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Bronco_Beerslug
10-11-2005, 06:41 AM
And you thought they were just in the movies.

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Scientists have discovered a new and tiny species of human that lived in Indonesia at the same time our own ancestors were colonising the world.

The one-metre- (3ft) tall species - dubbed the "Hobbit" - lived on Flores Island until at least 12,000 years ago.

The fact that little people feature in the legends of modern Flores islanders suggests we might have to take tales of Leprechauns and Yeti more seriously.

Details of the sensational find are described in the journal Nature.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40462000/jpg/_40462667_hflores_pa_203.jpg
Chris Stringer holds a cast of the 18,000-year-old hominid LB1



Australian archaeologists unearthed the bones while digging at a site called Liang Bua, one of numerous limestone caves on Flores.

The remains of the partial skeleton were found at a depth of 5.9m (19ft). At first, the researchers thought it was the body of a child. But further investigation revealed otherwise.

Wear on the teeth and growth lines on the skull confirm it was an adult. Features of the pelvis identify it as female and a leg bone confirms that it walked upright like we do.

"When we got the dates back from the skeleton and we found out how young it was, one anthropologist working with us said it must be wrong because it had so many archaic [primitive] traits," said co-discoverer Mike Morwood, associate professor of archaeology at the University of New England, Australia.

King of the swingers?

The 18,000-year-old specimen, known as Liang Bua 1 or LB1, has been assigned to a new species called Homo floresiensis. It had long arms and a skull the size of a large grapefruit.

The researchers have since found remains belonging to six other individuals from the same species.

LB1 shared its island with a golden retriever-sized rat, giant tortoises and huge lizards - including Komodo dragons - and a pony-sized dwarf elephant called Stegodon which the Hobbits probably hunted.


http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40460000/jpg/_40460955_indone_natgeo_203long.jpg
A male Homo floresiensis may have looked something like this (Image: National Geographic)


Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum, said the long arms were an intriguing feature and might even suggest H. floresiensis spent much of its time in the trees.

"We don't know this. But if there were Komodo dragons about you might want to be up in the trees with your babies where it's safe. It's something for future research, but the fact they had long arms is at least suggestive," Professor Stringer told BBC News Online.

Studies of its hands and feet, which have not yet been described, may shed light on this question, he added.

H. floresiensis probably evolved from another species called Homo erectus, whose remains have been discovered on the Indonesian island of Java.

Homo erectus may have arrived on Flores about one million years ago, evolving its tiny physique in the isolation provided by the island.

What is surprising about this is that this species must have made it to Flores by boat. Yet building craft for travel on open water is traditionally thought to have been beyond the intellectual abilities of Homo erectus.

Legendary creatures

Even more intriguing is the fact that Flores' inhabitants have incredibly detailed legends about the existence of little people on the island they call Ebu Gogo.

The islanders describe Ebu Gogo as being about one metre tall, hairy and prone to "murmuring" to each other in some form of language. They were also able to repeat what islanders said to them in a parrot-like fashion.

"There have always been myths about small people - Ireland has its Leprechauns and Australia has the Yowies. I suppose there's some feeling that this is an oral history going back to the survival of these small people into recent times," said co-discoverer Peter Brown, an associate professor of archaeology at New England.

The last evidence of this human at Liang Bua dates to just before 12,000 years ago, when a volcanic eruption snuffed out much of Flores' unique wildlife.

Yet there are hints H. floresiensis could have lived on much later than this. The last legend featuring the mythical creatures dates to just 100 years ago.

But Henry Gee, senior editor at Nature magazine, goes further. He speculates that species like H.floresiensis might still exist, somewhere in the unexplored tropical forest of Indonesia.

Textbook rewrite

Professor Stringer said the find "rewrites our knowledge of human evolution". He added: "To have [this species] present 12,000 years ago is frankly astonishing."

Homo floresiensis might have evolved its small size in response to the scarcity of resources on the island.

