'05 Plummer playing similar to '04 Plummer

[Blart]

Let me preface this with my bias: I am a Jake Plummer fan.

But seeing all the ESPN experts saying,
"Plummer's numbers are way down this season and that has resulted in better production for the entire offense."
Or,
"Jake is more intelligent this year."

Got on my nerves, so I decided to do a bit of research:

2004, after first 4 games
Rating: 85
INT: 2
CMP / ATT: 79 / 134
Played: KC, SD, JAC, TB


2005, after first 4 games
Rating: 87.5
INT: 3
CMP / ATT: 77 / 129
Played: KC, SD, JAC, MIA

[Popps]

Oops.

There goes that "leash" theory.

[Rock Chalk]

Let me preface this with my bias: I am a Jake Plummer fan.

But seeing all the experts saying,
"Plummer sure is throwing less this year."
Or,
"Jake is more intelligent this year."

Got on my nerves, so I decided to do a bit of research:

2004, after first 4 games
Rating: 85
INT: 2
CMP / ATT: 79 / 134
Played: KC, SD, JAC, TB


2005, after first 4 games
Rating: 87.5
INT: 3
CMP / ATT: 77 / 129
Played: KC, SD, JAC, MIA
Yeah but how many TDs and yards?

[GreatBronco16]

He's had 5 less attempts according to your stats. How is that throwing far less? Being that you had the 'less' bolded.

[RhymesayersDU]

He's had 5 less attempts according to your stats. How is that throwing far less? Being that you had the 'less' bolded.
That's the point. Everybody is saying how he's throwing far less, and he's not really.

[BMF Bronco]

He's had 5 less attempts according to your stats. How is that throwing far less? Being that you had the 'less' bolded.I am pretty sure that's the whole point of his post.

[Blart]

He's had 5 less attempts according to your stats. How is that throwing far less? Being that you had the 'less' bolded.

Because when I see crap like this on ESPN:

Plummer's numbers are way down this season and that has resulted in better production for the entire offense.

It makes me angry. 5 fewer passes is not "way down".

[bronco militia]

what about yards?

[BMF Bronco]

Because when I see crap like this on ESPN:



It makes me angry. 5 fewer passes is not "way down".
I got your back bro! ^5

[Kaylore]

This is a good example of why stats mean nothing. The Dolphins game has skewed this team to look worse than they're playing right now. You can see the analysts that don't watch us make similar comparisons. People that have watched him this year see a complete difference.

[watermock]

His two interceptions came in desperation time against Miami.

Sit down and shut up.

Blart "I'm gay for the broncos"

This is classic dimwit that falls in the room and should literally be shot.

[BMF Bronco]

His two interceptions came in desperation time against Miami.

Sit down and shut up.

Blart "I'm gay for the broncos"

This is classic dimwit that falls in the room and should literally be shot.
wow, a bit of animosity there Mock?

[Rascal]

FYI...Jake has thrown for 787 yards thus far compared to 912 last year.

[bronco militia]

FYI...Jake has thrown for 787 yards thus far compared to 912 last year.

thanks

he still sucks Ha!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

04 Plummer - 912 yards

05 Plummer - 787 yards

I've only seen 2.5 of your games, so I can't say for sure, but how much freedom is Plummer being given to audible after last year's SD goalline debacle?

[Taco John]

Oops.

There goes that "leash" theory.



How do you figure? Jake didn't start having problems last year until the leash started getting looser and looser, and Jake was being asked to do more in the offense.

Jake, to me, looked like a Superbowl capable quarterback early in the season last year. Late in the season, he didn't.

[Taco John]

Jake, to me, looked like a Superbowl capable quarterback early in the season last year. Late in the season, he didn't.


Is this statement in left field? :kiddingme

What do I have wrong here?

[BMF Bronco]

Is this statement in left field? :kiddingme

What do I have wrong here?
that's not really the best litnus test in the world, are you telling me Trent Dilfer looks like a SB QB, how about Kerry Collins, hell I will even go as far as saying Kurt Warner.

[Rock Chalk]

04 Plummer - 912 yards

05 Plummer - 787 yards

I've only seen 2.5 of your games, so I can't say for sure, but how much freedom is Plummer being given to audible after last year's SD goalline debacle?
According to Taco and Mediator, Jake doesnt know how to audible. He's too stoopid.

[Mediator12]

According to Taco and Mediator, Jake doesnt know how to audible. He's too stoopid.

Stop putting words in my mouth alec. I have said that it came from shanahan last year, not me. I wish he would audible. Then we would know if he can do it or not. Right now, he does not get that freedom enough. I believe his presnap reads have been very good the last two weeks. Now, we shall see how long that lasts.

[Taco John]

According to Taco and Mediator, Jake doesnt know how to audible. He's too stoopid.

I certainly never said that. I don't think intelligence has anything to do with this. I think Jake is plenty smart. His smarts aren't what I question. It's his erraticness. That very erraticness that gets him on the leash in the first place. Anyone can see that Mike and Gary have to manage Jake's erraticness. We've all seen the results of what happens when that erraticness isn't managed.

I think Jake has done an admirable job, save the first game of the season, which he traditionally has stumbled on. Problem is, he has also traditionally stumbled at the end of the season the last couple years he's been here. I think this third season will be a test for Jake to maintain a controlled level of play throughout the entire season. It's great that he's off to a great start, and I'm happy to see things are clicking. But I don't get too high or too low in October on anything. We can come out of October 4-4 and still make a run at the playoffs. It's how teams perform in the clutch stretch of the season that counts the most. You can go undefeated in the first 8 games of the season and still lose every game after that.

In the last two seasons, we've got off to some roaring starts. I just think it's time to expect a roaring finish to boot.

[Taco John]

that's not really the best litnus test in the world, are you telling me Trent Dilfer looks like a SB QB, how about Kerry Collins, hell I will even go as far as saying Kurt Warner.



No. That's not what I'm telling you at all. What I'm saying is Jake, to me, looked like a Superbowl capable quarterback early in the season last year. Late in the season, he didn't.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Plummer is 1-for-17 on passes traveling farther than 21 yards this year.

Ouch.

I don't know how many attempts he had over 20 yards after 4 games last year, there's no way to find out unless you have the games on DVD I believe.

[Popps]

How do you figure? Jake didn't start having problems last year until the leash started getting looser and looser

How deep into your @$$ did you have to go to pull that one out?

Looser and looser?

You think Shanahan just said **** it about half-way through the season?

"Hey Jake, I'm tired of winning with this ball-control offense, go out there and chuck it up for grabs."

You know, that must have been right around the Atlanta game. Remember that one, Taco? Our defense gave up 41 points. Jake threw for freaking 500 yards in the game, and it wasn't enough. 28 points from our offense wasn't even enough to keep it close.

