"I mean, they drafted Clarett... Why not Denver?"

[Taco John]

Guess what question I keep hearing this response said after?

[Rascal]

Where will TO end up?

Yeah it's been mentioned in several articles and I think the thread about TO as well.

[Hotrod]

We learned from our mistakes :pray:

[Mile High Shack]

Clarett costs us how much?

yeah...exactly

the only way we'd take that cancer is if it was a no liablity contract where we could sign him and not count against our cap

[Taco John]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.

[BMF Bronco]

Tototototototototototototototototototototototototo tototototototototototototototo

[Hotrod]

As a matter of fact Hotrod as of this moment is going on a TO diet. No more TO I will flat out forget this moron exists.

[BMF Bronco]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.
and holy $hit TJ, we agree on something for once!

[Rascal]

If shanny goes after TO I'm killing his damned dog.

WORST IDEA EVER!!!

[Hotrod]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.

Lets see how his former teams are doing Yep the egirls are in last place and the 49ers are 5-8 years away from putting a competative team on the field.

Dope forgot Im on a TO diet. Im starting it over now.

[Hotrod]

and holy $hit TJ, we agree on something for once!

So you and TJ are down with bringing in a guy who will single handedly destory a team and send it into a sprial ???

Oppps back on my diet no more TO

[Rascal]

I will lose all respect for Shanny and Bowlen if we get TO. I'd rather go 0-16 for the next two seasons then have that piece of crap on our team.

[Taco John]

Whoah whoah whoah...

I never said I was down with it at all... I haven't yet made a decision on my stance.

All I said was:


It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.


<!-- / message -->

[RhymesayersDU]

T.O. + Broncos = Lombardi Trophy #3


Do it Shanny, Do it.

[Northman]

all i know is, how scary would Lelie be on that Colts team? ouch.

[Taco John]

all i know is, how scary would Lelie be on that Colts team? ouch.



Yep. Or the Rams or Chiefs.

[Rock Chalk]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.
Would you say the same if TO caused a ****storm here like he did in Philly?

I think not.

**** TO and **** anyone who thinks he would do well here. Plummer is not the guy to throw TO the ball ESPECIALLY if he cant even get it to Lelie.

[BMF Bronco]

So you and TJ are down with bringing in a guy who will single handedly destory a team and send it into a sprial ???

Oppps back on my diet no more TO
nah, he's already ****ed up in two locations, he knows the third time will be the end of his career. Hell, if Randy Moss can stay out of the limelight after ****ing up so much, I am sure TO can take a page out of that book.

[NaptownChief]

Clarett costs us how much?

yeah...exactly

the only way we'd take that cancer is if it was a no liablity contract where we could sign him and not count against our cap


Cost you the chance of possibly having another valuable player on the roster like say Marion Barber who was better than Clarrett on talent alone and didn't come with a boatload of baggage and a three ring circus. It didn't cost the team any cash but it certainly wasn't without cost.

[Rock Chalk]

nah, he's already ****ed up in two locations, he knows the third time will be the end of his career. Hell, if Randy Moss can stay out of the limelight after ****ing up so much, I am sure TO can take a page out of that book.
Wanna bet? This guy doesnt know when to quit.

[Northman]

Cost you the chance of possibly having another valuable player on the roster like say Marion Barber who was better than Clarrett on talent alone and didn't come with a boatload of baggage and a three ring circus. It didn't cost the team any cash but it certainly wasn't without cost.

Marion did look good the other day. too early to tell but right now he is a monster for Dallas.

[BMF Bronco]

Would you say the same if TO caused a ****storm here like he did in Philly?

I think not.

**** TO and **** anyone who thinks he would do well here. Plummer is not the guy to throw TO the ball ESPECIALLY if he cant even get it to Lelie.
so you'd rather he goes to say, the raiders to compliment Moss, or even to the Chiefs?

[Taco John]

Would you say the same if TO caused a ****storm here like he did in Philly?




I don't know how to answer that question. My only point is that Shanahan is going to ask two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt our chances to win a Superbowl?
2. Do we have the ability to do it?

If the answer to #1 is that Shanahan believes he'll help our chances to win a Superbowl, then we'll go after him. If Shanahan doesn't believe he'd help our chances, then we won't go after him.

I'm not making any judgements on whether one direction or the other is the right decision or not. I don't have all the facts. Shanahan does though. And he's proven that he's bold enough to make just about any move if he thinks it will help the team achieve the pinnacle.

[BMF Bronco]

Not to mention before Romo got here, everyone hated him and didn't want him anywhere near this team. When he was here we all loved him and adored him, even defended him with ridiculous rose colored glasses on when he was under investigation for taking steroids. The when he left, we all forgot we liked him and decided to hate him once again.

[Orange_Beard]

It would take about 10 minutes for TO to distroy plummers confidence.

[Rock Chalk]

I don't know how to answer that question. My only point is that Shanahan is going to ask two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt our chances to win a Superbowl?
2. Do we have the ability to do it?

If the answer to #1 is that Shanahan believes he'll help our chances to win a Superbowl, then we'll go after him. If Shanahan doesn't believe he'd help our chances, then we won't go after him.

I'm not making any judgements on whether one direction or the other is the right decision or not. I don't have all the facts. Shanahan does though. And he's proven that he's bold enough to make just about any move if he thinks it will help the team achieve the pinnacle.
I got 100 dollars for you TJ if you take the bet.

TO doesnt come to Denver, ever.

[Jens1893]

i dont think jake plummer is the kind of qb that could satisfy terrell owens

[Rock Chalk]

You're right Jens. Hellhe cant even satisfy Taco and Taco is surely not as big a baby as TO (though its pretty close)

[Hotrod]

It would take about 10 minutes for TO to distroy plummers confidence.

That right there is why you wont see TO in Orange and Blue. ^5

[BMF Bronco]

That right there is why you wont see TO in Orange and Blue. ^5
When did Plummer all of a sudden become the world's biggest pu$$y?! We're not talking about Jeff Garcia, it's Plummer, the same guy who flipped off his own fans because they were giving him ****. I don't think you give the guy enough credit. He'd ****ing throw down with TO before he'd puss out to him!

[BMF Bronco]

next question should be, How many neg reps is BMF going to get after everyone reads this thread?

[Hotrod]

When did Plummer all of a sudden become the world's biggest pu$$y?! We're not talking about Jeff Garcia, it's Plummer, the same guy who flipped off his own fans because they were giving him ****. I don't think you give the guy enough credit. He'd ****ing throw down with TO before he'd puss out to him!

Great so Plummer and TO can throw down Im sure that will help bring home a trophy. ;D

I think TJ's point was valid that if Shanny thought TO would help us win he would try to go get him. I just dont think Shanny is stupid enough to think that freak show TO could help us win a damn thing.

[epicSocialism4tw]

When did Plummer all of a sudden become the world's biggest pu$$y?! We're not talking about Jeff Garcia, it's Plummer, the same guy who flipped off his own fans because they were giving him ****. I don't think you give the guy enough credit. He'd ****ing throw down with TO before he'd puss out to him!

I dont know if there'd be fisticuffs, but Jake is definately his own man. If Owens spouted off, I could see Jake throwing the ball to someone else.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Bringing TO in would be like drinking a cup of lye on a cold day. Would feel warm going down, but would rot the guts out.

