Plummer 24-9

[i4jelway7]

nuff said... now everybody quit riding his ass

[Spider]

nuff said... now everybody quit riding his ass
24-9 I will take it , When Jake forst got here , I told Card fan that with a running Game Jake is a playoff QB . so far 2 years in a row he has lead us to playoffs , where the entire team blew it .......
I still maintain Jake is Jake , but he brings excitement back to Broncos football

[BMF Bronco]

nuff said... now everybody quit riding his ass
They had a helluva piece on him during the game.

[elsid13]

nuff said... now everybody quit riding his ass


And 0-2 in his playoff career in Denver. This isn't about winning in the regular season, it about winning superbowls. I'm not pulling a TACO on Plummer, but Shanahan has one goal for this team and it's holding trophy in Detriot. Plummer as one of the faces of the team and QB needs to make that happen, if not he failed.

[GreatBronco16]

And 0-2 in his playoff career in Denver. This isn't about winning in the regular season, it about winning superbowls. I'm not pulling a TACO on Plummer, but Shanahan has one goal for this team and it's holding trophy in Detriot.


Then I'm amazed that Elway stayed as long as he did. It is every teams goal to win the superbowl every year. That still doesn't take away that Plummer has been a winner in Denver. Put his win/losses in Denver against any amount of QBs in the past two years plus this season, and see where he ranks. I would bet it would be near the top.

[Borks147]

Jake just apologized for his comments in that gossip column, I tried to make a new thread but it wouldn't go through...

heres the link http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2194401

He never had to apologize but its great he takes responsibility for even the smallest actions....

[clarker]

And 0-2 in his playoff career in Denver. This isn't about winning in the regular season, it about winning superbowls. I'm not pulling a TACO on Plummer, but Shanahan has one goal for this team and it's holding trophy in Detriot. Plummer as one of the faces of the team and QB needs to make that happen, if not he failed.But you have to win in the regular season to get to the play offs, win or lose.

[elsid13]

Then I'm amazed that Elway stayed as long as he did. It is every teams goal to win the superbowl every year. That still doesn't take away that Plummer has been a winner in Denver. Put his win/losses in Denver against any amount of QBs in the past two years plus this season, and see where he ranks. I would bet it would be near the top.

If I was chef fan I would happy with making of the playoffs, but I'm not and expect this team to be the best to play the game, every week. And I don't care about what Plummer record/stats or number of times that he flicks off the crowd. I want playoff wins and superbowl victories. What do you want??? are you happy just making the playoff or do you want to make some noice when we're there???

[orinjkrush]

compared to Griese, he's the second coming.
I like his spunkiness...b*lls to the wall.

[ecnal15]

If winning Superbowls is everything, then does that make Marino a failure...what about Barry Sanders? I suppose Peyton Manning, TO, LT, and Mcnabb aren't very good either.

[Spider]

If winning Superbowls is everything, then does that make Marino a failure...what about Barry Sanders? I suppose Peyton Manning, TO, LT, and Mcnabb aren't very good either.
Pretty Much ........One thing those guys did .. take up too much payroll so the front office couldnt get much help in ....... there is more to the game then stats ........Elway took a huge pay cut to put the 97-98 Broncos together ........

[ecnal15]

Pretty Much ........One thing those guys did .. take up too much payroll so the front office couldnt get much help in ....... there is more to the game then stats ........Elway took a huge pay cut to put the 97-98 Broncos together ........

Just because they get paid a lot of money doesn't mean that they aren't good. You telling me that Marino wasn't good is just plain stupid. Just because they don't win the superbowl, or get paid a lot doesn't take away from their skill one bit. They were great no matter what.

[ludo21]

I like Jake and i think he does have the ability to help us win the SB. He is a top QB in the league and im glad hes on our team.

[Rock Chalk]

nuff said... now everybody quit riding his ass
I havent read any other posts in this thread but Im willing to bet that Taco has replied with...

"0-2 nuff said..."