How about our defensive averages through the first 8 games?

Points allowed: 17

The last 8 games:

Points allowed: 24

Gee, I wonder if there is a correlation between Jake having to put the ball up for grabs and our defense not being able to keep games close?
I wonder if that "leash" might have something to do with actual game circumstances, and not some imaginary idea floating around in your head?

[Taco John]

I don't know how many attempts he had over 20 yards after 4 games last year, there's no way to find out unless you have the games on DVD I believe.


There is... Check this out:

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2005/week1

change the 2005 to 2004

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2004/week1

or change the 2004 to 2003

etc.
http://www.nfl.com/scores/2003/week1

[BMF Bronco]

Plummer is 1-for-17 on passes traveling farther than 21 yards this year.

Ouch.

I don't know how many attempts he had over 20 yards after 4 games last year, there's no way to find out unless you have the games on DVD I believe.
that's partially due to mr. underachiever of the still early year Lelie not running full speed.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

There is... Check this out:

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2005/week1

change the 2005 to 2004

http://www.nfl.com/scores/2004/week1

or change the 2004 to 2003

etc.
http://www.nfl.com/scores/2003/week1

That only shows completions, not attempts.

[BMF Bronco]

No. That's not what I'm telling you at all. What I'm saying is Jake, to me, looked like a Superbowl capable quarterback early in the season last year. Late in the season, he didn't.
Ahh, got ya.

[Rock Chalk]

Hey Jake, I'm tired of winning with this ball-control offense, go out there and chuck it up for grabs."
I dont care who you are, that's funny stuff there.

[RhymesayersDU]

Nobody's gay for Moleman.

[Taco John]

How deep into your @$$ did you have to go to pull that one out?

Looser and looser?

You think Shanahan just said **** it about half-way through the season?

"Hey Jake, I'm tired of winning with this ball-control offense, go out there and chuck it up for grabs."


Not at all. I think Shanahan started feeding more and more of the offense to Jake, and giving him more and more freedom. I think we got into situations at times where we *needed* something out of Jake and sometimes he delivered and other times he threw it up for grabs... and even other times he threw the pass behind the receiver... or just at fingertips reach...


You know, that must have been right around the Atlanta game. Remember that one, Taco? Our defense gave up 41 points. Jake threw for freaking 500 yards in the game, and it wasn't enough. 28 points from our offense wasn't even enough to keep it close.

How about our defensive averages through the first 8 games?

Points allowed: 17

The last 8 games:

Points allowed: 24

Gee, I wonder if there is a correlation between Jake having to put the ball up for grabs and our defense not being able to keep games close?
I wonder if that "leash" might have something to do with actual game circumstances, and not some imaginary idea floating around in your head?

Absolutely that leash has to deal with actual game circumstances. And you and I are in complete agreement: Our defense has to get it done if we expect to win.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Looking at the splits, I don't see a real leash, unless it's something like audibiling.

Pass Attempts 11-20 yards

2004: 104

2005: 23

Pass Attempts 21-30 yards

2004: 28

2005: 7

Pass Attempts 31-40 yards

2004: 28

2005: 5

Pass Attempts 41+ yards

2004: 5

2005: 8

[Taco John]

True or false:

It is part of the Broncos gameplan to keep Plummer playing under control and limit his erratic tendancies.

[BMF Bronco]

True or false:

It is part of the Broncos gameplan to keep Plummer playing under control and limit his erratic tendancies.
Yes, that is true.

However, he is going to make stupid decisions no matter what. He made one last week in the very beginning of the game when he rolled out and was going to get crushed by the DE and he lobs it up in Tater's general direction and easily could have been intercepted. (holy sheeeit, talk about a run-on sentence. :dummy: )

[Mile High Shack]

True or false:

It is part of the Broncos gameplan to keep Plummer playing under control and limit his erratic tendancies.

True

but I'd say that is most coordinators gameplan

limit turnovers and keep control of the ball game with the running game

well, unless your name is Martz

[watermock]

Jake is kinda like Dinty Moore Beef Stew...you wash him down with beer..

[Hotrod]

Absolutely that leash has to deal with actual game circumstances. And you and I are in complete agreement: Our defense has to get it done if we expect to win.

This is why Plummer IMO looks better this year. The gameplanning and playcalling are less aggressive (for lack of a better term) because Shanny and Jake know its ok to punt the ball. There is no reason in the world to force the issue just take the play if its there if not punt let the D do their thing and try again.

[Mediator12]

How deep into your @$$ did you have to go to pull that one out?

Looser and looser?

You think Shanahan just said **** it about half-way through the season?

"Hey Jake, I'm tired of winning with this ball-control offense, go out there and chuck it up for grabs."

You know, that must have been right around the Atlanta game. Remember that one, Taco? Our defense gave up 41 points. Jake threw for freaking 500 yards in the game, and it wasn't enough. 28 points from our offense wasn't even enough to keep it close.

How about our defensive averages through the first 8 games?

Points allowed: 17

The last 8 games:

Points allowed: 24

Gee, I wonder if there is a correlation between Jake having to put the ball up for grabs and our defense not being able to keep games close?
I wonder if that "leash" might have something to do with actual game circumstances, and not some imaginary idea floating around in your head?

Since when is 153/8=24 popps. Last time I checked that was 19.1. You might try a calculator, they work wonders. Wait, I forgot any facts must match you rediculous theories so who cares if they are true right?

And considering the Defense scored as many TD's as the Offense in the OAK Loss and the offense averaged a meager 18.2 points a game for the three AFC West losses I fail to see your point at all.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The gameplanning and playcalling are less aggressive

Are they? Look at my splits.

[Popps]

I think Shanahan started feeding more and more of the offense to Jake, and giving him more and more freedom. I think we got into situations at times where we *needed* something out of Jake and sometimes he delivered and other times he threw it up for grabs... and even other times he threw the pass behind the receiver... or just at fingertips reach...

Shanahan didn't just decide to start doing things differently. We got into situations where we couldn't just be one-dimensional on offense. We went .500 in our last 6 games. Not great, but it was good enough to get us into the playoffs. Elam makes a FG or two, and Griffin holds onto a simple handoff, and we're 12-4, and Jake's only lost 6 games as a Bronco starter in three years.

Our defensive points allowed average went up by a TD in the second half of the season, and saved its best for last... giving up 49 points to a team in a playoff game one year after giving up 41.

