Redskin Board comments

[SpenceSkins]

Seriously, do you spit or swallow his nut? Are you on his payroll?What a vulgar little creature you are.

Springs got used up when he was in Seattle. His speed is his greatest and only real asset which allows him to cover for his mistakes. Having a good FS over the top to cover his arse is imperative. He should give Taylor 20% of his weekly game check.This is too silly to merit comment. You know absolutely nothing. The notion that Sean Taylor covered for Shawn Springs is laughable. Taylor didn't even begin the season as a starter and, while he showed great promise, was only the third-best member of the secondary last year. And there isn't a single person who watches the Redskins -- you do not, no matter what you say -- who would argue differently. I guess you missed Taylor biting on that flea flicker against Dallas and giving up the touchdown. Just to help you out: Springs is 24 and Taylor is 21. Try not to confuse them again.

And were you on the Smoot wagon? I just know a lot of fans here thought the world of that guy too.Nope. I make it a rule to be suspicious of any player who suddenly begins playing well in his contract season. I wrote repeatedly that the Redskins should let him walk for the silly contract the Vikings offered him. The Minnesota defense is performing about where I expected them to perform. They won't get a top performance from Smoot again until his contract is about to expire.

[RaiderH8r]

Gregg Williams usually isn't so generous to opposing offenses. The Skins will play a fair amount of zone. Last year, the Redskins blitzed like mad and relied completely on great play from the secondary. Luckily, they got it. Such tactics are necessary because the defensive line, while very good at stopping the run, doesn't get any pass rush on its own. This year, Williams has blitzed less and dropped more people into coverage. He appears to be trying to avoid all big plays in the passing game and forcing teams to march the length of the field against his defense. So far, that tactic has worked pretty well. Note, however, that Seattle had two long drives in the second half. That's the Springs factor. When he's out, the Redskins defense is vulnerable.
Denver's been happy to make long sustained drives to keep the opposition D on the field. No mistakes and steady, heady progress down the field. But if Greg Williams thinks his D can stay on the field for 40 minutes and not be winded at Mile High he's going to be disappointed.

[SpenceSkins]

So who took his position?Warrick Holdman.

[RedskinsDave]

You should know that individual stats dont mean anything, Peyton Manning had a great year last year, tore up the whole league and us in the playoffs but still didnt win the SB. Shawn Springs can have 10 interceptions it doesnt matter if it doesnt help the team win does it?

Nice try. In that case Timmy Smith was a better running back than Barry Sanders. That one was too easy.

[Bronx33]

What a vulgar little creature you are.

This is too silly to merit comment. You know absolutely nothing. The notion that Sean Taylor covered for Shawn Springs is laughable. Taylor didn't even begin the season as a starter and, while he showed great promise, was only the third-best member of the secondary last year. And there isn't a single person who watches the Redskins -- you do not, no matter what you say -- who would argue differently. I guess you missed Taylor biting on that flea flicker against Dallas and giving up the touchdown. Just to help you out: Springs is 24 and Taylor is 21. Try not to confuse them again.

Nope. I make it a rule to be suspicious of any player who suddenly begins playing well in his contract season. I wrote repeatedly that the Redskins should let him walk for the silly contract the Vikings offered him. The Minnesota defense is performing about where I expected them to perform. They won't get a top performance from Smoot again until his contract is about to expire.


You just make sure you come back after springs and company get rented ok smooth talker.

[rbackfactory80]

No Skins fans are bragging about their offense. At least, none at hailRedskins.com, which is what I know about. When it comes to the offense, we're looking for slow and steady progress. Getting it so far.


I was at extreme skins and they were talking about picking us apart. I will check out hailredskins.com though.

[SpenceSkins]

Gregg Williams is a hell of a DC and is doing the right thing. Lavar is a beast, but if he's out of position he is useless.My thoughts exactly. He's capable of making very big plays and the Redskins miss that, but Williams has proven himself a top defensive mind. If he thinks his defense is better with Lavar on the sidelines, that's good enough for me. The one weakness for the Redskins defense, though, when healthy, is that it doesn't produce many turnovers. That's because it doesn't get a lot of pressure on the quarterback.

[24champ]

Nice try. In that case Timmy Smith was a better running back than Barry Sanders. That one was too easy.
By the way where is Timmy Smith these days? Ha!

[SpenceSkins]

I was at extreme skins and they were talking about picking us apart.That's your problem.

I will check out hailredskins.com though.And that's your solution.

[SpenceSkins]

By the way where is Timmy Smith these days? Ha!If he's not in prison he probably should be. Looked pretty good for one game, though. Important game.

[SpenceSkins]

You just make sure you come back after springs and company get rented ok smooth talker.Will do.

[RedskinsDave]

By the way where is Timmy Smith these days? Ha!

Denver, ha! He always found Denver folk to be quite accomodating.

[2KBack]

My thoughts exactly. He's capable of making very big plays and the Redskins miss that, but Williams has proven himself a top defensive mind. If he thinks his defense is better with Lavar on the sidelines, that's good enough for me. The one weakness for the Redskins defense, though, when healthy, is that it doesn't produce many turnovers. That's because it doesn't get a lot of pressure on the quarterback.

Did you have pass rush problems last year too, because that's what became the death of Denver04? Eventually it comes back to bite you. I don't know your schedule, but no pass rush can be a liability against great passing attacks, no matter who is in the secondary.

[bendog]

That's your problem.

And that's your solution.
So it's our problem there's a homer board with even dumber takes than some on this board?

[SpenceSkins]

Denver's been happy to make long sustained drives to keep the opposition D on the field. No mistakes and steady, heady progress down the field. But if Greg Williams thinks his D can stay on the field for 40 minutes and not be winded at Mile High he's going to be disappointed.Hey, you know more about defense than Gregg Williams so you should probably let him know about that fact. Just to make the game more interesting.

[24champ]

Denver, ha! He always found Denver folk to be quite accomodating.
yeah he brought his redskins way over here and got busted.

[SpenceSkins]

So it's our problem there's a homer board with even dumber takes than some on this board?It's only your problem if you spend your time at an inferior board like Extremeskins when a superior board like hailRedskins is available.

[RedskinsDave]

Did you have pass rush problems last year too, because that's what became the death of Denver04? Eventually it comes back to bite you. I don't know your schedule, but no pass rush can be a liability against great passing attacks, no matter who is in the secondary.

We did but the defense still held together. I think our biggest problem on D this year is the inability to create turnovers. Eventually being minus in the giveaway/takeaway stat catches up to teams.

[footstepsfrom#27]

This one from Extremeskins is a hoot. Some guy asked who was going to the Denver game and this clown responded with this:

My Good-Wishes and my Dreams will be there too making lots of noises while Denver are on Offense..

Can't ya see Plummer calling for a time out on the goal line because his receivers can't hear over SkinFromNepal hollering from 800 feet away?

BAAAAHAAAAAA!!!! LOL

[24champ]

We did but the defense still held together. I think our biggest problem on D this year is the inability to create turnovers. Eventually being minus in the giveaway/takeaway stat catches up to teams.
Yeah the defense of the redskins is great, they shut down powerhouses like chicago bears, cowboys, and seahawks. Scary team indeed ::)

[2KBack]

We did but the defense still held together. I think our biggest problem on D this year is the inability to create turnovers. Eventually being minus in the giveaway/takeaway stat catches up to teams.

I have to admit, I won't have a problem if your Turnover drought continues.

[SpenceSkins]

Did you have pass rush problems last year too, because that's what became the death of Denver04? Eventually it comes back to bite you. I don't know your schedule, but no pass rush can be a liability against great passing attacks, no matter who is in the secondary.The Packers lit us up for one half last year. That demonstrated what an offense with Brett Favre and Javon Walker could do when the defense had no pass rush. The Redskins recovered and stopped them in the second half, but by then it was far too late and the offense didn't have nearly enough juice to come back and make it interesting.

I'm a big believer in pass rush and the necessity of having top defensive ends. Great pass rushers don't grow on trees, though. If they did, I'd do Gregg Williams a favor and stroll on down to the Dwight Freeney Holly Tree and grab him one or two. Williams is doing the best he can with what he's got. What he's got are top defensive tackles, good linebackers, a very good secondary -- when healthy -- and defensive ends whose pass rush should be measured in days instead of seconds. It's just that bad. That's why Gregg Williams has been getting so much respect around the league. Nobody can understand how he does it.

[Mile High Shack]

We did but the defense still held together. I think our biggest problem on D this year is the inability to create turnovers. Eventually being minus in the giveaway/takeaway stat catches up to teams.
And that isn’t a problem?

If we don’t turn it over against your team (make that Jake doesn’t), you have no chance to beat Denver in Denver

Jake may not be a world beater, but even he can pick you apart when there is not a pass rush

[RaiderH8r]

Hey, you know more about defense than Gregg Williams so you should probably let him know about that fact. Just to make the game more interesting.
Just elaborating on your position. Maybe Greg can ask Goonther about bend but don't break against Denver at Mile High.

[Broncoman13]

I happen to think the Skins defense is pretty good. They're almost the exact same as the Broncos of years past. They do well with 3 and outs. Bend but don't break... but can't force a turnover to save their lives. If we play the same game we've been playing for the past three weeks. PROTECT THE BALL ON OFFENSE and GET THE BALL ON DEFENSE...we'll be fine. OSKIE SCORE baby, that's what it's all about. Portis will put the ball on the ground. He's always been a fumbler. Brunell is playing smart football right now. The key will be to force him into a couple INT's. I think we can do it...and I'll have the Karma Thread up and running so that we can all "WILL" it to happen!

[RedskinsDave]

Yeah the defense of the redskins is great, they shut down powerhouses like chicago bears, cowboys, and seahawks. Scary team indeed ::)

I take it you missed all of last year.

[SpenceSkins]

And that isn’t a problem?

If we don’t turn it over against your team (make that Jake doesn’t), you have no chance to beat Denver in Denver

Jake may not be a world beater, but even he can pick you apart when there is not a pass rushOf course it is a problem. Everyone knows that. Picking the Redskins apart despite the lack of a pass rush isn't as easy as you suppose, however. If it was, most everyone would do it because the Skins usually don't get much of a push at all. The biggest key for the Redskins defense, however, is still stopping Denver's rushing attack. If Denver cannot rely on its rushing attack, it won't be able to use those deadly rollouts. I'm not a fan of Jake Plummer in the pocket. I think he makes bad decisions and loses just as many games as he wins for a team. When Plummer is allowed to use his athleticism in his rollouts, however, he becomes a different quarterback -- elite level. If Plummer is rolling out a lot on Sunday, the Broncos should win easily. If not, there's a real football game to be played.

[2KBack]

The Packers lit us up for one half last year. That demonstrated what an offense with Brett Favre and Javon Walker could do when the defense had no pass rush. The Redskins recovered and stopped them in the second half, but by then it was far too late and the offense didn't have nearly enough juice to come back and make it interesting.

I'm a big believer in pass rush and the necessity of having top defensive ends. Great pass rushers don't grow on trees, though. If they did, I'd do Gregg Williams a favor and stroll on down to the Dwight Freeney Holly Tree and grab him one or two. Williams is doing the best he can with what he's got. What he's got are top defensive tackles, good linebackers, a very good secondary -- when healthy -- and defensive ends whose pass rush should be measured in days instead of seconds. It's just that bad. That's why Gregg Williams has been getting so much respect around the league. Nobody can understand how he does it.

It's true, the casual fan is typically shocked to hear where Washington ranked on Defense last year. Probably becasue the casual fan can't name many players on what is the superior half of your football team. Almost a truely no-name defense.

[elsid13]

Ok

For that are interested the Joe Gibbs shows is on 6 o'clock eastern on this site
http://www.sportstalk980.com/main.html.

For the skins fans I live in the beltway, and have watched both teams a lot this over the years, you haven't played a team of Denver caliber yet. No matter what you think this front seven is going to be one of the best defense front you see all year. Champ is producing like he did in the first couple of year in the league. And your defense will experience it first real test of the year on Sunday. Also the aggressiveness that your team showed chasing the ball carrier this year will hurt you when you play Denver. And the idiots who don't understand that Denver is one of the last team in the league that looks run first need to get out glory years of the hogs.

[Broncoman13]

The Packers lit us up for one half last year. That demonstrated what an offense with Brett Favre and Javon Walker could do when the defense had no pass rush. The Redskins recovered and stopped them in the second half, but by then it was far too late and the offense didn't have nearly enough juice to come back and make it interesting.

I'm a big believer in pass rush and the necessity of having top defensive ends. Great pass rushers don't grow on trees, though. If they did, I'd do Gregg Williams a favor and stroll on down to the Dwight Freeney Holly Tree and grab him one or two. Williams is doing the best he can with what he's got. What he's got are top defensive tackles, good linebackers, a very good secondary -- when healthy -- and defensive ends whose pass rush should be measured in days instead of seconds. It's just that bad. That's why Gregg Williams has been getting so much respect around the league. Nobody can understand how he does it.

You keep talking about a great secondary when "healthy". The mark of a good team is having depth. That's what has made the Pats so great in the past few years. Take a look at last Sunday's game. You'll notice that our #1 and #2 CB's were out and did not even dress... yet we gave up only 7 points. DEPTH BABY...

[Antilles]

Hey skins fans, since I expect a fairly close game, I was curious - is there any chance John Hall will play or is he out for a few more weeks? How confident are you in Novak. I know the kid has hit 2 chip shots (40 yards is still a chip) and had one blocked. Is he a source of concern? Was he slow on the block or was it the line?

[cjh1669]

I take it you missed all of last year.
When they faced 3 teams that could actually run the ball, all three had 100+ yards on the ground against them

[2KBack]

Hey skins fans, since I expect a fairly close game, I was curious - is there any chance John Hall will play or is he out for a few more weeks? How confident are you in Novak. I know the kid has hit 2 chip shots (40 yards is still a chip) and had one blocked. Is he a source of concern? Was he slow on the block or was it the line?

I thought I heard he was going to be back, could be wrong though.

[elsid13]

I thought I heard he was going to be back, could be wrong though.


still out, day to day, the I expect the kid from Maryland to kick,

[SpenceSkins]

It's true, the casual fan is typically shocked to hear where Washington ranked on Defense last year. Probably becasue the casual fan can't name many players on what is the superior half of your football team. Almost a truely no-name defense.It is a no-name defense. Only Marcus Washington made the Pro Bowl last year, but Springs and Cornelius Griffin were both better than Washington. Casual fans didn't pay much attention to the Redskins last year, I assume, because they lost a lot and the scores seemed uninteresting. Unless it is your team playing, it is hard to become excited about a 13-10 game in another town. If not for the defense, the Redskins would have gone 1-15 last year. Only the second game against the Giants, when the Redskins scored 31 points, did the offense hold up its end.

[SpenceSkins]

Novak will almost certainly kick.

