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Atlas
10-08-2005, 09:40 AM
I didn't see this posted.

Great article. The future is looking rosey.

Win might go a long way
Long-term advantage for Broncos could be reflected come draft day

By Lee Rasizer, Rocky Mountain News
October 8, 2005

ENGLEWOOD - The Denver Broncos could double dip Sunday.

Beat Washington and they'll retain their spot atop the AFC West with a 4-1 record. At the same time, a side benefit is that one of the No. 1 picks they've stockpiled for next spring also would increase in value.


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Denver traded the 25th overall selection to the Redskins on April 19 in a predraft deal that netted Washington's first- and fourth-round picks in 2006 and a third-round pick this year.

Washington ended up taking Auburn quarterback Jason Campbell with the pick it acquired.

For the Broncos, the trade went beyond numbers. It morphed into a long-term fiscal plan to create something of a perfect storm this off-season.

Denver already has four first-day picks among its nine selections in April, and probably two more high compensatory picks still to come from losing starters Kenoy Kennedy and Reggie Hayward in free agency.

They've never used two No. 1 selections in team history but can pluck two top prospects if they so choose, or maneuver to stockpile more choices in the future.

The stockpile of picks comes at a time when the team's salary cap finally is free of some of the debilitating "dead money" that has resulted from poor free-agency decisions and unanticipated, career-ending injuries.

Denver was liable for $13 million for a half-dozen players released in 2003, and total outlays of about $16.4 million in 2004 and $11.8 million this season. Next year, the Broncos are only on the hook for less than $1 million for players already pared from the roster.

And while there's nearly $118 million committed to 2005 contracts - the total salary-cap allotment won't be known until at least December, but it could be about $90 million for 2006 - several deals on the books are options that have yet to be exercised, contracts that have reached thresholds to void or will be reconfigured or pared.

In other words, there's work to be done. Denver possibly will have to address the contracts of key players such as defensive stalwarts Gerard Warren, Trevor Pryce and Courtney Brown, along with left tackle Matt Lepsis and center Tom Nalen.

But the Broncos find themselves with more tools with which to work as they proceed financially and otherwise.

"There wasn't a conscious effort to make next year this windfall where we can build for the future, it just kind of happened," Broncos general manager Ted Sundquist said. "But any time you have leverage like that, it has to be a plus for you."

As for the possibility of having extra picks, nothing is cast in stone, with Sund- quist saying if the talent is there, the choices all could be made or perhaps rolled over to the subsequent year.

"Or," he said jokingly, "maybe we'll put them all together and trade for Herschel Walker."

Sundquist also downplayed the significance of next off-season but did say that the past several years, "roadblocks" seemed to interrupt the team's plans. At least for now, he said, those have been removed.

Among those impediments were the failed free-agent experiments with Daryl Gardener, Denard Walker, Kavika Pittman and Dale Carter, cutting ties with Brian Griese two years into his big-money deal, and the sudden losses of players such as Terrell Davis, Ed McCaffrey, John Mobley and Dan Neil.

The team painstakingly has tried to not repeat such failures where decision-making was involved.

It has spent the past several seasons trying to structure contracts with any potential character risks so that the cap won't be blown up if the player fails to pan out.

There also has been a conscious decision not to push too much money into seasons beyond the anticipated years of production by the players they sign and limit future options. The "dead money" situation also was emphasized.

"Part of our long-term plan was to bring that down and bring that into a situation where we felt comfortable," said Mike Bluem, who handles the salary cap as the team's director of football administration. "But every off-season has its challenges."

Added Sundquist: "I think above anything with regards to next year kind of falling into place was just having a philosophy and sticking with it."

The Broncos' planning normally begins about a year in advance of an upcoming season, and as far out as two or three years, when possible, though forecasting is limited because of fluid personnel and financial changes.

The trade with the Redskins was a prime example of such volatility.

