The "I Blame Kubiak" Bandwagon starts here, HOP ON!

[Drek]

OK, I've come to this conclusion over the first 5 games. Kubiak isn't doing his job. Our passing game sucks and our running game struggled the first few games. Its not that Jake can't get it done because he does one week against KC's DBs, which isn't too horrible a group (Surtain is good), but then can't hit the broad side of a barn the next (see 10/25 against the foreskins 2nd string DBs). Lelie's numbers are pathetic, only Rod catches more than a couple passes a game, and Carswell leads the team in TD receptions.

Kubiak simply isn't adjusting. Five games in, no adjustments made to date. Shanny needs to kick his boy's ass. Coyer saw us get stomped in week one, saw it start to become a trend half way through the SD game, but he adjusted at the half and we've become a solid defense. He isn't adjusting quite as quickly as I'd like, but he's going into each week with a quality scheme to start with so we can get by with what he's providing. Kubiak though, I just don't understand. We find a weapon, use it for a game, then put it away and don't touch it after that. Case in point, hitting our RBs on short routes outside the tackles. It saved us in the SD game but has been almost non-existant since. Or using House as an elidgable OL in place of a TE in goal line situations. He got the job done against JAX, why not make him a staple in short yardage plays consistantly, in much the role we used to use Hape in, only bigger, stronger, a better blocker, and with better hands, making it a more consistant option.

I don't think Kubiak is making the best use of the talent he's provided with, and he's going to cost this team a win in the near future. Everyone will blame Jake or Ashley, Bell or Anderson, the OL, whomever, ultimately it will have been Kubiak who failed to take advatange of the weakness he sees when the game starts, or his inability to counter the opposing defense's moves. This really scares me for the NE game because Bellicheck is all about gametime adjustments and will quickly find a way to neutralize our offense if we don't counter his moves well.

Please Houston, hire our OC, we really don't want him anymore.

[24champ]

no im not going on the bandwagon sorry.

[Blart]

I'm pretty sure Shanahan is nearly as involved in the offense as Kubiak, and he is kind of a control freak in the first place. Maybe he's not giving Kubiak enough breathing room.

[Odysseus]

Target acquired. Request permission to fire.

[Mediator12]

More bandwagon threads?!?

AAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

NO MAS! :bash:

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

No one here knows the exact division of duties between Shanahan, Kubiak and the rest of the offensive (and defensive) coaches. You can't blame one without blaming the whole.

The Broncs are 4-1 and playing pretty well. Wish everyone would quit whining.

[Old Dude]

Kubiak needs to quit overthrowing his receivers.

He also needs to finish his end zone routes.

As a tight end, he's not very good.

When he's in the backfield, he needs to make better reads and blocks on blitz assignments.

He's got to quit dropping the ball.

He has managed to hold down his holding penalties and turnovers, though, so maybe there's hope.

[rbackfactory80]

Sorry we have played in back to back weeks great defenses. Earlier we played the Chargers who also have a pretty tough Defense. We played the Chiefs and lit them up. I think the offense will play well the next three weeks with the Patriots being the toughest D we will face.

[Tredici]

I'm with Old Dude.

The game plans don't suck.

The execution leaves something to be desired.

[Rascal]

I'm not on the bandwagon but I'm made the necessary arrangements to jump on.

See how the offense does the next 3 weeks before final judgement is made.

[OrangeShadow]

we're 4-1 hes doing fine. Defense wins championships.

[Circle Orange]

Don't worry, word out of NFL.com is that Kubiak is being considered for the Texan job since Capers may be on the way out.

SIGH...here we go again... :pigsfly:

[Hotrod]

1. Thats my adopted Bronco your belly aching about.
2. Were 4-1 and getting the job done
3. Shanny makes the final decission on each play that is run and when.
4. Your bandwagon is worse then the bring back Rice and cut Lelie wagon which was amazing to say the least.

Hotrod is starting his own bandwagon. It will be known as the FASB - "Fans against stupid bandwagons" Ha! all aboard

[Rohirrim]

Maybe after the Trojans knock the snot out of the Irish this week, Charlie will begin to realize that college ball isn't all it's cracked up to be? ;D

[Broncoman13]

Does this band wagon come with free beer and tickets to the games... if not I think I'll just sit this one out!

[watermock]

I started the lynch mob 3 years ago. YOU hopped on the DeathCart.

[bendog]

I skipped the gym and it's that little pencil neck with the bad back's fault.

[Broncoman13]

I started the lynch mob 3 years ago. YOU hopped on the DeathCart.


I knew you would have something to say about Nintendo Kubes!!! lol

[watermock]

I'm pretty sure Shanahan is nearly as involved in the offense as Kubiak, and he is kind of a control freak in the first place. Maybe he's not giving Kubiak enough breathing room.

