Skin Fans: Tell me why you think your defense can shut down our running game

[footstepsfrom#27]

The key to Washington winning this game is shutting down Denver's running game and forcing Jake Plummer to pass in hopes that he will throw some interceptions. If Denver runs the ball they win this game. I don't think many Skns fans would dispute that. The Skins have not beaten a team that finished the year (that same year) above .500 on the road since November 2002, and this will be one of ther their stiffest tests. Denver is no bargain at home.

From 2003 until now...the stretch I'm looking at because the players were mostly the same on offense, our running game has been effectively shut down very few times. In looking back over these games I noticed something interesting. If you factor out games in which the Broncos got far behind early and abandoned their running game, (Kansas City last year for example), as well as games in which we essentially had no feature back carrying the ball; ie...during the failed Quentin Griffin experiment (though Q did have some success also), only four teams have actually shut our running game down. By "shutting down" I mean that the run should have been used but was not a viable weapon because we couldn't move the ball on the ground. Holding them to 120 yards doens't count as "shutting them down". San Diego held the Broncos to under a hundred yards this year but I did not include that because both Anderson and Bell were hurt for that game, even though MIke played and was ineffective. Denver's running game has only been "shut down" a total of four times in the last 35 games, by Pittsburgh and Baltimore in 2003, San Diego in 2004 and Miami this year. Those are four of the best run defenses in the NFL. The Miami game is also an aberation, because Anderson got hurt early in the game. However because Tatum Bell was available I included them in this list of teams that shut us down. I think Shanny failed to use Bell properly but that's beside the point. Notice something about these three games that all three opponents have in common: the size of their interior defensive line, especially at the NT position.

Oct 12/2003 Pittsburgh/Casey Hampton 6'1" 325...18 carries/77 yards/4.3 ypc...but Rod Smith gained 26 yards on one carry.

Oct 26/2003 Baltimore/Ma'ake Kemoeatu 6'5" 350...27 carries/104 yards/3.9 ypc...Portis had 22 for 86, well under his avg.

Dec 5/2003, San Diego/Jamall Williams, 6'3", 348

Sept 11/2005 Miami/Keith Traylor 6'2" 340

In a nutshell the only teams that have effectively eliminated Denver's running game as a viable weapon when it was appropriate for the run to be used are Pittsburgh, Baltimore, San Diego and Miami and all four have large run stuffing DT/NT guys that seem to give our interior O-Line trouble. It's also true that Denver has run very well on teams that do have players that fit that mold, the obvious example being the Raiders. So it isn't just about size, but talent as well. The point however, is that no team without a large and talented interior DT or NT has shut this running game down in the last two seasons. Some teams that have large and talented NT's or DT's have still not shut them down.

The queston is this: Washington's best interior D-linemen is Cornelius Griffin, who is average size by NFL standards for a defensive tackle, at 6'3" 300. He is also very good. His bio on the Skins site notes:

2004: In his first season in Washington, Griffin was a dominant force on the inside. He started 15 games and recorded a career-high 96 tackles and led the team with 15 tackles for a loss. He was also tied for the team lead with six sacks. He was named a fourth alternate for the Pro Bowl.

The question is this: Can Washington do what no other NFL team has done against the current Denver offense? Can they shut down this running game without a massive interior DT or NT? Doing so will be key to forcing Jake Plumer to pass.

Give me your thoughts...and if you think the Skins can do what nobody else has done, tell me why, not "our defense is ranked...", or "Gibbs is a better coach...", etc...

I want hard answers on how the Skins without a massive interior lineman can do what no other team without that asset has been able to do in the Jake Plummer era.

As a side note, I also looked at Jake Plummer's passing performances in games where the Denver offense was unable, for whatever reason to run. Here are his numbers from those games:

Detroit- 25/34, 277 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INTs
Jacksonville- 25/39, 250 yards, 0 TD's, 0 INTs
San Diego- 25/36, 294 yards, 2 TD's, 0 INTs
Tampa Bay- 13/31, 138, 1 TD, 0 INTs
Atlanta- 31/55, 499 yards, 4 TD's, 3 TDs
San Diego- 16/40, 263, 0 TDs, 4 INTs
Miami- 22/48, 251, 0 TDs, 1 INT

Totals: 157/283, 1,969 yards, 55.4%, 9 TD's, 8 INTs

Obviously Jake's had his worst games when the Broncos can't run, however in 4 of these games he did not throw an INT and had only 1 in another, leaving 7 of his 8 INT's for only two games, and in one of those two games he threw more TD's than INT's while racking up a 500 yard game. So the point here is this; stopping the run and forcing Jake to pass is a great game plan. Two problems; 1) the Skins do not have a massive inside defensive lineman, and 2) when Jake has been forced to throw after the Denver run game stalls, in only 2 out of 7 games has he been the proverbial turnover machine that defenses are hoping for.

[Broncoman13]

The key to Washington winning this game is shutting down Denver's running game and forcing Jake Plummer to pass in hopes that he will throw some interceptions. If Denver runs the ball they win this game. I don't think many Skns fans would dispute that. The Skins have not beaten a team that finished the year (that same year) above .500 on the road since November 2002, and this will be one of ther their stiffest tests. Denver is no bargain at home.




Don't know if you robbed this from a website or what... if you did shame on you for no posting a link! Otherwise, rep for one helluva post!

[RedskinBronco]

footsteps, you basically answered what you asked. No one ever runs on the Redskins. If the Broncos somehow get it done, the Redskins will lose pretty big. Jake will have to win this game and I think he'll do enough to put the broncos on top.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Don't know if you robbed this from a website or what... if you did shame on you for no posting a link! Otherwise, rep for one helluva post!
Nope...wife's at her moms with the kids...lots of time to do...not much of anything! Letterman + OM...LOL

[footstepsfrom#27]

footsteps, you basically answered what you asked. No one ever runs on the Redskins. If the Broncos somehow get it done, the Redskins will lose pretty big. Jake will have to win this game and I think he'll do enough to put the broncos on top.
You're not answering the question I asked. Can you?

[WarriorSpirit]

Griffin is a dominant lineman and the rest, Salavea, Wynn and Daniels are primarily run stoppers. That is the strength of our line, they are all big bodied, stay at home defenders. The weakness is pass rush, other than Griff, who had 6 sacks last year and 1 so far this year, we don't get a lot of pressure from the line. We used a lot of blitzes to get pressure last year but we haven't been doing that this season. I'm not sure why but that is our only complaint about our Defense this year.
This game is a classic strength against strength type game and that is why I think it will be close.

[RedskinBronco]

You're not answering the question I asked. Can you?


Well the Redskins had the active streak for most games without giving up 100 yds rushing (7). Shaun Alexander didn't get 100 yds but the seahawks did. He didnt do much at all in fact. He had a 30 yd run because someone missed a tackle which is rare with the skins. It might have been the rookie Carlos Rogers. I was at the game so I can tell you Alexander was stuffed pretty good. He was stopped for 1 or 2 yd gains the whole day except for that 30 yarder and a couple of decent 7-10 yd runs. I didn't think the skins played their best defensive game. In fact it might have been their worse in a long time, which is saying a lot because they weren't really bad at all. The seahawks basically started throwing the whole time. In fact Hasselbeck 3 stepped dropped us to death. Like I said, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell won't run too well on sunday. It's not them, it's just the skins are ridiculous at stopping the run. They want you in 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 10 all game long. That;s what makes them effective. Like I said, Plummer will have to beat them and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think plummer is playing well enough to do so. With the Denver defense playing like it is, all plummer has to do is put up about 17 pts. Its not an easy task against the skins, but I think they'll get it.

[SkinsandTerps]

Personally, I cant predict if the Broncos will finish above .500 this season.

But for an answer about how the Redskins can possibly stiffle the rushing attack of the Broncos, from my point of view :

The Redskins have a very disciplined Defense, the players compliment each other on the field. The LBs all have speed and tackling ability, same with the DBs.

The Redskins havent given up a hundred yards to a rusher in 9 straight games, even with the loss of Pierce and Smoot (who was solid in run support), and only 3 times in the last 20 games (A healthy Jamal Lewis, A healthy Bettis, and Rudi Johnson). Regardless of whether the game was played at home or the road. This D stops the run. In the games where the Redskins have given up 100 yds to a rusher, they have lost. Scores where 10-7,10-7, and 16-7. Still not a blowout by any means.

I am not saying that the Broncos cant have a hundred yard rusher (although it is unlikely), I am saying that it wont be the same as facing the Jags who are 30th in the league against the rush, or the pitiful Chiefs D who has never been able to stop the run.

Anderson and Bell had great games against those defenses. But they are not run stopping teams to begin with. Miami is, San Diego is.

I am hoping, for and expect, a tough, gritty game.

Here's to an injury free game. Win or lose. I will be here Sunday night or Monday morning (usually I am either celebrating or drowning my sorrows, so most likely Monday).

[SkinsandTerps]

footsteps, you basically answered what you asked. No one ever runs on the Redskins. If the Broncos somehow get it done, the Redskins will lose pretty big. Jake will have to win this game and I think he'll do enough to put the broncos on top.

Like I stated in my post, the Redskins even with giving up a 100 yds to a rusher, havent lost by more than 9 points.

So I wouldnt expect the Redskins to lose big regardless.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Griffin is a dominant lineman and the rest, Salavea, Wynn and Daniels are primarily run stoppers. That is the strength of our line, they are all big bodied, stay at home defenders. The weakness is pass rush, other than Griff, who had 6 sacks last year and 1 so far this year, we don't get a lot of pressure from the line. We used a lot of blitzes to get pressure last year but we haven't been doing that this season. I'm not sure why but that is our only complaint about our Defense this year.
This game is a classic strength against strength type game and that is why I think it will be close.
By "big bodies" I expect to see 330 pounders, but your D-Line averages 293 lbs per man, making them one of the few lines we will see this year that we actually have a size advantage against (299-293). Again...you're not answering my question. Only teams with big interior run stuffers, not small to medium sized guys...have been able to shut down this running game. What does Washington have that makes you think they will be the only team to break that trend?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Well the Redskins had the active streak for most games without giving up 100 yds rushing (7). Shaun Alexander didn't get 100 yds but the seahawks did. He didnt do much at all in fact. He had a 30 yd run because someone missed a tackle which is rare with the skins. It might have been the rookie Carlos Rogers. I was at the game so I can tell you Alexander was stuffed pretty good. He was stopped for 1 or 2 yd gains the whole day except for that 30 yarder and a couple of decent 7-10 yd runs. I didn't think the skins played their best defensive game. In fact it might have been their worse in a long time, which is saying a lot because they weren't really bad at all. The seahawks basically started throwing the whole time. In fact Hasselbeck 3 stepped dropped us to death. Like I said, Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell won't run too well on sunday. It's not them, it's just the skins are ridiculous at stopping the run. They want you in 3rd and 7 or 3rd and 10 all game long. That;s what makes them effective. Like I said, Plummer will have to beat them and I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think plummer is playing well enough to do so. With the Denver defense playing like it is, all plummer has to do is put up about 17 pts. Its not an easy task against the skins, but I think they'll get it.
All that is fine but you aren't playing Seattle are you? You're playing the team that leads the NFL in rushing during the last 10 years. The only defenses that have shut their run down have massive interior defensive tackles. Not all those teams have done so either (Jacksonville) but the ones who have shut them down have big slabs of beef in the middle. Washington doesn't. So why do you think...other than..."we shut down Seattle"...etc...that you will break this trend?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Personally, I cant predict if the Broncos will finish above .500 this season.