[Hotrod]

next question should be, How many neg reps is BMF going to get after everyone reads this thread?

LOL I doubt anyones gonna neg rep you just because your wrong theres no crime against that ;D

[BMF Bronco]

Great so Plummer and TO can throw down Im sure that will help bring home a trophy. ;D

I think TJ's point was valid that if Shanny thought TO would help us win he would try to go get him. I just dont think Shanny is stupid enough to think that freak show TO could help us win a damn thing.
respect!

[Jens1893]

You're right Jens. Hellhe cant even satisfy Taco and Taco is surely not as big a baby as TO (though its pretty close)

no offense to jake, but when i see how much shiat owens has given mcnabb, a more talented and better qb than jake in my opinion, over the past few months then i have my doubts whether jake and owens could get along and help this team win.

[ludo21]

You're right Jens. Hellhe cant even satisfy Taco and Taco is surely not as big a baby as TO (though its pretty close)


TO wouldnt be a good fit here. The leadership we have here is defininetly far superior to the Eagles, but TO has a personality that could destroy that.

In saying that I bet next year gets another shot somewhere and has a great season with only minimal distractions.^5

[Jens1893]

I dont know if there'd be fisticuffs, but Jake is definately his own man. If Owens spouted off, I could see Jake throwing the ball to someone else.

-> more bitching by owens

someone today said the eagles have "keyshawned" owens .... ROFL!

[Old Dude]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.

TO is 32. Not an old man yet, but the length of the contract would be another issue.

[Northman]

Jake wouldnt be afraid of Owens but at the same time his confidence would falter tremendously. Owens would bring this franchise down in a heartbeat. if we really wanted this much drama we would have kept Portis, JUST SAY NO TO FLAVA CLOWNS.

[Jens1893]

TO is 32. Not an old man yet, but the length of the contract would be another issue.

when you consider the stuff he´s done in ´frisco and philly i reckon the length of contract would be an issue even if owens was a few years younger

[BMF Bronco]

Jake wouldnt be afraid of Owens but at the same time his confidence would falter tremendously. Owens would bring this franchise down in a heartbeat. if we really wanted this much drama we would have kept Portis, JUST SAY NO TO FLAVA CLOWNS.
WTF ever man, everyone love Portis and his antics when he was here!!

[watermock]

It's the classic Pandora's box. I'm not sure that anyone will pick up that contract, so a new one would have to be put together first, and we know how most of this circus got started...

I would take T.O. in for THE BALANCE of the season and I will explain the madness...:griese:

1. He signs for minimum for the balance of the year so he can show off his wares...I'm in no way interested in him long term. No doubt he would be highly motivated, and Denver would offer a chance to get that elusive ring. Owens would be forced to shut his piehole in order to have any hope of getting anything close to a good deal at this point...if he's benched the rest of the year, his value is nil next year...that's why the Shark was going bananas today. Owens needs these last 8 weeks and possibly a playoff appearance to even begin to patch up what has become his own Waterloo. Well, more like Hitler's ill advised invasion of Russia...

2. This is the closest we have had to a SB contender since '95. (not counting the B2B)...Owens can flat out play between the lines, that's never been the issue, we saw that last game.

3. We could cut him at any time.

Honestly, I think Reid is so pissed at him that they will eat the last 4 games salary (to torture him like he tortured them...thwack !Booya!) so he won't go to a team like the Skins and come back to bite them in the unlikely scenario they make the playoffs. This whole affair isn't close to over. Hilarious!

[Old Dude]

when you consider the stuff he´s done in ´frisco and philly i reckon the length of contract would be an issue even if owens was a few years younger

zing! LOL

[Northman]

WTF ever man, everyone love Portis and his antics when he was here!!


I never enjoyed his antics, speak for yourself. just play the damn game.

[BMF Bronco]

I never enjoyed his antics, speak for yourself. just play the damn game.
An asston of people on here did though.

[plummershelper]

TO will be a Raider or Patriot. You heard it here first

[FADERPROOF]

WTF ever man, everyone love Portis and his antics when he was here!!

Portis' antics are entirely different from Owens'.

I'll bring up Chad Johnson as a great example, yes he complains about not gettig the ball, yes he talks as if he is very selfish, and yes he does touchdown celebrations.

Sounds a lot like Terrell Owens right?

Wrong. The difference is that he has the support of his teammates and his teammates buy into what Chad Johnson does and what he is all about, along with Chad Johnson knowing when he is going too far. Carson Palmer and Chad have a perfect relationship as a Qb-WR, his team digs the TD celebrations and they buy into his aura and character.

Owens doesn't have the respect of McNabb, nor any of his teammates. His act is tiresome to them and they got sick of putting up with it. He created a big schism between himself and the rest of the team and it hurt the Eagles big time and they are now cutting ties with him.

So yes, Portis had antics here, but the Denver Broncos went along with it and had fun with it, i.e. the championship belt that other teammates were pointing to and getting him on camera, they were into what Clinton Portis was about and he never treaded on any of them.

[Northman]

Vikings or Dolphins.

[Hotrod]

TO will be a Raider or Patriot. You heard it here first

Well there you go we can send all these TO threads to the butt now.

[plummershelper]

Happy to clear things up for you

[BroncoInferno]

So you and TJ are down with bringing in a guy who will single handedly destory a team and send it into a sprial ???

:bs:

The Eagles are at .500 this season because they can't run the ball (don't even try, really) and their D has been lit up a couple of times. TO is just a convient excuse. If he will sign a one-year contract or a contract with incentives and clauses regarding behavior, he make us a better team.

[Northman]

Portis' antics are entirely different from Owens'.

I'll bring up Chad Johnson as a great example, yes he complains about not gettig the ball, yes he talks as if he is very selfish, and yes he does touchdown celebrations.

Sounds a lot like Terrell Owens right?

Wrong. The difference is that he has the support of his teammates and his teammates buy into what Chad Johnson does and what he is all about, along with Chad Johnson knowing when he is going too far. Carson Palmer and Chad have a perfect relationship as a Qb-WR, his team digs the TD celebrations and they buy into his aura and character.

Owens doesn't have the respect of McNabb, nor any of his teammates. His act is tiresome to them and they got sick of putting up with it. He created a big schism between himself and the rest of the team and it hurt the Eagles big time and they are now cutting ties with him.

So yes, Portis had antics here, but the Denver Broncos went along with it and had fun with it, i.e. the championship belt that other teammates were pointing to and getting him on camera, they were into what Clinton Portis was about and he never treaded on any of them.


Rep! ill take Chad Johnson over T.O any day of the week. no way T.SMO makes that 4th quarter catch against the Ravens last Sunday. he wouldnt have even attempted that type of catch. Chad is the da man and he does know when to scale back his antics.

[Hotrod]

:bs:

The Eagles are at .500 this season because they can't run the ball (don't even try, really) and their D has been lit up a couple of times. TO is just a convient excuse. If he will sign a one-year contract or a contract with incentives and clauses regarding behavior, he make us a better team.

Ya your right they were the laughing stock of the league before they found TO. He caused them to go away from what they were good at.

[Hotrod]

Happy to clear things up for you

I just hope he lands in the NFC somewhere.

[elsid13]

Vikings or Dolphins.


TO and Smoot on the same team would kill each trying to be the first to say something stupid into a microphone.

