Denver D-Line overrated?

[BroncoBuff]

I can't get over the fact we're getting so few sacks. I just saw where Ian Gold is second on the team with two. TWO?!

Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown-cos, and Trevor is my #1 guy . . . but are we overrating these guys a little bit? There are 67 guys listed with more sacks than any Bronco (there's actually a lot more than 67, but that list stops at 5 sacks - 2 more than Trevor and Ebenezer's Bronco-leading 3 each. And BTW - that list includes Reggie Hayward, Montae Reagor, Bertie Berry, and 2005 FA passover Bryce Fisher: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=def&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2005 )

Sacks aren't everything, but our pass-defense is really poor, too - statistically anyway. We're 29th in pass defense, and in the entire NFL, only CLEVELAND has fewer sacks than we do: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teampass&pos=def&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2005

I know the standard reply: "Everybody throws on us because they fall behind." Sure, but shouldn't we be getting some 'coverage sacks'? We're 13 games in here, these are not "abberations", are they? I have my own reply, even: Teams gear up for the Coyer Blitz-O-Rama, so they're in max-protect. But I'm still haunted by Brunell carving up the pass-d in the rain . . . what's Peyton gonna do? And that's my concern, really - Peyton on the dry, warm turf . . .

Three years in a row will age me about a decade . . .

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[Elway 4 Life]

I just can't get over the fact that we're getting so few sacks. I just saw where Ian Gold is second on the team with two. TWO?!

Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown-cos, and Trevor is my #1 guy . . . but are we overrating these guys a little bit? There are 67 guys listed with more sacks than any Bronco (there's actually a lot more than 67, but that list stops at 5 sacks - 2 more than Trevor and Ebenezer's Bronco-leading 3 each. And BTW - that list includes Reggie Hayward, Montae Reagor, Bertie Berry, and 2005 FA passover Bryce Fisher: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=def&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2005 )

Sacks aren't everything, but our pass-defense is really poor, too - statistically anyway. We're 29th in pass defense, and in the entire NFL, only CLEVELAND has fewer sacks than we do: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teampass&pos=def&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2005

I know the standard reply: "Everybody throws on us because they fall behind." Sure, but shouldn't we be getting some 'coverage sacks'? We're 13 games in here, these are not "abberations", are they? I'm still haunted by Brunell carving the pass-d up in the rain . . . what's Peyton gonna do? And that's my concern, really - Peyton on the dry, warm turf . . .

Three years in a row will age me about a decade . . .

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I dont even think I would consider our line good. They are very average with flashes of some really good stuff about every 7-8 plays. I think the d-line is a concern we need to address ASAP.

[meangene]

I dont even think I would consider our line good. They are very average with flashes of some really good stuff about every 7-8 plays. I think the d-line is a concern we need to address ASAP.

We have a bunch of bull rushers who are decent run stoppers. This team desperatley needs a speed edge rusher or two. Pressures are nice but sacks are drive stoppers.

[Rock Chalk]

I can't get over the fact we're getting so few sacks. I just saw where Ian Gold is second on the team with two. TWO?!

Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown-cos, and Trevor is my #1 guy . . . but are we overrating these guys a little bit? There are 67 guys listed with more sacks than any Bronco (there's actually a lot more than 67, but that list stops at 5 sacks - 2 more than Trevor and Ebenezer's Bronco-leading 3 each. And BTW - that list includes Reggie Hayward, Montae Reagor, Bertie Berry, and 2005 FA passover Bryce Fisher: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=def&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2005 )

Sacks aren't everything, but our pass-defense is really poor, too - statistically anyway. We're 29th in pass defense, and in the entire NFL, only CLEVELAND has fewer sacks than we do: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teampass&pos=def&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2005

I know the standard reply: "Everybody throws on us because they fall behind." Sure, but shouldn't we be getting some 'coverage sacks'? We're 13 games in here, these are not "abberations", are they? I have my own reply, even: Teams gear up for the Coyer Blitz-O-Rama, so they're in max-protect. But I'm still haunted by Brunell carving up the pass-d in the rain . . . what's Peyton gonna do? And that's my concern, really - Peyton on the dry, warm turf . . .

Three years in a row will age me about a decade . . .

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Your intelligence is overrated.

[BroncoBuff]

Your intelligence is overrated.
Who's doing the rating? My mensa chapter (I'm VP) thinks pretty highly of it . . .

