Ben johnson once ran a 4.38 forty, the fastest ever.

[yavoon]

http://www.olympic-usa.org/11611_32384.htm

[-Slap-]

Great article. It should be required reading for all sports fans.

[bloodsunday]

I thought D-Will might have surpassed that yesterday. (at least if you use the football to track-speed conversion).

[broncohaven]

If Ben Johnson ran that 40 at Indy he would have clocked somewhere around 4.1-4.20.

[broncohaven]

I actually clocked Williams yesterday and came up with a 4.37 average from the time he caught the ball (his own 19 yard line) to when he crossed the Raider's 40. Roughly 41 yards. Not bad for a combine time, let alone wearing pads, carrying a football, and it being the fourth quarter.

[yavoon]

If Ben Johnson ran that 40 at Indy he would have clocked somewhere around 4.1-4.20.

what I got from the article was that hand timed 40's are useless in terms of accuracy. yah u can add this and add that. but in the end if bill parcells can time a guy at 4.25 when its unlikely he was under 4.7 I think ur beyond the point where u can just add. it becomes a useless endeavour especially when coaches want to use the .01 accuracy of a stopwatch.

[yavoon]

didnt want to put this in own thread so I thot I'd attach it:

"As far as emerging trends, do you remember the big rise of offense? Gone. Offense is back to a level halfway between 2002 and 2003"

from outsiders.

[yavoon]

also from outsiders, midseason projections are out, rank denver as the probable #1 offense for the second half.

[NaptownChief]

I had read about that several years ago....A person definitely has to differentiate between real 40 time versus hand timed readings...Margin of error in handtimed can easily be .3 seconds or more with the start and the stop side error.

So when you hear about guys getting timed in football at 4.29 you know it isn't really that fast but since how they time most of the players in the same fashion at least it gives you a good indication as to how they stack up with all the others under the same flawed measure.

[yavoon]

I had read about that several years ago....A person definitely has to differentiate between real 40 time versus hand timed readings...Margin of error in handtimed can easily be .3 seconds or more with the start and the stop side error.

So when you hear about guys getting timed in football at 4.29 you know it isn't really that fast but since how they time most of the players in the same fashion at least it gives you a good indication as to how they stack up with all the others under the same flawed measure.

sort of. but I think u might run into a matt jones problem. because of ur high inaccuracy ur gna get ppl who basically aren't that fast clocking absurd times(and then getting drafted by jax) or ppl who are really actually faster getting slower times.

I dont know exactly how they do 40 times but I think its just a bunch of scouts stand at the finish line and they time u on 1? 3? 40 yard dashes.

[Broncoman13]

One thing to remember about these coaches and scouts that are guaging speed. They may be off when the time with a hand held stop watch. BUT, they are getting their own numbers. For example, if Bill Parcells goes to USC's pro day and times Reggie Bush at 4.35 and then times White at 4.5 he can be confident that Reggie Bush is a faster runner. That's pretty much what happened last year with Caddy and Ronnie Brown. Yes they were using stop watches, but these coaches have been doing it for several years. They may not get an accurate 40 time, but they are able to seperate the faster from slower runners.

I wonder if that made sense to anybody... for whatever reason I'm having a difficult time putting "thought to paper" today.

[NaptownChief]

sort of. but I think u might run into a matt jones problem. because of ur high inaccuracy ur gna get ppl who basically aren't that fast clocking absurd times(and then getting drafted by jax) or ppl who are really actually faster getting slower times.

I dont know exactly how they do 40 times but I think its just a bunch of scouts stand at the finish line and they time u on 1? 3? 40 yard dashes.


Mediator can verify but I believe the system used at the combine is not hand timed...There are coaches and scouts present doing their own hand timing but the official times aren't hand jobs. ;D

[yavoon]

One thing to remember about these coaches and scouts that are guaging speed. They may be off when the time with a hand held stop watch. BUT, they are getting their own numbers. For example, if Bill Parcells goes to USC's pro day and times Reggie Bush at 4.35 and then times White at 4.5 he can be confident that Reggie Bush is a faster runner. That's pretty much what happened last year with Caddy and Ronnie Brown. Yes they were using stop watches, but these coaches have been doing it for several years. They may not get an accurate 40 time, but they are able to seperate the faster from slower runners.