I don't think so. Pubes has been under Shanahan's wing for a long, long time...dating back to the early Elway days...I think he was under Shanny in SF as well. If Mike is the Wit....Pubes is the Nit...you can see where this goes right?

[Needa Pass Rush]

No one here knows the exact division of duties between Shanahan, Kubiak and the rest of the offensive (and defensive) coaches. You can't blame one without blaming the whole.

The Broncs are 4-1 and playing pretty well. Wish everyone would quit whining.

4 and 1, pretty darned healthy and not turning the ball over (Still knocking on wood). For those of you with leaky intestines.... keep the faith! :ban:

[Needa Pass Rush]

I'm with Old Dude.

The game plans don't suck.

The execution leaves something to be desired.


Last week it boiled down to one QB that threw a great wet ball and one QB who didn't. I want to see a dry NE game! :gripe:

[yavoon]

I dont like either coordinator.

[RhymesayersDU]

1. Thats my adopted Bronco your belly aching about.
2. Were 4-1 and getting the job done
3. Shanny makes the final decission on each play that is run and when.
4. Your bandwagon is worse then the bring back Rice and cut Lelie wagon which was amazing to say the least.

Hotrod is starting his own bandwagon. It will be known as the FASB - "Fans against stupid bandwagons" Ha! all aboard
I call copyright infringement!

FASB - Financial Accounting Standards Board

Only because I'm an accounting major. :)

[errand]

Kubiak needs to quit overthrowing his receivers.

He also needs to finish his end zone routes.

As a tight end, he's not very good.

When he's in the backfield, he needs to make better reads and blocks on blitz assignments.

He's got to quit dropping the ball.

He has managed to hold down his holding penalties and turnovers, though, so maybe there's hope.

.....not to mention that freaking Coyer can't bull rush the top E's & T's in the NFL.

[Rock Chalk]

I knew you would have something to say about Nintendo Kubes!!! lol
Mock not two days ago tried to tell me he doesnt hate Kubiak after I called him out on it.

Can you believe that? 3 years of this **** and he tried to pull that **** on me like I was some newb.

[Taco John]

Hard to blame Kubiak when the execution is so bad. I have no problems with the job Kubiak is doing thus far this year.

[RhymesayersDU]

I'm good with Kubes right now, because he and Shanny finally got it through their thick skulls that running right up the midding on 3rd and 1 or at the goal line isn't going to work. I'm really digging those pitches to the outside, and the PA bootlegs.

[DrFate]

I'm with Old Dude.

The game plans don't suck.

The play calling seems kind of goofy, though. Run, run, try to fling the ball down field. The whole WCO is supposed to be short, sharp passes and a run game. The run game is working but I think we are taking too many shots downfield without the in-between passing game. Whatever happened to the script?

I'd like to see Plummer roll out and try some 10-15 yard passes. Right now I see runs and deep passes with no 'cream filling'.

[Taco John]

Jake's intermediate accuracy is a problem. It just is.

[Tombstone RJ]

Houston needs a new HC, and I nominate Kubiak. Its about damn time he steps up takes a real coaching job. He's been under Shanny's tuteledge for 10 years and he needs to move on down the road...

[DrFate]

Jake's intermediate accuracy is a problem. It just is.

I just don't see the plays being called, Taco. I think Plummer's strength is moving out of the pocket and throwing little dink and dunk passes on the run. I haven't seen that this year. Either it is a designed bootleg or a 5 step drop and a deep pass. Put him on the move and let him get 10-15 yards to Putzier and Rod and Lelie.

[RhymesayersDU]

Houston needs a new HC, and I nominate Kubiak. Its about damn time he steps up takes a real coaching job. He's been under Shanny's tuteledge for 10 years and he needs to move on down the road...
I second that nomination.

[Taco John]

I just don't see the plays being called...


Yeah... Why do you think that is? :sickortir


You think Shanahan and Kubiak are just forgetting about it?

[listopencil]

I'll see your bandwagon and raise you a blind homer.

[elsid13]

Since we don't know what plays are called it hard to determining if crew of the field or the folks upstairs causing this offense to sputter like a cheap Italian car. Right I leaning toward the players on the field, since we seen so different calls for last year.

PS The Tight Ends are still on my TICE list until they as group step up and prove something.

[Atlas]

Denver is 4-1 and Plummer hasn't thrown an INT in 3 games get a clue.
http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/4133c0b0z90434a79/d553/__sr_/408e.jpg?phRgcTDBaFdxY5DZ

Just to let everyone know. This is the Broncos. If Denver is going to win this is the team your going to see. Efficient on offense and solid in defense and speacial teams. That's it. All you guys that want Denver to score 30 points every week IT AIN'T going to happen.... get used to it.