[Spider]

Just because they get paid a lot of money doesn't mean that they aren't good. You telling me that Marino wasn't good is just plain stupid. Just because they don't win the superbowl, or get paid a lot doesn't take away from their skill one bit. They were great no matter what.
Plain Stupid ? Why do they play the games ? whats the goal ?
Postseason , Superbowl ........ It takes a team to get there , it takes a team to win ...... Think before you post ..........

[Spider]

Hey ecnal15 if personal records are that much to you ...Maybe Baseball is more your sport

[BroncoFanDoug]

Geez. Jake is clearly an above average QB and a winner. He is not Elway and will never be. He cannot carry a team to the SB (see Elway 1st 3 SBs).

If we put a good enough team around him, we will find out if he can go to and win a SB - so far we have not had that team. It is possible we have that this year (rcvrs still a big ? for me).

We don't KNOW if Plummer can do it. Does anyone think that the indy losses were all Jake's fault? Does anyone think the giants, skins, 9r losses were all Elway's fault?

I hope that this year we find out if Jake can step up to being a QB capable of winning a SB. And I do think that he can be this QB. But so far, the jury is out.

[listopencil]

And 0-2 in his playoff career in Denver. This isn't about winning in the regular season, it about winning superbowls. I'm not pulling a TACO on Plummer, but Shanahan has one goal for this team and it's holding trophy in Detriot. Plummer as one of the faces of the team and QB needs to make that happen, if not he failed.



Yeah, you're right. Elway only won two SuperBowls so I guess he sucked. What were we thinking all of these years? We should have traded him to DC when we had the chance.

[Rigs11]

First and 10 observations

1. Jake Plummer played brilliant football against the Patriots, guiding the red-hot, 5-1 Broncos to a 28-20 win. Plummer was razor sharp, going 17-for-24 for 262 yards, two touchdowns, and oozing with confidence. Plummer established the tempo early with a majestic bomb to Ashley Lelie for 55 yards, setting up a pretty touchdown throw to Rod Smith.

And as Tom Brady led an improbable comeback from down 28-3, getting it to a one-score game without Corey Dillon is just flat out unbelievable, give the Denver defense praise for making some key plays. The unit forced an intentional grounding with pressure, and Al Wilson drilled Deion Branch on the next play to negate a reception. It was a fantastic win for the Broncos.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/4998848

[bloodsunday]

This all boils down to perspective.... Those of you that want a "game manager" or a guy that is good enough with the team around him, Jake is your guy. He is not a bad QB. For the most part he is pretty average, but he suits this system well. His big downfalls are his mistakes and his poor accuracy. (And he apparently can't throw a wet, cold ball either).

I take the other perspective and this that this team would be a lock to make the Playoffs and almost definitely a favorite to win the Super Bowl with a better QB and everything else being held constant. While I know its not this simple... ask your self: "how good is this very same Broncos team with Tom Brady?". This team is riding high right now, but if Jake goes into one of his 9 INT swoons, then all of sudden we'll be crashing back to reality.

Make no mistake, his record is not a reflection of Jake's talent or ability. It's a reflection of having a good team (offense, defense, and special teams) around him and a coaching staff that is working their collective butts off to get the most out of "good Jake". We could win games with a lot of different QBs they way we are asking Jake to play right now.

So is Jake good enough to get it done (at least in the regular season)? Yeah. Does that mean that we should stop looking for an upgrade at the position? No.

[Spider]

The point is when Jake was in AZ he was no game manager , he was wild and a gunslinger , Now he is showing he can manage a game ....After all that is what we want , a guy that can air it out if need be , but also understands how to put a drive together ..... I think a few people have short term memories .......

[bloodsunday]

The point is when Jake was in AZ he was no game manager , he was wild and a gunslinger , Now he is showing he can manage a game ....After all that is what we want , a guy that can air it out if need be , but also understands how to put a drive together ..... I think a few people have short term memories .......
Exactly! But where is the "happy medium"? We didn't pay for a "game manager". We need Jake to both make plays AND eliminate mistakes. This idea that he just needs to not make mistakes and let the running game and defense win games is ludicrous. Jake is not paid accordingly and sooner or later he'll be called upon to win a game with his arm.

We'll see if Jake is up to the task when that day comes.