But for an answer about how the Redskins can possibly stiffle the rushing attack of the Broncos, from my point of view :

The Redskins have a very disciplined Defense, the players compliment each other on the field. The LBs all have speed and tackling ability, same with the DBs.

The Redskins havent given up a hundred yards to a rusher in 9 straight games, even with the loss of Pierce and Smoot (who was solid in run support), and only 3 times in the last 20 games (A healthy Jamal Lewis, A healthy Bettis, and Rudi Johnson). Regardless of whether the game was played at home or the road. This D stops the run. In the games where the Redskins have given up 100 yds to a rusher, they have lost. Scores where 10-7,10-7, and 16-7. Still not a blowout by any means.
The problem with the answers I'm getting here are that they don't take into consideration that this team doesn't run like other teams. Our blocking schemes are different, our style is different, our entire philosophy on running the ball is different. Only one kind of defense has stopped this running game, and you don't have that kind of defense. I think many of the other defenses we played were disciplined, had LB's with speed, etc...but that didn't matter. Why do you think the Skins will be different when they don't have a big interior line?

[ludo21]

Whats amazing footsteps is you point out all the lines and Defenses that stopped us. BUT just last game we dominated Henderson and Stroud!! Easily the best 1-2 combo of Dt's in the league, that is the main reason im pumped to go against this "so called" run stuffing Defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Like I stated in my post, the Redskins even with giving up a 100 yds to a rusher, havent lost by more than 9 points.

So I wouldnt expect the Redskins to lose big regardless.
Fine...But can you answer the original question I asked?

[2KBack]

They've answered it, disciplined gap control.

[RedskinBronco]

All that is fine but you aren't playing Seattle are you? You're playing the team that leads the NFL in rushing during the last 10 years. The only defenses that have shut their run down have massive interior defensive tackles. Not all those teams have done so either (Jacksonville) but the ones who have shut them down have big slabs of beef in the middle. Washington doesn't. So why do you think...other than..."we shut down Seattle"...etc...that you will break this trend?


I guess we'll have to see. I watch both teams closely and I think the Redskins will neutralize Anderson and Bell. This defense is a lot better than you're imagining. Any game can be different than the norm, but the Redskins D is pretty darn consistent. I've watched many Denver games and there are teams that stop the run against the broncos. Remember, that's what is the root of the problem in Denver. Can Jake actually play mistake free and create some offense when the team needs it? We've been arguing about it for 2 yrs running now. Now so far this year, the Denver D has been ridiculous (other than the miami game) and that seems to take pressure of Jake. He no longer has to try and do too much. With that D, just play mistake free and chances are you win. I can't really tell you much more. I guess just watch the game. I could be wrong. Nothing is guaranteed, but the skins are tougher than you think. I watch both teams all the time and I have a pretty good idea as to who can do what against the other. Of course Im no expert, but Im just posting based on what I see.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Whats amazing footsteps is you point out all the lines and Defenses that stopped us. BUT just last game we dominated Henderson and Stroud!! Easily the best 1-2 combo of Dt's in the league, that is the main reason im pumped to go against this "so called" run stuffing Defense.
That's correct, which is why I noted that having big run stuffers doesn't neccessarily garantee success against this running game, but all those teams that have had success had big interior linemen. Washington will actually be one of the smaller D-lines we face this year.

[SkinsandTerps]

The problem with the answers I'm getting here are that they don't take into consideration that this team doesn't run like other teams. Our blocking schemes are different, our style is different, our entire philosophy on running the ball is different. Only one kind of defense has stopped this running game, and you don't have that kind of defense. I think many of the other defenses we played were disciplined, had LB's with speed, etc...but that didn't matter. Why do you think the Skins will be different when they don't have a big interior line?

So now I have a question,
Who do you think stops the run Better than the Redskins ?

[Odysseus]

I doubt any Denver running back breaks 100 yards but the combined force of Anderson, Bell, and Dayne most probably will. The put up nearly 200 yards on a good Jaguars defense. This still doesn't mean a win for Denver.

The first QB to get knocked off his pins loses. If Redskins can't stop Jake on the bootleg they are going to get chewed up. If Broncos can't protect the post and force Brunell into throwing some bad balls they are going to lose. It will come down to TOP and turnovers.

On paper these teams are close but if our fans kick in the Broncos could be suddenly lauded as more than what they are kind of like what's going on with San Diego. Personally I hope the Broncos never get press accolades...only jewely and trophys.

[ludo21]

That's correct, which is why I noted that having big run stuffers doesn't neccessarily garantee success against this running game, but all those teams that have had success had big interior linemen. Washington will actually be one of the smaller D-lines we face this year.


They are disciplined, which will help them. But being disciplined will not help if our OL keeps gettng a consistent push and getting to the next level of the LB's. Should be fun for sure.

[SkinsandTerps]

Fine...But can you answer the original question I asked?

That response wasnt to you. It was for RedskinBronco.

I think I answered your question, and now I have posted one for you.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I guess we'll have to see. I watch both teams closely and I think the Redskins will neutralize Anderson and Bell. This defense is a lot better than you're imagining. Any game can be different than the norm, but the Redskins D is pretty darn consistent. I've watched many Denver games and there are teams that stop the run against the broncos.
If you are answering my question by disputing my data, I invite you to check out each and every game and its rushing stats over the last two years going back to the beginning of 2003, because that is what I did before I posted this. The teams you saw shut them down are already listed, along with the ones that shut them down when it was possible for Denver to either continue to run or we had a feature back in the game.
Remember, that's what is the root of the problem in Denver. Can Jake actually play mistake free and create some offense when the team needs it? We've been arguing about it for 2 yrs running now. Now so far this year, the Denver D has been ridiculous (other than the miami game) and that seems to take pressure of Jake. He no longer has to try and do too much. With that D, just play mistake free and chances are you win. I can't really tell you much more. I guess just watch the game. I could be wrong. Nothing is guaranteed, but the skins are tougher than you think. I watch both teams all the time and I have a pretty good idea as to who can do what against the other. Of course Im no expert, but Im just posting based on what I see.
I noted in the original post that Jake has had only 2 out of 7 games where he turned the ball over a lot, and in one of those he threw over 50 times for almost 500 yards and threw 4 TD's to go with the 3 picks. So the question about wheter Jake can "catually play mistake free and create some offense", has essentially been answered by these past performances. Plummer has had more good games than bad when Denver's run has been stopped.

[footstepsfrom#27]

So now I have a question,
Who do you think stops the run Better than the Redskins ?
Against this offense? I explained that already...teams like Baltimore, San Diego, Miami and Pittsburgh...all who have big interior linemen.

It's all about matchups. The Skins don't match up well against this running game.

[2KBack]

Against this offense? I explained that already...teams like Baltimore, San Diego, Miami and Pittsburgh...all who have big interior linemen.

It's all about matchups. The Skins don't match up well against this running game.

I really don't see how you can say that without Denver having ever faced this Defense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

That response wasnt to you. It was for RedskinBronco.

I think I answered your question, and now I have posted one for you.
Ok...lets see what you answered:

But for an answer about how the Redskins can possibly stiffle the rushing attack of the Broncos, from my point of view :

The Redskins have a very disciplined Defense, the players compliment each other on the field. The LBs all have speed and tackling ability, same with the DBs.

The Redskins havent given up a hundred yards to a rusher in 9 straight games, even with the loss of Pierce and Smoot (who was solid in run support), and only 3 times in the last 20 games (A healthy Jamal Lewis, A healthy Bettis, and Rudi Johnson). Regardless of whether the game was played at home or the road. This D stops the run. In the games where the Redskins have given up 100 yds to a rusher, they have lost. Scores where 10-7,10-7, and 16-7. Still not a blowout by any means.

I am not saying that the Broncos cant have a hundred yard rusher (although it is unlikely), I am saying that it wont be the same as facing the Jags who are 30th in the league against the rush, or the pitiful Chiefs D who has never been able to stop the run.

Anderson and Bell had great games against those defenses. But they are not run stopping teams to begin with. Miami is, San Diego is.
Your answer consists of three things:

1) Washington has a disciplined defense
2) Washington hasn't given up a 100 day to another runner in 9 games (I think it's actually 8 games)
3) Washington has speed on defense

Those are all great answers, except that they fail to address the fact that other teams that were playing well, had disciplined defenses and team speed on defense have failed to stop this running game unless they had big interior linemen. So actually you haven't given me much of a real answer.

I would not assume that Jax has a bad run defense. They're ranking is low because it's early in the year and they gave up 188 yards to our running game. They were tough against the run last year with the same players, finishing 11th against the run and 3rd in rushing TD's given up.

[SkinsandTerps]

Against this offense? I explained that already...teams like Baltimore, San Diego, Miami and Pittsburgh...all who have big interior linemen.

It's all about matchups. The Skins don't match up well against this running game.

The Redskins were #2 in the NFL last year against the rush. The Steelers were #1.

This season the Ravens are the only one of those 4 that is better against the rush (they are #2 the Redskins are #5. Pittsburgh and San Diego are both in the lower half of the league.

[Paladin]

I really don't see how you can say that without Denver having ever faced this Defense.

And I don't see how you can say that the 'Skins' D will stop the Broncos without them ever seeing this running game. And predicating a possible win on the possible performance of the QB is also foolhardy. My whole point is that much of this is just smoke.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The Redskins were #2 in the NFL last year against the rush. The Steelers were #1.

This season the Ravens are the only one of those 4 that is better against the rush (they are #2 the Redskins are #5. Pittsburgh and San Diego are both in the lower half of the league.
That is incorrect. Here are the current rankings for run defense:

Rushing Defense

Tampa Bay
Baltimore
Miami
Denver
Washington
Carolina
San Diego
St. Louis
Chicago
Kansas City

Miami is ranked 3rd, San Diego 7th, KC 10th, although I question KC's ranking as bogus...LOL

Regardless of ranking...this thread is not about rankiing. It's about matchups, and as I've shown, only one kind of defensive matchup has stopped this running game in the last two years.

[RedskinBronco]

If you are answering my question by disputing my data, I invite you to check out each and every game and its rushing stats over the last two years going back to the beginning of 2003, because that is what I did before I posted this. The teams you saw shut them down are already listed, along with the ones that shut them down when it was possible for Denver to either continue to run or we had a feature back in the game.

I noted in the original post that Jake has had only 2 out of 7 games where he turned the ball over a lot, and in one of those he threw over 50 times for almost 500 yards and threw 4 TD's to go with the 3 picks. So the question about wheter Jake can "catually play mistake free and create some offense", has essentially been answered by these past performances. Plummer has had more good games than bad when Denver's run has been stopped.


