Randall Cunningham debate

[Jason in LA]

I've been having a debate with a guy on a Madden message board. For some odd reason, he swears Randall Cunningham will make the Hall of Fame. I think it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. He then goes on to say Steve Tasker will make it in too. Yeah, the guy is nuts. Most people in the thread say neither will get in. But this guy doesn't get it. So I'm making sure I'm not the one who's nuts. Here is a link. Let me know what you guys think. I'll give him this link so he can see everybody's response.

http://www.maddenworldsyndicate.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11718

[ludo21]

No way.

[24champ]

He played at UNLV, being a UNLV homer ill say yea he should.

[Rausch]

No, he won't.

I think Randal was a lot like Gannon, guys who didn't become complete QB's until late in their careers.

He was amazing for the Vikes. And even though he was a ball hog I really loved to watch the guy...

[DomCasual]

I've been having a debate with a guy on a Madden message board. For some odd reason, he swears Randall Cunningham will make the Hall of Fame. I think it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. He then goes on to say Steve Tasker will make it in too. Yeah, the guy is nuts. Most people in the thread say neither will get in. But this guy doesn't get it. So I'm making sure I'm not the one who's nuts. Here is a link. Let me know what you guys think. I'll give him this link so he can see everybody's response.

http://www.maddenworldsyndicate.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11718

Your friend is smoking crack.

[Jason in LA]

Your friend is smoking crack.

He's not my friend. The guy is a total loon.

[BroncoBuff]

I've been having a debate with a guy on a Madden message board. For some odd reason, he swears Randall Cunningham will make the Hall of Fame. I think it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. He then goes on to say Steve Tasker will make it in too. Yeah, the guy is nuts. Most people in the thread say neither will get in. But this guy doesn't get it. So I'm making sure I'm not the one who's nuts. Here is a link. Let me know what you guys think. I'll give him this link so he can see everybody's response.

http://www.maddenworldsyndicate.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11718

Along with Jeff George, Randall put more 'zip' on a pass than anybody I ever saw . . . but he is not HOF material. Warren Moon is not even in yet, and Moon's career was MUCH more productive in every category except rushing yards.

Maybe if Randall's Vikes hadn't CHOKED against Atlanta in the 98-99 NFC Championship game - he might've taken a team to a Super Bowl, but even then . . . no, not imo.

[-Slap-]

Buddy was some kind of kooky SOB, though.

1985 was Cunningham's rookie season. Ron Jaworski was a fading veteran. For the last six games that season, Buddy had Cunningham only come in on third and long. The idea being that he would be able to use his mobility and arm strength to beat all out pass rushes. Cunningham was predictably ineffective receiving such a difficult baptism and Jaws despised the arrangement. It continued into the beginning of 1986, with the two splitting snaps until Cunningham took over the job. You have to wonder if Randall wouldn't have fared much better if he hadn't cut his teeth facing balls out blitzes on every snap.

[Atlas]

THat is redicules. Cunningham wasn't even as good as Jaworski. Cunningham would fold his tents everytime the going got tough. Too me it always looked like he didn't even like playing football.

[-Slap-]

THat is redicules. Cunningham wasn't even as good as Jaworski. Cunningham would fold his tents everytime the going got tough. Too me it always looked like he didn't even like playing football.
He certainly wasn't in Jaws' league as a raw rookie, that's for sure. Jaws felt sort of emasculated by the whole arrangement, but Buddy always made a point of heaping ridicule on offenses, even his own.

Ryan's fatal flaw as a head coach was his disdain for offense. He treated the defense like royalty, though, and Reggie White and the late Jerome Brown took full advantage. Ryan did treat Cunningham as something of a fair-haired child, though. The only player on offense accorded any respect, except perhaps, Keith Byars. This was a disservice to the young quarterback and in all likelihood, it permanently stunted Cunningham's leadership abilities in later years.

He garnered a well deserved reputation for laziness. Of course, we've all heard the stories of the way he relied on Billick to shout instructions into the headset for him in Minnesota, usually complicated stuff like huck it deep to Moss, dummy!

[DomCasual]

Your friend is smoking crack.

Well, he's probably somebody's friend, and he is smoking crack.

I have heard the argument regarding Steve Tasker before. It bugs me that some of the same columnists who feel guys like Rod Smith, Steve Atwater, and TD are considered longshots to ever get into the Hall of Fame will argue that a part-time player like Steve Tasker (who lost four Super Bowls, don't forget) should get elected.