[Broncoman13]

It's true, the casual fan is typically shocked to hear where Washington ranked on Defense last year. Probably becasue the casual fan can't name many players on what is the superior half of your football team. Almost a truely no-name defense.


I know/knew exactly what they were ranked. As far as naming players from their D last year..... I couldn't name anybody from the DL. Two LB's, and three DB's. So 5 of 11... that btw is including Lavar who didn't play much if at all last year.

How's he doing this year btw? One of my favs when he was at State. Dude can bring it when he wants to... I don't care if he's known as Can't get right.

[Broncoman13]

Novak will almost certainly kick.


Speaking of Novak... great performance by the kid yesterday. Good nerves on that kid, he should enjoy kicking in the altitude this weekend.

[SpenceSkins]

You keep talking about a great secondary when "healthy". The mark of a good team is having depth. That's what has made the Pats so great in the past few years. Take a look at last Sunday's game. You'll notice that our #1 and #2 CB's were out and did not even dress... yet we gave up only 7 points. DEPTH BABY...The Redskins suffered a fair number of injuries on defense last year. Lost a starting safety in September. Lost Lavar Arrington in September. Lost starting defensive end in September. Still finished the year #3 in total defense in the NFL. Every team is vulnerable if they lose a key player or two. For the Redskins, that key player in Shawn Springs.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Hmmmm....here they come... Uhh

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1682740#post1682740

[SpenceSkins]

I know/knew exactly what they were ranked. As far as naming players from their D last year..... I couldn't name anybody from the DL. Two LB's, and three DB's. So 5 of 11... that btw is including Lavar who didn't play much if at all last year.

How's he doing this year btw? One of my favs when he was at State. Dude can bring it when he wants to... I don't care if he's known as Can't get right.Lavar is riding the pine right now and will probably continue to do so for some time, barring an injury to one of the starting linebackers.

[Broncoman13]

The Redskins suffered a fair number of injuries on defense last year. Lost a starting safety in September. Lost Lavar Arrington in September. Lost starting defensive end in September. Still finished the year #3 in total defense in the NFL. Every team is vulnerable if they lose a key player or two. For the Redskins, that key player in Shawn Springs.


See I would agree with the key player thing... that is until I witnessed our defense's thumping minus our best defender on Sunday.

I fully expect you'll be suprised with this D come Sunday. Save for a 61 yard run by Chambers on an end around in the opener this defense would be #1 in the league vs the run! RB's are avg. 2.8 yards per run against us. Did I mention we've faced the best RB's the NFL has to offer?

[Broncoman13]

Hmmmm....here they come... Uhh

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1682740#post1682740


BRING EM!!! I'm very interested to hear about our slow LB's! Ha!

[bendog]

Of course it is a problem. Everyone knows that. Picking the Redskins apart despite the lack of a pass rush isn't as easy as you suppose, however. If it was, most everyone would do it because the Skins usually don't get much of a push at all. The biggest key for the Redskins defense, however, is still stopping Denver's rushing attack. If Denver cannot rely on its rushing attack, it won't be able to use those deadly rollouts. I'm not a fan of Jake Plummer in the pocket. I think he makes bad decisions and loses just as many games as he wins for a team. When Plummer is allowed to use his athleticism in his rollouts, however, he becomes a different quarterback -- elite level. If Plummer is rolling out a lot on Sunday, the Broncos should win easily. If not, there's a real football game to be played.
No offense, but that really shows a lack on insight into Den. No offense, there's no reason you should know Den anymore than I know Wash, which I admitted earlier, and I found your post interesting. And, I did attempt to answere non-smakc football takes as to tendencies and stuff.

Jake's biggest weakness is pressure up the middle, and then trying to make plays. He's on a short five step leash, make three reads and step into the throw, if there's nothing there, run. If he has DT pressure he tends has to hurry, and he cannot step into his throws. Jax beat us last year with those DTs.

Den is stretching the field horizontally with Jake in the 5 step. That opens the run with cutback lanes, and when teams have to bring their contain guys up the line to stop the cutback THEN shanny runs the rollouts.

No predictions. Den may well let down. They do that. We lost to Chi at home. We lost to Oak at home. Wash is playing improved ball, though they win really ugly. It could be a recipe to steal one in Den. But I still don't see how Wash matches up physically, except for the injuries at corner.

Gotta go fix dinner for my kid. Thanx for the post.

[SpenceSkins]

I fully expect you'll be suprised with this D come Sunday. Save for a 61 yard run by Chambers on an end around in the opener this defense would be #1 in the league vs the run! RB's are avg. 2.8 yards per run against us. Did I mention we've faced the best RB's the NFL has to offer?Why would any of that surprise me. I know the Broncos are giving up 3.5 ypc and the Redskins are giving up 3.6 ypc. That was easy enough to check yesterday evening during halftime of the Sunday night game. Denver is unlikely to surprise the Redskins on Sunday. Everyone knows what Denver does, the only question is whether or not it can be stopped or bested.

[FADERPROOF]

I take it you missed all of last year.

Judging by your record last year, I'd say the Redskins missed a lot of last year as well.

[Mile High Shack]

Why would any of that surprise me. I know the Broncos are giving up 3.5 ypc and the Redskins are giving up 3.6 ypc. That was easy enough to check yesterday evening during halftime of the Sunday night game. Denver is unlikely to surprise the Redskins on Sunday. Everyone knows what Denver does, the only question is whether or not it can be stopped or bested.

just like everyone knows what the Redskins do

I mean, no offense, but I'd even take Jake over Brunnel at this point in their careers

we have the advantage in every aspect of the matchups except for safety, I expect this to be a close game, that's all I am saying, bad mojo won't let me predict a Denver win

[Hotrod]

I take it you missed all of last year.

So your telling us the redskins scared people last year ???



LOL ROFL!

[terps'n'skins]

Nothing like fans beating their chests because their team is 3-0 playing against squads that couldn't qualify for the special olympics. The Bears, well they're the Bears. The Cowboys owned them for 58 minutes until Roy Williams decided to take a mental vacation for two plays and the Seahags are perennial underachievers. They play in the NFC LEast and they've got the balls to say the AFC Best doesn't know tough football? Pretty lame, pretty lame indeed.

Are you implying that the NFC East is really bad? Last time i checked the NFC Least record was 11-4 and the AFC Best was 8-8...I'm not saying that the NFC East is better than the AFC West...but look at the records there bud.

It may be that the Redskins have played "decent" teams..but we have beaten them. That's all that matters.

[SpenceSkins]

Judging by your record last year, I'd say the Redskins missed a lot of last year as well.Well, the offense was AWOL 15 times. Defense showed up, though. #3 in the NFL.

[SpenceSkins]

So your telling us the redskins scared people last year ???



LOL ROFL!The defense was excellent last year. Anyone who says differently knows nothing about football. The offense was an embarrassment.

[RedskinsDave]

So your telling us the redskins scared people last year ???



LOL ROFL!

Pay attention. I was talking about the defense.

[SpenceSkins]

just like everyone knows what the Redskins do

I mean, no offense, but I'd even take Jake over Brunnel at this point in their careers

we have the advantage in every aspect of the matchups except for safety, I expect this to be a close game, that's all I am saying, bad mojo won't let me predict a Denver winIf Denver is better everywhere but safety AND has home field advantage, this game shouldn't be close at all. Should be a Denver win by four or five touchdowns.

[Mile High Shack]

If Denver is better everywhere but safety AND has home field advantage, this game shouldn't be close at all. Should be a Denver win by four or five touchdowns.

your defense plays well as a unit though, that is what will keep this game close

if you force us into multiple TO's, you could win this game

[FADERPROOF]

Well, the offense was AWOL 15 times. Defense showed up, though. #3 in the NFL.

Only 15 times?

[SpenceSkins]

Only 15 times?Destroyed the Giants 31-7 late in the season. Ran the ball, passed the ball, did it all. Of course, it was the Giants, but you gotta start somewhere.

[Rock Chalk]

If Denver is better everywhere but safety AND has home field advantage, this game shouldn't be close at all. Should be a Denver win by four or five touchdowns.
Glad to see you are finally coming around :thumbs:

[elsid13]

If Denver is better everywhere but safety AND has home field advantage, this game shouldn't be close at all. Should be a Denver win by four or five touchdowns.


Like I posted before, this will be the first team your team faced, that is has potential to be very good and real contender. Do you thinks Bears, CowGirls or The Seahags have chance to make the playoffs???

[Ballhawk]

I will say that if the WA O performs like it did against Dallas, the score won't be anywhere close by the last 5 mins of the game. If Denver wins TOP then we will win by 10.

[SpenceSkins]

Like I posted before, this will be the first team your team faced, that is has potential to be very good and real contender. Do you thinks Bears, CowGirls or The Seahags have chance to make the playoffs???If you think the Seahawks have no chance to make the playoffs, you've never had a look at the NFC West. Check again and then think again.

[Rock Chalk]

If you think the Seahawks have no chance to make the playoffs, you've never had a look at the NFC West. Check again and then think again.
Let me rephrase for him then.

If you think any of those teams has a chance at advancing in the playoffs...

[elsid13]

If you think the Seahawks have no chance to make the playoffs, you've never had a look at the NFC West. Check again and then think again.


Then you answered the question on the class of teams that skins have beat so far this year.

[SpenceSkins]

Look, I've tried to make myself clear, but apparently my language isn't plain enough for some of you. [Some others of you manage the English language just fine. Perhaps you could instruct the others.] Here goes:

-- The Broncos are favored and they should be.

-- The Broncos look like the best team the Redskins will have faced after four games.

-- This should be the toughest game the Redskins have played all season and they will almost certainly have to play better this week than they have in the first three weeks if they are to win.

There. Now, I understand a large percentage of you consider it rude for the fans of any other team to expect to lose by less than 87 points every single time they face the Broncos. I'm not going to be able to make you fellows happy. You should probably just avoid reading my posts or shoot yourselves in the head -- whichever seems like a more productive use of your time.

I came here hoping to have a reasonable discussion with some Broncos fans. It took a while to find some of you, but I did, eventually. It was a pleasure. Hopefully, I'll be able to check back with you later in the week and after the game. Until then...

[RedskinsDave]

Look, I've tried to make myself clear, but apparently my language isn't plain enough for some of you. [Some others of you manage the English language just fine. Perhaps you could instruct the others.] Here goes:

-- The Broncos are favored and they should be.

-- The Broncos look like the best team the Redskins will have faced after four games.

-- This should be the toughest game the Redskins have played all season and they will almost certainly have to play better this week than they have in the first three weeks if they are to win.

There. Now, I understand a large percentage of you consider it rude for the fans of any other team to expect to lose by less than 87 points every single time they face the Broncos. I'm not going to be able to make you fellows happy. You should probably just avoid reading my posts or shoot yourselves in the head -- whichever seems like a more productive use of your time.

I came here hoping to have a reasonable discussion with some Broncos fans. It took a while to find some of you, but I did, eventually. It was a pleasure. Hopefully, I'll be able to check back with you later in the week and after the game. Until then...

Just grabbed a number out of the air huh? :~ohyah!:

[AboveAverage]

Call me crazy, arrogant, whatever. This game does not scare me in the least. I have said that about games before, and been totally shocked, but such is the NFL. The Redskins appear to be frauds, and will likely get exposed this weekend. Hopefully the players don't think like I do though. :)

[2KBack]

Call me crazy, arrogant, whatever. This game does not scare me in the least. I have said that about games before, and been totally shocked, but such is the NFL. The Redskins appear to be frauds, and will likely get exposed this weekend. Hopefully the players don't think like I do though. :)

In today's NFL, every game scares me.

[Bronco LB 59]

Redskins fans

My friend who is a fellow Washington fan tells me that Lavar Arrington is riding the pine. Is this true?

[Bronco LB 59]

In today's NFL, every game scares me.

I agree

In addition, it's difficult to get overconfident about facing a Joe Gibbs coached team or even a Gregg Williams coached defense for that matter.

[elsid13]

Redskins fans

My friend who is a fellow Washington fan tells me that Lavar Arrington is riding the pine. Is this true?


Yeah, he on the outs with the coaching staff. On the John Thompson show this afternoon, Lavar said that he really didn't know why and none of the coaches had told him anything. Also Lavar stated that he never refused to play special teams like what was reported on FOX

[RedskinsDave]

Redskins fans

My friend who is a fellow Washington fan tells me that Lavar Arrington is riding the pine. Is this true?

Yes. The debate is over whether he is hurt or whether he is not disciplined enough for Greg Williams defense. I think it's a little of both but lean towards the latter.

[Kaylore]

I don't like the attitude of some of the Denver fans. They're all saying a blowout. I think they only way we beat the 'skins is treat them like an undefeated team - which is what they are. They have a great Defense that keeps them in games, and it only takes a few plays to bust a 14 point lead vis-a-vis the Cowgirls game.

They have momentum, they are starting to believe in themselves and they certainly aren't looking past us. We need to give them props and attack them aggresively or the pride-Karma will bite us in the ass.

[rbackfactory80]

I don't like the attitude of some of the Denver fans. They're all saying a blowout. I think they only way we beat the 'skins is treat them like an undefeated team - which is what they are. They have a great Defense that keeps them in games, and it only takes a few plays to bust a 14 point lead vis-a-vis the Cowgirls game.

They have momentum, they are starting to believe in themselves and they certainly aren't looking past us. We need to give them props and attack them aggresively or the pride-Karma will bite us in the ass.

I am in total agreement here. Seeing that their record is 3-0 I think it will be hard to look past this one. These are the most important games for us to win, the ones we are supposed to. Their defensive however is good enough to give them a real shot.

[jrockster77]

I expect an influx of Hogettes any minute. Extremeskins has the lowest average IQ of any team message board anywhere, hands down. But what they lack in intelligence they more than make up for in classlessness.


I find it ironic that you comment on how unclassy we are over at ES in the same breath as commenting on how low our IQ is.

As far as Denver's LBs being slow, I agree...that was a dumb statement to make. Fortunately it wasn't me who made it.

Call me a homer or stupid or whatever you want, but this game is going to be a lot closer than some of you seem to think. Our defense is going to keep us in EVERY game this year, just as it did last year. Denver, while your offense is potent, is nevertheless quarterbacked by Jake the Snake, whom I'm sure you all know has a propensity to make mistakes when under pressure, and Williams will be bringing the pressure.

Can we stop the run? We've had a LOT of success doing that in the past...it will definitely be fun to watch. Your rushing offense vs. our rushing defense. It will be a true test for our defense.

You can say what you want about the opponents we've beaten (the comment about the special olympics was pretty funny! :laugh: ), but we're still 3-0, and this year we're finding ways to win the close games. True, the Seattle game may have been a touch of divine intervention causing that field goal to be missed, but kickers miss field goals, its the NFL. It happens all the time; this one just got more attention because it was with 1 second left to win the game.

