Whitlock's 10 NFL truths, including a shocking revelation about Brian Griese!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

By Jason Whitlock
Special to Page 2

I saw more from the Cincinnati Bengals that I liked last Sunday night than I disliked.

Carson Palmer is a big-time quarterback. He made several throws under pressure against the Jaguars that were spectacular. Cincy's running game is legit, too.

Cincinnati's defense has a few holes. The secondary is mediocre at best; the front four, besides potential star Justin Smith, is below average; and the Bengals' linebackers are just OK.

The Bengals will be decent whenever their offense gives them to a lead and allows Marvin Lewis to take some risks with his defense.

Bottom line: The Bengals were overhyped, but they're better than I originally thought.

Sorry to disappoint you if you thought I was going to gloat about picking the Bengals to lose at Jacksonville. As the foremost authority on all things NFL, I'm embarrassed that the editors of this column screwed up and subtracted a point from each team on my prediction.

Here are 10 more NFL truths:

10. In Tampa's disgusting loss to the New York Jets, Brian Griese reminded me why I predicted he'd be a flop as a starting quarterback for the Denver Broncos.

Griese's heart pumps Kool-Aid.

The outcome was determined in the game's first 10 minutes, when the Jets attacked Griese with a relentless pass rush, sacking him three times. Thanks to a fumbled punt, the Buccaneers led 3-0 after one quarter. But Tampa's offense never had a chance after Griese absorbed an early beating.

Griese never challenged the Jets downfield. He was too concerned about a potential pass rush to look for receivers more than 5 to 7 yards beyond the line of scrimmage. He was never sacked again the rest of the day, but the early message to Griese allowed Herm Edwards and his defensive staff to sit back in short zones and wait for Griese to make mistakes.

Griese's favorite target was cornerback Ty Law, who should've had three picks. He settled for one.

If you ever wonder what makes Tom Brady the NFL's best quarterback, watch Brian Griese play and then watch Brady. Football is a contact sport. Griese is afraid of contact.

9. You don't have to be Michael Vick to run the ball effectively from the quarterback position.

Do NFL quarterbacks realize a 3- or 4-yard run and hook slide is better than an incompletion?

Mark Brunell absolutely threw away a nice Redskins rally because he refused to jog in a two-point conversion. Rather than waltz around left end for two points and the tie against Denver, Brunell threw a hopeless, harmless fling into the end zone at the end of Washington's two-point loss to the Broncos.

Unless there are 15 unimpeded yards in front of them, it takes a court order to get a lot of NFL QBs to run 4 yards upfield and fall down.

8. Brian Billick has not "lost control" of the Baltimore Ravens.

Billick and his inept offense have frustrated Ravens defenders to the point that they're cracking under the pressure of having to carry Billick's quarterback-handicapped offense.

That's not an excuse for the 21 penalties and two ejections the Ravens endured during their embarrassing loss to the Lions. It's just a statement of fact. Ray Lewis and the rest of Baltimore's defenders have been under enormous pressure for years. I feel sort of sorry for them.

7. Al Michaels and John Madden had too much class to say it Monday night, but I don't: Jeff Triplette and his officiating crew tried to sabotage a terrific football game.

It took every bit of restraint Madden could muster to avoid shredding Triplette during the telecast of Pittsburgh's 24-22 victory over the San Diego Chargers. The game featured 20 penalties, including a flag on damn near every special-teams return.

At one point, Madden said that all the yellow flags were not a reflection on Marty Schottenheimer and Bill Cowher and their two teams. Madden's point was that two talented, well-coached teams shouldn't be getting flagged on every fourth play.

Triplette's crew started on the opening kickoff and never stopped. Triplette, the man who tagged Orlando Brown in the eye with a flag, is a clown. However, the league needs to examine the way it officiates kickoffs and punts. There are way too many penalties on special teams, and the flags slow the game and undermine excitement.

6. It appears the New Orleans Saints are making the most of the built-in excuse the media handed them after Hurricane Katrina.

That's right. I blame the media for New Orleans' 52-3 loss to the Green Bay Packers. The Saints have been told by the media that they can lie down and play like dogs this year because of Katrina.

Rather than feel sorry for the Saints, I feel they're blessed. They have jobs. High-paying jobs. They can rebuild their lives. They have a well-financed, highly influential organization helping them get through Katrina. They can and should play better football than they did Sunday.

But they won't because they've been told they can stink this year.

5. Now that Jerry Rice has retired, there's an obvious question no one is asking: Are NFL receivers the most despicable, classless athletes in all of sports?

Of course you have Terrell Owens and Randy Moss leading the way. There's no reason to elaborate on those two. Let's don't forget Rae Carruth, who is currently doing a bid for killing his baby's mama.

Then there's T.O. wannabe Chad Johnson, who fails to realize that we're laughing at him, not with him. Johnson's T.O. impersonation is rather embarrassing. It's the equivalent of watching Ricki Lake try to become Oprah.

Last weekend Keyshawn Johnson reminded everyone why he was run out of New York and Tampa. Me-shawn ripped into Drew Bledsoe, who made the mistake of telling Me-shawn not to fumble the football.

After the game, Me-shawn had the audacity to say: "I'm not the type of person to point fingers at anybody, and I don't want anybody saying anything to me."