Give it a rest, Alec - I called off my dogs.

[OrangeShadow]

they played well early in the season not so much now.

[Elway 4 Life]

We have a bunch of bull rushers who are decent run stoppers. This team desperatley needs a speed edge rusher or two. Pressures are nice but sacks are drive stoppers.

I agree we desparately need a speed rusher. I would like to get a couple high motor guys. Our line takes to many plays off.

[crazyhorse]

If you are not going to get sacks, pressure sometimes can be better. The Broncos have been getting good pressure. Forcing a few bad throws. Bailey picks have mainly been a product of his playing zone. It has helped the rookies though.


The front seven are pretty good. The front 4 suck.

[BroncoBuff]

If you are not going to get sacks, pressure sometimes can be better. The Broncos have been getting good pressure. Forcing a few bad throws.
Yeah - "pressure" was fine for 6 weeks - even 8 weeks.

But we're THIRTEEN weeks in, now - and we're gonna have to go through Indy to get to XL. And in my observations, "pressure" doesn't rattle that Big Lug too much. We've gotta blast him - hard.

[DrFate]

The stats need to be taken in context - a 10-3 team is ahead most games so the opposition must pass more late (and so your defense pass stats look bad). It is simplistic to say 'we only give up 75 yards rushing per game so we are a great run D team' or whatever - if you are winning by 3 TDs in the first quarter the other team isn't going to run the ball.

The Dline is improved over last year. They certainly could use a speed guy to get to the QB. I think a couple are worthy of Pro Bowl consideration.

[Mile High Shack]

The stats need to be taken in context - a 10-3 team is ahead most games so the opposition must pass more late (and so your defense pass stats look bad). It is simplistic to say 'we only give up 75 yards rushing per game so we are a great run D team' or whatever - if you are winning by 3 TDs in the first quarter the other team isn't going to run the ball.

The Dline is improved over last year. They certainly could use a speed guy to get to the QB. I think a couple are worthy of Pro Bowl consideration.

Warren is the only guy worth any kind of props on our dline

the rest are average, we do need a speed rusher badly

[Hercules Rockefeller]

The stats need to be taken in context -

and so does the line play outside the stats. They are not generating enough constant pressure when the games are close. Boller had all day last Sunday and the Ravens line is terrible, they couldn't do jack to Eli in the 4th quarter when they played the Giants. Manning is going to tear apart this defense for the third straight year if Denver plays Indy in the playoffs.

[Great13]

I think this line was just meant to be a competitve stop gap until we can retool in this years draft. Resign Warren, restructure Brown, and either keep pryce and move him back inside and draft Kiwi -Or- trade Pryce and draft Ngata and Kiwi/another 1st round DE. Or I can just stop making stupid trades on my Madden and tossing em out here on the board.

[elsid13]

I think that some of the lack of sacks is the result of the scheme that calls for the front 4 to stop the rush first and keep the LB clean. Wasn't there a quote in one of the papers from Butch Davis saying something to that effect in last week or so?

[DrFate]

and so does the line play outside the stats. They are not generating enough constant pressure when the games are close.

I agree with this assessment, but I firmly believe the D play calling gets tight late in close games. You rarely get a consistent pass rush rushing 4 guys. Early in games we send Lynch or DW or Gold and get pressure. Late in games we send 4 (and only 4) and these QBs have time. I'm not saying you have to be the 85 Bears but unless you have Freeney it is hard to get consistent pressure in a 4 on 5 (or 6) situation.

[Mile High Shack]

I agree with this assessment, but I firmly believe the D play calling gets tight late in close games. You rarely get a consistent pass rush rushing 4 guys. Early in games we send Lynch or DW or Gold and get pressure. Late in games we send 4 (and only 4) and these QBs have time. I'm not saying you have to be the 85 Bears but unless you have Freeney it is hard to get consistent pressure in a 4 on 5 (or 6) situation.

especially when teams are going max protect

[meangene]

I agree we desparately need a speed rusher. I would like to get a couple high motor guys. Our line takes to many plays off.

Fortunately, it's a pretty good draft for high motor edge rushers - Kiwe, Dumervil, Tapp, Hall, etc.

That won't help us this year though. I'd like to see Chukwurah in more at DE with Pryce moving inside in pass situations. Maybe let the d-line just rush the passer more. More blitzing. Anything to help generate pressure and dictate the tempo a little more.