"When creatures get marooned on islands they evolve in new and unpredictable courses. Some species grow very big and some species grow very small," Dr Gee explained.

The sophistication of stone tools found with the Hobbit has surprised some scientists given the human's small brain size of 380cc (around the same size as a chimpanzee).

"The whole idea that you need a particular brain size to do anything intelligent is completely blown away by this find," Dr Gee commented.

Because the remains are relatively recent and not fossilised, scientists are even hopeful they might yield DNA, which could provide an entirely new perspective on the evolution of the human lineage.
http://tinyurl.com/5g7yd

Bronco_Beerslug
10-11-2005, 06:45 AM
More Flores 'Hobbits' described
Scientists have discovered more remains of the strange, small people that once lived on Flores island, Indonesia.

The announcement last year detailing a single, partial skeleton caused a sensation when it was claimed to be a human species new to science.

Homo floresiensis, as it was called, was little more than a metre tall and lived 18,000 years ago.

Now, the same team tells Nature journal it has skeletal remains from at least nine of the "Hobbit-like" individuals.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40897000/jpg/_40897402_teeth_brown_203.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/8fw43

bendog
10-11-2005, 08:15 AM
The hopi and, I think, other tribes have folklore involving small persons of mysterious origins that lived similtaneously to their forebearers

ps a golden retriver sized rat? damn

Rohirrim
10-11-2005, 11:20 AM
They've found the remains of pygmy mammoths on the Santa Catalina islands off California.

Bronco_Beerslug
10-11-2005, 12:15 PM
Looks like Indonesia kicked out the anthropologists because they suggested the Hobbits could be another separate species.

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Tiny chinless wonders threaten anthropology rift

Tue Oct 11,12:06 PM ET

PARIS (AFP) - In a hole in a ground there lived some hobbits -- lots of them, apparently.

A tiny hominid whose discovery in a cave on an Indonesian island unleashed one of the fiercest debates in anthropology has suddenly been joined by several other sets of dwarf-sized beings.

At least nine other wee individuals lived in the cave, where thousands of years ago they skilfully butchered meat and handled fire, according to new findings.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20051011/capt.sge.qdk46.111005160221.photo00.photo.default-366x280.jpg?x=366&y=280&sig=yfTEp0dphubiaEgEjKXO2A--
This undated picture released by the scientific magazine Nature shows a skull found a year ago in Liang Bua cave(L) on the Indonesian island of Flores and a human skull (R).(AFP/Nature-HO/MJ Morwood)


The initial find at Liang Bua cave, reported almost exactly a year ago, became known as the Hobbit Hominid, after the pint-sized characters of J.R.R. Tolkien's stories.

Measuring just a metre or so (3.25 feet) high -- thus as tall as a chimpanzee -- and with a skull the size of a grapefruit, the strange creature lived around 18,000 years ago on the remote island of Flores.

The discoverers believed the Hobbit to be the smallest of the 10 species of Homo erectus, the primate that emerged from Africa about 2.5 million years ago and whose ultimate descendant is Homo sapiens, as anatomically modern man is called.

They honoured him with the formal name of Homo floresiensis, "Man of Flores," and in so doing unleashed tribal warfare among anthropologists.

In polite, scholarly tones that masked ruthlessness worthy of soccer hooligans, many of them attacked the notion that the Hobbit could be a separate human species.

After all, it would mean that Homo sapiens, who has been around for 150,000-200,000 years, would have shared the planet with other hominids much more recently than anyone had thought.

It would mean that the Hobbits were still knocking around after key events traditionally considered as proof that Homo sapiens was master of the planet -- the extinction of the Neanderthals, the arrival of modern humans in Australia and the first agriculture, a landmark event that transformed humans from hunter-gatherers into settlers.

To such critics, the one-off find proved nothing -- the skeleton could be that of a dwarf, the result of a genetic flaw in a tribe of Homo erectus or a disease called microcephaly, characterised by an abnormally small brain and head.

Now, though, Liang Bua has yielded more specimens, which adds a mighty weight to H. floresiensis' credentials.