Once again, I'm not trying to dispute stats. Im really not a big stats person. Yea, they tell a lot of truth, but again Im basing my decision on what I've seen from both teams. Just remember, I didn't say the skins were going to completely shutdown the broncos. all I said was that the running game wouldn't be effective. Doesn't mean Denver won't win. For all I know, the Denver running game could go wild and washington wins the game anyway. You never know in this league. Im just going to sit back, relax and enjoy the game. I'll stand by my original prediction. Broncos 17 Skins 13 ...Anderson doesn't hit the century mark, but I see 2 TDs for Jake again.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Once again, I'm not trying to dispute stats. Im really not a big stats person. Yea, they tell a lot of truth, but again Im basing my decision on what I've seen from both teams. Just remember, I didn't say the skins were going to completely shutdown the broncos. all I said was that the running game wouldn't be effective. Doesn't mean Denver won't win. For all I know, the Denver running game could go wild and washington wins the game anyway. You never know in this league. Im just going to sit back, relax and enjoy the game. I'll stand by my original prediction. Broncos 17 Skins 13 ...Anderson doesn't hit the century mark, but I see 2 TDs for Jake again.
If you will reference the original post, I defined "shut down" as "ineffective", just as you are. So all the teams I posted are the ones that slowed Denver's running game to the "ineffective" level you are suggesting Washington can achieve. But all those teams that made our running game "ineffective" when we had a feature back or were not forced to abandon the run due to the score presented the matchup problem with a large interior lineman. Washington does not have that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

We are now 30 posts deep into this thread guys...and I'm still waiting for a well thought out answer as to how Washington can do what no other team without a huge inside D-Line has been able to do. I've heard "we have fast linebackers"..."we shut down Seattle"..."our defense is disciplined"..."we're ranked high"...

Everything but an answer that makes sense. How will you match up your smallish defensive line agaisnt a team that only gets it's run game slowed by huge interior linemen?

[ludo21]

We are now 30 posts deep into this thread guys...and I'm still waiting for a well thought out answer as to how Washington can do what no other team without a huge inside D-Line has been able to do. I've heard "we have fast linebackers"..."we shut down Seattle"..."our defense is disciplined"..."we're ranked high"...

Everything but an answer that makes sense. How will you match up your smallish defensive line agaisnt a team that only gets it's run game slowed by huge interior linemen?

The only way i see them stopping us is the OL doesnt get a good push and the LB's are running thru our TE's and Guards.

[SkinsandTerps]

That is incorrect. Here are the current rankings for run defense:

Rushing Defense

Tampa Bay
Baltimore
Miami
Denver
Washington
Carolina
San Diego
St. Louis
Chicago
Kansas City

Miami is ranked 3rd, San Diego 7th, KC 10th, although I question KC's ranking as bogus...LOL

Regardless of ranking...this thread is not about rankiing. It's about matchups, and as I've shown, only one kind of defensive matchup has stopped this running game in the last two years.

Sorry, missed Miami.

But as you say, Ranking is not important. Results are 17 of the last 20 games the Redskins have not given up 100 yards to a rusher.

The question you posted is easily reversed, why do you think with a less than 20% chance that Anderson WILL have a great day rushing the ball ?

Because they havent faced the Redskins either ?

Like I have stated. I think this will be a tough game. Kudos to the winner.

[watermock]

What you have to understand from footsteps is he's a moron.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Sorry, missed Miami.
You also said that San Diego is in the lower half of the league, when in fact they are 7th.
But as you say, Ranking is not important. Results are 17 of the last 20 games the Redskins have not given up 100 yards to a rusher.

The question you posted is easily reversed, why do you think with a less than 20% chance that Anderson WILL have a great day rushing the ball ?

Because they havent faced the Redskins either ?
Well actually I can answer that, but the question is not whether the Skins have faced Denver or Denver has faced Washington...it has to do with matchups.

Denver will run the ball against Washington because there is only one type of defense that we don't run well against...teams with very large dominating interior defensive linemen. The question of success when only 20% of opposing individual runners have reached 100 yards does not concern me much because this team has 3 running backs capable of getting quality carries. If you give up 88 yards to Mike, 56 to Tatum and 20 to Dayne plus 20 to Plummer and Kyle Johnson, that means we ran the ball for 184 yards, which is not shutting us down. If I were inclined to do so I'd look up the team rushing stats for Washington, but that's not really the point. Denver's offense runs a different type of scheme, and only Atlanta uses it as well. We will run on you because even though you've stopped other good running games you have not faced this kind of running game.

Some have said that Washington beat Denver at home in 2001 and also stopped the run. However in 2001 Denver had Mike Anderson hurt most of the year and Olandis Gary was coming off redonstructive knee surgery from the previous season. He carried only 57 times all year and Denver finished only 10th in the NFL in rushing, 19th in ypc...so that game is not a valid test of the Skins ability to go against this stretch zone blocking scheme when it's got a featured back available.

[footstepsfrom#27]

What you have to understand from footsteps is he's a moron.
Who is a moron?

[SkinsandTerps]

Not even going to bother quoting you.

The answer is clearly:

Thus Far.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Not even going to bother quoting you.

The answer is clearly:

Thus Far.
So you're saying that you will stop the Denver run because at some point somebody without the matchup advantages I'm referring to will do so?

That seems pretty weak...LOL

[2KBack]

And I don't see how you can say that the 'Skins' D will stop the Broncos without them ever seeing this running game. And predicating a possible win on the possible performance of the QB is also foolhardy. My whole point is that much of this is just smoke.

I've made no prediction either way, all of it is smoke.

[sirhcyennek81]

Broncos have run for 409 yards the last two games after running for 189 the first two. This team looks entirely content to pound the middle, pound the edges, make you crack, and take your will away. Denver will run the ball on the redskins. Thats what we do. Eventually, some team will pull their safeties up to the line, and our passing game will produce some big plays. We will see tho. Broncos win, 24-13.

[SkinsandTerps]

So you're saying that you will stop the Denver run because at some point somebody without the matchup advantages I'm referring to will do so?

That seems pretty weak...LOL

Was this the point of your thread ? To make yourself out to be a clown ? I hope not.

Trust me when I tell you that the Broncos do not have a back equal to Bettis, Lewis, or Johnson.

Many of you guys may believe in a proven system and I understand that (I believe in the Redskins defensive system.

Less than a 20% chance for Anderson to have a 100 yard game.
Anderson is equal to a healthy Jamal, Rudi, or Jerome ? Sorry, but I think not.

[sirhcyennek81]

you do know that its not about one back in our system. Anderson, Bell and Dayne. you wont know which back best exploits your defense until a 100 yards is already on the board. Vs. san diego and kansas city, denver did not have a 100 yard rusher, but all three runners carried the ball. Steelers used a similar approach to win 15 reg. season games and homefield advantage.

[SkinsandTerps]

you do know that its not about one back in our system. Anderson, Bell and Dayne. you wont know which back best exploits your defense until a 100 yards is already on the board. Vs. san diego and kansas city, denver did not have a 100 yard rusher, but all three runners carried the ball. Steelers used a similar approach to win 15 reg. season games and homefield advantage.


Compare rushing TDs by RBs after 4 weeks with the '04 Steelers with the '05 Broncos.

World of difference.

You think the Redskins dont know about sorry ass Dayne ? haha.
Anderson one (and done) hit wonder ?
Bell ? Well who knows with this guy.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Was this the point of your thread ? To make yourself out to be a clown ? I hope not.
Same trend I've noticed on the extremeskins board...when you don't have an answer for something or don't like my opinion, resort to insults...the last bastion of a defeated man.
Trust me when I tell you that the Broncos do not have a back equal to Bettis, Lewis, or Johnson.
Trust YOU? Why? What would you know about how good Mike Anderson and Tatum Bell are? Anderson got his 1500 yard season straight out of the box his rookie year just like Portis did. The only reason Clinton moved into the starting lineup is because Shanahan wanted them both on the field at the same time...Mr. Inside...Mr. Outside...and he asked Mike if he would mind moving to the FB spot. And because the guy is the ultimate team player, he agreed to do so, even though it meant giving up the spotlight. In any case, it's not about whether Anderson is better than Lewis, Bettis or Johnson...it's about preparing for a stretch zone run blocking system that your defense has yet to play agianst. None of those teams use that system.
Many of you guys may believe in a proven system and I understand that (I believe in the Redskins defensive system.
What "system" do they run? And how are its run defensive assignments radically different from what other NFL teams run that the Broncos have faced?
Less than a 20% chance for Anderson to have a 100 yard game.
Anderson is equal to a healthy Jamal, Rudi, or Jerome ? Sorry, but I think not.
That might be true if you were facing the same kind of run blocking scheme that you did in those other games, but you are not. Bottom line: you need a massive interior defensive lineman, and a good one...to stop this running game. You do not have that. Might you stop it anyway? Possibly. But if you do you will be the only team in the last 36 games to do so.

That's a much worse chance than 20%.

[footstepsfrom#27]

We are 44 posts into this thread...and it's now obvious that instead of coming up with legitimate answers to the original question, the best you can do is result to insults, meaningless statements about how fast your defense is, how high they are rated, how inferior our RB's are...perhaps you should ask yourself why do the Denver Broncos own the NFL's #1 rushing offense over the last 10 years?

You'll find out on Sunday.

[sirhcyennek81]

skins...please be kidding. Dayne is in a system he used in college to win the heisman. Bell is JUST as fast as portis. doubt anderson. teams have done that so far all year long. also...broncos 2005 at this point have the same record as the steelers of 04. Broncos will run the ball. you will lose. then you can cry about or cut blocking and how we cheated you out of a win. like the chiefs and jags.

[SkinsandTerps]

skins...please be kidding. Dayne is in a system he used in college to win the heisman. Bell is JUST as fast as portis. doubt anderson. teams have done that so far all year long. also...broncos 2005 at this point have the same record as the steelers of 04. Broncos will run the ball. you will lose. then you can cry about or cut blocking and how we cheated you out of a win. like the chiefs and jags.

We arent talking records, we are talking production.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I was hoping that I'd hear something from Skins fans to suggest they could remember prior games in which a Joe Gibbs defense needed to clog the middle of the line, something like defensive allignments with both DT's over the center like Chuck Noll used to do with the Steel Curtain, or maybe sending Taylor on blitzes up the middle, shifting the MLB closer to the line...anything really...some twist of defensive game planning that maybe we hadn't thought of...

Instead I hear nothing more than you guys either insulting me for asking the question or igoring the question altogether.

Apparently you have no answer.

[SkinsandTerps]

We are 44 posts into this thread...and it's now obvious that instead of coming up with legitimate answers to the original question, the best you can do is result to insults, meaningless statements about how fast your defense is, how high they are rated, how inferior our RB's are...perhaps you should ask yourself why do the Denver Broncos own the NFL's #1 rushing offense over the last 10 years?

You'll find out on Sunday.

