Offer the HOUSE for the BUSH

[BroncoBuff]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.

[Bronco LB 59]

Bush is tailormade for Denver's zone blocking scheme. He would threaten Eric Dickerson's single season record in the Mile High City. Until it happens, its difficult for me to get overly excited about the possibility.

[BroncoBuff]

Bush is tailormade for Denver's zone blocking scheme. He would threaten Eric Dickerson's single season record in the Mile High City. Until it happens, its difficult for me to get overly excited about the possibility.
Fair enough, I agree.

But what would you offer? We have TWO first-rounders, and that doesn't happen very often.

[Bronco LB 59]

Fair enough, I agree.

But what would you offer? We have TWO first-rounders, and that doesn't happen very often.

The Chargers turned down an opportunity to trade 3 1sts to Baltimore for John Elway in 1983. They ended up with Billy Ray Smith, Gil Byrd and Gary Anderson. All three were solid players but Elway would have been the greater reward.

Reggie Bush is a once in a lifetime talent so I am still skeptical about whether that offer would be sufficient. Teams in Houston's position will glance back at scenarios such as 1983 Elway and their decisions will be influenced by them.

That being said, I think your offer is worth the risk, but busts like Peter Warrick and Rocket Ismail would make me take a deeper look. Not every athletic stud in college turns out to be great.

[eddie mac]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.

So you'd trade all we have for a player who plays in a position that is one of our strongest on the field, without even considering what we could do with those draft picks you're proposing to give away.

If you do that then I'd love to know how we're going to acquire offensive linemen to replace possible departures in Nalen and Lepsis, replace Rod Smith in 2007, back-up for Jake Plummer, speed rusher DL, DT alongside Warren if we're fortunate enough to keep him, replace John Lynch.

How many franchises have profited from giving up the house for 1 player. there's 53 on an NFL roster. Has Tomlinson won SD a Superbowl? Vick? Manning doesn;t win games for Indy on his own, he has an all-star cast now.

This would be the joke trade of the century, I wouldn't even give up our 2 1st rounders for any running back. We can run at will on nearly everyone in this league already with the RB's we have.

[Bronco Rob]

Lets not go Hershall Walker over Bush people. I would rather go d-line,

[BroncoSoja]

Lets not go Hershall Walker over Bush people. I would rather go d-line,

Yeah cause you know we have had so much success in the past with our Dline picks..

Im with the OP here I would give them Lelie if they will take him and the 2 first round picks this year and a 3rd from 07.. And for ****'s and giggles Plummer (since I think he is a mistake waiting to happen on the field)...

Im serious here I would give Houston all that just for Bush, and Im sure they would say we will just take the picks you can keep the others.

[elsid13]

So people are willing to pass up a potential starting LT (think Pace, Ogden, Zimmerman) and passing rushing DE (like Freeny) for a position that we have strong success in finding in later rounds. And throw a young player that is part of core of this team in the future. Ha let throw in Al, DJ and Darrent Williams while we at it.

[meangene]

I'd give both this years first round picks, Bell and Lelie. That's probably not going to be enough but I do think Bush is that good. I wouldn't part with next year's first or the seconds either. We do have other needs that will need to be addressed. I could live with addressing them later if we could get Bush.

[-Slap-]

The offer I thought was fair was 1A, 1B and Tatum. Gving up more than that doesn't make sense to me. If they want us to throw in Lelie, I want a lower round pick coming back.

[Elway 4 Life]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.

As much as I like to watch Bush, there are just to many questions about him that need to be answered. I would never give up 3 1st round picks for him. I wouldnt give up even our two for him. I like him but I dont like him that much.

[broncohaven]

I think the 49ers would be eager to get rid of the #1 overall pick. This is the salary cap era boys and girls, and signing two #1 picks in back to back years can destroy your cap. The 49ers need a lot of players, not just one stud. They have to sign Brandon Lloyd, and Julian Peterson as well. Two first rounders for the price of one might look very good to them.

Although I would like to see us address the DL with both first rounders, I would love to see us get Bush even more. I would give up both 2006 1st, and maybe a player or a later round pick, but not three first rounders.

[BroncosMT]

I don't know....I agree that I think Bush is a special kind of player....I'm skeptical because we have so many needs. We haven't had good success at drafting d-line in later rounds (the two from Clemson that stunk it up) and Watts came in a later round and we see where he is!!!! I think Bush will light it up in this league for years to come...but I think we can draft quality at RB in a later round.

[loborugger]

Lets go Mike Ditka, and give the Jets or Texans or 49ers, or however gets the #1 pick our whole flippin draft!!!

j/k

[ludo21]

Bush is a GREAT player, but he is not worth a bunch of our draft picks. We have needs that need to be addressed. Sure we arent great drafters, but maybe Shanny is learning, Fox/DW anyone, add in Myers as a future OL star here.

We run the ball basically at will every game with the backs we already have, it takes a TEAM to win a SB, not a player.

How many SB's have the aformentioned Vick, Peyton, LT won combined?? 0+0+0=0 Yeah they have 0 wins, or appearances for that matter. Nuff said.

[OrangeShadow]

this bush talk is getting to me,its so unrealisitc and im for speculation but this is just ridiculous

[Wes Mantooth]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.
Why? I don't get this. We have a system that is always in the top 10 rushing yards every year with no names. If there is a change at RB, go WITH DAYNE. He is tailor made for the system.

Why not address an area of glaring need? Tight End? OL? QB for the future?

[Taco John]

I think Bush would cost both our first rounders this year and our first rounder next...

[meangene]

I think Bush would cost both our first rounders this year and our first rounder next...

I think you are probably correct. Houston and SF have to think about PR and selling tixs. I do think that is too much though.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think it would be a total waste....we need receivers and a pass rushing DE more than we will ever need running back. Who actually knows what Bush can do at the pro level? The truth is he plays meager talent in the PAC-10 against freshmen on up. Can he block? He's gotta block. Plus...running back is our strength...strength because they take one cut and roll.....while reggie bush can certainly do this.....he did some east-west running in the highlights I was looking at.....I just don't think you throw away that many draft picks when you have running back as a strenght like we do.

[watermock]

No way...Bush's stock has never been higher, and we have other needs...Tater isn't in the dog house, he was banged up...sternum injury...he leads and NFL in YPC and you want to give him away along with both our #1's?

Hey, I like Bush as much as anyone, but he's no Elway...we still have a few holes to patch to be a dominant team, and that can be done with a good draft with multiple picks...plus, the #1 pick commmands a ton of cap space...

finally, remember that Bush is surrounded by tons of talent, including his coach and Leinhart..not to mention playing in the warm confines of SoCal...and playing in a rather weak conference....the price your willing to pay is not only ludicrous, it would be insane...again, I love the guy, but he's not the crown jewel or what this team is missing...

I like Bronco Billy's dumpster diving technique...too bad Bang shipped him off to Detroit to spite us....BTW...shouldn't we of gotten a #1 from Detroit for Bronco Billy? We was robbed!

[Elway 4 Life]

He has loads of talent and in the open field he is a monster. he reminds me alot of westbrook. I'm still not sure bush can run between the tackles consistantly for 16 games. I could be wrong but to me it's not worth our next 2 drafts to find out. We are solid at RB and need to many other pieces.

[watermock]

I think the 49ers would be eager to get rid of the #1 overall pick. This is the salary cap era boys and girls, and signing two #1 picks in back to back years can destroy your cap. The 49ers need a lot of players, not just one stud. They have to sign Brandon Lloyd, and Julian Peterson as well. Two first rounders for the price of one might look very good to them.

Although I would like to see us address the DL with both first rounders, I would love to see us get Bush even more. I would give up both 2006 1st, and maybe a player or a later round pick, but not three first rounders.

Wrong...the way our #1's are shaping up, both will cost less together than what Bush would command as a #1 overall. Right now, we are around 15 and 30...those picks won't break the bank at all..we could easily fall into a franchise LT at 15 after the glamor guys are taken...there are several good LT's...stick him in at guard for now till Lepsis retires...

Honestly, I haven't looked much at the draft yet...I'm still in our season...plenty of time for hand wringing over draft picks....

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I think Bush would cost both our first rounders this year and our first rounder next...

and he doesn't play QB, so there is no way he's worth that price

[Taco John]

and he doesn't play QB, so there is no way he's worth that price



I'd honestly give that up for Lienart. I am pretty sure I'd be ok with it if we did it for Bush too, though with our running system, I don't think we'd need to go there to get a good runningback.

[Moon§hiner]

I'd pass and keep the draft choices if I had any control of the organization...if our running game was a weak point maybe, but I'd still have to look at the damage it would do to the other weak points on the team in the long run.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'd honestly give that up for Lienart. I am pretty sure I'd be ok with it if we did it for Bush too, though with our running system, I don't think we'd need to go there to get a good runningback.

I wouldn't even be willing to give it up for Leinart, he might have the moxie to play, but he's not a physical freak.

Weird how the price people are willing to pay changes between FA and the draft. I'd much rather have a ton of picks to build a team cheaply, and then be able to target a couple highly sought after FAs to round out a team. A lot of people here would rather spread the money around in FA and target 1 or 2 players in the draft to go after, whatever the price.

[watermock]

I totally agree Rock...we can still go dumpster diving to pick up some loose trash...and keep our picks...again, I LOVE Bush...but I loved Bo Derek too...both are perfect 10's, but the Broncos have as much chance of landing Bush as I did landing Bo on my comforter...I don't care if SF is willing to part with that #1...of course they are...they only have as many holes as Halo Swiss cheese...and are allready robbing their bank to pay Alex Smith....they are much better served to save some dimes and get some picks...hell...they tried to trade down last year but the draft was so weak no takers...

[Northman]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.



No way.

[ozomulsion]

Once in a lifetime player for most teams. Not for our system though, this thread is silly.

[OrangeShadow]

*cough* MICHAEL HUFF *cough*

[SoCalBronco]

I cant believe anyone has said "I think we are going to have to give up more than Dwayne to get Reggie" yet. :)

I wouldnt even think of giving up anything to move up for a RB. We have shown we are ok in that area even with average players. We dont need talent to succeed at running the ball. Obviously Bush would raise our effectiveness in the run game to a whole new level, but its not worth a boatload of picks (and cap space) to improve on an area where we are naturally good with guys who make chump change. While he is undoubtedly the best player in the draft, he still has room to improve in the inside run game area which is something absolutely essential in our attack. If we are going to select a RB, a better pick would be to take his teammate Lendale White at 1A* or 1B since he is a jackhammer between those tackles and would truly be the perfect compliment to Tater's speed game. MA is aging is only decent in the power game.

