Can Cooper get some love?

[i4jelway7]

I'd like to give props to the O-line especially Carlisle.. Before the season started everyone was down on him and so far he has performed better than Neil ever did... I can't even count how many times I wanted to reach through the screen and punch Dan Neil for all those false starts....

[bronco militia]

screw copper...brass kicks ass!

[bendog]

I thought Carlisle played well last week.

[i4jelway7]

screw copper...brass kicks ass!

doh... :-/ fixed it..

[Mile High Shack]

don't let rascal read this thread

he has some vendetta against carlisle

even though he has played good this year :)

[Hotrod]

Blart would give him some love but thats really none of my business.

[Ray Finkle]

he has played well but I wanted the Broncos to draft baas to replace him...

[Hotrod]

he has played well but I wanted the Broncos to draft baas to replace him...

Just keep saying this "two first round olineman in 06" :yep:

[Phantom]

300+ yards passing - to 8 different receivers.
Two 100+ yard backs.
49 total offensive points.
Over 550 total yards.
One offensive holding penalty - not on Coop.

Ya, Coop deserves some love. He's part of the machine.

^5

[Rascal]

I made a post regarding Carlisle the other day.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=824839&postcount=8

I don't have a vendetta against him I just think he is our weakest link on the line. Although he has improved since last year but he still has some serious flaws in his technique.

Okay I had a vendetta last year after watching him screw up consistently, but like I said he has improved this year.

[Ray Finkle]

Just keep saying this "two first round olineman in 06" :yep:


I think they go FS and OL/DL with those picks...

[ludo21]

Coop has played very well this year. In fact better than i expected. I expected him to be the weak link that held our OL back, but he has gelled and the OL is a machine thus far.

[Rascal]

I disagree hotrod. If we can resign Lepsis to a better contract then I don't think we should use a first on the o-line.

Like Finkle I would rather spend it on safety, WR, DE (assuming that either Pryce or Brown don't come back), QB.

We can get some decent guards and tackles in the 2nd and 3rd round.

[i4jelway7]

I made a post regarding Carlisle the other day.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=824839&postcount=8

I don't have a vendetta against him I just think he is our weakest link on the line. Although he has improved since last year but he still has some serious flaws in his technique.

Okay I had a vendetta last year after watching him screw up consistently, but like I said he has improved this year.


I missed that post, but great observations Rascal

[Rascal]

My dream job would be a line coach. That's all I practically watch during the game anyway. Damn skill position players are a bunch of pansies anyway.

[bendog]

Den has Lepsis to try and sign, and I don't think there's any doubt that he's the key FA next year. He is the best guy on the oline, and they need to keep him. Nails has the roster bonus, so he's likely gone, which means Hamilton to center, so they need an olineman next year. Maybe Myers, maybe a FA. Stiff task for a rook to come in and start. But regardless, I think Carlisle has pretty much staked claim to RG. And that leads to a problem because Den currently runs pretty much left, and that side will be in transition next year. So, here's hoping to Foster and Cooper jelling like Lepsis and Neil did a few years ago.

[Rascal]

I woulnd't be suprised to see Myers become the center and they keep Hamilton and Lepsis together on the left side bendog.

[bendog]

I woulnd't be suprised to see Myers become the center and they keep Hamilton and Lepsis together on the left side bendog.
I hope not. Hamilton is doing ok, but he doesn't have the killer edge of Stinky or Neil. We need a guard with a bad attitude.

[Rascal]

Yeah I understand I would just be concerned about him getting manhandled by some of the mammoth NT in the 3-4 lineup.

I would love to have a road grader next to foster.

[Rascal]

One thing that has been a pleasant suprise to me is the ability of the line to get a push. In previous years we didn't get a push and it was more of a seal type thing and hopefully the RB could find a seam. This year we are getting a push to go along with the seal and it's benefits have been obvious. I don't have the numbers but I'd be willing to bet all my vbucks that we are having less runs of no gain or losses this then in previous years.

[bendog]

Seems to me both tackles get push. Earlier in the year, I thought Carlisle was ending too many plays standing up. He'd occupy his space, which was good, but he wasn't finishing plays by hitting someone. Last week on the first td he blasted somebody.

Stinky and TBone could both fire out, and take their guys out low to get push. From what I've seen, and I haven't rewatched but one or two games in all, Hamilton is doing better than I recall last year. I don't have doubts about him at center because imo he's stronger than Nails.

Interesting thought about a road grader at RG. I don't think it will happen because shanny will have to move at least the center and prolly the LG too, and moving a RG too would be a lot of change. Possible though. Carlisle next to Lepsis on the left. He's bigger and prolly stonger than Hamilton. Been in the system long enough to do it.