Our defense stopped playing in the second half of last year. We had absolutely no pass rush and folded like a cheap tent against anyone with a remotely decent offense:

Cin: 23
Atlanta: 41
K.C.: 45
Indy: 49
Oak: 25

They feasted on crappy offenses:

New Orleans: 13
Miami: 17
Tennessee: 16

We don't have John Elway and Terrell Davis anymore. If you want to win games with this team, you do it by shutting down opposing offenses and allowing our offense time to establish the run and score 25 points or so.
You can wish Plummer had competition until you're blue in the face. He doesn't.... the staff knows he's good enough to win, and they made the proper off-season moves (attempts) for the last two years.

[Popps]

Since when is 153/8=24 popps. Last time I checked that was 19.1. You might try a calculator, they work wonders. Wait, I forgot any facts must match you rediculous theories so who cares if they are true right?

And considering the Defense scored as many TD's as the Offense in the OAK Loss and the offense averaged a meager 18.2 points a game for the three AFC West losses I fail to see your point at all.

Not going to add again, but I'll take your word for it.

O.K.. you're right, then. Our defense only allowed 5 more ppg in the second half of the season while collapsing any time they faced a remotely potent offense.

Keep up the good work.

[DBroncos4life]

True or false:

It is part of the Broncos gameplan to keep Plummer playing under control and limit his erratic tendancies.

False
I would say the game plan is in place because we now have a guy that can punt the ball more then 25 yards and our D looks sick as hell, but thats just me. If we couldn't punt or play D I bet our gameplan would look different then how it does now.

[Hotrod]

False
I would say the game plan is in place because we now have a guy that can punt the ball more then 25 yards and our D looks sick as hell, but thats just me. If we couldn't punt or play D I bet our gameplan would look different then how it does now.

Thats what I was trying to say right there. The pressure taken off of the O by the D and ST is why Jake is having a solid year and will continue to do so.

[Kaylore]

I still don't get why people harp on Jake. We build our team around the run game and so the pass game is designed to suppliment that. People say "Well take away the run and Jake struggles." Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady are probably the only Quarterbacks in the league who don't struggle w/out the run game.

[Hotrod]

I still don't get why people harp on Jake. We build our team around the run game and so the pass game is designed to suppliment that. People say "Well take away the run and Jake struggles." Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady are probably the only Quarterbacks in the league who don't struggle w/out the run game.

Good post but I would add Mcnabb to the list.

[Taco John]

You can wish Plummer had competition until you're blue in the face. He doesn't.... the staff knows he's good enough to win, and they made the proper off-season moves (attempts) for the last two years.


Actually, the only thing that I'm wishing for right now is defensive dominance. I think we all understand that if our defense doesn't dominate, we don't win. I agree that we can win with Plummer if our Defense is dominant.

[Popps]

Here's more interesting stats for you stat-folk..

First 6 games:

Defense allowed average of 12 points
Record: 5-1

Next ten games:
Defense allows 23 ppg
Record: 5-5

[Popps]

Actually, the only thing that I'm wishing for right now is defensive dominance. I think we all understand that if our defense doesn't dominate, we don't win. I agree that we can win with Plummer if our Defense is dominant.

I think that's all people have been saying.

[Taco John]

You are absolutely right Popps. I think we agree.

There is no way we can expect this offense to consistently put up over 23 points per game. Our defense needs to shut down opposing teams if we expect to go anywhere this year.

Whatever Jake does or doesn't do, this is the year of the Defense. They are our first and last line of defense.

[Taco John]

I think that's all people have been saying.



That's pretty much all I've been saying.

[Kaylore]

Good post but I would add Mcnabb to the list.
How can I forget that guy? He's better than Peyton in my opinion. He hasn't had a real dangerous run game or dangerous receivers and still been one of the best.

[BMF Bronco]

How can I forget that guy? He's better than Peyton in my opinion. He hasn't had a real dangerous run game or dangerous receivers and still been one of the best.
Not to mention he's a damn soldier! Always playing injured.

[Lidderer]

There is no way we can expect this offense to consistently put up over 23 points per game. Our defense needs to shut down opposing teams if we expect to go anywhere this year.

Whatever Jake does or doesn't do, this is the year of the Defense. They are our first and last line of defense.

Only 8 teams last year averaged over 23 pts per game--and that's not even figuring in Defensive scores(which I'm thinking you'd cite as not really attributable to the O). So that means that 24 of the NFL's 32 teams have as their "first and last line of defense" their D?

You're essentially saying that for 75% of the league it is unrealistic for them to ascribe to the theory you posited in your fantasy colts-v-broncos playoff gameplan?

[Lidderer]

actually, if you take into account Defensive-points, that immediately takes away buffalo(who had 4 D TDs, dropping them below "over 23 ppg"), philly, and minnesota, while leaving green bay and new england at JUST 24 and a bit.

So basically only Indy, KC, and SD should ever count on their offenses. Everybody else: D.

[Popps]

That's pretty much all I've been saying.


:crazy:

[Taco John]

Only 8 teams last year averaged over 23 pts per game--and that's not even figuring in Defensive scores(which I'm thinking you'd cite as not really attributable to the O). So that means that 24 of the NFL's 32 teams have as their "first and last line of defense" their D?

You're essentially saying that for 75% of the league it is unrealistic for them to ascribe to the theory you posited in your fantasy colts-v-broncos playoff gameplan?


True or false:

It is unrealistic for 75% of the league's teams to expect to win the Superbowl?

[Lidderer]

True or false:

It is unrealistic for 75% of the league's teams to expect to win the Superbowl?

True or false:

You set parameters willy-nilly and make hyperbolic(which see: 24 teams basically put everything on their D) comments regarding these whimsical numbers, and, when said theory is proven to be ponderous or even nonsensical, choose to reply as evasively as humanly possible.

Also, what?

[Taco John]

True or false:

You set parameters willy-nilly and make hyperbolic(which see: 24 teams basically put everything on their D) comments regarding these whimsical numbers, and, when said theory is proven to be ponderous or even nonsensical, choose to reply as evasively as humanly possible.

Also, what?


False.

[Tredici]

What is Jake's sack count?

It doesn't surprise me when he completes a pass. It surprises me that he's learning its a good option to eat the ball every now and then....

Besides, I like to egg on the stat debate.

[Taco John]

"24 teams basically put everything on their D"


How many of those 24 made it to the Superbowl last year?

[Popps]

actually, if you take into account Defensive-points, that immediately takes away buffalo(who had 4 D TDs, dropping them below "over 23 ppg"), philly, and minnesota, while leaving green bay and new england at JUST 24 and a bit.

So basically only Indy, KC, and SD should ever count on their offenses. Everybody else: D.


http://www.worldchamprec.com/ytmnd.jpg

[Lidderer]

False.


Touche*









*=typo

[Tredici]

True or false:

It is unrealistic for 75% of the league's teams to expect to win the Superbowl?

