View Full Version : Can somebody explain to me why...?
BritBronco Maniac
12-07-2005, 08:33 AM
If our new D-line is so great, why do the Broncos only have 18 sacks, tied for LAST in the league?
Consider also, Denver's opponents have attempted 461 passes against them, most in the league, providing the most opportunites for sacks?
That means we only sack the QB once in every 26 pass attempts.
I find it quite amusing that the media has been kissing Shannys butt in recent weeks, about how his Browncos gamble paid off!
Rock Chalk
12-07-2005, 08:35 AM
Umm, if you dont believe our pass rush has improved you havent been watching the games.
That, or you are British. :P
BritBronco Maniac
12-07-2005, 08:41 AM
Sadly I have only been able to watch 5 games this year.
The Miami game, the first Chefs game, the Jags game (which I was at), the Cowboys game, and the second Chefs game.
Up until this weeks game I had noticed more pressure on the QB, but last week was very frustrating. Trent Green appeared to have a fortress built around him.
So, more pressure than last year, which isn't hard, but they still lanquish at the bottom of the league in Sacks!
If the line is so good, why so few sacks?
If our new D-line is so great, why do the Broncos only have 18 sacks, tied for LAST in the league?
Consider also, Denver's opponents have attempted 461 passes against them, most in the league, providing the most opportunites for sacks?
That means we only sack the QB once in every 26 pass attempts.
I find it quite amusing that the media has been kissing Shannys butt in recent weeks, about how his Browncos gamble paid off!
OL holding, which apparently is not considered a penalty by the refs when the Broncos are on defense.
seriously, look at any play from any game where Pryce is rushing the passer and you'll see the OL basically bearhug him.
ro_50
12-07-2005, 08:44 AM
The D-Line has improved, I think they are in the top 10 in QB hurries, but they cant seem to generate pressure on its own, instead relying upon blitzes.
They need to develop pressure on themselves but they have played better than last year, but they have to get more sacks.
ROYC75
12-07-2005, 08:55 AM
Other than Pryce, none of the other DL men strick fear into another team. As roll players and gap stopping, they do a good job. The Brownco's had done a good job of this, not great. Add in a great LB crew and you have a very good run stopping team but only adequate pass rush.
Probally blitzing a little more would correct this.
I'll be the 1st to admit, the Brownco's have exceeded my expectations.
BritBronco Maniac
12-07-2005, 08:57 AM
I think the Broncos are pretty blitz happy already.
Although I have to admit I love the play where they bring all 7 plays up onto the line, and then rush about 5 or 6 of them. It does seem to generate a lot more pressure than normal.
Mediator12
12-07-2005, 09:00 AM
While the pass rush has improved, WAS has given the gameplan to other teams on how to beat this front Four.
Max Protect and Chip the Ends on almost every pass play. Then, use the interior OL to double Pryce and Warren after they have been chipped or doubled initially. The one thing I noticed about KC OL was the coordination of the protection. Roaf not only is a much better player, he is much better at this type of coordination. They were able to consistently get more people blocking the DL. How many catches did Gonzo Make? Johnson? Richardson? Dunn? Not many because they were chipping and blocking DL most of the time.
The only way to combat that is to go zero coverage blitzes or maybe CB blitzes off the slot. Did anyone notice how far wide KC's slot receivers were in that game? They were 8-10 yards Wider than usual in order to give Trent the time to see a CB blitz better and get rid of the ball.
Overall, Al Saunders finally got Larry Coyer out of his game plan with that improvised QB scramble on the zero coverage blitz that almost went for a TD. Great gameplan and even better execution by the Chiefs offense.
ludo21
12-07-2005, 09:01 AM
Early inthe year we couldnt get any sacks. But the pressures were there. Against KC we went soft and didnt send many blitzes, thus the fotress around Gree. 4 v. 5 is clearly in their favor. I hate that we need a blitz to get pressure, but i guess we better get used to it and send some blitzes.
Rock Chalk
12-07-2005, 09:02 AM
Lack of pass rush against KC with Roaf and Welbourne is not a sign of a bad pass rush, its a sign of the best pass blocking o-line in the league, bar none.