[Jens1893]

Rep! ill take Chad Johnson over T.O any day of the week. no way T.SMO makes that 4th quarter catch against the Ravens last Sunday. he wouldnt have even attempted that type of catch. Chad is the da man and he does know when to scale back his antics.

i never really get the feeling chad johnson means the stuff he says "seriously" ... he just plays along and does what people expect him to do

[Northman]

TO and Smoot on the same team would kill each trying to be the first to say something stupid into a microphone.



Hilarious!

[BroncoInferno]

Ya your right they were the laughing stock of the league before they found TO.

I didn't say they were. You are claiming that TO is responsible for the Eagles mediocre season. He isn't. They can't run the ball and they aren't playing the kind of consistently tough defense they usually do. Those things are totally independant of TO. Look at McNabbs stats in '04 and compare them to what they were before Owens arrived. McNabb improved fairly significantly in every category. You can't tell me he didn't make them a better offense in '04. He will do the same here. The key will be crafting a contract with safeguards against bad behavior.

[maven]

Clarett costs us how much?

yeah...exactly



3rd round comp. pick. Could've used that pick on a safety or offensive lineman.

[Hotrod]

I didn't say they were. You are claiming that TO is responsible for the Eagles mediocre season. He isn't. They can't run the ball and they aren't playing the kind of consistently tough defense they usually do. Those things are totally independant of TO. Look at McNabbs stats in '04 and compare them to what they were before Owens arrived. McNabb improved fairly significantly in every category. You can't tell me he didn't make them a better offense in '04. He will do the same here. The key will be crafting a contract with safeguards against bad behavior.

What Im claiming is he is a cancer in the locker room. I said nothing about his ability to make plays. He destroys teams from within. Thanks but no thanks for that kind of player on the Broncos.

[Northman]

I didn't say they were. You are claiming that TO is responsible for the Eagles mediocre season. He isn't. They can't run the ball and they aren't playing the kind of consistently tough defense they usually do. Those things are totally independant of TO. Look at McNabbs stats in '04 and compare them to what they were before Owens arrived. McNabb improved fairly significantly in every category. You can't tell me he didn't make them a better offense in '04. He will do the same here. The key will be crafting a contract with safeguards against bad behavior.

Yea, but instead of trying to be a leader for his team he is insulting his Qb and other teammates which is helping crush their confidence. you also tend to forget that the Eagles made the Super Bowl WITHOUT T.O in the lineup last year. Your delusional if you think the Broncos would be better off with this guy. Mcnabb tends to shrug off T.O's smack talk but we both know that Jake would take it more personal.

[ludo21]

3rd round comp. pick. Could've used that pick on a safety or offensive lineman.



We always take a RB and why not take a chance on a former ALL -American who clearly had skills. But key word was had.

[BroncoInferno]

What Im claiming is his is a cancer in the locker room. I said nothing about his ability to make plays. He destroys teams from within. Thanks but no thanks for that kind of player on the Broncos.

Again, if you give him only a one year deal or a contract with incentives and clauses against bad behavior, you basically force him to behave. One thing that can reason with TO is money. He will behave if the result for not behaving is less income. Now, if some team like Dallas offers him an $8 millon dollar bonus or something, then no.

[BroncoInferno]

Yea, but instead of trying to be a leader for his team he is insulting his Qb and other teammates which is helping crush their confidence. you also tend to forget that the Eagles made the Super Bowl WITHOUT T.O in the lineup last year. Your delusional if you think the Broncos would be better off with this guy. Mcnabb tends to shrug off T.O's smack talk but we both know that Jake would take it more personal.

I think it's delusional to think that TO does not instantly upgrade this offense.

They made it through the playoffs without TO because the NFC was so weak. They would have been totally blown out by the Pats if not for TOs presence.

You guys are also missing my caveat: a contract that safeguards us against his bad behavior. In other words, a contract that we can terminate if he slips up just once.

[Northman]

Again, if you give him only a one year deal or a contract with incentives and clauses against bad behavior, you basically force him to behave. One thing that can reason with TO is money. He will behave if the result for not behaving is less income. Now, if some team like Dallas offers him an $8 millon dollar bonus or something, then no.


Problem is T.O would never sign a contract like that because he loves him some him.

[Play2win]

i dont think jake plummer is the kind of qb that could satisfy terrell owens
Not in the way Jeff Garcia could...

...Well until they had their little "CAT FIGHT"

[BroncoInferno]

Problem is T.O would never sign a contract like that because he loves him some him.

Yeah, but he may not have a choice at this point. I doubt there will be any teams lining up to give him a bag of money. Jerry Jones is the only possibility. More than likely the market will force him to either sign a one year deal to prove he can behave and help a team win, or else a contract that is tied to incentives or behavior clauses.

[Northman]

Yeah, but he may not have a choice at this point. I doubt there will be any teams lining up to give him a bag of money. Jerry Jones is the only possibility. More than likely the market will force him to either sign a one year deal to prove he can behave and help a team win, or else a contract that is tied to incentives or behavior clauses.


As much as i would like to see that happen ( from any team ) i just dont think it is realistic. there are just some teams who are really desperate for the use of his on-field talent and would probably still sign him to a regular contract. Hosenhaus is a pit bull when it comes to players contracts. good idea you have there but i just dont see it happening.

[Clockwork Orange]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.

Oh, there are more questions than that.

3. How long before he starts publicly criticizing Plummer?
4. How long before he starts publicly criticizing Kubiak?
5. How long before he whines about the Broncos not throwing the ball enough?
6. How badly can he divide the locker room?
7. How much of a distraction will any/all of this be to the team?

[Northman]

Oh, there are more questions than that.

3. How long before he starts publicly criticizing Plummer?
4. How long before he starts publicly criticizing Kubiak?
5. How long before he whines about the Broncos not throwing the ball enough?
6. How badly can he divide the locker room?
7. How much of a distraction will any/all of this be to the team?


8. all of the above

[watermock]

I only sign him for the balance of the season if he's cut. Period.

[kamakazi_kal]

stink was on there saying that any team that takes a chance on owens could easily write a clause into his contract forbiding him to speak to the media or only at team press meetings and that any "bashing" of team or players results in suspension, loss of pay or outright dismissal ........... he also said that now any team could take a shot at him and protect themselves with that language in a contract because every team that would sign him would do the samething ......... other than that the contract would be heavily performanced based so that if owens went off again that teams salary cap would be intact and with concerns to a dismissal the room left by that voided contract would be prorated to give the team back its leverage to pick up another player if they so choose.....

FYI

[Rigs11]

He's already donning the orange and blue.

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/football/nfl/11/08/bc.fbn.eagles.owensfutu.ap/p1_owens_apologize.jpg

[TheReverend]

It's going to come down to two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt us win a Championship.
2. Does it work with the Salary cap.

One thing is certain... TO is a better fit for this offense than Ashley Lelie is.

You forgot your usual "Jake Plummer sucks" to throw in with the rest of that garbage statement.

[BroncoInferno]

stink was on there saying that any team that takes a chance on owens could easily write a clause into his contract forbiding him to speak to the media or only at team press meetings and that any "bashing" of team or players results in suspension, loss of pay or outright dismissal ........... he also said that now any team could take a shot at him and protect themselves with that language in a contract because every team that would sign him would do the samething ......... other than that the contract would be heavily performanced based so that if owens went off again that teams salary cap would be intact and with concerns to a dismissal the room left by that voided contract would be prorated to give the team back its leverage to pick up another player if they so choose.....

