who could "go 80 on any play"....I recall them saying the same things about Kordell Stewart. At least Kordell won a few playoff games.
Put down the crack pipe. Stewart won a grand total of 2 playoff games in his career. Vick has already won 2 including a win over the 12-4 Packers IN LAMBEAU and a brilliant performance against the Rams when he ran wild and they scored 47 points. He's only 25 and he's already equalled Stewart's playoff wins.
BTW, the "one player that you cannot game plan for" has been held to 6 points and 3 points in two of his last 3 games.
Chicago and Carolina rank #1 and #3 in the NFL in defense respectively.
BTW we're not down on him because he isn't Manning...we're down on him because he still looks like the guy Reeves drafted, and is on the pro bowl team and Mark Brunell who you just admitted is having the better season is not.
There's a shock...a guy Reeves drafted still looks the same as when he drafted him...knock me down with a feather. Who cares about Mark Brunell and his pro bowl status? He's a freaking Redskin not a Bronco. I don't hear you b****ing about any other selections like Larry Allen or Roy Williams. Do you think they deserved it?
The Pro Bowl is the NFL's all star game.....and it's top players in the respective season should be the ones who make it. Brunell on a less talented team has better numbers and has his team playing above their heads.....Vick on a more talented team is posting modest passing, and good running numbers and while his team is closer to the playoffs this year than Mark's is.....which team would you say underachieved this season? Atlanta or Washington?
The Pro Bowl is a Hawaian vacation for guys who won a popularity contest with the fans. Players and coaches deservedly get to have 2/3 of the say on who goes but fans influence the margins after that a whole lot so I frankly don't care about the Pro Bowl. As for the Falcons vs the Skins...I'd say it's a tossup The Falcons lost to the Seahawks, Patriots, Bucs, Panthers and Bears to go with their upset loss to the Packers. Those teams have a combined winning percentage of .630 and the Skins lost to teams with a combined .622 winning percentage. Washington has as much talent as the Falcons do IMO so I don't see much difference between their seasons since they both have the same record.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Actually, aren't they on the verge of missing the playoffs? Looking at Vick's wins this year (all 8 of them) none are against a winning team.
The Vikings are 8-6.

[Gcver2ver3]

It is what Rush said....,

.....but it seems that due to ESPN showing Michael vick running for a 20 yard gain in Atlanta's 23-6 loss against Carolina....I think his statement actually has some merit.


well...i hear ya...but that's what highlights are for...to show the "highlights" of the game...a qb running for 20 yds or more is worth taking another look at

in the same highlight reel they also showed vick get crushed by urlacher...

i disagree with limbaugh...at the most maybe a small percentage do what he thinks they're doing but i don't think so....all qb's white and black take criticism when playing poorly....

[footstepsfrom#27]

It would for me if it were translating into beating good teams...Yet to beat a team with a winning record so far this season. I suppose having the talent to beat up on the Saints and Lions is better than the Doug Johnson's and Kurt Kitner's of the world that don't even have that but hardly anything overly impressive. If he had spent the last couple years in the AFC instead of the NFC we probably wouldn't ever hear about him "just winning games".
Give me Vick over TrINT all day.

[The Big E]

If we're simply talking this year's Pro Bowl, Vick didn't have what would normally be defined as a Pro Bowl year. However, nobody else in that conference really jumps out at me, either. Hasselbeck seems to be the only one truly worthy.

As far as Vick in general, I think he gets dissed more than he deserves. Just because he doesn't fit into some neat little QB compartment doesn't mean that the guy isn't effective.

I think it's hurt them this year with him trying to prove he can be effective from the pocket. He's doing teams a favor when he does that. He needs to be let loose, be unpredictable, and make D-coordinators crap their pants. Is he more likely to get hurt? Obviously. But that's where he's at his best and I think they need to go with it and let the chips fall where they may. But what do I know, I just sit on the couch with a remote.

[REB]

Over the years it really has become more of a popularity contest so I don't pay to much attention to it anymore. Champ, Lynch, and Wilson said it's nice and all but there eyes are on the grand prize and I'm glad to hear it.

[footstepsfrom#27]

If we're simply talking this year's Pro Bowl, Vick didn't have what would normally be defined as a Pro Bowl year. However, nobody else in that conference really jumps out at me, either. Hasselbeck seems to be the only one truly worthy.

As far as Vick in general, I think he gets dissed more than he deserves. Just because he doesn't fit into some neat little QB compartment doesn't mean that the guy isn't effective.