False. More like 85%...

I heard Shanahan talking once about how few teams (he used the term handful) are even geared to winning Championships. Bowlen wants to win. That is not the motivation of every owner out there.

[Taco John]

It doesn't surprise me when he completes a pass. It surprises me that he's learning its a good option to eat the ball every now and then....



*nods*

[Lidderer]

How many of those 24 made it to the Superbowl last year?


1 of them.

oh and the other super bowl team's D held the Indianapolis colts to 3 pts in the AFC semi-finals

[footstepsfrom#27]

I've posted some of this information on the extremeskins board with predictably bizarre response, but if you want to view it: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=118651&highlight=marino

The thread seems to have been removed from their board or salted away where you can't find it so I had to do a search but in a nutshell here's the gist of this:

Plummer is obviously running a more conservative offense so far this year than last, but part of that has to do with the nature of the teams we've played so far. Kansas City and San Diego both have explosive offensives and a game plan built on the run and controlling the time of possession was the smart thing to do. Miami is an aberation, I think anyone who is objective can see the obvious problems caused by the combination of our defense getting worn down in the heat and loosing MA plus the top 3 corners, so throw that out as something that's not generally indicative of how they want to manage a game. Jacksonville supposedly had the tough defense and so I think Shanny wanted to keep it close and make sure we didn't give them anything they didn't earn.

The constant accusation against Plummer is that he's still a turnover machine who makes bad decisions but I ask you all this question; If we didn't have Jake's Arizona career as a backdrop for a predisposed opinion about him before he got to Denver, would we still see him as more prone to bad decisions and stupid mistakes or turnovers than othr QB's?

I submit we would not. The reason we would not is because Jake Plummer has essentially had not one, but two careers; during the one in Denver he has been a markedly less mistake prone quarterback than he was in Arizona. On the surface of it that seems like a hard statement to justify, especially when we all remember the famous left handed pass, and a few other glaring mistakes as well as the 20 INT's he threw last year. I acknowledge this but I think it's obvious, and entirely reasonable to expect old habbits die hard. However, I remind you all that every QB in the league makes some obvious mistakes at times, and once again, I'm asking the question, "Would you think Plummer is MORE mistake prone and tends to turn the ball over more than other quarterbacks if you didn't have his Arizona career to look at also?

It's been pointed out on here that about a half dozen of his INT's last year came after they hit Bronco receivers in the hands, including all 4 in the San Diego game. That obviously inflated his INT numbers in '04, but forget that for a moment. How does Jake stack up in terms of his intereceptions in Denver vs his time in Arizona? Here is the comparison:

Arizona: 2,754 pass attempts/114 INT's= 1 INT per 24.1 attempts
Denver: 952 pass attempts/30 INT's= 1 INT per 31.7 attempts

That's a huge difference. How does Jake's percentage of interceptions to attempts IN DENVER compare to other NFL quarterbacks over the course of their careers? Check it out:

Jake Plummer(Denver): 952 pass attempts/30 INT's= 1 INT per 31.7 attempts
Dan Marino: 8,358 attempts/252 INT's= 1 INT per 33.1 attempts
John Elway: 7,250 attempts/226 INT's= 1 INT per 32.07 attempts
Peyton Manning: 3,994 attempts/122 INT's= 1 INT per 32.7 attempts
Brett Favre: 7,162 attempts/234 INT's= 1 INT per 30.7 attempts
Troy Aikman: 4,715 attempts/141 INT's= 1 INT per 33.4 attempts

As you can see, the difference between Plummer's percentage of INT's to attempts is very comparable during his time in Denver with these other 5 HOF caliber quarterbacks. I am not suggesting Plummer is a HOF quarterback, only that during his Denver career (which is all I really care about) his tendency to throw interceptions is not something that deserves the constant criticism he's gotten since those numbers are very much in line with what some of the greats have also done.

Throw in the fact that Jake has a 70% win percentage in Denver and 26 4th quarter comebacks for ties or wins, which puts him on track to approach Elway and Marino by the end of his career in that department and it's obvious that this guy is the most under appreciated/over criticized QB in the NFL right now. People want to continue to judge Plummer on his what he did in Arizona, while forgetting to look at the fact he's made serious strides towards getting better and eliiminating his mistakes in Denver. I've been on record in this forum for suggesting Jake may not be the answer we need to win a Superbowl, and that we should draft a young QB, but while I still think that's a smart idea, I'm also willing to give credit where credit is due, and Plummer has not been the turnover machine and field general failure in his Bronco career with decisions that people think he's been. Jake suffers by comparison to a lot of other QB's...he doesn't have Marino or Aikman's ability to thread the needle with pinpoint passes...doesn't have Elway's jaw dropping athletic ability or rocket launcher arm...doesn't scramble quite as good as Steve Young...doesn't have the pretty boy look that lets Marino do TV commercials...etc...but Jake is a leader and a great competitor...basically he's a lunch pail blue collar guy whose just a winner if he's given the right situation and set of circumstances in which to play.

He might have that now.

[-Slap-]

FYI...Jake has thrown for 787 yards thus far compared to 912 last year.
This is the point. Shorter, higher percentage passes. Sad that it needs to be spelled out for some folks.

By the way, Blart, week five was when Flakey Jake embarked on his NINE interception in four game skid. Thanks for putting the whammy on us this weekend.......:thumbsup:

[Rascal]

By the way, Blart, week five was when Flakey Jake embarked on his NINE interception in four game skid. Thanks for putting the whammy on us this weekend.......:thumbsup:

BAN HIS ASS!!!

[elsid13]

IF I wasn't lazy, I search and post the stats that show the number of passes to backs and te this year vs. last year. Followed by the % of passes within 5 yards of scrimmage comparision. I think you would major difference. Jake as done better job of finding the check down reciever this year compared to last

[llayne]

I' am sure the comparison has been made but we sort of look like the Baltmore Ravens but with a mobile Dilfer and a bit better offense. In fact, I like the way this team has been winning because for a large part this team is winning the way you almost always have to win in the playoffs these days: special temas and defense. Our defense is starting to resemble something more like the Bucs or the old Ravens.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think it has more to do with Jake review every single snap of last season...and he's taking more sacks....so in short and studied and manned-up.

[Garcia Bronco]

And what killed us late last year was the offense giving away the ball on our side of the field.

[Garcia Bronco]

And you're not going to find what I posted in a stat book

[elsid13]

And you're not going to find what I posted in a stat book


I figure it was because hokies couldn't count past ten ;D

[Garcia Bronco]

I figure it was because hokies couldn't count past ten ;D


We count at least 10 wins a year...try again bitch!! Ha!

[elsid13]

We count at least 10 wins a year...try again b****!! Ha!