FYI

Precisely what I've been saying. He is worth it under those terms.

[Taco John]

I got 100 dollars for you TJ if you take the bet.

TO doesnt come to Denver, ever.



You seem to be failing to grasp the following facts:

1. I am not making a prediction on whether he will or wont come to Denver.
2. I am not advocating that we bring TO to Denver. Nor am I advocating against it.
3. I am not saying that we a better team with (or without) Owens.


I wouldn't dare take your bet because I just don't have a strong feeling in one way or another with regards to the direction Shanahan will go. He's too unpredictable in a situation like this to really say one way or another. So while your forcefulness on the issue is noted, you have no idea either. But if Shanahan makes a decision one way or another, it will be based on whether or not it helps our chances of winning the Superbowl. After watching Indianapolis last night, you'd have to be a fool to believe this case is simply closed and not under consideration whatsoever.

[Bronx33]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/football/nfl/11/08/bc.fbn.eagles.owensfutu.ap/p1_owens_apologize.jpg

Iam mental

[Merlin]

3rd round comp. pick. Could've used that pick on a safety or offensive lineman.
And the price you pay is to totally disregard one of your best respected coaches (for some other questionable 3rd risk). Pass!

[Taco John]

You forgot your usual "Jake Plummer sucks" to throw in with the rest of that garbage statement.


Which part of the statement is garbage?

Man, some of you people are really struggling with this whole objective analysis thing. I'm not saying anything revolutionary, but you'd think I'm parading a banner through Denver saying that Shanahan is going to sign Owens....

[BroncoInferno]

Which part of the statement is garbage?

Man, some of you people are really struggling with this whole objective analysis thing. I'm not saying anything revolutionary, but you'd think I'm parading a banner through Denver saying that Shanahan is going to sign Owens....

I think at the very least Shanny will put feelers out. He did that when Owens was available in '04. At that time, the money was just not in the ballpark of what we could offer. It may be different this time. We'll see. I bet he will at least give Rosenhaus a call.

[TheReverend]

Which part of the statement is garbage?

Man, some of you people are really struggling with this whole objective analysis thing. I'm not saying anything revolutionary, but you'd think I'm parading a banner through Denver saying that Shanahan is going to sign Owens....

No Im disgruntled over the shot at Ashley. 98% of the time, this year, hes making the tough catch, hes been decent YAC, still good at the deep ball and had extreme success on a couple reverses. Simply put, hes just not getting the attention Rod has been and thats okay. Ashley fits very well in the system and will be extremely valuable year after year.

[BroncoInferno]

No Im disgruntled over the shot at Ashley. 98% of the time, this year, hes making the tough catch, hes been decent YAC, still good at the deep ball and had extreme success on a couple reverses. Simply put, hes just not getting the attention Rod has been and thats okay. Ashley fits very well in the system and will be extremely valuable year after year.

I'm sorry, but 22 catches at the mid way point is a little below what I'd like to see from a legit #2 WR. Even his big plays are down from last season.

[Rock Chalk]

I dont know if there'd be fisticuffs, but Jake is definately his own man. If Owens spouted off, I could see Jake throwing the ball to someone else.
Now that I could see Jake doing, all year long, just for spite.

[TheReverend]

I'm sorry, but 22 catches at the mid way point is a little below what I'd like to see from a legit #2 WR. Even his big plays are down from last season.

Look at how we much threw the ball the first 3-4 games. Ashley has been performing very well under the opportunity hes been given since New England.

[BroncoInferno]

Look at how we much threw the ball the first 3-4 games. Ashley has been performing very well under the opportunity hes been given since New England.

The guy just doesn't get off line well enough to be a consistent threat in Shanny's offense. His best games are like 3 catches for 80 yards. Not bad, but not terribly consistent either. I want to see him have more games like he did against SD: 6 catches 62 yards. If he could've thrown one big play in there, then we'd be talking. He just doesn't have those types of games where he puts everything together. I think he would be a much better fit in Kansas City's offense.

[elsid13]

I dont know if there'd be fisticuffs, but Jake is definately his own man. If Owens spouted off, I could see Jake throwing the ball to someone else. .


Now that I could see Jake doing, all year long, just for spite.


Why I would throw just a little high as TO goes across the middle. TO would hold the #1 spot on TJ's "Jacked UP" 18 weeks straight. Hell they might have to rename to "you've been "TO'd""

[eddie mac]

If I was Shanahan I wouldn't touch him with a bargepoll. This team is on the verge of something huge. Plummer is having an excellent season, we've 2 running-backs who are both having pro-bowl calibre seasons. Our offensive line is playing a lot better than most predicted, likewise for the defensive line. We always knew our line-backers were set and our defensive backfield has been that good Lenny Walls has been shown the door, whilst Champ Bailey has been on the sidelines.

Why rock a steady ship? There's no doubt that Terrell Owens is an excellent WR but can you weigh that balance against his off-field and often on-field issues? I think that latter outweighs the former by a long way.

This offense has already shown this season that it does not have to have an outstanding passing game to roll over other teams.

[Rock Chalk]

I'm sorry, but 22 catches at the mid way point is a little below what I'd like to see from a legit #2 WR. Even his big plays are down from last season.
Eh, to be fair to Ashley, we haven't exactly lit the scoreboard up with passing yards and mostly becaue only in the last two or three games did we really open up the passing game. Further, Jake is spreading the ball around very effectively to MANY different receivers INCLUDING the RBs. While it would be nice if Ashley was catching 40 or more passes more at this point, think about all the other people not getting any passes thrown their way. Jeb and Steven Alexander and Kyle Johnson, all have made big big plays in the passing game for us, just because Ashley and Rod are going to take the top two cover guys away from the play.

That and running the ball like a million times a game kinda drops the numbers down, a lot. Lelie does his job and while still prone to an easy drop (lack of focus right there), he makes fantastic grabs and adjustments on balls and if any of you have doubts about his natural ability to catch, then just watch replays of him catching the ball the last couple of games.

Sure, it would be nice if he caught a couple of the ones he missed earlier in the year, but he didn't. He is now and 22 catches may not be a lot, he may not be lighting it up in receiving yards, but he is making vast improvements in his game. His intermediate and short routes have improved and he is starting to look a bit like Rod in the YAC. Starting to. Furthermore, watch a lot of Tatum's AND Mike's big runs and you will see Lelie downfield doing what he is supposed to do, block. I have seen him at least four times get good blocks in that helped to spring one of our RBs.

Rod isn't exactly lighting things up either, keep in mind and he gets thrown to more than Lelie. Not his or Lelie's fault that our offense is based around the run first.

[Taco John]

No Im disgruntled over the shot at Ashley. 98% of the time, this year, hes making the tough catch, hes been decent YAC, still good at the deep ball and had extreme success on a couple reverses. Simply put, hes just not getting the attention Rod has been and thats okay. Ashley fits very well in the system and will be extremely valuable year after year.



Hey, I'm as big an Ashley Lelie fan as anyone on this board, but I recognize that he's not going to make it here. I'll be very suprised if he's playing in a Denver Broncos uniform next year. There are a lot of considerations, the main one being he's in a contract year next year, and if he wants his big payday, he's going to have to play on a team with a quarterback who can get him the ball where he needs it.