*Id only be in favor of White as an option at 1A if Lepsis is resigned (OT need is gone), Warren is resigned and Brown as well as Pryce are restructured into more cap friendly deals. 1B would be alot better, but its a very risky gamble that he would be there.

[BroncoBuff]

Lets not go Hershall Walker over Bush people. I would rather go d-line,
I was thinking somebody would bring up the Herschel Walker debacle . . . but my response is: my basis for this thread - free agency and salary caps make the Vikings' hamstrung fallout from that mid-80s trade a NON-ISSUE in 2006!

[Nuggets4]

The offer I thought was fair was 1A, 1B and Tatum. Gving up more than that doesn't make sense to me. If they want us to throw in Lelie, I want a lower round pick coming back.

Problem is, while the Broncos would think this is fair, there is no way the team that has the #1 spot will give it up for anything short of the entire franchise. This is one of those situations where the #1 pick is just too valuable to deal. Imagine if SF gets the #1 pick and can bring Bush in, their fans would RIOT if they traded it for anything short of Peyton Manning.

*cough* MICHAEL HUFF *cough*

My anti-Texas bias is pretty well known around here but I would jump for joy if we got Huff. He's an absolute badass.

[minibronco]

Reggie Bush reportedly is ready to run into the NFL draft pool.

Citing several sources, the Los Angeles Daily News reported that Bush will turn pro. Bush already is being advised by Reebok representative Mike Ornstein.


http://espn-att.starwave.com/media/ncf/2005/1217/photo/u_bush_195.jpg
US PRESSWIRE Copyright (c) 2005 Jeff Lewis


Reggie Bush, a junior, and other college football underclassmen have until Jan. 15 to declare for the draft.
Officially, Bush, who practiced Friday for the first time since winning the Heisman Trophy, said he'll probably announce whether he'll return to Southern California for his senior season a few days after the Rose Bowl.

"Right now, my main focus is beating Texas," he said.

The 6-foot, 200-pound junior figures to be one of the top picks in April's NFL draft should he decide to pass up his final year of eligibility at USC. Underclassmen have until Jan. 15 to declare.

The top-ranked Trojans (12-0) extended their winning streak to 34 on Dec. 3 by beating crosstown rival UCLA 66-19, assuring them a berth in the Rose Bowl, where they'll shoot for an unprecedented third straight national championship against No. 2 Texas.

"We're making history right now," Bush said with a smile.

USC coach Pete Carroll said he'll address future options with several players next week.

"We're going to meet with the whole team first," he said. "Everybody has to know what's going on. We'll focus on guys who are under consideration. It's not time to make that decision."

The Trojans practiced last weekend, but Bush, fellow running back LenDale White and quarterback Matt Leinart were in New York for the Heisman ceremony. Bush and 2004 Heisman winner Leinart were finalists, while White, who shares the tailback position with Bush, was given permission to share the experience.

White is also a junior who is mulling his options. Despite playing the same position as Bush, he was a third-team All-American and holds the USC school record with 54 career touchdowns.

White rushed for 1,178 yards this season, averaging 6.7 yards per carry, while Bush gained 1,658 yards and averaged 8.9 yards per carry.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2263611

[broncos love]

Bush would be a fool if he didn't turn pro this year. Houston you are on the clock

[ludo21]

It will be a tough decision. Have one more year of a fun college experience dominating the PAc 10, or coming out and making millions while going to a crappy team and getting the crap kciked out of you everyday.

Money or Fun? idk.

[OrangeShadow]

the only downside is going to a team that will take a couple years. but think you could be the centerpiece of a teams revival. tempting ey?

[ludo21]

the only downside is going to a team that will take a couple years. but think you could be the centerpiece of a teams revival. tempting ey?


one thing Bush has going for him is a team like us, may really want him (that is, an established franchise). And then Bush would be a starter on a great team. Drafts a crap shoot so you just never know.

[broncos love]

IMO Matt Lineart made huge mistake by not coming out last year in heinsite. He is going to lose millions this year and will not be playing in California unless he drops to oakland, which I don't see happening.

[SoCalBronco]

IMO Matt Lineart made huge mistake by not coming out last year in heinsite. He is going to lose millions this year and will not be playing in California unless he drops to oakland.

That would be a dream come true if he went to Oakland. I could only wish for Greasy Al to waste a boatload of money on another scrub. That's right old man, take Matt, he's a real keeper.

[ozomulsion]

It will be a tough decision. Have one more year of a fun college experience dominating the PAc 10, or coming out and making millions while going to a crappy team and getting the crap kciked out of you everyday.

Money or Fun? idk.
If Bush were a QB you would have a point. The decision is a no brainer for a RB.

[Nuggets4]

IMO Matt Lineart made huge mistake by not coming out last year in heinsite. He is going to lose millions this year and will not be playing in California unless he drops to oakland, which I don't see happening.

Yeah. The year he spent hanging out, doing nothing but playing football and having SoCal co-eds fight over him must have been miserable for him.

[SJ Bronco]

last time we traded for a #1 draft pick it didn't turn out well at all. We needed so many things and all we got was this guy:

http://www.digi7.com/pwn/elway/images/pics/afc2.jpg

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

This thought is crazy. How'd the Walker deal turn out? It turned Dallas into a Super Bowl winner and destroyed the Vikings for years. How's the Ricky Williams deal turn out for Ditka and NO? Bush may be a great player and the next Gale Sayers (he hasn't proved it yet and remember his size is working against him) , but how many games did the Bears win with Sayers and he only had, what 4 productive years. Broncs are second in the league in rushing, behind only a team with a QB that can run but not pass, and you guys think it is worth mortgaging the future for a RB. Just plain crazy. The Broncs will add a RB someplace in the mid rounds of the draft. My choice would be the other Bush - Michael in the third round, or so, who is a true power runner and could learn under MA for a year and them become Tatum's power partner.

[DBroncos4life]

Keep the picks. Drafting two people to fill needs should improve the team more in the long run the one player in a position that we are strong in. Its not like this draft isn't going to be a good one either.

[-Slap-]

Problem is, while the Broncos would think this is fair, there is no way the team that has the #1 spot will give it up for anything short of the entire franchise. This is one of those situations where the #1 pick is just too valuable to deal. Imagine if SF gets the #1 pick and can bring Bush in, their fans would RIOT if they traded it for anything short of Peyton Manning.
.
Michael Vick was regarded by some as the best QB prospect since John Elway. The Chargers traded the number 1 overall pick in the draft to Atlanta for the number 5 pick, a third round pick, a second-rounder the following season and Tim Dwight. Worked out great for them, too, God rest John Butler's soul.

[Altitude5280]

Denver is #2 in the NFL in rushing offense with the committee approach. So why give away first day picks for a position we don't need, when you can use those picks for other positions? Denver is tied for 2nd to last in the NFL in sacks and is in the bottom 5 against the pass on defense. If you add a couple pass rushers, those sacks will go up and the passing yards allowed will go down bigtime. Besides, the big dog in the NFL is Indianapolis, and the way you disturb Manning is by putting pressure on him. You shouldn't waste a pick just because you have a hunch that a certain player is the next Jim Brown. That's how teams get burned in the draft.

[watermock]

Well, I think we have collectively beaten this guy down enough....heh...

I doubt there is a single poster here that wouldn't love to have Bush, but he's so overvalued right now it's insane...we need all of these picks, and if we need to move around a little, we have enough of them to do it...we will get two more for Kenoy and Hayward...

As long as we don't pull another Turkey draft out of our asses, if we can get half of them to be productive, it's a success...I'm not sure, but we might wind up with 5 first day picks....both Kenoy and Hayward have started and played fairly well...might give us 3's at least 4's...Hayward probably a 3...I don't know the scheme to determine it honestly...it's like some witches broth...

I wish this stupid game was at mid-day...why do they make a night game in Titonka in late December?

[Ray Finkle]

I was thinking somebody would bring up the Herschel Walker debacle . . . but my response is: my basis for this thread - free agency and salary caps make the Vikings' hamstrung fallout from that mid-80s trade a NON-ISSUE in 2006!


why trade all those "chips" for a position denver has shown to be the tops in the league in drafting.....

[-Slap-]

Denver is #2 in the NFL in rushing offense with the committee approach. So why give away first day picks for a position we don't need, when you can use those picks for other positions? Denver is tied for 2nd to last in the NFL in sacks and is in the bottom 5 against the pass on defense. If you add a couple pass rushers, those sacks will go up and the passing yards allowed will go down bigtime. Besides, the big dog in the NFL is Indianapolis, and the way you disturb Manning is by putting pressure on him. You shouldn't waste a pick just because you have a hunch that a certain player is the next Jim Brown. That's how teams get burned in the draft.

I understand what you're saying about the RBBC and its certainly been successful for us this season. The difference between the RBBC and a truly great running back can be measured by the NFL record seven straight 100 yard performances Terrell Davis put up in post season games.

I don't think the Mike Anderson/Tatum Bell/Ron Dayne paradigm would have gotten us past the Jacksonville leg of the Revenge Tour.

[-Slap-]

Who here believes that the current RBBC could have carried out the Revenge Tour?

[DBroncos4life]

Look at the people that are projected to be around our first pick.

Santino Holmes-Not my first pick at WR but he has SKILLS!!
Claude Wroten-I don't know much about him other then hes moving up the board fast.
Tamba Hali-He can play DT and DE, the size you would like in a DE.
Rodrique Wright-Many thought he would be a top 5 pick but he hasn't played to that level yet.
Micheal Huff-Can play coner or saftey.


Its not out of the question that we could land a player like
Bing, Hagan, Dumervil, or Mercedes Lewis with our second first round pick. The first round has lots of talent in my opinion and this is a good time to keep our picks.

[NFLBRONCO]

I will bite on this subject. Lets look at the whole picture on landing # 1 pick.


Say we offer 2 #1's in 06 draft a #1 in 07 draft and say Ash and Bell to land pick.

Let's talk Cap numbers of this deal what numbers are we talking if we got #1 overall? What shape would be in afterwards?

Can we even resign Warren or keep Pryce at even a reduced number landing Bush?

We would be weaker at DL WR along with S and OL with no #1's til 08. Seems like a bad move for 1 player even one guy I'd love having here.

[Nuggets4]

Who here believes that the current RBBC could have carried out the Revenge Tour?

