View Full Version : Ralph Nader wants T.O. to play
scorpio
11-16-2005, 02:07 PM
http://www.nader.org/template.php?/archives/210-In-Defense-of-Terrell-Owens-Letter-to-Jeffrey-Lurie-and-Paul-Tagliabue.html&PHPSESSID=6b9eff9d721a4e180918b0c931651330
Jeffrey Lurie
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Philadelphia Eagles
1 NovaCare Way
Philadelphia, PA 19145
Paul Tagliabue
Commissioner
National Football League
280 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017
Dear Messrs. Lurie and Tagliabue,
I am writing to urge you to rescind the misguided suspension and planned inactive designation of Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens. If the Eagles management declines to remedy its mistake, Commissioner Tagliabue, you should intervene to overturn the team's decision, which dishonors this country's traditional respect for free speech and cheats fans of an opportunity to see arguably the best receiver in football. Let him play.
There is no question that Terrell Owens' comments have been boorish and unwarranted. However, the comments were just that -- comments.
It should be the policy of the Eagles and the National Football League, as well as other sports teams and leagues, that players not be punished merely for what they say.
There is a great tradition in this country of respecting free speech, and the Eagles and NFL should express those values in handling even churlish speech. This is not a matter of law: U.S. constitutional speech protections and most state speech protections do not extend into the workplace; and the NFL collective bargaining agreement affords teams the right to suspend players for "conduct detrimental" to their team, a provision that has been interpreted to cover speech and other expressive conduct. No, it is not a matter of law, but of principle. And the principle should be: employees are not penalized for speaking out, even if what they have to say strikes management as ill-informed or offensive.
That the Eagles' proposed punishment for Owens -- a four-game suspension followed by an inactive designation for the rest of the season -- is so harsh, and so far in excess of punishments applied to other players who have engaged not in ill-considered speech, but criminal conduct or serious wrongdoing, points to how injudicious the Eagles' approach is.
There is, as well, a consumer issue at stake here. Fans have purchased tickets for Eagles' games, in Philadelphia and elsewhere, on the assumption that they will see one of the game's most exciting receivers, so long as he is healthy enough to play. The Eagles' action denies them this opportunity.
If the Eagles do not want Terrell Owens on their team, then they should release him. Instead, the Eagles propose not just to suspend him for the term permitted by the collective bargaining agreement, but to make him inactive for the duration of the season. This vengeful approach keeps him as an effective hostage -- kept away from the fans who would like to see him play.
I look forward to your response, and would be pleased to discuss these matters with you further.
Sincerely,
Ralph Nader
Founder, League of Fans
bronco militia
11-16-2005, 02:10 PM
what a tool
missingnumber7
11-16-2005, 02:10 PM
I think the eagles have every right to say look what Tampa Bay did to Keyshawn Johnson. And what the hell is the league of fans...something nader made up? Oh and who says i want to see the fool play?
GreatBronco16
11-16-2005, 02:12 PM
So when a black guy slams white owners(the team and fans) it should be considered 'free speech' and just 'comments'???
Then I guess what Rush said about McNabb should be considered exactly the same thing? Somehow I doubt Owens and Nader would agree.
bronco militia
11-16-2005, 02:14 PM
So when a black guy slams white owners(the team and fans) it should be considered 'free speech' and just 'comments'???
Then I guess what Rush said about McNabb should be considered exactly the same thing? Somehow I doubt Owens and Nader would agree.
Rush brought up the Black/White issue....TO has yet to play the race card
GreatBronco16
11-16-2005, 02:15 PM
Rush brought up the Black/White issue....TO has yet to play the race card
Hello, Jesse Jackson.
bronco militia
11-16-2005, 02:16 PM
Hello, Jesse Jackson.
he hasn't brought race into the discussion.....yet.
GreatBronco16
11-16-2005, 02:20 PM
he hasn't brought race into the discussion.....yet.
I'm sure he has, just not publicly yet. Wait till after Friday if the arbi doesn't overturn anything for TO.
missingnumber7
11-16-2005, 02:23 PM
Hello, Jesse Jackson.
So I wasn't the only one that caught To with yet another Media whore at the falcons game.
BMF Bronco
11-16-2005, 02:27 PM
How can race be a factor, he fought Hugh Douglas to get kicked off the team, and last time I checked, Hugh is quite the tan fellow.
Billy Clyde Puckett
11-16-2005, 02:33 PM
This is none of Nader's business. He is just using this to make money in some way.