You're wrong on this: Ashley does not fit very well in this system. He's not the physical presence down the field that this offense needs. He's a great speed threat, and would do well on a team where receivers aren't expected to do much in the running game. He's not a great fit in Denver, where receivers are asked to do a lot more. He's in good company. Darrius Watts will never make it in Denver for the same reasons.

[TheManeMan]

Anybody else think that Rosenhaus was right about how other players do far worse and dont get as bad a punishment by a team?

I know I know, that TO is probably a horrible teammate but, the guy could play some football...I wouldnt want him to come to Denver but, if he were to, I'd embrace him...It'd highly unlikely that he'll go the the Broncos though...

[TheReverend]

The guy just doesn't get off line well enough to be a consistent threat in Shanny's offense. His best games are like 3 catches for 80 yards. Not bad, but not terribly consistent either. I want to see him have more games like he did against SD: 6 catches 62 yards. If he could've thrown one big play in there, then we'd be talking. He just doesn't have those types of games where he puts everything together. I think he would be a much better fit in Kansas City's offense.

NonononononononoNO! Point blank: The option is there if we need it. We havent needed it lately, but the day will come.

Ashley's open on almost every play but the confidence is greater between Jake and Rod (with good reason), but you cant bash a guy because he isnt getting the attention he deserves. He hasnt opened his mouth, held-out or made a scene about it so its all good.

[BroncoInferno]

Eh, to be fair to Ashley, we haven't exactly lit the scoreboard up with passing yards and mostly becaue only in the last two or three games did we really open up the passing game. Further, Jake is spreading the ball around very effectively to MANY different receivers INCLUDING the RBs. While it would be nice if Ashley was catching 40 or more passes more at this point, think about all the other people not getting any passes thrown their way. Jeb and Steven Alexander and Kyle Johnson, all have made big big plays in the passing game for us, just because Ashley and Rod are going to take the top two cover guys away from the play.

That and running the ball like a million times a game kinda drops the numbers down, a lot. Lelie does his job and while still prone to an easy drop (lack of focus right there), he makes fantastic grabs and adjustments on balls and if any of you have doubts about his natural ability to catch, then just watch replays of him catching the ball the last couple of games.

Sure, it would be nice if he caught a couple of the ones he missed earlier in the year, but he didn't. He is now and 22 catches may not be a lot, he may not be lighting it up in receiving yards, but he is making vast improvements in his game. His intermediate and short routes have improved and he is starting to look a bit like Rod in the YAC. Starting to. Furthermore, watch a lot of Tatum's AND Mike's big runs and you will see Lelie downfield doing what he is supposed to do, block. I have seen him at least four times get good blocks in that helped to spring one of our RBs.

Rod isn't exactly lighting things up either, keep in mind and he gets thrown to more than Lelie. Not his or Lelie's fault that our offense is based around the run first.

Yeah, I realize that. I'm not saying he sucks or anything. It's just starting to look like he is what he is: a big play guy, but not a consistent threat in the short/intermediate area. His best games are always something like 3 catches for 80 yards or 4 catches for 95 yards or something like that. Now, that's a solid contribution, but I guess my main point is that he would fit better in an offense that goes down field a little more.

[TheReverend]

Hey, I'm as big an Ashley Lelie fan as anyone on this board, but I recognize that he's not going to make it here. I'll be very suprised if he's playing in a Denver Broncos uniform next year. There are a lot of considerations, the main one being he's in a contract year next year, and if he wants his big payday, he's going to have to play on a team with a quarterback who can get him the ball where he needs it.

You're wrong on this: Ashley does not fit very well in this system. He's not the physical presence down the field that this offense needs. He's a great speed threat, and would do well on a team where receivers aren't expected to do much in the running game. He's not a great fit in Denver, where receivers are asked to do a lot more. He's in good company. Darrius Watts will never make it in Denver for the same reasons.

If Ashley werent with Denver this year Rod Smith would have HALF as many catches! Watch who teams man-up on Ashley and who mans-up on Rod... here's a hint, Rod takes the #2 guy.

Teams have to respect his speed and deep ability and its immensely helped players around him. Not to mention hes made VAST improvements blocking.

[Clockwork Orange]

I want to take issue with the idea that adding Owens automatically makes this team a Super Bowl contender. I know that it's a popular line with the Owens defenders that the Eagles made it to the Super Bowl because they added him to the lineup.

In the four years before Owens arrived in Philly, the Eagles were a combined 46-18 in the regular season and won 5 playoff games, including 3 trips to the NFC Championship game. In Owens' first season they went 13-3 (no real appreciable difference in record since they went 12-4 each of the 2 prior seasons) and then won a pair of playoff games without him in the lineup. Getting a receiver of Owens' caliber was a nice addition for the Eagles, but it's certainly questionable to state that he was the one who put them over the top.

And that was during the honeymoon phase in which he was saying and doing all the right things.

Then there's this year. A year that got off on the wrong foot because of Owens sniping at McNabb and moaning about his contract. He compounded that by hiring the slimiest agent he could find. He then gets himself sent home from training camp. He's quiet for a while, but eventually can't help but open his mouth again, slighting McNabb and insulting the Eagles organization. The team is sitting at 4-4.

Now, looking at the two situations, if he was capable of shutting his mouth and doing his job, he's proven he's one of the best at what he does on the field and can help a team win. When he reverts back to being, well, himself, he's locker room poison and the sideshow that follows him is a distraction to the team.

It's risk versus reward and the risk factor has proven to be far greater. No way I want this guy wearing a Broncos uniform.

[BroncoInferno]

Hey, I'm as big an Ashley Lelie fan as anyone on this board, but I recognize that he's not going to make it here. I'll be very suprised if he's playing in a Denver Broncos uniform next year. There are a lot of considerations, the main one being he's in a contract year next year, and if he wants his big payday, he's going to have to play on a team with a quarterback who can get him the ball where he needs it.

You're wrong on this: Ashley does not fit very well in this system. He's not the physical presence down the field that this offense needs. He's a great speed threat, and would do well on a team where receivers aren't expected to do much in the running game. He's not a great fit in Denver, where receivers are asked to do a lot more. He's in good company. Darrius Watts will never make it in Denver for the same reasons.

I'm hoping Darrius will come around next season; some WRs don't make a break through till year 3. But I pretty much agree with you. Shanny, for whatever reason, is obsessed with big play guys, even though it's always been the tough, reliable WRs like Rod and Eddie who have served him best. Hopefully he will get us that type of reciever in the offseason, wherther it be TO or another FA or a draft pick.

[TheReverend]

Anybody else think that Rosenhaus was right about how other players do far worse and dont get as bad a punishment by a team?

I know I know, that TO is probably a horrible teammate but, the guy could play some football...I wouldnt want him to come to Denver but, if he were to, I'd embrace him...It'd highly unlikrly that he'll go the the Broncos though...

All Ray-Ray did was kill someone.

All Jamal did was set up a coke deal.

All Randy did was hit a parking attendant with a car.

All Rod did was beat his wife.

The nerve of TO to speculate on his quarterback!

[eddie mac]

I'm sorry, but 22 catches at the mid way point is a little below what I'd like to see from a legit #2 WR. Even his big plays are down from last season.