It's going to be a long GOD DAMN season around here with every other person posting a " let's get rid of so and so thread."

You guys are amazing. Frigging 4-1 and all alone in first place and all they can do is b!itch. Everytime I log onto this site I feel my IQ go down 30 points.

I blame Drek for starting useless, ignorant threads.

[Kaylore]

It's funny that even though this last game was a win, the board is reacting to it like a loss.

[Rascal]

Yeap...pretty sad.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

The glass is half full clowns.

[Taco John]

It's funny that even though this last game was a win, the board is reacting to it like a loss.



I expected it. We're supposed to be able to beat teams like the Colts, not eek by against teams like the Redskins.

That said, I think only a moron would start "blaming" Kubiak at this juncture for anything. That's just ridiculous.

[baja]

So what do you think Shanahan is doing when he looks at his plastic covered play sheat covers his mouth with it and speaks into his mike, ordering a pizza?

[Bronx33]

Cubes is god! :woowoo:

[Broncos Rule]

Washington is not as good as NE, the Giants or Philly.

If we don't step up the O production, we could loose the next 3 straight. That's what the bitching is about.

But I'll take a gutsy win in the slop any day.

The skins game is exactly the kind of game we've a habit of blowing the last couple (or six) years.

It feels like we've turned a corner.

Got heart?

[listopencil]

So what do you think Shanahan is doing when he looks at his plastic covered play sheat covers his mouth with it and speaks into his mike, ordering a pizza?


He's hiding whether it's going to be run or pass because pass plays tend to take longer to speak.

[-Slap-]

Kubiak's terrible. All he did was take Jake Plummer from League laughing stock to semi competent NFL starter. Now he's simply trying to rein in Jake's more retarded impulses so that we don't piss away another season in a flurry of stupid turnovers.

[Kaylore]

The first thread I read on the Mane was a Kubiak hating thread. The first rep I got was from Old Dude for defending him.

[Odysseus]

The first thread I read on the Mane was a Kubiak hating thread. The first rep I got was from Old Dude for defending him.

What's rep?

[Kaylore]

What's rep?
http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=9093

[watermock]

Redo your avatar Khan, that's just wrong...put Ray Lewis on it.

[Kaylore]

Redo your avatar Khan, that's just wrong...put Ray Lewis on it.
You've no idea who the little squirt is, do you?

[OrangeShadow]

You've no idea who the little squirt is, do you?


kinda looks like a young tom brady

[DrFate]

Yeah... Why do you think that is? :sickortir


You think Shanahan and Kubiak are just forgetting about it?

Oh, I forgot. Your hatred for the QB precludes criticism of anyone else (or intelligent discussion from you). If we had washed up Jeff Garcia we'd be scoring 50 points a game.

Thanks for the reminder.

:bash:

[watermock]

No I don't...OK fine...shake him down for information....how in the hell would I know who that is...to me, it looks like Khan abusing a 5 year old. Stick a mind altering parasite in his ear while your taking the trouble to deal with him you monster.

I laugh at your arrogance...if you want me, your going to have to come and get me...

You enjoy throwing children around Khan?....come get the real prize...your a coward....

[Odysseus]

http://orangemane.com/BB/showthread.php?t=9093

Glad you cleared that up. I was wondering if rep was a good thing or not.

[Circle Orange]

Whining is so much fun.

And this bandwagon has no wheels...http://scosoft.com/s/Sport/32eccfc6.gif

[Rock Chalk]

Oh, I forgot. Your hatred for the QB precludes criticism of anyone else (or intelligent discussion from you). If we had washed up Jeff Garcia we'd be scoring 50 points a game.

Thanks for the reminder.

:bash:
Ooh, you're starting to sound like me now, well done!

[DB-Freak]

Oh, I forgot. Your hatred for the QB precludes criticism of anyone else (or intelligent discussion from you). If we had washed up Jeff Garcia we'd be scoring 50 points a game.

Thanks for the reminder.

:bash:
Plummer4MVP......I mean DrFate.

You should have kept your former username.

[Taco John]

Oh, I forgot. Your hatred for the QB precludes criticism of anyone else (or intelligent discussion from you). If we had washed up Jeff Garcia we'd be scoring 50 points a game.

Thanks for the reminder.

:bash:



That's your answer? A pot shot at me? I ask you a football question, and the best you can come up with is an insult?

You're totally starting to sound like Alec.

[Taco John]

I'll ask again. Do you think Shanahan and Kubiak are just forgetting about the intermediate routes?

[DB-Freak]

I'll ask again. Do you think Shanahan and Kubiak are just forgetting about the intermediate routes?
Yea DrFate knows better than Shanny and Kubiak after all.