I think the deciding factor is going to be how the Skins handle Mile-High. If we can be in good enough condition to not be panting by half-time, we've got a good chance. It will definitely be a hard-fought battle, and I predict a 24-21 Skins victory.

Is Champ going to play? I'd love to see him get smoked...:D

[jrockster77]

Redskins fans

My friend who is a fellow Washington fan tells me that Lavar Arrington is riding the pine. Is this true?


Yes -- he's not in a lot of "packages" as Williams likes to say. As some of you may know, he had a pretty serious knee injury last season, and was rushed back in. This year, they are taking it very very slow, as last year HE was the one complaining he was rushed back too fast.

There is a lot of speculation that he doesn't fit into the system or whatever, but I think that is all bunk. LA is an asset when he is on the field, and I think Williams knows that and is trying to get him back on the field as soon as possible. There is also the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But, in my opinion, we've had some serious trouble generating turnovers so far this year (two against the Turds that were ruled otherwise, but that is another story) and Arrington has a knack for creating turnovers. So......we shall see, I suppose.

[elsid13]

Yes -- he's not in a lot of "packages" as Williams likes to say. As some of you may know, he had a pretty serious knee injury last season, and was rushed back in. This year, they are taking it very very slow, as last year HE was the one complaining he was rushed back too fast.

There is a lot of speculation that he doesn't fit into the system or whatever, but I think that is all bunk. LA is an asset when he is on the field, and I think Williams knows that and is trying to get him back on the field as soon as possible. There is also the old adage, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." But, in my opinion, we've had some serious trouble generating turnovers so far this year (two against the Turds that were ruled otherwise, but that is another story) and Arrington has a knack for creating turnovers. So......we shall see, I suppose.

See my post above, it interesting that no one is telling Lavar anything. And he keeps saying he ready to go. There is potential problem here.

[jrockster77]

I don't like the attitude of some of the Denver fans. They're all saying a blowout. I think they only way we beat the 'skins is treat them like an undefeated team - which is what they are. They have a great Defense that keeps them in games, and it only takes a few plays to bust a 14 point lead vis-a-vis the Cowgirls game.

They have momentum, they are starting to believe in themselves and they certainly aren't looking past us. We need to give them props and attack them aggresively or the pride-Karma will bite us in the ass.

This is true....we may be 3-0 against not great teams, but we're still 3-0. We don't get to pick our opponents -- its not our choice that we're 3-0 against scrub teams! :)

You hit it on the head when you said we're gaining confidence; nothing could be more true. This team, contrary to what all the "experts" are saying, is going to be dangerous. Its not out of the question to think we could go into Mile-High and steal one. We'll see though; that's why they play the games, as they say...

[Kaylore]

Call me crazy, arrogant, whatever. This game does not scare me in the least. I have said that about games before, and been totally shocked, but such is the NFL. The Redskins appear to be frauds, and will likely get exposed this weekend. Hopefully the players don't think like I do though. :)
The Patriots won all their games close. It doesn't have be pretty or a blowout, you just have to have more points in the end. Now I'm not saying that the Redskins and the Patriots are comparable. Its the NFL and anything can happen. If we don't blow them out, I wouldn't be surprised. We need to win all our home games, and thankfully Shanahan doesn't look past anybody - especially if they have a good record.

[jrockster77]

See my post above, it interesting that no one is telling Lavar anything. And he keeps saying he ready to go. There is potential problem here.


Yeah, I'm not sure why he says no one is telling him anything; the coaches have told the media everything so I'm sure they've told him. He may say he's 100% healthy, but what athelete doesn't want to get back on to the field right away? I believe he is being told the same things we are...I honestly have no idea why he says he's not being told anything. Possibly he suspects that he doesn't fit into the system and feels the coaches aren't being honest about it? ???

I for one am a huge Arrington supporter, and I think we'll see him on the field a lot more in the next few weeks, especially if we don't start generating turnovers. Maybe not against you guys, but we'll see...

[watermock]

I don't like the attitude of some of the Denver fans. They're all saying a blowout. I think they only way we beat the 'skins is treat them like an undefeated team - which is what they are. They have a great Defense that keeps them in games, and it only takes a few plays to bust a 14 point lead vis-a-vis the Cowgirls game.

They have momentum, they are starting to believe in themselves and they certainly aren't looking past us. We need to give them props and attack them aggresively or the pride-Karma will bite us in the ass.

I'm not discounting an undefeated team at all, not matter that they have lucked out twice.

[elsid13]

Yeah, I'm not sure why he says no one is telling him anything; the coaches have told the media everything so I'm sure they've told him. He may say he's 100% healthy, but what athelete doesn't want to get back on to the field right away? I believe he is being told the same things we are...I honestly have no idea why he says he's not being told anything. Possibly he suspects that he doesn't fit into the system and feels the coaches aren't being honest about it? ???

I for one am a huge Arrington supporter, and I think we'll see him on the field a lot more in the next few weeks, especially if we don't start generating turnovers. Maybe not against you guys, but we'll see...


Best part of today was the folks calling into 980 asking what they could get for Lavar in trade. God, I love the DC area

[jrockster77]

The Patriots won all their games close. It doesn't have be pretty or a blowout, you just have to have more points in the end. Now I'm not saying that the Redskins and the Patriots are comparable. Its the NFL and anything can happen. If we don't blow them out, I wouldn't be surprised. We need to win all our home games, and thankfully Shanahan doesn't look past anybody - especially if they have a good record.


It would be a good bet to say that Shanahan is looking very hard at the Skins. Most of the mediots are saying we're "the worst 3-0 team in the history of the NFL". I don't think any coach wants to lose to us when people are saying that.

Not to mention I think Shanny boy has some personal motivation to beat Clinton...any thoughts on that?

[TheDave]

Sorry folks but i don't see this one as that big of a challenge... Sure the Bronc's could over look them, all decide to get high in the locker room before the game, and replace the gatorade with orange MD 20/20... But barring that i see this as another statement game. This team seems to have a major chip on their shoulder and feasting on an overated NFC team might be just the ticket! Every skin fan here has said that they have no pass rush...Been there done that, we know what this leads to when you start playing good teams.

End result...

24-10 :Broncos:

[Northman]

Well, living in MD i get to see a lot of this pathetic team. sure, the defense is stellar but trust me when i say this. IF WE DONT TURN THE BALL OVER then we will win this game. those assclowns tend to forget real easy that they were 6 minutes and 1 Fg doink away from being 1-2. talk about being hit with a lucky horseshoe. im not sweating this game, unlike the Seachickens, we wont have to blitz to get pressure on slowpoke Brunell and Portis better be ready to meet our slow * cough yea right cough * linebackers. like i said, if Jake and company dont turn the ball over i know the Foreskins will so we are in good shape.

[jrockster77]

Best part of today was the folks calling into 980 asking what they could get for Lavar in trade. God, I love the DC area


Any fan who thinks we will trade Arrington is not aware of the salary cap. He has something like a 12 million dollar cap hit next season. I think they will convert his roster bonus into a signing bonus to lessen that number, but if we trade him its still all accelerated onto the present cap. Its financially impossible to move him at this point unless he takes a serious pay-cut, which he won't.

And come on, there are fans like that on every team, not just the Redskins.

[elsid13]

Any fan who thinks we will trade Arrington is not aware of the salary cap. He has something like a 12 million dollar cap hit next season. I think they will convert his roster bonus into a signing bonus to lessen that number, but if we trade him its still all accelerated onto the present cap. Its financially impossible to move him at this point unless he takes a serious pay-cut, which he won't.

And come on, there are fans like that on every team, not just the Redskins.


And have him sitting on the beach hurt worse, you can not pay that much and not play him. Yah I know about the cap hit, that contract make him unmovable, and cutting him would kill the skins next.

[jrockster77]

Sorry folks but i don't see this one as that big of a challenge... Sure the Bronc's could over look them, all decide to get high in the locker room before the game, and replace the gatorade with orange MD 20/20... But barring that i see this as another statement game. This team seems to have a major chip on their shoulder and feasting on an overated NFC team might be just the ticket! Every skin fan here has said that they have no pass rush...Been there done that, we know what this leads to when you start playing good teams.

End result...

24-10 :Broncos:

Hey, I give you guys a few more points than that, you'll keep it respectable! 24-21 Skins Nnyah!

[watermock]

Yeah yeah yeah...

I do like the term MedIots tho.

We pretty much sort thru the Mediots as fun....

As far as your sensless yapping goes, Portis is going to find a stone wall.

[TheDave]

Hey, I give you guys a few more points than that, you'll keep it respectable! 24-21 Skins Nnyah!

You better hope this goes in all the Gatorade barrels then...;)

http://www.winostuff.com/images/md2020.jpg

[jrockster77]

Well, living in MD i get to see a lot of this pathetic team. sure, the defense is stellar but trust me when i say this. IF WE DONT TURN THE BALL OVER then we will win this game. those assclowns tend to forget real easy that they were 6 minutes and 1 Fg doink away from being 1-2. talk about being hit with a lucky horseshoe. im not sweating this game, unlike the Seachickens, we wont have to blitz to get pressure on slowpoke Brunell and Portis better be ready to meet our slow * cough yea right cough * linebackers. like i said, if Jake and company dont turn the ball over i know the Foreskins will so we are in good shape.

Assclowns? Come on, man...you don't benefit yourself by insulting others.

I love it when everyone says the Dallas game was so "lucky". Its not like the bombs were hail marys or something like that; those are lucky passes. They were two designed plays to Moss; the first one Moss made a spectacular adjusment to the ball in mid-air and caught it in traffic. The second one was a perfect throw from Brunell and hit Moss in-stride and he walked into the endzone. How are those luck?

Against Seattle -- kickers miss field goals; that's just the NFL. If you're going to call that win luck, then you're calling about 30-40% of all NFL wins lucky. Okay, I pulled that number out of my ass, but if you were to go back and analyze every victory in the past 5 years or so, and see how many teams lost by 3 points or less AND missed at least one field goal in the game, there would be quite a large number of them, I'm sure. Not every team has a reliable kicker like Elam or Vinatieri.

[YYZ]

Best part of today was the folks calling into 980 asking what they could get for Lavar in trade. God, I love the DC area

C'mon man, there are idiots everywhere... I don't know why Denver people have to be so arrogant.

There are plenty of uneducated fans everywhere.

[jrockster77]

Yeah yeah yeah...

I do like the term MedIots tho.

We pretty much sort thru the Mediots as fun....

As far as your sensless yapping goes, Portis is going to find a stone wall.

:cheers:

I don't know if they coined it over at ES, but that's the first time I ever heard it! I think that's something that all NFL fans (except maybe Patriot and Cowturd fans) can agree on -- sports "analysts" couldn't find their ass crack with a road map.

[YYZ]

Yeah yeah yeah...

I do like the term MedIots tho.

We pretty much sort thru the Mediots as fun....

As far as your sensless yapping goes, Portis is going to find a stone wall.

The reason we don't just pass over the mediots is because guys like King, Dr. Z, and Pasquerelli actually call out the fans in their articles. I guess we're doing a good job. :)

[SittingBull]

Sorry folks but i don't see this one as that big of a challenge...

I certainly hope Shannahan feels the same way. I hope he thinks he can move the ball against our D as easily as they did against KC and disrupt the pass protection as easily as they did against the Jags. It'll be that much more of a rude awakening when the game actually starts. Whoever wins it'll be an ugly low scoring game. I'll definitely bet on the under no matter how low it is for this game.

[Northman]

Assclowns? Come on, man...you don't benefit yourself by insulting others.

I love it when everyone says the Dallas game was so "lucky". Its not like the bombs were hail marys or something like that; those are lucky passes. They were two designed plays to Moss; the first one Moss made a spectacular adjusment to the ball in mid-air and caught it in traffic. The second one was a perfect throw from Brunell and hit Moss in-stride and he walked into the endzone. How are those luck?

Against Seattle -- kickers miss field goals; that's just the NFL. If you're going to call that win luck, then you're calling about 30-40% of all NFL wins lucky. Okay, I pulled that number out of my ass, but if you were to go back and analyze every victory in the past 5 years or so, and see how many teams lost by 3 points or less AND missed at least one field goal in the game, there would be quite a large number of them, I'm sure. Not every team has a reliable kicker like Elam or Vinatieri.



Your right, i shouldnt ' generalize ' every Skins fan but i was throwing that out to the ones who somehow think our Linebackers are slow and that all of a sudden the Skins will win the Super Bowl. its just not going to happen ( at least this year ). and im not proclaiming the Broncs to win it either. and as for your comment about the Fg kickers, of course its how the NFL is but im trying to bring some of you back down from that Cloud some of you guys are on. lets be realistic here, you guys have gotten some lucky breaks the last couple of weeks. your not the only ones though that are already going overboard, ive heard the same garbage today from Ravens fans about beating a 3rd string Quarterback. the bottom line is, this will be a tough game but i just dont see you guys beating us the way we've been playing the last 3 weeks.

[TheDave]

I certainly hope Shannahan feels the same way. I hope he thinks he can move the ball against our D as easily as they did against KC and disrupt the pass protection as easily as they did against the Jags. It'll be that much more of a rude awakening when the game actually starts. Whoever wins it'll be an ugly low scoring game. I'll definitely bet on the under no matter how low it is for this game.

Trust me he doesn't... I'm telling you guys, this team plays with a chip on their shoulder like i've never seen. Barring a complete meltdown (been a fan long enough to see a few of those) this is going to be a very long 4 quarters for you guys.

[elsid13]

TJ on count down was laughing on the skins 3-0 start, michael Irvan was propping the players for the UM. Jaws was defend them. Wonder who right?

[jrockster77]

Your right, i shouldnt ' generalize ' every Skins fan but i was throwing that out to the ones who somehow think our Linebackers are slow and that all of a sudden the Skins will win the Super Bowl. its just not going to happen ( at least this year ). and im not proclaiming the Broncs to win it either. and as for your comment about the Fg kickers, of course its how the NFL is but im trying to bring some of you back down from that Cloud some of you guys are on. lets be realistic here, you guys have gotten some lucky breaks the last couple of weeks. your not the only ones though that are already going overboard, ive heard the same garbage today from Ravens fans about beating a 3rd string Quarterback. the bottom line is, this will be a tough game but i just dont see you guys beating us the way we've been playing the last 3 weeks.


It will definitely be a tough game, that is for sure. And yes, we've had some bounces go our way the past few weeks; but we've also had some not go our way. Last year we had almost nothing go our way. This year the difference is we've learned how to win close games, even if not everything goes our way.

Yes, Brown missed a 47 yard field goal to win the game. But, we got the ball in overtime and basically walked all over Seattle to win. We could have scored a TD just as easily as we kicked the winning FG, that's how easy it was to move the ball on them in OT. So it wasn't like the missed FG did it; we could have just as easily turned the ball over again in OT or something like that, but we manned-up and punched the Seahawks in the mouth.