That argument has no basis whatsoever when you take into account that we're the 2nd best rushing team in this league. If you compare the 2nd WR's of the top 10 rushing sides in the NFL, Ash's numbers are just about right bar the Colts.
Jenkins Atlanta 15 249 16.6 58 1
Lelie Denver 22 339 15.4 55 1
Engram Seattle 30 340 11.3 26 0
Wayne Indy 46 561 12.2 51 3
Randle El Pitt 16 328 20.5 63 1
Bradley Chicago 18 230 12.8 54 0
Hall KC 19 180 9.5 22 1
Evans Buff 18 234 13.0 49 1
Toomer NYG 24 289 12.0 37 2
Parker SD 24 316 13.2 33 1

[Northman]

All Ray-Ray did was kill someone.

All Jamal did was set up a coke deal.

All Randy did was hit a parking attendant with a car.

All Rod did was beat his wife.




These have nothing to do with with their respective teams. those are all personal issues.

[fdf]

WTF ever man, everyone love Portis and his antics when he was here!!

Not me. The pimp routine wore thin the very first time I saw it and it kept getting thinner and thinner as time went by. I thought he was going to be a problem at his first press conference and was glad to see him go. Of course, I'm also glad that the Broncs got good value.

[TheReverend]

That argument has no basis whatsoever when you take into account that we're the 2nd best rushing team in this league. If you compare the 2nd WR's of the top 10 rushing sides in the NFL, Ash's numbers are just about right bar the Colts.
Jenkins Atlanta 15 249 16.6 58 1
Lelie Denver 22 339 15.4 55 1
Engram Seattle 30 340 11.3 26 0
Wayne Indy 46 561 12.2 51 3
Randle El Pitt 16 328 20.5 63 1
Bradley Chicago 18 230 12.8 54 0
Hall KC 19 180 9.5 22 1
Evans Buff 18 234 13.0 49 1
Toomer NYG 24 289 12.0 37 2
Parker SD 24 316 13.2 33 1

Dont bother making sense, he "doesnt fit the system". Whatever that means...

PS. all intents and purposes, Ashley is our #1 receiver.

[TheReverend]

These have nothing to do with with their respective teams. those are all personal issues.

This is about media criticism, actually. You think they're not the ones in the middle pushing for quotes to blow things out of proportion since he first wanted a new contract?

[Taco John]

All Ray-Ray did was kill someone.

All Jamal did was set up a coke deal.

All Randy did was hit a parking attendant with a car.

All Rod did was beat his wife.

The nerve of TO to speculate on his quarterback!



None of that can be considered conduct detrimental to the team. To themselves, yes. To the team? Not hardly.

TO did something that has never been seen in Professional Football. He very publically sabotaged his teams chances to get to the post season in the MIDDLE of the season. It's pretty clear that this has been his plan all along, and now that it's backfiring on him, he's playing the victim.

"I told you! I told you this would happen if you didn't pay me."

[Northman]

This is about media criticism, actually. You think they're not the ones in the middle pushing for quotes to blow things out of proportion since he first wanted a new contract?


I dont see anything out of proportion. T.O pulled the same **** in SF. when things didnt go his way he whined about how the rest of the team let HIM down. and quite frankly, Jamal Lewis has taken a lot of heat the last couple of weeks regarding his character because he too wants a new contract and supposedly isnt playing that hard cause he doesnt want to get hurt in the process. one thing ive learned about the media is if you dont give them ammo there is nothing to write about. T.O likes to hear himself talk and therefore all the media attention is something he likes. but as he is finding out, its starting to backfire cause no one is putting up with his antics any longer.

[TheReverend]

None of that can be considered conduct detrimental to the team. To themselves, yes. To the team? Not hardly.

TO did something that has never been seen in Professional Football. He very publically sabotaged his teams chances to get to the post season in the MIDDLE of the season. It's pretty clear that this has been his plan all along, and now that it's backfiring on him, he's playing the victim.

"I told you! I told you this would happen if you didn't pay me."

The NFL has teams that they love and will refuse to criticize. We got blasted for the Browns moves... had the Pats picked it up, it wouldve been "Belicek genius" instead of "Shannahan on the Hot Seat".

Theyre the same with Philly and their Campbell's soup model, Donovan-I-Can't-Throw-Anywhere-Except-At-Your-Feet-McNabb. TO has been a scapegoat for a season under expectations, NOT the reason.

[Rock Chalk]

The NFL has teams that they love and will refuse to criticize. We got blasted for the Browns moves... had the Pats picked it up, it wouldve been "Belicek genius" instead of "Shannahan on the Hot Seat".

Theyre the same with Philly and their Campbell's soup model, Donovan-I-Can't-Throw-Anywhere-Except-At-Your-Feet-McNabb. TO has been a scapegoat for a season under expectations, NOT the reason.
What the hell are you smoking?

[Taco John]

The NFL has teams that they love and will refuse to criticize. We got blasted for the Browns moves... had the Pats picked it up, it wouldve been "Belicek genius" instead of "Shannahan on the Hot Seat".

Whatever. I don't buy any of that. There are teams that are winning and teams that are losing. The teams that are winning get praise. The teams that are losing get scorn. Shanahan had just as many heads scratching in his own city as there were on the national landscape. As far as the Bilicek vs. Shanahan goes, only one of these men have won three superbowls in the last four years. That man isn't likely going to get "hot seat" talk no matter who he signs.


Theyre the same with Philly and their Campbell's soup model, Donovan-I-Can't-Throw-Anywhere-Except-At-Your-Feet-McNabb. TO has been a scapegoat for a season under expectations, NOT the reason.


TO has thrust himself into the spotlight during a season that the Eagles are struggling. It's not like there is a conspiracy against TO and in favor of Donovan McNabb. TO just has really awful timing. The time to thrust your contract ass in the media is not at a time when your team is struggling to put together wins and your team is fighting over last place in the division that you were supposed to be dominating.

The media is hardly to blame for TO's stupidity.

[bronco militia]

We learned from our mistakes :pray:

dale carter

Daryl Gardner

Slo MoC...

learned from what mistakes?

[Sooner_Redhawk]

Getting TO is like the Jump to Conclusions Mat. Bad idea !

[Mile High Shack]

Cost you the chance of possibly having another valuable player on the roster like say Marion Barber who was better than Clarrett on talent alone and didn't come with a boatload of baggage and a three ring circus. It didn't cost the team any cash but it certainly wasn't without cost.

you are ignorant

I'm more than happy with MA and Bell

[TheReverend]

TO has thrust himself into the spotlight during a season that the Eagles are struggling. It's not like there is a conspiracy against TO and in favor of Donovan McNabb. TO just has really awful timing. The time to thrust your contract ass in the media is not at a time when your team is struggling to put together wins and your team is fighting over last place in the division that you were supposed to be dominating.

The media is hardly to blame for TO's stupidity.

Youre right... the time to ask for more money is after you had an incredible Superbowl outing THROUGH injury and the team was 15 million under the cap... wait, thats exactly what he did...

[listopencil]

next question should be, How many neg reps is BMF going to get after everyone reads this thread?


Nah, I gave you pos rep because you made a good point. I think TO is a piece of **** but it's not like he's going to overpower Plummer or something.

[Taco John]

Boy, we've sure got plenty of free agent wins to go with the losses.