The answers are there. Unfortunatley you are so much of a homer (or otherwise) that you refuse to acknowledge them.

I expect a close game. 2 of those years you had the current Redskins starting RB. I know you cant overlook that.

[footstepsfrom#27]

We arent talking records, we are talking production.
Exactly...production...and you have yet to answer the question of what makes this Redskin defensive "system" able to overcome the lack of interior size on the line in a matchup that does not favor you. You have one of the smaller defensive lines we will face this year. If you look around the AFC West you will see that every AFC West team has a large interior run stuffing defensive tackle or NT. The Raiders have two. Why is this? It's because each of those teams has built that into their defense knowing they need to match up with our O-line with size inside. You don't have that size.

[SkinsandTerps]

I was hoping that I'd hear something from Skins fans to suggest they could remember prior games in which a Joe Gibbs defense needed to clog the middle of the line, something like defensive allignments with both DT's over the center like Chuck Noll used to do with the Steel Curtain, or maybe sending Taylor on blitzes up the middle, shifting the MLB closer to the line...anything really...some twist of defensive game planning that maybe we hadn't thought of...

Instead I hear nothing more than you guys either insulting me for asking the question or igoring the question altogether.

Apparently you have no answer.

The answer is clear. And has been answered. You however, have not answered my question.

I will leave it up to you to figure out why that is. (hopefully you will figure it out)

This guys is talking about the Steelers of the frickin' 70's, Geez.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The answers are there. Unfortunatley you are so much of a homer (or otherwise) that you refuse to acknowledge them.

I expect a close game. 2 of those years you had the current Redskins starting RB. I know you cant overlook that.
The answers are not there, because the things you listed are true of other defenses we've faced and run on. It's not a matter of me being a homer...I'm pointing out something that is established fact; only NFL defenses with large interior linemen have stopped this running game and you don't have that. The fact that Portis was our RB has nothing to do with this. We were running on everyone we faced long before CP got here. What about the rest of the time of the Shanahan era? We have a feature back almost every year, and even in those years we haven't, we still had a productive running game.

You gravely underestimate both Anderson and Bell.

[SkinsandTerps]

Exactly...production...and you have yet to answer the question of what makes this Redskin defensive "system" able to overcome the lack of interior size on the line in a matchup that does not favor you. You have one of the smaller defensive lines we will face this year. If you look around the AFC West you will see that every AFC West team has a large interior run stuffing defensive tackle or NT. The Raiders have two. Why is this? It's because each of those teams has built that into their defense knowing they need to match up with our O-line with size inside. You don't have that size.

The AFC West. Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers, and Raiders.

Those are top on my list of great run stopping teams. Gimme a break.

[SkinsandTerps]

You gravely underestimate both Anderson and Bell.

Anderson underrated ? You have to be rated to be underrated.

Bell ? Clearly unproven, Sunday is coming soon, I expect him to try to prove it.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The AFC West. Chiefs, Broncos, Chargers, and Raiders.

Those are top on my list of great run stopping teams. Gimme a break.
The point was not that they are great run defenses; the point was that they are big inside on the line because they play in our division. But since you mention it...the Broncos and Chargers have top flight NFL defenses against the run. You don't think we stop the run well? Enemy feature backs are averaging 2.8 ypc against this defense. San Diego is ranked 7th against the run, and Oakland is giving up 3.4 ypc...which is better than Washington is doing at 3.6. Even KC is ranked 10th against the run and that's after WE torched them for 222 yards, which means in the other three games they've given up only 156 yards/ or a measly 52 yards per game.

[SkinsandTerps]

As you would say : " You still havent answered my question".

Honestly I dont even care at this point.

You have ZERO reason to doubt that the Redskins can stop the Broncos rushing attack except, based on some other random teams performance. Yet you dedicate a thread to it with no other argument besides, 'they have big guys'.

Pathetic.

[Odysseus]

Broncos have run for 409 yards the last two games after running for 189 the first two. This team looks entirely content to pound the middle, pound the edges, make you crack, and take your will away. Denver will run the ball on the redskins. Thats what we do. Eventually, some team will pull their safeties up to the line, and our passing game will produce some big plays. We will see tho. Broncos win, 24-13.

After this game I am curious as what the Skins fans are going to think of the coaches game plan.

Gibbs is a friend of Vermeil. Dickie V is off this week sitting next to his phone watching the Skins on t.v. playing the Broncos. He plays the Skins next week. I wonder if Dickie makes a phone call...not that Dickie is sore with Mike or anything. It's just football. :devil:

Age aside Dickie V looks like he's aged a little since last year.

Gibbs got tagged last year as "the game has past him by". This would be a big win for him. He's going to pull out all the stops. Shanny had better be ready for this game because a "short leash" might not be enough if you have to make fast adjustments.

I imagine they are probably going to be playing us a lot harder than we are going to be playing them. Fans need to show up at this game!!

I hope Champ walks away with two picks and a score. I hope Portis walks away realizing their is no doubt this was a great trade for us...not that the press won't immeadiately jump on this slant after the game.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Anderson underrated ? You have to be rated to be underrated.

Bell ? Clearly unproven, Sunday is coming soon, I expect him to try to prove it.
So which is it?...Did Anderson get his 1500 yards/ 5.0 ypc rushing in only 12 STARTS and win ROY in 2000 because he's a great back or because he's in a great system? You have to pick one or the other...if you say it's because he's a great back...fine...you need to be concerned. If you say...he sucks but he's in a great system...fine...you still have to be concerned; point is this...MA in the only year he was healthy and playing tailback equaled CP's production in Denver's backfield. Don't believe it? Think...yea but he's a 3 yard and a cloud of dust guy right? Mike had more runs over 20 yards than CP did and scored the same number of TD's (15). Bell is not "unproven", unless you consider 5.3 ypc "unproven"...LOL...you wish CP had done that last year instead of his 3.8 ypc he got last year. The only reason Bell isn't startng is because we have MA...and Shanny didn't ask him to step aside and play FB like he did before.

[SkinsandTerps]

So which is it?...Did Anderson get his 1500 yards/ 5.0 ypc rushing in only 12 STARTS and win ROY in 2000 because he's a great back or because he's in a great system? You have to pick one or the other...if you say it's because he's a great back...fine...you need to be concerned. If you say...he sucks but he's in a great system...fine...you still have to be concerned; point is this...MA in the only year he was healthy and playing tailback equaled CP's production in Denver's backfield. Don't believe it? Think...yea but he's a 3 yard and a cloud of dust guy right? Mike had more runs over 20 yards than CP did and scored the same number of TD's (15). Bell is not "unproven", unless you consider 5.3 ypc "unproven"...LOL...you wish CP had done that last year instead of his 3.8 ypc he got last year. The only reason Bell isn't startng is because we have MA...and Shanny didn't ask him to step aside and play FB like he did before.


Are you seriously saying that he is as good as he was then ?

Terrible. You even stated it, " The only year he was healthy"

[footstepsfrom#27]

As you would say : " You still havent answered my question".
I believe I did...but ask it again and I'll answer it.
You have ZERO reason to doubt that the Redskins can stop the Broncos rushing attack except, based on some other random teams performance. Yet you dedicate a thread to it with no other argument besides, 'they have big guys'.
I have 10 years of leading the NFL in rushing as a pretty good reason to doubt that you will stop them and a two year history of the present team NEVER being shut down when the run was an option unless it was to teams with big interior defensive linemen. Coaches in the NFL call that a matchup problem. You called it...
Pathetic.
Nice attempt to avoid the question...why don't you just admit you have no answer?

[SkinsandTerps]

I have 10 years

Yet you can only truly refer to 2.

We can go on and on in circles forever.

How much do you miss Elway and Davis ?

I can take any team and throw them in the gutter that doesnt mean that they suck.
Reality is that both teams are in for a challenge. You believe that the Broncos rushing attack is superior, I believe that the Redskins defense against the rush is superior. Neither of us are wrong.

It will be proven on Sunday.

[SkinsandTerps]

Nice attempt to avoid the question...why don't you just admit you have no answer?

Nor do you.

Simply put, there is no reason for you to believe the Redskins cant stop the Broncos on the ground. Round and round we go.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Are you seriously saying that he is as good as he was then ?

Terrible. You even stated it, " The only year he was healthy"
I didnt' say he was only healthy one year. He was only healthy one year out of the two years during the time he was asked to play tailback. He missed 9 starts in 2001 and in 2002 moved over to FB when CP got here. Mike played FB during 2002 and was healthy that year and the next, but was out last year. Anderson is a better inside runner than Portis will ever be. We know that in Denver even if you don't. He's also a better blocker and a MUCH better TEAM oriented guy. Clinton's much faster and more explosive, not nearly the downhill chain mover wrecking ball that Andersn is. I'd take Clinton at this point becasue of his age, but Mike's being hurt last year is hardly a reflection on how good he is. How do you think he got those 1500 yards? How many NFL rookies rushed for 1500 yards that did not play for the Denver Broncos? Give up? One...Eric Dickerson. Earl Campbell held the previous record with 1450 yards, which Mike broke. He also set the NFL's all time single game rookie record with 251 yards and 4 TD's against a tough New Orleans run defense...so don't even think about dissing Anderson. The guy's a stud

[footstepsfrom#27]

Nor do you.

Simply put, there is no reason for you to believe the Redskins cant stop the Broncos on the ground. Round and round we go.
I have already said I will answer your question. What is it?

[footstepsfrom#27]

And 30 minutes later...deafening silence.

Good night Shin fans...

[aluadan]

Griffin, regardless of his size, is one of the biggest reasons the Skins are so good against the run. He may not be 325+ but he holds his ground very well and usually doesn't give a big push up the middle that allows teams to run the ball well between the tackles. The linebackers and secondary are also very quick to fill the holes being no more then a yard or 2 off the line of scrimmage when contact is made to prevent any decent gains. That is I guess the best awnser I can give you, again, Griffin may not be 325+ but you could say that he certainly plays that way.

Often the only time teams seem to get any big runs are ones that go offtackle and almost always they come in passing situations. If I recall correctly Alexanders biggest run last week was in a passing situation, the Skins only had 3 linemen in and it was a huge run offtackle for a big gain.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Griffin, regardless of his size, is one of the biggest reasons the Skins are so good against the run. He may not be 325+ but he holds his ground very well and usually doesn't give a big push up the middle that allows teams to run the ball well between the tackles. The linebackers and secondary are also very quick to fill the holes being no more then a yard or 2 off the line of scrimmage when contact is made to prevent any decent gains. That is I guess the best awnser I can give you, again, Griffin may not be 325+ but you could say that he certainly plays that way.

Often the only time teams seem to get any big runs are ones that go offtackle and almost always they come in passing situations. If I recall correctly Alexanders biggest run last week was in a passing situation, the Skins only had 3 linemen in and it was a huge run offtackle for a big gain.
LOL...the only guy from the Skins fan base who actually tried to answer the question is one with only a single post on this board. I don't think your answer really meets the criteria of my original question, but you at least made a good effort to answer it instead of yacking about how good they are. Welcome to the Mane. Now here's a little something for the rest of Shindom who thinks Mike Anderson is a stiff and doesn't belong on the same field with Clinton Portis:

http://www.detnews.com/2000/lions/0012/04/sports-157104.htm

Rookie rushes for 251 yards, leads Broncos past Saints

Associated Press

Broncos running back Mike Anderson looks to the heavens after scoring his fourth touchdown Sunday.