That's a great point Slap. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have Bush lining up in our backfield (hell, on my Madden season I have going he is!), but we have too many other needs IMO to give up for him right now.

[-Slap-]

I will bite on this subject. Lets look at the whole picture on landing # 1 pick.


Say we offer 2 #1's in 06 draft a #1 in 07 draft and say Ash and Bell to land pick.

Let's talk Cap numbers of this deal what numbers are we talking if we got #1 overall? What shape would be in afterwards?

Can we even resign Warren or keep Pryce even a reduced number landing Bush?

We would be weaker at DL WR along with S and OL with no #1's til 08.


If we offered that king's ransom, I would say paying the first overall pick would be no problem.

It wouldn't take three number ones, plus two starters to make this deal.

[FantomForce]

Bush has the most amazing talent I have seen in a while, but we don't need him to make our running game great it already is, let's focus on improving the parts of the team that need it. Why fix it if it ain't broke???

[NFLBRONCO]

If we offered that king's ransom, I would say paying the first overall pick would be no problem.

It wouldn't take three number ones, plus two starters to make this deal.


What would it take then?

What about keeping Warren and Pryce in 06?

[-Slap-]

What would it take then?

What about keeping Warren and Pryce in 06?
Let's say our number ones are 15 and 30 in this strong and deep Draft.

I think 1A, 1B and Bell (who would be superfluous with Bush on the roster) is pretty solid package. Does anyone really know what kind of trade value Bell has throughout the League? Didn't Lamar Gordon pull a third round pick last year?

[SoCalBronco]

Look at the people that are projected to be around our first pick.

Santino Holmes-Not my first pick at WR but he has SKILLS!!
Claude Wroten-I don't know much about him other then hes moving up the board fast.
Tamba Hali-He can play DT and DE, the size you would like in a DE.
Rodrique Wright-Many thought he would be a top 5 pick but he hasn't played to that level yet.
Micheal Huff-Can play coner or saftey.


Its not out of the question that we could land a player like
Bing, Hagan, Dumervil, or Mercedes Lewis with our second first round pick. The first round has lots of talent in my opinion and this is a good time to keep our picks.

Holmes is too small. We need a big, thick possession guy. Holmes might be a slot WR in the pros only. I dont know much about Wroten. Hali is interesting. Wright would be GREAT. Huff...we'll see.
Wright would be tremendous though.

[ozomulsion]

I understand what you're saying about the RBBC and its certainly been successful for us this season. The difference between the RBBC and a truly great running back can be measured by the NFL record seven straight 100 yard performances Terrell Davis put up in post season games.

I don't think the Mike Anderson/Tatum Bell/Ron Dayne paradigm would have gotten us past the Jacksonville leg of the Revenge Tour.

Who believes Reggie Bush would end our non-championship streak? Not me. I'm sure you're saying something else here slap. But it sure doesn't seem like it. Fill me in bro.

[DBroncos4life]

Holmes is too small. We need a big, thick possession guy. Holmes might be a slot WR in the pros only. I dont know much about Wroten. Hali is interesting. Wright would be GREAT. Huff...we'll see.
Wright would be tremendous though.


I agree on Holmes, but he does make big plays. Hagan has the size that we would be looking for and he could be there with our second pick. Also Jackosn from UF should be around both picks. I really believe that if Quinn and Young comes out we have a chance to get one of the top two DEs, Williams or Kiwi.

[-Slap-]

What would it take then?

What about keeping Warren and Pryce in 06?
We're near the bottom of the League in sacks with Pryce and Warren. Are we going to do any better if we pay them both huge money next year?

I agree the most unattractive part about acquiring Bush would be paying him like the first pick. I think the price in draft picks might be fairly reasonable. We're the only team in the league with an extra number one and we'll have an extra four and two comp (thus untradable) third rounders as well. We also have some young talents who might thrive in different surroundings. I think we have plenty of leverage if we decide to be a player.

[-Slap-]

Who believes Reggie Bush would end our non-championship streak? Not me. I'm sure you're saying something else here slap. But it sure doesn't seem like it. Fill me in bro.
Reggie Bush alone? No, I'm not saying that.

I guess you want to draw that inference to avoid answering the question I posed: Would the current RBBC have gotten us past the Kansas City, Pittsburgh or Green Bay legs of the Revenge Tour?

I thought there might be one Terrell Davis fan present who would bother to answer that rather obvious question, but instead I get deflection.

[DBroncos4life]

Reggie Bush alone? No, I'm not saying that.

I guess you want to draw that inference to avoid answering the question I posed: Would the current RBBC have gotten us past the Kansas City, Pittsburgh or Green Bay legs of the Revenge Tour?

I thought there might be one Terrell Davis fan present who would bother to answer that rather obvious question, but instead I get deflection.


Jake Plummer might not have been enough to get us through the revenge tour either.

[eddie mac]

Reggie Bush alone? No, I'm not saying that.

I guess you want to draw that inference to avoid answering the question I posed: Would the current RBBC have gotten us past the Kansas City, Pittsburgh or Green Bay legs of the Revenge Tour?

I thought there might be one Terrell Davis fan present who would bother to answer that rather obvious question, but instead I get deflection.

I'd say a definite no but then again Plummer wouldn't have either and TD had Mr Elway and a superb offensive line.

[OrangeShadow]

Who believes Reggie Bush would end our non-championship streak? Not me. I'm sure you're saying something else here slap. But it sure doesn't seem like it. Fill me in bro.

3 words

Defense wins Championships

[DBroncos4life]

I'd say a definite no but then again Plummer wouldn't have either and TD had Mr Elway and a superb offensive line.


We had Elway, Sharpe, Ed, and TD. We had so much talent on those teams it wasn't even funny. I hear what slap is saying but we don't have have the greatest QB or TE to ever play the game on our team right now like we did back then. Keep the picks, and build for the future.

[-Slap-]

3 words

Defense wins Championships
That has really only been true twice in recent years. Besides Baltimore and Tampa, the last several Champions have been balanced teams, except the Rams, who were definitely an offensive team.

[SouthStndJunkie]

It would take a lot to get the overall #1 pick. Probably something along the lines of both our first rounders this year, a third this year, and a first rounder next year would be my guess. I would pass on that...too much to risk on one player other than a sure-fire franchise QB.

SSJ

[-Slap-]

For what its worth, I don't think we would have gotten through the Revenge Tour with Reggie Bush at running back, either. What Terrrell Davis accomplished that season was a very special thing. I get a little choked up just thinking about sometimes.

[Play2win]

I would give our two firsts for BUSH. I might even be so inclined to include TATUM. But thats it. In most cases thats not going to get it done. But for that price, I would pull the trigger.

Its all about what kind of dancing partner we can get. There are alot of dynamics that are invovled in Draft Day Trades, nowdays...

It takes two to dance, and if The Texans want to dance at that price, I'd be all for it...

[eddie mac]

For what its worth, I don't think we would have gotten through the Revenge Tour with Reggie Bush at running back, either. What Terrrell Davis accomplished that season was a very special thing. I get a little choked up just thinking about sometimes.

In those 4 games TD rushed for 581 yards and 8 touchdowns, bloody amazing.

[Sassy]

Keep the picks...why give them all up for one guy that has never played a down in the NFL.

[-Slap-]

Keep the picks...why give them all up for one guy that has never played a down in the NFL.
Its worked out for us before.

http://www.bashof.org/images/Elway.jpg

[Altitude5280]

Its worked out for us before.

http://www.bashof.org/images/Elway.jpg

That's the exception, not the rule. More often, giving away draft picks for one guy can come back to haunt you. In recent years, Jason Babin and Kyle Boller are a couple examples.

[GreatBronco16]

I want defense. With Plummer as our QB we are not gonna have a KC or Indy type offense. Defense is the key and Denver still has a lot to do to improve this D to a scary status that would actually make QBs like Manning hesitant when he drops back to throw. I want DLine and Saftey with our first 3 picks. Are there any other RBs coming out this year that are flying under the radar that would fit into this system? How bout just having Bell as the starter next year since he wants the ball, Anderson and Dayne(or another FA) as the #3.

Trade Watts if he can't relearn how to catch a football. Also, I think Van Pelt will be a good backup for Plummer. He is about the same size and speed, and just about as erratic, so we really won't be losing much if he had to play for a few weeks.


Defense, DEFENSE!!!!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Let's talk Cap numbers of this deal what numbers are we talking if we got #1 overall? What shape would be in afterwards?

Can we even resign Warren or keep Pryce at even a reduced number landing Bush?


Exactly what type of cap number do you think the #1 Overall actually has?

The deals for the Top 5 picks are so heavily based on incentives it isn't even funny. ESPN, SI, et al do a disservice by reporting the max deal possible when reporting the contracts that top picks sign. If those guys do max out their deals, they are more than worth their draft position.

[Cito Pelon]

I'd be pretty shocked if Denver tried real hard to move up to 1 overall. I support moving up from #28 or so where we'll probably be. I'd rather see two #1's in the top 12 than 1 overall. Package some lower picks to move up, I support that, but ther's no good reason to put all the eggs in one basket. I'd even support trading most of the middle round picks for a third #1 in the bottom third.

Denver already has enough middling type talent, they need multiple playmakers on O and D. Denver has a lot of options next draft, because they have good talent already, and they have a lot of draft picks. The team just need 2-3 more studs. There was some thread about Fireshanahan.com where the guy was saying "without Champ, Denver is 7-6 right now." Well, duuuuh. Add 2-3 more playmakers and the Broncs are 13-0. It's a possibilty to do that next draft. And it's cheaper to draft a stud than pay a stud FA.

[DBroncos4life]

the only guy I really would want to move up for right now would be Ngata. I'm not sure he is a lock for the top ten but who knows.

[watermock]

Offer the HOUSE for Bush? I make that deal..the rest is ludicrous...

[Broncoman13]

I'd move up for either of these three... NCST's Williams, UT's Young, or USC's Bush. You'd have to have the #1 to get Bush. You could probably get Young with a 3,4 or perhaps a 5. Williams goes anywhere in the top 10. Probably closer to #10. I'd go after him!... if I were set on trading up.

[broncohaven]

Wrong...the way our #1's are shaping up, both will cost less together than what Bush would command as a #1 overall. Right now, we are around 15 and 30...those picks won't break the bank at all..we could easily fall into a franchise LT at 15 after the glamor guys are taken...there are several good LT's...stick him in at guard for now till Lepsis retires...