I will say this game will be decided by 3-7 points, and will NOT be a blowout by any stretch of the imagination.

[Rock Chalk]

I don't like the attitude of some of the Denver fans. They're all saying a blowout. I think they only way we beat the 'skins is treat them like an undefeated team - which is what they are. They have a great Defense that keeps them in games, and it only takes a few plays to bust a 14 point lead vis-a-vis the Cowgirls game.

They have momentum, they are starting to believe in themselves and they certainly aren't looking past us. We need to give them props and attack them aggresively or the pride-Karma will bite us in the ass.
The only reason I ever even brought up blowout, is because of the way their stupid ass fans were acting on extremeskinz. And while that may not be the majority of the populace, the two threads I read on the subject of Denver had them blowing us out. We might as well keep our boys at home on Sunday, because its just going to be silly for us.

I dont believe that they have a great defense. Their only real test came against Seattle who got to conveniently pad their offensive stats against Arizona (and pretty much any team could have actually put up more offensive output than Seattle did in that game). Chicago has no offense and Washington still let them score and Dallas will be lucky to crack the top 15 in offenses this year.

When I see the Foreskins, I see the exact same team as last year, cellar dwellers. The only difference between last year and this year was some lucky breaks on their part that didnt go their way last year.

They will need a lot more than luck to stop us.

[SittingBull]

Why a chip on their shoulder? The media and other teams respect you and you are expected to win this game at home. All the Skins have to do is read a Peter Queen or Dr Zoloft article to get riled up. People, not only on this board, continuing to say the wins are flukes and stupid things like "worst 3-0 team in history" makes you come out and play. The Skins are gonna bring it hard Sunday.

[Rock Chalk]

Why a chip on their shoulder? The media and other teams respect you and you are expected to win this game at home. All the Skins have to do is read a Peter Queen or Dr Zoloft article to get riled up. People, not only on this board, continuing to say the wins are flukes and stupid things like "worst 3-0 team in history" makes you come out and play. The Skins are gonna bring it hard Sunday.
The media respects Denver? Hilarious!

[SittingBull]

The media respects Denver? Hilarious!


Well not after that heartbreaking loss to Miami but generally speaking I believe so. Maybe after experiencing the gang bang the Skins have endured the past few years my opinion is a little degraded.

[TheDave]

Why a chip on their shoulder? The media and other teams respect you and you are expected to win this game at home. All the Skins have to do is read a Peter Queen or Dr Zoloft article to get riled up. People, not only on this board, continuing to say the wins are flukes and stupid things like "worst 3-0 team in history" makes you come out and play. The Skins are gonna bring it hard Sunday.

Our entire D-Line was just released from another team and are all playing in "Contract Years". The national media had Denver placing 3rd in the division (for the most part) and every member of the local media spent the entire off season making fun of them. Maybe that's how things usually go in DC but around here that is unusual to say the least.

The best thing is, after the Miami debacle the entire team seems to be playing with a sense of urgency that i haven't see since the late 90's. I'd love to say that i wish your team the best but that would be a major lie, I'm still hoping for a top 10 pick from you this year... This Sunday your boys are going to do their best to stand in the way of progress. Do me a favor if you have kids don't let them watch ;)

[elsid13]

Well not after that heartbreaking loss to Miami but generally speaking I believe so. Maybe after experiencing the gang bang the Skins have endured the past few years my opinion is a little degraded.


Last three week, the media has picked us to loss, and get domainated. Every week we after the win, it Denver got lucky, If there is some reporter outside Denver propping us to win, I like to meet him/her

[jrockster77]

I dont believe that they have a great defense. Their only real test came against Seattle who got to conveniently pad their offensive stats against Arizona (and pretty much any team could have actually put up more offensive output than Seattle did in that game). Chicago has no offense and Washington still let them score and Dallas will be lucky to crack the top 15 in offenses this year.

When I see the Foreskins, I see the exact same team as last year, cellar dwellers. The only difference between last year and this year was some lucky breaks on their part that didnt go their way last year.

They will need a lot more than luck to stop us.

Not a great defense? Need I remind you it was number 3 in the NFL last year? The offense was the reason we lost so many games. This year, the defense doesn't look like its skipped a beat.

By the way, saying Seattle doesn't have a great offense is just blind homerism on your part -- you might want to pay attention to the rest of the NFL a wee bit more. Not saying they're a tough team, but they are perennially in the playoff hunt.

The differences between this year and last year are a healthy Brunell, and the team is believing. We are finding ways to win close games, unlike last year.

[scorpio]

The great thing about these opposing team smack threads is you only have to read every third page.

[Rock Chalk]

Well not after that heartbreaking loss to Miami but generally speaking I believe so. Maybe after experiencing the gang bang the Skins have endured the past few years my opinion is a little degraded.
Well, teh Skinz lack of respect is mostly deserved. They have been pretty horrendous in previous years. Denver still gets bagged on incessantly (the love fest with Pitt, NE and Indy, KC and Philly never ends) and this is a team that has only had 1 losing record in like 12 years or something.

[TheDave]

Not a great defense? Need I remind you it was number 3 in the NFL last year? The offense was the reason we lost so many games. This year, the defense doesn't look like its skipped a beat.

By the way, saying Seattle doesn't have a great offense is just blind homerism on your part -- you might want to pay attention to the rest of the NFL a wee bit more. Not saying they're a tough team, but they are perennially in the playoff hunt.

The differences between this year and last year are a healthy Brunell, and the team is believing. We are finding ways to win close games, unlike last year.

Up untill a couple of seasons ago we played seattle twice every year... Trust me there is nothing tough about that group.

[Rock Chalk]

Not a great defense? Need I remind you it was number 3 in the NFL last year? The offense was the reason we lost so many games. This year, the defense doesn't look like its skipped a beat.

By the way, saying Seattle doesn't have a great offense is just blind homerism on your part -- you might want to pay attention to the rest of the NFL a wee bit more. Not saying they're a tough team, but they are perennially in the playoff hunt.

The differences between this year and last year are a healthy Brunell, and the team is believing. We are finding ways to win close games, unlike last year.
Dude, perennially in the playoff hunt is easy in the NFC. Holding down anemic offenses in the NFC will make you look like you have a #3 defense.

Denver had a #4 defense last year going against some of the more prolific offenses the NFL has seen in a long time. KC twice, Indy (yes it was their scrubs), SD twice. I mean, its not like you guys have to play Priest Holmes and LT twice a year do ya?

[Northman]

It will definitely be a tough game, that is for sure. And yes, we've had some bounces go our way the past few weeks; but we've also had some not go our way. Last year we had almost nothing go our way. This year the difference is we've learned how to win close games, even if not everything goes our way.

Yes, Brown missed a 47 yard field goal to win the game. But, we got the ball in overtime and basically walked all over Seattle to win. We could have scored a TD just as easily as we kicked the winning FG, that's how easy it was to move the ball on them in OT. So it wasn't like the missed FG did it; we could have just as easily turned the ball over again in OT or something like that, but we manned-up and punched the Seahawks in the mouth.

I will say this game will be decided by 3-7 points, and will NOT be a blowout by any stretch of the imagination.



indeed and if there is one thing that i do fear about you guys is your coach. i wish Spurrier was still there than i would feel a little better but it is a HOF coach in Gibbs. ought to be a interesting game none the less.

[jrockster77]

Last three week, the media has picked us to loss, and get domainated. Every week we after the win, it Denver got lucky, If there is some reporter outside Denver propping us to win, I like to meet him/her


:laugh:

Try being the "worst 3-0 team in NFL history" for a few days, and then say the media doesn't respect the Broncos! The media hates on the Skins way worse than anyone else in the NFL. I think the Skins could be 12-0, and ESPN would be finding ways to say how terrible we actually are and how we're going to blow the rest of the season....

[Rock Chalk]

:laugh:

Try being the "worst 3-0 team in NFL history" for a few days, and then say the media doesn't respect the Broncos! The media hates on the Skins way worse than anyone else in the NFL. I think the Skins could be 12-0, and ESPN would be finding ways to say how terrible we actually are and how we're going to blow the rest of the season....
Bah, I remeber the love fest the media had when Gibbs was hired.

[SittingBull]

I agree, they did get a lot of crap for hiring the Browns line but after their performance on Monday night everything was ok again. We'll just have to wait and see who has the bigger chip on their shoulder a D-line not getting enough respect or a whole undefeated team not getting enough respect. I wouldnt want my kids to watch it win or lose. If we win it'll be an extremely ugly win and if we lose I think it'll be an ugly loss by 10+. Too bad Champ isnt likely to play. I really wanted him in the lineup to see what Moss could do against him.

[dj_stouty]

So, enough of the BS... how do you plan on stopping our "slow LB's". Talk about looking for educated football talk. Don't go to a Skins fan looking for that.

Eh...you are barking up the wrong tree with this. I'm not the one who said you had slow LBs. Take that up with someone else.

The reason I brought up the offensive stats of the Seahawks is because one of the members here called me to the task, and I provided them. Get over it.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Maybe that's how things usually go in DC but around here that is unusual to say the least.


Skins fans don't read the media, everyone is out to get them. Why do you think their own website is now the #1 source for all Skins info since they didn't like the WaPo being critical of the team? ExtremeSkins is the "X-Files" fansite of all NFL teams, there's always some huge conspiracy out to get the team.

Oh, and anyone who actually questions the trade with the Broncos is immediately labeled a Broncos fan, and anyone who doesn't predict a Skins win is labeled a fan of "X" team.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

:laugh:
The media hates on the Skins way worse than anyone else in the NFL. I think the Skins could be 12-0, and ESPN would be finding ways to say how terrible we actually are and how we're going to blow the rest of the season....

and here's a perfect example of my previous post.

[elsid13]

I amazed that everyone (media and skins fans) are talking up the confidence the skins are getting from pulling out the wins. A win in NFL can never be taken for granted. But at the same time the Broncos have in the last three game began to gain confidence on both side of the ball and the special teams ( a major weakness last couple of years) is playing at very high level. There is swagger that starting to develop around this team and that a good sign. Plus the offense line is starting to come together, and Cooper is getting better.

[Northman]

I amazed that everyone (media and skins fans) are talking up the confidence the skins are getting from pulling out the wins. A win in NFL can never be taken for granted. But at the same time the Broncos have in the last three game began to gain confidence on both side of the ball and the special teams ( a major weakness last couple of years) is playing at very high level. There is swagger that starting to develop around this team and that a good sign. Plus the offense line is starting to come together, and Cooper is getting better.


agreed, the most impressive stat to me is:

defense held

Jags- 7pts
Chargers- 17pts
Chiefs- 10pts

Turnover free football- Priceless

;)

[L2M]

You can go ahead and call it luck, but you can't call holding down an explosive Seattle offense, and a very good Dallas offense, to pedestrian numbers just plain luck.


As a displaced Broncos fan living in WA I can tell you that the Seahawks offense is not 'explosive'. Seattle lost to Jax 26-14 in week 1. The only team that Seattle dominated was the Cardinals. Hardly an 'explosive' offense. hmmm...

[jrockster77]

Skins fans don't read the media, everyone is out to get them. Why do you think their own website is now the #1 source for all Skins info since they didn't like the WaPo being critical of the team? ExtremeSkins is the "X-Files" fansite of all NFL teams, there's always some huge conspiracy out to get the team.

Oh, and anyone who actually questions the trade with the Broncos is immediately labeled a Broncos fan, and anyone who doesn't predict a Skins win is labeled a fan of "X" team.


Speak for yourself, HR. I read "the media" all the time. "the media" is full of articles that are anti-skins. I'm willing to bet anything that I read more of "the media" with respect to the Skins than you do. The Washington Post wrote some non-factual articles about the Skins, which is why the team yanked their free-tickets and why they do not give them the scoop anymore. Plain and simple.

And are you really going to start talking about how we are always saying the media hates us when only a few posts above you your orange-mane mates are saying the same thing about Denver? Really?

Dude...did anyone bring up "the trade?" Bailey wanted out of Washington, Portis wanted out of Denver. Its worked out well for both teams so far, I'd imagine. You still got annhilated by the Colts in the playoffs, but up until then you had a good defense. You're bringing it up, so you must be the only one still hung up on it.

I'm holding back, because I don't want to be labeled a troll. But we were having an intelligent football discussion, so please try and post elsewhere.

[watermock]

All this means is we kick your ass back to the craphole.

[Northman]

I do have to defend JR a bit here. there is quite a bit of hammering done on the skins right now, mainly with their offense. i think the Ravens get more love for their team than the Skins do at this point and their records are totally different.

[Tombstone RJ]

Speak for yourself, HR. I read "the media" all the time. "the media" is full of articles that are anti-skins. I'm willing to bet anything that I read more of "the media" with respect to the Skins than you do. The Washington Post wrote some non-factual articles about the Skins, which is why the team yanked their free-tickets and why they do not give them the scoop anymore. Plain and simple.

And are you really going to start talking about how we are always saying the media hates us when only a few posts above you your orange-mane mates are saying the same thing about Denver? Really?

Dude...did anyone bring up "the trade?" Bailey wanted out of Washington, Portis wanted out of Denver. Its worked out well for both teams so far, I'd imagine. You still got annhilated by the Colts in the playoffs, but up until then you had a good defense. You're bringing it up, so you must be the only one still hung up on it.

I'm holding back, because I don't want to be labeled a troll. But we were having an intelligent football discussion, so please try and post elsewhere.

It looks like fans of both teams feel the media, in general, is not kind to either team. Being a Broncos fan, I know for a fact the national media either ignores or flat out disrespect the Broncos, and has (esp. the East Cost media) for years and years.

Want proof. Ok.

The Broncos have been to the SB six times since 1977. They have had some of the all time great NFL players on defense, yet the the Broncos have only one player in the HOF. One.

That Player is Elway, and he was elected last year.

Name one other team in the NFL that has played in 6 SBs, won two titles and has only one HOF.

I'm betting you can't.

That is called "no respect."

[dj_stouty]

The one thing the Redskins can hang their hat on...is the fact that Brunell has finally started to gel with his receivers. That is proved by the five drives of 10+ plays they had last week against Seattle. They don't need to be worldbeaters...but they need to continue to play mistake free football on offense.

[dj_stouty]

Name one other team in the NFL that has played in 6 SBs, won two titles and has only one HOF.

I'm betting you can't.

That is called "no respect."

I can name plenty of guys who played for a certain Redskins team who won three super bowls who have been overlooked by the HOF.

You arent' alone...

[TheDave]

That is proved by the five drives of 10+ plays they had last week against Seattle.

Ray Rhodes... Enough said

[Tombstone RJ]

I can name plenty of guys who played for a certain Redskins team who won three super bowls who have been overlooked by the HOF.