I guess Me-shawn forgets selling out Tony Dungy and Warren Sapp after a Tampa playoff loss to the Eagles.

4. Someone might want to tell CBS's Steve Tasker that John Elway, Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Joe Montana and Lawrence Taylor all played in the National Football League.

During the Lions-Ravens game, Tasker said that Ray Lewis had more impact on his organization than any one player has ever had on an organization.

Ray Lewis is a good football player. He's a Hall of Famer, an all-time great. But John Elway carried the Denver Broncos for nearly two decades, dragged them to five Super Bowls and enabled Denver to build a brand-new football stadium.

Call me when Ray Lewis wins another playoff game.

3. Speaking of phone calls, could someone tell Fred Smoot to call me at 816-234-4869 before his next party?

In case you missed it, Smoot Doggy Dogg allegedly threw a phat, Hugh Hefner-style party for the Vikings during their bye week. The police investigation hasn't quite wrapped up, but initial reports suggest that Smoot Doggy Dogg and 17 teammates rented two boats and lots of nursing students paying their way through school with couch dances.

Smoot Doggy Dogg's love boat reportedly set sail for a three-hour-and-30-minute tour, but docked after 40 minutes because of complaints from the shocked sea men and women operating the boats.

I guess that answers any questions about what young millionaire athletes do with their free time.

2. Gary Barnett and his Colorado Buffaloes are capable of upsetting Texas.

Barnett might be the best coach in the Big 12. What he accomplished at Colorado last year, leading the Buffs to the Big 12 title game, after suffering through an investigation and suspension, was more impressive than leading Northwestern to the Rose Bowl.

Texas is also capable of sleepwalking through this game. CU-UT has upset written all over it.

1. If Indy's defense is for real -- and I'm beginning to reluctantly think it is -- then you'd have to credit Colts general manager Bill Polian with constructing a perfect team and cementing a reputation as the best GM in sports.

Polian built the Super Bowl Buffalo Bills. He then went to Carolina and helped the Panthers reach the NFC Championship Game in their second year of existence. Now it appears Polian might be ready to out-do himself, constructing a team without weakness in the salary-cap era.

Indy obviously has a marvelous offense. The Colts also have solid special teams with kicker Mike Vanderjagt and punter Hunter Smith. If their defense is legit, then we're talking about an all-time great team. Maybe the best team of the salary-cap era.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

http://www.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1013/photo/a_griese_275.jpg

[clean]

The Brian Griese comments are not shocking or a revelation.

[JLine27]

Being that I'm from NJ I actually watched the Tampa v. NYJ game with a bunch of Jets fans. I watched as they squirmed when Tampa had the ball late.
I was amused that they actually thought Griese was going to lead the Bucs down the field to a victory. They don't know the real Brian Griese...

[bronco militia]

ding ,ding, ding, rack him!


Fatlock is da man!

[Odysseus]

:nono: http://www.espn.go.com/media/pg2/2005/1013/photo/a_griese_275.jpg

Somebody hook me up with this as an avatar!

Heart pumps koolaide! Can't take a punch! :nono:

Jake has heart. I keep forgetting how painful those days were.

[DomCasual]

If you ever wonder what makes Tom Brady the NFL's best quarterback, watch Brian Griese play and then watch Brady. Football is a contact sport. Griese is afraid of contact.[/B]
I don't know if I would really agree with this, although I am certainly not a Brian Griese apologist. The Monday Night Raider game where he separated his shoulder is still one of the gutsiest performance I have seen in football. I really thought we had something after that game. Who knew that it would turn out to be the apex of his Broncos career?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

2. Gary Barnett and his Colorado Buffaloes are capable of upsetting Texas.

Barnett might be the best coach in the Big 12. What he accomplished at Colorado last year, leading the Buffs to the Big 12 title game, after suffering through an investigation and suspension, was more impressive than leading Northwestern to the Rose Bowl.

Texas is also capable of sleepwalking through this game. CU-UT has upset written all over it.


Thanks for putting that in print Whitlock. CU's going to get rolled now. Asshole.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

:nono:

Somebody hook me up with this as an avatar!


;)

[Merlin]

They don't know the real Brian Griese...
Yeah, but that Griese also led Denver over the Raiders late in the game with a separated shoulder. I wonder what happened to him. Did the shoulder operation do that much damage, or did his psyche just crack after that?

I really thought he would be our man after that game :(

[Broncoman13]

Thanks for putting that in print Whitlock. CU's going to get rolled now. a-hole.


I like CU as much as the next guy... but there was never a question of whether they would get rolled or not. The only question is by how much!

BTW, any takers on a CU-UT wager.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yeah, but that Griese also led Denver over the Raiders late in the game with a separated shoulder. I wonder what happened to him. Did the shoulder operation do that much damage, or did his psyche just crack after that?

I really thought he would be our man after that game :(

Adrenaline.

Was that the year Griese had a left tackle or a backup center masquerading as a left tackle?

[Rock Chalk]

The Brian Griese comments are not shocking or a revelation.
There are at least three people on this planet they will be shocking too.

[Rohirrim]

Thanks for putting that in print Whitlock. CU's going to get rolled now. a-hole.

Yeah, no ****. The dumbass. That was my upset of the week.