Mediator12
12-07-2005, 09:06 AM
Other than Pryce, none of the other DL men strick fear into another team. As roll players and gap stopping, they do a good job. The Brownco's had done a good job of this, not great. Add in a great LB crew and you have a very good run stopping team but only adequate pass rush.
Probally blitzing a little more would correct this.
I'll be the 1st to admit, the Brownco's have exceeded my expectations.
Warren is still getting doubled on almost every pass play. Brown has been good but nowhere near as dominant as he should be healthy. Ekuban is just damn inconsistent. And Myers has faded recently with better gameplanning by opposing teams.
It is time to bring back the SD second half gameplan and let it all hang out. That includes releasing the stunts and bullrushing more often.
BritBronco Maniac
12-07-2005, 09:24 AM
If Warren is getting double teamed and so is Pryce, then why the heck is nobody else getting there?
The only way this seems possible is if we are droping back 7 men into zone coverage, against their 3 receivers. Leaving the opponent with 7 men to block the 4 that are rushing.
One of the 3 then manages to get open!
sirhcyennek81
12-07-2005, 10:46 AM
Its called holding. the KC line gets away with it, like most other olines. But it is odd, when you see players going for the ball, and seeing a jersey being ripped off by the blocker. whatever. Broncos defense is getting turnovers, sacks will come later.
BigPlayShay
12-07-2005, 11:25 AM
The sack numbers are not showing that the D-line has improved, but the interception numbers are. With 4 games left the Broncos have 16 picks. They had 12 all of last year.
Also, sacks seem to come in bunches. Considering that we have 3 opponents coming up that have allowed 36 (Bal), 35 (Buf), and 32 (Oak) sacks, I would expect the sack total to rise significantly.
azbroncfan
12-07-2005, 12:59 PM
While the pass rush has improved, WAS has given the gameplan to other teams on how to beat this front Four.
Max Protect and Chip the Ends on almost every pass play. Then, use the interior OL to double Pryce and Warren after they have been chipped or doubled initially. The one thing I noticed about KC OL was the coordination of the protection. Roaf not only is a much better player, he is much better at this type of coordination. They were able to consistently get more people blocking the DL. How many catches did Gonzo Make? Johnson? Richardson? Dunn? Not many because they were chipping and blocking DL most of the time.
The only way to combat that is to go zero coverage blitzes or maybe CB blitzes off the slot. Did anyone notice how far wide KC's slot receivers were in that game? They were 8-10 yards Wider than usual in order to give Trent the time to see a CB blitz better and get rid of the ball.
Overall, Al Saunders finally got Larry Coyer out of his game plan with that improvised QB scramble on the zero coverage blitz that almost went for a TD. Great gameplan and even better execution by the Chiefs offense.
Excellent Post, I was going to say the same thing, the chiefs max protected and threw deep since Denver kept sending a safety into Max protect. If teams max protect you shouldn't blitz into it which Coyer still will.
Willynowei
12-07-2005, 01:00 PM
If our new D-line is so great, why do the Broncos only have 18 sacks, tied for LAST in the league?
Consider also, Denver's opponents have attempted 461 passes against them, most in the league, providing the most opportunites for sacks?
That means we only sack the QB once in every 26 pass attempts.
I find it quite amusing that the media has been kissing Shannys butt in recent weeks, about how his Browncos gamble paid off!
The D-line is not Good. Its not even close to good. It is flat out mediocre.
But i could not be anymore happy that it got to be mediocre. Considering last year we had the absolute worst defensiveline to have ever set foot in the NFL. I remember that crap line get Dominated by the Bucs O-line... the BUCS. Yeah they were that bad.
This years D-line is average, and thats a hell of a lot better than seasons past.
Willynowei
12-07-2005, 01:04 PM
Excellent Post, I was going to say the same thing, the chiefs max protected and threw deep since Denver kept sending a safety into Max protect. If teams max protect you shouldn't blitz into it which Coyer still will.
Sure you could, you overload, just like we did in philly.
If the magic formula against the broncos was max protect, then we wouldn't have won a game since washington.