[watermock]

We have a bunch of bull rushers who are decent run stoppers. This team desperatley needs a speed edge rusher or two. Pressures are nice but sacks are drive stoppers.

I agree...it's a combination of the type of players they are, and Coyer's scheme...what was dissapointing his how KC totally manhandled us...if healthy, that's still a dominant line...

We do a good job of holding our gaps, and that's part of Coyer's philosophy of stop the run first, but I agree, we need an edge rusher...I wouldn't mind seeing more of Gold off the edge, and of course, D-Will was laying occasional wood but is out for now...

Can't we bring in Tammy Faye to heal D-Will or something?...he would probably wind up tripping in front of a trolley...never mind...by next week we will know if it's responding to treatment...at least he didn't land on IR...yet....

[Rascal]

I think this line was just meant to be a competitve stop gap until we can retool in this years draft. Resign Warren, restructure Brown, and either keep pryce and move him back inside and draft Kiwi -Or- trade Pryce and draft Ngata and Kiwi/another 1st round DE. Or I can just stop making stupid trades on my Madden and tossing em out here on the board.

Ngata and Kiwi!!! Ngata is going to be taken by pick #10 so we are going to have to move up with the Skins pick at least 7 spots...that will be tough. I think Kiwi will be taken by pick #15 so moving up from our current spot of 30 will be even tougher.

I would crap in my pants if that happened.

[Vegas_Bronco]

I'd put our dline against any at stopping the run! Trevor, Trevor, Trevor! Champ even gave them credit for his recent string of pix. Our Dline doesn't need to sack the qb, we just have to stop the run and make teams 1 dimensional <--- that is the key, 3 and out! Who cares how many sacks we have who made it to the pro bowl etc, etc.

[Rascal]

Sorry Vegas but when we make teams one dimensionals (when behind and have to pass a lot) we suck defensively.

[Rock Chalk]

IF we play Indy we need serious pressure from the front four not the front seven.

Blitzing Manning has proven to be idiotic at best.

[meangene]

Ngata and Kiwi!!! Ngata is going to be taken by pick #10 so we are going to have to move up with the Skins pick at least 7 spots...that will be tough. I think Kiwi will be taken by pick #15 so moving up from our current spot of 30 will be even tougher.

I would crap in my pants if that happened.

It's a good draft for free safeties as well. Particularly if some of the juniors come out early as expected. I wouldn't mind seeing us go DE and FS in round 1 and WR in round 2 with maybe a free agent pickup at WR also. Not a good WR draft unfortunately.

[Elway 4 Life]

I'd put our dline against any at stopping the run! Trevor, Trevor, Trevor! Champ even gave them credit for his recent string of pix. Our Dline doesn't need to sack the qb, we just have to stop the run and make teams 1 dimensional <--- that is the key, 3 and out! Who cares how many sacks we have who made it to the pro bowl etc, etc.

We need sacks and we need a very strong rush if we plan on beating manning & co.

This is a fact!!! We will lose yet again unless we can find a way to pressure the QB on every freakin play.

[Play2win]

Ngata and Kiwi!!! Ngata is going to be taken by pick #10 so we are going to have to move up with the Skins pick at least 7 spots...that will be tough. I think Kiwi will be taken by pick #15 so moving up from our current spot of 30 will be even tougher.

I would crap in my pants if that happened.

You mean GIVE BIRTH TO ANOTHER QWEEFS FAN?!?...

[Elway 4 Life]

It's a good draft for free safeties as well. Particularly if some of the juniors come out early as expected. I wouldn't mind seeing us go DE and FS in round 1 and WR in round 2 with maybe a free agent pickup at WR also. Not a good WR draft unfortunately.

I agree it is a very strong draft for safety and the d-line. We need both IMO. I think it is a very good WR draft. We might do better in FA with that need.

[watermock]

Max protect is the new mantra

[Rascal]

It's a good draft for free safeties as well. Particularly if some of the juniors come out early as expected. I wouldn't mind seeing us go DE and FS in round 1 and WR in round 2 with maybe a free agent pickup at WR also. Not a good WR draft unfortunately.

If we get Kiwi and Huff I would be thrilled, but Kiwi and Ngata would be simply unbelievable.

Yeah WR's suck in this draft. Hopefully Jarrett and Samardzija come out.

