View Full Version : Did Shanny steal Jake's soul??
http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_3107255
Plummer playing in fade pattern
By Mark Kiszla
Denver Post Sports Columnist
Hey, didn't you used to be Jake Plummer?
The Snake has been changed into a mouse.
Eek! The Broncos have done what was long believed impossible for a quarterback who lives in football-crazy Denver.
They have made Plummer invisible.
Around here, quarterback has been transformed from glamour position to grunt work.
The Denver passing attack has been grounded faster than a teenager busted for a bong in the underwear drawer.
In coach Mike Shanahan's game plan, Plummer is now regularly asked to make the same number of plays as Miles the Mascot, who wears an inflatable horse head to the stadium.
While it's impossible to argue with their 4-1 record, imagine how awesome the Broncos might be if they played with 11 guys on offense instead of 10.
With the NFL embracing retro, cloud-of-dust thinking that has coaches bent on making the quarterback irrelevant, Plummer no longer throws careless interceptions, flips the bird at hecklers, grows his beard longer than Grizzly Adams or is allowed any fun whatsoever.
Shanahan spent long, arduous months in the offseason deprogramming the mistakes out of Jake, but do we really want the Stepford quarterback?
Teammates insist he's still the same Jake they know and love.
Could have fooled me.
I comented on this during the game. Jake is thinking too much and for Jake... well this is not his strong suit.
What I'm hoping is this is part of his WCO learning curve.
Bob's your Information Minister
10-12-2005, 07:24 AM
What I'm hoping is this is part of his WCO learning curve.
How many years in a row is this going to be used as an excuse?
How many years in a row is this going to be used as an excuse?
From now on it will be every other year Bob
-Slap-
10-12-2005, 07:26 AM
What an artless and ungainly attempt to stir the pot by Kizslut.
http://www.mastroillustration.com/Jpegs/images/yawn.jpg
Pat Bowlen
10-12-2005, 07:27 AM
As long as we're winning, nothing's wrong..... right?
Mile High Shack
10-12-2005, 07:41 AM
and Kizla would be the first one to bitch the minute Jake threw for 300 yards, but had 3 INTs
azbroncfan
10-12-2005, 07:53 AM
Plummer has a good record as a starter. Who cares what his numbers are, even elway didn't have the best numbers or passer ratings.
Rohirrim
10-12-2005, 07:59 AM
Kizla! Hasn't anybody punched that little twerp yet?
Circle Orange
10-12-2005, 08:14 AM
Kizla! Hasn't anybody punched that little twerp yet?
I don't know about the punching, but have you SEEN Kizla lately? He's HUGE...I wonder if he stole Sean Salisbury's chins in the offseason. :o
As far as Jake goes, the method seems to be minimize the game for him as much as possible. Kinda annoying, the guy's a nine year vet. If he can't play the whole field by now he never will.
Why do I have this weird feeling they'll see the Colts again???
bendog
10-12-2005, 08:22 AM
damn it. I LOOKED at a Kizla article. Didn't read it, but dammit I saw one.
enjolras
10-12-2005, 08:26 AM
How many years in a row is this going to be used as an excuse?
Only as long as the defensive coordinator works as an excuse for the Chefs lack of defensive talent.
Bob's your Information Minister
10-12-2005, 08:42 AM
Only as long as the defensive coordinator works as an excuse for the Chefs lack of defensive talent.
What an incredibly lame deflection.
Taco John
10-12-2005, 08:56 AM
What an incredibly lame deflection.
Well here's one that's not lame.
AFC West Standings
1. Denver 4-1 (Won 4)
2. Kansas City 2-2 (Lost 2)
3. San Diego 2-3 (Lost 1)
4. Oakland 1-3 (Won 1)
bombquixote
10-12-2005, 09:08 AM
Well here's one that's not lame.
AFC West Standings
1. Denver 4-1 (Won 4)
2. Kansas City 2-2 (Lost 2)
3. San Diego 2-3 (Lost 1)
4. Oakland 1-3 (Won 1)
whoa. who did oakland beat? did they crash the highschool regionals?
Bob's your Information Minister
10-12-2005, 09:10 AM
Well here's one that's not lame.
AFC West Standings
1. Denver 4-1 (Won 4)
2. Kansas City 2-2 (Lost 2)
3. San Diego 2-3 (Lost 1)
4. Oakland 1-3 (Won 1)
ALL deflections are lame. :pfbbt:
Pat Bowlen
10-12-2005, 09:24 AM
ALL deflections are lame. :pfbbt:
You must have quite the guilty conscience.