Popps
11-16-2005, 02:42 PM
what a tool
Yea... but you know what, he's got a point.
-Leonard Little kills a woman after getting blasted at a team function and The Dick suits him up to play the very next weekend.
-Ray Lewis is involved in a homicide, and he's the league poster boy the next year.
Do I need to go on? How many of these guys are busted for beating up on their women, running drugs...etc, and they get a slap on the wrist.
Philly gets tough with Owens because he said McNabb is fat or something?
Fine, I understand the concept of an employee being detrimental to a business, and I do agree (to an extent) with the Eagle's right to discipline him.
But, it sure sends a ****ed up message when these guys are allowed to get away with some of the criminal activity they are... then the organization gets all righteous when someone mouths off.
I still wonder if Owens was healthy.... and Philly was in a playoff run, would they have suspended him?
DomCasual
11-16-2005, 02:48 PM
That's just stupid. Free speech does not apply to private enterprise. If you say or do something to publicly embarrass your employer, then they have the right to terminate you.
ludo21
11-16-2005, 02:49 PM
Yea... but you know what, he's got a point.
-Leonard Little kills a woman after getting blasted at a team function and The Dick suits him up to play the very next weekend.
-Ray Lewis is involved in a homicide, and he's the league poster boy the next year.
Do I need to go on? How many of these guys are busted for beating up on their women, running drugs...etc, and they get a slap on the wrist.
Philly gets tough with Owens because he said McNabb is fat or something?
Fine, I understand the concept of an employee being detrimental to a business, and I do agree (to an extent) with the Eagle's right to discipline him.
But, it sure sends a ****ed up message when these guys are allowed to get away with some of the criminal activity they are... then the organization gets all righteous when someone mouths off.
I still wonder if Owens was healthy.... and Philly was in a playoff run, would they have suspended him?
I agree, that is the only thing that gets me here. But last year with KeyShawn nothing was said.
Meck77
11-16-2005, 03:02 PM
Not sure if this clip hit the mane yet. Randy Moss speaks out on TO and Norv Turner! Let the fun begin! I think you can take the Raiders off the list of teams that might go after TO if given the chance.
Interesting to see what Moss didn't have to say about Norv Turner when he was asked. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=D06z9uC5bDM
FADERPROOF
11-16-2005, 03:04 PM
With all the petioning that Ralph Nader has done for T.O., I'm starting to think that Ralph has him on his fantasy team and is on the bubble for a playoff spot.
Billy Clyde Puckett
11-16-2005, 03:09 PM
Not sure if this clip hit the mane yet. Randy Moss speaks out on TO and Norv Turner! Let the fun begin! I think you can take the Raiders off the list of teams that might go after TO if given the chance.
Interesting to see what Moss didn't have to say about Norv Turner when he was asked. Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch.php?v=D06z9uC5bDM
That was funny - heard part of it on the radio this morning.
Randy's afraid TO will tarnish his image rofl
Meck77
11-16-2005, 03:18 PM
That was funny - heard part of it on the radio this morning.
Randy's afraid TO will tarnish his image rofl
lol....isn't that something. I have to give Moss some credit. He kept his mouth shut longer than I thought he would. It was just a matter of time before Moss got tired of not getting the attention. Another raider beat down and it's going to get even more interesting.
Rock Chalk
11-16-2005, 03:21 PM
Jeffrey Lurie
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer
Philadelphia Eagles
1 NovaCare Way
Philadelphia, PA 19145
Paul Tagliabue
Commissioner
National Football League
280 Park Avenue
New York, NY 10017
Dear Messrs. Lurie and Tagliabue,
I am writing to urge you to rescind the misguided suspension and planned inactive designation of Philadelphia Eagles wide receiver Terrell Owens. If the Eagles management declines to remedy its mistake, Commissioner Tagliabue, you should intervene to overturn the team's decision, which dishonors this country's traditional respect for free speech and cheats fans of an opportunity to see arguably the best receiver in football. Let him play.
Free speech does not apply here. There are lots of areas in society in which free speech has absolutely no bearing on anything. If any one of you starts a fight with a co-worker, what happens to you? Suspended? No, you get ****ing fired.
There is no question that Terrell Owens' comments have been boorish and unwarranted. However, the comments were just that -- comments.
Comments DETRIMENTAL to the team. Hence under the clause CONDUCT DETRIMENTAL TO THE TEAM in his contract.
