Greatest QB Of All Time...Current ESPN Poll

[NaptownChief]

You boys better start clicking if you want to save some face on your opinion of Elway being the best ever cause the vast majority don't agree with you...He isn't even beating Montana in Colorado:


John Elway: 13.4 %

Brett Favre: 7.6%

Dan Marino: 14.6%

Joe Montana: 54.4%

John Unitas: 9.8%



Total Votes: 35,464

[Garcia Bronco]

Montana doesn't bother me....what would bother me would be Dan Marino being on the list

[Bronx33]

Montana doesn't bother me....what would bother me would be Dan Marino being on the list

I think they put him on there out of pity.

[Mile High Shack]

the vast majority of sports fans don't follow football enough to understand why Elway was a vast superior QB to Montana, they see his rings and assume he was the best

[NaptownChief]

Montana doesn't bother me....what would bother me would be Dan Marino being on the list


I accidently left him out....He has 14% of the vote making Elway 3rd best in the minds of the majority.

[Mile High Shack]

I accidently left him out....He has 14% of the vote.

LOL

more than Elway

LOL

LOL

which proves you don't have to be smart to log on to the internet

[Bronx33]

the vast majority of sports fans don't follow football enough to understand why Elway was a vast superior QB to Montana, they see his rings and assume he was the best


Exactly, elway was wayyyyy more of an athletic QB than montana he benefited from have a killer team around him elway had to deal with mediocore year after year till the end when wwe fianlly got a running game to take the pressure off him.

[Garcia Bronco]

I accidently left him out....He has 14% of the vote making Elway 3rd best in the minds of the majority.


Dan Marino is a joke of a selection...soon he shall disappear from all existence with no RING.

[BMF Bronco]

just like the future of pEyTon manning

[Altitude5280]

the vast majority of sports fans don't follow football enough to understand why Elway was a vast superior QB to Montana, they see his rings and assume he was the best

55-10.

[RaiderH8r]

Let's see, Elway has more wins, more yards, more comebacks, more yards rushing, more Super Bowls played than Montana and somehow Montana is better....riiigghhht. And Elway never sold his soul to the Chefs.

[broncosteven]

Where is TrINT? oh I forgot Boob can't respond, he is like the Chefs & the playoffs on the OUTSIDE LOOKING IN

Or you could look at the Cheefs & the playoffs & Boob as both BANNED!

[BMF Bronco]

55-10.
Jerry vs. Vance Johnson? Roger Craig vs. Sammy Winder? Ronnie Lott vs. Tony Lilly? Come on, that's a ridiculous statement! The only reason we were there was because of John! hmmm... :pity:

[Mile High Shack]

55-10.

compare teams they were on

you are a bronco fan??

holy ****

football is a team game

put Elway on that team and Montana on Elway's team

the score would've been 63-0

[Smiling Assassin27]

Where the hell is Trent Dilfer???

[BigPlayShay]

Shoot. Internet polls are how I base my decisions and validate my own opinions. I guess this means that I have to consider Montatna the best ever.

Damn you internet polls, damn you.

[Rocket 7]

55-10.
So does 42-10 make Doug Williams a superior QB also?

[BigPlayShay]

So does 42-10 make Doug Williams a superior QB also?

Don't forget Timmy Smith...

[Altitude5280]

compare teams they were on

IT was 55-10. Not 21-20. Not 17-14. Not 55-52.

55-10.

I don't care who the teams are, this is the NFL and that was the Super Bowl. The least Elway could've done is threw a couple TDs.

you are a bronco fan??

So you need to be a biased homer to have an opinion, is that where you're going with this?

holy ****

football is a team game

put Elway on that team and Montana on Elway's team

the score would've been 63-0

Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The Marino fanatics say the same thing.

[Bronx33]

Don't forget Timmy Smith...


That dude has some great coke!

[Altitude5280]

So does 42-10 make Doug Williams a superior QB also?

Was Doug Williams a 4 time Super Bowl-winning first ballot Hall of Famer?

[Garcia Bronco]

We didn't get whooped by the Redskins because of Monk, Didder, Smith, Doug Williams...we got beat because of the Hogs....end of story. I could have bested 204 yards running behind that o-line.

[Bronx33]

IT was 55-10. Not 21-20. Not 17-14. Not 55-52.

55-10.

I don't care who the teams are, this is the NFL and that was the Super Bowl. The least Elway could've done is threw a couple TDs.



So you need to be a biased homer to have an opinion, is that where you're going with this?



Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The Marino fanatics say the same thing.



Still doesn't change the fact that elway was better and iam not being a homer.

[BMF Bronco]

IT was 55-10. Not 21-20. Not 17-14. Not 55-52.

55-10.

I don't care who the teams are, this is the NFL and that was the Super Bowl. The least Elway could've done is threw a couple TDs.



So you need to be a biased homer to have an opinion, is that where you're going with this?



Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The Marino fanatics say the same thing.
Again, welcome to the board and your opinions are welcome, but yet again they're just invalid. first off, Marino only made it to one, showing his mediocrity. Also, Elway would/could have thrown a couple of TD's if he had a half a second in the pocket. The dude was running away from the defense like a cheetoh would from a rat (if it had legs).

[Garcia Bronco]

Elway had better phyiscal tools than Montana....this isn't in debate. Montana had a better offensive system they he helped pioneer....there is nothing wrong with that. I have no problems with people saying Montana was the greatest...or Johnny U for that matter....that's all pretty good company AFAIamC.

[BigPlayShay]

Take those 2 1989 teams and swap the QBs. Then see what would have happened. Still may have been 55-10 San Fran.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

55-10.
MHS's point proven

[RaiderH8r]

The crux of my argument is this, if I'm picking QBs for my football team my first choice, without a doubt, is Elway. My second pick is Favre. Those two don't need a great team around them to succeed, they make those around them better. They inspire those around them to play above their abilities and push them to success. The will their teams to win, by whatever it takes. Montana's time in KC is more indicative of his abilities as a QB than his time in SF. How many hall of famers has Elway played with? How many has Montana played with?

[orange 4 life]

You boys better start clicking if you want to save some face on your opinion of Elway being the best ever cause the vast majority don't agree with you...He isn't even beating Montana in Colorado:


John Elway: 13.4 %

Brett Favre: 7.6%

Dan Marino: 14.6%

Joe Montana: 54.4%

John Unitas: 9.8%



Total Votes: 35,464

people are idiots, and this is just more evidence.
espn is a joke and so is this poll.

elway is FAR AND AWAY the best to ever play and nothing this dipstick poll says changes that.

heck, montana wasnt even the best qb on his own damn team let alone all time!!
all 4 other guys listed (with the POSSIBLE exception of favre) were better than montana, and you can add steve young to that list too.

montana was top ten for his leadership and accuracy, but top five he is not.
if winning superbowls was the way to determine whos the best ever (and what a joke it is that so many use that as a barometer when its a TEAM that wins) then bradshaw and staubach should be on the list, and dilfer, doug williams, and brad johnson would be ahead of marino.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The crux of my argument is this, if I'm picking QBs for my football team my first choice, without a doubt, is Elway. My second pick is Favre. Those two don't need a great team around them to succeed, they make those around them better. They inspire those around them to play above their abilities and push them to success. The will their teams to win, by whatever it takes. Montana's time in KC is more indicative of his abilities as a QB than his time in SF. How many hall of famers has Elway played with? How many has Montana played with?
Exactly!!!!

One stat says it all. Who has won more games than anyone else in the history of the NFL?

[Elway 4 Life]

The most important stat in football to me is wins. Elway has more than any other QB on a lot of marginal teams. Montana was a good QB that had the luxury of being drafted by a fantastic organization that placed so much talent around him.

[orange 4 life]

Take those 2 1989 teams and swap the QBs. Then see what would have happened. Still may have been 55-10 San Fran.

take those two teams and swap qb's and miami wouldnt have uncorked the bubbly sunday.
take those two teams and swap qb's and you wouldve had an undefeated 49ers team.

also, who knows what the score wouldve been?

the broncos wouldnt have BEEN in the superbowl if montana was leading them.
montana wouldve been knocked out cold by midseason and the broncos wouldve struggled to an 8-8 or 9-7 record.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Bronco fans can go here http://espn.go.com/ and cast your vote. (scroll down on right hand side)

[orange 4 life]

the vast majority of sports fans don't follow football enough to understand why Elway was a vast superior QB to Montana, they see his rings and assume he was the best

i ramble on for hours.
this you all know.

sometimes longwinded posts are unnecessary, and this is one of those times.

shack,
you said it as quick and concise as possible, and really, nothing else needs to be said except well done.

[Bronx33]

i ramble on for hours.
this you all know.

sometimes longwinded posts are unnecessary, and this is one of those times.

shack,
you said it as quick and concise as possible, and really, nothing else needs to be said except well done.

agreed, but don't get a big head shack!Ha!

[broncosteven]

So napkins is sad that Cheefs are home for Playoffs so he has to start a Joey M is better than the Greatest QB Ever thread huh? How many threads like these has Napkins started anyway?

[orange 4 life]

55-10.

dumbest post on the thread.

my guess is you are another telluride or waffleboy.
a guy masquerading as a bronco fan to stir the pot.
pathetic.

if you indeed ARE a bronco fan, or really even a FOOTBALL fan, then you need
some education.
did you watch that game?

for one, the broncos never shouldve been there.
we were there for one reason only and that reason is elway.

secondly, that 49ers team was one of the greatest of all time.
other than qb, they were superior at EVERY SINGLE POSITION on BOTH sides of the ball.
we had a couple guys (meck, smith, etc.) that wouldve got some playing time on the 49ers team, but MOST of our guys wouldnt have made it through training camp.

...and finally, you have to actually analyze that game.
our guys knew they were overmatched, and as soon as san fran opened up a lead the whole team around elway simply quit.
it was sickening to watch, and you could see the look on elways face. it said it all.
did you happen to notice the play of our offensive (and i mean OFFENSIVE) line?
did you notice the time elway had?
back then we used alot of 7 step drops, and on virtually EVERY down elway had a guy or two in his face before completing his drop.
even the plays we tried a 5 step drop our guards got bull rushed so badly that elway was immediately running for his life.

if you use that game as a barometer to decide who the better player is then your football I.Q. is a zero.
do us all a favor and get a clue before posting again.

jake

[broncosteven]

I am moving to Wyoming! They know who the Greatest QB of all time is!

[Elway 4 Life]

I am moving to Wyoming! They know who the Greatest QB of all time is!

Hilarious!

[RaiderH8r]

dumbest post on the thread.

my guess is you are another telluride or waffleboy.
a guy masquerading as a bronco fan to stir the pot.
pathetic.

if you indeed ARE a bronco fan, or really even a FOOTBALL fan, then you need
some education.
did you watch that game?

for one, the broncos never shouldve been there.
we were there for one reason only and that reason is elway.

secondly, that 49ers team was one of the greatest of all time.
other than qb, they were superior at EVERY SINGLE POSITION on BOTH sides of the ball.
we had a couple guys (meck, smith, etc.) that wouldve got some playing time on the 49ers team, but MOST of our guys wouldnt have made it through training camp.

...and finally, you have to actually analyze that game.
our guys knew they were overmatched, and as soon as san fran opened up a lead the whole team around elway simply quit.
it was sickening to watch, and you could see the look on elways face. it said it all.
did you happen to notice the play of our offensive (and i mean OFFENSIVE) line?
did you notice the time elway had?
back then we used alot of 7 step drops, and on virtually EVERY down elway had a guy or two in his face before completing his drop.
even the plays we tried a 5 step drop our guards got bull rushed so badly that elway was immediately running for his life.

if you use that game as a barometer to decide who the better player is then your football I.Q. is a zero.
do us all a favor and get a clue before posting again.

jake
Elway had a great quote when asked about preparing for that game. He said he knew the Broncos were in trouble when the starting defense couldn't stop the practice squad from scoring on them during practice.

[RaiderH8r]

I am moving to Wyoming! They know who the Greatest QB of all time is!
Apparently Spider has some spare time on his hands since his rig broke down. Way to go.

[Rock Chalk]

Was Doug Williams a 4 time Super Bowl-winning first ballot Hall of Famer?
Well no, but then he wasnt surrounded by HOF's and 16 PRO BOWLERS on teh same team either.

[jonny1]

All you need to know about the poll on ESPN is that Otto Graham isn't on the list.

Nor is Bart Starr

[Rocket 7]

All you need to know about the poll on ESPN is that Otto Graham isn't on the list.

Nor is Bart Starr
They left out Sammy Baugh also

[RaiderH8r]

All fine candidates for the runner up position to the Duke. ;D

[NaptownChief]

So napkins is sad that Cheefs are home for Playoffs so he has to start a Joey M is better than the Greatest QB Ever thread huh? How many threads like these has Napkins started anyway?



Last I checked I don't write the polls for ESPN....Just because five times as many people believe Montana was better than Elway doesn't make it my issue. I'm very sorry public opinion hurts your wittle feelings there bron cost even.

[BMF Bronco]

What about Jim McMahon?!