Shoot the messenger (Kizla) if you must but it appears after watching the game again Plummer is thinking too much and it has hurt his game. He is overlooking open receivers taking too long to find them and not getting them a catchable ball. He just seems to be forcing his game.
bronco militia
10-12-2005, 12:07 PM
Shoot the messenger (Kizla) if you must but it appears after watching the game again Plummer is thinking too much and it has hurt his game. He is overlooking open receivers taking too long to find them and not getting them a catchable ball. He just seems to be forcing his game.
if you consider the type of defenses the Broncos have gone up against, I'd say he's playing rather well (for Jake).
The Broncos can't play the Chiefs every week !Booya!
Meck77
10-12-2005, 12:08 PM
What an artless and ungainly attempt to stir the pot by Kizslut.
http://www.mastroillustration.com/Jpegs/images/yawn.jpg
Exactly. That's how these guys get attention. Just listen to Irv and Joe. It's all about stirring the pot and getting people to call in and react.
I go to the Orangemane for football takes. I read articles in the post and listen to local radio shows for entertainment. What's funny is Orangemane takes end up on the local radio shows anyways.
These guys just need to fess up and register with their real names and join in on some football talk.
24champ
10-12-2005, 12:08 PM
What an incredibly lame deflection.
theres always next year bob Ha!
OrangeShadow
10-12-2005, 12:12 PM
I don't know about the punching, but have you SEEN Kizla lately? He's HUGE...I wonder if he stole Sean Salisbury's chins in the offseason. :o
As far as Jake goes, the method seems to be minimize the game for him as much as possible. Kinda annoying, the guy's a nine year vet. If he can't play the whole field by now he never will.
Why do I have this weird feeling they'll see the Colts again???
and the winner of strangest avatar goes to.... CIRCLE ORANGE :crazy:
Popps
10-12-2005, 12:13 PM
While I'm thrilled that Jake seems to be making the right decisions about when to take a sack, throw a ball away, etc... I do agree that he's seemed a bit reluctant at times. But, that may just be what we get if we ask him to be ultra-careful with the ball, which is what people have been asking for. I'm fine with that, and in actuality.. he's simply not working with an all-star receiving corps out there. He doesn't have a Chad Johnson or a Randy Moss.... a guy who you can just chuck the ball up and you know he'll come down with it.
I thought Sunday was Jake's worst game yet... even worse than the Miami game. Why? The Dolphins put such massive pressure on Plummer that day, he had no chance to throw. He hardly had a chance to drop back. When he did, he managed to find receivers from time to time. (I think he had 250 passing?) But, we had ZERO run game that day, and receivers were dropping balls left and right. (YES, I realize that Jake didn't have a great game, either.)
But on Sunday, Jake had time in the pocket... and he looked uncomfortable. He threw the ball off his back foot a couple of times, and just looked out of sorts. I honestly think the guy is afraid of the rain or something. But, that said... I just watched the second drive again (Lelie TD).... and Jake made some great plays on that drive. He had a couple of really nice throws, a run for a first down (called back on a hold) ... then he completed a nice 3rd down throw on 3rd and long. It was a great drive. So, it's not like he didn't do anything to help us win on Sunday. Watch that drive again if you have it on tape. It was very solid.
I think as long as we have a marginal group of receivers, we're probably best off with a conservative approach from Plummer. It's gotten us to 4-1. If we fall behind, then we'll have to ask him to open it up a bit. But, for now... I'm thrilled to have him keeping us in games and letting our defense, running game and special teams win it for us.
The Big E
10-12-2005, 12:41 PM
and the winner of strangest avatar goes to.... CIRCLE ORANGE :crazy:
I don't understand it, but I have made it the avatar for my fantasy team. I also thought the man in a bunny suit avatar she had was quite funny as well.
Hercules Rockefeller
10-12-2005, 12:46 PM
As far as Jake goes, the method seems to be minimize the game for him as much as possible. Kinda annoying, the guy's a nine year vet. If he can't play the whole field by now he never will.
and people say Shanahan isn't going to look for a QB in this upcoming draft.
Circle Orange
10-12-2005, 01:23 PM
I don't understand it, but I have made it the avatar for my fantasy team. I also thought the man in a bunny suit avatar she had was quite funny as well.
Hee, you didn't like mister sparkles? That's okay, the PINKSTER will be back, along with others. I got some doozies lined up! :yep:
BroncoBuff
10-12-2005, 01:42 PM
What an artless and ungainly attempt to stir the pot by Kizslut.
I completely DISAGREE!
The passing offense appears to be on life-support, if it's still alive at all. Questioning what's up with Jake is completely proper. I recently heard (I think it was from Madden) where Kubiak and his henchmen broke down every '03 and '04 Plummer throwing play to determine which types of routes and under which conditions Jake was likely to throw picks. Apparently they excised (removed) the most aggregious plays from the playbook. I don't know if that's the problem, but it sounds like heavy-handed tinkering with a player who is - in his base self - a wide-open wheeler-dealer like Jake.
A bigger concern for me is - Where the heck is Jeb Putzier?!
