View Full Version : I wasnt going to post here , but I am caught in the middle of a huge fight
Spider
11-01-2005, 06:59 AM
as some of you know I move oil rigs for a living , hard work , just got harder ...
I have moved 4 oil Rigs to desolation flats ( Red Desert Wyoming ) and the scenery is awesome , Watching Wild Horses Running as the sun come up is somthing to see , but I also understand the need for Oil and development , well anyway a Rancher blew a gasket and closed off the main road in ( not that it was a good road to begin with ) but now we have to travel an extra 2 hours and trample over land that doesnt have to be ..........
http://www.westerndemocrat.com/2005/10/kemmis_freudent.html
Anyhoo , I tend to see the Ranchers point of view more .........
Spider
11-01-2005, 07:07 AM
This is a serious Problem guys , it has @ times almost lead to fist fights
http://www.westerndemocrat.com/2005/06/ranchers_cowboy.html
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 07:35 AM
I did not look into your situation much....but living where I do Im not sure I would want those things going over my land. I guess it would depend on if it were at reasonable times....do they (trucks) do damage to my road if so are they going to re-grade or something when done.....are my live stock in danger.....are the drivers being respectful of my land (staying of the road/not littering)......are the drivers hauling arse and kicking up dust/dirt tearing up the road more then needed???
Is the road county maintained??? if so he has to give access or lose the maintanice. If its a private road your out of luck I think.
Does he pull open range permits if so I would think the BLM could put pressure on him to open the road.
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 07:41 AM
Ok so he wants to stop the drilling??? If they have the mineral rights they can drill (I think). He can make it hard for them by not allowing them easy access but I dont think he can stop them.
Spider
11-01-2005, 07:45 AM
I did not look into your situation much....but living where I do Im not sure I would want those things going over my land. I guess it would depend on if it were at reasonable times....do they (trucks) do damage to my road if so are they going to re-grade or something when done.....are my live stock in danger.....are the drivers being respectful of my land (staying of the road/not littering)......are the drivers hauling arse and kicking up dust/dirt tearing up the road more then needed???
Bro there are time I am grossing 96 thousand to well over a hundred thousand pounds , you bet I am doing damage , not that I want to but with that kind of weight you cant help it , I do stay on the road as much as possible , sometimes you cant help it though ......... I dont litter , but I have seen litter , dont know if it is other drivers or oil rig hands though .......
Is the road county maintained??? if so he has to give access or lose the maintanice. If its a private road your out of luck I think.
not a county road , they are acsess roads ..... and we try to be reasonable about times we go in and come out , but we still get in the way ......
Does he pull open range permits if so I would think the BLM could put pressure on him to open the road.
This I dont know 90% of Wyoming is open Range though ......
Spider
11-01-2005, 07:47 AM
Ok so he wants to stop the drilling??? If they have the mineral rights they can drill (I think). He can make it hard for them by not allowing them easy access but I dont think he can stop them.
Thats what they are doing ......
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 07:50 AM
Bro there are time I am grossing 96 thousand to well over a hundred thousand pounds , you bet I am doing damage , not that I want to but with that kind of weight you cant help it , I do stay on the road as much as possible , sometimes you cant help it though ......... I dont litter , but I have seen litter , dont know if it is other drivers or oil rig hands though .......
not a county road , they are acsess roads ..... and we try to be reasonable about times we go in and come out , but we still get in the way ......
This I dont know 90% of Wyoming is open Range though ......
Maybe if the company stepped up and told him they plan on bringing in a grader when all is done (or once a year) and plan to leave the roads in better shape then when they started that would help??? I guess if he just does not want the drilling done he can be a pain if he wants. To be honest I would not be real happy about them tearing up my land and unless they made me offers to improve the land/roads when done I would be tempted to close off the road myself. Tough call from both sides I guess. Not knowing all the facts is kind of hard. What will the drilling do to his livestock water??? feed??? Contamination might be a huge factor for him.