Wow, didn't know your basketball team actual won that much.

[Lidderer]

jake averaged 4 views of gamefootage this year in contrast to last years 2.4(excluding commercials)

[DB-Freak]

jake averaged 4 views of gamefootage this year in contrast to last years 2.4(excluding commercials)
LOL

[Circle Orange]

I still think dude's eyesight is bad.

[baja]

Now this is a very good thread.

All you really need to know is this Jake's third season in Shanny's system, he will now grow to great heights here and factor in this defense (that most thought would suck) and we will rock.

BTW nice to see Popps and TJ back at it again, very entertaining.

[Odysseus]

BTW nice to see Popps and TJ back at it again, very entertaining.

I know. It's great!

[Odysseus]

IPeyton Manning, and Tom Brady are probably the only Quarterbacks in the league who don't struggle w/out the run game.

I guess McNabb and maybe a couple more. This point should be made into a sticky or something. I keep bringing this up and it's taking forever for people to get this.

It's easier to build a franchise defensive team than to find this one holy grail QB whose got all the goodies. I really hope the Broncos get deep in the playoffs before they start to elevate Elway to sainthood.

I'm all about the defense! Let me say once more with feeling!

Originally Posted by Lidderer
actually, if you take into account Defensive-points, that immediately takes away buffalo(who had 4 D TDs, dropping them below "over 23 ppg"), philly, and minnesota, while leaving green bay and new england at JUST 24 and a bit.

So basically only Indy, KC, and SD should ever count on their offenses. Everybody else: D.

The only name I want for our defense is Superbowl champions. Anything else is just something I have to buy on a t-shirt.

[anthonypacino]

This is in response to post #66 on this thread, it is very long so I don't want to repeat it.
You asked if we would all have a different opinion of Jake if he did not have the backdrop of his Arizona career in his past. And I can honestly say NO, He hasn't done anything different than the other QB's Denver has had since Elway left. The sum of Brister, Griese, Ferote have given us the exact same results as Plummer has, no playoff wins. None of those other guys were perfect (far from). Every QB that plays in Denver will be compared to Elway until they do something to make us forget, just win a playoff game! We won some games with Griese but after a few years that was not enough and he had the benifit of "no baggage" and he was shown the door. Plummer will be the same way until he can win a playoff game. IMO

[footstepsfrom#27]

This is in response to post #66 on this thread, it is very long so I don't want to repeat it.
You asked if we would all have a different opinion of Jake if he did not have the backdrop of his Arizona career in his past. And I can honestly say NO, He hasn't done anything different than the other QB's Denver has had since Elway left. The sum of Brister, Griese, Ferote have given us the exact same results as Plummer has, no playoff wins. None of those other guys were perfect (far from). Every QB that plays in Denver will be compared to Elway until they do something to make us forget, just win a playoff game! We won some games with Griese but after a few years that was not enough and he had the benifit of "no baggage" and he was shown the door. Plummer will be the same way until he can win a playoff game. IMO
Jake Plummer did not give the Indianapolis Colts 90 points, 1,008 yards of total offense, including 847 passing yards and 9 TD passes in two games.

John Elway did not win a playoff game in Denver until his 4th season, and was 0-2 just like Jake when he won his first one.

Your response is ridiculous.

[Odysseus]

Every QB that plays in Denver will be compared to Elway until they do something to make us forget, just win a playoff game!

You forget people are whiners. (I think this is a karmic law or something.)

If Jake totally dismantles the Colts in the first round of the playoffs what do you think they will say if he loses to the Steelers? At least Jake got us a win in the playoffs? We'll have to hear endless tears about how the Steelers dominated us. Oh Boo Hoo! Sniff. Sniff. No gratitude.

Jake wins the Superbowl. He single handed lifts this team to the platform. What do you think the first things fans are going to say? He's nothing if he doesn't get back to back? He's nothing without a dominant defense? ZERO gratitude.

Denver Broncos fans have high standards which are good but it comes with a price and a lot of that is constant crybaby tears over nothing. I agree with Meck77, OSKIE and some of the other posters that get it. If we as fans wants so much shouldn't we pony up a little noise for our boys? I mean WTF did we do to even deserve a winning team in Colorado all these years anyways?

I agree that getting some final results matter and that you among others are doing their part but it comes down to me telling most fans to STFU, get a cowbell and get down to the stadium and DO something! I think it's your duty as a fan to visit OF1 and drink a beer on Tiger. Hello? Any takers?

In the words of Saint Elway "Blessed are poor in spirit for we have stomped thine azz and worth thee humble". Amen.

[Odysseus]

John Elway did not win a playoff game in Denver until his 4th season, and was 0-2 just like Jake when he won his first one.


STFU, grab a cowbell and get down to the stadium!

Sorry dude. I was just practicing. My bad!

The trick to Jake has always been NOT that he gets interceptions but WHEN.

I don't care about all the numbers. Jake's "erractic" play comes from people's correct understanding that something isn't quite right. I like your posts and the points you were making.

I think if Jake throws about four more games like the last two that THOSE numbers will be interesting to see.

:thumbs:

[Popps]

Jake Plummer did not give the Indianapolis Colts 90 points, 1,008 yards of total offense, including 847 passing yards and 9 TD passes in two games.


Wow. Those numbers are fking staggering. Two of the most horrific performances you'll ever see by a defense in a playoff game.

[footstepsfrom#27]

[B]The trick to Jake has always been NOT that he gets interceptions but WHEN.

I don't care about all the numbers. Jake's "erractic" play comes from people's correct understanding that something isn't quite right. I like your posts and the points you were making.

I think if Jake throws about four more games like the last two that THOSE numbers will be interesting to see.

:thumbs:
I agree it's about "when" to a point. I'm willing to bet that if you look at some of the games Elway and Marino played you can find innoportune INT's also, but that's been largely forgotten because of their success. My point is that all Jake's mistakes are magnifed because we refuse to let him get past the Arizona years...years in which he was basically asked to do things their coaches had no business asking him to do. At the very least, the points I''m making should make Bronco fans look more objectively at what he does on the field instead of the knee jerk reactions every time he throws an INT.

[Odysseus]

At the very least, the points I''m making should make Bronco fans look more objectively at what he does on the field instead of the knee jerk reactions every time he throws an INT.

I think you make a valid points.

Elway was knocked for YEARS by the stat monkeys for no reason and then suddenly one year he became St. Elway the greater.

People continue to forget this is a team sport. It doesn't matter how dominant your defense is if your offense cannot protect the ball. It doesn't matter how dominant your offense is if you defense can be destroyed like the Maginot Line.