[Spider]

Exactly! But where is the "happy medium"? We didn't pay for a "game manager". We need Jake to both make plays AND eliminate mistakes. This idea that he just needs to not make mistakes and let the running game and defense win games is ludicrous. Jake is not paid accordingly and sooner or later he'll be called upon to win a game with his arm.

We'll see if Jake is up to the task when that day comes.
Seems to me Jake has been showing the happy medium .... since Shanny moved in the Broncos have been a run first team , build everything off the run ,but when somthing has opened up deep Jake has taken shots , if anything Jake needs to work on his deep passing down the sideline .........

[Kaylore]

I'm getting tired of this crap.

"Well the real question is can Jake win the game by himself?"

Knocking Jake for being a game manager is pretty stupid by itself given that most coaches around the league are having a hard time getting their QB's to do just that - but suggesting that if he can't carry the offense on his back by himself if need be that he is overpaid is completely stupid. You want to see a game where Jake carried the offense? Go watch the San Diego game. He was the only guy making plays. There are maybe 3-4 quarterbacks in the league who can carry their team when their D isn't stopping the opponent and they have no run game and they are paid top dollar for that. The way Jake is playing, he is opperating exactly like we need him to.

You build your team around the run game or the pass game. It's almost impossible to do both in the age of FA and still maintain an elite defense. Ours is built around the run and the pass game compliments that. That means our playmakers are going to be on the ground and that opens things up for the pass. To want things both ways in unrealistic and exactly the type of Elway/TD hangover that makes Denver fans spoiled.

[ZachKC]

Thats an impressive record no doubt but....

Lets be honest it means just about as much as the impressive 13-3 record the Chiefs posted a few years back.

Nothing.

If you don't make something of those big important games it doesn't mean ****. Its just message board fodder.

[bloodsunday]

I'm getting tired of this crap.

"Well the real question is can Jake win the game by himself?"

Knocking Jake for being a game manager is pretty stupid by itself given that most coaches around the league are having a hard time getting their QB's to do just that - but suggesting that if he can't carry the offense on his back by himself if need be that he is overpaid is completely stupid. You want to see a game where Jake carried the offense? Go watch the San Diego game. He was the only guy making plays. There are maybe 3-4 quarterbacks in the league who can carry their team when their D isn't stopping the opponent and they have no run game and they are paid top dollar for that. The way Jake is playing, he is opperating exactly like we need him to.
I am not knocking Jake for being a game manager, but why do you pay $40 million for it? Jake is paid to be a play maker and is expected to make plays like he made against NE every week and he simply isn't. Jake is not expected to win by himself, but there are occassions where a Super Bowl caliber QB needs to lift the team on his shoulders and Jake has not done that either. How many game winning drives has he had in Denver? How often do we win game when our run game is shut down (see Miami)? If a team has Super Bowl aspirations, the QB will most likely have to rise to the occassion at some point during the season.

Jake had a good first season in Denver and since then things have gone a bit south. He is constantly in the media for the wrong reasons -- flipping off the crowd, fighting with the NFL, throwing explatives at reporters... he is starting to wilt under the pressure like Griese did.

Very few teams in history have fielded a team like Baltimore in 2000 - 2001, so to aspire to that is crazy. That defense was the best (or at least one of) in the history of the NFL. We have a better chance at finding a franchise QB.

[errand]

And 0-2 in his playoff career in Denver. This isn't about winning in the regular season, it about winning superbowls. I'm not pulling a TACO on Plummer, but Shanahan has one goal for this team and it's holding trophy in Detriot. Plummer as one of the faces of the team and QB needs to make that happen, if not he failed.

Can you name any team that made the playoffs let alone won the SB without winning alot of regular season games? didn't think so.........

BTW, did it ever occur to you that had we won a couple more regular season games in either '03 or '04 perhaps Jake wouldn't be 0-2? Doesn't mean we'd have won it all...but playing a home playoff game increases the chances of winning a playoff game wouldn't you agree?

The bottom line is yes, the main objective of this and any other team (save for perhaps the Cardinals) is to win the NFL title....however certain things must happen before that dream can be realized.