By Mary Foster / Associated Press

NEW ORLEANS -- Mike Anderson played drums in his high school band the last time he was in the Louisiana Superdome. On Sunday, he marched into the NFL record book.
Anderson ran 37 times for 251 yards and four touchdowns, breaking the NFL rookie rushing record in the Broncos' 38-23 victory against the New Orleans Saints.
"We ran two base plays all day," Anderson said. "Hand off left, hand off right."
Anderson broke the mark of 246 yards on 39 attempts set by Corey Dillon on Dec. 4, 1997. Anderson also broke Terrell Davis' 215-yard single-game rushing record for the Broncos.
"It was just poor tackling," Saints coach Jim Haslett said. "Too many guys on the ground, and we didn't play well."
The victory left Denver (9-4) in striking distance of the Oakland Raiders (10-3) in the AFC West. The Saints (8-5) stayed tied with the St. Louis Rams for first place in the NFC West.
The Broncos opened up a big lead in the second quarter with three touchdowns, taking a 28-13 advantage at the half. They made it 31-13 in the third quarter with Jason Elam's 22-yard field goal, and Anderson scored his final touchdown of the day in the fourth quarter.
Anderson's accomplishment didn't come without pain.
He was helped off the field in the third quarter after Saints cornerback Kevin Mathis upended him. Anderson bruised his left knee but jogged on the sideline and returned in the fourth quarter.
Anderson was in New Orleans with his South Carolina high school band during Mardi Gras in 1991, ending up each day in the Superdome.
The march downfield Sunday was better, Denver quarterback Gus Frerotte said.
"Anderson is a lot of fun to watch," said Frerotte, who's filling in for an injured Brian Griese. "He hits the holes, he makes guys miss and breaks tackles. He's showing he's a big time back."
Anderson rushed for a 13-yard touchdown in the first quarter, for touchdowns of 5 yards and 7 yards in the second quarter and for a 2-yarder in the fourth. He's the first Denver player to score four touchdowns in a game.
Frerotte, who had offset six touchdown passes with seven interceptions going into the game, was 11-of-16 for 201 yards with no interceptions and one sack. He threw a 43-yard touchdown pass to Dwayne Carswell in the second quarter.
New Orleans got another big game from Aaron Brooks, who completed 30 of 48 passes for 441 and two touchdowns, breaking Archie Manning's single-game team record of 377 yards set in 1980. Brooks was sacked three times and intercepted twice.
"Sometimes you give all you can and you don't come back," Brooks said.
For the first time, New Orleans missed running back Ricky Williams, who broke his ankle Oct. 15 against Carolina. New Orleans did not run once in the second half.
While Anderson was keeping the Saints' defense honest, New Orleans had only 21 yards rushing, 13 yards by Brooks. Jerald Moore gained 6 yards after missing much of the week with a shoulder injury. Chad Morton, who separated his shoulder in the first quarter, gained 5 yards. Terrelle Smith had minus 3.
New Orleans, with the fourth-ranked defense in the NFL, had given up over 21 points only three times previously this year. The Saints had allowed an average of 288.8 total yards a game through their first 12 games, only 80.8 rushing. The Broncos had 483 total yards, 283 rushing.
"We pride ourselves on stopping the run and any time your goal isn't reached, it hurts your pride," Saints linebacker Keith Mitchell said. "He put up 251 yards and he's a rookie, so I guess our pride took a hit."
The Saints first touchdown was on a 19-yard pass from Brooks to Andrew Glover in the first half. Brooks hit Willie Jackson with a 28-yard touchdown pass 45 seconds before the game ended.
Doug Brien kicked field goals of 30, 19 and 42 yards for New Orleans. He missed a 43-yard attempt in the first quarter.
Joe Horn had 170 yards on 10 receptions, giving him 1,059 yards for the season and making him the first Saints player to reach the 1,000 yard mark since Quinn Early did it in 1995.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Any questions?

[DC Dreaming]

The answers are not there, because the things you listed are true of other defenses we've faced and run on. It's not a matter of me being a homer...I'm pointing out something that is established fact; only NFL defenses with large interior linemen have stopped this running game and you don't have that. The fact that Portis was our RB has nothing to do with this. We were running on everyone we faced long before CP got here. What about the rest of the time of the Shanahan era? We have a feature back almost every year, and even in those years we haven't, we still had a productive running game.

You gravely underestimate both Anderson and Bell.

Do other offenses use zone blocking? Yes. Do they all do it as well as Denver? No

Same with the Redskins defense. Do other D's have undersized DT's and fill gaps with LB's? Yes. Do they do it as well as the Skins? Not most.

You tell us not to compare your offense to others we've played and then you post 8 pages of stats from your RB's against other teams defenses...WTF? We can only answer with who we've faced so far..... same with you. We wouldn't be having this discussion if we had already played because then we'd know EXACTLY what we could do against one another. Until then you HAVE to use examples from other games ugh!~

[-Slap-]

Washington will be run upon this Sunday. Especially late, when they're tired from being on the field all day, courtesy of the three and outs their offense will be accumulating.

A disciplined front line is more effective against a zone blocking scheme. They're not chasing the ball as much, so they're less prone to cut blocks as they pursue. In our scheme, the goal is to hit the man who comes through your zone, and hopefully, take him off his feet.

I definitely believe this defense is better than their individual components, which is to say, Gregg Williams is getting these guys to overperform. They're going to have plenty of opportunities to show their stuff because their offense is going to have them on the field all day, sucking for oxygen in that thin mountain air.

[BurgundyNGold]

We are 44 posts into this thread...and it's now obvious that instead of coming up with legitimate answers to the original question, the best you can do is result to insults, meaningless statements about how fast your defense is, how high they are rated, how inferior our RB's are...perhaps you should ask yourself why do the Denver Broncos own the NFL's #1 rushing offense over the last 10 years?

You'll find out on Sunday.
Assuming that you actually want to know how and why the Redskins D can stop the vaunted Denver running attack -- as opposed to attempting to bully and cajole Redskin fans into simply agreeing with you -- I'll answer your question.

1) Scheme: Gregg Williams employs a clogging, gap style of run defense which is the foundation to everything else the Redskins do. Getting into the backfield is not their primarly responsibility. They're job in the base defense is to stand up the linemen and clog up the holes up the middle. They play both 1 and 2 gap schemes based on the package and the line call of Dale Lindey, defensive line coach.

Sysnopsis: The holes aren't very likely to be there.

2) Aggression: As I am sure you know, all blitzes are first and foremost run blitzes. In fact, there really is no such thing as a "pass" or "run" blitzes, specifically. GW has over 20 packages designed to confound [offenses] and they all start with stopping the run. A few DL stunts actually open up holes for the LBs to run in and blitz. Often, this results in stops in the backfield.

Synposis: The Redskins D will not read and react to what Denver is doing. They'll look to force the issue -- even in the run game.

3) Personnel: You might notice that, with the possible exception of Cornelius Griffin, the Redskins DL will never be confused with pressure generating D linemen. They may be undersized, but like the Broncos OL, the have excellent lateral speed and move down the LOS as the Broncos OL attempts to slide out to one side or the other.

Synopsis: Sweeps are likely to me strung out for a minimal gain

4) Experience: Gibbs & Co. did a LOT of reseach on zone blocking schemes in the offseason so that we could implement similar schemes for Portis this year. They have seen Denver and Atlanta extensively in the film room far before this week. Plus, since we have implemented a similar system, our defense gets to practice against the system every week. Now, this is not the exact Denver system nor is it the Denver OL, but there is familiarity there.

Synopsis: This won't be like running against Jacksonville who doesn't employ these schemes.

So, in short, it is probably goin to be a long day form both running games. There may be a burst here and there, but all in all, I think you've got 2 great run defenses going at it. I think that it will ultimately come down to the 2 QBs having to make plays and special teams, because it's just going to be that kind of game.

[RoanokeSkin]

Question: Skin Fans: Tell me why you think your defense can shut down our running game


Answer: Because since Gregg Williams put on the burgundy and gold, no one has sucessfully ran on us. Our D is that good. If you want to question the Redskins over the past 19 games, why dont you question the offense. Maybe the question should be Skin Fans: Tell me why you think you can score. That would be a far more legitimate question considering how well your defense has played through 4 games.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Assuming that you actually want to know how and why the Redskins D can stop the vaunted Denver running attack -- as opposed to attempting to bully and cajole Redskin fans into simply agreeing with you -- I'll answer your question.

1) Scheme: Gregg Williams employs a clogging, gap style of run defense which is the foundation to everything else the Redskins do. Getting into the backfield is not their primarly responsibility. They're job in the base defense is to stand up the linemen and clog up the holes up the middle. They play both 1 and 2 gap schemes based on the package and the line call of Dale Lindey, defensive line coach.

Sysnopsis: The holes aren't very likely to be there.

2) Aggression: As I am sure you know, all blitzes are first and foremost run blitzes. In fact, there really is no such thing as a "pass" or "run" blitzes, specifically. GW has over 20 packages designed to confound [offenses] and they all start with stopping the run. A few DL stunts actually open up holes for the LBs to run in and blitz. Often, this results in stops in the backfield.

Synposis: The Redskins D will not read and react to what Denver is doing. They'll look to force the issue -- even in the run game.

3) Personnel: You might notice that, with the possible exception of Cornelius Griffin, the Redskins DL will never be confused with pressure generating D linemen. They may be undersized, but like the Broncos OL, the have excellent lateral speed and move down the LOS as the Broncos OL attempts to slide out to one side or the other.

Synopsis: Sweeps are likely to me strung out for a minimal gain

4) Experience: Gibbs & Co. did a LOT of reseach on zone blocking schemes in the offseason so that we could implement similar schemes for Portis this year. They have seen Denver and Atlanta extensively in the film room far before this week. Plus, since we have implemented a similar system, our defense gets to practice against the system every week. Now, this is not the exact Denver system nor is it the Denver OL, but there is familiarity there.

Synopsis: This won't be like running against Jacksonville who doesn't employ these schemes.

So, in short, it is probably goin to be a long day form both running games. There may be a burst here and there, but all in all, I think you've got 2 great run defenses going at it. I think that it will ultimately come down to the 2 QBs having to make plays and special teams, because it's just going to be that kind of game.
YES!! We have a winner! Somebody actually took the time to give me an actual answer to the question. Good take. I heard Gibbs was looking at some zone blocking schemes for Portis earlier this year but have heard nothing about it from hundreds of Skin fan posts untill now. Portis 3.8 ypc avg didn't sit to well with him I don't think.