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 07:53 AM
If I were him I would also check with the local treasurers office and make sure that company is paying its taxes on the "mineral rights" you would be surprised at how many dont. If they have not then he could check on paying them himself and putting a tax lien on the mineral rights. Prolly wont end up owning them himself but could make some $ while putting a finanacial "kidney shot" on the company.
Of course thats just mean and I would never do that myself ;D
Spider
11-01-2005, 07:54 AM
Maybe if the company stepped up and told him they plan on bringing in a grader when all is done (or once a year) and plan to leave the roads in better shape then when they started that would help??? I guess if he just does not want the drilling done he can be a pain if he wants. To be honest I would not be real happy about them tearing up my land and unless they made me offers to improve the land/roads when done I would be tempted to close off the road myself. Tough call from both sides I guess. Not knowing all the facts is kind of hard. What will the drilling do to his livestock water??? feed??? Contamination might be a huge factor for him.
Depends on the Rig bro , Natural gas wells contaminate everything including the land , Oil they dig a pit for water , but the land is useless after they are done ...... Oil companies do a fairly good job of clean up , but they have to leave a pump and tanks @ the old site , once a rig is moved , the well is pumped then capped ..... so nothing goes back to the way it was ......... before the rig moved one
Spider
11-01-2005, 07:58 AM
If I were him I would also check with the local treasurers office and make sure that company is paying its taxes on the "mineral rights" you would be surprised at how many dont. If they have not then he could check on paying them himself and putting a tax lien on the mineral rights. Prolly wont end up owning them himself but could make some $ while putting a finanacial "kidney shot" on the company.
Of course thats just mean and I would never do that myself ;D
;D well I think the Ranchers will lose this fight ( pity ) they expect a 36% increase in new drilling in Wyoming alone ....... Between Rifle and Griag colo , things will change also ........ Utah from Vernal and Oray things wont be the same out there either ............ When Bush passed that Road law , that opened the door , dont think we can close it now .......
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 07:58 AM
Of course if its his road he could always just be nice and open it back up then its not his fault if a box or two of #2 penny nails fell off the back of his tractor ;D
Spider
11-01-2005, 08:00 AM
Of course if its his road he could always just be nice and open it back up then its not his fault if a box or two of #2 penny nails fell off the back of his tractor ;D
;D the Problem is Oil Companies can build a new road acrossed your Property ..... you have no say , not when it comes to the minerals , the Oil companies pay the Rancher a token payment ,when the oil compnaies dont have to , but the payment isnt enough ot restore the land
bendog
11-01-2005, 08:34 AM
;D the Problem is Oil Companies can build a new road acrossed your Property ..... you have no say , not when it comes to the minerals , the Oil companies pay the Rancher a token payment ,when the oil compnaies dont have to , but the payment isnt enough ot restore the land
http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0507/feature5/
read the whole article in print some time back. Pride's right, the problem is the Oil/Gas Co's don't pay enough to restore the land. Wyo's to the right, politically, of Mississippi. Cheney was their sole Rep for the 10 or so years I lived there, and he was halliburton's whore then. Not to diss anyone's politics, but that was the way it was. (I likeAlan Simpson btw) Cheney was bought lock stock and barrel (-: and had polo ponies outside Saratoga. The state is OWNED by the industry.
But, the state had no income tax when I was there. In Evanston they built a spanking new library, schools, park/indoor fitness facility when I was there. I went to law school for less than 1K tuition per semester AND I worked in the library at the same time. Indoor track/wt room/pool. Running tracks in the parks. Course I got laid off when oil went to something like 24bucks per gallon, and tuition was raised.
The ranchers really didn't make enough ranching to live, but with the mineral rights they could keep their lifestyle going.
Complex issue an dboth sides have good pts.
Complex issue an dboth sides have good pts.
Thanks for the most sane comment to come across the OM WRP in a looooong time.
Atlas
11-01-2005, 01:09 PM
I have read somewhere that a fully load Semi which is at about 80,000 lbs does the same amount of damage to a road as 400 cars. Don't know if it is true or not but it does make sense.