[Rock Chalk]

CU was getting rolled anyway.

I dont watch much college football, but I can tell you that Texas is going to pouond CU into the ground.

[Odysseus]

I really thought he would be our man after that game :(

I thought Griese was going to be o.k. after that too. I really was pulling for this guy and then the Miami loss at home showed me this whole team had collectively dropped pants and were heartless. Griese is what he is and I wish him the best in Tampa Bay. He'll bounce back but while he was here he was like a tormentor to me.

This is more to piss off the guys bagging on Plummer.

I'll probably drop any avatar after this game.

[Rohirrim]

CU was getting rolled anyway.

I dont watch much college football, but I can tell you that Texas is going to pouond CU into the ground.

If you don't watch much college ball, then you must be basing that opinion on the media kool-aid... or is it that Texas bias? ;D

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=12867&stc=1

That's classic Griese, altho usually he's a "duck and cover" turtle (ala the famous film I had to repeatedly watch as a youngin' to get under my desk and kiss my ass goodbye...) under pressure. No QB looks pretty getting sacked, but Griese has made it an artform rivaling even TrInt.

DUCK AND COVER BRIAN!

Even Taco would have to admit that's a pretty funny picture. Looks like that lineman is trying to tear off his unit.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

No QB looks pretty getting sacked, but Griese has made it an artform rivaling even TrInt.


Ah screw you.

[Circle Orange]

I definitely agree on the Brunell two point conversion. Hell, he could have run that in. I was yelling this at the screen. Three different times he held the ball too long and waited too late to decide whether or not to run. I was halfway happy, at least. Conflict of interest is STILL hell.

[watermock]

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2284&dateline=1127872768

"Bawk...Bawk...Our Defense rules...we have playmakers...Bawk..."

[Hogan11]

Pretty good.....he really nailed #5.

[-Slap-]

One of the better efforts by Fatlock.

6. It appears the New Orleans Saints are making the most of the built-in excuse the media handed them after Hurricane Katrina.

That's right. I blame the media for New Orleans' 52-3 loss to the Green Bay Packers. The Saints have been told by the media that they can lie down and play like dogs this year because of Katrina.

Rather than feel sorry for the Saints, I feel they're blessed. They have jobs. High-paying jobs. They can rebuild their lives. They have a well-financed, highly influential organization helping them get through Katrina. They can and should play better football than they did Sunday.

But they won't because they've been told they can stink this year.

Most people don't want to come out and say this, but its true. I think Jim Haslett heartily embraced the hard luck label early on (to buy himself another year) and the rest of the team has followed suit. Vegas might start taking their games off the board late in the season if things continue at this rate.

4. Someone might want to tell CBS's Steve Tasker that John Elway, Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Joe Montana and Lawrence Taylor all played in the National Football League.

During the Lions-Ravens game, Tasker said that Ray Lewis had more impact on his organization than any one player has ever had on an organization.

Ray Lewis is a good football player. He's a Hall of Famer, an all-time great. But John Elway carried the Denver Broncos for nearly two decades, dragged them to five Super Bowls and enabled Denver to build a brand-new football stadium.

Call me when Ray Lewis wins another playoff game.

Tributes to the greatest quarterback ever are always appreciated.

[Hogan11]

The refs are on a record pace with the flags as well......

[Garcia Bronco]

I impressed with fatlock...great read for once

[Dr. Broncenstein]

Griese always managed to go down squarely on his right shoulder when he was sacked.... --crunch--

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Can someone put this post on some sort of hot list of favorites whenever Plummer's play starts to suck and people start have thoughts of bringing back Greise.

[Odysseus]

Can someone put this post on some sort of hot list of favorites whenever Plummer's play starts to suck and people start have thoughts of bringing back Greise.

Just let me know where you want me to post my somewhat questionably gay avatar and I'll whip it out. Um. Wait! That didn't come out right. Wait!! I didn't mean to spring that on you. Wait!!!

[bloodsunday]

Whatch out... this will offend D.O.G. nation. They think Griese is better than Elway. Last time I dogged Griese, I got the hammered.

A side note... PFW said in their ESPN chat this week that Gruden has already considered replacing Griese with Simms. If the team goes on any kind of a losing streak, he could be looking for his 4th home if 5 years this offseason.

[bloodsunday]

4. Someone might want to tell CBS's Steve Tasker that John Elway, Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Joe Montana and Lawrence Taylor all played in the National Football League.

During the Lions-Ravens game, Tasker said that Ray Lewis had more impact on his organization than any one player has ever had on an organization.

Ray Lewis is a good football player. He's a Hall of Famer, an all-time great. But John Elway carried the Denver Broncos for nearly two decades, dragged them to five Super Bowls and enabled Denver to build a brand-new football stadium.

Call me when Ray Lewis wins another playoff game.
Boob, if you had said this I might have to rep you... but instead I will negative rep you.

People that didn't live in Denver will never understand how important Elway was to this franchise.

[bloodsunday]

Thanks for putting that in print Whitlock. CU's going to get rolled now. a-hole.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hercules Rockefeller again.

Yeah it doesn't help that people have been saying this all week. I heard on the radio this AM (from the Texas play-by-play guy) that Texas had a horrible practice on Tuesday and Mack Brown was pretty upset.