I'm not even arguing in favor of TO... yet... There's nothing to really "discuss" until he's actually released from the team. Everything between then and now is nothing more than guessing and double talk from coaches. The only thing we can do is count on the fact that Shanahan is going to follow his well known standard on bringing a player in: "can he help me win a Superbowl?"

If people want to make the argument that Terrell Owens can't help the Broncos win Superbowl, there are plenty of compelling arguments to make. Likewise on the other side. But to simply throw a dismissive wave of the mouse and say Shanahan WONT do it just because of how bad you hate Terrell Owens (or how much you like Lelie) isn't much of a discussion at all.

The fact is, the best wide receiver in the NFL is out there for the taking for very cheap, and we could use a playmaker at WR. Those are just facts. That's not saying Terrell Owens should come. That's just saying we could use a playmaker at WR, and that he's available. That's not saying anything about whether he could help us win a Superbowl or not.

If someone want's to make the argument that we don't "need" Terrell Owens to win a Superbowl... well, there's another argument that doesn't center on "I don't like TO, so you're wrong."

Personally, all I'm interested in is the question on whether TO would help us win a Superbowl or not. Given the context of our own situation, I think it's risky business. But it's high risk, high reward type of risky business, which to me is at least worth consideration. I don't believe anybody, including Shanahan, has enough information yet to make a determination as to the answer of that question.

What I don't believe is that it's simply out of the question. At least not this early in the game.

[Tombstone RJ]

If TO did come to the Broncos, the Broncos would be his fourth team in three years... Just think of the smack talk he'd get into with Randy Moss... it'd be high times in Broncoland if TO went to the Black Hole and outplayed his division rival...

[Taco John]

Youre right... the time to ask for more money is after you had an incredible Superbowl outing THROUGH injury and the team was 15 million under the cap... wait, thats exactly what he did...


Hmmm... All this time I thought that the time to ask for more money is when you are negotiating your seven year contract deal that is theoretically supposed to keep you locked down in one place for a long time.

As far as that goes, when is the last time Denver renegotiated a players contract after only one year on the team? It never happens. A player has to make it through at least two seasons before they'll even get a look. Most teams are going to play it that way, because they have the power to. Until, of course, that player decides to grab that power back by way of a media tantrum in which he sabotages your locker room and gets directly confrontational with your quarterback.

All this Donovan McNabb stuff out of TO is nothing more than jealousy. He's jealous that Donovan McNabb has the money he doesn't, and so he pays the Eagles back by taking out his frustrations on him. None of this is about winning. It's about TO being pissed that he's not the center of the universe.

All that being said, the headache that comes with TO *might* be worth the hardware that could come with him if a team was in the right situation. A team like Kansas City would be dangerous with a receiving threat like TO. I don't think TO and Moss could co-exist, so I'll discount the Raiders. The Chargers and TO could be a Superbowl sealing combination for Marty, and he'd be the center of the universe in San Diego. In Denver, it's hard to say. I have a hard time believing TO and Plummer could strike a balance with eachother, but if the did, man would our offense hum...

But whatever the case, I don't think you can dismiss what a huge boob Terrell Owens is being about all of this, despite the fact that it's his own actions that are getting him into these situations. He's not being treated differently than anyone else would be in that same situation. There is such a thing as shutting up and playing football.

[Moon§hiner]

All this Donovan McNabb stuff out of TO is nothing more than jealousy. He's jealous that Donovan McNabb has the money he doesn't, and so he pays the Eagles back by taking out his frustrations on him. None of this is about winning. It's about TO being pissed that he's not the center of the universe.
etc etc


But whatever the case, I don't think you can dismiss what a huge boob Terrell Owens is being about all of this, despite the fact that it's his own actions that are getting him into these situations. He's not being treated differently than anyone else would be in that same situation. There is such a thing as shutting up and playing football.

I agree....the guy has missed out on so much commercial dollars because nobody wants to touch him...The sharpie pen incident should have got him a commercial...he just alienates people and it's cost him more in the long run than anything else. He lost me as a fan when he pizzed on the Cowboy star and I hate the Cowboys. If I want an attention whore, I'll come here and read Bobs your Uncle.

[TheReverend]

Hmmm... All this time I thought that the time to ask for more money is when you are negotiating your seven year contract deal that is theoretically supposed to keep you locked down in one place for a long time.

As far as that goes, when is the last time Denver renegotiated a players contract after only one year on the team? It never happens. A player has to make it through at least two seasons before they'll even get a look. Most teams are going to play it that way, because they have the power to. Until, of course, that player decides to grab that power back by way of a media tantrum in which he sabotages your locker room and gets directly confrontational with your quarterback.

All this Donovan McNabb stuff out of TO is nothing more than jealousy. He's jealous that Donovan McNabb has the money he doesn't, and so he pays the Eagles back by taking out his frustrations on him. None of this is about winning. It's about TO being pissed that he's not the center of the universe.

All that being said, the headache that comes with TO *might* be worth the hardware that could come with him if a team was in the right situation. A team like Kansas City would be dangerous with a receiving threat like TO. I don't think TO and Moss could co-exist, so I'll discount the Raiders. The Chargers and TO could be a Superbowl sealing combination for Marty, and he'd be the center of the universe in San Diego. In Denver, it's hard to say. I have a hard time believing TO and Plummer could strike a balance with eachother, but if the did, man would our offense hum...

But whatever the case, I don't think you can dismiss what a huge boob Terrell Owens is being about all of this, despite the fact that it's his own actions that are getting him into these situations. He's not being treated differently than anyone else would be in that same situation. There is such a thing as shutting up and playing football.

Turn on the TV, he MUST be the center of the universe.

Im defending TO for certain reasons:
1. Much worse has been done by an NFL player with less repercusions
2. We hardly know both sides to the story
3. Taking the time to get out of the bath, put on your shoes, and THEN beat Hugh Douglass' ass deserves respect. Fighting IS the best way to resolve a situation.

[The Big E]

TO is going to be a one-year contract guy from now on, and it isn't out of the question that we might take a shot on him. He's a horse's arse, but he is probably the best receiver in football and we could use a player of his abilities. And I don't think his antics would cause any problems with Plummer's confidence. Still, I doubt we'll go after him, but I don't see how management could go without at least taking a close look.

[BroncoBuff]

all i know is, how scary would Lelie be on that Colts team? ouch.

Yep. Or the Rams or Chiefs.

I must've missed something . . . you guys are kidding, right?

[BroncoBuff]

If TO did come to the Broncos, the Broncos would be his fourth team in three years... Just think of the smack talk he'd get into with Randy Moss... it'd be high times in Broncoland if TO went to the Black Hole and outplayed his division rival...
Fourth? Niners, Eagles . . . who's the 3rd?



I'm gonna say YES to T.O. . . . with several conditions:
Shanny states publicly - VERY OPENLY - for ALL to hear, that:
1) TO is probably gonna be trouble . . .
2) TO will probably have to be cut, maybe sooner rather than later . . .
3) TO is on a very short leash . . .
4) TO's standing is the 53rd man . . .
5) That any "antics" will be mocked by all coaches, staff. roster and even practice squad players,
6) That he will not automatically be a starter . . .
THEN MAYBE . . . if he agrees - IN PUBLIC - to all this . . .
We can take him on as the #3 or 4 WR - on a game-by-game basis.
I will add that T.O. should get another agent first. Then, privately - they can massage T.O. all they want. Shanny and Rod and Jake get him into a private meeting, and massage that ego . . .