You got win enough regular season games to qualify for the playoffs....the more you win in the regular season the easier your road to the SB is, as the team who wins the most games during the regular season gets to play all their playoff games @ home.....

To say you don't care about the regular season W-L record is ridiculous.....

[errand]

Then I'm amazed that Elway stayed as long as he did. It is every teams goal to win the superbowl every year. That still doesn't take away that Plummer has been a winner in Denver. Put his win/losses in Denver against any amount of QBs in the past two years plus this season, and see where he ranks. I would bet it would be near the top.

Since Jake has been our QB, he's got the NFL's 4th best winning %, behind Manning, McNabb, and Brady....

Jake is also one of only 5 Bronco QB's in the history of the franchise that can claim he's won more games than he lost (Morton, Elway, Brister, Frerotte, Plummer)

[errand]

Geez. Jake is clearly an above average QB and a winner. He is not Elway and will never be. He cannot carry a team to the SB (see Elway 1st 3 SBs).


We don't KNOW if Plummer can do it. Does anyone think that the indy losses were all Jake's fault? Does anyone think the giants, skins, 9r losses were all Elway's fault?



We always hear how "Elway carried the Broncos to 3 SB's"....and yet amazingly I recall Mark Jackson making a pretty damn good catch on 3rd and 18 vs the Browns in '86....not to mention he snared that fastball in his gut for the game tying TD...and didn't Clarence Kay or was it Steve Watson that made a finger tip grab that put the Broncos in position to kick the game winning FG?

What about Sammy Winder taking a dump pass and scooting 25 yards for the final Bronco TD vs Cleveland in '87...and was it Elway or Castille that stripped Earnest Byner (who had clear sailing to the end zone for the tying TD) of the ball, and recovered the subsequent fumble to preserve a thrilling 38-33 victory that propelled the Broncos into SB XXII?

You guys act like John was the only guy who ever made a play in the playoffs or during his early career. The Broncos of the 80's weren't just John Elway and the human scrap heap....there were guys who made plays, and who rose to the occasion to deliver in the regular season, and the playoffs as well.

[maven]

I hope Jake keeps it up so Denver can use their #1's on other positions.

[Beantown Bronco]

You wouldn't believe half the stuff the local Boston writers were printing about Jake before the game this weekend. It was if they were ignoring the progress he's made here and were blaming him for everything bad that happened in Arizona. The pre-game cockiness in the media here was unreal, with the majority of them unable to comprehend a scenario where the Pats didn't force him to throw at least 2-3 picks.

I wish we could go back in time and put Brady, McNabb and Manning on those Arizona teams instead of Jake. I have a hard time believing they could do a hell of a lot better.

[Odysseus]

I am not knocking Jake for being a game manager, but why do you pay $40 million for it? Jake is paid to be a play maker and is expected to make plays like he made against NE every week and he simply isn't. Jake is not expected to win by himself, but there are occassions where a Super Bowl caliber QB needs to lift the team on his shoulders and Jake has not done that either. How many game winning drives has he had in Denver? How often do we win game when our run game is shut down (see Miami)? If a team has Super Bowl aspirations, the QB will most likely have to rise to the occassion at some point during the season.

You find a starting QB who will do what Jake has done for $20 Million then you go and sign him yourself. Jake isn't paid that much higher than other starting quarterbacks in the league.

If Super Bowl QB's were a dime a dozen we would not have to play the Super Bowl. They would just hand out merit badges.

[The Big E]

I'd like to see how Jake's career would've gone had he started his career here, sitting on the bench and learning until Elway retired. Instead he was thrown into the fire with the crappiest organization in the league, and while it was good to get the playing time, I don't think they did much to help him develop. He was a question mark coming out of college, and needed an organization to groom him. He wasn't a top 5 in the draft kind of player, and even though I was a huge fan of his at ASU, I really didn't think he'd last in the NFL. Still, he's my favorite player because of his fire and style of play, and I do believe that he can get this team to the Super Bowl.