Honestly, I haven't looked much at the draft yet...I'm still in our season...plenty of time for hand wringing over draft picks....
If you read my post, you woudl see that you just completely supported what I said. I said the 49ers need players, and would likely be interested in two 1st round picks for the price of one.

Pay attention Mock.

[broncohaven]

realistically speaking, I want Tamba Hali DE from Penn State. He's Dwight Freeney with a bigger motor.

[watermock]

So what if SF wants to deal that pick...you don't sell the farm...you pay attention...he isn't worth it....

Their wanting to deal means nothing to me

[DBroncos4life]

So what if SF wants to deal that pick...you don't sell the farm...you pay attention...he isn't worth it....

Their wanting to deal means nothing to me


Bush is worth it.

[watermock]

never mind...he's way over valued, would cost picks and would be expensive...

[DBroncos4life]

realistically speaking, I want Tamba Hali DE from Penn State. He's Dwight Freeney with a bigger motor.
It would be cool to land him and Wright. Those two on the DLine would be nice to have for years to come.

[ozomulsion]

As a one cut and go RB, DeAngelo Williams would be a better choice. Especialy if it comes to running the ball 20-30 times a game.

[elsid13]

As a one cut and go RB, DeAngelo Williams would be a better choice. Especialy if it comes to running the ball 20-30 times a game.

William would be outstanding in Denver. Strong inside runner with speed. Amazing player. Really good size 5-10 217 and speed 4.5 40 time

[DBroncos4life]

William would be outstanding in Denver. Strong inside runner with speed. Amazing player. Really good size 5-10 217 and speed 4.5 40 time


thats a slower time then Bell and they are the same size. I'm not saying he is a bad back but if we are going to draft a RB at all in the first round his last name better be Bush.

[GreatBronco16]

thats a slower time then Bell and they are the same size. I'm not saying he is a bad back but if we are going to draft a RB at all in the first round his last name better be Bush.

Then that would be the only offensive player Denver would get for the entire year. He will cost way too much to sign and to keep, cause you know after one year in Denvers system, he will be wanting a 7 year 80 million contract. So waste a pick on him? Go after what we need. Bell has a ton of upside. Our Oline is aging and won't be together much longer. Plus we need to address the defense big time.

No to Bush in 2006

[elsid13]

thats a slower time then Bell and they are the same size. I'm not saying he is a bad back but if we are going to draft a RB at all in the first round his last name better be Bush.


I don't think that we go 1st running back be it Bush or Williams. To many good offensive and defense linemen to take. Bell official line might be 214 be I ain't buying that, I always thought he was in the 195-200 range, remember Portis was supposedly up to 215 in Denver too. Williams looks like a solid 220 in his build and has plenty of speed.

[DBroncos4life]

Then that would be the only offensive player Denver would get for the entire year. He will cost way too much to sign and to keep, cause you know after one year in Denvers system, he will be wanting a 7 year 80 million contract. So waste a pick on him? Go after what we need. Bell has a ton of upside. Our Oline is aging and won't be together much longer. Plus we need to address the defense big time.

No to Bush in 2006


It doesn't work the way you guys seem to think. The Chargers have LT, Gates, Brees, and Rivers. They have all that talent with a back up QB with a 40 million dollar bonus. He isn't making that all in one year. Its spread out over his contract. Signing a top 5 pick doesn't mean we couldn't make more moves in the offseason. Sure it makes it tougher but you are also adding talent too your team. As far as him holding out after the first year you know thats just crazy talk, besides its not like we couldn't trade him for the world after that year.

[elsid13]

SD also had a ton of cap room and didn't spend any money in this off-season. The new cap is 92 million next year and Denver will need to do was reconfiguring to get under it. The 92 number was from Fox pregame show.

[-Slap-]

Then that would be the only offensive player Denver would get for the entire year. He will cost way too much to sign and to keep, cause you know after one year in Denvers system, he will be wanting a 7 year 80 million contract. So waste a pick on him? Go after what we need. Bell has a ton of upside. Our Oline is aging and won't be together much longer. Plus we need to address the defense big time.

No to Bush in 2006
Why do you assume he'll demand to renegotiate his (first player picked) contract after one season?

[Headless Hessian Rider]

Naaa , as long as he (bush) could get hurt and seriously injured early in his career, it's not worth throwing in so many firstrounders. Football is a team sport , better pick two or three good players and hope they will develop well.

[BroncoBuff]

Its worked out for us before.

http://www.bashof.org/images/Elway.jpg
Thanks for making the point of this thread again! Once-in-a-generation guys win championships, and unless you're a 2-14 team, there's only TWO WAYS to get one:

1) Crap-shoot, a la Terrell Davis or Tom Brady . . . or,
2) A BOLD MOVE.

so IF you believe Reggie Bush is such a guy - an Elway/Peyton/LT/Ray Lewis once-in-a-generation guy - then now is the time, because we VERY RARELY have two #1's to bargain with . .

PLUS, if Shanny's right that Tatum is a softie, then his value is maxed-out right now . . .

PLUS, we won't need him if we have Reg . . .

PLUS, it's the free-agent era, we cannot possibly be hamstrung like the 80s Vikings were after Herschel Walker . . . .

[Merlin]

It's like watching a bunch of high school kids play GM.

[BroncoBuff]

It's like watching a bunch of high school kids play GM.
I thought that was kinda the whole point of this board, Magic Man!

What's YOUR plan?

[SoCalBronco]

I agree on Holmes, but he does make big plays. Hagan has the size that we would be looking for and he could be there with our second pick. Also Jackosn from UF should be around both picks. I really believe that if Quinn and Young comes out we have a chance to get one of the top two DEs, Williams or Kiwi.

Hagan has excellent size, although im not sure about his hands. I am still seething over how he literally threw the ball from his hands into the U$C defender's after catching it. Jackson from UF is talented but he is dumber than a bag of rocks and has been exposed to very simplistic passing games under Meyer's scheme and Zaunbrecher's. One of the top two DEs would be fabulous as would be DT Wright of Texas or one of Winston/Scott at OT.

[Merlin]

I thought that was kinda the whole point of this board, Magic Man!

What's YOUR plan?
To have a little better understanding of football than a 16 year old. Trading a boatload of players for an area you are one of the strongest in the league at the expense of other areas that are in need of replinishing shows a poor understanding of football. A number of posters have tried to explain that to you, but it just seems to get past you. Thus, it is like a bunch of high schoolers playing GM.

[BroncoBuff]

To have a little better understanding of football than a 16 year old. Trading a boatload of players for an area you are one of the strongest in the league at the expense of other areas that are in need of replinishing shows a poor understanding of football. A number of posters have tried to explain that to you, but it just seems to get past you. Thus, it is like a bunch of high schoolers playing GM.
I just went back to check on that, and actually, the majority did not do that. Most replies discussed what it would take to get Bush. Go look - start on page 1.

Actually, I'm one of Tatum's biggest supporters on this board. What I said was, "if Shanny insists on keeping Tatum in the doghouse, what would it take?" MA has looked pretty ordinary the past 3 weeks, too - he looks tired to me.

Besides, finishing with appx 10 wins every year assures us we'll never have a shot at a guy like Bush - unless we make a bold move while we have 2 first rounders.

[Clockwork Orange]

Houston has holes everywhere, their O-line is brutal but it's far from being their only weakness. I'm pretty sure they'd be willing to at least listen to an offer that included multiple 1st round picks in this upcoming draft. Especially when you consider that this draft is rich with O-linemen, specifically left tackle.

But at the same time, you have to remember that the Texans are the team that somehow thought that Phillip Buchanon was worth a 2nd & 3rd round pick a year ago. If they thought that "Showtime" was worth that bounty (which anyone with two functioning brain cells could have told them he wasn't), how much value are they going to assign to that #1 pick? Their trade demands could reach the realm of the ridiculous.

I don't see it happening, but it does make for interesting discussion.

[Hulamau]

I'd sheat a brick if we got Reggie B. and love every minute of it!

[TexanBob]

Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy.

Then what generation is LT from?
Priest Holmes?
Edgerrin James?

I mean the dude has as many Heismans as our third string tailback. Bully for him.

[DBroncos4life]

Hagan has excellent size, although im not sure about his hands. I am still seething over how he literally threw the ball from his hands into the U$C defender's after catching it. Jackson from UF is talented but he is dumber than a bag of rocks and has been exposed to very simplistic passing games under Meyer's scheme and Zaunbrecher's. One of the top two DEs would be fabulous as would be DT Wright of Texas or one of Winston/Scott at OT.
There is alot of ways the first round could work for us. I would think that we would have good shot to add Hass in the second. He's our type of WR. I believe Le Kevin Smith yes a NU boy could be picked in the 3rd round helping out the DLine should we go DE and Saftey in the first round. I also think we will get a comp third pick. That would be a good time to find a OG that fits our system. Drafting a tackle in the first round wouldn't be a bad idea but that depends on Lepsis. I don't know why I bother to get my hopes up, after last years draft guessing what Mike will do is nuts.

[Spider]

Mike Ditka Lives ...............

[Cito Pelon]

I'd move up for either of these three... NCST's Williams, UT's Young, or USC's Bush. You'd have to have the #1 to get Bush. You could probably get Young with a 3,4 or perhaps a 5. Williams goes anywhere in the top 10. Probably closer to #10. I'd go after him!... if I were set on trading up.

I wouldn't mind seeing Young in a Bronco uniform. It seems like he has what it takes to have a long, solid NFL career.I usually don't pay much attention to college ball, but I remember last year a lot of people were mentioning him as somebody to watch out for, so I looked at him a little bit. He seems like he has good pocket presence, keeps his head up looking downfield as he moves around in the pocket, can run if he has to but shows patience before he takes off. Strong arm, good delivery, goes downfield a lot, doesn't just dump it off short as fast as he can, seems to understand the passing game well.

I like him. If the Broncs can get him at 4, 5 I wouldn't mind seeing a package of lower picks and a high pick from 2007 go to move up. It's gonna be interesting to see what the Broncs do, they have a lot of options with all the picks they have this year. I'd still hate to see giving up one of the 1's to move up, though. If that;s what it takes maybe they oughta do it, I don't know. Next year's #1 to move up might be better.

[Nuggets4]

I wouldn't mind seeing Young in a Bronco uniform. It seems like he has what it takes to have a long, solid NFL career.I usually don't pay much attention to college ball, but I remember last year a lot of people were mentioning him as somebody to watch out for, so I looked at him a little bit. He seems like he has good pocket presence, keeps his head up looking downfield as he moves around in the pocket, can run if he has to but shows patience before he takes off. Strong arm, good delivery, goes downfield a lot, doesn't just dump it off short as fast as he can, seems to understand the passing game well.