You arent' alone...

Yah, but how many HOF's does the skins already have in the hall?

Its not the same thing....

[jrockster77]

It looks like fans of both teams feel the media, in general, is not kind to either team. Being a Broncos fan, I know for a fact the national media either ignores or flat out disrespect the Broncos, and has (esp. the East Cost media) for years and years.

Want proof. Ok.

The Broncos have been to the SB six times since 1977. They have had some of the all time great NFL players on defense, yet the the Broncos have only one player in the HOF. One.

That Player is Elway, and he was elected last year.

Name one other team in the NFL that has played in 6 SBs, won two titles and has only one HOF.

I'm betting you can't.

That is called "no respect."


The Skins have only one player (John Riggins) in the HoF from the 80's and early 90 teams coached by Gibbs. And we won 3 out of 4 superbowls in a span of 10 years! (one of which I bet you remember! Nnyah!)

[Tombstone RJ]

The Skins have only one player (John Riggins) in the HoF from the 80's and early 90 teams coached by Gibbs. And we won 3 out of 4 superbowls in a span of 10 years! (one of which I bet you remember! Nnyah!)

Again, not the same thing. Gibbs is in the HOF, so is Riggins. I'm betting there will be more Skins from those teams admitted into the HOF, before any Broncos are.

The Broncos have been around since the original AFL started back in 1960. The are the first professional football team to start a black QB. They had one of the all time best defenses in the entire NFL that got them to their first SB in 1977.

They have some history, but only one HOFer.

[jrockster77]

Yah, but how many HOF's does the skins already have in the hall?

Its not the same thing....


The Skins have 10 or 11 players in the HoF, all of whom (except Riggins) are from a long time ago and a galaxy far far away. That is pretty messed up though that Elway is your only hall of famer....at least he got in, right?

[Northman]

The Skins have 10 or 11 players in the HoF, all of whom (except Riggins) are from a long time ago and a galaxy far far away. That is pretty messed up though that Elway is your only hall of famer....at least he got in, right?


Heh, there would have been a mutiny had he not. lol

[jrockster77]

I do have to defend JR a bit here. there is quite a bit of hammering done on the skins right now, mainly with their offense. i think the Ravens get more love for their team than the Skins do at this point and their records are totally different.


:cheers:

I honestly don't really follow many teams outside of the NFC East, so I don't know what the media has said about the Broncos. From what I've seen, however, they always seem to paint them in a more positive light than the Skins....just my observations.

[Northman]

:cheers:

I honestly don't really follow many teams outside of the NFC East, so I don't know what the media has said about the Broncos. From what I've seen, however, they always seem to paint them in a more positive light than the Skins....just my observations.


if there is any positive over the redskins, it aint much. Denver is pretty much loathed by most of the media. even former players were abandoning us after the Dulphin fiasco.

[24champ]

The Skins have only one player (John Riggins) in the HoF from the 80's and early 90 teams coached by Gibbs. And we won 3 out of 4 superbowls in a span of 10 years! (one of which I bet you remember! Nnyah!)
And in the Salary cap era, your team took a crap. Snyder hired some great coaches in Spurrier and Turner. Let go a good running back in Stephen Davis, Trotter was let go, Terry Pierce is gone, couldnt sign Courtney Brown because he knows you guys suck. If I was a fan of the redskins I would bring up the 1980s too because the modern day redskins is one sorry club.

[Iowanian]

Stopping Portis ...... Would be tickled pink if we hold him to 12 yards ;D ...... Dont see that happening though .... hmmmmm Interesting poll


So much for making it to that first day of "work".

[jrockster77]

And in the Salary cap era, your team took a crap. Snyder hired some great coaches in Spurrier and Turner. Let go a good running back in Stephen Davis, Trotter was let go, Terry Pierce is gone, couldnt sign Courtney Brown because he knows you guys suck. If I was a fan of the redskins I would bring up the 1980s too because the modern day redskins is one sorry club.


Ahhh...hmmm. Where to start with this post. Dan Snyder bought the team in 1999, well after Norv Turner had been hired to be the coach. His first year he went ape **** on free-agent spending, a move he admits was a mistake.

Snyder did hire Spurrier, after he let Schottenheimer go (the players were not buying in...I thought it wasn't a great move, but I wasn't in charge). Spurrier, another bad move I thought, was the one that decided to let Stephen Davis go. He didn't fit into Spurrier's offense; Spurrier had total personell control, which is obvious when you look at all the UF players he brought in. (including Danny *shudder* Weurffel) Trotter blew out his knee, and then wouldn't take a pay cut. He wasn't really living up to his pro-bowl play here anyway. Antonio Pierce was another mistake, but that was a salary cap restriction, not any decision by Snyder.

Courtney Brown was offered an incentive-laden contract for the vet minimum; I'm not sure what the Broncos offered him, but considering his injury history, I hope it wasn't too much. How is he playing, by the way?

Also, you took my comment out of context; we were talking about the media's disrespect of both teams, the hall of fame in particular. So, try to know what your talking about before you speak on it. That's a general principle that works well for everything.

[Tombstone RJ]

Ahhh...hmmm. Where to start with this post. Dan Snyder bought the team in 1999, well after Norv Turner had been hired to be the coach. His first year he went ape **** on free-agent spending, a move he admits was a mistake.

Snyder did hire Spurrier, after he let Schottenheimer go (the players were not buying in...I thought it wasn't a great move, but I wasn't in charge). Spurrier, another bad move I thought, was the one that decided to let Stephen Davis go. He didn't fit into Spurrier's offense; Spurrier had total personell control, which is obvious when you look at all the UF players he brought in. (including Danny *shudder* Weurffel) Trotter blew out his knee, and then wouldn't take a pay cut. He wasn't really living up to his pro-bowl play here anyway. Antonio Pierce was another mistake, but that was a salary cap restriction, not any decision by Snyder.

Courtney Brown was offered an incentive-laden contract for the vet minimum; I'm not sure what the Broncos offered him, but considering his injury history, I hope it wasn't too much. How is he playing, by the way?

Also, you took my comment out of context; we were talking about the media's disrespect of both teams, the hall of fame in particular. So, try to know what your talking about before you speak on it. That's a general principle that works well for everything.


I just saw an interview with Spurrier where he said he quit because he did not have control over the player personell moves. In other words, he stated the exact opposite of what you just said.

[Broncoman13]

JRock asked about Courtdawg. About the contract. We gave him 5 years and 60 million w/15 million up front.

He's playing terrible. I wish we had IHOP instead.







That should pretty much counter any hype somebody else flips. Don't believe the hype. Courtney is a slug. Hell, he's already been injured and missed time b/c of it! You guys were smart not to sign him... nothing to see here...move along!

[Broncoman13]

I just saw an interview with Spurrier where he said he quit because he did not have control over the player personell moves. In other words, he stated the exact opposite of what you just said.


Hey may not have had full control...but Woeful and the other Florida rejects were obviously brought in b/c he wanted them. They weren't paid enough to be Snyder's personal choices!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha!

[rbackfactory80]

So much for making it to that first day of "work".


Keep negative repping me. You are so ****ing immature. Grow up and take your frustrations about your horrible team on somebody that cares. You have to be the lamest queer that exist.

[Tombstone RJ]

Hey may not have had full control...but Woeful and the other Florida rejects were obviously brought in b/c he wanted them. They weren't paid enough to be Snyder's personal choices!!!!!!!!!!!! Ha!

Perhaps.

However, he said he didn't like coaching the Skins because he did not have control (whether complete control or partial control) over player personell.

[jrockster77]

I just saw an interview with Spurrier where he said he quit because he did not have control over the player personell moves. In other words, he stated the exact opposite of what you just said.

I was mistaken; Spurrier did not have total personell control; but he did have input. Regardless, it was his decision to let Davis go, as he did not fit into his system.

That may have been a reason Spurrier quit, but he also left because he knew he would not have success in the NFL. I think Snyder may have forced the issue in letting Danny Awful go (who can blame him?) and that may have made Spurrier upset. But it takes a fool to say that Spurrier did not have a big voice in personnel decisions when you see how many ex-Gators he brought in.

[elsid13]

Spurrier had some much control, he was visiting with fans at the FedEx Field when the draft was going on. Danny Boy and his pupper Vinny were drafting and signing players. Ramsey was personnel scouted by Danny. Spurrier end up in the wrong place and for the wrong owner.

[jrockster77]

JRock asked about Courtdawg. About the contract. We gave him 5 years and 60 million w/15 million up front.

He's playing terrible. I wish we had IHOP instead.







That should pretty much counter any hype somebody else flips. Don't believe the hype. Courtney is a slug. Hell, he's already been injured and missed time b/c of it! You guys were smart not to sign him... nothing to see here...move along!


Are you serious?? 5 years, 60 million dollars?? With 15 up front? Yeah, I wonder why he signed with the Broncos; that is way more than anyone else offered him.

[Tombstone RJ]

Are you serious?? 5 years, 60 million dollars?? With 15 up front? Yeah, I wonder why he signed with the Broncos; that is way more than anyone else offered him.

Actually, its 5 years, $60 million with $15 million up front, and $25 million guaranteed over the first four years, with a no trade clause.

Its a beaut. Danny could learn alot from Shanny and Sundquist.

[elsid13]

Actually, its 5 years, $60 million with $15 million up front, and $25 million guaranteed over the first four years, with a no trade clause.

Its a beaut. Danny could learn alot from Shanny and Sundquist.


Is there some kind of roster bonus too, like 1 million or 1.2 M

[24champ]

Courtney Brown was offered an incentive-laden contract for the vet minimum; I'm not sure what the Broncos offered him, but considering his injury history, I hope it wasn't too much. How is he playing, by the way?

Also, you took my comment out of context; we were talking about the media's disrespect of both teams, the hall of fame in particular. So, try to know what your talking about before you speak on it. That's a general principle that works well for everything.

well it seems like the redskin fans are stuck in the 1980s so i thought I would bring you up to speed on how the team has been doing since then, which is pathetic to say the least. As for Courtney Browns contract he was offered an incentive contract where he has to perform to get a decent paycheck however the Redskins offered more in Guaranteed money, Gibbs wanted Brown pretty bad.

[jrockster77]

Actually, its 5 years, $60 million with $15 million up front, and $25 million guaranteed over the first four years, with a no trade clause.

Its a beaut. Danny could learn alot from Shanny and Sundquist.

::) Alright, I get it...pick on the Redskin fan. I ask a simple question and get ragged on. Its all good! Have your fun! I'm a visitor in hostile territory, after all.

[Tombstone RJ]

Is there some kind of roster bonus too, like 1 million or 1.2 M

He gets a $1m bonus for showing up to all the meetings on time, and an additional $500k for every sack. Plus, he gets $10k every time he takes a dump and flushes the toilet...

[elsid13]

He gets a $1m bonus for showing up to all the meetings on time, and an additional $500k for every sack. Plus, he gets $10k every time he takes a dump and flushes the toilet...

You're forgetting the 50k he just for flushing after Warren make mess in the players' bathroom.

[Cito Pelon]

. . . . . . . .The Broncos have been around since the original AFL started back in 1960. The are the first professional football team to start a black QB. They had one of the all time best defenses in the entire NFL that got them to their first SB in 1977.

They have some history, but only one HOFer.

Because Denver has had good teams. Overachievers. Good coaching staffs. Big-time home crowds. Not just individual players.

Denver has more AFC Championships than any other AFC team. And second only to the Cowboys in Conference Championships. That's big-time [B][/I]team[B][I] play, good staffs, and good crowds.

[orangenblue2]

There once was a team from D.C.,
"Undefeated" their fans screamed to me,
But their opponents all stunk, and their offense is junk,
Broncos win this at home....................................E.Z. :charge:

[Broncoman13]

Keep negative repping me. You are so ****ing immature. Grow up and take your frustrations about your horrible team on somebody that cares. You have to be the lamest queer that exist.


Don't sweat it RB, I've been hooking him up plenty. As long as he's in the black a negative rep might as well be a positive rep!!!

[Broncoman13]

::) Alright, I get it...pick on the Redskin fan. I ask a simple question and get ragged on. Its all good! Have your fun! I'm a visitor in hostile territory, after all.


It's not so much picking on you... bad karma to gloat on my Bronco Adoptee!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I'm holding back, because I don't want to be labeled a troll. But we were having an intelligent football discussion, so please try and post elsewhere.

Next time you mention the word "intelligent" in your post, try to make sure you understand what you're replying to. I did mention ExtremeSkins in my post, must have gone over your head that that's what I was talking about. I've also lurked over there for over a year, so I've read quite a few of the whiny posts over there. The trade I was referring to was the most recent one, and yes, posters there instantly label anyone who disparages the Skins for trading their '06 1st, a Bronco fan. But since you did reference the CB-CP trade, you guys are still obsessed with Bailey and a lot of Skins fans seem to live and die with his play to justify the trade, while except for this week, Bronco fans rarely discuss Portis.

I could go on about the almost daily threads over there about which national reporter hates the Skins and refuses to give them respect.

BTW, don't insult me with a post telling me to have an intelligent football conversaion, when the thread had started to degenerate into a "Who gets less media respect" thread, something you participated in.

[Iowanian]

Keep negative repping me. You are so ****ing immature. Grow up and take your frustrations about your horrible team on somebody that cares. You have to be the lamest queer that exist.

I love how worked up, c@ckholsters like you get about your stupid ass rep.

I think you could totally beat Paris Hilton in the Whooor off.

[OrangeCrush2724]

Like I've said before. Give the Redskins their due. They are 3-0. Its going to be a tough game that goes down till the 4th. I would be very suprised if its a blow out. We just need to come in prepared and not overlook this team.

Lets go in with a "Your never as bad as you just lost and your never as good as you just won" type mentality and kick some a$$. :woowoo:

[BigGamer]

ExtremeSkins.com is a crappy place to go. The people are overemotional blubbery conspiracy theorists, and they make no sense whatsoever. I read something today that was so completely stupid and impossible that I couldn't stand to even look at that forum anymore. I'm not even registered there.

And, I am a Redskins fan.

About our game, I'll admit we have been extremely lucky in our last few games, but we have steadily improved in different areas on different days. Honestly, we just need to put everything together. Now, as you all are so willing to write our defense off as overrated crap, have you watched them play at all? No? If you haven't, you have no idea what sort of D it is. It does not force turnovers, it does not score touchdowns. It's just tough and gritty, designed to stop the run (please, don't start) instead of force eighty fumbles a game, although they are fully capable of killing someone. Now, it's common knowledge that Denver is the best overall running team in the NFL, but you guys can't write other teams off like you are. That leads to complacency, and complacency leads to the Dolphins. So, before you assume this is a win, be careful. This is professional football. Any team can beat any other on any given team, and the gap between Washington and Denver is nowhere near as large as you think.