[RaiderH8r]

What about Jim McMahon?!
Super Bowl Shuffle. He's eliminated on principle alone. Sorry Jimmy Mac, but you'll always be the punky qb with stupid shades to me.:wave:

[BMF Bronco]

Super Bowl Shuffle. He's eliminated on principle alone. Sorry Jimmy Mac, but you'll always be the punky qb with stupid shades to me.:wave:
Ok how about Joe namath?

[orange 4 life]

Ok how about Joe namath?

most overrated player in the history of sports.

[orange 4 life]

Last I checked I don't write the polls for ESPN....Just because five times as many people believe Montana was better than Elway doesn't make it my issue. I'm very sorry public opinion hurts your wittle feelings there bron cost even.

its not you nappy, its just the idiocy of people as a whole.

elway was CLEARLY a better player than montana, but because montana led a few of the greatest TEAMS in history he always gets put on a pedestal he doesnt deserve to be on.

[RaiderH8r]

most overrated player in the history of sports.
But dropping a line on Suzy Kolber on national tv while shiatfaced was classic.:wiggle: :gimme:

[NaptownChief]

its not you nappy, its just the idiocy of people as a whole.

elway was CLEARLY a better player than montana, but because montana led a few of the greatest TEAMS in history he always gets put on a pedestal he doesnt deserve to be on.



I certainly understand your side of it.... bron cost even decided he wanted to attack the messager just because he didn't like the message.

[-Slap-]

You boys better start clicking if you want to save some face on your opinion of Elway being the best ever cause the vast majority don't agree with you...He isn't even beating Montana in Colorado:

"Save some face".

rofl

Like anyone here give's a rat's ass what some jagovs say on an ESPN poll. If Geyton Manning was on the list, he would be running away with the voting.

[-Slap-]

most overrated player in the history of sports.

Bo Jackson. Nobody else is even close.

[NaptownChief]

"Save some face".

rofl

Like anyone here give's a rat's ass what some jagovs say on an ESPN poll.



You may not but clearly several on here do as there is 3 pages worth of responses with a few having their panties in a wad.

[-Slap-]

Why did they even bother putting Johnny U on that list? Half of the people who voted in that poll never heard of him before. Most of them would guess that Otto Graham used to be a guitarist for the Scorpions.

[NaptownChief]

Why did they even bother putting Johnny U on that list? Half of the people who voted in that poll never heard of him before. Most of them would guess that Otto Graham used to be a guitarist for the Scorpions.



Agreed...Pretty surprised that he pulled in the number of votes that he did.

[Altitude5280]

Still doesn't change the fact that elway was better and iam not being a homer.

That's an opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion), not a fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact).

Here are some facts:

Montana has 4 rings, Elway had 2.

Montana's 49ers beat Elway's Broncos 55-10 in the most important game of the '89/90 season.

ESPN poll voters unanimously think Montana is better than Elway as a quarterback.

You can't argue facts.

Telling me "ElwayisbetterIamnotahomer!" doesn't mean squat.

[Mile High Shack]

That's an opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion), not a fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact).

Here are some facts:

Montana has 4 rings, Elway had 2.

Montana's 49ers beat Elway's Broncos 55-10 in the most important game of the '89/90 season.

ESPN poll voters unanimously think Montana is better than Elway as a quarterback.

You can't argue facts.

Telling me "ElwayisbetterIamnotahomer!" doesn't mean squat.

a poll on espn is a fact???

give me a break

Tell me who has more wins in the NFL all time as a starting QB???

[Atlas]

Bo Jackson. Nobody else is even close.

My vote goes for Troy Aikman. Average QB with a great team. As soon as the team wasn't great he sucked. Even when the team was still pretty good he was an average QB.

[RaiderH8r]

a poll on espn is a fact???

give me a break

Tell me who has more wins in the NFL all time as a starting QB???
And more yards passing, and more playoff wins, and more Super Bowl starts, and more rushing yards, and more comeback wins. Elway's body of work is staggering by any single measure. Taken as one player he presents a complete package of a QB. Montana......played with a buttload of talent and won 4 rings. Went to KC and crapped out in a big way. The Montana flame/legacy was buried under the stench-ridden sh!t heap that is KC. And that, should be the end of this discussion....unfortunately I fear it won't be. I think Bob has found a way back onto the Mane.

[broncosteven]

Last I checked I don't write the polls for ESPN....Just because five times as many people believe Montana was better than Elway doesn't make it my issue. I'm very sorry public opinion hurts your wittle feelings there bron cost even.

You started the thread here napkins. I remember getting into this before with you & zach before the season started. I know the world thinks Maryanna was the best QB ever. Personally I think they left off a few HOF QB's that WON Championships.

I just found it funny that it was a FinKFC fan that started this thread is all.

BTW Too bad Len Dawson is not on there huh

[Elway 4 Life]

That's an opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion), not a fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact).

Here are some facts:

Montana has 4 rings, Elway had 2.

Montana's 49ers beat Elway's Broncos 55-10 in the most important game of the '89/90 season.

ESPN poll voters unanimously think Montana is better than Elway as a quarterback.

You can't argue facts.

Telling me "ElwayisbetterIamnotahomer!" doesn't mean squat.

Now I see why they banned your knuckleheaded ass from the broncomaniacs

[Altitude5280]

people are idiots, and this is just more evidence.
espn is a joke and so is this poll.

elway is FAR AND AWAY the best to ever play and nothing this dipstick poll says changes that.

Cry me a river. Let me guess, the rest of the world is a bunch of idiots, but a forum of "completely unbiased" Bronco fans are the experts, right? Give me a break.

heck, montana wasnt even the best qb on his own damn team let alone all time!!
all 4 other guys listed (with the POSSIBLE exception of favre) were better than montana, and you can add steve young to that list too.

You've lost all credibility right here. I think I'm done with you.

[Altitude5280]

Now I see why they banned your knuckleheaded ass from the broncomaniacs
Now that is sure to win Elway a few more votes in that ESPN poll! Compelling argument there champ!

[Altitude5280]

Tell me who has more wins in the NFL all time as a starting QB???

Fair enough. That's one stat. Here are some other stats (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/extras/graphics/marino/athlete/nflrecords.htm).

Oops! Those belong to Dan Marino. Would you say he's better than Elway?

[-Slap-]

Now that is sure to win Elway a few more votes in that ESPN poll! Compelling argument there champ!

This guy is as phony as a Chinese redhead.

[RaiderH8r]

This guy is as phony as a Chinese redhead.
This smacks of mullet head boredom at the Planet. Does Boob have a brother/uncle/father?

[Atlas]

Fair enough. That's one stat. Here are some other stats (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/extras/graphics/marino/athlete/nflrecords.htm).

Oops! Those belong to Dan Marino. Would you say he's better than Elway?

You know what slick. I think you are way too brilliant for this lame site. maybe you should try broncosfreak.com they really have it going on over there or so I hear.

[-Slap-]

Fair enough. That's one stat. Here are some other stats (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/extras/graphics/marino/athlete/nflrecords.htm).

Oops! Those belong to Dan Marino. Would you say he's better than Elway?

See, knowing a little about the team you're trolling doesn't mean anything when you overplay your hand so badly right out of the gate.

[-Slap-]

Does Boob have a brother/uncle/father?

Ironically they're all the same guy.

[Elway 4 Life]

Fair enough. That's one stat. Here are some other stats (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/extras/graphics/marino/athlete/nflrecords.htm).

Oops! Those belong to Dan Marino. Would you say he's better than Elway?

I saw montana's name once on that list. So the only thing that matters to you is superbowl wins? Your a friggin idiot. So in your eyes Tom Brady is a better QB than Elway or Marino?

[Atlas]

I saw montana's name once on that list. So the only thing that matters to you is superbowl wins? Your a friggin idiot. So in your eyes Tom Brady is a better QB than Elway or Marino?

Sammy Baugh won 10 NFL Championships in 10 years. I guess he was the best.

[Spider]

55-10.
I can handle this kind of stupidity from Chief , Raider fans but not bronco fan ..........
First off my special ed friend Niners had a vastly better front office over Denver , meaning they had more resources to pick players and coaches .....
Rodger Griag vs Sammy Winder ..... yeah that one was close :saywhat:
Jerry Rice vs the entire Denver WR core ..........Another nail bitter hey ....
But the most important is the Lines ...... 9ers had a far better oline and D line then Denver , making the Niners D better then Denvers , making the Niners O better then Denver ..........
Theonly position Denverhad better was the QB ........

[Elway 4 Life]

Sammy Baugh won 10 NFL Championships in 10 years. I guess he was the best.

And he wasnt even on the list. Damn that ESPN.

[orange 4 life]

That's an opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion), not a fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact).

Here are some facts:

Montana has 4 rings, Elway had 2.

Montana's 49ers beat Elway's Broncos 55-10 in the most important game of the '89/90 season.

ESPN poll voters unanimously think Montana is better than Elway as a quarterback.

You can't argue facts.

Telling me "ElwayisbetterIamnotahomer!" doesn't mean squat.

here's another FACT.

you made no argument whatsoever, because the FACTS you trotted out have nothing to do with the issue.

rings are won by a TEAM.
games are won by TEAMS.
espn voters are idiots.

what part of that is tough for you to grasp?

want more facts?

montanas TEAMS (i think youre having a hard time grasping the whole "team" thing so ill emphasize the word for you) were VASTLY superior to elways.

dispute that dipstick.

[Garcia Bronco]

Which brings up an interesting question....what is a Championship worth today vs....yester-year? 2 to 1?

[DrFate]

ESPN poll voters unanimously think Montana is better than Elway as a quarterback.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/unanimous

1 : being of one mind : AGREEING
2 : formed with or indicating unanimity : having the agreement and consent of all

Knowitall

[Mile High Shack]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/unanimous

1 : being of one mind : AGREEING
2 : formed with or indicating unanimity : having the agreement and consent of all

Knowitall

so apparently Titanic is the best movie every made b/c so many people went to see it eh?

I love this kind of logic

[Altitude5280]

All I see is a bunch of accusations about me, yet not a lot of substantive facts or arguments about why Elway shouldn't be losing this poll. That's a typical loyalist, irrational reaction to facts. All you have is the ad hominem; attack the messenger, not the message. Are you unable to refute my facts? Does it piss you off that my facts PLUS public opinion are making a better case every second for why Montana WAS CLEARLY better than Elway?

[DrFate]

I love this kind of logic

I don't think this guy knows much about logic (http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/logic), Mile High. I imagine he is going to be one of the fastest 'ignored' posters in Mane history.

:thumbs:

And he certainly doesn't understand what the word unanimous means...

[Mile High Shack]

All I see is a bunch of accusations about me, yet not a lot of substantive facts or arguments about why Elway shouldn't be losing this poll. That's a typical loyalist, irrational reaction to facts. All you have is the ad hominem; attack the messenger, not the message. Are you unable to refute my facts? Does it piss you off that my facts PLUS public opinion are making a better case every second for why Montana WAS CLEARLY better than Elway?

you aren't a bronco fan, that my friend is pretty obvious

there is no fact that states Montana is a better qb than Elway

only opinion

you can't say rings b/c football is a team sport, it takes a team to win a championship, not just a QB.

A poll does not make it a fact, millions of people listen to Britanny Spears, but that doesn't mean she is more talented than other singers with actual talent.

you have no facts, only opinion.

As Rick Reiley has said, you put Elway on those 49er teams Montana was on, there would be just as many championships, if not 2 more and if Montana was on the teams Elway had, he would've been selling insurance by 1987.

[orange 4 life]

Cry me a river. Let me guess, the rest of the world is a bunch of idiots, but a forum of "completely unbiased" Bronco fans are the experts, right? Give me a break.

You've lost all credibility right here. I think I'm done with you.

fvck you dipstick.

i didnt "lose credibility", i made a valid and accurate point, but im not surprised to see it lost on you.

here's an idea rainman.
how about making a POINT?

you havent backed up a single thing youve said.

"im done with you"

wow, now thats a compelling argument. ::) .....or not.

let me show you how it works fvckstick.

montana left for kc.
after that, young took over, won another superbowl, and did it with BETTER stats than montana had.
before montana left san fran fans and socalled "experts" loved to trot out the "he has the best ever lifetime qb rating".

first off, qb rating is a joke, but since we're talking about montana lets run with it okay rainman?

besides winning superbowls (which anyone with half a brain knows is a team effort), the qb rating was the big thing montana had going for him.

he leaves, and young then immediately jumps ahead of him in career passer rating.
hmmmm, how DOES that work?
young threw for more yards, and he ran for more yards.....and oh yeah.
they won another superbowl.

ever look at jerry rice's lifetime stats?
theyre better by LEAPS AND BOUNDS after young took over.

young was faster, more elusive, and had a stronger arm.
you could give montana the slight edge in accuracy, but youngs ability to burn it in between two defenders more than makes up for montanas only category in which he had a slight edge.

see now dipsh!t.
thats called an "argument".
thats what we call "a valid point".

what youre spewing is a bunch of uneducated nonsense.
argue that b!tch.

