Skins/Broncos upon further review... feel better about our pass rush

[Bronco Yoda]

Watching the game again I was suprised how well our pass rush had been considering we had no sacks and all the writeups about how our D was stopped because of 'SAID' Gibbs schemes.

B.S.....

We had Brunell on the run more than I remembered and made him throw away a good dozen passes with one of them getting the yellow hanky.


Brunell just played a very good game not only with his accuracy but with his feet. We were flying all around him.

I feel better about our pass rush again.

I also noticed that the biggest thing that bought him time was the Shotgun. I swear he was in the shotgun 2/3 of the time in the first half. Forget about all this Gibbs magical 2 TE O-line mojo. What saved Brunells butt was a shotgun, quick hot reads and heading for a quick sideline throw away.

...It worked pretty well too.


I wish we'd at least consider the shotgun on those crazy empty backfields.

All those Lelie dropps looked even worse second time around. All were very catchable balls to him.

It's no wonder we didn't break 100 yards passing. When Jake wasn't misfiring, Lelie was dropping high school balls.


anyway.... upon further review our D line gave plenty of pressure IMO. Brunell to his credit just made plays.

[ludo21]

i too thought we had more pressure than what was said here. Brunell also rolled out of the pocket a ton right away to buy him an extra sec or 2. Their first TD should of been a pick by Ferg, but he seemed to of lost the WR. He better learn from that, caz i dont wanna see that again.

[Bronco Yoda]

heck, he was rolling out of the shotgun as well and we still were making him throw it away.

It's funny how some games look so different when you watch them again in a quiet atmosphere and a pause button.

Brunell was on fire with his accuracy for a dry day...let alone a wet one. Bell too was running as if only he was running on a dry field. Strange how a couple players seemed to not be bothered by the elements while everyone else around them were slipping and sliding.

[CHANGSTER]

Seems we got a fair amout of pressure.
Even if we didnt get much, they had up to 8 guys blocking on some downs so im not worried bout our line.

[watermock]

Brunell put on his Favre outfit without the INT's...he was incredible...remember when I wanted to bring him in as a backup several years ago? Or a starter? He's still a good QB.

The thing about Gibbs offense is that you can build a wall with extra line, but you lose recievers. Where Denver failed was to properly cover the WR's. Thats due to several factors quite obvious...the least of which isn't having three rookies on the field.

The good news is that each week, these rookies get more experience. I think it's called "upside". D-Will has gotten a ton of snaps and Foxy has too. Now if Paymah steps up to his potential and stops being lazy, we will have a coup.

I'm in homer mode. Being manic, I ocillate...I think it's good our green corners are getting so much playing time and we have still managed 4-1.

Of course a crusty old vet like Brunell would take advantage...remember the 96 playoff game we let go?

The fact is that we have some rookie corners that are showing up. I was listening to the radio and said that D-Will made an outstanding leaping breakup of a pass. Foxy was rookie of the week. Champ will solidify the whole group if he can get off his ass.

man, I worry he's going to be rusty...that hammy has bothered him all year....He needs to tape up and gut it out...this is the Pats, not the Patsies of old yarn.

[Bronco Yoda]

I don't want to even talk about that 96 punch in the Gut. We could have been a three peat.

Our rookie corners are really stepping up. Fox saved the game by stopping that touchdown. That was incredible blanket converage. Champ couldn't have done any better on that play. What I've liked about their play is shutting down the yac. They are tackleing very well.

Brunell seems to play well agains us. And he can still move. They got him rolling out on shotguns with 2 TE sets. I don't think it's possible to create anymore protection than that.

[Mediator12]

I don't want to even talk about that 96 punch in the Gut. We could have been a three peat.

Our rookie corners are really stepping up. Fox saved the game by stopping that touchdown. That was incredible blanket converage. Champ couldn't have done any better on that play. What I've liked about their play is shutting down the yac. They are tackleing very well.

Brunell seems to play well agains us. And he can still move. They got him rolling out on shotguns with 2 TE sets. I don't think it's possible to create anymore protection than that.

The young guys and Walls missed a bunch of tackles and WAS had 100 yards of YAC with 40 to Cooley alone. There were no less than four quick throws that went for ten yards or more after missed tackles. That was the difference in the two TD drives IMHO. Missed opportunities.

That being said the rookies were solid at least and only Darrent let one get behind him and he had to push off to make the catch.

[baja]

heck, he was rolling out of the shotgun as well and we still were making him throw it away.