It should be the policy of the Eagles and the National Football League, as well as other sports teams and leagues, that players not be punished merely for what they say.
I agree, unless otherwise stipulated in the CONTRACT said individual signed.
There is a great tradition in this country of respecting free speech, and the Eagles and NFL should express those values in handling even churlish speech. This is not a matter of law: U.S. constitutional speech protections and most state speech protections do not extend into the workplace; and the NFL collective bargaining agreement affords teams the right to suspend players for "conduct detrimental" to their team, a provision that has been interpreted to cover speech and other expressive conduct. No, it is not a matter of law, but of principle. And the principle should be: employees are not penalized for speaking out, even if what they have to say strikes management as ill-informed or offensive.
You are right Ralph, it is a matter of prinicple as the law does not cover your initial argument. In fact, principle stands more on the Philadelphia side of the matter than on Terrell Owens. In principle, it is not appropriate behavior for a player, or any individual, to pick fights. In principle, it is a team game and any public media bashing of the team by any given individual of that team is bad for the team and therefore bad for business.
That the Eagles' proposed punishment for Owens -- a four-game suspension followed by an inactive designation for the rest of the season -- is so harsh, and so far in excess of punishments applied to other players who have engaged not in ill-considered speech, but criminal conduct or serious wrongdoing, points to how injudicious the Eagles' approach is.
Maybe next time he will learn to keep his ****ing mouth shut. Had any normal individual in their workplace tried the **** TO has tried, not only would they be suspended without pay, they wouldnt get their job back and no friggin signing bonus and they would not be paid for the rest of the year. It is not only fair, but hell TO doesnt even have to work for 3 or 4 games of the season and still gets paid for it.
There is, as well, a consumer issue at stake here. Fans have purchased tickets for Eagles' games, in Philadelphia and elsewhere, on the assumption that they will see one of the game's most exciting receivers, so long as he is healthy enough to play. The Eagles' action denies them this opportunity.
Really? Fans who have been going to Eagles games for years and years and years bought those tickets just to see TO? Not likely. Perhaps a small percentage of bandwagoners did, but by and large those people in Philly go to the game to see their TEAM win, not whatever TO's antics pull dip****.
If the Eagles do not want Terrell Owens on their team, then they should release him. Instead, the Eagles propose not just to suspend him for the term permitted by the collective bargaining agreement, but to make him inactive for the duration of the season. This vengeful approach keeps him as an effective hostage -- kept away from the fans who would like to see him play.
Well this entire comment is just assinine. They cant release him, the cap hit is too big. They are RUNNING A ****ING BUSINESS and you expect them to just take a big hit? **** off you psychopath.
I look forward to your response, and would be pleased to discuss these matters with you further.
Sincerely,
Ralph Nader
Founder, League of Fans
I bet you aint lookin forward to MY response you god damn potsmoking tool.
Pat Bowlen
11-16-2005, 03:25 PM
That's just stupid. Free speech does not apply to private enterprise. If you say or do something to publicly embarrass your employer, then they have the right to terminate you.
Exactly. Nowhere did Philly ever sign a statement promising they would let Owens touch the field.
Pendejo
11-16-2005, 03:25 PM
This is none of Nader's business. He is just using this to make money in some way.
Keen eyes. This letter is clearly another in a long line of money making scams Nader's become known for. Somebody keelhaul the prick.
ludo21
11-16-2005, 03:28 PM
LOL
i agree with all you said Alec
GreatBronco16
11-16-2005, 03:36 PM
Alec should send his post to Nader and see what response he gets.
So Ralph should we have quotas too. Dude look at the ratio of white guys in the league relative to the general population it's just plain discrimination against the crackers.
Popps
11-16-2005, 03:42 PM
Not to belabor the point...
This is not a matter of law: U.S. constitutional speech protections and most state speech protections do not extend into the workplace
The guy says flat out that he knows it's nothing to do with the constitution.
Like him or not, you have to know that Nader is intelligent enough to know that he understands the difference between business ethics and constitutionality.
He's using his right to free speech to attempt to influence a business, as a consumer... and he has some decent points. I don't like T.O.... but there are some valid points against the way the Eagles are handling this, not to mention that with what NFL teams allow players to get away with, it's about as hypocritical as you can get.
He really just should be released. If I go call my boss a dick, they just fire me. They don't lock me up for 6 months to prove a point. They can't, and I imagine the player's union is going to ensure that this can't happen in the future.