Do we really want to go through another learning process at QB as Radio learns how to read a playbook? I just think the Denver system might be a little too cerebral for him.

[BroncoBuff]

Then what generation is LT from?
Priest Holmes?
Edgerrin James?

I mean the dude has as many Heismans as our third string tailback. Bully for him.
He's better than Priest or Edgerrin, no doubt. In fact, he's just about the best I've ever seen. He runs east-west with supersonic velocity . . . I've never seen a guy pick up so many yards running crossfield. And, btw, I don't much care who wins the Heisman . . . the 49ers cut a Heisman Trophy winner just 15 months ago . . . Rashaan Salaam!

And by "generation" I meant Once in a Generation of a PARTICULAR TEAM . . not for football as a whole.

We had Floyd Little . . . then John Elway . . . now who?

[Merlin]

And by "generation" I meant Once in a Generation of a PARTICULAR TEAM . . not for football as a whole.

We had Floyd Little . . . then John Elway . . . now who?
THE DAYNE!














Sorry, I thought I would post for Majik since he is banned ;)

[oklahomabroncofan]

The broncos should do what ever it takes to get him. If we had him this year we would be competing for home field in the playoffs. I think he would have been the difference in at least 1 game possibly 2. Before I get crucified here me out. How many short yardage situations have our current RB's failed to convert. When we had Terrell Davis I knew on short yardage he would get the first. With this group it is up in the air if they will or not. I know Bush will convert those plays from what i have seen. Yes we have a great running system, but we do not have 1 complete back and Bush is this. I will go as far as this in my 20+ years of watching football he is one of the best talents I have ever seen. Know do I think we will do this, absolutly not. I think we will go with OG, DE, or S with or two first rounders.

[55CrushEm]

NO WAY !!! Why give a $60+ million contract to an unproven NFL rookie.....when we have (as a team) averaged more running yards over the past 11 years than ANY NFL team....with guys that get squat for money ??

:nono:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Bush has been a great college player, but that is no guarantee he will do the same in the pros. Danny Wuerful was a great college player. He may be great, but no one knows that now. The NFL is a much faster game and Reggie would be one of the smallest RBs in the league. He's not much bigger than Q and probably not as strong. His game is quickness and he won't have such an big advantage in the NFL. Not saying he won't be a star, but if you think it is a lock, you are buying the hype.

[TheDave]

Not sure what our salary cap looks like, but I'm guessing the #1 pick overall would do some serious damage to our cap flexibility over the coming years. I'll agree that R. Bush in our could be a monster, but if we had to gut the team to afford him, what good is that going to do?

[BroncoBuff]

NO WAY !!! Why give a $60+ million contract to an unproven NFL rookie.....when we have (as a team) averaged more running yards over the past 11 years than ANY NFL team....with guys that get squat for money ??
:nono:
Not sure what our salary cap looks like, but I'm guessing the #1 pick overall would do some serious damage to our cap flexibility over the coming years. I'll agree that R. Bush in our could be a monster, but if we had to gut the team to afford him, what good is that going to do?
I read that before Plummer got his huge bonus/bump last offseason - that Champ's contract was more than any TWO Broncos contracts combined. I love Champ, but THAT'S some real cap damage . . .

[freak6]

RB's dont last. QB's do. I posted on this when Vick was ready to come out, wish we'd have done it too. But as most have said, our running game is great, and if Bush blew out his knee he'd be worthless.

[Elway 4 Life]

Say no to bush!!! Reggie that is.

[BroncoBuff]

RB's dont last. QB's do. I posted on this when Vick was ready to come out, wish we'd have done it too.
I'm not sure I would trade Jake for Vick . . . maybe that sounds crazy, but I never like Vick when I watch him.

[Elway 4 Life]

I'm not sure I would trade Jake for Vick . . . maybe that sounds crazy, but I never like Vick when I watch him.

He's overated! He will be out of the league within the next 4 or 5 years if not sooner.

[BroncoBuff]

Do we really want to go through another learning process at QB as Radio learns how to read a playbook? I just think the Denver system might be a little too cerebral for him.
Calling Vince Young "Radio"? Does he have a rep for being dumb?

[Merlin]

The NFL is a much faster game and Reggie would be one of the smallest RBs in the league. He's not much bigger than Q and probably not as strong. His game is quickness and he won't have such an big advantage in the NFL.
Not only that, but look at the number of snaps he takes for the team. BTW OBfan, it is no guarantee that he will perform well in short yardage, especially since his own team does not use him that way. White might be a better choice if that is your requirement.

[Elway 4 Life]

Calling Vince Young "Radio"? Does he have a rep for being dumb?

I have not heard anything like that. IMO I think Vince will have a more prolific career than vick. I think Young will be a good QB on the next level.

[SoonerBronco]

How about the guy in my avatar...??? Why not wait a year and throw in everything for him??? I mean, the guy ran for over 1000 yards in 6 1/2 games, scored more TD's than last year and ran behind a patchwork offensive line. Adrian Peterson is a freak, and for a Sooner fan, it is sacreligious to say this, but AD would have rushed for twice as much behind the Trojan line this year. Peterson is the Herschell Walker of this day and age. Check out the holiday bowl and see for yourself!

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I think Petereson will be a very good pro, but he will need to change his style a little if he is to have a decent career. He runs so upright he takes some mean shots. Those will be even bigger in the NFL

[BroncoBuff]

last time we traded for a #1 draft pick it didn't turn out well at all. We needed so many things and all we got was this guy:

http://www.digi7.com/pwn/elway/images/pics/afc2.jpg
For heaven's sake - let's not do THATagain!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Elway 4 Life]

How about the guy in my avatar...??? Why not wait a year and throw in everything for him??? I mean, the guy ran for over 1000 yards in 6 1/2 games, scored more TD's than last year and ran behind a patchwork offensive line. Adrian Peterson is a freak, and for a Sooner fan, it is sacreligious to say this, but AD would have rushed for twice as much behind the Trojan line this year. Peterson is the Herschell Walker of this day and age. Check out the holiday bowl and see for yourself!

You got a point there sooner. If healthy he is a bad mamba jamba. He is a more physical runner than bush.

[Nuggets4]

Calling Vince Young "Radio"? Does he have a rep for being dumb?

Supposedly. Just rumors I've heard from some of my friends down in Texas.

The NFL is a much faster game and Reggie would be one of the smallest RBs in the league. He's not much bigger than Q and probably not as strong.

6'0", 200 lbs. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=145158) -- with the frame to put on more. I know he's done some working out with LT and LT just raves about his strength.

[oklahomabroncofan]

I would have to agree with soonerbronco Peterson is a freak. The only thing about him is he runs alittle to upright and takes a great deal of punishment. If you can change that he will be a good back. Again there is no gaurantee Bush will make it in the NFL. I am just tired of seeing short yardage situations and not being able to convert. I think this is the biggest weakness of our team and it needs to be addressed.

[SoonerBronco]

I would have to agree with soonerbronco Peterson is a freak.

Now...imagine him behind the Broncos O-line...scarry stuff. Watch out Erick Dickerson...

He does run up right, but so does Bell. When was the last time you remember Tatum taking a huge blow behind our o- line??

[Rock Chalk]

Bush won the Heisman. He has bust written all over him.

[BroncoBuff]

Bush won the Heisman. He has bust written all over him.
As in . . . Heisman . . . bust?

[BroncoBuff]

Now...imagine him behind the Broncos O-line...scarry stuff. Watch out Erick Dickerson...

He does run up right, but so does Bell. When was the last time you remember Tatum taking a huge blow behind our o- line??
You know, Adrian Peterson has been WAY OFF MY RADAR all year - the Sooners were bad, Buffs didn't play 'em . . .

Is he that good?

[TexanBob]

Getting Peterson is like getting Eric Dickerson. Getting Bush is like getting Gale Sayers. FWIW, I'd rather have Peterson but I don't think the Broncos need either one.

When you can plug fifth-round draft choices in at RB and turn them into stars, why waste first-round selections on one?

[Elway 4 Life]

Supposedly. Just rumors I've heard from some of my friends down in Texas.



6'0", 200 lbs. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=145158) -- with the frame to put on more. I know he's done some working out with LT and LT just raves about his strength.

6'0" = 5'10"
200lbs = 185lbs.

He's smaller than he is listed.

[Elway 4 Life]

I would have to agree with soonerbronco Peterson is a freak. The only thing about him is he runs alittle to upright and takes a great deal of punishment. If you can change that he will be a good back. Again there is no gaurantee Bush will make it in the NFL. I am just tired of seeing short yardage situations and not being able to convert. I think this is the biggest weakness of our team and it needs to be addressed.

How would bush help the short yardage situation? He is bells size.

[BroncoBuff]

Getting Peterson is like getting Eric Dickerson. Getting Bush is like getting Gale Sayers. FWIW, I'd rather have Peterson but I don't think the Broncos need either one.

When you can plug fifth-round draft choices in at RB and turn them into stars, why waste first-round selections on one?
You have a point . . . but part of my rationale in starting this thread was that "IF TATUM'S IN THE DOGHOUSE, THEN . . . " Don't get me started on how much I love Bell . . . Mike Tirico made a point during the Bills game the other night - he said "Bell is in some very rarified air." Meaning, the last time an NFL RB averaged over 6 ypc was Barry Sanders in 1997.

I know, I know - "if we run him more, BroncoBuff, his average goes down..." . . . . Maybe. But to be SURE that would happen, I guess you'd have to TRY! RIGHT, SHANNY? 5 carries vs. Kansas City was feloniouly stupid. Bell managed 42 YARDS WITH THOSE MEASLY 5 CARRIES!!

People say "he was hurt, BroncoBuff!" Not really. He was listed as "probable" before the game, and was NOT listed at all the Tuesday after it.

No, this is a "doghouse" - plain and simple. Maybe you can see why - Bell looks pretty p.o.'d when he comes off the field, and he gives interviews saying "I should be the man", but I like my RB's a little vain, as in, the previous #26 . . .

[Meck77]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.

No way. Even if Bush is a great as he appears to be he isn't worth that many picks. I'm not sure any player is. To win a championship you need depth not a single star player. Who wishes we were a little deeper with DB's right now for example? What could all those first round picks do to solidify that for next season? Or what about the d-line? We are seriously lacking in the sack dept right now. Want to know hot to beat Indy? See SD game and what their line did yesterday.