[anthonypacino]

Jake Plummer did not give the Indianapolis Colts 90 points, 1,008 yards of total offense, including 847 passing yards and 9 TD passes in two games.

John Elway did not win a playoff game in Denver until his 4th season, and was 0-2 just like Jake when he won his first one.

Your response is ridiculous.
I wasn't trying to attack you, I was speaking in general terms of what the public views, but now I will try to back up my statement. Would you concede that all of the QB's that have followed Elway had a better team and staff than Elway did in 83? And yes it took Elway 4 years to make a playoff game but Plummer has been in the league for NINE years! He has one win and that was with a team less talented than the one he is on now. I know that people must let go of the image of John Elway scrambling out of the pocket then firing a pass 60 yards down the field across his body, things like that will probably never happen again, anywhere, but Elway raised the bar in Denver and until somebody does something to make us forget, the comparisons will always exist, that is the problem trying to replace a legend, the 49ers made the transition well cause of Steve Young, they did not skip a beat, but look at what the Dolphins are going through after Marino, the Giants struggles after Simms left (not really a legend but a good QB) The Bengals after Boomer left, and just wait to see what happens after Farve leaves.This is also a different era of football than when Elway started. Players stayed with teams, you built teams through the draft and understood that you had to give your team time to learn and gel, they would stay together and become dynasties. Now we have FA, teams are built to win NOW, coaches get fired after three seasons, players are shuffled around year to year, Elway's Broncos had only appeared in 1 SB when he got here and were not a threat to do so again. Plummer's version has had 6 SB's with two wins, a HOF QB, a RB, TE leaving. I know that alot of the critisim is unfair, If the Broncos were a "rebuilding" team I know people would have more patience, it is probably a curse that they are "on the cusp" Most teams (Cardinals, Lions, Saints etc...) would kill for a chance to have 10-6 years and to at least make a playoff game. But once again the bar has been raised, and unfair or not the expectations are what they are. At the root of it I really don't care about Plummer's stats, I just want him to win, regular season and playoffs.

[footstepsfrom#27]

I wasn't trying to attack you, I was speaking in general terms of what the public views, but now I will try to back up my statement. Would you concede that all of the QB's that have followed Elway had a better team and staff than Elway did in 83?
I don't know whether I'd say that's true or not but it doesn't really matter because that has nothing to do with Jake. NOBODY has ever claimed Jake was equal to Elway and to judge him, or anyone else for that matter by a standard of excellence possilby unequaled in NFL history is absurd. The point is not whether Jake can be as good as Elway, it's whether Jake can be good enough to win a Superbowl with the right talent around him.
And yes it took Elway 4 years to make a playoff game but Plummer has been in the league for NINE years! He has one win and that was with a team less talented than the one he is on now.
Actually this is his 9th year now but you just made my point for me. He's been around all this time but 6 years were with Arizona where he was basically asked to win without any help like Elway was asked to do in Denver. Elway had the talent to do that to a point but even he needed support before he could take it to the next level. I hope you're not seriously suggesting his Cardinals experience was helpful? No way. It's taken the Denver coaches this long just to get him to start losing some of his tendencies he picked up in AZ. If anyone should understand the fact that Jake's been put in a no-win situation it's Denver fans, who got to see close up with Elway what a mess can be made with a coach who didn't put any real talent around him. Ironic that it took Shanahan to come in and undo the damage Reeves did before he could turn John into an even better quarterback...one capable with the right talent of winning a Superbowl Why shoudn't Jake get the same consideration?
[/QUOTE]At the root of it I really don't care about Plummer's stats, I just want him to win, regular season and playoffs.[/QUOTE]
It's his mistakes that people have used to judge him as being a bad quarterback. Fine. Then let it also be true that when the guys been improving drastically in that area that he get some credit for it. His "stats" make it sound like that's unimportant. What is it that he is always bashed for? It's his INT's mostly, and as you can see, that criticism is something that belongs mostly in the past with his Arizona career. You certainly can't claim that the reason we havent' won a playoff game in Jake's two years is because of him...not when you look at what the pitiful defensive effort did against the Colts.

[anthonypacino]

I don't know whether I'd say that's true or not but it doesn't really matter because that has nothing to do with Jake. NOBODY has ever claimed Jake was equal to Elway and to judge him, or anyone else for that matter by a standard of excellence possilby unequaled in NFL history is absurd. The point is not whether Jake can be as good as Elway, it's whether Jake can be good enough to win a Superbowl with the right talent around him.

Actually this is his 9th year now but you just made my point for me. He's been around all this time but 6 years were with Arizona where he was basically asked to win without any help like Elway was asked to do in Denver. Elway had the talent to do that to a point but even he needed support before he could take it to the next level. I hope you're not seriously suggesting his Cardinals experience was helpful? No way. It's taken the Denver coaches this long just to get him to start losing some of his tendencies he picked up in AZ. If anyone should understand the fact that Jake's been put in a no-win situation it's Denver fans, who got to see close up with Elway what a mess can be made with a coach who didn't put any real talent around him. Ironic that it took Shanahan to come in and undo the damage Reeves did before he could turn John into an even better quarterback...one capable with the right talent of winning a Superbowl Why shoudn't Jake get the same consideration?
At the root of it I really don't care about Plummer's stats, I just want him to win, regular season and playoffs.[/QUOTE]
It's his mistakes that people have used to judge him as being a bad quarterback. Fine. Then let it also be true that when the guys been improving drastically in that area that he get some credit for it. His "stats" make it sound like that's unimportant. What is it that he is always bashed for? It's his INT's mostly, and as you can see, that criticism is something that belongs mostly in the past with his Arizona career. You certainly can't claim that the reason we havent' won a playoff game in Jake's two years is because of him...not when you look at what the pitiful defensive effort did against the Colts.[/QUOTE]
By that way of thought that How good can Jake be with the right talent around him, could another QB have done more with less than he has? How much more does Jake need? Like I said earlier, I know it is not fair, but that is the price of trying to replace a legend. I know it is a team game and I do not put the blame squarely on Jakes shoulders, it goes out to the whole team. IMO Jake was not without talent in Arizonia, he had poor coaching, Jake was able to play with David Boston (a Pro-Bowler at the time) Freddie Mitchell, a great TE, Larry Centers (a HOF caliber FB and Pro Bowler) Frank Sanders (a decent #2 WR),Siamen Rice, Aneus Williams (I know I am butchering these guys names) That poor coaching led to his difficulties he has had now, and I agree he is steadily getting better and once again I know the comparisons are unfair and can never be lived up too but this a town and fanbase that saw a QB get to 3 SB's with teams less talented than the one that Jake is on now, and those SB's are still fresh in our minds, alot of people want results now. The only way to silence the unfair comparisons will be to win in the playoffs with Plummer, not Elway.