[Taco John]

I don't see how anyone could lay any blame on Kubiak given the following stat... This is a breakdown of Jake's passer ratings in a grouping of ten... His first ten... his second ten... his third ten... and so on. This reveals why we're only seeing about 25 passes out of Plummer per game the last three outings...

ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 , 99.8 rating
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 , 82.9 rating
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 , 45.1 rating
ATTEMPTS 31+ , 51.4 rating.

The more Jake throws, the worse he gets over the course of a game.

That's not me "hating" on Jake. That's me taking a step back and looking at the cold hard facts.

There's no way Kubiak should be taking the blame for making the right adjustment.

[Odysseus]

I'll ask again. Do you think Shanahan and Kubiak are just forgetting about the intermediate routes?

1. You can't prove forgets so we'll scrath that one right away.
2. Neglected: Why? Lack of talent, confidence, or ability. Possible.
3. Patience: We leave the middle of the field alone right now. A hold card.
4. Focus: We need to run the ball better first. Keeping the team on track.

The trick is proving intent.

[Odysseus]

The more Jake throws, the worse he gets over the course of a game.

That's not me "hating" on Jake. That's me taking a step back and looking at the cold hard facts.

Those look like good numbers but perhaps Jake's numbers will improve if we work our way to 31 instead of expecting him to deliver 31.

The number I want to see improve is completions for attempts.

[Cito Pelon]

Everybody from Shanny on down has some room for improvement. I believe that's why from Shanny on down they're all saying they want to improve.

[Odysseus]

Everybody from Shanny on down has some room for improvement. I believe that's why from Shanny on down they're all saying they want to improve.

I have been watching Shanny in the off season ever since he first got here. This is the most I've seen this team focused in a long time. Our guys are playing good football. They have to keep their minds on the job ahead which includes working on maturing the foundation they are working from.

Shanny wants to walk into that stadium with one purpose and have his guys deliver him the finished product. It would be nice to see him trying not to smile at this next press conference.

[Rohirrim]

I don't have anything to back this up, but the Broncos do an awful lot of bootlegs and rollouts. Maybe that's what takes away the short middle routes?

[watermock]

This place really IS ruthless.

I swear, if half a dozen of us got on the coaching staff, the whole team would be dancing on hot tamales. Ha!

[watermock]

I don't have anything to back this up, but the Broncos do an awful lot of bootlegs and rollouts. Maybe that's what takes away the short middle routes?

Two reasons...Jake throws better on the run than in the pocket for some reason...might be because he's not very tall and gets to see an open field...still it takes half the field away...he's not an Elway that can chuck it across the field. Rolling out also disguises our obvious interior line deficiency. It's not that Nalen and Hamilton suck, but they can't hold up against a strong bull rush...don't even get me going on Coop...he's was the best option, but not an answer. Nalen is fading, he's been great, but he's about done. Hamilton is still a bit undersized to take on these Godzilla sized DT's at Def RT. They seem pretty happy on Hamilton at guard tho. They might still try to get Myers in there...I think we need some competion in what looks like a deep draft.

These guys could swat me like a fly on the window. If we draft a QB, we should make sure he's MOBILE or do I need to post another pic of SOB or TrInt being sacked?

[Cito Pelon]

I don't have anything to back this up, but the Broncos do an awful lot of bootlegs and rollouts. Maybe that's what takes away the short middle routes?

People forget the bootleg to the right was originally designed to aid the zone blocking scheme by drawing the DE and maybe an LB away from the blocking flow to the left, thereby drawing two D players away from the flow of the play. As it was originally designed, on the plays that the rollout by Elway was not a running play, the Bronc O was just looking for some positive yardage, maybe a short pass to a TE, or a short run then a slide by Elway. Since then the play has evolved a lot, and people have come to expect that a big play is going to happen off it consistently.

The bootleg to the left is a thing ShanaKubiak drew up for Plummer. IMO, it hasn't been a high percentage play. Neither has the bootleg right, IMO. And the bootleg right was never intended to be anything but a way to sucker a DE and a LB away from the flow of the play to the left. If it gets over-used, it limit's the effect.

ShanaKubiak have tried to make it into something superb, and overall what ShanaKubiak have been trying to do with the passing O I can see that it can be a gang-buster passing O that opens up the running game, but they have a little fine-tuning to do. If they ever get it going in a game to what they envision on paper, this is another O that is top-five in scoring. So we're at game six, and doing well without the passing game clicking the way it's supposed to on the chalkboard. I'm sure they're working on it.

[watermock]

Jake usually rolls to the right actually.

Absolutely horrible analysis as usual.