[orange 4 life]

And 0-2 in his playoff career in Denver. This isn't about winning in the regular season, it about winning superbowls. I'm not pulling a TACO on Plummer, but Shanahan has one goal for this team and it's holding trophy in Detriot. Plummer as one of the faces of the team and QB needs to make that happen, if not he failed.

....and elways first three superbowls were a complete nightmare.

why?

because his defenses (and offense for that matter) completely collapsed around him.
for Gods sake man.
the defense gave up 35 points in the first HALF last year. that aint plummers fault.
give me a break pal.

lets see what happens when plummer has a playoff game at mile high and with a defense that actually shows up.

[Popps]

I am not knocking Jake for being a game manager, but why do you pay $40 million for it?

You pay a guy who can win. Don't fall into the Taco John school of thinking... that a QB is only elite if he's got big stats and flashy TV commercials. Remember how he told us Tom Brady was average for years? (I think he finally gave that one up last year.) Plummer does an awful lot you're not giving him credit for. He doesn't just sit back there and hand the ball off. He's making good throws, running the boot, picking up 2-3 first downs a game with his legs, taking care of the ball... and hasn't thrown an INT in three games. What the **** do you want? Mike Vick running around getting hurt every game?

I've been saying since the beginning of the pre-season that Jake is playing differently this season. He's NOT going to take the chances he has in the past. He's been instructed not to, and he's doing quite well. The guy wins, plain and simple. It's amazing to me that some fans hold winning in such low regard. The guy's 24-9 as a starter on a team that's had average talent over the last few years... and all I hear about is how he threw a left-handed pass in one game (that we won) early last season. Get over it. Try to appreciate a winning QB while we have one.

[Popps]

....and elways first three superbowls were a complete nightmare.

why?

because his defenses (and offense for that matter) completely collapsed around him.
for Gods sake man.
the defense gave up 35 points in the first HALF last year. that aint plummers fault.

We took an early lead in a couple of those nightmare Superbowls, too.... the very thing that the goofs around here say would have prevented our blowout loss the past couple of playoff games. Yet, the opposing teams went on to rout us. Gosh, I wonder why that was?

[orange 4 life]

I wish we could go back in time and put Brady, McNabb and Manning on those Arizona teams instead of Jake. I have a hard time believing they could do a hell of a lot better.

how refreshing!!

someone actually taking into consideration the surrounding talent and coaching.
its the reason elway is LIGHT YEARS ahead of montana as a qb, and the reason plummer is an entirely different player here in denver.
the record and stats speak for themselves.
frankly, im not much of a stat guy (those 20 int's last year are very deceptive), but even WITH the 20 int's last year (11 tipped balls and 7 in two games where we trailed more than 2 scores) he has a good td to int ratio, a solid completion percentage and yards per throw, and a clearly improved winning percentage over his predecessors (post elway) or the guys who came in when he was hurt or rested (1-4 in those games).

mcnabb, culpepper , manning.
three very good players, and three players that wouldve fell on their faces in arizona.
brady mightve gotten killed.

[orange 4 life]

We took an early lead in a couple of those nightmare Superbowls, too.... the very thing that the goofs around here say would have prevented our blowout loss the past couple of playoff games. Yet, the opposing teams went on to rout us. Gosh, I wonder why that was?

well said as always my friend.
i'd rep that post over and over if i could.

[BroncoFanDoug]

how refreshing!!

someone actually taking into consideration the surrounding talent and coaching.
its the reason elway is LIGHT YEARS ahead of montana as a qb, and the reason plummer is an entirely different player here in denver.
the record and stats speak for themselves.
frankly, im not much of a stat guy (those 20 int's last year are very deceptive), but even WITH the 20 int's last year (11 tipped balls and 7 in two games where we trailed more than 2 scores) he has a good td to int ratio, a solid completion percentage and yards per throw, and a clearly improved winning percentage over his predecessors (post elway) or the guys who came in when he was hurt or rested (1-4 in those games).

mcnabb, culpepper , manning.
three very good players, and three players that wouldve fell on their faces in arizona.
brady mightve gotten killed.

Heck, Manning is a perfect example of a great QB on a lousy team never going anywhere.

Archie that is! ROFL!