"we know you're the greatest, Tee, we just gotta keep you under the radar a little so all these bastards don't come hounding you again . . . it'll be our secret, man . . . and we'll all be laughing in Detroit in February!"

I'm glad some of you here are at least CONSIDERING Owens on this post . . . the other post, where I pulled my quote from, everybody was like: "No way", "no freaking way", "can't imagine a scenario", "how many ways can you say no?", "my answer starts with 'God forbid.'", and "burn this thread!"

PEOPLE: We're talking about the best wideout in the game . . . who plays hard!

If he loses Rosenhaus, we should do it.

.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

I dont know if there'd be fisticuffs, but Jake is definately his own man. If Owens spouted off, I could see Jake throwing the ball to someone else.
You forget that Jake had another head case in David Boston in Arizona. The only difference is that TO doesn't take plays off, he just wants all of them designed for him. Plummer is outspoken enough to get into a verbal war with TO if it came to that.

[Broncoman13]

I don't know how to answer that question. My only point is that Shanahan is going to ask two questions:

1. Would he help or hurt our chances to win a Superbowl?
2. Do we have the ability to do it?

If the answer to #1 is that Shanahan believes he'll help our chances to win a Superbowl, then we'll go after him. If Shanahan doesn't believe he'd help our chances, then we won't go after him.

I'm not making any judgements on whether one direction or the other is the right decision or not. I don't have all the facts. Shanahan does though. And he's proven that he's bold enough to make just about any move if he thinks it will help the team achieve the pinnacle.


I'll go the controversial route and say that he'd be a very good final piece of the puzzle. I'm not sure if you guys are talking this year or if you're talking for next year?

Here's what I think is going to happen. I don't know the exacts of this so I could be wrong. My guess is that the Eagles are going to release him before this season is over. If they get through the arbitration hearing and can in fact fine him the $800k they will release him around week 12 or 13. If the arbitration hearing goes against them and they cannot with hold his money they will cut him sooner.

I hear Dick Vermeil on the radio today and he said that he would not be interested in TO should he become available. I figured they would be the ones to jump on him considering their WR corps.

Here's what you have to consider. 1st, if you're talking for the rest of this year only you have to believe that he's going to be a model citizen. He's trying for a big pay day still. If he can go to a team, play well for half a season, and keep his mouth shut he has an outside chance at a 4 or 5 year deal worth 30+ and about 10 up front. Whoever gets him will benefit greatly for half a season b/c you'll be getting a quieted and dare I say humbled TO.

2nd, if you're talking next year you have to consider this. Whatever team brings him in is going to have so many clauses in his contract that he won't be capable of being an ass. For example, if he were to come to Denver Shanny could put in his contract that should he act in a manner that is detrimental to the team, the team has the right to recoup 90% of all bonus money. Also consider that TO has talked his way out of millions right now. He's still the best WR in the game and even if he slows down a bit he's still good for 1000 yards and 10 or so TD's. So with that in mind you give him 10 mil up front (still a lot, but toned down from what he's asking) then sign him to a back loaded $30 million deal. Paying him maybe 1 mil in base for the first couple years, then 4, 5, 7 and 9 over the final 4. So you have a game breaker that costs 3 mil for the first two years and then jumps to 6, 7, 8 and 11. Knowing how the NFL works those last two or three years of salary will never be realized...and best of all you have protection against the Ugly T.O.

I know this isn't the popular choice and I'm certainly in the minority, but I'd take him in a heartbeat IF I have protection in the contract to disuade him from acting up.

Last but not least, for those of you that are blaming TO for the problems that SanFran is having or the problems that Philly is having right now... GET A CLUE!

TO didn't cause the cap hell in San Fran. TO didn't cause the team to draft poorly, select shiatty coaches, or have idiots in the front office. That team was on it's way down whether they had TO or not. Same with Philly. Is it TO's fault that an injured QB is asked to throw the ball 45+ times per game? If you say yes it's b/c he cried about getting the ball so much then how do you explain the last game vs the Skins? TO wasn't playing and Reid still threw the ball 65% of the time. He's played a small role in Philly being 4-4 this season but not as much as many of you claim.

Sorry for the rant... just my $.02x2

[broncogary]

...

TO didn't cause the cap hell in San Fran. TO didn't cause the team to draft poorly, select shiatty coaches, or have idiots in the front office. That team was on it's way down whether they had TO or not. Same with Philly. Is it TO's fault that an injured QB is asked to throw the ball 45+ times per game? If you say yes it's b/c he cried about getting the ball so much then how do you explain the last game vs the Skins? TO wasn't playing and Reid still threw the ball 65% of the time. He's played a small role in Philly being 4-4 this season but not as much as many of you claim.

Sorry for the rant... just my $.02x2

And with the drugs they have today, TO may be Miss Merry Sunshine next year. :~ohyah!:

[Broncoman13]

There's certainly no guarantees. Shanny has done some good with different players... he's also had some known clowns continue their ways. TO isn't a Shanny type player, not with Shanny buying into the BB key of team players rather than key players on a team motto...

[Crushaholic]

5 pages into this thread, I have to address the title of the thread. We took Clarett in the off-chance he did some growing up during his absence from football. TO is 32. If he hasn't grown up by now, he never will...

[sirhcyennek81]

Considering denver has two runningbacks who have 500 yards each, drafting clarett was adding depth to a deep position. Clarett assumed he just had to show up, and that alone would win him a spot. Shanahan saw that Clarett was going nowhere, quickly, and decided to go another direction. TO is an immense physical talent, game breaker, but what he would bring in the short term would fade in the long term. I dont want JUST a third SB title. I want more then that, naturally, I assume the Broncos want more then that, too. There is no garentee, not one, that TO means SB win, or even an appearance in the title game. Would TO be happy with 3 catches a game, even if that means we win? I dont think so.

[watermock]

comparing T.O. to Clarett is absurd...I'm not going to bother.

[-Slap-]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2005/football/nfl/11/08/bc.fbn.eagles.owensfutu.ap/p1_owens_apologize.jpg

Iam mental
This is the kind of look TO likes to whip on media types who've criticized him in the past. Especially the ex-players.

[Taco John]

comparing T.O. to Clarett is absurd...I'm not going to bother.


Nobody is comparing T.O. to Clarett. What's being called into the spotlight are the size of Shanahan's huevos when it comes to making personnel moves that go against the grain of the groupthink that happens in the media.

[Carolina D-Boy]

T.O. is somewhat the NFL's version of Dennis Rodman. When Dennis was playing for Larry Brown in San Antonio all he did was cause problems on and off the court. They had all the talent they needed on that team but they didn't have a leader. David Robinson and Donavan Mcnabb are both great players in their own right but neither one is a vocal leader. If T.O. can go to a team where he can respect, whoever the leader of that team is as a man he will be fine (Dennis with Mike and Phil). I don't really see T.O. confronting a player on Broncos team without Al Wilson or Shanny stepping in. And lets not forget we had or own problems here a couple year ago with Daryl Gardener. And how would any of us feel if the Raiders gave up Jerry Porter and a number 1 to get TO. Al Davis will do anything!!!