[elsid13]

I don't see how anyone could lay any blame on Kubiak given the following stat... This is a breakdown of Jake's passer ratings in a grouping of ten... His first ten... his second ten... his third ten... and so on. This reveals why we're only seeing about 25 passes out of Plummer per game the last three outings...

ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 , 99.8 rating
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 , 82.9 rating
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 , 45.1 rating
ATTEMPTS 31+ , 51.4 rating.

The more Jake throws, the worse he gets over the course of a game.

That's not me "hating" on Jake. That's me taking a step back and looking at the cold hard facts.

There's no way Kubiak should be taking the blame for making the right adjustment.

The other way to read the stats, is Denver is behind and has abandon the run, making it easier for other team to defend the pass by dropping more into zone coverage and allow the defense line to go all out at Plummer.

[watermock]

Originally Posted by Taco John
I don't see how anyone could lay any blame on Kubiak given the following stat... This is a breakdown of Jake's passer ratings in a grouping of ten... His first ten... his second ten... his third ten... and so on. This reveals why we're only seeing about 25 passes out of Plummer per game the last three outings...

ATTEMPTS 1-THROUGH-10 , 99.8 rating
ATTEMPTS 11-THROUGH-20 , 82.9 rating
ATTEMPTS 21-THROUGH-30 , 45.1 rating
ATTEMPTS 31+ , 51.4 rating.

The more Jake throws, the worse he gets over the course of a game.

That's not me "hating" on Jake. That's me taking a step back and looking at the cold hard facts.

All it shows is the inability of the coaching staff to adjust! WTF? This shows degredation of the playcalling as the game goes on...that's what it shows. Normally, it gets easier to throw as the secondary gets tired, but 5 One and Outs didn't give our D must time to rest.

Did Brunell seem to have trouble completing passes that last drive? Yes, he was helped, but take a looksie at Brunells late game stats.

You know that Plummer doesn't call the plays. Each play has options. When I had it explained, each time you line up, there is a read at the LOS to determine the best matchup, and thats the best read. The idea is you don't have to audible, the D will show you the soft spot, and you just go that direction. Now that is the Shanahan philosophy of not having to audible, that there is always a soft spot. Of course, it's Jakes responsibility to read the coverage for the proper reciever. If he sees Lelie one on one, he might let it fly. If they see press at the line, a slant to Rod.

Dunno.

[errand]

I don't have anything to back this up, but the Broncos do an awful lot of bootlegs and rollouts. Maybe that's what takes away the short middle routes?

You could be on to something there Ro....

Jake is not as effective from the pocket as he is on the move....we do alot of play action roll outs and bootlegs.....and because he's usually out on the edge it is a sin (unless your Elway) to try and throw the ball across your body into the middle of the field.....only one guy could do it and get away with it, and he's hung them up.

[ozomulsion]

The other way to read the stats, is Denver is behind and has abandon the run, making it easier for other team to defend the pass by dropping more into zone coverage and allow the defense line to go all out at Plummer.

LOL! We were behind in that Miami game. Actually 6-3 In the third quater. We've had the lead, pretty much, ever since that game.

[Taco John]

All it shows is the inability of the coaching staff to adjust! WTF? This shows degredation of the playcalling as the game goes on...that's what it shows. Normally, it gets easier to throw as the secondary gets tired, but 5 One and Outs didn't give our D must time to rest.

Did Brunell seem to have trouble completing passes that last drive? Yes, he was helped, but take a looksie at Brunells late game stats.

You know that Plummer doesn't call the plays. Each play has options. When I had it explained, each time you line up, there is a read at the LOS to determine the best matchup, and thats the best read. The idea is you don't have to audible, the D will show you the soft spot, and you just go that direction. Now that is the Shanahan philosophy of not having to audible, that there is always a soft spot. Of course, it's Jakes responsibility to read the coverage for the proper reciever. If he sees Lelie one on one, he might let it fly. If they see press at the line, a slant to Rod.

Dunno.



We're just going to have to agree to disagree. Jake is Jake. Shanahan and Kubiak have tuned this offense to play within his meager limits, and I think you've got to hand it to them for that. Just look at the ridiculous quarterback rating they're able to milk from the guy! Much higher than his career averages. Not only that, we're winning.

Now imagine if Jake managed to step up his game. We'd be unstoppable...


....or, they'd get a false sense of security about his abilities and we'd fall flat on our faces again.

Keep those training wheels on.

In Shanahan I Trust.

[Drek]

Wow, this thread really turned into an out of control trainwreck since I started it. I love it. :D

Anyhow, my brief two cents response to the current progress:
I blame Kubiak because he not only gets to work under an excellent offensive mind in Shanahan, but he can't even get the job done at that. Is Shanny really that heavily involved in the offense now? He might well be, but if he is that means Kubiak is basically stealing a paycheck, because we know for damn sure he isn't coming up with something new and exciting.