I do think we will run against you guys anyway, because tinkering with this thing in hopes of putting it in is a lot different than using it for years, just as watching it on film is different than going against it every day in practice. I still maintain that a massive inside run stuffer is the most difficult thing this O-line has to face and Washington doesn't have one. But KUDOS for not only answering the question, but also knowing something about zone blocking techniques. Few fans understand that lateral movement is the key. NFL D-lines are built to withstand 340 pound drive blockers, not quick, mobile speed guys who move well as a unit, and since they hardly ever see that, they are usually ill prepared for it.

Great Post.

[TBF1]

I think BNG summed it up nicely.

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/8788/gluefactory23ax.jpg

[superbowlXL]

Believe me, I think it is going to be a great matchup. I love our D-line b/c all they do is and defense because all they do is hold down opposing RBs. We heard it constantly the past two weeks that Julius Jones and Alexander would eat us alive... blah, blah, blah.

I personally really respect the Broncos runnign attack and I'm looking forward to the matchups. I'm not a fan of people who just talk trash... Anyone can get into a "my daddy can beat up your daddy" argument... Even second graders do that. I like when fans provide a little insight.

Our MLB has played really smart football and so far we haven't missed Antonios Pierce. I have been critical of Marshall at times, but the kid is doing a great job. He sheds blockers, rarely is out of position (I can only remember a couple plays), and is (so far) a very sure tackler. My biggest concern about stopping the run is the health os Sean Taylor. I've personally seen him put a hurting on many a RB that I thought was about to break a run (most last year). With his shoulder banged up, he probably won't be laying the wood like he usually does so that is of course a worry. Whatever cog we drop in at the other safety spot will do just fine. I love that Gregg Williams rotates players (as I am sure Broncos fans are thrilled with your d-line rotation). It'll be a great matchup and because I think the game will be close, I'll be one that I think goes on the whole game.

[fontaine]

So, in short, it is probably goin to be a long day form both running games. There may be a burst here and there, but all in all, I think you've got 2 great run defenses going at it. I think that it will ultimately come down to the 2 QBs having to make plays and special teams, because it's just going to be that kind of game.

I agree, it's going to be chess and not checkers for this one.

It's going to be very interesting how Denver uses it's TEs and WRs to try and open things up for the running game because with two tough run defenses, they won't be able to do the same things that work week in week out in run blocking.

I happen to think Denver has the advantage here not just because they're playing at home, but also because the ST, and Offense advantage goes to Denver since the skins are having issues on ST and seem to have real problems putting up a points.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Tell me why you think you can score. That would be a far more legitimate question considering how well your defense has played through 4 games.
Because 1) we lead the NFL in rushing over the last decade and we run on just about everybody, and 2) we're playing at home where your team will be wondering who sucked the oxygen out of their lungs by the middle of the 3rd quarter.

We may not need to score much. You don't.

[Haroldthebarrel]

What I have seen from the Skins thus far(havent seen the Seahawks game yet) is that they are extremely sure tackles. That along with that they fill the gaps great certainly is a voice of concern for us. In fact it wouldnt surprise me the least if they have given up the least yards after contact.

On the other hand as Slap points out is that the Broncos really seem to click running in the fourth quarter. I think all our three wins have yielded a lot of rushing yards in the fourth quarter. And that is also where the three headed monster gets in funk.

Remember that the Seahawsk have really been running well lately. To give up nearly 100 yards to Alexander or anybody running behind Jones/Hutchinson is what.... pretty normal actually.
Orton is parhaps the worst qb I have seen this year and Dabears having to go onedimentional running makes it easy when you have a disciplined front. It is not like the Bears have KC Oline to create holes.

What I am really saying is that the Redskins have a really good defense. But they have also had a bit of luck with the schedule.
This time they will meet a pretty good offense and defense. An offense that have ran wild on three prettty good run stopping teams. And also a defense that have been dominant.
Can they stop the run against us. Yes if they play way better than they have thus far(and we dont play as bad as the first game). But there is no doubt in my mind that this is the biggest test they have had so far.
On the other hand I also think that this game is really uncertain on our half. I fear this game a bit more than the Eagles game, as the Eagles are a good team with a clear weakness in stopping the run-mismatch to our advantage. While on the other hand the Redskins is a much better and especially extremely diciplined team than most give them credit for.

[superbowlXL]

Another concern I have is fatigue. Last season, when the offense really struggled, I noticed the d-line would be worn out by the fourth quarter. I think to be successful, we'll need to move the ball on offense and keep our core guys fresh. Whereas with Denver, you'll rotate enough that your d-line will definitely be ready. Again it is going to be a great matchup!

[footstepsfrom#27]

What I have seen from the Skins thus far(havent seen the Seahawks game yet) is that they are extremely sure tackles. That along with that they fill the gaps great certainly is a voice of concern for us. In fact it wouldnt surprise me the least if they have given up the least yards after contact.

On the other hand as Slap points out is that the Broncos really seem to click running in the fourth quarter. I think all our three wins have yielded a lot of rushing yards in the fourth quarter. And that is also where the three headed monster gets in funk.

Remember that the Seahawsk have really been running well lately. To give up nearly 100 yards to Alexander or anybody running behind Jones/Hutchinson is what.... pretty normal actually.
Skin fans have done a good job hiding the Seattle game...119 yards and a 5.2 ypc avg by harping on the fact they didn't give Alexander 100 yards...no it was 98...close enough I think; as well as suggesting Alexander got all his yards on one or two rushes, which after reviewing the play by play stats I see is incorrect. I don't see anything out of the ordinary about Alexander's day for a guy who got 20 carries for 98 yards...about what I'd expect, a couple nice runs and quite a few very short ones mixed in with several decent ones...a typical day for him.

So all of the "NOBODY runs on us" stuff is not exactly true...a good back can and has run on the Skins. I don't look for Denver to go off for 160 yards in this game, but I believe we will run for about 120+ which should be enough to keep the defense honest against Jake Plummer.

[BurgundyNGold]

YES!! We have a winner! Somebody actually took the time to give me an actual answer to the question. Good take. I heard Gibbs was looking at some zone blocking schemes for Portis earlier this year but have heard nothing about it from hundreds of Skin fan posts untill now. Portis 3.8 ypc avg didn't sit to well with him I don't think.

I do think we will run against you guys anyway, because tinkering with this thing in hopes of putting it in is a lot different than using it for years, just as watching it on film is different than going against it every day in practice. I still maintain that a massive inside run stuffer is the most difficult thing this O-line has to face and Washington doesn't have one. But KUDOS for not only answering the question, but also knowing something about zone blocking techniques. Few fans understand that lateral movement is the key. NFL D-lines are built to withstand 340 pound drive blockers, not quick, mobile speed guys who move well as a unit, and since they hardly ever see that, they are usually ill prepared for it.

Great Post.
Thanks. I've always marvelled at the Denver run blocking. It really is poetry in motion when they get it going. Hopefully, I won't be seeing any such artwork on Sunday. ;)

[BurgundyNGold]

Skin fans have done a good job hiding the Seattle game...119 yards and a 5.2 ypc avg by harping on the fact they didn't give Alexander 100 yards...no it was 98...close enough I think; as well as suggesting Alexander got all his yards on one or two rushes, which after reviewing the play by play stats I see is incorrect. I don't see anything out of the ordinary about Alexander's day for a guy who got 20 carries for 98 yards...about what I'd expect, a couple nice runs and quite a few very short ones mixed in with several decent ones...a typical day for him.

So all of the "NOBODY runs on us" stuff is not exactly true...a good back can and has run on the Skins. I don't look for Denver to go off for 160 yards in this game, but I believe we will run for about 120+ which should be enough to keep the defense honest against Jake Plummer.
Plummer's ability to use his legs -- specifically the bootleg -- should be a concern to Greg Williams. Plummer doesn't worry too many people when he's in the pocket, but he's a friggin' nightmare on the edges. He's also got a mean play action fake.

[Haroldthebarrel]

It depends on a lot of things. It is clearly that we cannot match up with Alexendar running behind Jones/Hutchinson on an individual basis. On the other hand we are more the sum is greater than the parts than any. I for one think it would be surprising if any of our backs breaks a lot of tackles.
Then again, if the OL plays as great as they did vs Jax then there is no way they will be stopping us. Even if I am still to be impressed by Carlisle on an individal front. On the other hand Foster and especially Hamilton seemed to be on top of their games lately. And Lepsis and Nalen are no slouches in the running game.

What I am leading up to is that if we are to be succesful running against them, it will be totally upon the line more than any game. I dont think we should expect many broken tackles.
Of course that brings Footsteps point of Huge DTs in full strength. And to be honest I have no answer for that. They have safeties that are very good vs the run, but that also put the risks of misdirection and bootlegs at high alert.

They could win the game, but then I think it would happen by getting a huge play on a pass play as our safeties IMO dont have great range. That and of course field position. Still you never know what happens. If I was told Denver were to rush for nearly 200 yards against the Jags then I would say you were a big homer. Shows how much I know, and how different each game could become.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Plummer's ability to use his legs -- specifically the bootleg -- should be a concern to Greg Williams. Plummer doesn't worry too many people when he's in the pocket, but he's a friggin' nightmare on the edges. He's also got a mean play action fake.
True enough...I look for Denver to utilize the tight ends in this game more, both to keep Taylor leery of cheating into the box and also to test that shoulder, just as you guys will test Champ if he plays. Putzier gets no respect because...lets face it...a guy nicknamed "Putz" can't be much right? LOL But he's an ex wide receiver and has the speed to get deep as evidenced by an NFL high 15 yards per catch for TE's last year. I also expect to see Lelie test them deep. Denver can't expect to ignore their middle range or deep passing game completely and let Washington just go 8 up in the box. Expect to see Jake throw on 1st down quite a bit and yes...the rollouts are key. Teams can game plan for the bootleg if they're disciplined but you can't stop a QB who is mobile and has a quick O-line from deciding to roll out or scramble.

I think Denver wins by 10 in a fairly low scoring game.

[BurgundyNGold]

True enough...I look for Denver to utilize the tight ends in this game more, both to keep Taylor leery of cheating into the box and also to test that shoulder, just as you guys will test Champ if he plays. Putzier gets no respect because...lets face it...a guy nicknamed "Putz" can't be much right? LOL But he's an ex wide receiver and has the speed to get deep as evidenced by an NFL high 15 yards per catch for TE's last year. I also expect to see Lelie test them deep. Denver can't expect to ignore their middle range or deep passing game completely and let Washington just go 8 up in the box. Expect to see Jake throw on 1st down quite a bit and yes...the rollouts are key. Teams can game plan for the bootleg if they're disciplined but you can't stop a QB who is mobile and has a quick O-line from deciding to roll out or scramble.

I think Denver wins by 10 in a fairly low scoring game.
That's more what I meant when I said bootleg. It's almost like an option with him, and he loses no accuracy when he's rolling out. Some people might argue that he's actually more accurate when he's on the move then in the pocket.