[Kaylore]

Like I've said before. Give the Redskins their due. They are 3-0. Its going to be a tough game that goes down till the 4th. I would be very suprised if its a blow out. We just need to come in prepared and not overlook this team.

Lets go in with a "Your never as bad as you just lost and your never as good as you just won" type mentality and kick some a$$. :woowoo:
I think so too. Its ok to be confident, but they're still undefeated.

[redskinz#1fan]

The Skins have only one player (John Riggins) in the HoF from the 80's and early 90 teams coached by Gibbs. And we won 3 out of 4 superbowls in a span of 10 years! (one of which I bet you remember! Nnyah!)

Now that is some funny s***! How was this guy bragging about going to 6 Superbowls and only having 2 wins. I'm not very good at math, but I would much prefer to have 3 out of 4 v/s 2 outta 6. hmmmmmmmmmmm! You do the math.

[redskinz#1fan]

I think that this will be a very tough game for both teams for various different reasons. We have a better defense then your team and you have a offense then our team. But all of this is based off of what we last witnessed. One thing for sure is that the redskins have gotten better after each game, always improving on the mistakes of the previous week. This will not be a blowout by any team. This game will come down to the last couple of minutes of the fourth quarter. There are a lot os skins fans on here trying to have a reasonable debate about the 2 teams, so please don't pass judgement based off of extremeskins.com I am a die hard skins fan, and I'm not a member of that group. They rant and rave over there v/s having intelligent conversations like @ Hail Redskins. Good luck to both teams, but I think skins take a tight one on the road to go 4-0!

prediction- skins 14
broncos 10

[Mastermind2002]

We have a better defense then your team and you have a offense then our team.

Better defense? I don't think so, but we'll find out how good the Redskins defense really is come Sunday.

[24champ]

this reminds me of the chiefs vs broncos week about 2 weeks ago when this board was overrun by chief fans and claimed they had the best defense in the league blah blah blah....so brings me to this point, can the redskin fans and chief fans be any more similiar?


1. They both havent been to the playoffs in quite a while
2. they have a recent history of fvcking coaches search (Spurrier, Gunther etc)
3. both teams get hyped up for their off-season acquistions
4. Ownership sucks on both teams
5. Both come in here undefeated after playing not so great teams

Anything else i missed?

[Vegas_Bronco]

Sorry skins fans, your playing in Denver, the win streak ends here!

[MrPeepers]

game over

broncos 21
redskins 10

[baja]

Say good bye Skins fans.

http://www.mulley.net/archives/snake1.jpg

[Atlas]

It will definitely be a tough game, that is for sure. And yes, we've had some bounces go our way the past few weeks; .


HAHAHAH That is the understatement of the century. I would say a total meltdown by the Cowboy's secondary and the chokejob of the Seattle kicker could classify more as miracles than as "bounces" The Skins should be a 1-2 team and are lucky. Luck is coming to an end fellas.

[SpenceSkins]

Name one other team in the NFL that has played in 6 SBs, won two titles and has only one HOF.

I'm betting you can't.

That is called "no respect."This is some sort of joke, right? Out of the Joe Gibbs team that won three Super Bowls, including a ferocious beat-down of John Elway and the Bronconairres, there is only one Hall of Fame player. That's John Riggins. Art Monk, who retired with more catches than any other player in NFL history and the NFL record for most consecutive games with a catch, and three Super Bowl rings, is not in the Hall of Fame. Neither is Russ Grimm, who was named to the All 1980s Team. Gary Clark didn't make it. Joe Jacoby didn't make it. Just one player: John Riggins. That's four NFC Championships and three Super Bowl championships. Now, either the Redskins should have more players in the Hall of Fame or Joe Gibbs was a better coach half asleep than Vince Lombardi was on his best day. And as much as I respect Joe Gibbs, I don't think that's true.

[SpenceSkins]

The Broncos have been around since the original AFL started back in 1960. The are the first professional football team to start a black QB. They had one of the all time best defenses in the entire NFL that got them to their first SB in 1977.

They have some history, but only one HOFer.Some history? The Washington Redskins have been around since 1937. I'm not sure how the age of the franchise is supposed to be relevant to all this, but since you brought it up...

The Redskins were the first team to start a black quarterback in the Super Bowl. You recall that, right?

[SpenceSkins]

And in the Salary cap era, your team took a crap. Snyder hired some great coaches in Spurrier and Turner. Let go a good running back in Stephen Davis, Trotter was let go, Terry Pierce is gone, couldnt sign Courtney Brown because he knows you guys suck. If I was a fan of the redskins I would bring up the 1980s too because the modern day redskins is one sorry club.The name is Antonio Pierce, not Terry Pierce. And the Redskins did well not to give Pierce the money the Giants gave him. Pierce is a nice enough player, but he benefitted greatly from playing behind two defensive tackles who had a great year in 2004. Pierce's replacement, Lemar Marshall, has stepped in without missing a beat. Marshall is a pretty ordinary player, but that's all he needs to be, playing behind those tackles.

As for missing out on the Courtney Brown "lottery," I'm going to presume you meant that as a compliment for the Redskins. I've got about as many sacks as Courtney Brown does and I've never even played in the NFL.

[RaiderH8r]

Assclowns? Come on, man...you don't benefit yourself by insulting others.

I love it when everyone says the Dallas game was so "lucky". Its not like the bombs were hail marys or something like that; those are lucky passes. They were two designed plays to Moss; the first one Moss made a spectacular adjusment to the ball in mid-air and caught it in traffic. The second one was a perfect throw from Brunell and hit Moss in-stride and he walked into the endzone. How are those luck?

Against Seattle -- kickers miss field goals; that's just the NFL. If you're going to call that win luck, then you're calling about 30-40% of all NFL wins lucky. Okay, I pulled that number out of my ass, but if you were to go back and analyze every victory in the past 5 years or so, and see how many teams lost by 3 points or less AND missed at least one field goal in the game, there would be quite a large number of them, I'm sure. Not every team has a reliable kicker like Elam or Vinatieri.
That was as close to a hail mary as Brunnell can get anymore. His cannon is out of powder and he runs with concrete shoes. Seeing him scamper against the Seahags just pointed out the glaring deficiencies in their defense and just how over rated they are as a unit. It was like watching a one legged midget outrun a sprinter. You know it can't be happening, there's no way it should be happening. But I'll be damned if that isn't exactly what happened. It was painful. Not Marino-scramble painful, but pretty bad.

[RaiderH8r]

Some history? The Washington Redskins have been around since 1937. I'm not sure how the age of the franchise is supposed to be relevant to all this, but since you brought it up...

The Redskins were the first team to start a black quarterback in the Super Bowl. You recall that, right?
The Broncos were the first team to start a black quarterback. But what that has to do with the price of tea in China I have no idea.

[SpenceSkins]

I just saw an interview with Spurrier where he said he quit because he did not have control over the player personell moves. In other words, he stated the exact opposite of what you just said.Then explain how the team became littered with all those UF castoffs and let Stephen Davis go? It was Spurrier who tried to bench Davis back in 2002. Spurrier quit before he was fired.

[SpenceSkins]

The Broncos were the first team to start a black quarterback. But what that has to do with the price of tea in China I have no idea.Good point. I didn't bring that whole black quarterback thing up. If you actually read the posts, you'd know that.

[RaiderH8r]

Good point. I didn't bring that whole black quarterback thing up. If you actually read the posts, you'd know that.
No biggie. Which is why I put in the part about tea in China.

Spurrier letting Davis go was a huge mistake. Keep Steven Davis and you could have conceivably kept Champ. Or at least you would have had a running game. Davis has been a good back for the Panthers. Spurrier was/is an idiot. He's a lothesome little man.

[SkinRamon]

b/c your defense is very good and will keep you in every game this year
Good answer, and that's exactly what I expect to see on Sunday, a knock-down drag out defensive struggle.

Predictions of a blowout are simply unfounded. Two tough defenses are gonna go at it and points will be hard to come by. Our secondary matches up very well against your WR's, and our front 7 matches up well with your vaunted o-line. Our defense can hang with anybody.

But on our side, we have a veteran QB who won't turn the ball over and very sure-handed receivers in Moss and David Patten, as well as a determined RB in Portis playing behind a steadily improving o-line. Your defense is fast and athletic, and I don't expect points to come easy by any stretch. I expect a tight game that won't be decided till the 4th quarter.

[dj_stouty]

Best part of today was the folks calling into 980 asking what they could get for Lavar in trade. God, I love the DC area

Yes...but that is no different than the plethora of "Get rid of Plummer" threads I have read on this board over the past year.

Some fanbases may be lounder than others...and other fanbases may be more loyal than others...but in the end, ALL fanbases have their share of fans who overreact.

[DC Dreaming]

HAHAHAH That is the understatement of the century. I would say a total meltdown by the Cowboy's secondary and the chokejob of the Seattle kicker could classify more as miracles than as "bounces" The Skins should be a 1-2 team and are lucky. Luck is coming to an end fellas.


Don't forget the "questionable" pass interference call that set up our second TD. The point is this - last year those types of plays went against us almost exclusively. So yeah, lucky breaks you're right But that's part of the game and I'm not going to denounce them to detract from the win. Seattle had their chances too. They blocked a FG and started at the 50....got 3 instead of 7. Picked us off deep in our territory, couldn't hit the FG. I hope you're wrong about the line I bolded, and I don't deny we'll need some. But if we get it and win, don't use it as an excuse for losing. Because you'd have taken some luck for the win too.

As far as HOF, I agree, you guys have been hosed. I remember hating Mecklenburg (sp?) as a kid....guy was good. Anyways....But we have a couple of guys we'd like to see in there too. If we didn't we wouldn't be fans would we?

[dj_stouty]

Spurrier letting Davis go was a huge mistake. Keep Steven Davis and you could have conceivably kept Champ.

You shouldn't comment on things you don't know about.

Davis was going to cost the club a whopping 10- 12+ million dollars that year in cap hit. He either wanted to get that money, or try to get it elsewhere. The Skins had no choice but to let him go. HOW, exactly, would paying a injury prone RB 11 million dollars for one season make Champ Bailey stay as a Redskin?

[Mile High Shack]

You shouldn't comment on things you don't know about.

Davis was going to cost the club a whopping 10- 12+ million dollars that year in cap hit. He either wanted to get that money, or try to get it elsewhere. The Skins had no choice but to let him go. HOW, exactly, would paying a injury prone RB 11 million dollars for one season make Champ Bailey stay as a Redskin?

have a better GM that would convince him to take less money or convert that money to a signing bonus

[dj_stouty]

have a better GM that would convince him to take less money or convert that money to a signing bonus

Who would have thought it was just that easy... :laugh:

And I'm certain the Denver Broncos never let talented players go, right?

[Mile High Shack]

Who would have thought it was just that easy... :laugh:

And I'm certain the Denver Broncos never let talented players go, right?

yeah we let Portis go

oh wait

we got a better player in return AND a draft pick :)

[RaiderH8r]

You shouldn't comment on things you don't know about.

Davis was going to cost the club a whopping 10- 12+ million dollars that year in cap hit. He either wanted to get that money, or try to get it elsewhere. The Skins had no choice but to let him go. HOW, exactly, would paying a injury prone RB 11 million dollars for one season make Champ Bailey stay as a Redskin?
I know the Skins were desperate for a power running back that could bang it up the middle and Davis was a perfect fit. The Spurrier years were wasted. I don't know how he isn't hung in effigy in one of the many town squares in DC every week. Spurrier definitely did not make it any easier for a GM to talk to Davis about restructuring when he made up his mind that he was going to run an air it out at all costs offense that put a valuable RB on the bench. He was unyielding in his mantra and it cost you guys not only a RB but plenty of games as well.

[dj_stouty]

I know the Skins were desperate for a power running back that could bang it up the middle and Davis was a perfect fit. The Spurrier years were wasted. I don't know how he isn't hung in effigy in one of the many town squares in DC every week. Spurrier definitely did not make it any easier for a GM to talk to Davis about restructuring when he made up his mind that he was going to run an air it out at all costs offense that put a valuable RB on the bench. He was unyielding in his mantra and it cost you guys not only a RB but plenty of games as well.

I'm not going to argue that Spurrier's 2 years here were a waste. They certainly were. However, if it weren't for Spurrier screwing things up, Gibbs may not be the HC right now. I'll take the good with the bad...

I'm not worried about Stephen Davis. I'm happier with Clinton Portis. He will have a chip on his shoulder when he returns to Mile High II. Should be interesting to see how he fares against your run D. Apparently the "Championship Belt" is retired...but I'm sure he would pull it out of retirement if he were to have a big day in Denver.

[RaiderH8r]

I'm not going to argue that Spurrier's 2 years here were a waste. They certainly were. However, if it weren't for Spurrier screwing things up, Gibbs may not be the HC right now. I'll take the good with the bad...

I'm not worried about Stephen Davis. I'm happier with Clinton Portis. He will have a chip on his shoulder when he returns to Mile High II. Should be interesting to see how he fares against your run D. Apparently the "Championship Belt" is retired...but I'm sure he would pull it out of retirement if he were to have a big day in Denver.
The D has put a hurting on a couple of premier backs already. Watching LT absolutely embarass both the Giants (meh, not surprising) and the Patriots (much more impressive) gives a better appreciation for what Denver did in the second half against the Chargers. Then absolutely shutting down the KC Diaper connection was impressive and holding Fred Taylor to 12 yards rushing can't be overlooked. The D is playing with purpose and it is impressive to watch. They also hounded Green and Leftwich all day long. Brunnell better oil up those knees, he may need to scamper a bit.

[dj_stouty]

yeah we let Portis go

oh wait

we got a better player in return AND a draft pick :)

Yeah...and the Redskins basically got Portis for the draft pick. Bailey was not going to come back to the team no matter how much $ they offered him. At least we got something out of him.

Its not every day you get one of only 3 RBs in NFL history to have back to back 1,500 yard seasons in their first two seasons. Portis' 1,315 yards may have been 185 short of the 1,500 plateau he established in Denver...but I believe 1,315 is 2nd best of any RB in Redskins' history. I'll take that...

I still contend that Denver would have been a better team last year with Portis in the backfield than the Bell, Droughns, Griffin and Hearst combination.

[bendog]

Yeah...and the Redskins basically got Portis for the draft pick. Bailey was not going to come back to the team no matter how much $ they offered him. At least we got something out of him.

Its not every day you get one of only 3 RBs in NFL history to have back to back 1,500 yard seasons in their first two seasons. Portis' 1,315 yards may have been 185 short of the 1,500 plateau he established in Denver...but I believe 1,315 is 2nd best of any RB in Redskins' history. I'll take that...