[footstepsfrom#27]

By that way of thought that How good can Jake be with the right talent around him, could another QB have done more with less than he has? How much more does Jake need?
Yea...I'm sure if we had McNabb or Manning we'd be better, but that's totally missing the point.
Like I said earlier, I know it is not fair, but that is the price of trying to replace a legend. I know it is a team game and I do not put the blame squarely on Jakes shoulders, it goes out to the whole team. IMO Jake was not without talent in Arizonia, he had poor coaching, Jake was able to play with David Boston (a Pro-Bowler at the time) Freddie Mitchell, a great TE, Larry Centers (a HOF caliber FB and Pro Bowler) Frank Sanders (a decent #2 WR),Siamen Rice, Aneus Williams (I know I am butchering these guys names) That poor coaching led to his difficulties he has had now, and I agree he is steadily getting better and once again I know the comparisons are unfair and can never be lived up too but this a town and fanbase that saw a QB get to 3 SB's with teams less talented than the one that Jake is on now, and those SB's are still fresh in our minds, alot of people want results now. The only way to silence the unfair comparisons will be to win in the playoffs with Plummer, not Elway.
First of all since you admit it's "not fair", don't try to justify that thinking, just change it. Second, quit worrying about "replacing a legend"...that's part of the problem...continuing to harp on Elway is not going to help him any is it? Third, I don't know about you but those three failed Superbowls of the Reeves era are NOT fresh in my mind..they're something I'd dearly like to forget for obvious reasons. So we got to three SB's? Who cares...we stunk it up when we got there in front of a billion people. I for one would like to avoid that again if possible. The only two successful seasons we should be modeling are the 97 and 98 seasons. Fourth, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the Cardinals problems were about WAY more than who played QB...this team's had 3 winning seasons since 1983 and no matter what individual parts they had they've sucked for as long as most of us can remember. That's certainly not Plummers fault.

I don't know exactly what it is you expect of this guy. Do you think he should have hung 50 on the Colts last year? That's why it would have taken to win.

[anthonypacino]

Yea...I'm sure if we had McNabb or Manning we'd be better, but that's totally missing the point.

First of all since you admit it's "not fair", don't try to justify that thinking, just change it. Second, quit worrying about "replacing a legend"...that's part of the problem...continuing to harp on Elway is not going to help him any is it? Third, I don't know about you but those three failed Superbowls of the Reeves era are NOT fresh in my mind..they're something I'd dearly like to forget for obvious reasons. So we got to three SB's? Who cares...we stunk it up when we got there in front of a billion people. I for one would like to avoid that again if possible. The only two successful seasons we should be modeling are the 97 and 98 seasons. Fourth, it doesn't take a genius to realize that the Cardinals problems were about WAY more than who played QB...this team's had 3 winning seasons since 1983 and no matter what individual parts they had they've sucked for as long as most of us can remember. That's certainly not Plummers fault.

I don't know exactly what it is you expect of this guy. Do you think he should have hung 50 on the Colts last year? That's why it would have taken to win.
When did I accuse the Cards of sucking because of Plummer? I clearly said the coaching sucked! He had enough talent around him to beat the Cowboys in a playoff game there. But at some time you make or break yourself as a player and "rise above" Elway's coming out was the Drive, Montana's was the 82 playoff against the Cowboys. Don't be sore at me because of the comparisons to other players, that is the nature of the beast. The NFL is completely based on comparisons, from Drafting, to FA's to the way an Offense/Defense is run to getting to the HOF. This is the NFL not 3-4 grade flag football were everyone gets an equal chance and playing time. Maybe Plummer's coming out will be against the Coltrs this year (I hope) but I would have higher asperations for Jake than Trent Dilfer or Brad Johnson, both marginally skilled QB's who were playing with talented players and won SB then went the way of FA's (see how good they really were) Our recent and past success has made people impatient, teams coming from nowhere and having great success while the Broncos have been steady in that time neither getting over the hump or going downhill, but as I said earlier if Denver was in the toilet right now, people would see that Jake is getting better and have more optimisim. But being right on the verge and not getting there becomes disharting after awhile.

[gunns]

I agree it's about "when" to a point. I'm willing to bet that if you look at some of the games Elway and Marino played you can find innoportune INT's also, but that's been largely forgotten because of their success. My point is that all Jake's mistakes are magnifed because we refuse to let him get past the Arizona years...years in which he was basically asked to do things their coaches had no business asking him to do. At the very least, the points I''m making should make Bronco fans look more objectively at what he does on the field instead of the knee jerk reactions every time he throws an INT.

I think the problem last year is contained in your post. While I do think we've gotten over his Arizona days at times he hasn't. To a certain extent his reasoning when pushing the ball is admirable, he's competitive something we did not have with Griese. But we have seen improvement, I believe, since being here. I actually think he was better in the playoffs than some of the rest of the players. I put a lot his errors on Shanahan last year. When our D wouldn't keep us in games it was Shanahan who thought Plummer was another Elway and could carry the game. Plummer clearly can't. Would we want him to? Even with Elway it was proven that a single player can get you to the SB but a single player cannot win it.

[orange 4 life]

obviously im coming late to the party.
with work and the move, ive barely been able to even check in.

anyway, this is SO simple to me its hard to believe the media and some fans dont see it.
plummer IS playing the same as he did in '04.....and in '03.

through 4 games of '04, he wasnt asked to BE the offense. just to LEAD it and make plays when called upon.
in '03 the same, hence his 15 td's against 7 int's (3 in the first game alone which makes the total 7 even more impressive.)

as '04 progressed, we found games where we couldnt stop the opposition, games we couldnt run the ball (we only ran for 32 yards in a win against san diego. plummer had 300+ yards incidentally), and games where our receivers got stone hands.
in '04, SEVEN of plummers 20 int's were in TWO games in which we were down by THREE scores.
this season, 2 of his 3 picks came late against miami ALSO trailing by three scores or more. the other was a tipped ball against san diego.
there is no "good plummer" or "bad plummer".
there is ONE jake plummer, and he's shown CRYSTAL clear in 2 plus years that he's VERY capable when given adequate circumstances.
he is a leader that can make plays when called upon.

when asked to do too much, he makes alot of plays, and he makes alot of mistakes.
that ALSO has been proven over the years.

what is HE doing different this year? nothing.

the team is just giving him circumstances in which he can thrive.
if we keep that up, plummer will continue to play well. probably VERY well.

jake

[Bob's your Information Minister]

if we keep that up, plummer will continue to play well. probably VERY well.



And blow the division down the stretch. Yay!

[wabbit]

And blow the division down the stretch. Yay!


'Bob...c'mon man...haven't you had enough??