[footstepsfrom#27]

It depends on a lot of things. It is clearly that we cannot match up with Alexendar running behind Jones/Hutchinson on an individual basis. On the other hand we are more the sum is greater than the parts than any. I for one think it would be surprising if any of our backs breaks a lot of tackles.
I think Mike Anderson is more than capable of breaking tackles. Watch this guy in the 2nd half, especially in the 4th quarter when Washington's defense is tired. You'll see MA run over some people every week when he's healthy. For a guy who gained more yards than anyone this side of Eric Dickerson in his rookie year Mike gets WAY to little respect, even from our own fans. If he's healthy, he's a stud, and a 230 pound load for any defense to bring down.

[Circle Orange]

Well, I've got a conflict of interest this week. The 'Skins are my home team, the Broncs my away team...so I'll alternately cheer each other quarter.

I think the skins COULD stop the running game to force Jake into mistakes. In fact, that's the word out of DC right now, make Jake throw more than 20 times.

The Broncs need to get a lead, since this redskins team is still suspect on offense. I'm not sure they can score 21 on the road. But one thing I notice is out of conference games tend to be high scoring. My theory is that unfamiliar teams have more difficulty stopping the opposing offense.

Oh, I'm so schizophrenic here...

[footstepsfrom#27]

That's more what I meant when I said bootleg. It's almost like an option with him, and he loses no accuracy when he's rolling out. Some people might argue that he's actually more accurate when he's on the move then in the pocket.
According to the Denver coaches, from what I understand he IS more accurate on the run.

[BurgundyNGold]

Well, I've got a conflict of interest this week. The 'Skins are my home team, the Broncs my away team...so I'll alternately cheer each other quarter.

I think the skins COULD stop the running game to force Jake into mistakes. In fact, that's the word out of DC right now, make Jake throw more than 20 times.

The Broncs need to get a lead, since this redskins team is still suspect on offense. I'm not sure they can score 21 on the road. But one thing I notice is out of conference games tend to be high scoring. My theory is that unfamiliar teams have more difficulty stopping the opposing offense.

Oh, I'm so schizophrenic here...
Drink a beer when either team scores. That'll fix it. ;)

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Drink a beer when either team scores. That'll fix it. ;)

My kind of guy - even if you are the enemy this week.

[RedskinBronco]

Footsteps, you're setting yourself up big time here. I'll be on here and should the Broncos run wild on the skins D, I'll break down EVERYTHING for you and you can gloat all you want that you predicted right. However, if the Broncos run game is ineffective, you are banned from starting threads and keeping them going by saying the same sh!t over and over and over and over........ :hitself:

sidenote: I'll make this in caps locks so it is clear. THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME DOES NOT MATTER. THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THE BRONCOS RUNNING GAME AND ITS EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST THE REDSKINS DEFENSE.

[Mediator12]

One thing another mentioned is the Injuries to the WAS secondary. I think the fact that both safeties and Harris are nicked is definitely not a good thing for the skins. I believe the Broncos are going to pass a lot early and run a lot of short routes to make sure the safeties are honest in the running game.

If Den is successful the running game will open up after they keep throwing the ball to the perimeter and underneath like a first down running play. Remember, this used to be a variation of the west Coast offense and Plummer has been extremely good throwing the ball on first down with PA.

Someone mentioned that the sweeps will be ineffective since the WAS DL is quicker. Well, that is where the DEN scheme shines. They Cut back and rollout backside if the DL flows too quickly to the direction the play is headed. Watch the KC defense get abused by this and they KNEW it was coming. The disciplined gap control works for teams that have standard scheme's but the one cut and Downhill exploits disciplined defense by moving them laterally and cutting the pursuit. That is what WAS has not seen recently.

Finally, look for the reverse and Fake reverse package early for misdirection. A disciplined team keeps their assignments and therefore has to leave holes off tackle on the fake reverse. That is where the Broncos have truly excelled the last two games. Cutbacks and misdirection against the flow.

[RoanokeSkin]

Because 1) we lead the NFL in rushing over the last decade and we run on just about everybody, and 2) we're playing at home where your team will be wondering who sucked the oxygen out of their lungs by the middle of the 3rd quarter.

We may not need to score much. You don't.


Apparently you dont like to READ. I said you should pose the question:

SKINS fans: Why do you think you can score.

Try actually reading before snapping back about how great you are.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Footsteps, you're setting yourself up big time here. I'll be on here and should the Broncos run wild on the skins D, I'll break down EVERYTHING for you and you can gloat all you want that you predicted right. However, if the Broncos run game is ineffective, you are banned from starting threads and keeping them going by saying the same sh!t over and over and over and over........ :hitself:

sidenote: I'll make this in caps locks so it is clear. THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME DOES NOT MATTER. THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THE BRONCOS RUNNING GAME AND ITS EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST THE REDSKINS DEFENSE.
Knock yourself out. Hundreds of Shin fans assert we can't run. I assert we can. Hardly an outlandish position to take either way.

[footstepsfrom#27]

One thing another mentioned is the Injuries to the WAS secondary. I think the fact that both safeties and Harris are nicked is definitely not a good thing for the skins. I believe the Broncos are going to pass a lot early and run a lot of short routes to make sure the safeties are honest in the running game.

If Den is successful the running game will open up after they keep throwing the ball to the perimeter and underneath like a first down running play. Remember, this used to be a variation of the west Coast offense and Plummer has been extremely good throwing the ball on first down with PA.

Someone mentioned that the sweeps will be ineffective since the WAS DL is quicker. Well, that is where the DEN scheme shines. They Cut back and rollout backside if the DL flows too quickly to the direction the play is headed. Watch the KC defense get abused by this and they KNEW it was coming. The disciplined gap control works for teams that have standard scheme's but the one cut and Downhill exploits disciplined defense by moving them laterally and cutting the pursuit. That is what WAS has not seen recently.

Finally, look for the reverse and Fake reverse package early for misdirection. A disciplined team keeps their assignments and therefore has to leave holes off tackle on the fake reverse. That is where the Broncos have truly excelled the last two games. Cutbacks and misdirection against the flow.
What most people don't realize is this zone blocking/one cut running game is unlike other running schemes, which begin with a prescribed hole for the RB to run through. A play designed to go over left guard goes over left guard and if the hole isn't there it's left for the RB to dance out of trouble and create something. That's not true in this system. The back has the option of any hole he choooses, and theoretically every single running play should have one somewhere. The only way it doesn't is if all 5 O-line blockers, plus the tight end if he's also blocking, are individually defeated in their one to one matchups. That's why a back like Anderson who at 31 now probably runs a 4.7 40 on a good day could average 5.0 yards a crack running between the tackles. Earl Campbell did that once his entire career. Straightline speed isn't as important as vision, change of direction and balance with the ability to explode without hesitation through a hole and lower your pads into a linebacker. Adding the most technically sound O-line in the NFL with cut blocks on the backend pursuit opens some whoppers like the gap MA went 93 yards through against the Colts the last preseason game.

[Raider Bill]

I dont think it's just as simple as if you line up a couple of fat guys you shut down the Donk's cutback run.

A big NT helps, but your DL has to play stack and hold, read and release. Lining your DL up offset and blasting through gaps plays into what Denver wants to do. They use an active DL's movement against them.

You also need to get a decent shot on the TE releasing, and use some sort of 2 linebacker roll to force Plummer to make a decision in that bootleg. They try to isolate it on one guy who cant both cover and force Plummer.

It's more about gapping up and playing disciplined than any fancy scheme.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I dont think it's just as simple as if you line up a couple of fat guys you shut down the Donk's cutback run.

A big NT helps, but your DL has to play stack and hold, read and release. Lining your DL up offset and blasting through gaps plays into what Denver wants to do. They use an active DL's movement against them.

You also need to get a decent shot on the TE releasing, and use some sort of 2 linebacker roll to force Plummer to make a decision in that bootleg. They try to isolate it on one guy who cant both cover and force Plummer.

It's more about gapping up and playing disciplined than any fancy scheme.
Conventional drive blocking lines attempt to use brute force to drive the defender off the line or in one direction or another. Force meets force and the result is often a stalemate. The problem with this zone blocking/1 cut running game for a defense is that it doesn't use force to combat force as the OL often don't really care which way the defender decides to go because whichever route he takes the O-lineman will let him go that way and then use his momentum against him by pushing him even farther in that direction. When you get five guys synchronized and on the same page who are great technicians and quick and mobile enough to take bigger linemen off their feet it can create some huge holes in the line. Discipline is fine but just because you stay home doesn't mean you aren't getting blocked or winding up on the ground...like Haslett said after the 2000 Saints game..."we just had to many guys on the ground".

Having a dominant NT or DT in the middle who can command 2 blockers is the one thing most troublesome for this scheme because it disrupts the flow of the lines lateral movement as a group and creates gaps in the "seal" neccessary for the back to gain the recognition time he needs to spot the hole. The result is a runner who is forced to go before he's ready or take holes he wouldn't otherwise accept. Another thing that most people don't realize about this scheme is that it's very much dependent on the WR's being serious blockers instead of afterthoughts in the secondary. Watch Rod Smith on running plays. This guy's the most consistent blocking WR in the NFL. He'll block down on linebackers. When you see a Denver back go for a big gain, you'll almost always see one or more receivers blocking downfiield. This is one reason I don't think Watts can be a starter. He's to skinny to block anyone consistently.

[Al Wilson]

**** all this talk about the Skins ****ty defense. Watch Shanahan and company run over those dirt bags @mile high baby.

[Circle Orange]

Drink a beer when either team scores. That'll fix it. ;)


Sounds great. Of course I'll be so wasted I'll be clueless about the game, but what the heck...that's what Sportcenter and highlights are for. I figure by Wednesday I'll know the outcome. http://scosoft.com/s/f/d4cb10b.gif

[Merlin]

Once again I find myself disagreeing with many of the posters in the Mane. Last week some posters kept writing about the Jags 2nd rated D, but they forgot to mention their run D was rated 21 in the league (now its ~30 in the league thanks to us). I find the Skins D a lot better, and I have a lot of respect for their DC, but their style of D is not necessarily the type that creates troubles for a Shanny O.

Historically it would seem it was Ds like Ravens in their prime that would shut down the run for the Broncos. The skins rely on all kinds of blitz packages, and I am not too sure this is the best strategy against the Broncos. Although it may be hard to believe, Jake actually has one of the better records against the blitz of current QBs. Further, Jake is actually a more efficient QB when he rolls out of the pocket, which blitz packages may force him to do (in fact, you are probably better off forcing him to work from the pocket).

Second, the Skins D is very fast and quick to pursue, and this is a great strategy against most running games, but as it has already been stated Denver uses a cutback running game. Teams that are fast to pursue can often find themselves out of position to stop the cutback, and are susceptible to play action and bootlegs, 2 of Denver's strengths (as noted by njbil).

Most importantly, I think people are ignoring the bigger question. How will the Skins address Denver's D?

In the past 3 games the DL has been terrorizing much better QBs, with better lines and much better running games (this is not smack on portis but rather on team rushing). The best they have managed to do is score TDs in garbage time (the TDs scored by SD occurred prior to the unleashing of the DL).