[Altitude5280]

As for Sammy Baugh's 10 championships, you can't subtract those titles at your whim. However you can clearly examine history and see other teams like the Browns, Bears and Packers won a ton more titles than the modern teams after the AFL-NFL merger. So clearly, the number of titles won is attributable to the era in which Baugh played.

Elway was not in a different era than Montana, in fact, they were in the same exact era, even playing against each other.

[DrFate]

As Rick Reiley has said, you put Elway on those 49er teams Montana was on, there would be just as many championships, if not 2 more and if Montana was on the teams Elway had, he would've been selling insurance by 1987.

What really bothers me, Mile High, is that I have been using that 'selling insurance" line for years and yet Reiley gets all the credit.

:laugh:

Oh well...

[Mile High Shack]

What really bothers me, Mile High, is that I have been using that 'selling insurance" line for years and yet Reiley gets all the credit.

:laugh:

Oh well...

ok let me rephrase

as Dr. Fate has said...............

[DrFate]

ok let me rephrase

as Dr. Fate has said...............

:spit:

[Mile High Shack]

As for Sammy Baugh's 10 championships, you can't subtract those titles at your whim. However you can clearly examine history and see other teams like the Browns, Bears and Packers won a ton more titles than the modern teams after the AFL-NFL merger. So clearly, the number of titles won is attributable to the era in which Baugh played.

Elway was not in a different era than Montana, in fact, they were in the same exact era, even playing against each other.

football is a team game

49er teams of the 80's were much better team wise than the Bronco teams of the 80's

[-Slap-]

In the various sub divisions of trolls, clearly the most gutless and pathetic are the ones who come in here masquerading as Bronco fans.

[orange 4 life]

Now that is sure to win Elway a few more votes in that ESPN poll! Compelling argument there champ!

ummmm, his intention wasnt to "get a few votes".

his intention was to point out the obvious, which is that youre an idiot stick and its no surprise you got booted from another bronco board.

is your life REALLY so pathetic that you think masquerading as a bronco fan and trying to rile people up is fun?

run along rainman. wapner at 2:00.

[Mile High Shack]

In the various sub divisions of trolls, clearly the most gutless and pathetic are the ones who come in here masquerading as Bronco fans.

also known as trollus nolifeicus

[orange 4 life]

im an excellent poster. definately excellent poster.



does dad let you drive on weekends?

[-Slap-]

Imagine how dumb you would have to be not to understand the definition of unanimous.

[Spider]

so apparently Titanic is the best movie every made b/c so many people went to see it eh?

I love this kind of logic
Please say no more about Titanic , I havent seen it yet , so dont spoil the ending ;D

[Elway 4 Life]

Can we just end this dumb ass thread and not give this jerkoff altitude anymore satisfaction.

[DrFate]

football is a team game

What is it about trolls like this that can't understand that. All team sports are team games.

Trent Dilfer has more championships than Marino and Kelly combined. That doesn't make him a better QB.

Steve Kerr has more rings than Barkley, Malone, Stockton, Ewing, and Barkley combined. That doesn't make Kerr a better player.

[Altitude5280]

fvck you dipstick.

i didnt "lose credibility", i made a valid and accurate point, but im not surprised to see it lost on you.

here's an idea rainman.
how about making a POINT?

you havent backed up a single thing youve said.

"im done with you"

wow, now thats a compelling argument. .....or not.

let me show you how it works fvckstick.

montana left for kc.
after that, young took over, won another superbowl, and did it with BETTER stats than montana had.
before montana left san fran people loved to trot out the "he has the best ever lifetime qb rating".

first off, qb rating is a joke, but since we're talking about montana lets run with it okay rainman?

besides winning superbowls (which anyone with half a brain knows is a team effort), the qb rating was the big thing montana had going for him.

he leaves, and young then immediately jumps ahead of him in career passer rating.
hmmmm, how DOES that work?
young threw for more yards, and he ran for more yards.....and oh yeah.
they won another superbowl.

ever look at jerry rice's lifetime stats?
theyre better by LEAPS AND BOUNDS after young took over.

young was faster, more elusive, and had a stronger arm.
you could give montana the slight edge in accuracy, but youngs ability to burn it in between two defenders more than makes up for montanas only category in which he had a slight edge.

see now dipsh!t.
thats called an "argument".
thats what we call "a valid point".

what youre spewing is a bunch of uneducated nonsense.
argue that b!tch.

Namecalling. A sure sign you're losing the argument. Whatever happened to beating me up with logic or substantive arguments? Can't do it, can you?

Steve Young was an inferior quarterback to Montana. Maybe you didn't see muchy 49er football in those days to know the difference between the two, but I lived in the Bay Area briefly and saw the end of the Montana era and the beginning of the Young era. Young was known as a big game choker in the Bay Area until he broke through Dallas in '94 and beat SD in the Super Bowl. He was winning the passing title every year and then getting whooped by Aikman in the playoffs. I'll bet you if you polled 49er fans RIGHT NOW and asked them who was the better quarterback, Montana would dominate the votes handily. Why? Because those fans watched Montana, and then watched Young come in RIGHT AFTER HIM, and knew immediately he wasn't as clutch as Joe was in the big games. Stats are nice, but they don't amount to a hill of beans without the rings.

[Mile High Shack]

Namecalling. A sure sign you're losing the argument. Whatever happened to beating me up with logic or substantive arguments? Can't do it, can you?

Steve Young was an inferior quarterback to Montana. Maybe you didn't see muchy 49er football in those days to know the difference between the two, but I lived in the Bay Area briefly and saw the end of the Montana era and the beginning of the Young era. Young was known as a big game choker in the Bay Area until he broke through Dallas in '94 and beat SD in the Super Bowl. He was winning the passing title every year and then getting whooped by Aikman in the playoffs. I'll bet you if you polled 49er fans RIGHT NOW and asked them who was the better quarterback, Montana would dominate the votes handily. Why? Because those fans watched Montana, and then watched Young come in RIGHT AFTER HIM, and knew immediately he wasn't as clutch as Joe was in the big games. Stats are nice, but they don't amount to a hill of beans without the rings.

so is Terry Bradshaw a better QB than Elway?

is Trent Dilfer a better qb than Marino or Kelly?

[Altitude5280]

Again, more ad hominems, more attacking the messenger and not the message.

Are you people really afraid to debate the facts?

Just answer the question, all you homers calling ME out. I've manhandled this debate from start to finish like Super Bowl XXIV.

[Mile High Shack]

Again, more ad hominems, more attacking the messenger and not the message.

Are you people really afraid to debate the facts?

Just answer the question, all you homers calling ME out. I've manhandled this debate from start to finish like Super Bowl XXIV.

so basically b/c of a poll and more rings you say the "facts" are that Montana is a better than Elway

so I say to you

Marino had less rings than Trent Dilfer, does that make him less of a QB?

Terry Bradshaw wasn't even in the poll and he had 4 rings, is he better than Elway too?

[-Slap-]

Again, more ad hominems, more attacking the messenger and not the message.

Are you people really afraid to debate the facts?

Just answer the question, all you homers calling ME out. I've manhandled this debate from start to finish like Super Bowl XXIV.
Go manhandle your mom, dicklicker. You're a sad little KC troll in a Bronco suit and everybody was on to your punk ass after post one.

[Altitude5280]

so is Terry Bradshaw a better QB than Elway?

is Trent Dilfer a better qb than Marino or Kelly?

Take it into context. Bradshaw is a Hall of Fame quarterback whose regular season stats don't compare to Elway's, but he still made big plays in the big games and beat some of the best teams of that era. Just because he was a dumb Louisiana boy doesn't change the fact he was clutch. You could certainly make an argument for Bradshaw, however I personally feel Elway was better.

Dilfer? LOL. Again, take it into context. The best defense ever assembled (arguably) made it so that all the offense needed to do was score 10 points every week to win. How many QBs can score 10 points in a 60 minute game? I'm guessing quite a few.

[GreatBronco16]

Whatever happened to beating me up with logic or substantive arguments? Can't do it, can you?



Actually, if going only by logic or substantive arguments, he beat the living shlt out of you.

[RaiderH8r]

Again, more ad hominems, more attacking the messenger and not the message.

Are you people really afraid to debate the facts?

Just answer the question, all you homers calling ME out. I've manhandled this debate from start to finish like Super Bowl XXIV.
You've addressed nothing. I've posted, repeated times, that Elway has more wins, passing yds, comeback wins, rushing yds, super bowl starts than montana and you've addressed not one of them. You waive around one myopic point as though it were gospel and when presented with facts to refute your world view, see the above, you get pissy. The only thing you've manhandled is Montana's nut sack. Clean off your chin and get a clue.

Jr. High school must be out for winter break.

[Altitude5280]

Go manhandle your mom, dicklicker. You're a sad little KC troll in a Bronco suit and everybody was on to your punk ass after post one.

Waaah.

All you've done is attack me, which is the #1 sign you can't deal in facts.

Go ahead and ban the guy who has facts, become Broncomania.

[Altitude5280]

You've addressed nothing. I've posted, repeated times, that Elway has more wins, passing yds, comeback wins, rushing yds, super bowl starts than montana and you've addressed not one of them.

Fine, you want my attention to, eh? Gonna go postal like everyone else and start the namecalling (too late for that.)

Let me ask you a question, regarding Elway's wins, yards and ASuper Bowl starts. Would you trade all those stats for 2 more championships?

Answer the question.

[RaiderH8r]

Waaah.

All you've done is attack me, which is the #1 sign you can't deal in facts.

Go ahead and ban the guy who has facts, become Broncomania.
FACTS:
Wins-Elway
Passing Yards-Elway
Rushing Yards-Elway
Super Bowl Starts-Elway
Playoff Wins-Elway
Come from behind wins-Elway

Montana Legacy-Left under stench addled dung heap of KC
Elway Legacy-Legend
Response?

[Altitude5280]

Montana Legacy-Left under stench addled dung heap of KC

So you discredit Montana because he was a Chief once.

:thumbs:

[Clockwork Orange]

So you discredit Montana because he was a Chief once.

:thumbs:

So you ignore all the facts he put in front of you and respond only to that.

:thumbsup:

[Mile High Shack]

So you discredit Montana because he was a Chief once.

:thumbs:

no worse than discounting Elway b/c he was on worse TEAMS than Montana was during the same era

who would you rather throw to Jerry Rice and John Taylor or Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson?

[Mile High Shack]

So you ignore all the facts he put in front of you and respond only to that.

:thumbsup:

that's b/c he's getting owned like a russian whore on free vodka day

[GonzoLays]

IT was 55-10. Not 21-20. Not 17-14. Not 55-52.

55-10.

I don't care who the teams are, this is the NFL and that was the Super Bowl. The least Elway could've done is threw a couple TDs.



So you need to be a biased homer to have an opinion, is that where you're going with this?



Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The Marino fanatics say the same thing.

You come in here b*tchin and whinin about "broncomania doesn't like me so they banned me whaaaaaaaa" when all you do is post negative sh*t about the team. You have no other take besides negativity. If that is how you get a hard on, I see why they banned you.

[Mile High Shack]

You come in here b*tchin and whinin about "broncomania doesn't like me so they banned me whaaaaaaaa" when all you do is post negative sh*t about the team. You have no other take besides negativity. If that is how you get a hard on, I see why they banned you.

and if Gonzo Lays agrees with everyone else, then you know it's bad

[Bronx33]

Hmmmm seems we have a montana sack swinger posing as a bronco fan, i see why he was banned on mania.

[GreatBronco16]

This smacks of mullet head boredom at the Planet. Does Boob have a brother/uncle/father?


Yeah, his sister.

[RaiderH8r]

Fine, you want my attention to, eh? Gonna go postal like everyone else and start the namecalling (too late for that.)

Let me ask you a question, regarding Elway's wins, yards and ASuper Bowl starts. Would you trade all those stats for 2 more championships?

Answer the question.
Meaning? Would I trade being a Bronco fan for being a 49er fan? No. Would I have liked to see the Duke win two more? Absolutely. Would I trade The Drive, the comebacks, the super bowl shellackings, the knocks against Elway, the bullsh!t analysis of Elway, the 0-3 never gonna win one hype, and the final redemption of back to back SB wins and a SB MVP trophy vindication for Joe Montana and 2 more titles? Not on your life and not for all the rings in the world.

Those of us who are the actual fans, not trolling KC fans bored with their early offseason, understand that the 2 rings he got in the end were worth the years of adversity. And having watched him play at Mile High, being a part of the Bronco experience there is nothing in the world that would convince me to trade Elway's ability to lift a team, a stadium, and a nation of fans for all the rings in the world. Rings are for the team, the pleasure of watching magic and miracles of the game are for the fans. Elway was the master of the Mile High Miracle.

[orange 4 life]

Namecalling. A sure sign you're losing the argument. Whatever happened to beating me up with logic or substantive arguments? Can't do it, can you?