Nonetheless, its good to see the program and Barnett get some rep.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Boob, if you had said this I might have to rep you... but instead I will negative rep you.

People that didn't live in Denver will never understand how important Elway was to this franchise.

But, seriously.

John Elway carried the Denver Broncos for nearly two decades, dragged them to five Super Bowls and enabled Denver to build a brand-new football stadium!

Really!

[Nuggets4]

If you don't watch much college ball, then you must be basing that opinion on the media kool-aid... or is it that Texas bias? ;D

It's the Texas bias.

If CU's offense plays smartly, it'll be a close game. Our D can hang with anyone. We'll have a close loss this weekend, and then pull a 2001 and beat them in the Big XII championship game.

[Taco John]

So how many of Plummers interceptions from last year will this huge revelation take away?

Plummer has more heart, but we still have to limit our offense to his capabilities.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Plummer has more heart, but we still have to limit our offense to his capabilities.


Shhhh. . . . limiting the offense means that Shanny's happy with Jake and proves why he won't consider taking a QB early in the next draft.

[bloodsunday]

But, seriously.

John Elway carried the Denver Broncos for nearly two decades, dragged them to five Super Bowls and enabled Denver to build a brand-new football stadium!

Really!
Pre-Shanny, no QB did more with less in this league than Elway. Dan Reeves was a huge anchor (offensively) and put Elway in a difficult positions -- only allowing him to throw on 3rd down and in comebacks. His WR were average (at best) and our RBs were horrible: Winder, Wilhite, Bernstein, and Sewell (Humphries did show some promise, but had his career cut short).

Elway did carry this team to the first 3 of his 5 Super Bowls.

[Taco John]

Shhhh. . . . limiting the offense means that Shanny's happy with Jake and proves why he won't consider taking a QB early in the next draft.


:stupid: ROFL!


The hilarious thing is that I'm seeing the same arguments that I used in Griese's favor for Plummer. The very same arguments... many from the very same people who wouldn't accept those very same arguments the first time around! Ha!

And they call me a "Plummer Hater!" For pointing out that we can't turn the ball over a "league leading" amount of times, and especially not during the clutch stretch of the season! Ha!

I don't care. I'm not a Plummer hater. I'm a Broncos lover. And I hate watching end of season collapses. My criticism of Plummer has absolutely nothing to do with Griese... It has everything to do with him choking at the end of the season last year, and in both playoff games.

You know, it dawns on me that if he *HADN'T* have choked, I'd have nothing to back an argument with! Funny how that works.

[bloodsunday]

Shhhh. . . . limiting the offense means that Shanny's happy with Jake and proves why he won't consider taking a QB early in the next draft.
I hope this is sarcasm... ;D

I just don't understand why we paid $40 million for 175 pass yds/game, a 56 pct completion rate, 5.7 yds per pass, and a QB rating of 76. :tearhair:

[bloodsunday]

I don't care. I'm not a Plummer hater. I'm a Broncos lover.
Exactly. What's more, I hate watching a scaled back offense designed to keep him from being.... him.

[Mile High Shack]

Exactly. What's more, I hate watching a scaled back offense designed to keep him from being.... him.

considering our lack of play makers at the WR position (a 35 year old Rod is not what he use to be, God love him)

we have to scale it back

we are a defensive team first and foremost

get use to it

this isn't 1998

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Exactly. What's more, I hate watching a scaled back offense designed to keep him from being.... him.

That's what gets me when people say everything is fine and dandy on the Plummer-front. If everything was great, they wouldn't be limiting what he does on the field to not making a mistake and letting him try to occasionally make something happen with his feet.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

considering our lack of play makers at the WR position (a 35 year old Rod is not what he use to be, God love him)


Kind of hard to tell what's there past Rod when Jake doesn't hit WRs in stride that often. He's also only thrown one, maybe two, good deep balls to Ashley all season. Jake does have an effect, and we can debate how large of an effect forever, on the lack of playmakers.

Not giving Bell enough touches is on Shanny and Kubes though.

[Mile High Shack]

Kind of hard to tell what's there past Rod when Jake doesn't hit WRs in stride that often. He's also only thrown one, maybe two, good deep balls to Ashley all season. Jake does have an effect, and we can debate how large of an effect forever, on the lack of playmakers.

Not giving Bell enough touches is on Shanny and Kubes though.

playmaking to me doesn't me a damn streak route...I'd like to see more out of our receivers than just go routes

if you compare our WRs to those in the NFL, you'd take note, we are very average at this position

we are a defensive team first and foremost.....get use to it

[BroncoBuff]

By Jason Whitlock
Special to Page 2

Mark Brunell absolutely threw away a nice Redskins rally because he refused to jog in a two-point conversion. Rather than waltz around left end for two points and the tie against Denver, Brunell threw a hopeless, harmless fling into the end zone at the end of Washington's two-point loss to the Broncos.

What game was this guy watching? Brunell was incredibly accurate throwing that wet, heavy ball ALL DAY LONG! He - and he alone - made it a competitive game.

Without Ian Gold's left forearm . . . it wouldda been OT, bay-bee!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

playmaking to me doesn't me a damn streak route...I'd like to see more out of our receivers than just go routes


I'm not talking about just Go routes, and Jake has shown an inability to hit WRs in stride this season. Kind of hard to judge what they can, and can't do, when the QB doesn't put them in a position that allows them to make plays.