So, how does a team with a mediocre QB (his record for the past 2 yrs more than validates this stance, since it makes JP look like Elway), an avg OL (especially compared to SD and KC's OL), an excellent RB but with rushing system that does not suit his needs, OK receivers (but nothing superior to the prior 3 teams) score on Denver's D? Lastly, how will their D and O handle the elevation by the 4th Qtr?

[sirhcyennek81]

Patience. Washington does blitz alot. Leaving their db's alone on single coverge. If the Broncos are patient, they win this game. Washington will hang themselves. defense will do what it does. This will be a fist fight game. Again I say, denver wins, 24-13.

[watermock]

Who is a moron?
I allready said who. Or your deaf and blind too?

[-Slap-]

Drink a beer when either team scores. That'll fix it. ;)
With these defenses, you might not even catch a buzz.

[BurgundyNGold]

With these defenses, you might not even catch a buzz.
That's true, lol. We might have to compensate with two beers and a funnel. :)

[HailRedskins357]

You're not answering the question I asked. Can you?


Your offense is ranked #19, our defense has shut down the #7 Seattle(Sean Alexander 96 yards) Offense, #14 Bears and #17 Dallas rushing offenses. Its not like we have played the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a rushing attack. Denvers passing offense is ranked 26th while your rushing is 3rd over all. Seattle (2nd rated offense in the NFL) is by far a much better well rounded offense with alot more weapons than just a running attack of the Donkeys. This game is going to be a battle of who manages the clock better, with Denver being ranked 32nd in the NFL when it comes to 3rd down conversions(26 percent), and the Redskins are second(50 percent), I think the edge goes to the Redskins.

[HailRedskins357]

Because 1) we lead the NFL in rushing over the last decade and we run on just about everybody, and 2) we're playing at home where your team will be wondering who sucked the oxygen out of their lungs by the middle of the 3rd quarter.

We may not need to score much. You don't.

The altitude thing is a myth, and our guys are probably one of the better conditioned teams i the NFL. Remember Gibbs getting in trouble for putting pads on the guys in the middle of the summer?

[Spider]

Question is can the Skins shut down Denver late in the game ?
We all have seen teams stop Denver early , only to wear down late , and let Denver rack up some big yards .......
Like any other game this will be decided by the lines . except for half time adjustments , these will be huge .......
What coaching staff will make the better half time adjustments ?

[Merlin]

The altitude thing is a myth
Are you that ignorant or are you just a troll. Have you ever read about the relationship between red blood cell counts and altitude? Do you know one of the purposes of red blood cells? Have you even seen players breathing from O2 tanks while playing in Denver? You want to read about myths, go read about your offense Ha! :laugh:

[BurgundyNGold]

Are you that ignorant or are you just a troll. Have you ever read about the relationship between red blood cell counts and altitude? Do you know one of the purposes of red blood cells? Have you even seen players breathing from O2 tanks while playing in Denver? You want to read about myths, go read about your offense Ha! :laugh:
In all fairness, I've heard this too. Over the short term -- like 48 to 72 hours -- the effects are hardly noticeable. After that period, and for the next 10-14 days or so, the effects are very real. After that time, your body adjusts. That's what I've heard anyway.

The altitude does give you a much better workout environment. As such, the Bronco athletes have a disctinct conditioning advantage. As for the oxygen bit, you'll see that on the sideline for most if not all NFL games these days.

[ibleedburgundy]

**** all this talk about the Skins ****ty defense. Watch Shanahan and company run over those dirt bags @mile high baby.

Actually, it's our O-line that are called the dirtbags.

[Merlin]

In all fairness, I've heard this too. Over the short term -- like 48 to 72 hours -- the effects are hardly noticeable.
When you compare the differences in red blood cell count, and the anaerobic nature of the sport, those differences are fairly discernable. Some of the immediate effects of exercising at high altitudes include hyperventilation, increase of submaximal heart rate and submaximal cardiac outputs, body fluids becoming more alkaline due to decreases in carbon dioxide.

Remember, the amount of blood per heart beat and maximum cardiac output remains the same or is slightly lowered, but the differences in red blood cell counts affect how efficiently the body is able to deliver oxygen to the muscles. It is not by accident that you will often read comments from visiting athletes about the effects of altitude.
The altitude does give you a much better workout environment
After about 3-4 months of training at altitude, your red blood cell count increases, which leads to a more efficient oxygen delivery in the body.

As for the oxygen bit, you'll see that on the sideline for most if not all NFL games these days.
I have noticed it a lot more in Denver games, but that could be the media just trying to magnify the effects of altitude.

[BurgundyNGold]

When you compare the differences in red blood cell count, and the anaerobic nature of the sport, those differences are fairly discernable. Some of the immediate effects of exercising at high altitudes include hyperventilation, increase of submaximal heart rate and submaximal cardiac outputs, body fluids becoming more alkaline due to decreases in carbon dioxide.

Remember, the amount of blood per heart beat and maximum cardiac output remains the same or is slightly lowered, but the differences in red blood cell counts affect how efficiently the body is able to deliver oxygen to the muscles. It is not by accident that you will often read comments from visiting athletes about the effects of altitude.
It makes perfect sense to me, and I won't dispute this. However, I have heard from various other sources about people who do. Maybe what I'm hearing it like ID -- "science" to fit a predetermined conclusion. ;)

[footstepsfrom#27]

I allready said who. Or your deaf and blind too?
This is from somebody so ridiculed on this board that the very mention of your name elilcits comments from multiple posters who consider you a complete idiot...and considering nothing antagonistic was said to you...how much more obvious could it be who the real moron is?

[footstepsfrom#27]

Footsteps, you're setting yourself up big time here. I'll be on here and should the Broncos run wild on the skins D, I'll break down EVERYTHING for you and you can gloat all you want that you predicted right. However, if the Broncos run game is ineffective, you are banned from starting threads and keeping them going by saying the same sh!t over and over and over and over........ :hitself:

sidenote: I'll make this in caps locks so it is clear. THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME DOES NOT MATTER. THIS IS ONLY ABOUT THE BRONCOS RUNNING GAME AND ITS EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST THE REDSKINS DEFENSE.
Ugly ugly game...which could have easily gone the other way. Unfortunately for the Skins, you only get so many wins where the ball just happens to bounce your way...and three in a row left the Broncos as the team due for luck to smile their way. In any case, irrespective of the score, I do believe that the point has been made regarding our running game as well as Tatum Bell's talent.

We run on just about everybody.

[Rock Chalk]

In all fairness, I've heard this too. Over the short term -- like 48 to 72 hours -- the effects are hardly noticeable. After that period, and for the next 10-14 days or so, the effects are very real. After that time, your body adjusts. That's what I've heard anyway.

The altitude does give you a much better workout environment. As such, the Bronco athletes have a disctinct conditioning advantage. As for the oxygen bit, you'll see that on the sideline for most if not all NFL games these days.
I read a study about oxygen on the sideline and how it doesnt help the players. IN fact, breathing of pure oxygen at altitude like that has been known to be detrimental to the performance of athletes. Not always, but there was corresponding evidence to support the claim. I wish I had a link still, but it had to do with not normally breathing pure oxygen and then going back out and breathing the thin air actually does more harm than good.

[BurgundyNGold]

I read a study about oxygen on the sideline and how it doesnt help the players. IN fact, breathing of pure oxygen at altitude like that has been known to be detrimental to the performance of athletes. Not always, but there was corresponding evidence to support the claim. I wish I had a link still, but it had to do with not normally breathing pure oxygen and then going back out and breathing the thin air actually does more harm than good.
It would make sense. Oxygen is a higly reactive substance. Scientists theorize that oxygen, while giving us life is also the major cause of cellular break down and consequential age effects. I don't know that breathing a 100% mixute of it would be good in the long run for your body.

[Mediator12]

I read a study about oxygen on the sideline and how it doesnt help the players. IN fact, breathing of pure oxygen at altitude like that has been known to be detrimental to the performance of athletes. Not always, but there was corresponding evidence to support the claim. I wish I had a link still, but it had to do with not normally breathing pure oxygen and then going back out and breathing the thin air actually does more harm than good.

The oxygen on the sidelines is a linear solution to a circular problem. Oxygen is not absorbed into the lungs and by the necessary body functions any better by having a pure oxygen mix. The lungs are not set up to inhale pure oxygen they are set up to breathe atmosphere and break down the mixture of gases. The article you are referring to may point this out. The effects of the pure oxygen are completely placebo, but it does not stop teams from doing it.

[RedskinBronco]

Ugly ugly game...which could have easily gone the other way. Unfortunately for the Skins, you only get so many wins where the ball just happens to bounce your way...and three in a row left the Broncos as the team due for luck to smile their way. In any case, irrespective of the score, I do believe that the point has been made regarding our running game as well as Tatum Bell's talent.

We run on just about everybody.


I have to admit the running game was about as effective as it gets against the Redskins. Yeah the skins missed some tackles, but still Tatum Bell was a legit back yesterday. I hope he can finally realize all that potential. I told you I'd be back and you know what...all Bronco fans should be psyched because RIGHT NOW the O-line is playing with attitude. The Denver game is daring anyone to stop them. No tricks or deception, they are flat out playing some smashmouth in a lot of these games. I didn't think it was dominant because early on we didn't really do that well and well KC is KC. I thought the Jags had a bad game, but now Im seeing that this year's Bronco running game is actually scary. Denver has always run well, but I don't know there is something a little different to it this year. The RBs seem to have a swagger.

[Tredici]

Your offense is ranked #19, our defense has shut down the #7 Seattle(Sean Alexander 96 yards) Offense, #14 Bears and #17 Dallas rushing offenses. Its not like we have played the bottom of the barrel when it comes to a rushing attack. Denvers passing offense is ranked 26th while your rushing is 3rd over all. Seattle (2nd rated offense in the NFL) is by far a much better well rounded offense with alot more weapons than just a running attack of the Donkeys. This game is going to be a battle of who manages the clock better, with Denver being ranked 32nd in the NFL when it comes to 3rd down conversions(26 percent), and the Redskins are second(50 percent), I think the edge goes to the Redskins.

Well, in all fairness the Skins did manage the clock better. Congrats.

[HailRedskins357]

Are you that ignorant or are you just a troll. Have you ever read about the relationship between red blood cell counts and altitude? Do you know one of the purposes of red blood cells? Have you even seen players breathing from O2 tanks while playing in Denver? You want to read about myths, go read about your offense Ha! :laugh:

Yeah our offense was pretty funny, and quite the myth. Congrats on the W anyway.

[Got_Moss89?]

We couldn't yesterday...thats all i'm gonna say. Bell ran all over us.

[HailRedskins357]

We gave up the 2 big runs that killed us, I am not discounting Denvers running game, on the other hand I am glad not every team we face can break off big runs like that.

[orangeatheist]

We gave up the 2 big runs that killed us, I am not discounting Denvers running game, on the other hand I am glad not every team we face can break off big runs like that.

Learn from what you were taught in Denver. Sew up Holmes this week and you can count on a "W".

Good luck this week in KC and thanks for stopping by.