Denver often dangles a No. 1 pick in trades. It just happened to find a willing partner this time around.

Bluem and Sundquist studied a breakdown of every trade that has been completed since 1995 and examined those deals to come up with an asking price in consultation with coach Mike Shanahan.

They projected about a half-dozen picks that figured to be available at No. 25 - and many were, in hindsight - and examined their immediate contribution against the long-range benefits of a trade.

"We got what we thought was right, and apparently the Redskins thought it was right, too," Bluem said. "Someone else could have a different take on it."

Many pundits believed Denver got the lopsided end of the deal, especially because the 2005 draft is leaner in prospects than what's projected for 2006, particularly in the first round.

The Redskins' thinking was, deal with the future when it comes.

The trade allowed Denver to use the cash it saved by not paying a No. 1 pick and budgeting it instead to bring Pryce back into the fold. At times this season, he has been a dominant force.

"It's always hard to strike deals. A lot of times there's talk. But no one pulls the trigger," Shanahan said. "But we feel good about it and Washington felt good about it. It's a win-win situation."

As for any future off-season bonanza, Shanahan is hesitant to predict one.

"I don't think along those terms until it happens," Shanahan said. "You've got an off-season to go through at the end of the season and you've got a procedure you go through every year. It's always nice to have a couple extra draft picks, and you're hoping when it's time, you get a couple good players out of it."

The Redskins have bucked some conventional thinking once, simply by starting the season fast. Many prognosticators figured them for one of the league's bottom dwellers. But projecting their immediate future didn't provide impetus on a trade from Denver's vantage point.

Bluem follows the Redskins periodically so he can gauge where their traded first-round pick might potentially fall in terms of budgeting. For planning purposes only, both top picks have been averaged out to a 10th and 25th pick to get a sense of what kind of cash outlay will be needed.

The collective bargaining agreement is set to expire after the 2007 season, and while talks have been ongoing to negotiate an extension, that could alter the landscape.

The thinking in the Broncos organization is more entrenched.

The average age on the Broncos roster is about 27, so an infusion of youth could help. But the team generally has relied on veteran players under Shanahan. Rebuilding isn't a mind-set the organization generally embraces. So just because Denver has more picks possibly at its disposal doesn't mean younger players will be the rage.

Sundquist, for one, won't be standing on his chair Sunday rooting against the Redskins for any reason other than he's a Broncos employee.

"From a business standpoint, yeah, you'd like it to be a high pick," he said. "But they kind of control that."

Atlas
10-08-2005, 09:46 AM
Can we come to the conclusion that this offseason might have been Shanny's best since he came here in 1995?

He should be GM of the year for what he has done.

-Slap-
10-08-2005, 09:46 AM
As for the possibility of having extra picks, nothing is cast in stone, with Sundquist saying if the talent is there, the choices all could be made or perhaps rolled over to the subsequent year.

"Or," he said jokingly, "maybe we'll put them all together and trade for Herschel Walker."

Check out the Mike Lynn blast from out of left field.

rofl

Atlas
10-08-2005, 09:48 AM
Check out the Mike Lynn blast from out of left field.

rofl

Trade up half the draft to get Desmond Howard like the Skins did. How did that work out??

Drafting first round busts are bad enough. Trading up to draft a first round bust must really suck!!

TheChamp247
10-08-2005, 10:15 AM
what shannahan has done this offseason has completly scilenced his critics (i.e. ESPN) who are now, as expected around here, praising denver and mike. Shannahan is still the mastermind of the nfl

Broncoman13
10-08-2005, 10:46 AM
I've said this in the past... I wouldn't be the least bit suprised if we traded a pick or two in order to stockpile more the following year. You look at a team like the Pats. They've been successful with this. What it comes down to is identifying a player that you like and actually drafting him where he's slotted. Perhaps 15-20 spots higher. A prime example would be Darius Watts in 04. Most had him slotted as a 2nd day pick. Normally you hear stories about a team that "would have" taken a player had such and such team not taken them there. There were no such reports about Watts. We could have used that 2nd round pick on a Randy Starks or Dockett, both of which were considered first round picks. Then with our third you go after your Darrius Watts. Sure hindsight is 20/20 but a lot comes down to homework and having a better feel for where a player will be drafted. I don't think anybody can argue that we've reached on several players in the Shannahan era. I think this year Shanny took a look at the CB's and decided early that Darrent Williams was the guy he wanted. He probably figured he would be around in the 2nd so took the risk. Smart move, especially in hindsight!