I wonder if that made sense to anybody... for whatever reason I'm having a difficult time putting "thought to paper" today.

thats the thing tho is u can't really say that. their reaction times and errors aren't good enough, atleast if ur adding .4-.6. for example .2 of the correction is from the error caused by not seeing when he "first moves" well hell not everyone is gna chalk up a .2 error in that, AND no1 will chalk up the same error twice. remember .05 and .1 seconds are very short periods of time, that in this case are very important. and ur letting a geezer using his thumb tell u that he's consistant? =D.

also on the anticipation, again if the correction is about as big as the start error(it seems to be) then ur looking at a similar situation where ur gna get odd fluxes. the only reliable errors u have are for example wind correction(which still isnt THAT reliable) but atleast its not altering w/ bill parcells thumb, so it'll have to do.

now maybe most of the time it works and u do more or less figure out who the fastest ppl are(especially if they do multiple runs) but some ppl are gna slip though(like I think for example matt jones) and u either have to accept that or find a way to catch them.

[Broncoman13]

sort of. but I think u might run into a matt jones problem. because of ur high inaccuracy ur gna get ppl who basically aren't that fast clocking absurd times(and then getting drafted by jax) or ppl who are really actually faster getting slower times.

I dont know exactly how they do 40 times but I think its just a bunch of scouts stand at the finish line and they time u on 1? 3? 40 yard dashes.


The guys run to 40's (at the combine anyhow). Most coaches and scouts are in the stands while timing. They start time on first move and more than likely begin stopping the time just before the finish line to try and compensate for the lag in reaction time. Then, most scouts usually avg out the two runs to get a #. Player runs a 4.35 and then a 4.39 they'll usually call it a 4.37. I know that most pro day workouts have the players running the 40 in one direction, then they turn them around and run them in the other direction. This is to ensure times are not wind aided or obstructed. I remember a few years ago a player from Miami ran a flashy 40 time (something like a 4.30). Scouts figured it was b/c of a slight tail wind and turned him around. He ran a low 4.4 into the wind. The scouts concluded that he was fast...

[yavoon]

The guys run to 40's (at the combine anyhow). Most coaches and scouts are in the stands while timing. They start time on first move and more than likely begin stopping the time just before the finish line to try and compensate for the lag in reaction time. Then, most scouts usually avg out the two runs to get a #. Player runs a 4.35 and then a 4.39 they'll usually call it a 4.37. I know that most pro day workouts have the players running the 40 in one direction, then they turn them around and run them in the other direction. This is to ensure times are not wind aided or obstructed. I remember a few years ago a player from Miami ran a flashy 40 time (something like a 4.30). Scouts figured it was b/c of a slight tail wind and turned him around. He ran a low 4.4 into the wind. The scouts concluded that he was fast...
wow in the stands? i almost wouldn't bother. funny stuff.

[Broncoman13]

thats the thing tho is u can't really say that. their reaction times and errors aren't good enough, atleast if ur adding .4-.6. for example .2 of the correction is from the error caused by not seeing when he "first moves" well hell not everyone is gna chalk up a .2 error in that, AND no1 will chalk up the same error twice. remember .05 and .1 seconds are very short periods of time, that in this case are very important. and ur letting a geezer using his thumb tell u that he's consistant? =D.

also on the anticipation, again if the correction is about as big as the start error(it seems to be) then ur looking at a similar situation where ur gna get odd fluxes. the only reliable errors u have are for example wind correction(which still isnt THAT reliable) but atleast its not altering w/ bill parcells thumb, so it'll have to do.

now maybe most of the time it works and u do more or less figure out who the fastest ppl are(especially if they do multiple runs) but some ppl are gna slip though(like I think for example matt jones) and u either have to accept that or find a way to catch them.

Matt Jones ran a 4.38 timed by several scouts (hand). His electronic time was a 4.42. These scouts are doing something right and I doubt that all of them are using their thumb. At any rate though, I think they come away with a very good indication of who is faster. But, ultimately speed isn't everything. I'd much prefer a player like Anquan Boldin (4.7 I believe) to a player like Stallworth (4.3s).