[Cito Pelon]

Do we really want to go through another learning process at QB as Radio learns how to read a playbook? I just think the Denver system might be a little too cerebral for him.

Hell, I don't know. I think probably, after all is said and done, Shanny will probably try to make a team on the cheap, and depend on his organizational and coaching ability to make a Championship by spreading the cap money around, not putting too much money into 1-2 players.

[BroncoBuff]

Shanny will probably try to make a team on the cheap ... spreading the cap money around, not putting too much money into 1-2 players.
Too late for that. Before Plummer's bonus/bump explosion happened in the offseason, Champ made more than any TWO BRONCOS combined. Now, with the Brown-cos on the cheap and so many rookies, I'll bet that: Champ + Jake = 25% of payroll.

Here's one way to save: DRAFT MASON CROSBY! Elam looks done to me, anyway. Save the dough.

[SoonerBronco]

You know, Adrian Peterson has been WAY OFF MY RADAR all year - the Sooners were bad, Buffs didn't play 'em . . .

Is he that good?

Funny that you say that, since OU was one screw job call away from being 8-3. And we beat the Fuskers in the Bugeater stadium.

Texan - don't agree with the comparison of Peterson to Dickerson. Peterson is phenominally strong running back. The tackles he breaks and the punishment he DELIVERS is far more than he recieves. Like I said. Look at his numbers this year with a high ancle sprain...His ability speaks for itself. If our O-line is just above average this year, he goes for 1500 easy with a high ancle sprain.

I'm telling you, watch the Holiday bowl game...you won't be disappointed.

[Rohirrim]

If the Broncos could get Bush with their two #1s and Tatum I hope they would pull the trigger. I doubt that would happen, though. Frisco or Houston would want more, and would get it from somebody else. The idea that Bush will be a bust is just flat ridiculous. He'll be another OJ. If the Broncos are looking at RB, Lendale White might still be on the board at 15 or 16, maybe even lower, if past drafts give any indication. He's a bona fide Bobby Turner type runner, one-cut, north and south. Plus, he's a home boy. But after watching McGinest at NE and Castillo at SD (especially against Indy), I'm convinced that the Broncos number one need is a pass rusher. If they use those two number ones to move up for anything, it should be that.

[Elway 4 Life]

Funny that you say that, since OU was one screw job call away from being 8-3. And we beat the Fuskers in the Bugeater stadium.

Texan - don't agree with the comparison of Peterson to Dickerson. Peterson is phenominally strong running back. The tackles he breaks and the punishment he DELIVERS is far more than he recieves. Like I said. Look at his numbers this year with a high ancle sprain...His ability speaks for itself. If our O-line is just above average this year, he goes for 1500 easy with a high ancle sprain.

I'm telling you, watch the Holiday bowl game...you won't be disappointed.

His accomplishments this year were on a s***y team. Sorry sooner! He still was very productive. I was very impressed with him last year. I think if eligible he would have been a 1st round pick.

[Pat Bowlen]

You know, Adrian Peterson has been WAY OFF MY RADAR all year - Is he that good?
Did you watch much college football last year?

I too would rather have Adrian than Reggie.

[SoonerBronco]

His accomplishments this year were on a s***y team. Sorry sooner! He still was very productive. I was very impressed with him last year. I think if eligible he would have been a 1st round pick.

This was a bad year for us :( But now with Chuck "Third and" Long gone to SDSU, we should have some balls on offense.

I think there is a poll somewhere in all of this....

[jonny1]

Put me down as someone who is on the "No way" side of trying to move up to #1 for a RB. To give up 2 #1s or more for a position that is arguably the first or second best on the team would be foolish.

Depending on how the draft unfolds, if the Broncos are picking 30-32 with the 1B pick, I wouldn't be surprised to see Shanahan trade down for more lower picks and a few more next year.

Why spend all your money on one guy when you could get 3-4 good football players for that money? When one knee injury would devastate the team (because you wouldn't have the depth behind him).

[Tombstone RJ]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.

Just how stupid are you?

[Pat Bowlen]

Just how stupid are you?
Keep reading.

[maven]

Defense! Defense! Defense! This team needs defense. Jimmy Williams, Huff, R. Wright, Mario Willliams, Tamb Hali, Kiwi, Dumervil . Build a solid defense & pick up a running back in the later rounds. Why are people so enamored with a small running back? Not very wise to sacrifice the future for a RB.

[Rock Chalk]

Seriously, this might be the dumbest thread idea ever.

[Tombstone RJ]

I'd sheat a brick if we got Reggie B. and love every minute of it!

Any team that gets Bush is gonna be fortunate. However, no way do I trade up to get him. Maybe, just maybe, I'd trade up for a blue chip DE, but he'd have to be a home run.

I think the Broncos should either keep their two firsts and take two players, or they should trade one of their firsts to another team. Trading down to a team like, lets say, for example, the Bills, or Browns, or Titans, who are trying to stockpile talent now, allows Denver to keep one first round pick, and hopefully get a low first round pick in 2007 too.

As I predicted before this season started, the Skins are going 9-7, no worse than 8-8. The Broncos are gonna have two first round picks in the twenties. Not great, but not crap either.

I don't mind the Broncos moving up to get a player, in fact, I'd love for that to happen, but, it depends on the player, and Bush ain't it.

[broncosteven]

In these days of free-agency and salary caps, players move around so freely, that a good GM should completely re-think the way players are acquired and kept. "Building through the draft" means something far different than it used to. Shanahan seemed to understand this when he shipped off this year's #1 to Washington, freeing 2005 dollars for free agents. I'm not sure which actual guy that trade freed up money for (Sauerbrun?), the point is - it worked. For now, anyway.

There is one thing, however, that you can't get OUTSIDE the draft: Franchise, once-in-a-generation players. Elway's the only one we';ve ever had, imo. LT, Vick, Peyton, - almost all the HUGE franchise, once-in-a-generation guys came in the draft.

So I ask you: What could we offer San Francisco (or whomever) for Reggie Bush? How about this:

BOTH 2006 First round picks
Our 2007 First round pick
Tatum Bell (I love the guy, but if he's in the doghouse, what good is he really?)

Is that enough? I'd offer the '06 and '07 2nd round picks, too. Why? Because, imho, Reggie Bush is a once-in-a-generation guy. LT material - Peyton manning, borderline Elway material. And, as a franchise, we win too many games to ever place high enough to acquire that kind of draft pick. It takes a bold move to get him.

Dude! you said BUSH!

BTW you talk too much.

[BroncoBuff]

I'd honestly give that up for Lienart.
You know - guys say I'm down on Jake, but I'm starting to thing maybe its ME who's the BIGGEST Jake fan around here. Why? Because I see him as our QB for the next 5 to 6 years, maybe more! He's durable as hell - knows the offense - his arm is underrated - and he's shown this year he'll take instruction.

What's not to like?

[sirhcyennek81]

Leinart is a good qb, who physically is not the type of QB denver would go after. Vince Young or Brady Quinn would be.

[BroncoBuff]

Leinart is a good qb, who physically is not the type of QB denver would go after. Vince Young or Brady Quinn would be.
Young scares me w/ that sidearm . . . too much like Kosar.

[sirhcyennek81]

Young reminds me of aaron brooks. can dazzle you one play, drive you insane the next. I like Quinn tho. Smart guy, picked up a weiss offense fairly quickly, good athleticism. sucks he will go to a crappy team next year.

[BroncoBuff]

Seriously, this might be the dumbest thread idea ever.Just how stupid are you?
Just keep reading.
Okay, okay! If you insist, we'll decide that question now. I'll scan my Mensa card into a thread, and you guys scan YOUR Mensa cards as replies, and then we'll see which of us are "smart" and which of us are "stoo-pid", cool? Whadd'ya say?

I am truly astonished at how a disembodied photo of Stephen Colbert over a guy giving his Broncos opinions can make y'all hate so much! Are we all just a bit too invested in this? This should be FUN! Besides, like I told AlecRaenos a month ago when he started hatin' . . . there's always the "Next Thread" link below . . . me and the International Brotherhood of Mensa advise you to . . . . . . click it!

[Pat Bowlen]

BroncoBuff1 writes his posts as though we were hooked on every word, dying just to read what he writes next.

[BroncoBuff]

BroncoBuff1 writes his posts as though we were hooked on every word, dying just to read what he writes next.
What part of "Click it!" don't you get?

[Pat Bowlen]

What part of "Click it!" don't you get?
Please keep in mind that I have no Mensa card to scan, and am therefore a dumbass.

[BroncoBuff]

BroncoBuff1 writes his posts as though we were hooked on every word, dying just to read what he writes next.
To be honest, you probably have a point there - I generally have a need to be heard, no doubt. And I don't mind a little drama - I just don't like the "you're an idiot" type posts, and I've been pulling those for the last few weeks especially.

It'd be different if they were like broncosteven - good natured stuff, but lots of them lately (esp. Alec, ozomulsion) have been mean-spirited and insulting. I just wanna have fun and talk BRONCOS.

[broncohaven]

I don't think Young will make it as a QB in the NFL. I think he'll be a great player, but not as a QB. I like Brady Quinn a lot, but he's going to a top 5 pick in '07. I, too, think that Jake is going to be our guy for the foreseeable future, and think that if we get a stud WR or two this offense could get really good in a hurry.

I think Devoe could become a great receiver in the next couple of years. He has TO size, and Lelie speed. When his route running improves he'll be one of the better WRs we've had in a while. He should shadow "The Old Man" in the offseason.

The defensive side of the ball looks really good for a few years (one stud DE away IMO), and the offense is a couple of guys from being very good.

I wouldn't discount BVP in the QB talk. I know he doesn't seem like the QB of teh future, but he's made plays every time he's been given the chance.

[broncosteven]

To be honest, you probably have a point there - I generally have a need to be heard, no doubt. And I don't mind a little drama - I just don't like the "you're an idiot" type posts, and I've been pulling those for the last few weeks especially.

It'd be different if they were like broncosteven - good natured stuff, but lots of them lately (esp. Alec, ozomulsion) have been mean-spirited and insulting. I just wanna have fun and talk BRONCOS.


It is funny that the longer you stay here you will see the same trend of certian posters going after new people the same exact way with no new originality at all, you will see what I mean in another 6 months or so, trust me. Brush it off chalk it up to experience & learn something from the thread. I enjoy posting with you BB1 I just don't have time to read everything you write. Edit it for time!