I still contend that Denver would have been a better team last year with Portis in the backfield than the Bell, Droughns, Griffin and Hearst combination.
Agreed. But last year was a transition year for shanny. He finally had his chance at a corner, having drafted two busts in the first round. Sonic was the only rb shanny let make more than one cut. Losing MA and Bell to injury in preseason hurt.

[Mile High Shack]

Yeah...and the Redskins basically got Portis for the draft pick. Bailey was not going to come back to the team no matter how much $ they offered him. At least we got something out of him.

Its not every day you get one of only 3 RBs in NFL history to have back to back 1,500 yard seasons in their first two seasons. Portis' 1,315 yards may have been 185 short of the 1,500 plateau he established in Denver...but I believe 1,315 is 2nd best of any RB in Redskins' history. I'll take that...

I still contend that Denver would have been a better team last year with Portis in the backfield than the Bell, Droughns, Griffin and Hearst combination.
Was Portis going to play dline for us?

[dj_stouty]

The D has put a hurting on a couple of premier backs already.

So has ours...

We haven't allowed a RB to gain 100 yards or more since we played Pittsburgh 9 regular season games ago. (And that was when Bettis had exactly 100 yards on 31 carries)

Just as impressive is the fact that you guys haven't allowed a RB to gain 100 yards or more you played KC 8 regular season games ago.

Goes to show that this game should be closer than most expect...when both teams have great run defenses.

I wonder if Portis will have any advantage, since he knows a little bit about this defense...

[dj_stouty]

Was Portis going to play dline for us?

No...because he never played for the Browns. (Sorry...I couldnt' resist)

[Mile High Shack]

So has ours...

We haven't allowed a RB to gain 100 yards or more since we played Pittsburgh 9 regular season games ago. (And that was when Bettis had exactly 100 yards on 31 carries)

Just as impressive is the fact that you guys haven't allowed a RB to gain 100 yards or more you played KC 8 regular season games ago.

Goes to show that this game should be closer than most expect...when both teams have great run defenses.

I wonder if Portis will have any advantage, since he knows a little bit about this defense...

well Alexander did have 98 yards

so yeah he didn't have 100

but c'mon......

[dj_stouty]

well Alexander did have 98 yards

so yeah he didn't have 100

but c'mon......

Picky...Picky...

Keep disrespecting the Redskins' defense. You will be surprised come Sunday.

[yavoon]

wow this is much bigger than chiefs week

[dj_stouty]

wow this is much bigger than chiefs week

Every year the Redskins pick up a new rivalry...usually based on a trade.

Skins/Denver was created after the Bailey/Pick for Portis trade.

Skins/Jets was created over the Coles acquisition 3 seasons ago...and then reinstated after the Coles/Moss trade this season.

[RaiderH8r]

wow this is much bigger than chiefs week
Well, we have their 1st rounder and the fvckers keep winning. That has to stop.

[RaiderH8r]

So has ours...

We haven't allowed a RB to gain 100 yards or more since we played Pittsburgh 9 regular season games ago. (And that was when Bettis had exactly 100 yards on 31 carries)

Just as impressive is the fact that you guys haven't allowed a RB to gain 100 yards or more you played KC 8 regular season games ago.

Goes to show that this game should be closer than most expect...when both teams have great run defenses.

I wonder if Portis will have any advantage, since he knows a little bit about this defense...
Alexander is the only one of note that you've played so far this year. Keeping him below 100 (although it was 98, but 98 is not 100) is grounds for some confidence. But at the same time Denver's O-Line is a step above most in terms of their blocking schemes and understanding of their purpose on any given play. They play as a unit rather than 5 guys on the line which is what has set them apart from the rest of the league in terms of the success RBs have enjoyed during their time in Denver...IMO.

[Mile High Shack]

Picky...Picky...

Keep disrespecting the Redskins' defense. You will be surprised come Sunday.

no, your defense is good, no doubt about it

I expect the winner of this game to score about 17 points

but Portis had no advantage like you stated early, mostly b/c this defense is not the defense he left in 2003

[Taco John]

Yes...but that is no different than the plethora of "Get rid of Plummer" threads I have read on this board over the past year.

Some fanbases may be lounder than others...and other fanbases may be more loyal than others...but in the end, ALL fanbases have their share of fans who overreact.



Actually, there aren't a whole lot of "Get Rid of Plummer" threads. There are threads critical of Plummer, notably after the big losses (indy and Miami come to mind). But even then I didn't see any "get rid of Plummer" threads.

I think people generally understand that Plummer is our meal ticket this year, like it or not.

[Rock Chalk]

Actually, there aren't a whole lot of "Get Rid of Plummer" threads. There are threads critical of Plummer, notably after the big losses (indy and Miami come to mind). But even then I didn't see any "get rid of Plummer" threads.

I think people generally understand that Plummer is our meal ticket this year, like it or not.
Well we know you dont like it.

Good news is, Washington and Denver look too good to be in the Leinart frenzy next year, thank God.

[Taco John]

Well we know you dont like it.

Good news is, Washington and Denver look too good to be in the Leinart frenzy next year, thank God.



We have two first round draft picks. We can be involved in any frenzy that Shanny wants to be in...

[Broncoman13]

Good answer, and that's exactly what I expect to see on Sunday, a knock-down drag out defensive struggle.

Predictions of a blowout are simply unfounded. Two tough defenses are gonna go at it and points will be hard to come by. Our secondary matches up very well against your WR's, and our front 7 matches up well with your vaunted o-line. Our defense can hang with anybody.

But on our side, we have a veteran QB who won't turn the ball over and very sure-handed receivers in Moss and David Patten, as well as a determined RB in Portis playing behind a steadily improving o-line. Your defense is fast and athletic, and I don't expect points to come easy by any stretch. I expect a tight game that won't be decided till the 4th quarter.

Surely you don't think your defense is better than that of the Jags. They thought they'd hold/contain our running game as well.

Depends what you consider a blowout. The Jags offense IS better than the Skins. Better running game, better RB, better QB, and better WR's. Skins OL gets the advantage as does your TE. The Jags defense IS better than the Skins. Don't believe me? Look at the stats. Previous to our game they were the #2 defense in the NFL. You were not #1.


Finally you're forgetting one important piece of the puzzle. Fatigue. When your boys are gasping for air in the altitude come the 4th quarter we'll be sticking in a fresh Tatum Bell who is a faster, stronger runner than Clinton Portis! Good luck with that. If it's close in the 4th quarter you're playing right into our hands. So keep telling us Bronco fans that it's going to be close up to the 4th quarter...it's music to our ears!

[Tredici]

Picky...Picky...

Keep disrespecting the Redskins' defense. You will be surprised come Sunday.

I think you might observe the same.

[Broncoman13]

well Alexander did have 98 yards

so yeah he didn't have 100

but c'mon......


on 20 carries no less! 4.9 ypr. We're giving RB's 2.8.

As for Portis knowing something about this defense. This isn't the same defense you've seen in the past couple years. Sure they were the #4 D in both of those years.....but this D is different. They'll give up a few more yards...but we'll make up for that in big plays! This defense forces themselves on the opposition. They get after the QB and get after the ball.

OSKIE SCORE!

[bendog]

Surely you don't think your defense is better than that of the Jags. They thought they'd hold/contain our running game as well.

Depends what you consider a blowout. The Jags offense IS better than the Skins. Better running game, better RB, better QB, and better WR's. Skins OL gets the advantage as does your TE. The Jags defense IS better than the Skins. Don't believe me? Look at the stats. Previous to our game they were the #2 defense in the NFL. You were not #1.


Finally you're forgetting one important piece of the puzzle. Fatigue. When your boys are gasping for air in the altitude come the 4th quarter we'll be sticking in a fresh Tatum Bell who is a faster, stronger runner than Clinton Portis! Good luck with that. If it's close in the 4th quarter you're playing right into our hands. So keep telling us Bronco fans that it's going to be close up to the 4th quarter...it's music to our ears!

I think the skins defense is better. Statistically, this year and last they were. However, the jags present a more difficult personnel matchup with their DTs.

I've always wondered about the fatigue thing. Medically, they say that football or some activity where you have "rest" in between moments of exertion isn't really effected by the altitude. Running or biking is different as the increase in red cells will impact upon aeorbic activity. I know when I lived at 7000 feet and then came down to Phoenix or even Den to run, it made a difference.

[baja]

I think the skins defense is better. Statistically, this year and last they were. However, the jags present a more difficult personnel matchup with their DTs.

I've always wondered about the fatigue thing. Medically, they say that football or some activity where you have "rest" in between moments of exertion isn't really effected by the altitude. Running or biking is different as the increase in red cells will impact upon aeorbic activity. I know when I lived at 7000 feet and then came down to Phoenix or even Den to run, it made a difference.

When I lived in Victor Co at 10,000 feet people would puke just drinking beer :)

Where did you live in Co. Dog?

[bendog]

I lived in Evanston and Laramie Wyoming. Before internet porn. It was awful, just awful.

Actually, both were very nice. Evanston in a manly sort of way. Two hookers from Salt Lake would come up once a month. I was in great shape there. Ran and lifted and biked ... heck twice a day, at least.

Laramie did have some females. I think most of them went to school in Colo as soon as they graduated HS, though. I prolly worked out only 10 times a week there.
Laramie is a cool place.

ps, what is in victor Co?

[SpenceSkins]

on 20 carries no less! 4.9 ypr. We're giving RB's 2.8.
OSKIE SCORE!Alexander got more than 1/3 of his yards on one play, when the Redskins defense was playing back to stop the pass late in the game. For the year, the Broncos are giving up 3.5 yards per carry. The Redskins are giving up 3.6 yards per carry. Seems pretty similar to me. Overall, the Broncos are the 6th-ranked defense in the NFL. The Redskins are the fifth-ranked defense in the NFL.

Yes, yes, I know: The Broncos defense has faced the four greatest offenses since the invention of football [Gus Frerotte has been named NFL MVP a record 14 times!] and the Redskins have faced three offenses that couldn't avoid a shutout in Pop Warner ball. I just thought that as long as we are quoting numbers, we probably should quote them correctly.

[dj_stouty]

I think you might observe the same.

Actually...I won't be surprised...because I can actually admit you guys have a great defense.

BTW - Does anyone know if Champ is officially playing this weekend?

[bendog]

Alexander got more than 1/3 of his yards on one play, when the Redskins defense was playing back to stop the pass late in the game. For the year, the Broncos are giving up 3.5 yards per carry. The Redskins are giving up 3.6 yards per carry. Seems pretty similar to me. Overall, the Broncos are the 6th-ranked defense in the NFL. The Redskins are the fifth-ranked defense in the NFL.

Yes, yes, I know: The Broncos defense has faced the four greatest offenses since the invention of football [Gus Frerotte has been named NFL MVP a record 14 times!] and the Redskins have faced three offenses that couldn't avoid a shutout in Pop Warner ball. I just thought that as long as we are quoting numbers, we probably should quote them correctly.
I think your defense is sound based on last year, but please, two fluke plays, a missed fg and chi ..... You beat your chest like richard simmons on gilhad.

[Mile High Shack]

Actually...I won't be surprised...because I can actually admit you guys have a great defense.

BTW - Does anyone know if Champ is officially playing this weekend?

personally I doubt he does

But knowing Champ it wouldn't surprise me to see him give it a try, probably a game time decision

[SpenceSkins]

I think your defense is sound based on last year, but please, two fluke plays, a missed fg and chi ..... You beat your chest like richard simmons on gilhad.I don't know what a gilhad is so I can't address that point. Moreover, I don't know what you're going on about with "you beat your chest." Very odd and silly comment. I haven't asserted that the Redskins have an immovable defense. I haven't asserted that the Redskins will shut down or shut out the Broncos. I haven't even asserted that the Redskins defense will hold the Broncos to less than 90 points -- which I understand is the over/under among all of you at this board. All I did was recite the official NFL numbers on defense. That's it. That's all.

Now, if you regard citing the official numbers from the NFL as "beating your chest," then you are the victim of a mental illness. It's really that simple and it is not debatable. If you think the mere recitation of incontrovertible statistics is boasting, then you are mentally ill.

[Ratboy]

By the sound of it the Redskins have this game locked up. Denver should just move on to New England, We have no chance in hell against Washington who BARELY beat lowly teams such as the Bears, Cowboys, and Seahawks.

Your defense has been unimpressive to say the least, hardly ANY turnovers. I'm not impressed by washington. They are a bad 3-0 team.


\\\\

[SpenceSkins]

But knowing Champ it wouldn't surprise me to see him give it a try, probably a game time decisionChamp will play if it is at all possible. One of my favorite things about Champ when he was a Redskin was that he never missed a game, even though he played a very tough and physical game and never avoided run support. He's a gamer. If it is at all possible for him to play, Champ will play.

[bendog]

Yeah, it's a give Elam will miss a 47yder at the clock and/or the defense will give up 14pts in the last 5 mins.

[SpenceSkins]

By the sound of it the Redskins have this game locked up. Denver should just move on to New England, We have no chance in hell against Washington who BARELY beat lowly teams such as the Bears, Cowboys, and Seahawks.Funny you should write that. I don't see too many Redskins fans here asserting anything like that. Plenty of Broncos fans claiming the game is over before it began, but not too many Redskins fans doing that.

Your defense has been unimpressive to say the least, hardly ANY turnovers. I'm not impressed by washington. They are a bad 3-0 team.Yeah, that's what everyone tells us. The obvious and rock-solid reply is always the same: I'd rather be a bad 3-0 team than a good 3-1 team.

[Tredici]

I don't know what a gilhad is so I can't address that point. Moreover, I don't know what you're going on about with "you beat your chest." Very odd and silly comment. I haven't asserted that the Redskins have an immovable defense. I haven't asserted that the Redskins will shut down or shut out the Broncos. I haven't even asserted that the Redskins defense will hold the Broncos to less than 90 points -- which I understand is the over/under among all of you at this board. All I did was recite the official NFL numbers on defense. That's it. That's all.

Now, if you regard citing the official numbers from the NFL as "beating your chest," then you are the victim of a mental illness. It's really that simple and it is not debatable. If you think the mere recitation of incontrovertible statistics is boasting, then you are mentally ill.


I was with you up until that incontrovertible statistics oxymoron....

[SpenceSkins]

I was with you up until that incontrovertible statistics oxymoron....The statistics are incontrovertible. They may be subject to misunderstanding, as all matters of human endeavor are, but they are still incontrovertible. But that's not relevant anyway. As one can plainly see, I made no effort to deduce any grand theories about defense from the statistics, I merely recited them to correct a false posting by a member of this board.

Now, if that is regarded as impermissible or "beating your chest," well...I suppose that says more about this board than it does about me, no?

[Tredici]

Actually...I won't be surprised...because I can actually admit you guys have a great defense.

BTW - Does anyone know if Champ is officially playing this weekend?