The new fossils consist of the right elbow and two bones of the lower forearm of the first skeleton; the mandible of a second individual; and assorted other remains, including two tibiae, a femur, two radii, an ulna, a scapula, a vertebra and various toe and finger bones.

In all, bits and pieces from at least nine individuals have been found, and dating of the remains suggest some were alive as recently as 12,000 years ago.

All seem to have been the same size as the original Hobbit. In addition, the new bones show that these people, for all their short size, had relatively long arms and, unlike H. sapiens, had no chin.

The finds thus prove that the first Hobbit "is not just an aberrant or pathological individual, but is representative of a long-term population that was present during the interval (of) 95-74,000 to 12,000 years ago," the Australian-Indonesian team say.

But that's not all. Gently extracted from Liang Bua's floor were the remains of a dwarf elephant called a Stegodon, whose bones, marked by flints, showed that the hobbits were good at butchering animals.

There were also scarred bones and clusters of reddened, flame-cracked rocks, proof that the community was skillful at manipulating fire.

In a review of the study, Harvard University expert Daniel Lieberman said the new fossils backed the contention that the Hobbits were a previously undiscovered branch of the human family tree.

Still unclear, though, is where these tiny hominids came from.

One theory is that they evolved from Homo erectus by island dwarfing, a phenomenon that is well known in the animal kingdom.

Under this, a large species that arrives on an island where there is little food becomes progressively smaller in population numbers and in physical size in order to survive.

But this jibes with the discovery that the Hobbits were apparently good hunters and had mastered the means of keeping warm -- in other words, they had used human skills to buffer themselves against the pressures of natural selection.

"The finds from Liang Bua are not only astonishing, but also exciting because of the questions they raise," said Lieberman.

The study, lead-authored by Mike Morwood of the University of New England at Armidale, New South Wales, is published on Thursday in Nature, the British science journal.

In a news item on its website, Nature said Tuesday Indonesia had refused to renew the researchers' access to the cave.

The country's anthropological establishment, which has close ties to the government, bitterly opposes the theory that the Hobbits were a separate species, it quoted them as saying.

"My guess is that we will not work at Liang Bua again, this year or any other year," Morwood reportedly said.
http://tinyurl.com/8kose

bendog
10-11-2005, 12:33 PM
Intelligent design (-:

Rohirrim
10-11-2005, 01:19 PM
That's the great thing about ID; It can never be tested, ergo, it can cover everything. ;D

Bronco_Beerslug
10-11-2005, 07:22 PM
That's the great thing about ID; It can never be tested, ergo, it can cover everything. ;D
I've always wondered who created the creator.



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epicSocialism4tw
10-11-2005, 08:20 PM
I've always wondered who created the creator.



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You and nearly every other human and hobbit in history.

L.A. BRONCOS FAN
10-11-2005, 09:59 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40462000/jpg/_40462667_hflores_pa_203.jpg

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4224/evolutionfinal4dt.jpg

epicSocialism4tw
10-11-2005, 10:08 PM
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40462000/jpg/_40462667_hflores_pa_203.jpg

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/4224/evolutionfinal4dt.jpg

Fozzy the bear should have a response to that one. Wakka wakka wakka!

(rimshot)

Bronco_Beerslug
10-12-2005, 01:55 PM
You and nearly every other human and hobbit in history.

Yeah, but to the detriment of the human species throughout history, there have been many people who forced (or tried to) their answer to that question on the rest of us.

epicSocialism4tw
10-12-2005, 02:09 PM
Yeah, but to the detriment of the human species throughout history, there have been many people who forced (or tried to) their answer to that question on the rest of us.

Oh please...find your own opinion then. Then maybe we can have a civil discussion in here.

Bronco_Beerslug
10-12-2005, 02:40 PM
Oh please...find your own opinion then. Then maybe we can have a civil discussion in here.
You just quoted it. If I was part of the religious right I wouldn't want to try argue that point either.