I think it's hurt them this year with him trying to prove he can be effective from the pocket. He's doing teams a favor when he does that. He needs to be let loose, be unpredictable, and make D-coordinators crap their pants. Is he more likely to get hurt? Obviously. But that's where he's at his best and I think they need to go with it and let the chips fall where they may. But what do I know, I just sit on the couch with a remote.
Exactly...:approve:

[Lidderer]

it seems hasselbeck, brunell, bledsoe, delhomme,warner, bulger, eli, and brad johnson had obviously better years.

for any of the above you could probably throw out numbers and whatnot and be met with nods. For vick you have to talk out of your ass for 30 posts before people start forgiving his numbers and performances.

He does get a lot of unnecessary flak, but there is a good portion that's valid. but it seems pretty comical that he got voted in, especially when his backup outplayed him by a healthy margin.

[Gcver2ver3]

If we're simply talking this year's Pro Bowl, Vick didn't have what would normally be defined as a Pro Bowl year. However, nobody else in that conference really jumps out at me, either. Hasselbeck seems to be the only one truly worthy.

As far as Vick in general, I think he gets dissed more than he deserves. Just because he doesn't fit into some neat little QB compartment doesn't mean that the guy isn't effective.

I think it's hurt them this year with him trying to prove he can be effective from the pocket. He's doing teams a favor when he does that. He needs to be let loose, be unpredictable, and make D-coordinators crap their pants. Is he more likely to get hurt? Obviously. But that's where he's at his best and I think they need to go with it and let the chips fall where they may. But what do I know, I just sit on the couch with a remote.


agreed...vick played better under reeves....dan knew how to better utilize him

vick will never be an effective west coast qb....(unless shanny got a hold of him....lol)

[FADERPROOF]

You mean kind of like Jake Plummer who only looks for Rod Smith? Brian Finneran has 45 catches to 58 for Crumpler. In comparison Plummer's #2 receiver is Putz with 35 while Lelie has 34. So I guess that means Plummer's not a real QB either since he mostly goes to Smith?

The effects of being Reeved take a while to overcome. I guess you'd like Vick to stay in the pocket and try to be Manning? Do you prefer Plummer do that also? I guess not.

Put down the crack pipe. Stewart won a grand total of 2 playoff games in his career. Vick has already won 2 including a win over the 12-4 Packers IN LAMBEAU and a brilliant performance against the Rams when he ran wild and they scored 47 points. He's only 25 and he's already equalled Stewart's playoff wins.

Chicago and Carolina rank #1 and #3 in the NFL in defense respectively.

There's a shock...a guy Reeves drafted still looks the same as when he drafted him...knock me down with a feather. Who cares about Mark Brunell and his pro bowl status? He's a freaking Redskin not a Bronco. I don't hear you b****ing about any other selections like Larry Allen or Roy Williams. Do you think they deserved it?

The Pro Bowl is a Hawaian vacation for guys who won a popularity contest with the fans. Players and coaches deservedly get to have 2/3 of the say on who goes but fans influence the margins after that a whole lot so I frankly don't care about the Pro Bowl. As for the Falcons vs the Skins...I'd say it's a tossup The Falcons lost to the Seahawks, Patriots, Bucs, Panthers and Bears to go with their upset loss to the Packers. Those teams have a combined winning percentage of .630 and the Skins lost to teams with a combined .622 winning percentage. Washington has as much talent as the Falcons do IMO so I don't see much difference between their seasons since they both have the same record.

Just wow...you suck at this.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Just wow...you suck at this.
Yea...well I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say like "you suck".

My bad.::)

[FADERPROOF]

Yea...well I couldn't think of anything intelligent to say like "you suck".

My bad.::)


Trust me..you were better off just saying that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Trust me..you were better off just saying that.
Really? Then which part can you dispute? Apparently none of it or you would have done so.

[DBroncos4life]

The Vikings are 8-6.


Oh boy its a cold day when that has to be thrown out there to defend Vick. 6 of those 8 wins came AFTER Hotlanta played them and there isn't many people out there that will mix the Vikings up with a good team.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Oh boy its a cold day when that has to be thrown out there to defend Vick. 6 of those 8 wins came AFTER Hotlanta played them and there isn't many people out there that will mix the Vikings up with a good team.
So what. Their win over the Eagles came before TO left and they imploded. The point is they have beaten a team with a winning record.

Get over the Vick hatred. He got voted into the PB by his peers so whether you like it or not...they think he earned it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The Vikings are 8-6.
They are (I thought they got suspended for playing sailor or something)? My bad, Vick has beaten the mighty Vikings.

[DBroncos4life]

They are (I thought they got suspended for playing sailor or something)? My bad, Vick has beaten the mighty Vikings.


yeah its a thing that only 5 other teams found away to do ::)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

yeah its a thing that only 5 other teams found away to do ::)
So you're saying the Vikings are a good team? Are you basing that on their victory over the Giants or having beaten the mighty Packers and Lions twice each along with New Orleans, St Louis and Cleveland?