It's funny how some games look so different when you watch them again in a quiet atmosphere and a pause button.

Brunell was on fire with his accuracy for a dry day...let alone a wet one. Bell too was running as if only he was running on a dry field. <b> Strange how a couple players seemed to not be bothered by the elements while everyone else around them were slipping and sliding.</b>

Good observation I noticed the same.I wondered at the time if maybe they had on different cleats.

[Bronco Yoda]

I'll have to watch the tape again because I don't remember anyone breaking anything long and that's what I'm talking about. Sure Brunell was rolling out and hitting people underneath all day long but again no one broke anything long. Brunell just threw up a lot and the yards added up because we were keeping everything in front of us most of the time.

I don't consider Walls one of the Rooks.

I know Cooley had a lot of yards underneath and spun and dove for a few extra but he didn't break anything long either. On that one TD I think it was Fox that didn't go down and stop that last TD but then again he caught that in the end zone.

[Rascal]

They dinked and dunked us to death. Same thing Miami did and I'm sure the same thing the Pats are going to do. Coyer better come up with something to stop it or it could be a long day for our defense.

[-Slap-]

Watching the game again I was suprised how well our pass rush had been considering we had no sacks and all the writeups about how our D was stopped because of 'SAID' Gibbs schemes.

B.S.....

We had Brunell on the run more than I remembered and made him throw away a good dozen passes with one of them getting the yellow hanky.


Brunell just played a very good game not only with his accuracy but with his feet. We were flying all around him.

I feel better about our pass rush again.

The only reason some people were tripping is because they think the defensive line should be terrorizing quarterbacks like the Fearsome Foursome every single week. The game doesn't work that way.

[Rascal]

If the officials would have called a holding penalty occasionally I'm sure it would have helped. When you see a d-lineman getting hog tied it's usually a good time to throw the flag.

[Bronco Yoda]

I hope we play up more now and challenge them at the line. I know that Coyer seems to be protected the rooks by letting them sit back and keep things in front of them. And for good reason. Unless we score a lot we won't be able to do this against Brady.

[RedskinBronco]

I hope we play up more now and challenge them at the line. I know that Coyer seems to be protected the rooks by letting them sit back and keep things in front of them. And for good reason. Unless we score a lot we won't be able to do this against Brady.


Any news on Bailey? what's his status for the pats?

[Mediator12]

Brady and the Patriots throw the TE, WR screens better than any team in the league. The TE's from NE had two TD's from those screens. He also throws the ball on a one step drop to the off-coverage WR better than anyone in the league. Branch and Givens have made a living picking up 10+ yards of YAC from those throws.

[Rascal]

Yeap. Champ and DW better be in press coverage and tackle well. With Dillon being hurt I would also push the OLB's (or Gold and Brandon in Nickel) outside and a bit deeper to help with those quick slants and what not.

[Phantom]

Not a bad game plan by Gibbs. Max protect and try to isolate his vet WRs on our rookie CBs. He effectivly took our stregth on D (the LBs) out of the game. But ... the rooks stood up and battled. All the Brunnel roll outs, throw aways, and dump offs to Cooley, were demostrating that Moss and Patten were NOT open - the rooks shut 'em down (for the most part). Credit Brunnel's accuracy and decision making (plus patience) for chucking the rock 60 times in the rain with zero picks.

[DrFate]

I'm no math wiz...

If the Redskins have 8 guys to protect 1 QB, that means they have 2 receivers on a play. (8 + 1 + 2 = 11)

If we rush 4, that means we have 7 guys in coverage (4 + 7 = 11)

I understand how important pass rush is - but why can't 7 guys cover 2? If the DLine is getting that much attention (and it is) and they are using EIGHT guys to stop 4 linemen, why can't the 7 guys in coverage stop guys from getting open?

:kiddingme

[Broncoman13]

Watching the game again I was suprised how well our pass rush had been considering we had no sacks and all the writeups about how our D was stopped because of 'SAID' Gibbs schemes.

B.S.....

We had Brunell on the run more than I remembered and made him throw away a good dozen passes with one of them getting the yellow hanky.


Brunell just played a very good game not only with his accuracy but with his feet. We were flying all around him.

I feel better about our pass rush again.

I also noticed that the biggest thing that bought him time was the Shotgun. I swear he was in the shotgun 2/3 of the time in the first half. Forget about all this Gibbs magical 2 TE O-line mojo. What saved Brunells butt was a shotgun, quick hot reads and heading for a quick sideline throw away.