Personaly I just like to have fun, at both my expense & others (mostly others i.e. Boob's), add something to the community, & talk Broncos Football. I know I am not going to get along with everyone here so I stay away from those posters. Every once & while when we go out on a limb it may break, learn from the experience & move on...

[Traveler]

You know - guys say I'm down on Jake, but I'm starting to thing maybe its ME who's the BIGGEST Jake fan around here. Why? Because I see him as our QB for the next 5 to 6 years, maybe more! He's durable as hell - knows the offense - his arm is underrated - and he's shown this year he'll take instruction.

What's not to like?

Now if we can only do something about his accuracy problems. Especially his long ball accuracy.

[Kaylore]

Please keep in mind that I have no Mensa card to scan, and am therefore a dumbass.
Hilarious! Add me to the dubass list.

[Play2win]

Now if we can only do something about his accuracy problems. Especially his long ball accuracy.
That is really the only (atleast major) gripe I still have with Jake. It's just a shame that I value it (Accuracy) as the single most important aspect of a pro QB. He has gotten alot better in the 10-15 yard range, but still overall his accuracy is shaky. His deep ball is almost laughable this year...

That incredible catch ASH made Saturday night, should have been a TD, and fairly routine. But thats what you get with Jake. He definitely has his many attributes, You've got to take the SUGAR with the SALT...

[Elway 4 Life]

That is really the only (atleast major) gripe I still have with Jake. It's just a shame that I value it (Accuracy) as the single most important aspect of a pro QB. He has gotten alot better in the 10-15 yard range, but still overall his accuracy is shaky. His deep ball is almost laughable this year...

That incredible catch ASH made Saturday night, should have been a TD, and fairly routine. But thats what you get with Jake. He definitely has his many attributes, You've got to take the SUGAR with the SALT...

If we could find a RCV that could catch a 10-15 yard pass and take it to the house then I wouldnt care to much. He does need some work on his deep ball accuracy even though at times he's on the money (lelie's catch in the buff game).

[broncofan]

If I were the Niners, Texans, or whomever acquires the top overall pick, I would hop all over that trade.

[Play2win]

If we could find a RCV that could catch a 10-15 yard pass and take it to the house then I wouldnt care to much. He does need some work on his deep ball accuracy even though at times he's on the money (lelie's catch in the buff game).
I thought JAKE was OFF-TARGET on that throw. If he was on target, it was a TD. Oh, for having Carson Palmer here in Denver...

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Not sure what our salary cap looks like, but I'm guessing the #1 pick overall would do some serious damage to our cap flexibility over the coming years. I'll agree that R. Bush in our could be a monster, but if we had to gut the team to afford him, what good is that going to do?

The contracts of the top picks are so heavily based on incentives it isn't even funny. If any of those top picks hit their incentives, they're well worth the price.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Seriously, this might be the dumbest thread idea ever.

I don't know, we could be reading about a cat

[Broncoman13]

I'd give up both firsts for Kiwi and Huff... can I scan my "stupid" card?

[Willynowei]

Seriously, this might be the dumbest thread idea ever.

I agree.

I wouldn't want Reggie Bush just for the salary we'd have to pay him.

who the hell cares how good he is?

HE IS A RUNNINGBACK; thus, WORTHLESS IN DENVER.

THX.

[BroncoBuff]

I agree with King of Karma OSKIE when he said: "Reggie Bush will be better than LT and has the potential to be the best this game has ever seen." He also pointed out that Bush is 6' and 190 - and within a year he'll be comparable in size to Edgerrin and Portis. OSKIE also pointed out Reg is the 8th fastest player in ALL OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=893725&postcount=90 I appreciate that SoonerBronco and Pat Bowlen like Adrian Peterson, and I WILL WATCH the Holiday Bowl, but he's just a sophomore. His freshman year was phenomenal, I agree - but he gets lots of carries. Bush returns kicks and plays with Len-Traitor, so he got just 15 carries a game - and averaged an un-thinkable 8.9 per. And what's really wrong-headed, imho, are all the arguments that:"Why should we spend on a running back? The "System" means we can plug in anybody for a thousand yards."1000, yeah - but are you honestly saying that a freak of nature like Terrell Davis or Reggie Bush would NOT exceed the MA-Olandis-Droughns type committee numbers? Remember, when you get right down to it, TD won the Lombardis. -Slap- said it best:
The difference between the RBBC and a truly great running back can be measured by the NFL record seven straight 100 yard performances Terrell Davis put up in post season games. I don't think the Mike Anderson/Tatum Bell/Ron Dayne paradigm would have gotten us past the Jacksonville leg of the Revenge Tour.
I'm not sure what "paradigm" means (is it Thai food?) but I agree! Play2Win, too: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=893317&postcount=70

Alec, you disagree, fine. Just say so, like Sassy did. You don't have to go so far as to say:Bush will never be a top 5 back in the NFL ... this might be the dumbest thread idea ever.

I SAY AGAIN! Offer both first-rounders and Tatum, and throw in the '07 first-rounder if we must. It's the free agency and salary cap era, there's plenty of players out there - but just ONE Reggie Bush.

.

[Pat Bowlen]

I'm not sure what "paradigm" means (is it Thai food?)
So much for trying to convince us you're in Mensa.

[RhymesayersDU]

Hilarious! Add me to the dubass list.
How did everybody miss the mispelling of "dumbass?"

Making the whole post that much funnier.

[bendog]

The deep throw is not something Shanny has featured since The Duke retired, and it wasn't that big a deal in the Young SF teams (or Montana). Sure they chuck it long once in awhile, and sure Lelie is used to run off corners and push the safty(ies) deep, but complaining that Plummer can't throw deep accurately seems to me .... not seeing the offense that Shanny is running. He gave the keys to Blister, drafted SOB and gave him the keys, and recruited and retrained Jake. Conclusion: he's running a horizontal WC scheme with emphasis on run. He wants a mobile qb who will make decisions based on the WC scheme.

Has trading three no 1 picks and a player EVER worked out?

[BroncoBuff]

So much for trying to convince us you're in Mensa.
I am - I'm inna the Mensa rooma . . .

[enjolras]

Can't imagine giving up anything close to that much for a RB... just to close to injury on every play. Sell the house for a QB, but not a running back.

[Pat Bowlen]

I am - I'm inna the "Mensa" rooma . . .
That's how I imagined Colbert saying it in your avatar.

[Rock Chalk]

I agree with King of Karma OSKIE when he said: "Reggie Bush will be better than LT and has the potential to be the best this game has ever seen." He also pointed out that Bush is 6' and 190 - and within a year he'll be comparable in size to Edgerrin and Portis. OSKIE also pointed out Reg is the 8th fastest player in ALL OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=893725&postcount=90 I appreciate that SoonerBronco and Pat Bowlen like Adrian Peterson, and I WILL WATCH the Holiday Bowl, but he's just a sophomore. His freshman year was phenomenal, I agree - but he gets lots of carries. Bush returns kicks and plays with Len-Traitor, so he got just 15 carries a game - and averaged an un-thinkable 8.9 per. And what's really wrong-headed, imho, are all the arguments that:"Why should we spend on a running back? The "System" means we can plug in anybody for a thousand yards."1000, yeah - but are you honestly saying that a freak of nature like Terrell Davis or Reggie Bush would NOT exceed the MA-Olandis-Droughns type committee numbers? Remember, when you get right down to it, TD won the Lombardis. -Slap- said it best:

I'm not sure what "paradigm" means (is it Thai food?) but I agree! Play2Win, too: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=893317&postcount=70

Alec, you disagree, fine. Just say so, like Sassy did. You don't have to go so far as to say:

I SAY AGAIN! Offer both first-rounders and Tatum, and throw in the '07 first-rounder if we must. It's the free agency and salary cap era, there's plenty of players out there - but just ONE Reggie Bush.

.
****ing idiot.

You are willing to give away the chance at several possible stars for one possible star who has only carried the rock more than 20 times in 3 games in his collegiate career?

Get ****ing real.

BTW, paradigm means A "view" of how things work in the world.

[BroncoBuff]

Get ****ing real.

BTW, paradigm means A "view" of how things work in the world.
This is a "no-spam" zone, sir. I won't let you spam me.
Everyone here knows that "paradigms" are worth twenty cents - no more, no less.

What say you?

[bpc]

Well its tough to say on this issue. A guy like Bush gives you a weapon that transcends anything we've had at the HB position since TD, he is an even better product then CP was coming out. He can run, he has incredible moves (barry sanders'esqe) and he can catch the football like a WR. That gives you incredible versatility with your offense... just look at all the things SD can do with LT. He is not defensible. In our offense, a weapon like that would be deadly.

Then again we have to look at what we have or will have next year. Is our O-Line going to be in tact? Is there depth enough to look for players in later rounds? Are there other positions we need to take a look at?

I'll say this much. We always rush for a lot of yardage... do we have a difference maker that will put us over the edge though? Tatum Bell has game breaking speed but does he have a game breaking mentality? His hands are questionable at best and durability I fear, will always be an issue... besides, a swift wind could knock that man down. Mike Anderson is almost out of gas and is Dayne anything more then a 1 year rental? I will not lie... I hate having RBBC backfields... i think they limit you so much especially in a game when we will need a difference maker. It can take up to a quarter to find out who is going to be the guy for a certain game... in a matchup with the Colts, we could find ourselves down 14 or more when that happens after the 1st quarter and then we are already out of our gameplan.

There is a huge difference between this team and the ones we had in 97' and 98'... (barring any Elway vs. Plummer discussion of course) We had a back could count on always in the clutch. TD was everything a franchise back was supposed to be.

Would you sell the farm for a player of that caliber in this offense again? We got two super bowl titles out of it. Maybe he gives you 8 years... but you have the ammunition to do it. If you knew if you pulled this trigger you could get two more super bowls over the next 10 years, would you take that chance? I would.

I would load up for Bush if I could. I would offer the two first round picks. What is the talent going to be like at the end of the 1st round anyways? There could be a Marcus Nash or a Willie Middlebrooks sitting back there. If a team like Houston wants Tatum... take him. I'm thinking its more realistic to look at it like this though as a deal...

Trade two first round picks... that is going to cost us some money anyways. Throw Ashley in there as well. I love him, he is my boy, bad fit for this offense... he could do way better in another place where they actually consistantly throw to him. Trade up and take Reggie. We now have an open hole in our WR unit... make a push for Reggie Wayne, a larger version of Ashley who is more physical and is a free agent after the season. The Colts will have a hard time signing him because they have massive amounts of money tied up in Peyton, Harrison, some defense and they are going to try and keep EJ.