Steve Young was an inferior quarterback to Montana. Maybe you didn't see muchy 49er football in those days to know the difference between the two, but I lived in the Bay Area briefly and saw the end of the Montana era and the beginning of the Young era. Young was known as a big game choker in the Bay Area until he broke through Dallas in '94 and beat SD in the Super Bowl. He was winning the passing title every year and then getting whooped by Aikman in the playoffs. I'll bet you if you polled 49er fans RIGHT NOW and asked them who was the better quarterback, Montana would dominate the votes handily. Why? Because those fans watched Montana, and then watched Young come in RIGHT AFTER HIM, and knew immediately he wasn't as clutch as Joe was in the big games. Stats are nice, but they don't amount to a hill of beans without the rings.

wow youre fvcking stupid.

i gave you a valid argument, and your comeback is "if you polled 49ers fans..."?
thats pathetic numb nuts.

again, MILLIONS of people listen to brittney spears and have never heard of john coltrane, but that doesnt make her a more talented musician now does it rainman?

name calling in this case is simply stating facts.
you are in FACT (since you like that word so much despite not using any of substance) an idiot.

a loosely quoted movie line is appropriate here:

you made no argument. at no point in your incoherent ramblings did you come close to anything resembling a point. i award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

-billy madison-

young is "inferior" because thats what a poll in the bay area would show?
thats your idea of a substantive argument.

[Antilles]

"[Place] Elway behind all of Joe Montana’s lines in San Francisco and Montana behind all of Elway’s lines in Denver. Nothing much changes in San Francisco, but by the age of 28 Montana is either dead or selling life insurance.”

- Rick Reilly, SI.

[BMF Bronco]

So you discredit Montana because he was a Chief once.

:thumbs:
No, due to his lack of loyalty

[orange 4 life]

Again, more ad hominems, more attacking the messenger and not the message.

Are you people really afraid to debate the facts?

Just answer the question, all you homers calling ME out. I've manhandled this debate from start to finish like Super Bowl XXIV.

hey fvcknuts.

i gave you valid reasons, and your response was "if you poll people in san fran".

again, is that REALLY your idea of "debating the facts".

can someone explain to me why every troll uses the term "ad hominem"?
do they think it makes them look intelligent?

ad hominen my ass rainman.

[TheDave]

JMO

1. Montana
2. Elway
3. Unitas

I completely understand the swap Joe, and John argument... and agree with it. But the fact is that they ended up where they did, and montana made the most of his situation. Just my opinion...Flame away.

[Altitude5280]

no worse than discounting Elway b/c he was on worse TEAMS than Montana was during the same era

who would you rather throw to Jerry Rice and John Taylor or Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson?

Fair enough. I'll give you that. But was Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson so much worse than Dwight Clark or Freddie Solomon? Was Ricky Patton in '81 better than Bobby Humphrey in '89?

Remember, Montana had 2 championships before Jerry Rice even entered the NFL.

[RaiderH8r]

No, due to his lack of loyalty
And the fact that Montana became REALLLLLLY mediocre once he lost the support staff around him. Elway stands on his own.

[Master___Pain]

that's b/c he's getting owned like a russian whore on free vodka day

Holy **** that was funny

[orange 4 life]

...and while youre at it, how about you be a man and take down the broncos avatar.

youre free to act like an idiot all you want, but at least quit doing it while pretending to a bronco fan.

the gig is up ass clown.

[GreatBronco16]

So this was his reason for coming here? To start up a Montana is better than Elway fight?

Regardless of the facts that point to Elway having had a better career than Montana, you would be very hard pressed to find any Bronco fan to claim any QB being better than Elway. That is just how it is. Love it or hate it, but them there are the facts.


BTW, this imposter carries the stinch of a KC fan living in their moms/sisters/uncles basement. Boob, is that you?

[BMF Bronco]

wow youre fvcking stupid.

i gave you a valid argument, and your comeback is "if you polled 49ers fans..."?
thats pathetic numb nuts.

again, MILLIONS of people listen to brittney spears and have never heard of john coltrane, but that doesnt make her a more talented musician now does it rainman?

name calling in this case is simply stating facts.
you are in FACT (since you like that word so much despite not using any of substance) an idiot.

a loosely quoted movie line is appropriate here:
We are all now dumber having listened to that..

you made no argument. at no point in your incoherent ramblings did you come close to anything resembling a point. i award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

-billy madison-

young is "inferior" because thats what a poll in the bay area would show?
thats your idea of a substantive argument.
We are all now dumber having listened to that...

[Antilles]

I'm not polling anybody in San Francisco...

[Altitude5280]

And the fact that Montana became REALLLLLLY mediocre once he lost the support staff around him. Elway stands on his own.

Again, that's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Got a link to prove that?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Elway will not get the respect that he deserves on an ESPN poll because of the west coast and east coast bias that undeniably exists in such unscientific ventures. You have to consider the source of the poll and the partakers. How many people in the country got to see Elway work the AFC over time and time again virtually on his own? How many of these people actually think for themselves? How many people are there from the Rocky Mountain region vs. the West Coast? How many of those voters are even old enough to remember either player? It's better to hear the take of an old-timer analyst (even though many of them have the same biases). Many of them take Elway over Montana.

The guy is possibly the best player in NFL history. No other player has had more of an impact on his team and on his region. I lived in Moore, Oklahoma as a child and became enamored with Elway after watching "The Drive." I have been a Bronco fan ever since. I doubt that Montana had near that effect on his fans with other guys like Rice, Taylor, Jones, Lott, and Craig on his team. Elway was above the game. His magic continued and his legend grew until his final game (where he won SB MVP).

No other player has won more games or led his team back from more deficits. Elway took a small market franchise to a seat among the top NFL franchises nearly on his own. Elway set the bar for late game heroics. Elway won tons of games that his team shouldnt have. Elway helped revolutionize QB'ing alongside Randall Cunningham. Elway was the ultimate QB. There is none better. Those other guys are great as well, but I dont think that any of them are better than Elway.

On Montana: you youngsters would probably understand Montana by comparing him to Brady (by using today's players in a comparative name-recognition example). Imagine Brady throwing to players of the calibur of Terrell Owens and Hines Ward (Rice and Taylor). With a TE like Todd Heap (Brent Jones). Then handing the ball off to a guy like Deuce McCallister (Roger Craig). Brady would be unstoppable with those weapons, right? Okay. Now you have an idea of what the 49ers gave Montana to work with.

With Elway, just look at Donovan McNabb. Now imagine McNabb dominating the league without anyone to throw to or to hand off to. Breaking records, constantly winning games with brilliant athletic plays, leading his team to the SB 5 times, constantly being a threat in the AFC, etc. Elway was a supersized McNabb with a gun for an arm, better scrambling ability, and a penchant for the dramatic. Elway was the ultimate winner. Period. Not only was he the ultimate winner, but he has the statistics that no other QB besides Marino has.

[Altitude5280]

the gig is up ass clown.

So you're attacking my fan status, eh? I've got tickets to the Raiders/Broncos game this Saturday, do you? I went to the last game to see the Ravens at Mile High, did you?

Who defines what a fan really is?

Is a fan a lemming that feeds himself a bunch of b.s. and ignore facts, and then starts namecalling when presented with said facts?

You tell me.

[Mile High Shack]

Fair enough. I'll give you that. But was Vance Johnson and Mark Jackson so much worse than Dwight Clark or Freddie Solomon? Was Ricky Patton in '81 better than Bobby Humphrey in '89?

Remember, Montana had 2 championships before Jerry Rice even entered the NFL.

Rice was a rookie in 1985

[Altitude5280]

Rice was a rookie in 1985

And how many titles did Montana have by 1985. Put your thinking cap on.

[DrFate]

Rice was a rookie in 1985

Never let facts get in the way of on-line opinions, MHS.

:)

[orange 4 life]

Again, more ad hominems, more attacking the messenger and not the message.

Are you people really afraid to debate the facts?

Just answer the question, all you homers calling ME out. I've manhandled this debate from start to finish like Super Bowl XXIV.

lets cover your extensive list of facts one at a time:

1) montana has more rings (wow. no sh!t moron. that shows nothing other than the fact that he played on better teams)

2) more people vote for montana (again, "wow" is the first word that comes to mind. more people would vote for brittney spears over john lennon but you'd be a real dipsh!t to think she has more talent)

ummmm, thats about it now wasnt it?

yeah you really manhandled it!! Hilarious!

how about arm strength, evasiveness, running ability, leadership, accuracy?

how about comparing coaching styles and surrounding talent?

that must just be way beyond you, since i DID cover those issues and your next "manhandling" was your awesome post where you said that people in san fran would vote for montana over young.
that one really blew me away too!! Ha!

go do your homework kiddo.
making you look stupid is too easy.

[Mile High Shack]

And how many titles did Montana have by 1985. Put your thinking cap on.

d'oh

point taken they won in 1984 season, not 1985 season

but my point remains b/c you brought up you can't compare different eras

Elway didn't come into the league till 1983, so the rings Montana won in 1982 and 1984 are out of Elway's era really

[Altitude5280]

[QUOTE=GreatBronco16]So this was his reason for coming here? To start up a Montana is better than Elway fight?[QUOTE]

Did I make this thread?

More irrational whining...

[DrFate]

According to Altitude5280, on-line consensus is equivalent to fact. (I'll disregard his ignorance of the definition of unanimous, although I feel we could get close to it on this poll...)

So I pose - who here feels that Altitude5280 is a moron?

:militia:

[GreatBronco16]

[QUOTE=GreatBronco16]So this was his reason for coming here? To start up a Montana is better than Elway fight?[QUOTE]

Did I make this thread?

More irrational whining...

Did I say you made the thread?

More idiotic stupidity.

[Antilles]

Elway will not get the respect that he deserves on an ESPN poll because of the west coast and east coast bias that undeniably exists in such unscientific ventures. You have to consider the source of the poll and the partakers. How many people in the country got to see Elway work the AFC over time and time again virtually on his own? How many of these people actually think for themselves? How many people are there from the Rocky Mountain region vs. the West Coast? How many of those voters are even old enough to remember either player? It's better to hear the take of an old-timer analyst (even though many of them have the same biases). Many of them take Elway over Montana.

The guy is possibly the best player in NFL history. No other player has had more of an impact on his team and on his region. I lived in Moore, Oklahoma as a child and became enamored with Elway after watching "The Drive." I have been a Bronco fan ever since. I doubt that Montana had near that effect on his fans with other guys like Rice, Taylor, Jones, Lott, and Craig on his team. Elway was above the game. His magic continued and his legend grew until his final game (where he won SB MVP).

No other player has won more games or led his team back from more deficits. Elway took a small market franchise to a seat among the top NFL franchises nearly on his own. Elway set the bar for late game heroics. Elway won tons of games that his team shouldnt have. Elway helped revolutionize QB'ing alongside Randall Cunningham. Elway was the ultimate QB. There is none better. Those other guys are great as well, but I dont think that any of them are better than Elway.

On Montana: you youngsters would probably understand Montana by comparing him to Brady (by using today's players in a comparative name-recognition example). Imagine Brady throwing to players of the calibur of Terrell Owens and Hines Ward (Rice and Taylor). With a TE like Todd Heap (Brent Jones). Then handing the ball off to a guy like Deuce McCallister (Roger Craig). Brady would be unstoppable with those weapons, right? Okay. Now you have an idea of what the 49ers gave Montana to work with.

With Elway, just look at Donovan McNabb. Now imagine McNabb dominating the league without anyone to throw to or to hand off to. Breaking records, constantly winning games with brilliant athletic plays, leading his team to the SB 5 times, constantly being a threat in the AFC, etc. Elway was a supersized McNabb with a gun for an arm, better scrambling ability, and a penchant for the dramatic. Elway was the ultimate winner. Period. Not only was he the ultimate winner, but he has the statistics that no other QB besides Marino has.

Absolutely fantastic post. To add further weight to your argument, notice that, in draft circles, John Elway is nearly universally considered to be the only guaranteed franchise player in history- not Manning, not Aikman, not Marino, not Brady, etc - and he became so leading that football powerhouse school out in Palo Alto. His entire football life Elway led mediocre teams to greater glory. As a football fan, I always wonder what kind of numbers John would have put upon on one of those 49ers or Cowboy teams (or if Reeves took the handcuffs off before the 2 minute drill once in a while). As a Bronco fan, I’m glad we’ll never know.

[NFLBRONCO]

take those two teams and swap qb's and miami wouldnt have uncorked the bubbly sunday.
take those two teams and swap qb's and you wouldve had an undefeated 49ers team.

also, who knows what the score wouldve been?

the broncos wouldnt have BEEN in the superbowl if montana was leading them.
montana wouldve been knocked out cold by midseason and the broncos wouldve struggled to an 8-8 or 9-7 record.


AMEN my thoughts exactly

[Bronx33]

So you're attacking my fan status, eh? I've got tickets to the Raiders/Broncos game this Saturday, do you? I went to the last game to see the Ravens at Mile High, did you?

Who defines what a fan really is?

Is a fan a lemming that feeds himself a bunch of b.s. and ignore facts, and then starts namecalling when presented with said facts?

You tell me.


Stop by the OF1 tailgate so they can stick your head in the hot tub..

[Master___Pain]

Elway will not get the respect that he deserves on an ESPN poll because of the west coast and east coast bias that undeniably exists in such unscientific ventures. You have to consider the source of the poll and the partakers. How many people in the country got to see Elway work the AFC over time and time again virtually on his own? How many of these people actually think for themselves? How many people are there from the Rocky Mountain region vs. the West Coast? How many of those voters are even old enough to remember either player? It's better to hear the take of an old-timer analyst (even though many of them have the same biases). Many of them take Elway over Montana.