I'm not, and haven't knocked the Skins defense. Home field is going to be a solid advantage. Well, it should be. Denver usually manages to lose one inexplicable game at home each year, though.

Champ is still day to day. No announcement made yet. They did say his most recent MRI showed less damage to the hammy then he had during pre-season. I didn't know you could tell that sort of thing with a muscle strain but what the heck. The guy played with a separated shoulder a couple weeks ago so he's tough. You know this is a game he will want to play in.

[baja]

Looks like the Skins get great fan support this is the best rival fan turnout on this board this season. Kudos to you Washington fans, now come back again on Monday after you are spanked by the Broncos.... 24 - 13.

[Ratboy]

Funny you should write that. I don't see too many Redskins fans here asserting anything like that. Plenty of Broncos fans claiming the game is over before it began, but not too many Redskins fans doing that.

Yeah, that's what everyone tells us. The obvious and rock-solid reply is always the same: I'd rather be a bad 3-0 team than a good 3-1 team.

Ofcoarse it's not happening here as much as the skins board. I know you can read so why not go back over there and read some of their posts, or do you want to keep ignoring it?

[Hotrod]

Yeah, that's what everyone tells us. The obvious and rock-solid reply is always the same: I'd rather be a bad 3-0 team than a good 3-1 team.

Would you really rather be a bad 3-0 team then a good 3-1 team. Wow if so you must have a mental illness. Enjoy your bad 3-0 team while it lasts while we will enjoy a good 3-1 team with a chance to do something this season.

[Tredici]

The statistics are incontrovertible. They may be subject to misunderstanding, as all matters of human endeavor are, but they are still incontrovertible. But that's not relevant anyway. As one can plainly see, I made no effort to deduce any grand theories about defense from the statistics, I merely recited them to correct a false posting by a member of this board.

Now, if that is regarded as impermissible or "beating your chest," well...I suppose that says more about this board than it does about me, no?


Stats are stats. Right now the Skins with only three games played aren't statistically equal to the teams reporting four games. Stats are stats, they aren't subject to misunderstanding, they are subject to intrepretation.

One poster made a comment. So you might say it has something to do with Bendog but instead you generalize the whole board.

I love people who take the high road.

[bendog]

Yes, yes, I know: The Broncos defense has faced the four greatest offenses since the invention of football [Gus Frerotte has been named NFL MVP a record 14 times!] and the Redskins have faced three offenses that couldn't avoid a shutout in Pop Warner ball. I just thought that as long as we are quoting numbers, we probably should quote them correctly.

That's beating your chest, Spence, and Freerot would start for the foreskins.

[SpenceSkins]

Ofcoarse it's not happening here as much as the skins board. I know you can read so why not go back over there and read some of their posts, or do you want to keep ignoring it?I am a co-owner of hailRedskins.com, the only Redskins fan website I frequent. You are referring to comments made by fans at another, lesser Redskins fan website. I will indeed continue to ignore them as I make it a habit to ignore that website as often as possible. If you choose to regard comments made at that other website as important and worthy of attention, that does not speak well for you. If you are so inclined, try www.hailredskins.com for a more interesting and fair-minded experience. One of the threads up on the main board right now is called "What Worries You About the Broncos?" or something like that. It's a very different environment from what you experienced at that other, lesser fan website. Of course, if you charge into hailRedskins declaring the superiority of you and your Broncos in a rude and impolite manner, you will be met with considerable vigor. Behave well and post your opinions firmly and politely and you will be treated well.

It's a matter of environment. If you choose to lie down with fleas, you get fleas. Do better. hailRedskins.com is better.

[Ratboy]

"We beat Chicago (1-2), Dallas (2-2), and Seattle (2-2).. We're going undefeated!! Superbowl here we come."

[SpenceSkins]

Would you really rather be a bad 3-0 team then a good 3-1 team. Wow if so you must have a mental illness.It's a mental illness I share with every coach who has ever worked in the National Football League, including Mike Shanahan.

[SpenceSkins]

"We beat Chicago (1-2), Dallas (2-2), and Seattle (2-2).. We're going undefeated!! Superbowl here we come."Cite evidence of a Redskins fan at hailRedskins.com or here writing that. If you cannot, please apologize for the irrelevancy and for wasting time. Thanks.

[Hotrod]

It's a mental illness I share with every coach who has ever worked in the National Football League, including Mike Shanahan.

So your admitedly a bad 3-0 team ??? Now were starting to get somewhere. :thumbsup:

My passive agressive friend ;)

[SpenceSkins]

Stats are stats. Right now the Skins with only three games played aren't statistically equal to the teams reporting four games. Stats are stats, they aren't subject to misunderstanding, they are subject to intrepretation.They are not subject to misunderstanding, they are subject to interpretation? That, my friend, is what we call a distinction without a difference. Of course, if it pleases you to parse words so, be my guest. There are one or two others here who might prefer plain English. I'll converse with them, thanks.

One poster made a comment. So you might say it has something to do with Bendog but instead you generalize the whole board.No, actually it has been pretty typical of comments from Broncos fans in this thread. Even a cursory examination of the thread will confirm this.

I love people who take the high road.Me, too. That's why I always do it.

[Ray Finkle]

I am a co-owner of hailRedskins.com, the only Redskins fan website I frequent. You are referring to comments made by fans at another, lesser Redskins fan website. I will indeed continue to ignore them as I make it a habit to ignore that website as often as possible. If you choose to regard comments made at that other website as important and worthy of attention, that does not speak well for you. If you are so inclined, try www.hailredskins.com for a more interesting and fair-minded experience. One of the threads up on the main board right now is called "What Worries You About the Broncos?" or something like that. It's a very different environment from what you experienced at that other, lesser fan website. Of course, if you charge into hailRedskins declaring the superiority of you and your Broncos in a rude and impolite manner, you will be met with considerable vigor. Behave well and post your opinions firmly and politely and you will be treated well.

It's a matter of environment. If you choose to lie down with fleas, you get fleas. Do better. hailRedskins.com is better.


congrats on the website...very well done....my wife checks it (she's a damn skins fan).

[SpenceSkins]

So your admitedly a bad 3-0 team ??? Now were starting to get somewhere. :thumbsup:

My passive agressive friend ;)I don't care what people call us. People who spend their time worrying about that are insecure. All I care about is the final score. That's it. I leave the rest of that dreck to you and yours. Enjoy it.

[SpenceSkins]

congrats on the website...very well done....my wife checks it (she's a damn skins fan).Thank you. I hope your wife sticks around and contributes. As anyone who runs one of these fan websites knows, attracting female members isn't easy. We've got a very family-friendly environment.

[baja]

It's a mental illness I share with every coach who has ever worked in the National Football League, including Mike Shanahan.

Anyone would take 3 - 0 over 3 - 1 difference is you said a BAD 3 and 0 team over a GOOD 3 and 1 team, that changes things, no NFL coach go for that so the insanity is all yours.

[bendog]

Again, what I said vis a vis statistics, other than you'r ebecoming an annoying geek, is that a 3 week sample in a 4 weeks into a 16 game season is MEANINGLESS. And, considering the NFC and the NFC East in particular, are realitively WEAK compared to the AFC and the AFC West LAST YEAR and even this year, your analysis is BULL****. However, out of politeness, I didn't mention this latter thought until you brought up my name in your post to Tred.

Now have a nice day. :bash:

[SpenceSkins]

That's beating your chest, Spence, and Freerot would start for the foreskins.Pretty difficult to avoid the conclusion that you regard any opinion you don't agree with as "beating your chest." Clearly, you've got a "beating" obsession. I won't investigate that further, for all our sakes. In any case, since you've pretty much acknowledged you have nothing of interest to add to this discussion, I'll move on to others. Hopefully, they'll show up.

[Hotrod]

I don't care what people call us. People who spend their time worrying about that are insecure. All I care about is the final score. That's it. I leave the rest of that dreck to you and yours. Enjoy it.

LOL Im sure you dont care thats why your over here defending the skins from the people who were bashing them. Ha! Thats when you first showed up correct.

Wow tough market in your part of the country for out of work shrinks huh???

[Ray Finkle]

Thank you. I hope your wife sticks around and contributes. As anyone who runs one of these fan websites knows, attracting female members isn't easy. We've got a very family-friendly environment.


she checks it out but will not post....that makes you "nerdy" or so she tells me when I am on the Mane...

[bendog]

Pretty difficult to avoid the conclusion that you regard any opinion you don't agree with as "beating your chest." Clearly, you've got a "beating" obsession. I won't investigate that further, for all our sakes. In any case, since you've pretty much acknowledged you have nothing of interest to add to this discussion, I'll move on to others. Hopefully, they'll show up.
I just gave back to you what YOU STARTED. Now go play with your sliderule or whatever.

[baja]

I don't care what people call us. People who spend their time worrying about that are insecure. All I care about is the final score. That's it. I leave the rest of that dreck to you and yours. Enjoy it.

if all you care about is the final score why spend hours on a message board just read the paper on Monday morning.

"All I care about is the score", what a load of crap.

I will bet this is a big part of your life all year long, no?

[Tredici]

They are not subject to misunderstanding, they are subject to interpretation? That, my friend, is what we call a distinction without a difference. Of course, if it pleases you to parse words so, be my guest. There are one or two others here who might prefer plain English. I'll converse with them, thanks.

No, actually it has been pretty typical of comments from Broncos fans in this thread. Even a cursory examination of the thread will confirm this.

Me, too. That's why I always do it.

There is a difference between misunderstanding and interpretation. It has complete distinction. If you are going to compare three game stats to four game stats without offering an interpretation of the conclusions, then you probably misunderstand how stats work.

Pretty typical is also an incorrect phrase when referring to a specific comment. But then you must find many posters accusing you of beating your chest. A cursory examination did not prove that out for me.

High roads are an illusion. I find them most apparent by opposing fans.

[SpenceSkins]

she checks it out but will not post....that makes you "nerdy" or so she tells me when I am on the Mane...LOL An understandable prejudice and one it took me a while to overcome. Since most web board activity seems to be motivated by anger and outrage, hopefully one of us at hR will post something really obnoxious and she'll start posting just to set us straight. Whatever it takes.

[SpenceSkins]

if all you care about is the final score why spend hours on a message board just read the paper on Monday morning.

"All I care about is the score", what a load of crap.

I will bet this is a big part of your life all year long, no?You're correct, my statement was too broad. What I mean to impart was that I don't care whether fans or media regard the Redskins or Broncos or any other team as good or bad. If you got some perk out of positive media attention, like, say, home field advantage in the playoffs, it would be worthy of study. However, you don't get any advantage from media hype or media contempt. I care greatly about all the things that go into winning and losing a football game and why and how teams are good and bad over the course of a season. I just don't care what Peter King thinks. For better or worse, I trust my own judgment.

That's what I meant.

[bendog]

the resposne to a PM I sent this guy, spenceskins, when I tried to take him civilly and seriously

No, it doesn't have anything to do with getting off on a bad foot. Our personalities and posting styles are just very different. We wouldn't get along even if we were both fans of the same team. You like to use a lot of insults when arguing. I don't and generally have a low regard for people who do. That's where our problem started and it is unlikely to improve greatly. In any case, good luck to you and your Broncos for the rest of the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendog
I think I got off on a bad foot (-: with you. Not all my fault in that you came onto the board and chose to post on a thread devoted to stupid things said by skins fans on extreme skins, and then complained about smack. IMo, you would've been better understood posting on the thread devoted to skins week. As to extreme skins, Bang is a regular drop in, and he links to extremeskins where his cartoons are, so that site is well known.

I'll try to read through the smack

[Hotrod]

the resposne to a PM I sent this guy, when I tried to take him civilly and seriously

No, it doesn't have anything to do with getting off on a bad foot. Our personalities and posting styles are just very different. We wouldn't get along even if we were both fans of the same team. You like to use a lot of insults when arguing. I don't and generally have a low regard for people who do. That's where our problem started and it is unlikely to improve greatly. In any case, good luck to you and your Broncos for the rest of the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bendog
I think I got off on a bad foot (-: with you. Not all my fault in that you came onto the board and chose to post on a thread devoted to stupid things said by skins fans on extreme skins, and then complained about smack. IMo, you would've been better understood posting on the thread devoted to skins week. As to extreme skins, Bang is a regular drop in, and he links to extremeskins where his cartoons are, so that site is well known.

I'll try to read through the smack

LOL I tried to warn you all that is the single most passive aggressive poster I've ever seen. Iowain did a fair job with this style of posting for awhile then he forgot the passive part and just kind of self imploded.

[bendog]

LOL I tried to warn you all that is the single most passive aggressive poster I've ever seen. Iowain did a fair job with this style of posting for awhile then he forgot the passive part and just kind of self imploded.
I have to admit that once I shook my head, I had to laugh. If he was a girl, she'd do well to avoid HouseArrest and LJ. lol

[RaiderH8r]

LOL I tried to warn you all that is the single most passive aggressive poster I've ever seen. Iowain did a fair job with this style of posting for awhile then he forgot the passive part and just kind of self imploded.
It's all quite amusing.

[Hotrod]

It's all quite amusing.

LOL thats classic

[SpenceSkins]

Ah, posting the contents of a private message. Regarded as dirty pool at any civilized website and by any civilized people. I guess there are different -- and that is to say, lesser -- standards for acceptable behavior here.

It is worth noting, of course, that my reply came after this Bendog creature had insulted me any number of times. I have noticed that stating plain facts arouses considerable anger among some members of this website. This would be just another example of it, I suppose. In any case, it would appear my private message hit a bit too close to home. Alas, that is the risk you take if you regularly fill your posts with insults.

[Rock Chalk]

Ah, posting the contents of a private message. Regarded as dirty pool at any civilized website and by any civilized people. I guess there are different -- and that is to say, lesser -- standards for acceptable behavior here.

It is worth noting, of course, that my reply came after this Bendog creature had insulted me any number of times. I have noticed that stating plain facts arouses considerable anger among some members of this website. This would be just another example of it, I suppose. In any case, it would appear my private message hit a bit too close to home. Alas, that is the risk you take if you regularly fill your posts with insults.
You can always show yourself out.

[Hotrod]

Ah, posting the contents of a private message. Regarded as dirty pool at any civilized website and by any civilized people. I guess there are different -- and that is to say, lesser -- standards for acceptable behavior here.

It is worth noting, of course, that my reply came after this Bendog creature had insulted me any number of times. I have noticed that stating plain facts arouses considerable anger among some members of this website. This would be just another example of it, I suppose. In any case, it would appear my private message hit a bit too close to home. Alas, that is the risk you take if you regularly fill your posts with insults.

You forgot to sign your pitty party memo "your passive aggressive buddy"

[Broncoman13]

Laramie is a cool place.

ps, what is in victor Co?

Zeke's... best Chili in Colorado! I lived and still have property in Cripple Creek. We used to make the trip into "town" a couple times a week!