Hell Quinn too.

[watermock]

I thought the draft was deep for good LT's on the OL....but I simply am concerned with Titonka right now...

[Jetmeck]

D-line is not winning the one on one battles very often.
Warren is probably the best. For all his talking Pryce should try showing up to more than a couple of games a year.
Overated and overpayed. Burn me.

[meangene]

I agree it is a very strong draft for safety and the d-line. We need both IMO. I think it is a very good WR draft. We might do better in FA with that need.

One WR who I really like and who is "under the radar" is David Givens in NE. He has No. 1 ability IMO.

[watermock]

From what I understand, the draft is thin at WR...we go after a FA if the Claw is considered a bust...

I would like to see Givins here...but I am leery of NE players they don't keep...they make silk purses out of sows ears, so dumping a player...I'm leerly...

Maybe David Terrell will still amount to more than a sow's ear...

[Vegas_Bronco]

We need sacks and we need a very strong rush if we plan on beating manning & co.

This is a fact!!! We will lose yet again unless we can find a way to pressure the QB on every freakin play.


I hate to come with truth, but, it's gonna take a lot more than just a good defensive line, let alone a perfect defensively executed gameplan to beat Indy. Our concerns should be on our offense, not defense. Indy has something special this year, kind of reminds me of Elway and the '97 & '98 Broncos - those were special teams! I just don't think our '05 Broncos are even in the same ball park. What we are experiencing with Indy is nothing less than perfection almost every week - when Denver can execute like Indy, I'll be the first to say they have a chance at beating them. Hell, even Shanny doesn't want to think or talk about INDY.

[meangene]

If we get Kiwi and Huff I would be thrilled, but Kiwi and Ngata would be simply unbelievable.

Yeah WR's suck in this draft. Hopefully Jarrett and Samardzija come out.

Hell Quinn too.

Nooooo. I'm an ND fan too!

I'd be happy with Dumervil and Smith out of Syracuse in Round 1. How about Stovall in Round 2 since he's used up his eligibilty. I think Santonio Holmes is gonna come out early.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Sorry Vegas but when we make teams one dimensionals (when behind and have to pass a lot) we suck defensively.

Well I'd say our defense has come through week after week (except for KC game). I can think of one game that our offense won for us - the Cowboys game. Other than that our defense has been carrying the load.

[meangene]

From what I understand, the draft is thin at WR...we go after a FA if the Claw is considered a bust...

I would like to see Givins here...but I am leery of NE players they don't keep...they make silk purses out of sows ears, so dumping a player...I'm leerly...

Maybe David Terrell will still amount to more than a sow's ear...

They re-signed Givens as a restricted FA last year so I don't think they want to let him go but he'll be an UFA. I'll be real interested to see if Terrell sees the field this year. He could be a wild card in all this. You keep hearing how much the staff likes him but he's never active.

[Elway 4 Life]

I hate to come with truth, but, it's gonna take a lot more than just a good defensive line, let alone a perfect defensively executed gameplan to beat Indy. Our concerns should be on our offense, not defense. Indy has something special this year, kind of reminds me of Elway and the '97 & '98 Broncos - those were special teams! I just don't think our '05 Broncos are even in the same ball park. What we are experiencing with Indy is nothing less than perfection almost every week - when Denver can execute like Indy, I'll be the first to say they have a chance at beating them. Hell, even Shanny doesn't want to think or talk about INDY.

I agree to an extent this colt team is very good but i think they are beatable and I think we could do it. I just dont think we can do it with the front line playing the way they are.

[Elway 4 Life]

Well I'd say our defense has come through week after week (except for KC game). I can think of one game that our offense won for us - the Cowboys game. Other than that our defense has been carrying the load.

Our defense has held on! There is a difference. We jump out early on teams and then have to hold on.

[meangene]

Well I'd say our defense has come through week after week (except for KC game). I can think of one game that our offense won for us - the Cowboys game. Other than that our defense has been carrying the load.

Our defense has been consistent in its inconsistency. From game to game and even within games. We have generally done a good job against the run but our pass defense has been spotty at best. We are unable to generate a consistent pass rush against good offensive teams. We have blitz to get consistent pressure and then don't do well if opponents max protect. If we get to Indy I would rather go down swinging and blitz the hell out of Manning, and hope our offense can control the ball and the tempo. If we get hit for big plays - so be it. Better than dieing a slow death and letting them march down the field, control the clock, and wear out our defense.