I do understand exactly where you're coming from though. The chance of any scout getting 100% accurate times for each player is nill.

[yavoon]

Matt Jones ran a 4.38 timed by several scouts (hand). His electronic time was a 4.42. These scouts are doing something right and I doubt that all of them are using their thumb. At any rate though, I think they come away with a very good indication of who is faster. But, ultimately speed isn't everything. I'd much prefer a player like Anquan Boldin (4.7 I believe) to a player like Stallworth (4.3s).

I do understand exactly where you're coming from though. The chance of any scout getting 100% accurate times for each player is nill.

I'm interested in what kind of electronic system they have. from the article(which I'm taking as the truth) ben johnson at the peak of his steroid induced excellence ran a 4.38. matt jones a 6'5 white guy runs a 4.42? I assume this is a self started electronic?

[Broncoman13]

Not sure, but you also have to remember that a 100M run and a 40 yard dash are two completely different animals. I'm not gonna sit here and say that an NFL player is faster than a world class sprinter, but I also wouldn't be suprised to see a guy like Darrent Williams smoke a guy like Ben Johnson (or whomever is hot in track now-a-days) in a 40 yard dash. Watch an Olympic runner, it's about reaching that top speed and staying smooth or streamlined. A 40 yard dash is a jerky run so naturally a trained 100m sprinter is going to depend on the last 50 meters more so than the first 50.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Crap...that 4.76 I thought I ran in high school was probably a 5.5...LOL...

[Dean]

In track, to convert hand held times to compare with fully automatic times we add .24 seconds to the hand held time. So a hand held 4.38 would equate to a 4.62 F.A.T.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I actually clocked Williams yesterday and came up with a 4.37 average from the time he caught the ball (his own 19 yard line) to when he crossed the Raider's 40. Roughly 41 yards. Not bad for a combine time, let alone wearing pads, carrying a football, and it being the fourth quarter.


Then Porter must have run about 5 flat because DW left him in the dust.

[Arkie]

4.42 is the fastest electronic time at the combine for a QB, a 240 pounder, or a 6'-6" footer, and Matt Jones was all three. MJ was drafted as a redzone threat. That's why he's scored more touchdowns than Braylon Edwards, Troy Williamson, and Matt Williams. The speed will become a bonus when he learns how to play WR.

[Cito Pelon]

There is no such thing as an official Ben Johnson time. All his records are deleted, as they shoud be.

[Arkie]

Here's his infamous race.

http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/08/02/ben_johnson.jpg

Look how much faster he is than the other fastest humans in the world.

[Cito Pelon]

Ben Johnson, the pride and joy of Canadian Track and Field for one year, because the Jamaicans refused to field him.

[Kaylore]

I added something to this statement.
The 40-yard dash.

It is the day's shortest event, and the most critical. No other statistic carries more influence for an NFL prospect in the media,

[yavoon]

Not sure, but you also have to remember that a 100M run and a 40 yard dash are two completely different animals. I'm not gonna sit here and say that an NFL player is faster than a world class sprinter, but I also wouldn't be suprised to see a guy like Darrent Williams smoke a guy like Ben Johnson (or whomever is hot in track now-a-days) in a 40 yard dash. Watch an Olympic runner, it's about reaching that top speed and staying smooth or streamlined. A 40 yard dash is a jerky run so naturally a trained 100m sprinter is going to depend on the last 50 meters more so than the first 50.

yah but in the article remember ben johnson at the 50 and 60 meter marks also smashed the world record. so its not like he started slow. at anyrate I doubt ben johnson slows down any in his sprint, its pretty much get going as fast as u can and keep it.

[BroncoBuff]

I actually clocked Williams yesterday and came up with a 4.37 average from the time he caught the ball (his own 19 yard line) to when he crossed the Raider's 40. Roughly 41 yards. Not bad for a combine time, let alone wearing pads, carrying a football, and it being the fourth quarter.
No good . . . that's a running start. Big difference.

I'd like to clock D-Will on the first 40 after his INT Sunday - bet he's faster than Roy-Boy. hmmmmm . . . . . . . . .