The guy is possibly the best player in NFL history. No other player has had more of an impact on his team and on his region. I lived in Moore, Oklahoma as a child and became enamored with Elway after watching "The Drive." I have been a Bronco fan ever since. I doubt that Montana had near that effect on his fans with other guys like Rice, Taylor, Jones, Lott, and Craig on his team. Elway was above the game. His magic continued and his legend grew until his final game (where he won SB MVP).

No other player has won more games or led his team back from more deficits. Elway took a small market franchise to a seat among the top NFL franchises nearly on his own. Elway set the bar for late game heroics. Elway won tons of games that his team shouldnt have. Elway helped revolutionize QB'ing alongside Randall Cunningham. Elway was the ultimate QB. There is none better. Those other guys are great as well, but I dont think that any of them are better than Elway.

On Montana: you youngsters would probably understand Montana by comparing him to Brady (by using today's players in a comparative name-recognition example). Imagine Brady throwing to players of the calibur of Terrell Owens and Hines Ward (Rice and Taylor). With a TE like Todd Heap (Brent Jones). Then handing the ball off to a guy like Deuce McCallister (Roger Craig). Brady would be unstoppable with those weapons, right? Okay. Now you have an idea of what the 49ers gave Montana to work with.

With Elway, just look at Donovan McNabb. Now imagine McNabb dominating the league without anyone to throw to or to hand off to. Breaking records, constantly winning games with brilliant athletic plays, leading his team to the SB 5 times, constantly being a threat in the AFC, etc. Elway was a supersized McNabb with a gun for an arm, better scrambling ability, and a penchant for the dramatic. Elway was the ultimate winner. Period. Not only was he the ultimate winner, but he has the statistics that no other QB besides Marino has.

That's a fantastic post Llama, it's too bad this nOOb will not address or acknowledge anything in it.

If there is a more tired debate on Football message boards than greatest QB of all time I have not seen it.....There are about 5 Qbs that can lay claim to best of all time of time with valid points and counter point to all. Anyway, back to the newbie bashing

[Spider]

I love this place .............

[RaiderH8r]

Again, that's not a fact, it's an opinion.

Got a link to prove that?
Yeah, how many rings did Montana win with KC?ROFL!

[TheDave]

Yeah, how many rings did Montana win with KC?ROFL!

He did give them a playoff win... Isn't that the same to KC fan ROFL!

[RaiderH8r]

I love this place .............
Nothing like walking into somebody's house, taking a dump on the couch, and wondering why they continue to beat you about the head and neck.

[Circle Orange]

Geez, I was kinda hoping to see my guy Craig Krenzel on the list...

[RaiderH8r]

He did give them a playoff win... Isn't that the same to KC fan ROFL!
And that seals it. From the evidence presented in this thread, this pecker catcher is a Chef fan. I still think it's boob or one of his relative/siblings (same thing)

[Sideburn]

So you're attacking my fan status, eh? I've got tickets to the Raiders/Broncos game this Saturday, do you? I went to the last game to see the Ravens at Mile High, did you?

Who defines what a fan really is?

Is a fan a lemming that feeds himself a bunch of b.s. and ignore facts, and then starts namecalling when presented with said facts?

You tell me.
Are you telling me that because you are blessed enough to live in Colorado and can make it to home games that you're a better fan? They're attacking your fan status because of the ridiculous statements you keep making. Hanging your argument on 55-10 in a mismatch game on paper and in reality isn't doing you justice. But if you want to use a head to head matchup as a basis for your argument you would be better served using the 28-24 MNF game in Denver as a better argument. If you think Montana was a better qb than Elway, fine. But atleast come to the table with some legitimate argument. You hold the SB rings won over Elway like they're the benchmark for a qb, yet dismiss it for Bradshaw. They used your argument against you, and you dismiss it quickly, going off on a tangent about Bradshaw being a country bumpkin from BFE Louisiana.
To continue on the SB wins a player makes, does it work for other positions too? Is Terrell Davis a better RB than Barry Sanders? Is Daniel Graham a better TE than Tony Gonzales?
You can't base an argument over merits won and lossed by a team.
I don't even like to base arguments over stats, as it took more than Elway to complete a pass.
When discussing the best ever I like to look at intagibles. What did that person bring to his team and the game is what makes someone great in my book. Did this person make those around him better, or did the ones around him make him better? How did said person or persons change the way the game is played? How much heart does said person have? When the chips were down, how did the player respond? You know, stuff like that.
It's easy to be a great player surrounded by great players. It's not easy to be the one great player that has to make everyone around you better.
Otto Graham completely changed the game of football. What you watch today is because of him. For that, I am greatful, and he will continue to, and always will be my #1 qb of all time. He revolutionized the game of qb, and game of football.
Elway is my #2 for what he not only did to a franchise without an identity, but for a city wanting to be bigger than it really is. John Elway is Denver. He will always be Denver.
To actually witness a man put a team on his shoulders and convince them that they were going to win despite being down by 14 points with little time left, and then actually do it, is what makes Elway the legend he is.
Superbowl wins are great. And I wouldn't trade the two we have now for anything in the world. But I also wouldn't trade the losses, the comebacks, the down years, the man sitting on a billboard until denver finally snapped it's losing streak, staying up late to watch Denver lose on MNF, the crying, and the heartache for anything aswell. All the crap that we went through in the 80's and early 90's was repaid to us. And all that crap made those two years that much better. I still get teary eyed when I hear "This one's for John", or when I watch John's retirement press conference. Why? Because of what that man meant to me, my family, the city of Denver, and most importantly his team. Until a niner fan can convince me that Montana meant that much to them, their family, their city, and their team, Montana will forever be behind Elway.

So, with that said...Opinions are great, and thats all this **** is, is opinions. Having an argument over it is retarded and a waste of good bandwidth.

[Master___Pain]

Are you telling me that because you are blessed enough to live in Colorado and can make it to home games that you're a better fan? They're attacking your fan status because of the ridiculous statements you keep making. Hanging your argument on 55-10 in a mismatch game on paper and in reality isn't doing you justice. But if you want to use a head to head matchup as a basis for your argument you would be better served using the 28-24 MNF game in Denver as a better argument. If you think Montana was a better qb than Elway, fine. But atleast come to the table with some legitimate argument. You hold the SB rings won over Elway like they're the benchmark for a qb, yet dismiss it for Bradshaw. They used your argument against you, and you dismiss it quickly, going off on a tangent about Bradshaw being a country bumpkin from BFE Louisiana.
To continue on the SB wins a player makes, does it work for other positions too? Is Terrell Davis a better RB than Barry Sanders? Is Daniel Graham a better TE than Tony Gonzales?
You can't base an argument over merits won and lossed by a team.
I don't even like to base arguments over stats, as it took more than Elway to complete a pass.
When discussing the best ever I like to look at intagibles. What did that person bring to his team and the game is what makes someone great in my book. Did this person make those around him better, or did the ones around him make him better? How did said person or persons change the way the game is played? How much heart does said person have? When the chips were down, how did the player respond? You know, stuff like that.
It's easy to be a great player surrounded by great players. It's not easy to be the one great player that has to make everyone around you better.
Otto Graham completely changed the game of football. What you watch today is because of him. For that, I am greatful, and he will continue to, and always will be my #1 qb of all time. He revolutionized the game of qb, and game of football.
Elway is my #2 for what he not only did to a franchise without an identity, but for a city wanting to be bigger than it really is. John Elway is Denver. He will always be Denver.
To actually witness a man put a team on his shoulders and convince them that they were going to win despite being down by 14 points with little time left, and then actually do it, is what makes Elway the legend he is.
Superbowl wins are great. And I wouldn't trade the two we have now for anything in the world. But I also wouldn't trade the losses, the comebacks, the down years, the man sitting on a billboard until denver finally snapped it's losing streak, staying up late to watch Denver lose on MNF, the crying, and the heartache for anything aswell. All the crap that we went through in the 80's and early 90's was repaid to us. And all that crap made those two years that much better. I still get teary eyed when I hear "This one's for John", or when I watch John's retirement press conference. Why? Because of what that man meant to me, my family, the city of Denver, and most importantly his team. Until a niner fan can convince me that Montana meant that much to them, their family, their city, and their team, Montana will forever be behind Elway.

So, with that said...Opinions are great, and thats all this **** is, is opinions. Having an argument over it is retarded and a waste of good bandwidth.


Damn dude, that was top shelf. Again, too bad the n00b will fail to acknowledge a damn thing from your post.

[Mile High Shack]

Are you telling me that because you are blessed enough to ..........so on and so on

this is why it's so passionate for me when peope discount Elway, I sincerly have a giant mancrush on him, I'm not ashamed to admit it, hell, if he wanted me to go to Broke Back Mountain with him I'd probably say no, but I'd have to think about it :~ohyah!:

I'm glad I'm not the only dork who still gets mistey eyed when I hear Dave Logan saying, There goes Terrell Davis walking standing up into the endzone.....or him saying ok Bronco fans 31-24, Broncos leading in the 4th quarter of a superbowl....or seeing the look on Elway's face when Mobley knocked down the pass on 4th down.

I hugged a dude I had never known before in my life b/c he was a life long Bronco fan too when watching the 1997 superbowl..we embraced and jumped up and down like a bunch of women...why? B/C we love the Broncos and the Broncos are John Elway for most of us in our 30's and younger...he was the representation for our pain in the 80's and 90's and the representative for our pride of winning one finally in the late 90's.

oye......memories

Go Broncos

Go USA

[maven]

Useless poll. Everybody will have a difference of opinion. I'm happy with John Elway considered amongst the greatest(though I do believe he is the best).

[-Slap-]

So you're attacking my fan status, eh? I've got tickets to the Raiders/Broncos game this Saturday, do you? I went to the last game to see the Ravens at Mile High, did you?
So you're going to swing by the OF1 tailgate on Saturday, right Bronco fan?

[watermock]

Montana had Joe Walsh and an actuall defense.

Elway struggled fighting with Dan Reeves till Shanahan came back...

Also, Denver actually won 18 in a row over two seasons, and Miami never won B2B....

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

In the various sub divisions of trolls, clearly the most gutless and pathetic are the ones who come in here masquerading as Bronco fans.

The Truth

[RaiderH8r]

I think we've chased it back under the bridge. Well done.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Debartolo spent $1.5 million on a PR agency to prop up montana. That is why all of the sportcasters suck his sack.

Probably 10 better in history including Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Young, Farve, Petyton (ducking my head), Stabler (ducks again) and Elway.

[RaiderH8r]

Debartolo spent $1.5 million on a PR agency to prop up montana. That is why all of the sportcasters suck his sack.

Probably 10 better in history including Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Young, Farve, Petyton (ducking my head), Stabler (ducks again) and Elway.
****Throwing things****

[Northman]

Yea, most people would say that Montana is the best even though i disagree. Elway had to do a lot more with a lot less but its really just a matter of opinion anyway. Ive long given up worrying about what a poll has to say about it.

[Broncos Rule]

Joe Walsh - LOL

Re: misty eyed: I no longer cry when I see the tape, but hearing Logan - "Can you say Denver is in the lead!!" still gives me shivers..

[Sideburn]

Joe Walsh - LOL

Re: misty eyed: I no longer cry when I see the tape, but hearing Logan - "Can you say Denver is in the lead!!" still gives me shivers..
I still cry like a little bitch with a skinned knee...

[Broncos Rule]

Debartolo spent $1.5 million on a PR agency to prop up montana. That is why all of the sportcasters suck his sack.

Probably 10 better in history including Baugh, Graham, Unitas, Starr, Staubach, Young, Farve, Petyton (ducking my head), Stabler (ducks again) and Elway.


Nice list.

I like lists that include the old dudes..

Best 10 QB's of all time is a far more interseting conversation anyway.

[Willynowei]

IT was 55-10. Not 21-20. Not 17-14. Not 55-52.

55-10.

I don't care who the teams are, this is the NFL and that was the Super Bowl. The least Elway could've done is threw a couple TDs.



So you need to be a biased homer to have an opinion, is that where you're going with this?



Woulda, coulda, shoulda. The Marino fanatics say the same thing.


There are many things you could say to try and prove Montana a better QB and make some sense....

this is not one of them.

[FADERPROOF]

the vast majority of sports fans don't follow football enough to understand why Elway was a vast superior QB to Montana, they see his rings and assume he was the best

Along with that, I'll add that the vast majority of espn.com voters arent old enough to live through both Montana's and Elway's career. There are some who caught part of it and are into football enough to go back and make an accurate take on both QB's, but Id venture that most have not sat down and watcvhed both Joe Montana and John Elway play QB every Sunday while they were both active.

[orange 4 life]

We are all now dumber having listened to that...

LOL

thats why i said "loosely"!!

i knew i was forgetting part of it, and i thank you for reminding me!!

[FADERPROOF]

BTW, where the **** is Peyton on this list?

[Broncos Rule]

Ohh Baby! They're gonna win this thing!!!