You have an entire week before that big 'Skins upset win over KC

I would've thought you'd be home licking your balls...er...wounds

[orange 4 life]

And blow the division down the stretch. Yay!

wow youre dumb.

"if we keep that up"

that was the sentence dipsh!t.
now, lets see what that refers to.
it refers to us playing good defense, not falling behing by more than two scores, and not being forced to throw 40 times a game.
we "blew the division down the stretch" in past years because we DIDNT do those things late in the season.
hence, my use of the word "if".

IF we continue to play as we have the last three weeks, plummer will also continue to play relatively mistake free football and make the plays required of him.

get it?

[Spider]

Plummer is still Plummer , he hasnt changed , when Plummer first came here , me and others made the argument , that when Jake has a running game he is a Playoff QB ( after getting in the playoffs that is a different story;D ) ......
So far Jake has done what I expected from him .... 2 seasons 2 Playoff spots ....
Now it seems Jake is maturing in our system , I seen a few times were Jake just threw the ball away instead of Forcing somthing, and Jake is playing within the system ......
Bob posted Jake is 1-17 in long ball , pretty worthless seeing how Denver is a ball control offense , the long ball in this offense has to be set up ..........
If Plummer starts playing outside of the system ( going cowboy on us forcing things) then we could be in trouble .......

[orange 4 life]

here's the thing though spider.

in two and a quarter seasons, plummer NEVER "goes cowboy" on us unless he NEEDS to.
he DOESNT make alot of mistakes until you put him in a situation where he has to throw 40 times a game.

i remember in '03 when we got him.

your avatar that year was a photo of plummer and a caption with "snake is here" or something to that effect.

he is the EXACT same player now as he was then, and we should all be JUST as happy to HAVE him now as we were then.

jake

[Blart]

I like it when Jake goes cowboy:

http://www.notacult.com/images/messageboard/plummer.wmv
1MB - 30 seconds, Miami game.

[Spider]

here's the thing though spider.

in two and a quarter seasons, plummer NEVER "goes cowboy" on us unless he NEEDS to.
he DOESNT make alot of mistakes until you put him in a situation where he has to throw 40 times a game.

i remember in '03 when we got him.

your avatar that year was a photo of plummer and a caption with "snake is here" or something to that effect.

he is the EXACT same player now as he was then, and we should all be JUST as happy to HAVE him now as we were then.

jake

Oh I still like Plummer , love the Idea he is here for us , I still back Jake as our QB , but Like Farve is Farve , Jake will be Jake , it is up to Shanny and staff to keep Plummer out of those situations .......

[footstepsfrom#27]

in two and a quarter seasons, plummer NEVER "goes cowboy" on us unless he NEEDS to.
he DOESNT make alot of mistakes until you put him in a situation where he has to throw 40 times a game.
Good point. But he's not the same player he was with AZ...he's more in control. His INT ratio of 1 in 31 attempts compared to 1 in 24 with AZ proves that.

[Popps]

They've been running SB XXII all weekend. Stupid Elway, letting Washington score 42 points. If he just would have put up a couple of scores early on.

Oh, wait... we did.

Still, stupid Elway allowing 42 points. Our offense really let us down that day.

[footstepsfrom#27]

They've been running SB XXII all weekend. Stupid Elway, letting Washington score 42 points. If he just would have put up a couple of scores early on.

Oh, wait... we did.

Still, stupid Elway allowing 42 points. Our offense really let us down that day.
He also gave up 55 to the 9ers... :nono:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

we "blew the division down the stretch" in past years because we DIDNT do those things late in the season.

BAHAHAHAHA!!!

The Chargers scored 20 freaking points.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bob posted Jake is 1-17 in long ball , pretty worthless seeing how Denver is a ball control offense ,

What's worth something is 1 for 17 is a significant downgrade from how he was doing last year. And that's not even all "long ball," that's just throws over 20 yards. Pretty pathetic.

Keeping blowing Plummer for his 150-yard performances and see where that gets you by season's end.

[Spider]

What's worth something is 1 for 17 is a significant downgrade from how he was doing last year. And that's not even all "long ball," that's just throws over 20 yards. Pretty pathetic.

Keeping blowing Plummer for his 150-yard performances and see where that gets you by season's end.
LOL .....you sure about that ?
I will take a 150 Yards and 3-1 then bombs away and 2-2 or 1-3 .........
Not that I am pointing fingers at certian teams or anything .......
Oh speaking of Blowing , you still blowing gunther and his We can stop the Plummer Roll out ? Hilarious!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I will take a 150 Yards and 3-1


So would anyone, but the fact remains, at some point this year Plummer's going to have to step up.

Perhaps Shanahan would rather just run Anderson up the center's butt for a yard and kick the field goal instead of letting Plummer audible into an interception.

[Spider]

So would anyone, but the fact remains, at some point this year Plummer's going to have to step up.
LOL fact ? says who ?
All plummer has to do is manage the game son ..........

Perhaps Shanahan would rather just run Anderson up the center's butt for a yard and kick the field goal instead of letting Plummer audible into an interception.
Unless we are playing the Chiefs , then we can run the bootleg 50 times in a row and score at will Hilarious!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

All plummer has to do is manage the game son ..........


If your defense and running game keeps chugging along, yeah. Nothing is guaranteed.

[wabbit]

You didn't comment on the bootleg insult there 'Bob

Why is that?

[Sassy]

So would anyone, but the fact remains, at some point this year Plummer's going to have to step up.

Perhaps Shanahan would rather just run Anderson up the center's butt for a yard and kick the field goal instead of letting Plummer audible into an interception.
Plummer steps up even more...you guys are toast in December! Ha!
As for our D...unless we get even more injuries, it doesn't look like it will let up anytime soon! Nnyah!

[Spider]

If your defense and running game keeps chugging along, yeah. Nothing is guaranteed.
Of course , I will also add Special teams , one of the things that is helping Denver is winning the Field Position battle , that means more then a 20+ yard completion .......It is boring but effective

[elsid13]

You didn't comment on the bootleg insult there 'Bob

Why is that?


Because just like KC Defense he has no answer.

[Sassy]

Because just like KC Defense he has no answer.
Seems to me against Denver their O didn't have an answer either :militia:

[elsid13]

Seems to me against Denver their O didn't have an answer either :militia:


They had an answer: It was to lay down and cry uncle.

[Sassy]

They had an answer: It was to lay down and cry uncle.
I hope Invesco provided them with plenty of kleenex in the visiting locker room !Booya! :Broncos:

[elsid13]

I hope Invesco provided them with plenty of kleenex in the visiting locker room !Booya! :Broncos:


Nay, They forced them to share. But since they're from KC it wasn't a big deal.