[watermock]

The reason Shanahan doesn't talk about INDY is it's completely irrelevant at this point...He's focused on Buffalo kill...

I have what I feel a pretty good read on Shanny, and if know him, even tho he's not going to talk, he's allready started a game plan....

Nothing would be a bigger feather in his cap than to knock off an undefeated Colts team in the playoffs...

I think he's going to pull a couple wabbits out of his hat if we meet...but we have to get there...Carson Palmer is taking pot shots at us thru the side window....

[Elway 4 Life]

If we get Kiwi and Huff I would be thrilled, but Kiwi and Ngata would be simply unbelievable.

Yeah WR's suck in this draft. Hopefully Jarrett and Samardzija come out.

Hell Quinn too.

I would love to get huff. I think he is gonna be a force at the next level. Kiwi would be great and ngata will unfortunately be gone i think.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Nooooo. I'm an ND fan too!

I'd be happy with Dumervil and Smith out of Syracuse in Round 1. How about Stovall in Round 2 since he's used up his eligibilty. I think Santonio Holmes is gonna come out early.


Assume you are talking Anthony Smith the FS from Syracuse. Niether of those guys go in first round. They are both undersized. If you have seen Syracuse play this year, I can't see how you would want any player off that team. They were horrible. Bet there are Div.2 teams that would spank them.

[DrFate]

IF we play Indy we need serious pressure from the front four not the front seven.

Blitzing Manning has proven to be idiotic at best.

If that is true then the game is already over. We don't have a DLine that can get consistent pressure just rushing 4. We have to send somebody.

[Rascal]

Well I'd say our defense has come through week after week (except for KC game). I can think of one game that our offense won for us - the Cowboys game. Other than that our defense has been carrying the load.

uh...

do you not remember the D giving up second half comebacks to teams such as Philly, Giants, patriots, and the Skins?

[DBroncos4life]

This is why I was asking about Chuckwagon. He was our speed on the edge last year. I don't see why he couldn't be used there now. I still think the Dline will turn it up during the playoffs.

[Rohirrim]

Yeah - "pressure" was fine for 6 weeks - even 8 weeks.

But we're THIRTEEN weeks in, now - and we're gonna have to go through Indy to get to XL. And in my observations, "pressure" doesn't rattle that Big Lug too much. We've gotta blast him - hard.

We're not going to have to go through Indy. The Pats are going to beat them and then come here for the AFC Champ. game. :thumbs:

[BroncoBuff]

D-line is not winning the one on one battles very often.
Warren is probably the best. For all his talking Pryce should try showing up to more than a couple of games a year.
Overated and overpayed. Burn me.
I don't understand about Courtney Brown . . . he was the NUMBER 1 OVERALL PICK in 2000, so it seems as if he should be making a bigger impact. Have we ever had a #1 overall pick play for the Broncos? Ever? Maybe Tony Dorsett?

[Idaho_Bronco_Fan]

Ok, ok...we need more sacks, but most teams are using hot reads and 3 step drops nearly every down because they know there's going to be a blitz on just about every play.

I went nuts seeing KC's O-line outmatch our D-line, but has anyone else really manhandled us like that?

[BroncoBuff]

We're not going to have to go through Indy. The Pats are going to beat them and then come here for the AFC Champ. game. :thumbs:
Now THAT'S using your noggin! ^5

[Kaylore]

We're not going to have to go through Indy. The Pats are going to beat them and then come here for the AFC Champ. game. :thumbs:
You know, I could actually see that happening. I like our chances against the Patriots at home, we always seem to play them pretty well.

As for our D-line, all anyone needs to do is watch the Broncos TV on the low Sack numbers and listen to Coyer interview. It explains a lot of what we are doing and why our Sack numbers are low.

[azbroncfan]

We need an athlete on the Dline thats 265+ and runs 4.6. Problem is you have to draft these players high so Denver needs to trade up which never happens and Den always puts a 9+ win team on the field which puts them in latter half of first round.

[SteveTensi13]

I don't understand about Courtney Brown . . . he was the NUMBER 1 OVERALL PICK in 2000, so it seems as if he should be making a bigger impact. Have we ever had a #1 overall pick play for the Broncos? Ever? Maybe Tony Dorsett?