[orange 4 life]

So you're attacking my fan status, eh? I've got tickets to the Raiders/Broncos game this Saturday, do you? I went to the last game to see the Ravens at Mile High, did you?

Who defines what a fan really is?

Is a fan a lemming that feeds himself a bunch of b.s. and ignore facts, and then starts namecalling when presented with said facts?

You tell me.

yeah i have tickets to this weeks game.
i have season tickets, and the two seasons we lived in new mexico i drove 14 hours round trip to see every game, often while having to work saturday and monday.

that aside, youre damn right i'm attacking your fan status.

youre not a bronco fan.
if you ARE a bronco fan, youre a disgrace to us all and you should
climb under a rock.

your takes are sh!t if they were coming from a raiders (or 49ers for that matter) fan, and theyre downright pathetic if you call yourself a bronco fan.

[orange 4 life]

....and you have yet to use even ONE fact that has any relevance.

not ONE.

...and every time youve been given an opportunity to actually break it down and make an argument, youve avoided it like the plague and come back with another "people would vote..." line.

[orange 4 life]

Waaah.

All you've done is attack me, which is the #1 sign you can't deal in facts.

Go ahead and ban the guy who has facts, become Broncomania.

if we're lucky.

youre a sh!tball plain and simple, and youve done nothing but get
smacked around for 7 pages.
youve trotted out the same irrelevant "facts" over and over again and ran from everything else.

youre a waste of space.

[orange 4 life]

FACTS:
Wins-Elway
Passing Yards-Elway
Rushing Yards-Elway
Super Bowl Starts-Elway
Playoff Wins-Elway
Come from behind wins-Elway

Montana Legacy-Left under stench addled dung heap of KC
Elway Legacy-Legend
Response?


ahhh hell.
fvck ALL the stats.

all ANYONE had to do was simply WATCH the two play.
the pass to mark jackson elway threw in the '86 afc championship montana wasnt capable of throwing.

arm strength- elway (by a mile)

elusiveness in the pocket- elway (by a mile)

running ability- elway (by a mile)

leadership- tie (and im being generous)

accuracy on short passes- montana

accuracy on long passes- elway

effectiveness in the 2 min drill- elway (though montana was very good here)

ability to make those around him better- elway (by a mile. see vance johnson and ricky nattiel after leaving denver and jerry rice after montana left san fran for evidence)

now watch everyone while rainman comes back with another pearl about what people would vote for if polled. ROFL!

[orange 4 life]

Stop by the OF1 tailgate so they can stick your head in the hot tub..

thats what i was thinking too.

only reason i didnt say it is i think the guy is full of sh!t.

[BroncoBuff]

For pure skills - and skills alone - I'll take Steve Young.

Passing accuracy, velocity
Scramble, run, improvise
Rarely, RARELY a mistake

Other guys had more FIRE, though. For that, Elway #1

The guy gave away a $12,000 pool table because he lost on it.
There's gotta be a few chapters of psych-babble on that kinda thing.

[orange 4 life]

So you're going to swing by the OF1 tailgate on Saturday, right Bronco fan?

LOL

you know there's no way thats happening!!

[orange 4 life]

Joe Walsh - LOL

Re: misty eyed: I no longer cry when I see the tape, but hearing Logan - "Can you say Denver is in the lead!!" still gives me shivers..

i get misty eyed every time.
cant help it.

cried like a baby when it first happened, and clips of it still choke me up.
obviously "this ones for john", but also a couple of logans calls.

"oh man. denver's gonna win this thing!!", and "you can stand up and salute bronco fans. the world champs live in your town." still get me every time.

[orange 4 life]

For pure skills - and skills alone - I'll take Steve Young.

Passing accuracy, velocity
Scramble, run, improvise
Rarely, RARELY a mistake

Other guys had more FIRE, though. For that, Elway #1

The guy gave away a $12,000 pool table because he lost on it.
There's gotta be a few chapters of psych-babble on that kinda thing.

thats why i told dipsh!t that montana wasnt even the best qb on his own team.

had young played his whole career with the niners and started all along he's the one qb that had all the skills to compete with elway for best ever.

[Rock Chalk]

What an entertaining thread.

Full of rash remarks, astute points, clever quips, great memories and, most of all, a good smacking of some so-called Bronco fan.

If you are a bronco fan and Elway is not the #1 QB of all time in your book, well, you are not a Bronco fan.

Thats like being a Chicago fan and saying Jim Brown was the greatest RB ever. Just ****ing stupid.

[orange 4 life]

what a joke.

the idiot stick comes here pretending to be a bronco fan, and as soon as he's confronted with REAL facts and the knowledge that we have an orangemane tailgate he turns tail and runs.

what a shocker.

[BroncoBuff]

These are fun - I insert mho in RED


arm strength- elway (by a mile) Jeff George or maybe Randall Cunningham

elusiveness in the pocket- elway (by a mile) Fran Tarkenton

running ability- elway (by a mile) Steve Young

leadership- tie (and im being generous) Elway, Unitas, Montana

accuracy on short passes- montana Steve Young or maybe Sonny Jurgenson

accuracy on long passes- elway Steve Young or maybe Marino

effectiveness in the 2 min drill- elway (though montana was very good here) Elway, Montana, Tom Brady

I'LL ADD: Fire and WILL to win: ELWAY! maybe Bradshaw some

ability to make those around him better- elway (by a mile. see vance johnson and ricky nattiel after leaving denver and jerry rice after montana left san fran for evidence) Elway and maybe Montana.

[orange 4 life]

These are fun - I insert mho in RED

.

it was montana vs. elway, though i agree with alot of your suggestions if we were talking about all players instead of just the two.

[orange 4 life]

If you are a bronco fan and Elway is not the #1 QB of all time in your book, well, you are not a Bronco fan.


ive been criticized for questioning fandom before, so im glad to see that on this one you agree.

[BroncoBuff]

There's TWO KINDS of arm strength, I'm thinking - DEEP and FAR (Elway, Randall) and then there's VELOCITY (Jeff George).

Something about George's ball- it seemed to actually gain velocity as it went through the air.

Too bad he's a fire-breathing jerk . . .

[BroncoBuff]

it was montana vs. elway
Sorry, no WONDER! I thought you were being a little narrow-minded there . . .


my bad :captain:

[Northman]

Montana had Joe Walsh and an actuall defense.




Was he singing ' Life's Been Good ' by chance? ;D

[Rock Chalk]

ive been criticized for questioning fandom before, so im glad to see that on this one you agree.
Generally I don't criticize fans of the Broncos. I dont like it when people criticize my fanship.

But this guy is just a ****ing tool.

[orange 4 life]

There's TWO KINDS of arm strength, I'm thinking - DEEP and FAR (Elway, Randall) and then there's VELOCITY (Jeff George).

Something about George's ball- it seemed to actually gain velocity as it went through the air.

Too bad he's a fire-breathing jerk . . .

i agree that there's two kinds of arm strength, though i disagree on your assesment.

there have been quite a few players who could throw it as far as elway (cunningham, george, and even kordell stewart) but NO ONE that could get it from point a to point b as fast.
george had a strong overall arm, but not even he had the velocity on the ball that elway had.

[orange 4 life]

Generally I don't criticize fans of the Broncos. I dont like it when people criticize my fanship.

But this guy is just a ****ing tool.

amen brother alec!!

[Rock Chalk]

i agree that there's two kinds of arm strength, though i disagree on your assesment.

there have been quite a few players who could throw it as far as elway (cunningham, george, and even kordell stewart) but NO ONE that could get it from point a to point b as fast.
george had a strong overall arm, but not even he had the velocity on the ball that elway had.
Eh, Vick might have just as much or more velocity. Same goes with Favre.

Favre, IMO, is probably the only QB in history that is comparable in style and ability to Elway.

Edit: Note that does not mean better or that other QBs are not as good, just that to compare, you will find more similarities between the two than differences.

[Northman]

Heh, ill tell you what. O4L has just been relentless on this assclown. Can you say Ownage? lol

[No1BroncoFan]

55-10.
Quite possibly the greates TEAM of all time beat up on the best of a weak AFC. Montana was not the TEAM. Hello! The '9ers of the 80s were the best TEAMs money could buy.

Ben

[Rock Chalk]

Quite possibly the greates TEAM of all time beat up on the best of a weak AFC. Montana was not the TEAM. Hello! The '9ers of the 80s were the best TEAMs money could buy.

Ben
Rathman, Rice, Craig, Lott, Montana

Just to name a few.

Jesus Craig was so underrated on that team. Rathman was a beast and well, then you have the GREATEST OF ALL TIME (WR).

If MOntana DIDNT win those Superbowls, he would have been the WORST QB EVER.

Fact that he did just meant he Trent Dilfered his way to championships. Hey, more power to him. Doesnt make him the greatest ever.

[Elway 4 Life]

Rathman, Rice, Craig, Lott, Montana

Just to name a few.

Jesus Craig was so underrated on that team. Rathman was a beast and well, then you have the GREATEST OF ALL TIME (WR).

If MOntana DIDNT win those Superbowls, he would have been the WORST QB EVER.

Fact that he did just meant he Trent Dilfered his way to championships. Hey, more power to him. Doesnt make him the greatest ever.

Dont forget taylor who would have been a #1 RCV on all other teams. We had the three midgits...i mean amigos.

[No1BroncoFan]

public opinion
That's all you need to say for me to regard your posts on the subject as irrelevant. Public opinions are based on emotion and perception way more than they are on fact. Montana's picture should be right next to the term "system player" in the encyclopedia. He was the ultimate system player.

Tell me this Nappy. If Joey M is so fvcking great, why couldn't he take those KC teams to a Superbowl? After all, he had a better offense around him than Elway had in '86, '87 or '89. Montana should have been the final piece of the Superbowl puzzle for KC. What happened?

Ben

[No1BroncoFan]

That's an opinion (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=opinion), not a fact (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fact).

Here are some facts:

Montana has 4 rings, Elway had 2.

Montana's 49ers beat Elway's Broncos 55-10 in the most important game of the '89/90 season.

ESPN poll voters unanimously think Montana is better than Elway as a quarterback.

You can't argue facts.

Telling me "ElwayisbetterIamnotahomer!" doesn't mean squat.
When Superbowl XXIV was played, were you even born yet? Give Joe all the credit for those rings if that's what makes you feel better. Point is, without the system and the players around him, Joe would have had a nice little career backing someone else up.

Ben

[Elway 4 Life]

I will say one thing for joe he was one of the most accurate passers of all time. That is about all I'll say. He has more rings than john and he was more accurate. That is all I'll give him nothing more. John was the best hands down.

[No1BroncoFan]

Please say no more about Titanic , I havent seen it yet , so dont spoil the ending ;D
Hey Spider. A little spoiler for 'ya. The boat sinks! ;D

Ben

[Tombstone RJ]

55-10.

How many HOFers did Super Joe play with on those teams (not including the coach)? I'll get the ball rolling with one name: Jerry Rice.

How many HOFers did Elway have on the three teams he took to the SBs in the 1980's?

Hmmmm.:kiddingme

[Elway 4 Life]

**** the Hall Of Fame!! The voters are so freakin blind they wouldnt know talent if it bit em in the arse.

[orange 4 life]

Heh, ill tell you what. O4L has just been relentless on this assclown. Can you say Ownage? lol

it was fun while it lasted!!

as soon as the dirtbag got exposed and had facts slammed down his throat he ran off like the little turd that he is.

[Sir Mawn]

I'll say this yet again: I don't even think Montana is the greatest QB to play in a 49er uniform.

Stand up, Steve Young.

[Northman]

I'll say this yet again: I don't even think Montana is the greatest QB to play in a 49er uniform.

Stand up, Steve Young.


I would agree with that Sentiment. Young was way more versatile than Montana.

[FADERPROOF]

It's like the movie Original Kings of Comedy, when D.L. Hughley was talking about racism and how some guys are racist but try to cover it up by saying things like "I'm not racist, Ive had 3 black people over!" and such, then contnues on to say,"If you need that qualifier and remember how many black people have been in your house...you're racist like a mother****er."

Same thing with this altitude5280, if you actually have to say "I'm a Broncos fan, I just attended the Ravens game!" then guess what? REAL Bronco fans don't need these qualifiers to try and prove that their a fan by talking about how they went to a game, they are not Bronco fans.

I took a friend of mine to the Cincy game last year, he doesnt even follow football that much, so is he a Broncos fan now?

[rodr88]

Why not add another two cents to the mix.

Best Systems QB, Montana, hands down, the guy took the talent around him and did everything he could with it, and talk about cool under pressure. I have to give him his props.

Best Field General. Johnny U. He called his own plays drawing some in the dirt. He was my all time favorite football player for many many years.

Most Athletic, Durable, hard nosed and fire to win. John Elway. He ran better than Fran, Threw harder than Terry, and played with less talent around him for most of his career than any QB I can think of.

All things being equal give me one of them to drive the ball the length of the field with the 89 49ers. Hell any one of them could do that.

Only one did it with the 86 Broncos going 98 yards. Only one HOF guy on the Broncos team that day. (In reality the only other two on that team that might even have a shot are TJ and Meck and TJ was at the end of his career) I know that Elway could do that one. Between the other two, it's not a contest, It would have to be Johnny U.