Other problems can be solved through the draft. We are looking at two third round compensatory picks at least for Denver coming from Reggie Hayward and Kenoy Kennady. We can restock on the offensive/defensive line with these early mid round picks. I say find a way to keep Lepsis (solid) and Nalen around for another year... if it isn't broken... :) Just my 411.

I'm not saying we should do it... but I wouldn't be against it either.

[Victor]

I think that not only is Bush the best running back to come out of college in 20 or 30 or 50 years, but probably the best athlete and humanitarian as well. I've heard that he also cooks like a gourmet and sews his own clothes.

We should trade our entire draft, our Super Bowl trophies, our vertical socks, Annamarie's fur coat collection...whatever it takes...to get him.

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THIS AMAZING YOUNG MAN WE MUST, MUST, MUST DO.

Because he's awesome.

[BroncoBuff]

I think that not only is Bush the best running back to come out of college in 20 or 30 or 50 years, but probably the best athlete and humanitarian as well. I've heard that he also cooks like a gourmet and sews his own clothes.

We should trade our entire draft, our Super Bowl trophies, our vertical socks, Annamarie's fur coat collection...whatever it takes...to get him.

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THIS AMAZING YOUNG MAN WE MUST, MUST, MUST DO.
Wait . . . you're making fun of me, right?

[Victor]

Wait . . . you're making fun of me, right?

No, not really. Just my clumsy attempt to share a cautionary tale about getting too carried away by one player.

[Play2win]

I think that not only is Bush the best running back to come out of college in 20 or 30 or 50 years, but probably the best athlete and humanitarian as well. I've heard that he also cooks like a gourmet and sews his own clothes.

We should trade our entire draft, our Super Bowl trophies, our vertical socks, Annamarie's fur coat collection...whatever it takes...to get him.

I'LL SAY IT AGAIN...WHATEVER IT TAKES TO GET THIS AMAZING YOUNG MAN WE MUST, MUST, MUST DO.

Because he's awesome.
Are you half joking and half serious?

Or are you 1/4 Joking and 3/4 serious?

Or are you 3/4 joking and 1/4 serious...

[Victor]

Are you half joking and half serious?

Or are you 1/4 Joking and 3/4 serious?

Or are you 3/4 joking and 1/4 serious...

I am ashamed to admit that this was total sarcasm. Sarcasm is the last refuge of the lazy...and I took refuge.

I'm sure that he'll be a nice player, maybe even great. But the hyperbole about "the best player in 20 years" seems farfetched. Barry Sanders was great and he didn't win squat.

I wouldn't give up the house, or even the shed to move up for Mr. Bush. Because you need a shed to store all the crap and clutter.

[BroncoBuff]

No, not really. Just my clumsy attempt to share a cautionary tale about getting too carried away by one player.
Well, you have a point - you and AlecRaenos. Don't "sell the farm" for one guy, don't put "all your eggs in one basket," and all variety of rurally-themed similes. But like I said, free agency and the freedom of player movement means there's very little danger of another 1980s Mike Lynn/Vikings/Herschel/"How 'bout those Cowboys?!" paradigm.

If we did manage this trade, I'm FAR more worried about a salary cap squeeze than a bare-cupboard draft . . . and I've got my fingers crossed for one "uncapped" year. See: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=892342&postcount=2

Besides, the salaries of the 2 #1 picks plus Tatum Bell's salaries must total somewhere near Reggie Bush money ? ?

[Victor]

Well, you have a point - you and AlecRaenos. Can't sell the farm for one guy. 'All the eggs in one basket' stuff. But like I said, free agency and the freedom of player movement means there's very little danger of another 1980s Mike Lynn/Vikings/Herschel/"How 'bout those Cowboys?!" paradigm.

If we did manage this trade, I'm FAR more worried about a salary cap squeeze than a bare-cupboard draft . . . and I've got my fingers crossed for one "uncapped" year. See: http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=892342&postcount=2

Besides, the salaries of the 2 #1 picks plus Tatum Bell's salaries must total somewhere near Reggie Bush money

Now you've gone and hit my sore spot. I grew up in Minnesota and suffered through 4 Super Bowl losses and the Herschel trade. Do you know how many times I've had to listen to announcers and commentators reference that trade disaster? It is the gift that keeps on taking. The pain that won't go away. The trade that haunts and keeps on haunting. It is the Minnesota version of Babe Ruth traded from the Red Sox to the Yankees.

And the worst thing about it is that the trade was with Dallas. This is the town that stole our hockey team. I hate Dallas.

[Play2win]

I am ashamed to admit that this was total sarcasm. Sarcasm is the last refuge of the lazy...and I took refuge.

I'm sure that he'll be a nice player, maybe even great. But the hyperbole about "the best player in 20 years" seems farfetched. Barry Sanders was great and he didn't win squat.

I wouldn't give up the house, or even the shed to move up for Mr. Bush. Because you need a shed to store all the crap and clutter.

Reggie Bush is more of a WINNER than Barry Sanders ever will be...

[Victor]

Reggie Bush is more of a WINNER than Barry Sanders ever will be...

Okay, how about Walter Peyton? He played on one championship team and many, many dogs.

My point is that one great player does not a team make, and as much as you are infatuated with someone it doesn't pay to put all your money on one horse.

The Pats are a great example. They have an awesome HOF quarterback that they picked up in what, the six or seventh round? What if they'd have given all their picks that year for the flavor of the day? They'd still be playing .500 ball with Drew Beldsoe.

[ozomulsion]

Reggie Bush is more of a WINNER than Barry Sanders ever will be...
Wonderful, we have a stupid post of the day winner. I'll bet Bush would help win many Super Bowls with Rodney Peete and Scott Mitchell at QB. Further more, Barry ran for almost 2700 yards his sophmore season. He had nothing to do with OSU not wining the National Championship. Are you ****ing brain dead or just retarded?

[Play2win]

Okay, how about Walter Peyton? He played on one championship team and many, many dogs.

My point is that one great player does not a team make, and as much as you are infatuated with someone it doesn't pay to put all your money on one horse.

The Pats are a great example. They have an awesome HOF quarterback that they picked up in what, the six or seventh round? What if they'd have given all their picks that year for the flavor of the day? They'd still be playing .500 ball with Drew Beldsoe.
Yeah, I know, it just still BURNS me that Barry went into the Hall the same year as ELWAY. It had to be the NFL's last stab at Broncos for the Hall of Fame. You can't Deny ELWAY, but were going try to take away as much of your fire away...

ELWAY was the consummate WINNER, Barry was almost exactly the opposite (loser...)

Barry even self-described he didn't like to play football. HE DIDN'T LIKE TO PLAY FOOTBALL?!?

Fv** him. Fv** Barry...

[Play2win]

Wonderful, we have a stupid post of the day winner. I'll bet Bush would help win many Super Bowls with Rodney Peete and Scott Mitchell at QB. Further more, Barry ran for almost 2700 yards his sophmore season. He had nothing to do with OSU not wining the National Championship. Are you ****ing brain dead or just retarded?
Barry is as much of a quitter as Quitterson...

Its my opinion and I believe it to be true. Don't rack on me because you see things a different way. Barry can fall off the end of the earth as far as I'm concerned. Screw him.

[ro_50]

Aint going to happen. Not even in your dreams.

[Pat Bowlen]

It had to be the NFL's last stab at Broncos for the Hall of Fame. You can't Deny ELWAY, but were going try to take away as much of your fire away...
Victim complex much?

[Rock Chalk]

Barry is as much of a quitter as Quitterson...

Its my opinion and I believe it to be true. Don't rack on me because you see things a different way. Barry can fall off the end of the earth as far as I'm concerned. Screw him.
:pity:

I hate to disagree with ya here. So I will keep it civil and just say, and I mean this with all due respect to you as a fellow photoshop artist and poster, but you sir, are retarded.

Please dont take offense.

[Rock Chalk]

Reggie Bush is more of a WINNER than Barry Sanders ever will be...
OK man, now im throwing out the niceties I allowed you.

[Play2win]

OK man, now im throwing out the niceties I allowed you.
Its all good. I might be a tad bit jealous of Barry. But the way he went out and all the quotes he had about really liking the game and all...

It just burned me soo much that Elway didn't have center stage and the only stage at HOF.

I like players that play with FIRE, and it seems that barry didn't do that that much. EXTREMELY TALENTED, though. There is no denying his god given outstanding talent.

It also burned me that he took TD's rushing championship that year he had 2,000, just the way he did it, I thought was kind of selfish.

He doesn't seem like a team player, he dissed my two favorite Broncos (to some degree) and I just don't like him. I definitely don't like him (as a football player).

So ALEC, I think I let my emotions get involved with a few earlier posts, Because Barry is an awesome football player, albeit not one I personally like, but a few of the comments I made in the earlier post were stupid and were a stupid thing for me to say. I was wrong for saying some of those things...

[Pat Bowlen]

It also burned me that he took TD's rushing championship that year he had 2,000, just the way he did it, I thought was kind of selfish.
Hahaha.

[ozomulsion]

So ALEC, I think I let my emotions get involved with a few earlier posts, Because Barry is an awesome football player, albeit not one I personally like, but a few of the comments I made in the earlier post were stupid and were a stupid thing for me to say. I was wrong for saying some of those things...

Stupid is the under statement of the year.

[Play2win]

I still don't like the man. I could care less where he went to College. I don't put weight in where NFL went to school as to how good an NFL player there are going to be. Like some people do here. The Player proves it on the field. THE PRO FIELD. I could give a rat's ass where he went to school. I don't like the man, never have. And I have serious questions as to how much he really helps a team.

I would take TD 10 out of 10 times over Barry Sanders.

[Pat Bowlen]

I have serious questions as to how much he really helps a team.
You should probably elaborate on these.

[ozomulsion]

I still don't like the man. I could care less where he went to College. I don't put weight in where NFL went to school as to how good an NFL player there are going to be. Like some people do here. The Player proves it on the field. THE PRO FIELD. I could give a rat's ass where he went to school. I don't like the man, never have. And I have serious questions as to how much he really helps a team.

I would take TD 10 out of 10 times over Barry Sanders.

If you had attended a particular college, you would stick up for your boys. That's what I'm doing. You may be a Bronco fan but you're not a fan of the game itself. You're missing out, your lose not mine. BTW, the lions would've never sniffed the playoffs without Barry. If you believe otherwise that's too bad.