RaiderH8r
11-01-2005, 01:19 PM
State's rights when it's conevenient eh?
Farmers and ranchers knew they were only buying surface rights and paid accordingly. If they wanted mineral rights they could go ahead and pay for that too.
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 01:22 PM
State's rights when it's conevenient eh?
Farmers and ranchers knew they were only buying surface rights and paid accordingly. If they wanted mineral rights they could go ahead and pay for that too.
Thats not really true. Most mineral rights cross muliti land owners. Also mineral rights generally dont come with land when you buy it. Its usually not an option to just pick them up.
bendog
11-01-2005, 02:04 PM
Yeah, as I recall the Wyo situation, the BLM or fed govt sold the rights seperately, though some land owners somehow had both. But the oil and gas companies are paying taxes to the locals somehow. That was an issue when I was in Uinta County and Natrona County (Casper and Spider) were claiming some gas revenues. So, at the nut, what's happening is the ranchers are already benefitting from the gas companies exploration, but at the same time, their lands get 'altered,' with roads being pushed across and tractor trailers running loads, so they want more .... when, well, look at your natl gas bills.
RaiderH8r
11-01-2005, 02:23 PM
Thats not really true. Most mineral rights cross muliti land owners. Also mineral rights generally dont come with land when you buy it. Its usually not an option to just pick them up.
They can lease them from the gov. or they can pick them up despite the fact the mineral rights may extend into farmer Johnson's prairie. Point is they paid a sum for the surface rights, which they knew they were doing at the time. Nobody's springing a trap on them.
bendog
11-01-2005, 02:33 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0510/p01s02-usju.htm
I think saying the ranchers had a chance is prolly an .... not being totally accurate. some prolly never knew the BLM was selling. Others never foresaw the damage that the energy companies would do. It's hard to imagine that becasue someone has mineral rights, they could "dewater" your ranch and take away the water that makes the grass.
http://www.pbs.org/now/printable/transcript_powderr_print.html
But, like I said, halliburton and the gas producers have done a lot of good for the state.
Hotrod
11-01-2005, 03:06 PM
They can lease them from the gov. or they can pick them up despite the fact the mineral rights may extend into farmer Johnson's prairie. Point is they paid a sum for the surface rights, which they knew they were doing at the time. Nobody's springing a trap on them.
99.9% of mineral rights are flat out privatly owned and taxed. You cant just lease them you either own them or you dont. Many surface owners have tried to purchase the mineral rights and are rejected by the gas & oil companys which "own" those rights.
I agree nobody is "springing a trap on them"
bendog
11-02-2005, 09:03 AM
99.9% of mineral rights are flat out privatly owned and taxed. You cant just lease them you either own them or you dont. Many surface owners have tried to purchase the mineral rights and are rejected by the gas & oil companys which "own" those rights.
I agree nobody is "springing a trap on them"
I dunno about that. Dewatering to get at coal is definitely springing a trap. The windmills wouldn't work to water cattle after that. Access roads are something I agree should be anticipated by ranchers, and ultimately, their land should be ok.
Spider
11-12-2005, 08:44 PM
Just moved another Rig from Indiola UT. to Desolation flats (sandy Draw Road Baggs wy) '
been on that one since the 1 st ........
lightest load I had was 96 thousand pounds , so many bad thing happened this trip, I damn near lost track ;D ........ Home now ready for the freaking Raiders ;D
Spider
11-12-2005, 08:46 PM
I have read somewhere that a fully load Semi which is at about 80,000 lbs does the same amount of damage to a road as 400 cars. Don't know if it is true or not but it does make sense.
actualy the semi is worse , you cant compact 400 cars in the same space as a 18 wheeler , if you could I would imagine the damage would be the same
Garcia Bronco
11-14-2005, 10:15 AM
Well...now the state can sieze the land
alkemical
11-14-2005, 10:42 AM
aren't we all wards of the state?