...It worked pretty well too.


I wish we'd at least consider the shotgun on those crazy empty backfields.

All those Lelie dropps looked even worse second time around. All were very catchable balls to him.

It's no wonder we didn't break 100 yards passing. When Jake wasn't misfiring, Lelie was dropping high school balls.


anyway.... upon further review our D line gave plenty of pressure IMO. Brunell to his credit just made plays.

30 completions. 322 yards. 2 TD's. No Interceptions. Nuff Said!

[Mediator12]

I'm no math wiz...

If the Redskins have 8 guys to protect 1 QB, that means they have 2 receivers on a play. (8 + 1 + 2 = 11)

If we rush 4, that means we have 7 guys in coverage (4 + 7 = 11)

I understand how important pass rush is - but why can't 7 guys cover 2? If the DLine is getting that much attention (and it is) and they are using EIGHT guys to stop 4 linemen, why can't the 7 guys in coverage stop guys from getting open?

:kiddingme

I made this point yesterday and the fact with SEVEN in coverage Brunell Ran for three first downs. I am MORE concerned with THAT aspect than the pass rush. The Ultra-max protect schemes mean they had a lot of respect for the pass rush. I am still fuming that we can not cover two with Six and still have a SPY on the QB not to run.

[Rascal]

I'm no math wiz...

If the Redskins have 8 guys to protect 1 QB, that means they have 2 receivers on a play. (8 + 1 + 2 = 11)

If we rush 4, that means we have 7 guys in coverage (4 + 7 = 11)

I understand how important pass rush is - but why can't 7 guys cover 2? If the DLine is getting that much attention (and it is) and they are using EIGHT guys to stop 4 linemen, why can't the 7 guys in coverage stop guys from getting open?

:kiddingme

At least i'm not the only person who thought about this.

They usually had 7 guys protecting so that means 3 WR's out there, but even rushing 5 people 6 guys should be able to cover 3 WR's.

[fontaine]

I'm no math wiz...

If the Redskins have 8 guys to protect 1 QB, that means they have 2 receivers on a play. (8 + 1 + 2 = 11)

If we rush 4, that means we have 7 guys in coverage (4 + 7 = 11)

I understand how important pass rush is - but why can't 7 guys cover 2? If the DLine is getting that much attention (and it is) and they are using EIGHT guys to stop 4 linemen, why can't the 7 guys in coverage stop guys from getting open?

:kiddingme

It's not as simply as that. Teams regularily go into max protext (with 7/8 bodies) then use two WRs to stretch the field (like Moss and Patten).

Then as a defense it's not just about stopping those two WRs. The safeties will have to analyze what's going on and probably go deep to help out in zone coverage, then the OLBs have to take into account the TEs that are in to pass protect since they could easily peel off their blocker to the sidelines. With the defense stretched out, that means a simple missed tackle by a LB could result in a huge gain by a TE streaking down the sidelines. Hell we did the same thing against the skins when we put in House at the line then flared him out and threw him the TD. The MLB will have to make sure the RB doesn't slip out on a screen etc. There are many variations on a simple look of max protect that you have to think about. Thankfully, we've got the speed at LB to minimize what happens over the middle so offenses will have to rely on their WRs to make something happen in Max Protect and that's why we need Champ back so badly.

It's not just two WRs against 7 guys. You also have those two blocking TEs and RB in the backfield than can slip out and make things happen.

To give you an example the Pats did something very similar against Atl, where they had Daniel Graham start off in pass protection. Then he peeled off the rushing DE and Brady threw him a quick 3 yarder. Since the WRs were going deep all that stood in Grahams way was some OLB (D. Williams I think) who got run over and Graham was on his way to a huge run and score.

Now you could argue the DE should have had the presence of mind to drop back into zone coverage but sometimes asking these guys to think too much gets rid of their burst/speed and competitve advantage. We'll see how Coyer handles it this Sunday. A lot depends on Champ and I hope to god the guy is healthy and ready to kick a$$.

[yavoon]

The young guys and Walls missed a bunch of tackles and WAS had 100 yards of YAC with 40 to Cooley alone. There were no less than four quick throws that went for ten yards or more after missed tackles. That was the difference in the two TD drives IMHO. Missed opportunities.

That being said the rookies were solid at least and only Darrent let one get behind him and he had to push off to make the catch.

thats not good, NE loves the quick passes then making corners miss.