The Eagles can play who they want and bench who they want. They pay 53 players and get to decide who gets to play and they don't need to supply a reason to not play a particular player to anyone including Ralph nadar..
DomCasual
11-16-2005, 04:03 PM
Exactly. Nowhere did Philly ever sign a statement promising they would let Owens touch the field.
Nope. If they were unwilling to pay him for the season, then I think he would have a gripe under the terms of the CBA. But they aren't even suggesting that.
If an arbitrator rules against them, then we have all completely misunderstood the deal. But I don't think so. The question for the arbitrator, as I see it, is whether or not the Eagles are on solid ground for suspending him the four games. If he ruled against them for that, then they'd just have to pay him for those games - but they'd still have no obligation to pay him.
It might have been a good idea to have thought about all of this before he started running his mouth. Still, it's not such a bad deal. He's essentially going to get paid about a million dollars for sitting around, looking at himself in the mirror.
Pendejo
11-16-2005, 04:22 PM
Not to belabor the point...
This is not a matter of law: U.S. constitutional speech protections and most state speech protections do not extend into the workplace
The guy says flat out that he knows it's nothing to do with the constitution.
Like him or not, you have to know that Nader is intelligent enough to know that he understands the difference between business ethics and constitutionality.
He's using his right to free speech to attempt to influence a business, as a consumer... and he has some decent points. I don't like T.O.... but there are some valid points against the way the Eagles are handling this, not to mention that with what NFL teams allow players to get away with, it's about as hypocritical as you can get.
He really just should be released. If I go call my boss a dick, they just fire me. They don't lock me up for 6 months to prove a point. They can't, and I imagine the player's union is going to ensure that this can't happen in the future.
Yes. That's my only gripe with the whole thing. I don't care much for the yammering jackass myself (Owens). But it seems shady to suspend a guy for 4 games (warranted), and to turn around and prevent him from working in his chosen profession for a year. If they're going to fire him they need to fire him.
Cut ties permanently, but whatever...apparently the players association agreed to this sort of thing...so in reality they're as culpable as anyone.
The Big E
11-16-2005, 04:35 PM
Having free speech doesn't mean you won't have repercussions for speaking your mind. You can't be jailed for expressing your opinion, but you sure as hell can get fired or whatever else.
This is more than a simple matter of nailing a guy for speaking his mind, and I'm sure there are an accumulation of issues that led to this whole fiasco. The people most likely to give the benefit of the doubt to TO is the team because nobody wants TO to be able to play than them. They have the most to lose, so it's not like they're out to get him. If his BS got to be enough for them to go to the extremes they have, then I believe he got what he deserved.
On the other side of the coin, there's Rod Smith. I just read the article about him in ESPN the magazine, and it's hard not to admire what he's all about.
They are honoring their contract (paying him) he was never guaranteed to play, no one is!
GreatBronco16
11-16-2005, 06:10 PM
Not to belabor the point...
This is not a matter of law: U.S. constitutional speech protections and most state speech protections do not extend into the workplace
The guy says flat out that he knows it's nothing to do with the constitution.
Like him or not, you have to know that Nader is intelligent enough to know that he understands the difference between business ethics and constitutionality.
He's using his right to free speech to attempt to influence a business, as a consumer... and he has some decent points. I don't like T.O.... but there are some valid points against the way the Eagles are handling this, not to mention that with what NFL teams allow players to get away with, it's about as hypocritical as you can get.
He really just should be released. If I go call my boss a dick, they just fire me. They don't lock me up for 6 months to prove a point. They can't, and I imagine the player's union is going to ensure that this can't happen in the future.
So just because the Ravens put up with both Lewis' and other teams put up with (insert players name and what he did here) without suspending them or whatever means that Philly should just follow suit and do the same? I applaud the Eagle for sticking to their guns and putting the foot up TOs butt.
The whole thing with the arbitrator is whether or not TO should be suspended and fined for 4 games. That is all he can rule on. Even if TO was healthy and able to play, the Eagles don't have to activate him and play him. And there is nothing that the NFL or the NFLPA can do about that.
But I have a feeling that since TO got his way with his trade from SF to Philly bypassing the Ravens, then he will get his way and the Eagles will release him if the NFL doesn't hold his cap number against them. Then if that happens and Owens becomes a FA, he will end up in either Dallas or Denver.