[bloodsunday]

considering our lack of play makers at the WR position (a 35 year old Rod is not what he use to be, God love him)
I don't buy that. Leile and Rod both caught 1,000 yds last season when Denve was willing to let Plummer open it up, but he threw 20 picks and they freaked out.

I don't think Terrell, Adams, Devoe, and Watts are slouches either. Our offense being scaled back has more to do with Plummer throwing it to the wrong team then our talent at WR.

[bloodsunday]

Kind of hard to tell what's there past Rod when Jake doesn't hit WRs in stride that often. He's also only thrown one, maybe two, good deep balls to Ashley all season. Jake does have an effect, and we can debate how large of an effect forever, on the lack of playmakers.

Not giving Bell enough touches is on Shanny and Kubes though.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hercules Rockefeller again.

[Mile High Shack]

I'm not talking about just Go routes, and Jake has shown an inability to hit WRs in stride this season. Kind of hard to judge what they can, and can't do, when the QB doesn't put them in a position that allows them to make plays.
show me a QB that hits a WR in stride EVERY time

I'll show you that you are playing a video game, not real life

[Mile High Shack]

I don't buy that. Leile and Rod both caught 1,000 yds last season when Denve was willing to let Plummer open it up, but he threw 20 picks and they freaked out.

I don't think Terrell, Adams, Devoe, and Watts are slouches either. Our offense being scaled back has more to do with Plummer throwing it to the wrong team then our talent at WR.

opinion and conjecture obviously

when basically all of our last few drafts have been primarily defensive...as well as our FA pick ups

I think the coaching staff realizes we need to win with D first.......and then special teams

then our offense not screw it up

[Hercules Rockefeller]

show me a QB that hits a WR in stride EVERY time

I'll show you that you are playing a video game, not real life

Did I say everytime? Most starting QBs can hit their WR in stride more often than they don't. When Jake does it, we all celebrate.

[Mile High Shack]

Did I say everytime? Most starting QBs can hit their WR in stride more often than they don't. When Jake does it, we all celebrate.
Jake isn't as bad as you are making him out to be

he was told this year, rather than force it, throw it away and let us punt

[Taco John]

show me a QB that hits a WR in stride EVERY time



Can I show you some that can do it one in three times?

[Taco John]

playmaking to me doesn't me a damn streak route...I'd like to see more out of our receivers than just go routes

if you compare our WRs to those in the NFL, you'd take note, we are very average at this position

we are a defensive team first and foremost.....get use to it


Don't you think we all would like to see more out of our receivers than just go routes? Why do you think Shanahan and Kubiak are limiting the offense to just that? Honestly?

[Mile High Shack]

Don't you think we all would like to see more out of our receivers than just go routes? Why do you think Shanahan and Kubiak are limiting the offense to just that? Honestly?

Lelie can't go over the middle, I've seen him try and he gets scared and drops the ball

[Taco John]

opinion and conjecture obviously

when basically all of our last few drafts have been primarily defensive...as well as our FA pick ups

I think the coaching staff realizes we need to win with D first.......and then special teams

then our offense not screw it up



This is all I'm saying... But our offense manages to screw it up by going three and out five times in a row, and people want to blame the defense for it. You can't blame the defense for losses if the offense isn't capable of picking up *ANY* slack.

[Taco John]

Lelie can't go over the middle, I've seen him try and he gets scared and drops the ball



So? Rod can go over the middle. I've seen him several times, and he gets killed because he gets stretched out.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Jake isn't as bad as you are making him out to be

he was told this year, rather than force it, throw it away and let us punt

Yep, he's not. But you can't claim this team lacks playmakers at WR, when Plummer has not put them in a position to make plays. That's part of his job description, and he's not doing it.

[BroncoBuff]

Pre-Shanny, no QB did more with less in this league than Elway. Dan Reeves was a huge anchor (offensively) and put Elway in a difficult positions -- only allowing him to throw on 3rd down and in comebacks. His WR were average (at best) and our RBs were horrible: Winder, Wilhite, Bernstein, and Sewell (Humphries did show some promise, but had his career cut short).

Elway did carry this team to the first 3 of his 5 Super Bowls.
I agree with most of that . . .

BUT - the idea that Reeves didn't throw very often in the 80s was long ago discredited. Just look at Elways total attempts in 84, 85, 86, 87, 88 . . . ALL of Reeves' years . . . and compare them to other teams. The Broncos were always right at the very top. The tough fact is - Elway was a puzzlingly inaccurate passer at times - especially in the 80s. Sad but true. His comp % and TD-INT ratio both sucked. And his TD-to-pass attempt career ratio REALLY SUCKS! 300 TDs sounds like a lot . . . until you realize he threw more passes than any QB in history.

I am DEFINITELY NOT an Elway hater, but, many of his comebacks came after three quarters of stagnant passing performances. We forgive him because he was so freaking ENTERTAINING!

I think Reeves is/was an EXCELLENT coach. He proved it after Denver - in New York and Atlanta. He took the underdog Falcons to a Super Bowl, for Pete's sake, and only a 75-yard Emmitt Smith TD kept his Giants from the Super Bowl.