Hard to get a roadgrader type guard who can not just pull and trap but also get into the linebacker area and hit moving targets without penalites.

[DarkHorse30]

I think they go FS and OL/DL with those picks...

from what I've seen on the draft , there may not be a first-round FS worth taking.

Will there be any FAs available? I'd almost like to grab Sharper away from the minnesota-mess, but that would only work if they cut him. He could be cut, IF the vikings want to rebuild their offense and use some defense cuts to put money towards that goal. Sharper's base salary doubles to 1.9M plus likely 1-2M in yearly bonus money, and I doubt he would trim his salary since he got cut from GreenBay last year after wanting 2M/year minimum.

[bendog]

I originally thougth oline but now don't know. How is the WR class? I was pretty sure of dline because Big Money will want big money. With CB in at a reas value, then the question is Pryce. How much will he want after this year. If the cap is there, I can see shanny signing him and trading one of the one picks for a pick in a later year, unless the 2007 class is predicted to be exceptionally weak like last year.

[Ray Finkle]

from what I've seen on the draft , there may not be a first-round FS worth taking.

Will there be any FAs available? I'd almost like to grab Sharper away from the minnesota-mess, but that would only work if they cut him. He could be cut, IF the vikings want to rebuild their offense and use some defense cuts to put money towards that goal. Sharper's base salary doubles to 1.9M plus likely 1-2M in yearly bonus money, and I doubt he would trim his salary since he got cut from GreenBay last year after wanting 2M/year minimum.

thwack

don't make me choke you...have you seen Sharper play? He is gawd-awful....

[DarkHorse30]

thwack

don't make me choke you...have you seen Sharper play? He is gawd-awful....

Yes...and the whole defense is upside down on a terribly coached team. Perfect time to pick up a good player, when their value is low. The only thing I don't like about him is that he is a bit of a loudmouth. Otherwise, he seemed to make a ton of plays for Green Bay.

[Ray Finkle]

Yes...and the whole defense is upside down on a terribly coached team. Perfect time to pick up a good player, when their value is low. The only thing I don't like about him is that he is a bit of a loudmouth. Otherwise, he seemed to make a ton of plays for Green Bay.


Which part of old and slow do you like? On a bad defense, someone needs to make plays....

[Kaylore]

Actually I think the board has been pretty soft on Carlisle. I honestly expected "Cooper sucks" threads after every single game with at least three after every loss, but people have left him alone here. He is definitely better than Neil right now.

[Rascal]

Actually I think the board has been pretty soft on Carlisle. I honestly expected "Cooper sucks" threads after every single game with at least three after every loss, but people have left him alone here. He is definitely better than Neil right now.

I was told not to start any under penalty of banishment or I would have. ROFL!

I'm probably his biggest critic on the board and if he keeps performing the way he has you won't see any threads from me.

[Rascal]

Seems to me both tackles get push. Earlier in the year, I thought Carlisle was ending too many plays standing up. He'd occupy his space, which was good, but he wasn't finishing plays by hitting someone. Last week on the first td he blasted somebody.

Stinky and TBone could both fire out, and take their guys out low to get push. From what I've seen, and I haven't rewatched but one or two games in all, Hamilton is doing better than I recall last year. I don't have doubts about him at center because imo he's stronger than Nails.

Interesting thought about a road grader at RG. I don't think it will happen because shanny will have to move at least the center and prolly the LG too, and moving a RG too would be a lot of change. Possible though. Carlisle next to Lepsis on the left. He's bigger and prolly stonger than Hamilton. Been in the system long enough to do it.

Hard to get a roadgrader type guard who can not just pull and trap but also get into the linebacker area and hit moving targets without penalites.

First I don't care if he ends the play standing up as long as his guy is on the ground.

I don't think anybody is stronger then nails. Quicker perhaps but I doubt stronger.

I like the idea but like you mentioned it would require a lot of movement and like you I don't think Shanny wants to mess with the chemistry that much.

I'm not talking about a 330 pound monster, but a guy that weighs about 300 and fires out hard and low and can just bury people but have the mobility to get to the second level. It would probably have to be a second rounder to be honest and develop for 2007.

[watermock]

Coop has played better than I expected, but there is still OL needs, no question...from what I understand, this draft is knee deep in good OL...take a prospective LT...DON'T MOVE FOSTER, he's finally decent at RT...and make it a pick that the guy is versatile and can play both guard and tackle. We don't usually draft high for OL with the exception of Foster, but this is a very good draft for a potential franchise LT if Washington can stumble enough.

I don't think there is any question we need a star coverage S, but I dunno if there will be one with the second pick...I'm not encouraged with the claw...I'm sure they will try to revive him next camp, but right now, all bets are off...