What does this prove. Not a damn thing. It's just the ravings of guy who relaxes from a hard day of dealing with psych patients in a jail, by getting on this site and reading the ravings of other people who for the most part appear to love the Broncos win or lose, as much as I do.

And to those trolls that don't love the Broncos. Raise your IQ and become a Bronco fan, there's room on the bandwagon, just be smart.

I return you to the regular scheduled insanity.

[BroncoBuff]

ahhh hell.
fvck ALL the stats.

all ANYONE had to do was simply WATCH the two play.
the pass to mark jackson elway threw in the '86 afc championship montana wasnt capable of throwing.

Okay, Orange, I was actually thinking about your Elway vs. Montana comparison stuff while I was OFFline (and that doesn't happen a lot). What I decided was that Joe Montana was part of a "thank-your-lucky-stars" kind of harmonic convergence that enabled him to be discussed in the same conversations as Elway and Young. What happened in SF in 1979/80 was an alignment of the stars - a troika of Joe Montana, Bill Walsh and Eddie DeBartolo. Each playing his part, the whole FAR greater than the sum of their parts.

And that begs the question: What kind of QB would Montana have been if he'd played on another team?

I thought on this awhile, and decided: Mark Brunell.

Although a lefty, obviously - the similarities are many: Brunell is about the same size as Joe, decent but unspectacualr arm-strength like Joe, he's smart, cool and accurate like Joe, and like Joe, he's not a great scrambler, but he keeps his eyes upfield when he does scramble like Joe did. And he, too, has something of a knack for comebacks (ahem!! 96 wild card game old mile high ... ahem!). The point is, unlike JOHN ELWAY, STEVE YOUNG, TERRY BRADSHAW, and others like them with incalculable skills and talent - Joe was a bit more lucky than good. On any other team, he wouldda been Mark Brunell. And the only way Brunell's gonna get to Canton is on www.travelocity.com (http://www.travelocity.com).

[Bronco Rob]

Barry Montanilow is the most overrated QB of alltime. I remember when he got punked by Steve Young and limped to KC. When he got here the best thing he did was to release his new hit single " I left my arm in San Francisco ".

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I thought on this awhile, and decided: Mark Brunell.

Although a lefty, obviously - the similarities are many: Brunell is about the same size as Joe, decent but unspectacualr arm-strength like Joe, he's smart, cool and accurate like Joe, and like Joe, he's not a great scrambler, but he keeps his eyes upfield when he does scramble like Joe did. And he, too, has something of a knack for comebacks (ahem!! 96 wild card game old mile high ... ahem!). The point is, unlike JOHN ELWAY, STEVE YOUNG, TERRY BRADSHAW, and others like them with incalculable skills and talent - Joe was a bit more lucky than good. On any other team, he wouldda been Mark Brunell. And the only way Brunell's gonna get to Canton is on www.travelocity.com (http://www.travelocity.com).

I can see that comparison, but in his first couple of years, Brunnel could move around pretty well.

[NaptownChief]

I thought on this awhile, and decided: Mark Brunell.

Although a lefty, obviously - the similarities are many: Brunell is about the same size as Joe, decent but unspectacualr arm-strength like Joe, he's smart, cool and accurate like Joe, and like Joe, he's not a great scrambler, but he keeps his eyes upfield when he does scramble like Joe did. And he, too, has something of a knack for comebacks (ahem!! 96 wild card game old mile high ... ahem!). The point is, unlike JOHN ELWAY, STEVE YOUNG, TERRY BRADSHAW, and others like them with incalculable skills and talent - Joe was a bit more lucky than good. On any other team, he wouldda been Mark Brunell. And the only way Brunell's gonna get to Canton is on www.travelocity.com (http://www.travelocity.com).



You are missing the boat on Brunell a bunch. He was a 4.5-4.6 40 guy out of Washington that could scramble as well as any QB in the game at that time. Had a very strong arm but not incredibly accurate on touch passes which is exactly opposite of Montana. I was a huge fan of Brunell's but despite that I would be the first to say his biggest weakness was decision making in the clutch which again was exactly opposite of Montana. And Brunell was extremely strong (bench press around 400+ pounds) again exactly opposite of Montana.

Other than that they were exactly alike.

[errand]

Dan Marino is a joke of a selection...soon he shall disappear from all existence with no RING.

To say Dan Marino shouldn't be considered as the best ever because he never won a title is the same mentality that says Montana is better because he has 2 more than John.

If stats are the sole criteria, then Marino would win alot of polls. If it's titles and rings, well even Mr. 4 rings Joe Montana would take a back seat to Otto Graham, who took his team to 10 consecutive title games and won 7 of 'em.

[errand]

Barry Montanilow is the most overrated QB of alltime. I remember when he got punked by Steve Young and limped to KC. When he got here the best thing he did was to release his new hit single " I left my arm in San Francisco ".

Didn't Joe win a playoff game or two in KC? As for his being punked by Steve Young what does it say for Steve that Vinny ran him outta Tampa Bay? And why did it take almost half a decade in SF to supplant Joe Cool?

[errand]

If you had one game to play for the title most would take Montana over John....however if you had only one series of downs, or better yet only one play to win it all? John would probably win that poll.

[Spider]

yeah i have tickets to this weeks game.
i have season tickets, and the two seasons we lived in new mexico i drove 14 hours round trip to see every game, often while having to work saturday and monday.

that aside, youre damn right i'm attacking your fan status.

youre not a bronco fan.
if you ARE a bronco fan, youre a disgrace to us all and you should
climb under a rock.

your takes are sh!t if they were coming from a raiders (or 49ers for that matter) fan, and theyre downright pathetic if you call yourself a bronco fan.
Altitude .......

[orange 4 life]

I'll say this yet again: I don't even think Montana is the greatest QB to play in a 49er uniform.

Stand up, Steve Young.

i said that a long while back and the turdball (elevation idiotstick) attacked me like he had a clue.

when i confronted him with REAL facts, he unfortunately ran for cover.

anyway, youre right.
young was a much more talented player than montana.

[royr17]

Exactly, elway was wayyyyy more of an athletic QB than montana he benefited from have a killer team around him elway had to deal with mediocore year after year till the end when wwe fianlly got a running game to take the pressure off him.

Yea Montana basically had shiat around him in KC and he still almost led the Chiefs the Super Bowl.

Who did the Chiefs have ? Marcus Allen on the downside of his career and a pretty good Fullback in Kimble Anders but thats basically it.

[Mile High Shack]

Yea Montana basically had shiat around him in KC and he still almost led the Chiefs the Super Bowl.

Who did the Chiefs have ? Marcus Allen on the downside of his career and a pretty good Fullback in Kimble Anders but thats basically it.

almost counts now?

I can list a dozen qbs who "almost" made it to a superbowl but that doesn't mean they are worth a damn

[Master___Pain]

Yea Montana basically had shiat around him in KC and he still almost led the Chiefs the Super Bowl.

Who did the Chiefs have ? Marcus Allen on the downside of his career and a pretty good Fullback in Kimble Anders but thats basically it.

Nice arguement, I'm convinced.....::)

[Mile High Shack]

Nice arguement, I'm convinced.....::)

Jim Harbaugh must be the greatest QB of all time then, I mean he almost led the Colts to the superbowl one year

[jonny1]

Yea Montana basically had shiat around him in KC and he still almost led the Chiefs the Super Bowl.

Who did the Chiefs have ? Marcus Allen on the downside of his career and a pretty good Fullback in Kimble Anders but thats basically it.

Wasn't the Chefs defense during the time of Montana one of the best in the league? Their OL was considered one of the best in the 90s; Allen was the premier short yardage RB; in 1993, they won the West at 11-5.

Elway took the Broncos with Sammy Winder at RB to the SB, was he ever as good as Marcus Allen? Was the Broncos OL in the 80s ever as good as the OL of the Chefs in the 90s?

[BMF Bronco]

Jim Harbaugh must be the greatest QB of all time then, I mean he almost led the Colts to the superbowl one year
So Neil O'Donnell is up there as one of the top QB's, considering he led them to a SB in 96 and was "close" a couple of other times?:thumbs:

[Bronx33]

Nice arguement, I'm convinced.....::)

Ya what he said..

[Elway 4 Life]

Yea Montana basically had shiat around him in KC and he still almost led the Chiefs the Super Bowl.

Who did the Chiefs have ? Marcus Allen on the downside of his career and a pretty good Fullback in Kimble Anders but thats basically it.

I could be mistaken but the chiefs had a pretty good defense that year.

[BroncoBuff]

You are missing the boat on Brunell a bunch. He was a 4.5-4.6 40 guy out of Washington that could scramble as well as any QB in the game at that time. Had a very strong arm but not incredibly accurate on touch passes which is exactly opposite of Montana. I was a huge fan of Brunell's but despite that I would be the first to say his biggest weakness was decision making in the clutch which again was exactly opposite of Montana. And Brunell was extremely strong (bench press around 400+ pounds) again exactly opposite of Montana.

Other than that they were exactly alike.
No, you're right - I was really thinking of today's Mark Brunell. He seemed to move and throw and act a bit like Joe when he carved us up in the rain eight weeks ago. I was merely trying to make the point that Montana was quite fortunate to land in the lap of Walsh/DeBartolo, and that from a talent/skills paradigm, he does NOT compare with Elway/Young/Bradshaw. I was mostly drawing a parallel between:
1. The accomplishments and success Brunell has had with...
2. ... what Joe wouldda had if he'd gone elsewhere.

Unlike Elway and Young, who woullda been HOF candidates anywhere - if Joe Montana had gone to Chicago, Seattle, Atlanta, San Diego, Buffalo - he wouldda been a Mark Brunell. Smart and above-average with flashes of brilliance and a few Pro Bowls, but no shelf-fulla-Lombardis and a non-stop ticket to Canton.

[Merlin]

If you had one game to play for the title most would take Montana over John....however if you had only one series of downs, or better yet only one play to win it all? John would probably win that poll.
1 Game? Depends on the type of team they are leading
1 Series or Play- That is pretty obvious
How about 1 season or career? I would argue the first might be affected by the type of team you have (but it would be hard even then to pick Montana over Elway since many things can happen in a season). A career, again Elway would be the obvious choice (you could build any type of team around him and succeed [getting to the playoffs and the dance], the same cannot be said of Montana).

[enjolras]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that Montana was an incredible QB. The infamous game between Montana (Chiefs) and Elway was probably the most amazing display of Quarterbacking I've ever seen.. on both sides of the ball.

I think Elway is the best QB to ever play. He was as close to the complete package as you could possibly get. Strong arm, really good legs, could break tackles, ultra-competitive.... all of those things add up to the best QB of all time in my book.

But Montana was incredible at what he did. He made gutsy throws and was probably the calmest QB I've ever seen (with the possible exception of Brady). I'd feel pretty damn good about having either one of them on my team... but if I had a choice it would be Elway every time.

[enjolras]

on the whole arm-strength thing:

Elway had arm strength in a way that I just haven't seen since. Where George or Cunningham could put incredible zip on the ball over long distance (as could Elway), Elway had the most amazing dart that would cover about 15 yards and be headed DOWN the whole way. The pass that capped the drive could be thrown by only one human being on earth... it was straight as an arrow and the nose of the football was head downward the whole way. The strength needed to do that is almost unfathomable.

[Bronco Rob]

ERRAND SAID - "Didn't Joe win a playoff game or two in KC? As for his being punked by Steve Young what does it say for Steve that Vinny ran him outta Tampa Bay? And why did it take almost half a decade in SF to supplant Joe Cool?"


Gimmie a break, the Queefs were already a playoff team by the time Barry Montanilow showed up. Besides they also signed Marcus Allen that same year,and Marcus scored MORE TOUCHDOWNS that season than Montanilow did. Marcus was also voted team MVP not Barry Montanilow.

Dave Krieg played almost as much as nancy boy JoeTool did that season...
Learn the facts ERRAND before you make a bigger fool out of yourself.

[Circle Orange]

The only Quarterback Favre said was better than him was #7. And i mean the original, not all these #7s running loose now (Big Ben, Boller, Leftwich, Vick...)

Warren Moon said he'd put #7 in his top 2 of all time, because of what he did with virtually no talent (SEVERE lack of probowlers, something even the Marino apologists can't claim.)

[Circle Orange]

ERRAND SAID - "Didn't Joe win a playoff game or two in KC? As for his being punked by Steve Young what does it say for Steve that Vinny ran him outta Tampa Bay? And why did it take almost half a decade in SF to supplant Joe Cool?"


Gimmie a break, the Queefs were already a playoff team by the time Barry Montanilow showed up. Besides they also signed Marcus Allen that same year,and Marcus scored MORE TOUCHDOWNS that season than Montanilow did. Marcus was also voted team MVP not Barry Montanilow.

Dave Krieg played almost as much as nancy boy JoeTool did that season...
Learn the facts ERRAND before you make a bigger fool out of yourself.


I like Joe, but didn't he go out unconscious on the frozen tundra at KC?