Perhaps next year we could see a guy like Reggie McNeal as a QB to groom. Knowing that he probably won't carry a first round grade we could (based on this articles projection) deal that 25th pick for a future first and a current 2nd...then draft the player (McNeal) you wanted to begin with. I may be rambling here, but the Pats have done this in the past and they've been successful with it!

Bob's your Information Minister
10-08-2005, 10:48 AM
Can we come to the conclusion that this offseason might have been Shanny's best since he came here in 1995?

He should be GM of the year for what he has done.

Don't start sucking each other's dicks just yet. You've been 3-1 before.

Broncoman13
10-08-2005, 10:48 AM
what shannahan has done this offseason has completly scilenced his critics (i.e. ESPN) who are now, as expected around here, praising denver and mike. Shannahan is still the mastermind of the nfl


As far as the "Plan" this year, he's a no brainer!!! There were a few that didn't like the plan but that was mainly b/c of Ian Gold. Very few inside the circle were dissatisfied with the Browncos or bringing Trevor back!

Bob's your Information Minister
10-08-2005, 10:48 AM
what shannahan has done this offseason has completly scilenced his critics (i.e. ESPN) who are now, as expected around here, praising denver and mike. Shannahan is still the mastermind of the nfl

LMAO! Way too early to be making that kind of statement.

theodnixon
10-08-2005, 11:04 AM
LMAO! Way too early to be making that kind of statement.

that is true, but it has been a while before we look ahead and see light in the off season. I believe we can rationally optimistic this.

Kaylore
10-08-2005, 11:12 AM
I could see as trade one of our firsts for a proven guard or something like that.

TotallyScrewed
10-08-2005, 11:19 AM
LMAO! Way too early to be making that kind of statement.

And I outta know says the KING of the waaayyy too early and equally false prognosticators...Bob

TotallyScrewed
10-08-2005, 11:25 AM
I could see as trade one of our firsts for a proven guard or something like that.

Boy, that guard had better be special to get first round material in a deep draft. I hope that a "special" player at the guard or any of the interior positions is available for second or third round pickdom. Like others, I can see this falling back out of the first round to be a financial and prudent trend.

SoCalBronco
10-08-2005, 11:37 AM
Don't start sucking each other's dicks just yet. You've been 3-1 before.

We could end up 9-7 or 8-8 and Atlas's statement can still be true. We are not talking about the record of the team, we are talking about the quality of acquisitions and how the team is positioned next offseason to get better. Darrent Williams, Domonique Foxworth and the Browncos could continue to play well all season but because of other factors like an extremely tough December (no matter how good you are) and the fact that we always drop 2 games a year to scrubs no matter what, may mean that we could end up just a tad above .500, but that would not necessarily mean the statements above are untrue and would certainly have no bearing on the issue of how we have set ourselves up for the upcoming offseason.

Tredici
10-08-2005, 11:50 AM
Don't start sucking each other's dicks just yet. You've been 3-1 before.

Does it make anyone else feel slightly dirty and voyueristic when Bob starts posting his pastime hobby?

Bob's your Information Minister
10-08-2005, 11:52 AM
Does it make anyone else feel slightly dirty and voyueristic when Bob starts posting his pastime hobby?

It's a pulp fiction quote.