We matched the Jets $10 million offer sheet - so why don't we USE him?! And it seems to me that Jeb's routes are low-risk from an interception standpoint and HIGH-REWARD for yardage.
Remember the "Moss equation" in Minnesota a few years back? That a certain percentage of plays (I think 40%) should be directed to Randy? Well I think we need something like that for Jeb . . . not as high, of course - but at least throw to him 5 or 6 times EVERY GAME!
Odysseus
10-12-2005, 01:52 PM
I don't know about the punching, but have you SEEN Kizla lately? He's HUGE...I wonder if he stole Sean Salisbury's chins in the offseason.
Next time you see the chunk of butter throw a cheese sandwiche or some ho ho's down an elevator shaft and see if he lunges for it.
Odysseus
10-12-2005, 01:59 PM
A bigger concern for me is - Where the heck is Jeb Putzier?!
We matched the Jets $10 million offer sheet - so why don't we USE him?! And it seems to me that Jeb's routes are low-risk from an interception standpoint and HIGH-REWARD for yardage.
If the defense makes the mistake of forgetting him then Jake will make them pay. :thumbs:
Crushaholic
10-12-2005, 02:05 PM
A bigger concern for me is - Where the heck is Jeb Putzier?!
I don't have the stats, but I remember Jake throwing to Jeb a couple of times Sunday...and Jeb dropping the passes... :nono:
Odysseus
10-12-2005, 02:10 PM
I don't have the stats, but I remember Jake throwing to Jeb a couple of times Sunday...and Jeb dropping the passes... :nono:
My hope is that Jeb isn't sitting to close to Watts on the bench. Maybe it's contagious.
BroncoBuff
10-12-2005, 03:04 PM
I don't have the stats, but I remember Jake throwing to Jeb a couple of times Sunday...and Jeb dropping the passes... :nono:
THIS Sunday - vs. Washington? I don't remember Jeb dropping passes that day - or any day for that matter. Maybe he's dropped one or two this year (Miami maybe - hell, even I dropped one against the Dolphins! :egbgb: )
I really think we should throw him 5-plus balls every game. I think so far this year, we've thrown as many balls to STEPHEN ALEXANDER as Jeb Putzier . . . and that is just W R O N G ! !
Although - perhaps Jeb's success with the balls thrown his way is owed in part to the fact we throw to him rarely. hmmm . . . :kiddingme
Popps
10-12-2005, 03:11 PM
Didn't Jeb catch the pass that got us into the red zone to set up the Lelie TD? I remember Plummer making a couple of nice connections on that drive, and I'm pretty sure one was to Smith and one to Putzier.
BroncoFanDoug
10-12-2005, 03:19 PM
Didn't Jeb catch the pass that got us into the red zone to set up the Lelie TD? I remember Plummer making a couple of nice connections on that drive, and I'm pretty sure one was to Smith and one to Putzier.
He had 1 catch for 31 yds against skins. For the year he is tied for 2nd with Lelie in catches at 11. Of course that may have more to do with Plummer and Lelie not hooking up more that Jeb being the 2nd favorite target. Still, he has not been ignored.
BroncoBuff
10-12-2005, 03:25 PM
He had 1 catch for 31 yds against skins. For the year he is tied for 2nd with Lelie in catches at 11. Of course that may have more to do with Plummer and Lelie not hooking up more that Jeb being the 2nd favorite target. Still, he has not been ignored.
Maybe not "ignored", but 11 in 5 games is still not enough. I guess that's because the entire PASSING GAME is "not enough" so far - Plummer is averaging just 176 ypg.
IMO, the routes Jeb runs are low-risk for INT, high-reward for yardage and 3d-down conversions.
Didn't Jeb catch the pass that got us into the red zone to set up the Lelie TD? I remember Plummer making a couple of nice connections on that drive, and I'm pretty sure one was to Smith and one to Putzier.
Jeb made a couple of nice grabs in the Skins game. One he turned into a first down with a good effort against two tacklers I believe.
As for your take on Plummer being hesitant in the pocket at times I really think he has been over coached, he has so much info rolling around in his head that he no longer just reacts to what he sees. I do believe he will grow past this too and become a very good WCO by the latter part of the season.
My guess is Shanny/Kubes dropped the rest of the O on him and he is struggling with the mental overload.
clarker
10-12-2005, 07:13 PM
Last year Jake threw for a ton of yards and TD's but alot of INT's as well and people screamed that he should play ball control. Kiszla whined last year that Jake wouldn't take a sack and trust the defense.
This year he isn't throwing for a lot of TD's but he hasn't trown a pick since the first half of Charger game I believe. He is trusting that his defense can hold them and not force things.
Kiszla is just made because:
1. He thought he could bash Shanny on the Cleveland D-linemen but the have played pretty good.
2. He thought he could ride the Clarett was a bust and Shanny can't draft bandwagon, but the play of the two rookie corners have more than trumped the Clarett pick.