[errand]

almost counts now?

I can list a dozen qbs who "almost" made it to a superbowl but that doesn't mean they are worth a damn

Yeah, but did they almsot lead the Chiefs to the SB? C'mon, even you have to admit that's a huge feat to accomplish......

[errand]

I keep hearing how Montana was surrounded by nothing but great players....so tell me (from memory please) who his top RB was in '81 when they won their first SB?

If you you know who it was, great....now tell me, was he any good?

[Northman]

I keep hearing how Montana was surrounded by nothing but great players....so tell me (from memory please) who his top RB was in '81 when they won their first SB?

If you you know who it was, great....now tell me, was he any good?


My Memory is a little vague on his early performances was the first one he was that the year that Clark made ' The Catch '?

[errand]

ERRAND SAID - "Didn't Joe win a playoff game or two in KC? As for his being punked by Steve Young what does it say for Steve that Vinny ran him outta Tampa Bay? And why did it take almost half a decade in SF to supplant Joe Cool?"


Gimmie a break, the Queefs were already a playoff team by the time Barry Montanilow showed up. Besides they also signed Marcus Allen that same year,and Marcus scored MORE TOUCHDOWNS that season than Montanilow did. Marcus was also voted team MVP not Barry Montanilow.

Dave Krieg played almost as much as nancy boy JoeTool did that season...
Learn the facts ERRAND before you make a bigger fool out of yourself.

TD scored more TD's than John did in ;97 and ;98...so should we cross John's name off the list? BTW how many QB's outscore their team's top RB?

What the hell does that got to do with whether or not Joe deserves consideration as the NFL's best all time? Gary Kubiak outplayed Elway in the '91 AFC title game vs Buffalo....does that diminish John's greatness? No, it doesn't now does it clown?

Ya know as much as we all love John, you shouldn't have to talk down Joe in order to build John up. Not to mention those 4 rings should have some bearing on Joe's placement in NFL history

BTW, you seemed to have forgotten that John's last season saw Bubby fricking Brister put up Elway-esque numbers in leading the team to 4 wins as a starter and 2 more in relief....so tell me fool, does that mean consideration for John as the NFL's best ever be withdrawn?

[errand]

My Memory is a little vague on his early performances was the first one he was that the year that Clark made ' The Catch '?

Yes, it was....now can anyone tell me who lined up on the other side as the 49ers #2 WR? Again kudos to you if you know....but again tell me, was he any good either?

[Northman]

Yes, it was....now can anyone tell me who lined up on the other side as the 49ers #2 WR? Again kudos to you if you know....but again tell me, was he any good either?


Well, im not going to say that Joe was a bad Qb cause he wasnt but i do agree that for MOST of his career he was surrounded by really good talent. Again, teams like the Ravens didnt really have a allstar Qb but they still won it so just because Joe managed to make it one Super Bowl without allstar talent doesnt really mean he is the best ever. IMO

[errand]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that Montana was an incredible QB. The infamous game between Montana (Chiefs) and Elway was probably the most amazing display of Quarterbacking I've ever seen.. on both sides of the ball.

I think Elway is the best QB to ever play. He was as close to the complete package as you could possibly get. Strong arm, really good legs, could break tackles, ultra-competitive.... all of those things add up to the best QB of all time in my book.

But Montana was incredible at what he did. He made gutsy throws and was probably the calmest QB I've ever seen (with the possible exception of Brady). I'd feel pretty damn good about having either one of them on my team... but if I had a choice it would be Elway every time.

Exactly.....there's more to playing the position than strong arm and incredible throws. I've seen Joe fumble the ball that kept his team out of the SB vs the Giants in '90....and I've seen the Broncos lose an AFC title game because John couldn't throw a middle screen pass. Joe was never rattled, even in the games the 49ers lost....just as no game was out of reach with John on the field.

I don't care if John is considered by the fans of other teams as the NFL's best QB ever...I just thank God that Irsay was an idiot, and that Mike took chance on an oft-injured RB outta Georgia

[orange 4 life]

The only Quarterback Favre said was better than him was #7. And i mean the original, not all these #7s running loose now (Big Ben, Boller, Leftwich, Vick...)

Warren Moon said he'd put #7 in his top 2 of all time, because of what he did with virtually no talent (SEVERE lack of probowlers, something even the Marino apologists can't claim.)

since we're on the topic of other qb's opinions, you can add dan marino to that list.
marino said elway is hands down the best to ever play the game.

[orange 4 life]

I keep hearing how Montana was surrounded by nothing but great players....so tell me (from memory please) who his top RB was in '81 when they won their first SB?

If you you know who it was, great....now tell me, was he any good?

the niners used running back by committee that year, and though none were that good (i dont know that anyone had over 500 yards?), they ran for 2000 yards as a team.

also, that line led by randy cross was excellent.
the receiving duo of solomon and clark wasnt outstanding, but good none the less.
similar to a rod smith/lelie duo where one is extremely dependable and the other has breakaway speed.

more importantly though is what that team had on the OTHER side of the ball.
the later niners teams (including the team that killed us) won with offense (with a pretty damn good defense too!!), but the '81 team won with defense.
have you checked their DEFENSIVE stats lately?

i believe they led the entire nfl in points allowed that year.
they allowed something ridiculously low like 14 or 15 points a game.
they werent the '77 broncos or the '00 ravens, but they werent too far behind either.
that was a PHENOMINAL defense, and joe just had to lead the way.

hey, i never said montana wasnt a very good qb.
he was.
top ten for sure.

he's just not the best ever, or even better than steve young.

jake

[errand]

Well, im not going to say that Joe was a bad Qb cause he wasnt but i do agree that for MOST of his career he was surrounded by really good talent. Again, teams like the Ravens didnt really have a allstar Qb but they still won it so just because Joe managed to make it one Super Bowl without allstar talent doesnt really mean he is the best ever. IMO

I'm with you...John was the best ever in my opinion because he was very good to great in all phases of the game, but I'm not gonna downgrade Joe Montana just because he won a SB with a talented team a few times....afterall John never won one until he had a talented team around him as well.

......but just as Mike surrounding John with better talent allowed him to show his true greatness, the fact that Joe Montana won a SB with Ricky Patton as his top RB (just over 500 yards rushing) and Freddie Solomon as his #2 WR (about 50 catches) and the fact that the 49ers had 3 rookie DB's starting against one of the NFL's top passers in Ken Anderson leads me to conclude that joe wasn't as overrated as his detractors claim he was.

Now if you're convinced that Ricky Patton and Freddie Solomon were any good, fine.....but their careers are similiar to those of Mark Jackson and Sammy Winder, who are often the names dropped when Elway supporters point to his obvious lack of a supporting cast in losing 3 SB's.

[orange 4 life]

BTW, you seemed to have forgotten that John's last season saw Bubby fricking Brister put up Elway-esque numbers in leading the team to 4 wins as a starter and 2 more in relief....so tell me fool, does that mean consideration for John as the NFL's best ever be withdrawn?

many people have pointed to those brister games when arguing AGAINST elways greatness.
my response is always the same, and im sure you'll agree.

that team was REALLY in sync, and that team ALSO knew elway was just out for a game or two.
they knew they just had to hold together for a short time until elway would return.
they all stepped up and rallied around bubby, but i think we all know things wouldve been different had elway missed the whole season.

for evidence of that all one needs to do is look at '99.
elway retired, and MANY people (especially in this area) said we'd win anyway.
i predicted 5-11 (and i hated doing it), and i wasnt far off.

people then point to the fact that terrell was injured, to which my response is ALSO the same every time.
terrell DID get injured, but not in game one.
with terrell playing that year, we went 0-4 and davis averaged barely 3 yards a carry.
most of the '98 team returned (and i know that the captains all were gone, but by and large it was the same team), and the absence of elway took us from being one of the best teams in history to being a bottom feeder.

2-8 the year before elway came into the league, and 6-10 the year after he retired.
that says most all anyone should need to know.

[Northman]

.....but just as Mike surrounding John with better talent allowed him to show his true greatness, the fact that Joe Montana won a SB with Ricky Patton as his top RB (just over 500 yards rushing) and Freddie Solomon as his #2 WR (about 50 catches) and the fact that the 49ers had 3 rookie DB's starting against one of the NFL's top passers in Ken Anderson leads me to conclude that joe wasn't as overrated as his detractors claim he was.

nah, i totally agree with you there. Im not going to throw Montana aside when it comes to greatness as ive personally always felt he was #2 next to John.

[orange 4 life]

Yes, it was....now can anyone tell me who lined up on the other side as the 49ers #2 WR? Again kudos to you if you know....but again tell me, was he any good either?

freddie solomon.
already said it.

was he any good?
well, he wasnt BAD.
like i said, i think similar to lelie (though lelies potential is drastically higher).

if i remember right solomon was the fastest player in the nfl that year?

again, that team revolved around defense.
when you give up barely 2 td's a game youre going to win alot with any halfway DECENT qb.
montana gets credit for being a leader and making plays when called upon, but please dont make it sound like he carried them.

[errand]

freddie solomon.
already said it.

was he any good?
well, he wasnt BAD.
like i said, i think similar to lelie (though lelies potential is drastically higher).

if i remember right solomon was the fastest player in the nfl that year?

again, that team revolved around defense.
when you give up barely 2 td's a game youre going to win alot with any halfway DECENT qb.
montana gets credit for being a leader and making plays when called upon, but please dont make it sound like he carried them.

I never said he carried them...I'm saying that it's ludicrous for some fans in here to say he doesn't deserve consideration as the NFL's best ever. I'm sure Roger Staubach never carried the Cowboys, and Bradshaw never carried the Steelers.....but for some fans to deny them their place in NFL lore because of that is ignorant.

[errand]

the niners used running back by committee that year, and though none were that good (i dont know that anyone had over 500 yards?), they ran for 2000 yards as a team.



Ricky Patton had just over 500 yards (530-550 Sammy Winder-like range)...but while it sounds impressive that they ran for almost 2,000 yards as a team, it was only good enough for 19th best in the NFL in '81 and their ypc was a meager 3.47 (good for 28th in the NFL)...so I stand by my take that his skill position weapons were no better than John's.

[Victor]

Is it too late to vote for Joe Kapp?

[clarker]

55-10.This almost too retarted to reply to.

Do you really believe if Joe Montana was QB for the Broncos that all of a sudden, the Broncos secondary could cover Jerry Rice and Co.? Or that the Broncos O-line would suddenly be able to block Charles Haley and co.?

Or that all of a sudden Ronnie Lott and the other Niner D-Backs would be unable to cover Vance, Mark the other Denver recievers.

If you want to make the argument that Montana was better use the argument that he was a more accurate passer or that he read defenses better. Of course I'll say that Elway was stuck in Reeves' offense for 10 years and Elway proved he could read defenses very well and was pretty damn accurate as well.

Throw out the QB's and the Niners were better from top to bottom. If you switched QB's before the game, the score would have been about the same.

[Circle Orange]

many people have pointed to those brister games when arguing AGAINST elways greatness.
my response is always the same, and im sure you'll agree.

that team was REALLY in sync, and that team ALSO knew elway was just out for a game or two.
they knew they just had to hold together for a short time until elway would return.
they all stepped up and rallied around bubby, but i think we all know things wouldve been different had elway missed the whole season.

for evidence of that all one needs to do is look at '99.
elway retired, and MANY people (especially in this area) said we'd win anyway.
i predicted 5-11 (and i hated doing it), and i wasnt far off.

people then point to the fact that terrell was injured, to which my response is ALSO the same every time.
terrell DID get injured, but not in game one.
with terrell playing that year, we went 0-4 and davis averaged barely 3 yards a carry.
most of the '98 team returned (and i know that the captains all were gone, but by and large it was the same team), and the absence of elway took us from being one of the best teams in history to being a bottom feeder.

2-8 the year before elway came into the league, and 6-10 the year after he retired.
that says most all anyone should need to know.

Bubby going against four of the worst defenses didn't hurt either. Even Sharpe said they were just waiting for John to get back.

Remember the game against the Packers in what, '96? The one hailed as a SuperBowl preview? The Broncs rested John, and got blown out at Lambeau Field. The Packer players were pissed that the Broncs said 'hell, John wasn't there.' Favre said John wasn't 30 some points difference. The Broncs disagreed. It was pretty funny, actually...it was like Denver was blowing off the loss (the Pack needed it more, too) and the Pack all at one time.

[terry251973]

Ask marty schottenheimer who the best qb is.To say the least,the broncos of the 80s were not very talented at all yet they went to 3 super bowls.Without elway they would have maybe won 5 games per year.Other than elway,no other qb has carried his team to the superbowl like he did.

[Circle Orange]

Tom Brady says similiar things about John...Google search on article "The Brady Way Elway."

And Jim Kelly called him the 'King' of the NFL.

I'm always more impressed when other top players say such things. Let's face it, all these athletes are good and have pride. But when Hall of Famers give you the nod, THAT'S status.

[No1BroncoFan]

If you switched QB's before the game, the score would have been about the same.
Nope. Elway would have pulled himself from teh game much earlier than Joe did. Joe was taking advantage of a demoralized defense to set records.

Ben