I want an OC who brings something new to the table and can devise a weekly gameplan without Shanahan. I'm sure Shanahan wants input regarding the gameplan offensively for each week, but he should be free to put more time into the team as a whole, not focusing on the offensive gameplan. We need someone who can look at what we've done well and find ways to better utilize those strengths while playing away from our weaknesses, and be capable of composing an NFL level gameplan withouth Shanny's input, who can then peruse and recommend as he sees fit.

I've already talked about my complaints, I think Ashley is wasted as a decoy, Jake trying to throw deep is a waste of a down, and refusal to really feature our RBs in the passing game or getting Carswell onto the field at FB, TE, or a 6th OL are mistakes. We also don't do enough to establish control between the hashmarks with our recievers, instead we rely on the running game to keep the interior honest.

I blame Kubiak because he's either not willing to adjust his gameplan to utilize what is emerging as our strengths, or he's simply not capable. Either way he's not getting the offense to produce and thats all that matters. Its not about execution when you fail to adjust to the opposing defense.

[watermock]

It seems they are joined at the hip.

The only hope is the Houston job.

[Cito Pelon]

Jake usually rolls to the right actually.

Absolutely horrible analysis as usual.

You don't watch the games, wino.

[Cito Pelon]

You know that Plummer doesn't call the plays. Each play has options. When I had it explained, each time you line up, there is a read at the LOS to determine the best matchup, and thats the best read. The idea is you don't have to audible, the D will show you the soft spot, and you just go that direction. Now that is the Shanahan philosophy of not having to audible, that there is always a soft spot. Of course, it's Jakes responsibility to read the coverage for the proper reciever. If he sees Lelie one on one, he might let it fly. If they see press at the line, a slant to Rod.

For a wino, you get the picture pretty good sometimes. Now get it through your alcohol-soaked head - and not only you - that the receivers have to find the soft spot also.

[Cito Pelon]

Wow, this thread really turned into an out of control trainwreck since I started it. I love it. :D

Anyhow, my brief two cents response to the current progress:
I blame Kubiak because he not only gets to work under an excellent offensive mind in Shanahan, but he can't even get the job done at that. Is Shanny really that heavily involved in the offense now? He might well be, but if he is that means Kubiak is basically stealing a paycheck, because we know for damn sure he isn't coming up with something new and exciting.

I want an OC who brings something new to the table and can devise a weekly gameplan without Shanahan. I'm sure Shanahan wants input regarding the gameplan offensively for each week, but he should be free to put more time into the team as a whole, not focusing on the offensive gameplan. We need someone who can look at what we've done well and find ways to better utilize those strengths while playing away from our weaknesses, and be capable of composing an NFL level gameplan withouth Shanny's input, who can then peruse and recommend as he sees fit.

I've already talked about my complaints, I think Ashley is wasted as a decoy, Jake trying to throw deep is a waste of a down, and refusal to really feature our RBs in the passing game or getting Carswell onto the field at FB, TE, or a 6th OL are mistakes. We also don't do enough to establish control between the hashmarks with our recievers, instead we rely on the running game to keep the interior honest.

I blame Kubiak because he's either not willing to adjust his gameplan to utilize what is emerging as our strengths, or he's simply not capable. Either way he's not getting the offense to produce and thats all that matters. Its not about execution when you fail to adjust to the opposing defense.

I've said before, and I'll say it again, this passing offense that ShanaKubiak have designed can be an ass-kicker in conjunction with the running game. It's there, but for whatever reason it isn't clicking just yet. We're at game 6 right now, there's a long way to go. It's an ass-kicker on paper, ShanaKubiak haven't got it clicking on all cylinders yet.

[BroncoBuff]

I'll ask again. Do you think Shanahan and Kubiak are just forgetting about the intermediate routes?
Yes. It's still just 5 games, and with all the drops in Miami, you can't count that game. But, yes - 15-yard passes seem non-existent this year. It's either the short outs and slants to Rod - or else wasted bombs to Lelie. I've been complaining all week that they should throw to Putzier a LOT more. 5to 6 or more balls a game. I say this because passes to Jeb seem low-risk in INT potential, and high-reward in yardage. He's the best run-after-catch guy on the roster, too.

My read of Shanny's and Kubiak's personalities leaves me thinking Shanny either calls the plays and/or over-rules Kubiak's calls liberally. Shanny seems WAY too much a contol-freak, and I'm guessing too invested in his "offensive genius" tag to let ANYBODY call more than 1 play in a row.