Hogan11
11-16-2005, 06:14 PM
Costas said it best...TO has a very warped view of the world where even the slightest perceived slight is seen as unforgivable and yet him giving out the same stuff is "TO just being honest". He has no sense of right and wrong, has no feelings for anyone other than himself and he's surrounded by apologists who only want access to him.
What a great guy eh? Yeah, I really want him on this team ::)
footstepsfrom#27
11-16-2005, 09:26 PM
Ralph Nader has lots of free time on his hands.
Popps
11-17-2005, 12:25 AM
So just because the Ravens put up with both Lewis' and other teams put up with (insert players name and what he did here) without suspending them or whatever means that Philly should just follow suit and do the same?
That's about as far from what I said as you can get.
Try reading my post again.
Wow.
watermock
11-17-2005, 12:46 AM
I'm just happy that Jesse Jackson has been reduced to championing spoiled brat sports stars instead of prancing off to meet with Al Queada leaders in the name of peace...next time he pulls that stunt, yank his passport...or have an F-18 Hornet cap his ass. Ha!
He's literally the biggest attention whore since Geraldo Rivera, who was almost a victim of friendly fire...god the military was pissed at that clown...
"This is Geraldo Rivera...embedded with the 102nd airborn...they are planning a surprise attack on Fallujah...you heard it here first folks....We also have Jesse Jackson here with his olive branch..."
Jesse" "We have a duta, to stand upa...to thisa, outrageous wara...Ah am personally (blinks eyes repeatedly and looks confued) committed to puttin' an end to this conflicta...."
jonny1
11-17-2005, 08:48 AM
Just to kill off all the "TO to Denver" talk, ESPN this morning said that Shanahan told them that he wouldn't take the chance of messing up the great chemistry that the team has by bringing him in.
Billy Clyde Puckett
11-17-2005, 09:07 AM
Just to kill off all the "TO to Denver" talk, ESPN this morning said that Shanahan told them that he wouldn't take the chance of messing up the great chemistry that the team has by bringing him in.
Yep. Everyone connected with the Broncs that has talked in public says in so many words "No F'n Way"
watermock
11-17-2005, 09:13 AM
Good...there are other fish in the sea...team leaders like Al Wilson and Rod Smith have worked long and hard to get this team to work like a well oiled machine...why throw a monkey wrench into it? I have held my toungue, because you never know what Shanny will do, but I know one thing...Rod Smith would of been livid...not because of the competition, but because T.O. is like a Bizzaro world Rod Smith. T.O. needs to go back to his alternate universe...
Just keep listening to your agent and believing him T.O. trust me, he has your best interests at heart...
Hogan11
11-17-2005, 09:39 AM
Well, that effectively takes care of all this bring in the azzhole talk now, doesn't it?
Rock Chalk
11-17-2005, 09:44 AM
Well, that effectively takes care of all this bring in the azzhole talk now, doesn't it?
Fellow libertarian's hard at work ;)
No1BroncoFan
11-17-2005, 11:25 AM
"this country's traditional respect for free speech" has nothing to do with organizations censoring their memebers and everything to do with government censorship. Mr. Nader needs to take some basic government courses and shut the fvck up.
Ben
NaptownChief
11-17-2005, 11:39 AM
Philly can handle this issue however they want to as long as it is legal as far as I am concerned. I do agree that it is amazing that he takes it this hard for running his mouth when you have the Ray Lewis' and Leonard Little's doing what they did and getting much less. But let us not feel too sorry for TO as soon as the next two games go by he gets paid in full for the final 5 games of the year and doesn't even have to show up. There are much worse things in life than that.
Merlin
11-17-2005, 12:16 PM
Yes. That's my only gripe with the whole thing. I don't care much for the yammering jackass myself (Owens). But it seems shady to suspend a guy for 4 games (warranted), and to turn around and prevent him from working in his chosen profession for a year. If they're going to fire him they need to fire him.
I totally disagree. From the beginning of the season TO has been whining about his contract (which is low compared to others with lest talent), and he has basically stated he will make life miserable if they don't acquiesce. A team MUST have the right to keep a player inactive for the whole season if they choose. As long as the player is being paid, they have no further obligation. If they did not have the power to "bench" him, then every player that would want a new contract would just have to throw a tantrum so that they cut him and he gets to negotiate a new contract; TOs goal all along. Like Nader I do think that being suspended without pay for a quarter of a season may be too much, considering what other players get away with, however, that is another issue.