Umm, there was this one guy. Used to wear #7. Oh, what the heck was his name? Oh yeah, ELWAY!

[orange 4 life]

our d-line is hard to judge by the stats.

there's been a few games where we just didnt get it done (miami, kc, and baltimore come to mind), but there's ALSO been some games where we didnt get alot of sacks (or any) but CONSTANTLY had pressure on the qb.

in fact, we went a few GAMES without a sack, yet we won all those games, and we knocked the opposing qb on his ass upwards of ten times a game.
for whatever reason they just managed to toss it away before being taken down, but they were hit.

sacks are nice, and the lost yards are nice, but my concern is getting the pressure.
we did that consistently until the last couple games, and here's to hoping we get back on track starting tomorrow night.

[meangene]

Assume you are talking Anthony Smith the FS from Syracuse. Niether of those guys go in first round. They are both undersized. If you have seen Syracuse play this year, I can't see how you would want any player off that team. They were horrible. Bet there are Div.2 teams that would spank them.

I've seen Smith against Notre Dame the last two years and he is awesome. Goes about the same size as Huff who is a concensus top 10. Dumervil is undersized like Dwight Freeny also from Syracuse. The guy had like twenty sacks this year and has incredible strength and speed. Both are rated as first rounders on most draft previews right now. They may drop some with underclassmen declaring but may go up with good combines. I'm telling you they are both players. Speed and quickness is what we need on D.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Smith is listed at 5'10 187 pounds on the Syracuse site which means he is 5'8" and 170. Dummervill is listed at 6'0". I would wait till the combine when some real evaluations start. Half of these "draft experts" have never seen the guys play. There was one 2 years ago who got a lot of play who turned out to be a 13 year old.

[Northman]

I can't get over the fact we're getting so few sacks. I just saw where Ian Gold is second on the team with two. TWO?!

Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown-cos, and Trevor is my #1 guy . . . but are we overrating these guys a little bit? There are 67 guys listed with more sacks than any Bronco (there's actually a lot more than 67, but that list stops at 5 sacks - 2 more than Trevor and Ebenezer's Bronco-leading 3 each. And BTW - that list includes Reggie Hayward, Montae Reagor, Bertie Berry, and 2005 FA passover Bryce Fisher: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=def&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2005 )

Sacks aren't everything, but our pass-defense is really poor, too - statistically anyway. We're 29th in pass defense, and in the entire NFL, only CLEVELAND has fewer sacks than we do: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teampass&pos=def&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2005

I know the standard reply: "Everybody throws on us because they fall behind." Sure, but shouldn't we be getting some 'coverage sacks'? We're 13 games in here, these are not "abberations", are they? I have my own reply, even: Teams gear up for the Coyer Blitz-O-Rama, so they're in max-protect. But I'm still haunted by Brunell carving up the pass-d in the rain . . . what's Peyton gonna do? And that's my concern, really - Peyton on the dry, warm turf . . .

Three years in a row will age me about a decade . . .

.

.

.



Is it as good as it should be? probably not but we are still putting pressure on the Qb which is something we lacked last year. And lets not kid ourselves, no one is going to beat Indy in their house this year. NO ONE. All i want is to win playoff game right now. Our team isnt good enough right now to beat the Colts and we still have mental issues to get over as well because of the beatdowns we have received the last two years. Im not even sure Pitt can give them a game at this point.

[meangene]

Smith is listed at 5'10 187 pounds on the Syracuse site which means he is 5'8" and 170. Dummervill is listed at 6'0". I would wait till the combine when some real evaluations start. Half of these "draft experts" have never seen the guys play. There was one 2 years ago who got a lot of play who turned out to be a 13 year old.

Dumervil is 6'0" or 6'1" and weighs about 265. This year he had 20 sacks, 22 TFL and 10 forced fumbles. Smith is more like 6'1" and 200 and great in coverage. Mel Kiper has them rated #22 and #19 on his senior board. I agee that there will be a lot more evaluation before the draft and these guys may move up or down. I just throw them out as two highly rated prospects who I have personally been impressed with. They also fill needs for us and may realistically be available when we pick. Just a little early draft specualtion.

[DB-Freak]

You guys keep on saying D line gets pressure but not sacks.

I don't see either really consistently from our D line.

What you gotta take account is the hyper aggressive scheme that Coyer employs.