[DBroncos4life]

So you're saying the Vikings are a good team? Are you basing that on their victory over the Giants or having beaten the mighty Packers and Lions twice each along with New Orleans, St Louis and Cleveland?
They suck balls no matter how you draw it up

[Bronco_Beerslug]

They suck balls no matter how you draw it up
That's what I said, you defended them and now you say they suck?

[DBroncos4life]

That's what I said, you defended them and now you say they suck?


how did I defend them? See post 125

[Bronco_Beerslug]

how did I defend them? See post 125

yeah its a thing that only 5 other teams found away to do

That wasn't defending them, OK.

[GonzoLays]

Just wow...you suck at this.

What FADERPROOF is really trying to say is that he doesn't know how to dispute what you are writing so he goes with the unintelligent response of "you suck" and he pats himself on the back like he has done something.

[FADERPROOF]

Really? Then which part can you dispute? Apparently none of it or you would have done so.

Instead of trying to justify how he is as a QB, you'd have a better argument by saying "look at the NFC, who else other than maybe Mark Brunell is a Pro Bowler?"

I didn't want to get into the dispute because you are just desperately trying to reach for things to justify how Vick is a good QB, that was enough for me to just tell you that it sucked.

[FADERPROOF]

What FADERPROOF is really trying to say is that he doesn't know how to dispute what you are writing so he goes with the unintelligent response of "you suck" and he pats himself on the back like he has done something.


That's actually not what I'm trying to say, so how about you quit trying to speak for me and go make yourself productive for once?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Instead of trying to justify how he is as a QB, you'd have a better argument by saying "look at the NFC, who else other than maybe Mark Brunell is a Pro Bowler?"

I didn't want to get into the dispute because you are just desperately trying to reach for things to justify how Vick is a good QB, that was enough for me to just tell you that it sucked.
Everything in the post you cited makes perfect sense. If it doesn't, show me otherwise. I don't have to "reach for things" to make Vick look good.

Ask our defense.Nyah!

[Lidderer]

i wish someone other than footsteps was making this tenuous claim; guy's usually in the right.

he has to be wrong sometimes, I suppose.

[-Slap-]

i wish someone other than footsteps was making this tenuous claim; guy's usually in the right.

he has to be wrong sometimes, I suppose.
You have that all backwards.

[Lidderer]

You have that all backwards.

oh, well his posts are usually really long so i just figured he was saying correct stuff.

I only read my own posts, so...

[-Slap-]

oh, well his posts are usually really long so i just figured he was saying correct stuff.

I only read my own posts, so...
Somebody has to.

;)

[Lidderer]

Somebody has to.

;)

slap, you should read firejoemorgan.blogspot.com (http://firejoemorgan.blogspot.com)

[-Slap-]

slap, you should read firejoemorgan.blogspot.com (http://firejoemorgan.blogspot.com)
I have it bookmarked already, but thanks for the heads up. There are so many good baseball websites.

There's somebody getting off a great jape at one Woodrow Paige's expense on the front page right now.

[errand]

The effects of being Reeved take a while to overcome. I guess you'd like Vick to stay in the pocket and try to be Manning? Do you prefer Plummer do that also? I guess not.

How is trying to be Peyton Manning bad? Personally if the Broncos could turn Jake into a Peyton Manning, I wouldn't be bitching about it. BTW, Jake passes from the pocket, and doesn't hightail it outta there at the first sign of trouble. And he's a team leader.....

Put down the crack pipe. Stewart won a grand total of 2 playoff games in his career. Vick has already won 2 including a win over the 12-4 Packers IN LAMBEAU and a brilliant performance against the Rams when he ran wild and they scored 47 points. He's only 25 and he's already equalled Stewart's playoff wins.

He's 25 and people are still questioning his ability to become an effective NFL QB.......

Chicago and Carolina rank #1 and #3 in the NFL in defense respectively.

So the one player nobody can gameplan for cannot beat a good defensive team?

There's a shock...a guy Reeves drafted still looks the same as when he drafted him...knock me down with a feather. Who cares about Mark Brunell and his pro bowl status? He's a freaking Redskin not a Bronco. I don't hear you b****ing about any other selections like Larry Allen or Roy Williams. Do you think they deserved it?

Sorry, the thread was about how did Michael Vick make it to the Pro Bowl....if you're so concerned about the selection of Larry Allen, perhaps you could start a thread and ask the Mane how the hell he made it. BTW, didn't someone already post that Vick actually played better under Reeves tutelage?

I frankly don't care about the Pro Bowl.

.......and yet oddly enough you've spent hours on here defending a QB that was selected to a game you don't care about.