I HATE REEVES for trying to trade Elway to the Redskins in 1991 and for drafting Maddox to spite John . . . but I respect him as an EXCELLENT coach.

Is it possible all this widespread "he refused to pass the ball" fiction is based upon Reeves' CORRECT understanding that "establishing the run" is necessary? And, as they say, "the winners write the history books," and John was the winner in Denver - PLUS - when Shanny came over, there were those Super Bowls . . . remember? The Lombardies have the effect of cementing the fiction that Reeves was a bad coach - but a serious look-see proves it's just not true.

[RhymesayersDU]

I'm not a huge Whitlock fan, but the line about "Tell Smoot Doggy Dogg to invite me to his next party" is pure gold.

[bloodsunday]

then our offense not screw it up
And that means keep Jake from throwing 20 picks. That's right, Jake was the one screwing it up. He has plenty of talent at WR and TE to make this offense dynamic, but he is error prone.

[bloodsunday]

I'm not a huge Whitlock fan, but the line about "Tell Smoot Doggy Dogg to invite me to his next party" is pure gold.
I spit out my coffee when I read that.... had to call the cleaning crew to clean up my monitor.

[bloodsunday]

So? Rod can go over the middle. I've seen him several times, and he gets killed because he gets stretched out.
So does Adams. Besides, would you want to go over the middle if you knew the Ball was gonna be over your head or behind you with a safety or LB waiting to kick your teeth in? Rod being willing to go over the middle and catch a Jake pass is more of an idication at what a bad ass he is than an indictment on Lelie.

[Mile High Shack]

according to you guys

it's amazing we win any games at all with a scrub like Jake

[bloodsunday]

according to you guys

it's amazing we win any games at all with a scrub like Jake
What's amazing to me is that we give him that paycheck for what we ask him to do. Jake is an average QB, BUT he is mistake prone. That's the problem. He showed last year that despite his inaccuracy he can put up good stats. We just cannot win with a QB that throws 20 picks.

So we give him a $40 million dollar deal and ask him to be Trent Dilfer :kiddingme I don't get it.

[Taco John]

according to you guys

it's amazing we win any games at all with a scrub like Jake



Exactly. But miraculously, Shanahan and Kubiak pull it off.

[BMF Bronco]

I find it hilarious how any thread that has the mere mention of Brian Griese tends to turn in to an Anti-Jake thread!

[Mile High Shack]

Exactly. But miraculously, Shanahan and Kubiak pull it off.

so do you blame Shanny for signing him then?

or keeping him around

when it's so obvious he is the sole reason we haven't won multiple championships in the last few years?

Pats be damned

if it wasn't for Jake, we'd have won 3/4 superbowls

[Taco John]

so do you blame Shanny for signing him then?

or keeping him around

when it's so obvious he is the sole reason we haven't won multiple championships in the last few years?

Pats be damned

if it wasn't for Jake, we'd have won 3/4 superbowls


At this point, I just want a playoff win... That's my Superbowl. Anything past a playoff win is gravy. I believe that it's possible to pull of a Superbowl with Jake... But playcalling will have to be perfect, and so will the defense. And, of course, Jake will have to cooperate.

I don't blame Shanahan for signing him. I probably would have done the same given the talent available. What I wouldn't have done was hand the entire franchise to him, and leave us with no options behind him.

[Taco John]

I find it hilarious how any thread that has the mere mention of Brian Griese tends to turn in to an Anti-Jake thread!



Griese doesn't play for us anymore... Griese Mobility does.

[BurgundyNGold]

Indy obviously has a marvelous offense. The Colts also have solid special teams with kicker Mike Vanderjagt and punter Hunter Smith. If their defense is legit, then we're talking about an all-time great team. Maybe the best team of the salary-cap era.

What a ridiculous statement this is. To be #1, is even more ludicrous. I'm not a Pats fan, but haven't they won 3 of the last 5 Superbowls? Indy just can't seem to avoid choking like dying dogs somewhere in the AFC playoffs.

To paraphrase Mr. Whitock himself when taking Steve Tasker to task (no pun intended) about his Ray Lewis statement earlier in the article, "call me when Indy gets to the Superbowl, let alone wins one".

Polian built the Bills? Bills = 0 rings. Oh, and he helped Carolina into a title game? Carolina = 0 rings. Now he's in Indy? Indy = 0 rings. Hmmm. Sounds like a pattern to me and the title of "Best GM in all of pro sports" doesn't fit the bill.

[Taco John]

Make no mistake. Griese was a problem in this offense. When the chips were down, so was he. At the time, I thought that we could limit his mistakes in this offense by giving him better protection and better receivers while beefing up the defense... sound familiar?

Plummer definitely has more heart than Griese, of that there is little doubt. But as far as ability is concerned, they're in the same class... Only one is more mobile, while the other is more accurate.

[BMF Bronco]

Griese doesn't play for us anymore... Griese Mobility does.
Don't you mean the "I wont quit" mobility greise?