And whenever the D line was callled to make their stands, they didnt perform at all.

[OrangeShadow]

i dont see it either. early on i saw pressure a lot now im not so much.

[Broncoman13]

Smith is listed at 5'10 187 pounds on the Syracuse site which means he is 5'8" and 170. Dummervill is listed at 6'0". I would wait till the combine when some real evaluations start. Half of these "draft experts" have never seen the guys play. There was one 2 years ago who got a lot of play who turned out to be a 13 year old.

I'd gladly take a chance on Dummervill. I don't care if he's listed at 6' or not. I'm not looking for batted balls from him, I'm looking for a speed rusher that gets around the edge and can chase down a QB that, up to date, has been able to escape our pass rush.

One other thing, you'd be foolish to believe that we have a poor pash rush this year. Everybody is stuck on sacks. We don't have a guy with 10 sacks so we aren't getting the job done. BS! We're tied for 2nd in the league in turnover ratio... that doesn't happen unless you get some turnovers, and if you look at most of our turnovers, you'll see a QB that was under pressure and got ride of the ball before he was ready to. In some cases the pressure itself is what caused the sack. I'm not sure why, but lately we've seen less blitzes. Darrent Williams for the first 8 games was sent from the CB position a number of times. The last three or four games have featured less of our CB's coming after the QB... don't know why??? We're also seeing less and less of Wilson and Gold on blitzes... and the Predator hasn't been sent after the QB all season! Larry Coyer has done a good job this year, but he needs to get back to turning these boys loose. I'm not afraid of giving up a big play every now and then. We won a couple SB's playing that style D.

Calling on Coyer to turn our boys loose is just what the Dr. ordered! Remember going into the first KC game what he did? Told our DL to just get after the QB. Seems like lately we're back to that same old Stop the Run and react to the pass type D, which really hurts our DLine's ability to get to the QB. We're able to get after him by reacting, just imagine if we were to take a more proactive approach rather than reactive.

[Broncoman13]

You guys keep on saying D line gets pressure but not sacks.

I don't see either really consistently from our D line.

What you gotta take account is the hyper aggressive scheme that Coyer employs.

And whenever the D line was callled to make their stands, they didnt perform at all.

If you mean consistently as in every play then you're pipe dreaming! Very few teams are able to do that. What's important is that when we get the pressure we take advantage of the mistakes and like I said, you don't get to be 2nd in the league in TO differential without taking advantage!

[kamakazi_kal]

hey pressure is almost as good as sacks....... where does everyone think all these picks are coming from.......i know we have good corners but it stems from qb's having to get rid of the ball before they really want to and try to anticapate the wr route and where he will be not where h:Broncos: e is....

[Broncoman13]

??? Echo ???

[DB-Freak]

If you mean consistently as in every play then you're pipe dreaming! Very few teams are able to do that. What's important is that when we get the pressure we take advantage of the mistakes and like I said, you don't get to be 2nd in the league in TO differential without taking advantage!

Why would I even imply every play?

Not even close.

Still most of the pressures has been a product of the hyper-aggressive scheme IMO.

The only game I've seen pressures out of the D line on their own was the first CHiefs game and maybe Giants game, but they started crumbling in the end.

[DB-Freak]

Sacks aren't a great indicator for pressures.

But they are big plays and still very important.

And I don't think the pressure has been a big of a part our int as everyone thinks it is much as our players being at the right place or getting to the right place at the right time.

[crazyhorse]

Why would I even imply every play?

Not even close.

Still most of the pressures has been a product of the hyper-aggressive scheme IMO.

The only game I've seen pressures out of the D line on their own was the first CHiefs game and maybe Giants game, but they started crumbling in the end.

If you saw any pressure in the Chiefs game from your front 4 you were looking through beer goggles.

[missingnumber7]

I can't get over the fact we're getting so few sacks. I just saw where Ian Gold is second on the team with two. TWO?!

Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown-cos, and Trevor is my #1 guy . . . but are we overrating these guys a little bit? There are 67 guys listed with more sacks than any Bronco (there's actually a lot more than 67, but that list stops at 5 sacks - 2 more than Trevor and Ebenezer's Bronco-leading 3 each. And BTW - that list includes Reggie Hayward, Montae Reagor, Bertie Berry, and 2005 FA passover Bryce Fisher: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=def&pos=def&league=nfl&season=2&year=2005 )

Sacks aren't everything, but our pass-defense is really poor, too - statistically anyway. We're 29th in pass defense, and in the entire NFL, only CLEVELAND has fewer sacks than we do: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics?stat=teampass&pos=def&league=nfl&order=true&season=2&year=2005

I know the standard reply: "Everybody throws on us because they fall behind." Sure, but shouldn't we be getting some 'coverage sacks'? We're 13 games in here, these are not "abberations", are they? I have my own reply, even: Teams gear up for the Coyer Blitz-O-Rama, so they're in max-protect. But I'm still haunted by Brunell carving up the pass-d in the rain . . . what's Peyton gonna do? And that's my concern, really - Peyton on the dry, warm turf . . .

Three years in a row will age me about a decade . . .

.

.

.


All I'm gonna say is NO.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

If you saw any pressure in the Chiefs game from your front 4 you were looking through beer goggles.

Can you read? He said the first Chiefs game.

[crazyhorse]

Sacks aren't a great indicator for pressures.

But they are big plays and still very important.

And I don't think the pressure has been a big of a part our int as everyone thinks it is much as our players being at the right place or getting to the right place at the right time.

The picks are a result of pressure. But moreso because they have played more zone. The picks are up, but so are the yards given up per game.

[crazyhorse]

Can you read? He said the first Chiefs game.

You're right. My mistake.

[Broncoman13]

The picks are a result of pressure. But moreso because they have played more zone. The picks are up, but so are the yards given up per game.

Which is fine. I'd rather have the big play defense anyhow. Turnovers are game changers. I'll give up the occasional big play if I know that my defense is going to give me one of those big plays as well. Like I said earlier, we won two SB's with that style defense!

[BroncoFanDoug]

D-line has appeared to drop off in the last 3 games - surprised me because I thought with the depth the would get stronger. Anyway ...

The line is built to stop the run and put reasonable pressure without blitzing. In general it has done very well in that role. Also, you must give the D-Line a lot of credit for the interceptions. Not blitzing, putting pressure on, forcing interceptions.

I wouldn't mind a great speed rusher, but you give up some run defense almost by definition.

I don't think we are in nearly as bad of shape as many on this thread, but we do need to step it up. The last 3 games they have been very average.

[easymobee]

All i know is that i'll take this years line over last years line 100 times out of 100.

This thread wouldn't have existed last year, because we had Heyward and his stat #'s were "sexy" enough to keep this kind of thread out of here.

Brown, Pryce, Warren, Ekuban, Myers, and company form a nice dline IMO.

[DBroncos4life]

All i know is that i'll take this years line over last years line 100 times out of 100.

This thread wouldn't have existed last year, because we had Heyward and his stat #'s were "sexy" enough to keep this kind of thread out of here.

Brown, Pryce, Warren, Ekuban, Myers, and company form a nice dline IMO.


bud no one here liked Hayward but me. I love this years line but there is no way a QB ever should fall down and have time to get up run around and then get a pass off. It shouldn't happen.

[Atlas]

I'd like to see Chukwurah in more at DE with Pryce moving inside in pass situations. Maybe let the d-line just rush the passer more. More blitzing. Anything to help generate pressure and dictate the tempo a little more.

If you watch the games you'll see that Chuckwurah does get some playing time at DE and he never does anything to establish himself. I'm thinking he is all preseason hype

[BroncoBuff]

With Champ getting healthy - back to 100%, we should have been able to blitz more. But now Dee-Dub is out, so we have to use Cox or Paymah (or maybe Sam Brandon) on the slot receiver. In Indy, that's Brandon Stokely. I don't like the sound of that matchup.

Phil Simms was right on the money when he said blitzing teams need excellent coverage - at least for the first few ticks after the snap. I'm not sure Paymah or Cox on Stokely fills the bill there.

[meangene]

If you watch the games you'll see that Chuckwurah does get some playing time at DE and he never does anything to establish himself. I'm thinking he is all preseason hype

I've hardly seen him all year on defense until last week when he got a couple of pressures in very limited duty. He played a lot more last season and consistently got pressure IMO.

[BroncoBuff]

Umm, there was this one guy. Used to wear #7. Oh, what the heck was his name? Oh yeah, ELWAY!
Actually I meant OTHER THAN Elway, but, touche` . . .