They still script the first series of plays . . . and I read on this board somewhere - just today - where Shanahan is the #1 all-time coach in first-quarter point differential. If so, that's probably due to those scripts! So that begs the question: why limit scripts to the first series? Why not script NUMEROUS series of plays? I know play-calling must react to what the Defense shows you, but how about scripting several series of plays, depending upon what you see?

And how about a little "no-huddle" to scrape the rust off this offense? Now THAT sounds like a good idea.

[Taco John]

I blame Kubiak because he's either not willing to adjust his gameplan to utilize what is emerging as our strengths, or he's simply not capable.


The problem I have with your take here is that it's not true. Kubiak/Shanahan are clearly adjusting his gameplan to utilize this team's strengths and weaknesses. It's the whole reason we're winning. How creative can you get when you have to work with the limitations that they do? They're doing a fine job of exploiting the strength of our offense (running) while controlling the weakness (passing game).

The recipe for winning this year isn't through a spectacular offense. It's through a strict ball control offense that limits mistakes.

[Odysseus]

:poke: OK, I've come to this conclusion over the first 5 games. Kubiak isn't doing his job. Our passing game sucks and our running game struggled the first few games. Its not that Jake can't get it done because he does one week against KC's DBs, which isn't too horrible a group (Surtain is good), but then can't hit the broad side of a barn the next (see 10/25 against the foreskins 2nd string DBs). Lelie's numbers are pathetic, only Rod catches more than a couple passes a game, and Carswell leads the team in TD receptions.

Kubiak simply isn't adjusting. Five games in, no adjustments made to date. Shanny needs to kick his boy's ass. Coyer saw us get stomped in week one, saw it start to become a trend half way through the SD game, but he adjusted at the half and we've become a solid defense. He isn't adjusting quite as quickly as I'd like, but he's going into each week with a quality scheme to start with so we can get by with what he's providing. Kubiak though, I just don't understand. We find a weapon, use it for a game, then put it away and don't touch it after that. Case in point, hitting our RBs on short routes outside the tackles. It saved us in the SD game but has been almost non-existant since. Or using House as an elidgable OL in place of a TE in goal line situations. He got the job done against JAX, why not make him a staple in short yardage plays consistantly, in much the role we used to use Hape in, only bigger, stronger, a better blocker, and with better hands, making it a more consistant option.

I don't think Kubiak is making the best use of the talent he's provided with, and he's going to cost this team a win in the near future. Everyone will blame Jake or Ashley, Bell or Anderson, the OL, whomever, ultimately it will have been Kubiak who failed to take advatange of the weakness he sees when the game starts, or his inability to counter the opposing defense's moves. This really scares me for the NE game because Bellicheck is all about gametime adjustments and will quickly find a way to neutralize our offense if we don't counter his moves well.

Please Houston, hire our OC, we really don't want him anymore.

:poke:

[Paladin]

Did you really have to do that?

[bendog]

I blame Kubes' bad back for making me endure a game with Musgrave as the starting qb, back before I had the sat package and Den was the natl game maybe three times a year.

I was not married to Mrs Dog at the time, though I was watching the game from her apt. She was in Atl at the time. I was alone. With alcohol. And a broncos game. I was eating a bowl of lentil soup she'd left for me, and was scraping the lentils off the piece of pork, when I noticed the pork was a pork jowl that needed a shave. It was not a good evening.

[Hotrod]

LOL he likes his crow served cold ;D

[Clockwork Orange]

Awesome thread.

[Hotrod]

And now the voice of reason Knowitall

1. Thats my adopted Bronco your belly aching about.
2. Were 4-1 and getting the job done
3. Shanny makes the final decission on each play that is run and when.
4. Your bandwagon is worse then the bring back Rice and cut Lelie wagon which was amazing to say the least.

Hotrod is starting his own bandwagon. It will be known as the FASB - "Fans against stupid bandwagons" Ha! all aboard

[Odysseus]

Target acquired. Request permission to fire.

Missiles launched.

[Crushaholic]

At the time this thread was made, we had no idea Washington would be a playoff team. I love this thread bump...ROFL!

[bendog]

You guys are cruel. I'm just glad I didn't run into any of you during those years I spent in Montana before moving to texas and marrying the rodeo queen and going to work for her father and ....

[Odysseus]

You guys are cruel. I'm just glad I didn't run into any of you during those years I spent in Montana before moving to texas and marrying the rodeo queen and going to work for her father and ....

I want to hear Old Dude's story. How do you get that twisted and don't end up in the Post Office on aposter?

[watermock]

You guys are cruel. I'm just glad I didn't run into any of you during those years I spent in Montana before moving to texas and marrying the rodeo queen and going to work for her father and ....

And we are all card carrying members of the National Squirt Gun Association.

Except Alec...that arsenal would make the Terminator blush.