One thing for sure, after we get what I expect to be 2 thirds for Kenoy and Hayward, we are going to be reeling in fish like Peter on the lake. It's hard to say what will happen on DL...Pryce is a cap buster. Brown has played well, but isn't dominating like we had hoped. He's still very valuable...as usual, choices will have to be made to get under the cap. 11 million is just too much for Trevor unless he can redo his contract, and he's no spring chicken...he might have 4-5 years left If he can stay healthy...

There might not be a S worthy of a first rounder, but second round should still have some great prospects if we do out homework properly...I hope we are allready busy bees gathering tape like chipmunks.

Luckily, we look fine at QB now, and BVP has played very well and still has upside, and RB looks fine as well, or we wouldn't of cut Q. The line snapped in unison as well...as well as I had seen all year last Sunday. So we have a few things set. Again, Rod doesn't really appear to have lost more than half a step, but you just never know when that wall is gonna hit, despite his work ethic...DEVO keeps adding shine to his game....but I dunno if he will ever be a starter...maybe.

[bendog]

First I don't care if he ends the play standing up as long as his guy is on the ground.

I don't think anybody is stronger then nails. Quicker perhaps but I doubt stronger.

I like the idea but like you mentioned it would require a lot of movement and like you I don't think Shanny wants to mess with the chemistry that much.

I'm not talking about a 330 pound monster, but a guy that weighs about 300 and fires out hard and low and can just bury people but have the mobility to get to the second level. It would probably have to be a second rounder to be honest and develop for 2007.

My pt was sure his zone is clear much of the time, but he didn't seem to be looking for someone to hit. But in the philly game he flat out wiped some iggle out on the first TD. You were talkign push. Carlisle definitely had push on that play, which isn't something I'd seen. On a zone blocking scheme Neil's zone would be clear, and he'd find someone to hit just to give them some ouch. If Carlisle brings the same nasty approach he'll be fine.

[chrisp]

I used to think that the line was our weakest area. I don't now, I think they've silenced all the doubters and have established themselves as one of the premier offensive lines in this league. Now I'm prepared to accept that coop may not be the best player on that line, but he's certainly a big part of that success, plus, the one big advantage he has over Dan Neil is that he isn't physically done. Neil was a great player for us but he was finished physically so we needed a healthy body in there.

Now, if you take it from the end of last season, the personnel on the line hasn't changed hardly at all, but the line as a whole has, just think about it:

Foster: Last year was his first proper year in the game - he spent his rookie season on the bench
Lepsis: Was making the transition from RT to LT
Carlisle: Stepped in for Neil, but wasn't the starter in camp, so didn;t get to gell with the rest of the line so much.

The only two who are relatively unchanged in position and play are Hamilton and Nalen.

...and don't forget Dennison. He's now managed to finally make the line his own, and I don't think you can argue with the job he's done now. Yeah, he's not going to shout and scream like Gibbs did, but that's not the only way you get results....and maybe Rick's way get's the same results without the corresponding nervous breakdown....

so 2004 was a tough year for the line but they still played pretty good Suddenly you have consistency in the personnel from the end of last year and they could have a shot at being something special.

I don't think that the coaching staff are 100% sold on Hamilton as the heir apparent to Nalen when he retires, but I think that's got more to do with the fact that they love his guard play than any doubts over his ability to play center. I think that if Nalen does retire, Hamilton will step into centre and Myers will take the vacant guard spot, but don't assume that Nalen is done just yet.

Untill this season I was thinking we needed to draft another stud for the line, but now I think we're doing just fine as we are.....

[bendog]

Actually I think the board has been pretty soft on Carlisle. I honestly expected "Cooper sucks" threads after every single game with at least three after every loss, but people have left him alone here. He is definitely better than Neil right now.
Ok, he sucks, shanny sucks for picking dennison who really sucks and it Pat Bowlen weren't such a spineless CANADIAN pussy, he'd fire the lot of them and either move back to his home country or shoot himself in the head :moody:

[bendog]

I used to think that the line was our weakest area. I don't now, I think they've silenced all the doubters and have established themselves as one of the premier offensive lines in this league. Now I'm prepared to accept that coop may not be the best player on that line, but he's certainly a big part of that success, plus, the one big advantage he has over Dan Neil is that he isn't physically done. Neil was a great player for us but he was finished physically so we needed a healthy body in there.

Now, if you take it from the end of last season, the personnel on the line hasn't changed hardly at all, but the line as a whole has, just think about it:

Foster: Last year was his first proper year in the game - he spent his rookie season on the bench
Lepsis: Was making the transition from RT to LT
Carlisle: Stepped in for Neil, but wasn't the starter in camp, so didn;t get to gell with the rest of the line so much.