Hercules Rockefeller
10-08-2005, 11:54 AM
Like others, I can see this falling back out of the first round to be a financial and prudent trend.

There is no financial incentive to drop one of the picks out of the 1st round. You're only going to get a 2nd round pick signed to a 4-year deal. 1st round picks are going to get a minimum of 5 years, with some even being willing to sign for 6 or 7.

DBroncos4life
10-08-2005, 11:58 AM
Well it looks like we didn't sign the wrong half of the worst rushing D in the NFL last year, but it does look like KC signed the wrong half of the number 2 passing D in the nfl. ;D


But it is still pretty early.

Kaylore
10-08-2005, 12:01 PM
Boy, that guard had better be special to get first round material in a deep draft. I hope that a "special" player at the guard or any of the interior positions is available for second or third round pickdom. Like others, I can see this falling back out of the first round to be a financial and prudent trend.
I know it seems high, but if Nalen retires and Hamilton moves to Center, we'll need a killer interior to keep our run game going.

Billy Clyde Puckett
10-08-2005, 12:03 PM
Perhaps next year we could see a guy like Reggie McNeal as a QB to groom. Knowing that he probably won't carry a first round grade we could (based on this articles projection) deal that 25th pick for a future first and a current 2nd...then draft the player (McNeal) you wanted to begin with. I may be rambling here, but the Pats have done this in the past and they've been successful with it!

From What I have seen so far, I can't see McNeal as a starting NFL QB, But I will see him today and he could change my mind.

orange crusher
10-08-2005, 12:10 PM
It's going to be a real interesting offseason again with the contract situations of Pryce, Warren, Brown, Lepsis and Nalen. However, I'm enjoying this season too much to start thinking about that. The Broncos did a great job this last offseason at adding low risk high potential players. When you look at the cap situation prior to the offseason, it was really brilliant maneuvering to get done what they did.

TotallyScrewed
10-08-2005, 12:12 PM
Oh. I 100% agree Kaylore, O-line needs to be a priority. I just hope that Denver does waste a pick or picks on players they could've gotten in the second or third. If they do take a first rounder, I hope that he is quick to start and dominant for many years. I, too, foresee the departure of Tom Nalen come the end of the season. Where they needed a strong replacement for Dan Neal, they will soon need TWO strong replacements. And as most know I'm not especially a Ben Hamilton fan, so I think the entire interior O-line is in bad shape. I think the current O-line is the achilles heal of this team.

Kaylore
10-08-2005, 12:18 PM
Ben Hamilton has been great. Most of the runs we have success at are on the left side with Hamilton working with Nalen and sometimes Lepsis. He's the best at cosistantly getting to the second level.

Billy Clyde Puckett
10-08-2005, 12:37 PM
Ben Hamilton has been great. Most of the runs we have success at are on the left side with Hamilton working with Nalen and sometimes Lepsis. He's the best at cosistantly getting to the second level.

Rep - glad someone else has their eyes open

Atlas
10-08-2005, 11:36 PM
Rep - glad someone else has their eyes open

Denver's line is good. People bitch and whine about the line but they never bring up the fact Denver is one of the best running teams in the league.

watermock
10-08-2005, 11:47 PM
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/image.php?u=2284&dateline=1127872768

Shut up BeakHead.

The stone cold fact is Denver went into this year with about 2.5 million to deal with everything...some players moved salary back, but selling our #1 allowed us to make a decent offer to Pryce.

Also, as was stated, we will get a couple picks for Hayward and Kenoy...

We wipe all kinds of money off the books next year...The number of free agent moves we made with virtually zero money was astounding to say the least...

We have a bonanza of draft picks...They are all over the place...We have a #4 from Washington along with their #1, we will get two comp picks, We are going to have 7 picks in the first four rounds. At least.

But who cares for now? The real point is we will have much more money under the cap...not a ton...but more than we have had for several years from what several have said...alot of dead money comes off the books...