[Rock Chalk]

Geez, footsteps is getting it from everywhere lately.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I've had my say on this subject and if you dissagree...fine. This is a dead thread...I say/you say/I say/you say...believe what you want to. The guys who PLAY and COACH this game are 2/3 responsible for putting him in the pro bowl. Maybe you should take it up with them instead since they also think he belongs there.

[Lidderer]

I've had my say on this subject and if you dissagree...fine. This is a dead thread...I say/you say/I say/you say...believe what you want to. The guys who PLAY and COACH this game are 2/3 responsible for putting him in the pro bowl. Maybe you should take it up with them instead since they also think he belongs there.

I'm gonna limb-it here and suggest that his inclusion had mostly to do with fans voting, which is, after all, 33% of the vote. And given the glut of qbs better than him--by varying and arguable measures--I'm sure there were many votes that cancelled each other out, thus elevating Vick's fan vote.

And let's also add that's it's less "I say/you say" and more "I say/they say".

[footstepsfrom#27]

I'm gonna limb-it here and suggest that his inclusion had mostly to do with fans voting, which is, after all, 33% of the vote.
As opposed to the 66.6% of the vote that came from the people who PLAY and COACH the game for a living versus TALKING about it on the internet. That makes sense...::)
And given the glut of qbs better than him--by varying and arguable measures--I'm sure there were many votes that cancelled each other out, thus elevating Vick's fan vote.
Funny...I'd have thought a team in a huge fan market like New York would have got their QB in there instead of Atlanta. But I'm sure all those Manning votes just cancelled out other better QB's and for some strange reason Vick was the only one who benefitted from ballot stuffing...interesting logic.
And let's also add that's it's less "I say/you say" and more "I say/they say".
How bout THEY say...you say. He's in the PB and by your own admission a lot of fans voted for him. But of course they all live in Atlanta right?

Now I am truly finished with this.

Out.

[Lidderer]

As opposed to the [b]66.6% of the vote[b] that came from the people who PLAY and COACH the game for a living versus TALKING about it on the internet. That makes sense...::)

Funny...I'd have thought a team in a huge fan market like New York would have got their QB in there instead of Atlanta. But I'm sure all those Manning votes just cancelled out other better QB's and for some strange reason Vick was the only one who benefitted from ballot stuffing...interesting logic.

How bout THEY say...you say. He's in the PB and by your own admission a lot of fans voted for him. But of course they all live in Atlanta right?

Now I am truly finished with this.

Out.

That's good that those are your last words.

vick is not an atl-exclusive player. I live in canada and i see more vick jerseys than maple leaf apparel. That says A LOT. He's iconic and representative of what a lot of the youth(90% of which spend copious amounts of time on the internet....possibly voting even!) looks for in a player: brash, freakishly athletic, "sick" if you will, etc.....note that said attributes don't necessarily correalate with effectiveness

I doubt any more people from NY were responsible for internet voting than other populus regions, and even if that's the case we get into the matter of transplanted citizenry and blahbalh but let's not.

I think you missed my point about the 33% of the vote. that he was the highest nfc vote-getter by fans means he already locked up a healthy portion of the vote. Yes, 66% remained, but as I said, there were several qbs who outperformed vick but probably didn't stand apart from each other enough to topple the big lead he accrued from the landslide fan-vote. I don't know why you're being all rollie-eyed and smarmy about the logic of that point, but okay.

Now you are truly finished with this.

[FADERPROOF]

Geez, footsteps is getting it from everywhere lately.

I told him that he sucked at this.

[Circle Orange]

I never realized there was a genetic coding saying a quarterback can't run AND throw...last time I checked, the most effective ones do both WHILE PLAYING THE POSITION, LEADING THE TEAM. This isn't the same as freelancing alley ball. The reason Vick's running is so effective is because he's essentially another back like Dunn in their backfield. So there's no one formation that counters that, since the qb is unaccounted for running anyway! Even a slow qb can get 10 yards on downs with the defense running upfield.

Vick, year one/two broken leg.
Vick, current year leg sleeve.
Vick, year seven one knee brace.
Vick, year nine two knee braces.

Hell, just get a punt returner who throws on occasion. That's this guy's game, if you can call it that. Breathe on him and he gets hurt every fourth quarter.

[-Slap-]

I'm reminded of an experience I had with my favorite uncle back when I was a small boy of perhaps five or six years old. I was helping him with some type of repair job, the specifics are hazy, but I remember my job was to pass my uncle various tools as they were requested. A precocious lad, I either questioned him or made an unsolicited suggestion at some point during the proceedings.

He paused at that moment, a man of vices, he was slightly winded from his labor. Finally he asked me, "Who's ****ing this cat, you or me?"

His words are as true today as they were 35 years ago.