The only two who are relatively unchanged in position and play are Hamilton and Nalen.

...and don't forget Dennison. He's now managed to finally make the line his own, and I don't think you can argue with the job he's done now. Yeah, he's not going to shout and scream like Gibbs did, but that's not the only way you get results....and maybe Rick's way get's the same results without the corresponding nervous breakdown....

so 2004 was a tough year for the line but they still played pretty good Suddenly you have consistency in the personnel from the end of last year and they could have a shot at being something special.

I don't think that the coaching staff are 100% sold on Hamilton as the heir apparent to Nalen when he retires, but I think that's got more to do with the fact that they love his guard play than any doubts over his ability to play center. I think that if Nalen does retire, Hamilton will step into centre and Myers will take the vacant guard spot, but don't assume that Nalen is done just yet.

Untill this season I was thinking we needed to draft another stud for the line, but now I think we're doing just fine as we are.....

I don't think nails is washed up, but his roster bonus, signing Lepsis and signing big money may not work out.

[Rascal]

I think I remember seeing an article about Nails saying he was going to finish as a bronco and that next year will probably be his last. To bad he is one hell of a player.

[watermock]

Last week was the first time I had seen the OL come off the snap tight and hard, getting the early advantage, that is crucial with a line that isn't able to bull its way except for maybe Foster...the other 4 are tiny by today's standards...Nalen and Lepsis don't come close to tipping 300 and Hamilton might wander around that...one play in particular they just jumped on the Iggles like a bunch of tigers all at once....the line has improved...I see it...it's not a matter of playing the Eagles, they simply looked more in sync...when you have a relatively small line, getting the early advantage is everything. That means popping the DL in unison and gaining the strategic advantage...they also had some fantastic pulling by hamilton and nalen on those sweeps...along with Putz and Lelie blocking downfield...Putz handled a LB, and Lelie catfought a CB as Bell was never touched...I was sure they were going to call holding on that play on Lelie, it could of been, but they let it go...I was amazed...usually we get screwed, but it was kinda holding...and it was after bell was allready past...at any rate, it wasn't called and that iced it. The last TD was just sand kicked in the face...

I still say we get at least two OL in a OL rich draft, but lets enjoy the ride...it's kinda comforting in a way that at least we have a truckload of picks coming up in case we fall on our ass again...but I think this team will challenge...the Giants game we were jobbed, but that's life.

I just couldn't believe the refs in that game not calling offensive holding, and Burress was pushing off ALL GAME...when they finally called it, they made it offsetting, essentially giving the Giants another play after an incompletion...

[ozomulsion]

I'm proud of the boy. I think most of us judged him to early. I know I did. Here's to myers becoming a stud. I'm sure that will happen. Very sure. Do we have any other studs on the waiting list. Man, it sucks we missed out on the guy who Atlanta grabbed. The name escapes me.

[Dean]

he has played well but I wanted the Broncos to draft baas to replace him...

I wanted the same thing. I can't complain about last year's draft though.

Next year I see Nalen being released and Hamilton moving to center. Alexander will be one of the guards and Carlisle will be the other. I would sure like to see Lepsis staying but he may be too expensive. If so, Foster and Green will most likely be the tackles. We would have both quality and experience but it is hard to tell if they would have time to gel.

[Rascal]

PJ Alexander at guard scares me even more then Carlisle did this year.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Well the best part about Carlisle's play is that he has not hurt them. They are running the left side almost twice as often as in the past and they are not doing much in the way of drop back passing. The play calling is protecting Carlisles. Imagine how many more yards they could get on the ground if they could run to the right side as well as the left. RG is the most glaring weakness on the team, but I doubt a first round pick fills the hole.

[Rascal]

Well the best part about Carlisle's play is that he has not hurt them. They are running the left side almost twice as often as in the past and they are not doing much in the way of drop back passing. The play calling is protecting Carlisles. Imagine how many more yards they could get on the ground if they could run to the right side as well as the left. RG is the most glaring weakness on the team, but I doubt a first round pick fills the hole.

I thought that was correct (running more to the left then right) but I didn't have the numbers to back it up.

[ozomulsion]

I wanted the same thing. I can't complain about last year's draft though.

Next year I see Nalen being released and Hamilton moving to center. Alexander will be one of the guards and Carlisle will be the other. I would sure like to see Lepsis staying but he may be too expensive. If so, Foster and Green will most likely be the tackles. We would have both quality and experience but it is hard to tell if they would have time to gel.

What about Myers? P.J. can just keep riding his four wheeler for all I care.

[baja]

I did not read every post here and I don't know as much about O line play as some of you obviously do but the thing I notice is the big drop in false start and holding penalties. I don't know the numbers but I bet the decrease in penalties is quite significant.