Odysseus
10-08-2005, 11:58 PM
We could end up 9-7 or 8-8 and Atlas's statement can still be true.

Absolutely. The fans are a reflection of the team. This team was deeply divided after last years debacle with the Colts and with good cause.

The whole off season was miserable as people got stuck on stupid about defense or offense. The draft comes and this places launchs a WTF tirade from hades about picking up three good CB and finally fixing Special Teams.

Gold comes back and then some of the smartest guys on this board attack him. Gold is doing great but the haters still hem and haw rightfully because it's still early in the season.

Browncos come here and some of the smartest guys on this board are attacking them about money, performance, dedication, and heart. These guys IMHO have been the perfect fit from the start. My biggest hope is we can find a way to keep them all next year.

Right now the catch phrases are the OL, Plummer's leash, and Jason Elam.

I really like the team getting smart with their money but more importantly I like the quality of guys we are getting for the price.

watermock
10-09-2005, 01:30 AM
First, I never was against the Gold signing...I just thought we might of overpaid...It's Slappy that hates the guy when his crown prince Peirce was cut and I don't think anyone even picked him up.

Second, I always liked the DL moves...I thought they were brilliant for the cost/reward mix.

If they sucked, we didn't have squat invested in signing bonus....

We also managed to somehow keep Pryce...Now all the dimwit analysts are starting to slowly modify their positions...It will take a couple more wins, but it's rather amusing...

orinjkrush
10-09-2005, 08:07 AM
this maybe a totally ridiculous question...could there be advantages to trading both first round picks for 4 or more second round picks next year in terms of salary and talent? i only counted 20 out of 53 active roster players as denver draft picks. the rest came from elsewhere. maybe the drop off in talent would be made by having so many more picks?

ND Bronco Fan
10-09-2005, 08:50 AM
Boy, that guard had better be special to get first round material in a deep draft. I hope that a "special" player at the guard or any of the interior positions is available for second or third round pickdom. Like others, I can see this falling back out of the first round to be a financial and prudent trend.

Greg Eslinger, Minnesota............My official "please draft player" Probably a late second or third round pick. Has stated to base his game off watching Ben Hamilton. Plays center on one of the best running games in college football, a real joy to watch pull from the center position and get around the corner and at 285 or so pounds could come in and contribute at guard pretty quickly, fits our mold of lineman to a T.

Drek
10-09-2005, 09:23 AM
at 285 or so pounds could come in and contribute at guard pretty quickly, fits our mold of lineman to a T. You think a lineman at 285 is going to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder? He better be able to throw about 30+ reps of 225 up as well as having some mean squat numbers, or else he'll be a second day pick. Small OLs = late rounders, no matter how well they do in college.

I also don't like "our mold" for OLs. The draft is full of atheltic big guys, Foster is an example of this. Draft OL high and often and we can keep >300 pounders who can move and block downfield like we want.

I'm not cool with trading a first for an OL, even a great tackle, you can always sign OLs in free agency because they're so expensive and teams don't even want to resign their own guys. Instead of trading a pick and then paying someone tons of money lets just focus our FA money on it.

My personal preference: Sign a good tackle, maybe Lepsis. Draft an OG and a C in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to be the future of the interior (we'll be able to get top 5 talent at each positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds), then add depth with a couple veterans for the '06 season before we throw the young guys into the fire.

If we somehow get an early enough pick to take D'Brickshaw Ferguson we don't need to sign an OT, he can start from day 1 for me.

Thats what I'd do for the OL in '06. Short of getting Ferguson I want our first rounders spent on offensive weapons or DL help.

ND Bronco Fan
10-09-2005, 09:58 AM
[HTML]You think a lineman at 285 is going to be a 2nd or 3rd rounder? He better be able to throw about 30+ reps of 225 up as well as having some mean squat numbers, or else he'll be a second day pick. Small OLs = late rounders, no matter how well they do in college.