[fontaine]

according to you guys

it's amazing we win any games at all with a scrub like Jake

The next time you get to watch Plummer a few times, see how many sideline passes he completes. Try to find a pattern of the way he's passing the ball or whether he is spreading it out and hitting different areas of the field for different routes. Plummer can throw certain passes well, but his selection of passing attempts is restricted because he's so inaccurate on a lot of passes that require timing and hitting the WR in stride. It's not that Jake is a scrub. It's more to do with his limited abilities as a pocket passer. That's why we've had to limit the amount of throws he makes and restrict them to higher percentage passes to the RB/Rod.

There's no doubt we'll draft or try to sign a vet QB who will compete for the starter's job next year, but it's up to Jake this year, to not make mistakes and throw his passes better, because believe me, the staff is cutting out a lot of stuff he's not good at.

[Rohirrim]

The next time you get to watch Plummer a few times, see how many sideline passes he completes. Try to find a pattern of the way he's passing the ball or whether he is spreading it out and hitting different areas of the field for different routes. Plummer can throw certain passes well, but his selection of passing attempts is restricted because he's so inaccurate on a lot of passes that require timing and hitting the WR in stride. It's not that Jake is a scrub. It's more to do with his limited abilities as a pocket passer. That's why we've had to limit the amount of throws he makes and restrict them to higher percentage passes to the RB/Rod.

There's no doubt we'll draft or try to sign a vet QB who will compete for the starter's job next year, but it's up to Jake this year, to not make mistakes and throw his passes better, because believe me, the staff is cutting out a lot of stuff he's not good at.

That's it in a nutshell. This team has a great defense and excellent STs. Next year, they are in a superior position to make the necessary upgrades on offense. For this season, they have to cut out Jake's ability to blow games, while continuing to win on defense and the run. It's going to be tough going, and an intense coaching challenge. Play to your strengths and mitigate your weaknesses. It ain't glamorous, and it might not take us all the way, but you play the cards you've got.

[yavoon]

That's it in a nutshell. This team has a great defense and excellent STs. Next year, they are in a superior position to make the necessary upgrades on offense. For this season, they have to cut out Jake's ability to blow games, while continuing to win on defense and the run. It's going to be tough going, and an intense coaching challenge. Play to your strengths and mitigate your weaknesses. It ain't glamorous, and it might not take us all the way, but you play the cards you've got.

how will the offense improve? will they just constantly put talent around jake? how will that not end up in a kyle boller situation(there are 4 pro bowlers on the ravens offense).

[Rohirrim]

how will the offense improve? will they just constantly put talent around jake? how will that not end up in a kyle boller situation(there are 4 pro bowlers on the ravens offense).

I don't remember saying that getting a new QB is out of the question. To be blunt about it, IMO the Broncos need a QB who is smarter, and more accurate. I think the point of my post was that the Broncos have to make the best of what they've got this year. And that will take a lot of smart coaching.

[Darkdoc]

5. Now that Jerry Rice has retired, there's an obvious question no one is asking: Are NFL receivers the most despicable, classless athletes in all of sports?

I know it's been said, but ROD SMITH? Total class.

[BMF Bronco]

I don't remember saying that getting a new QB is out of the question. To be blunt about it, IMO the Broncos need a QB who is smarter, and more accurate. I think the point of my post was that the Broncos have to make the best of what they've got this year. And that will take a lot of smart coaching.
Who do you have in mind? ???

[Rohirrim]

Who do you have in mind? ???

Obviously, the top choice has to be Leinhart right now but I'm not sure the Broncos want to go that expensive. Who knows what will happen with the Brees/Rivers thing in SD? There's still a lot of college ball to be played. Hell, I'd spend a third round pick on Joel Klatt if he keeps throwing it the way he did last week. I'm definitely not sold on BVD, or is that BVP? It's too early to tell.

[Odysseus]

I don't remember saying that getting a new QB is out of the question. To be blunt about it, IMO the Broncos need a QB who is smarter, and more accurate. I think the point of my post was that the Broncos have to make the best of what they've got this year. And that will take a lot of smart coaching.

This has been said a dozen different ways on countless threads for over two years now. First of all THANKS for saying it again.

I cannot begin to describe how pissed off I am that this keeps coming up.

[Rohirrim]

This has been said a dozen different ways on countless threads for over two years now. First of all THANKS for saying it again.

I cannot begin to describe how pissed off I am that this keeps coming up.

Hey, I only said it because I was asked. ??? Personally, I want to save all this talk for March and concentrate on what it takes to win now, week after week.

[GonzoLays]

Most people don't want to come out and say this, but its true. I think Jim Haslett heartily embraced the hard luck label early on (to buy himself another year) and the rest of the team has followed suit. Vegas might start taking their games off the board late in the season if things continue at this rate.


I remember after the New York Giants game you could tell he was harping on the fact the game was not a home game and he seem baffled at what he was supposed to do about it. He had a thousand and one excuses about the game. He seemed to blame everyone else besides the way his team played. You could tell he had an exasperated look on his face when he talked. Once players see the coach blaming the loss on conditions outside of their control, it filters down to them and they in turn start to do the same thing.

Maybe this is the reason Haslet's team in the past could never make the playoffs or crumbled during the stretch run. The talent is there. The coaching and winning attitude isn't.