He has to find something to bash Shanny and this is it. All last year he whinned that Jake made to many mistakes. Now this year he has made less, so far, so he says Jake and the offense is boring. There is nothing that Shanny can for Kiszla to write something positive about him.
Kaylore
10-12-2005, 07:18 PM
Damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Damned if we do and damned if we don't.
Probably my fault for posting the Kiszla article but my intent with this thread is to discuss the possibility that Jake's brain may be too full with WCO options explaining why he seems indecisive in the pocket at times.
Willynowei
10-12-2005, 09:15 PM
I don't know if i completely agree with the current assesment of Jake.
I think he's improving, he could always throw on the run, thats not a problem, the problem is when he's in the pocket.
There are four balls that Jake has trouble throwing; the Fade, the Skinny Post, the dig and the out.
Sadly, thats more than half the throws a QB could ever make, the only others are the go, the comeback, the slant and the flare.
But i think he's been throwing those digs a lot better this year. he can throw deep posts, just not skinny posts which requires more timing.
I'd say that he's shown improvement to be honest, actually I think the coaching team has more confidence in him than ever. Against KC and Jax Jake threw atleast two or three fades, which are balls shanny would never dare let jake throw in the past. All were to lelie, and all were either over or under thrown. Now that sounds bad, but if he's doing it in game he must be doing it right in practice. I think down the stretch Jake will get better at it.
Now if he just throws the dig and fade well, I think Jake will be fine, Skinny post takes too much timing for Jake to ever get right and outs take too much accuracy. But I could live with Jake throwing all but two balls in the pocket, since he spends most of his glory time outside of it anyways. Go Jake! !Booya!
labronco
10-12-2005, 09:46 PM
Did Shanny steal Jake's soul??
Save your cry over Jake and Ashley. I start thinking how bad we are once our loss column increases.
How about this for a change:
Everyone underestimated Miami and Washington. Anyone, including myself, who had thought we are going to get next year's #1 pick were mistaken. They are tough football teams with good coaches. We beat very good football teams in Kansas City, San Diego and Jacksonville.
Granted our offense is out of sink, as long as we find a way to win, that is cool with me. As for all the venom about how fortunate we were to beat Washington, I will take luck over good any day.
It's a long season. Jake and Ashley will have their days. I am hoping they will play well next game against the defending champs.
RedskinBronco
10-12-2005, 09:55 PM
and people say Shanahan isn't going to look for a QB in this upcoming draft.
Maybe they can use that high draft pick all of you expect :alghh: , courtesy of the redskins of course.
:coach: bronco billy...get ur @$$ back here, I am coach and GM shanahan!
24champ
10-12-2005, 11:01 PM
A bigger concern for me is - Where the heck is Jeb Putzier?!
We matched the Jets $10 million offer sheet - so why don't we USE him?! And it seems to me that Jeb's routes are low-risk from an interception standpoint and HIGH-REWARD for yardage.
If i recall "the plan" is going to get us Antonio Gates next year....
Did Shanny steal Jake's soul??
Save your cry over Jake and Ashley. I start thinking how bad we are once our loss column increases.
How about this for a change:
Everyone underestimated Miami and Washington. Anyone, including myself, who had thought we are going to get next year's #1 pick were mistaken. They are tough football teams with good coaches. We beat very good football teams in Kansas City, San Diego and Jacksonville.
Granted our offense is out of sink, as long as we find a way to win, that is cool with me. As for all the venom about how fortunate we were to beat Washington, I will take luck over good any day.
It's a long season. Jake and Ashley will have their days. I am hoping they will play well next game against the defending champs.
Your right we are a good, let's just close shop no need to discuss anything we are a good team end of story.
TJ cancel your server we are a good team no need to waste your mony on a BB there is nothing more to say we are a good team.
LA Bronco has it in BOLD to prove it.
Geez!
BroncoBuff
10-13-2005, 07:37 AM
If i recall "the plan" is going to get us Antonio Gates next year....
What plan?
Nobody told ME anything about any plan!
Seriously - Walls and Lepsis are the guys with contract issues next year. They paid Jeb already - matched the Jets offer sheet. And didn't Gates just re-sign after a holdout? Or did he come into camp WITHOUT a new contract?
Taco John
10-13-2005, 08:10 AM
Probably my fault for posting the Kiszla article but my intent with this thread is to discuss the possibility that Jake's brain may be too full with WCO options explaining why he seems indecisive in the pocket at times.
Oh, that's not indecisiveness... That's just extreme thoughtfulness...
Why you gotta hate like that?
Oh, that's not indecisiveness... That's just extreme thoughtfulness...
Why you gotta hate like that?
http://photos1.blogger.com/img/122/4356/1024/The%20Thinker%20statue.jpg