[Atlas]

Kubiak sucks any team in the NFL would be crazy to sign him as their head coach. In fact it's in all the other teams best interest NOT to hire Kubiak. They should want him to stay here and mess everything up for Denver like he did this year.

[ludo21]

;D Kubiak sucks any team in the NFL would be crazy to sign him as their head coach. In fact it's in all the other teams best interest NOT to hire Kubiak. They should want him to stay here and mess everything up for Denver like he did this year.


yeah.... :clown:

reverse mojo has gotta work!

[watermock]

The only team Kubiak would fit in is detroit because they have 3 high pick WR and a top QB, who appears to be a bust.

I think I have solved the playcalling riddle. I think Pubes sends down a play and Shanahan either releases it or vetos it. Now this is an assertion, but it kinda seems like it.

[sirhcyennek81]

Carr is a pretty good QB. QB is not the problem in Houston, pathetic offensive and defensive lines are the problem.

:Broncos:

[Odysseus]

Kubiak sucks any team in the NFL would be crazy to sign him as their head coach. In fact it's in all the other teams best interest NOT to hire Kubiak. They should want him to stay here and mess everything up for Denver like he did this year.

He's nothing more than a back to back Superbowl wonder. This team backed into the playoffs. They were lucky to steal all the games they won.

[ozomulsion]

The only team Kubiak would fit in is detroit because they have 3 high pick WR and a top QB, who appears to be a bust.

I think I have solved the playcalling riddle. I think Pubes sends down a play and Shanahan either releases it or vetos it. Now this is an assertion, but it kinda seems like it.

Agreed

[Drek]

Notice all the talk this season about Shanny taking a much more active role in the offense? Notice how much better Jake is doing? I'd say its a Cause > Effect relationship right there.

I still think we'll be a better team WITHOUT Kubiak (and I'm hoping he goes to Texas), especially if Turner becomes the OC.

[Pendejo]

The problem I have with your take here is that it's not true. Kubiak/Shanahan are clearly adjusting his gameplan to utilize this team's strengths and weaknesses. It's the whole reason we're winning. How creative can you get when you have to work with the limitations that they do? They're doing a fine job of exploiting the strength of our offense (running) while controlling the weakness (passing game).

The recipe for winning this year isn't through a spectacular offense. It's through a strict ball control offense that limits mistakes.

Right. But they still have a legit deep threat in Lelie, and the Rat tries it at least once a game to keep them honest. Absolutely...execution has been the key for the Donks' offense this season. Occasionally they'll go deep, or pull something else out of the hat...there's a reason for it...but for the most part they are a tightly choreographed offense...with a limited ability to ad lib. I'm really impressed with the job that the Rat, Kubiak...et al have done this year. It's not perfect, but the Donks are a balanced enough team that they are serious contenders to win it all.

[Rock Chalk]

Did you really have to do that?
Dude's fighting in Iraq and has time to be ****ing around digging up 2 month old threads.

God bless him.

[-Slap-]

Notice all the talk this season about Shanny taking a much more active role in the offense? Notice how much better Jake is doing? I'd say its a Cause > Effect relationship right there.

I still think we'll be a better team WITHOUT Kubiak (and I'm hoping he goes to Texas), especially if Turner becomes the OC.
Notice Plummer's stats from 2003 and 2005 are eerily similar?

I think Kubiak kidnapped Shanahan last year and kept him drugged in a secret hideaway. Then he hired an ersatz Shanny to patrol the sidelines impotently as the Kubiak led Snake reverted back to his bad old days of hucking 20+ interceptions.

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 2003 den | 11 | 189 302 62.6 2182 7.2 15 7 | 37 205 3 |
| 2004 den | 16 | 303 521 58.2 4089 7.8 27 20 | 62 202 1 |
| 2005 den | 16 | 277 456 60.7 3366 7.4 18 7 | 45 156 2 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 127 | 2309 4033 57.3 27259 6.8 150 148 | 391 1746 16 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

[Atlas]

The only team Kubiak would fit in is detroit because they have 3 high pick WR and a top QB, who appears to be a bust.

I think I have solved the playcalling riddle. I think Pubes sends down a play and Shanahan either releases it or vetos it. Now this is an assertion, but it kinda seems like it.

Why would you say that? After all he called the plays for the #1 rushing team in the NFL since 1995. Seems to me the Texans and Reggie Bush would be the perfect fit.

[Odysseus]

Dude's fighting in Iraq and has time to be ****ing around digging up 2 month old threads.

God bless him.

Tiger OIF 1 - OIF IV -- I think things might be winding down for me. We'll see. I'm in the rear with the gear so I don't have to step over body parts and blood stains to get to work. They had a really nasty explosion today. It's been quiet for long we were due.

I think old threads are the best. I don't always bump them but ain't it grand?
:))