[BMF Bronco]

Obviously, the top choice has to be Leinhart right now but I'm not sure the Broncos want to go that expensive. Who knows what will happen with the Brees/Rivers thing in SD? There's still a lot of college ball to be played. Hell, I'd spend a third round pick on Joel Klatt if he keeps throwing it the way he did last week. I'm definitely not sold on BVD, or is that BVP? It's too early to tell.
There is no possible way we could get Leinert, by the looks of it, the Texans are going to have the top pick, and the way Carr is playing, it would behoove them to pick him up. We can't afford to have a rookie leading this team, no way we could go through a "rebuilding" time frame. Hell we're winning right now and look at all the bitching, imagine if we were 1-4?!

[Rohirrim]

There is no possible way we could get Leinert
:bs: Of course there is. Like I said, it would be expensive. Probably too expensive.

by the looks of it, the Texans are going to have the top pick, and the way Carr is playing, it would behoove them to pick him up. We can't afford to have a rookie leading this team, no way we could go through a "rebuilding" time frame.
Who said anything about a rookie leading this team or rebuilding? Not me. The offense needs a few more pieces, that's all IMO.

Hell we're winning right now and look at all the b****ing, imagine if we were 1-4?!

You're the one who asked. I was just agreeing with Fontaine's post about how the Broncos have to make the best of what they have, and are currently managing to do just that. AFAIC, this draft stuff can wait till March, for all the good it does anybody. ???

[Hercules Rockefeller]

We can't afford to have a rookie leading this team, no way we could go through a "rebuilding" time frame.

Exactly why would the rookie be leading the team? They wouldn't cut Jake loose right away, no QB they take would start next year unless Plummer got hurt.

[BMF Bronco]

:bs: Of course there is. Like I said, it would be expensive. Probably too expensive.


Who said anything about a rookie leading this team or rebuilding? Not me. The offense needs a few more pieces, that's all IMO.



You're the one who asked. I was just agreeing with Fontaine's post about how the Broncos have to make the best of what they have, and are currently managing to do just that. AFAIC, this draft stuff can wait till March, for all the good it does anybody. ???
I wasn't referring to you bitching, I was saying it as a generality.

[Ballhawk]

I really think that we are going to see a progressive Jake this year. I think Shanny has broken Jake all the way down to Dilfer and will now try and build him up slow and steady. by week 12 he will be performing more along the lines of a Brees. Conservative with a bit more playmaking than we are seeing now.

And as long as we have this D, there is no way a rookie will see the field at QB.

[Taco John]

I really think that we are going to see a progressive Jake this year. I think Shanny has broken Jake all the way down to Dilfer and will now try and build him up slow and steady. by week 12 he will be performing more along the lines of a Brees. Conservative with a bit more playmaking than we are seeing now.



This scenario is kind of what I'm holding out hope for... We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world's first Bionic quarterback.

[TomServo]

when jake first got here there were only two jakes. good jake and bad jake. last year, really bad jake showed up. i dont know what to call this fourth version. no soul jake? jake dilfer? one of these days-soon we are going to need good jake, i hope he's still in there somewhere.

[SoCalBronco]

There is no possible way we could get Leinert,

Thank God.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Just let me know where you want me to post my somewhat questionably gay avatar and I'll whip it out. Um. Wait! That didn't come out right. Wait!! I didn't mean to spring that on you. Wait!!!


What?

[Odysseus]

What?

You rang?

What makes Shanahan a genius is that he could take four guys who had jobs at Home Depot and build a defensive line. He takes another guy who probably drinks more than Brian Griese but doesn't trip over his dog and makes him a starting QB. He takes the smallest fat guys he can finds and makes them his OL. This team consistently in a position to get into the playoffs and our fans our pissed because we don't have a HOF QB, HOF TE, potential HOF RB, and marginal HOF WR on offense.

Our whole offense is based on teams trying to stop the running game.

Maybe Shanahan's new moniker should be the Mad Scientist.

ARISE...JAKE DILFER (lightning in the background)...IT'S...ALIVE!!!!)

[Sassy]

when jake first got here there were only two jakes. good jake and bad jake. last year, really bad jake showed up. i dont know what to call this fourth version. no soul jake? jake dilfer? one of these days-soon we are going to need good jake, i hope he's still in there somewhere.
I'm pretty sure "good" Jake showed up for the KC game ;D

[theodnixon]

"Of course you have Terrell Owens and Randy Moss leading the way. There's no reason to elaborate on those two. Let's don't forget Rae Carruth, who is currently doing a bid for killing his baby's mama"



Ahh yes thanks for reminding me to keep my future daughter from dating football players

[theodnixon]

You rang?

What makes Shanahan a genius is that he could take four guys who had jobs at Home Depot and build a defensive line. He takes another guy who probably drinks more than Brian Griese but doesn't trip over his dog and makes him a starting QB. He takes the smallest fat guys he can finds and makes them his OL. This team consistently in a position to get into the playoffs and our fans our pissed because we don't have a HOF QB, HOF TE, potential HOF RB, and marginal HOF WR on offense.

Our whole offense is based on teams trying to stop the running game.

Maybe Shanahan's new moniker should be the Mad Scientist.

ARISE...JAKE DILFER (lightning in the background)...IT'S...ALIVE!!!!)


Lets not forget shanny can take a house and put him in a goal line situation. House Rules!

[watermock]

Put the guns and crack pipe down Alec..nobody wants to hurt you...