Think sometimes people forget, you can always send one more guy rushing than blocking, and still cover everyone one on 1 at the edges.
But of course, if you KNOW they other team is gonna max protect, its probably not a good idea to send the house up the middle...
broncosteven
12-07-2005, 01:12 PM
The answer to why is:
Because
At least it works with my daughter but she is 3 years old.
ozomulsion
12-07-2005, 01:17 PM
The answer to why is:
Because
At least it works with my daughter but she is 3 years old.
Beat me to it.
chrisp
12-07-2005, 01:17 PM
We are 5th in the league for interceptions - I think that is good evidence of a stronger pass rush.
Add to that, KC are a run-first team, and up untill the 4th quarter we had been concentrating on holding the run in check rather than blitzing the QB - that's why you didn't see so much pressure.
So many times the QB throws it away to avoid the sack, it isn't always a fair statistic. I've even seen some occasions where we've been able to rush 4 and still get pressure, it doesn't always translate into sacks, but it stops the completion and brings up a punt.
....and I am British and I still think that!!Knowitall
ozomulsion
12-07-2005, 01:19 PM
Sure you could, you overload, just like we did in philly.
If the magic formula against the broncos was max protect, then we wouldn't have won a game since washington.
Think sometimes people forget, you can always send one more guy rushing than blocking, and still cover everyone one on 1 at the edges.
But of course, if you KNOW they other team is gonna max protect, its probably not a good idea to send the house up the middle...
You just descibed the Bears defense. They're ok.
ncjmirabile
12-07-2005, 01:22 PM
The d-line is about all bull rushers. They can push the o-line back and open holes for blitzers to come through. They need someone with speed and then sack totals will start to rise.
ncjmirabile
12-07-2005, 01:22 PM
The d-line is about all bull rushers. They can push the o-line back and open holes for blitzers to come through. They need someone with speed and then sack totals will start to rise.
azbroncfan
12-07-2005, 01:27 PM
Sure you could, you overload, just like we did in philly.
If the magic formula against the broncos was max protect, then we wouldn't have won a game since washington.
Think sometimes people forget, you can always send one more guy rushing than blocking, and still cover everyone one on 1 at the edges.
But of course, if you KNOW they other team is gonna max protect, its probably not a good idea to send the house up the middle...
Yeah then Green audibles into a run the other way for huge gains in fact he did in second half at least once. That scheme worked against Philly who refused to run the ball. Doesn't work against a good running team.
bendog
12-07-2005, 01:30 PM
well, imo, the blitzing with TrInt was not the proper game plan. Play run against the chorfs. Man their WRs with a safety back. Make the Wrs beat us. I really didn't notice whether we played the same "big nickle" as before, but I did notice them running right over Pryce and Gold.
Not surprisingly, btw, with roaf having about 60 pounds on Pryce.
Mediator12
12-07-2005, 05:06 PM
well, imo, the blitzing with TrInt was not the proper game plan. Play run against the chorfs. Man their WRs with a safety back. Make the Wrs beat us. I really didn't notice whether we played the same "big nickle" as before, but I did notice them running right over Pryce and Gold.
Not surprisingly, btw, with roaf having about 60 pounds on Pryce.
They may have run at them, but they did not run over them. Gold Played SAM for most of that game matching up with Gonzalez and DJ failed to make several plays in the running game including the huge thirty yarder he overran. Ekuban and Gold both filled their gaps but Pryce, Williams, and Ferguson all overran the pursuit.
yavoon
12-07-2005, 07:05 PM
cuz we have 8212 pressures, pretty much every qb is scared crapless of us getting close to them but not actually sacking them.
we also get held pretty much all the time
TD4HOF
12-07-2005, 07:35 PM
They've browned out. Get it? Get it? *nudge nudge*
watermock
12-07-2005, 07:40 PM
Altho the sacks haven't come, we were getting much better consistent pressure and bull rushing, holding our gaps...we don't have a real speed rusher on the DL...I spend so much time complaining in the chat room I miss some of the game at times...I dunno how much Gold or Williams were sent...I like DW off the corner...he seems to like that assignment...roll Foxy or Brandon over to that coverage...