Draft an OG and a C in the 2nd or 3rd rounds to be the future of the interior (we'll be able to get top 5 talent at each positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds), then add depth with a couple veterans for the '06 season before we throw the young guys into the fire.


Fact is the difference between a college player staying at 285 and being mobile and putting on 15 pounds to play interior line is not all that big of a deal.

You contradict your all knowing statement about my OPINION of a lineman that could potentially play well in our system and I am betting you have not even seen him play so your opinion based on numbers alone is pretty weak.

FACT is Eslinger is the top rated Senior Center in the nation this year and you said yourself that we'd be able to get top 5 talent at each position and round two and three so.............basically you said the same thing as me but I was in left field with my statement, got it. Thanks

Hercules Rockefeller
10-09-2005, 10:22 AM
could there be advantages to trading both first round picks for 4 or more second round picks next year in terms of salary and talent?

No, just look at Shanahan's history of 2nd round picks. Not one has been signed to an extension after his initial contract was up. Also Shanahan's shown that he is well above average when it comes to drafting in the 1st round, especially relative to where Denver picks in the round.

-Slap-
10-09-2005, 10:42 AM
First, I never was against the Gold signing...I just thought we might of overpaid...It's Slappy that hates the guy when his crown prince Peirce was cut and I don't think anyone even picked him up.

I know Mock, you wanted to use that pick on Justin Fargas because he's a scrawny queer like you.

Are you still pissed off that we took George Foster instead of Kwame Harris, you drunken old fool? The Niners are about to bench that skinny piece of ****.

What's the facsination with finesse players anyway, Mock? Do the more rugged ones make you feel nervous about something?

-Slap-
10-09-2005, 10:53 AM
Hey, Waterdrunk. Drop that picture of your kittens and pull up your boxers.

Here's a great post of yours. You smack George Foster and kiss Kyle Boller's ass in the same breath.

11-10-2003, 03:01 PM #10
watermock
Delta Alumni

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 46,150

I sure would trade Boller for Foster right now.....

One pick away, and we didn't even want him....

Nice eye for talent, asshole. Why don't you concentrate on drooling over teenage girls, instead?

-Slap-
10-09-2005, 11:07 AM
Here's another nice post, Boozey. Goddamn, I sure wish you were running our team.

10-23-2003, 09:53 AM #16
watermock
Delta Alumni

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 46,150

Why shouldn't I be?

I draft Kwami Harris, then Peterson, then Ragone or Fargas.

All three of these at least deserve a roster spot.

Kwame Harris - About to get benched for being a skinny, finesse blocking queer.

Kenny Peterson - Injury prone DE for the Packers. Zero sacks in his career.

Dave Ragone - Can't see any PT, despite playing behind the terribly erratic David Carr.

Justin Fargas - Huggy Bear's scrawny injury prone kid has 77 carries in his career. Two this season for four yards.

Great eye for talent, you mouthy ****ing drunk. Too bad you can't afford cable. Then you could misjudge a wider range of players.

-Slap-
10-09-2005, 11:19 AM
More wisdom.

10-23-2003, 09:58 AM #20
watermock
Delta Alumni

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 46,150

YOur full of crap as usual.

At least Harris is learning the position. Foster is so bad he can't even make the active roster. Got it yet?

Ragone is hidden in Houston as trade bait, you really can't make an opinion, but gosh darn...who are we starting this week?

We are calling 911 for J.J. for gods sake. Shut up.

EVERYONE is an injury waiting to happen.

Fargas ISN'T injured.

-Slap-
10-09-2005, 11:20 AM
Just one more.

10-23-2003, 10:50 AM #26
watermock
Delta Alumni

Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 46,150

If they were worth a crap they would make the active roster.

I only liked one player out of the draft, Madise.

Guess what...he was ACTIVE last week.

He was a rookie fool, but he was active.

Gotta give it up, Mock. You were on the Madise bandwagon way before everybody.