But then again, it bugs me that some of those same columnists discount Mike Shanahan's coaching ability while also discounting the Hall of Fame candicacy of the players he coached. So what is it? Was he a great coach that raised the level of play of his players, or was he a Barry Switzer coaching a bunch of Hall of Famers? It just can't be neither.

Bunch of bastards!

[BroncoBuff]

THat is redicules. Cunningham wasn't even as good as Jaworski. Cunningham would fold his tents everytime the going got tough. Too me it always looked like he didn't even like playing football.
To me, it seemed like Randall had two careers - first, the Kordell/Mike Vick type player in Philly . . . and then, didn't he retire, move to Las Vegas and work as a carpenter for awhile . . . and THEN un-retire to go to Minnesota? He was a lot better then.

Maybe Kordell will chuck that Randall/Mike Vick running, "Slash" crap, and have a "Part 2" to his career like Randall did. Maybe Kordell will save the day for the Ravens! (Now THERE's a team Buddy Ryan would love - Trent Dilfer, Elvis Grbac, that new guy from Cal, all mediocre QBs leading piss-poor offenses - whiling away games - waiting for the defense to score).

And maybe Mike Vick will lead the 2013 Houston Texans to a Super Bowl, too.

Anyway, Randall seemed a lot more serious and focused in Minnesota - it wasn't HIS fault they choked against the Falcons in the championship game. All HE did that year was lead their offense to THE MOST POINTS EVER in the NFL.

[Atlas]

Well, he's probably somebody's friend, and he is smoking crack.

I have heard the argument regarding Steve Tasker before. It bugs me that some of the same columnists who feel guys like Rod Smith, Steve Atwater, and TD are considered longshots to ever get into the Hall of Fame will argue that a part-time player like Steve Tasker (who lost four Super Bowls, don't forget) should get elected.

But then again, it bugs me that some of those same columnists discount Mike Shanahan's coaching ability while also discounting the Hall of Fame candicacy of the players he coached. So what is it? Was he a great coach that raised the level of play of his players, or was he a Barry Switzer coaching a bunch of Hall of Famers? It just can't be neither.

Bunch of bastards!


Tasker was a great special teamer but he wasn't any better than Burns that's for sure. The only reason he got all the hype was that he played in 4 Superbowls and he was white.

[-Slap-]

Anyway, Randall seemed a lot more serious and focused in Minnesota - it wasn't HIS fault they choked against the Falcons in the championship game. All HE did that year was lead their offense to THE MOST POINTS EVER in the NFL.

He really didn't do anything, except huck it up for grabs with Minnesota. He had the brilliant season during Moss' rookie year, but was ineffective, and out as the starter, halfway through the next season. Billick was in the skybox, hollering into Randall's helmet headset, until the second they cut the connection on every down. Randall was totally lost when Billick went to Baltimore the next season.

[BroncoBuff]

He really didn't do anything, except huck it up for grabs with Minnesota. He had the brilliant season during Moss' rookie year, but was ineffective, and out as the starter, halfway through the next season. Billick was in the skybox, hollering into Randall's helmet headset, until the second they cut the connection on every down. Randall was totally lost when Billick went to Baltimore the next season.
That is so freaking fascinating, man! I would LOVE to hear that crazy Billick hollering at Randall - trying to beat the shutoff. Does an official cut the coach-to-QB transmission at some point? When? Sometimes I think I see Shanahan between plays with one hand flipping a switch at his waist, and the other holding the laminates over his face while he talks - then he stops and Jake calls the play.

I will say that if all Randall did was "chuck it up," he was pretty f***ing successful - the 98 Vikes set the record for points scored. Although, he DID have Chris Carter, Randy Moss, Mike Tice at TE and that really good RB (who retired real early b/c he didn't like football or something?) Hey - you're in Vegas, did Randall work as a carpenter there before his Vikings comeback, or is my memory making s*** up?

Just this week I saw some footage of the '98 Championship game - during warmups, and there was Billick - big as the day - TOWERING over Dennis Green. Tice was there, too. Between me and you - I'm GLAD the Vikings choked. They might've beat us in that Super Bowl.

And what about the Aikman rumor - didn't Barry Switzer confirm (or maybe start?) that rumor after Troy left - just to be a dick?

[anthonypacino]

If you guys think this talk is crazy and hate listening to all this bull crap just wait about 10/15 years when all these Patriots start going in like every Packer in the 60's and Steeler in the 70's

[Jason in LA]

I'm GLAD the Vikings choked. They might've beat us in that Super Bowl.



The Broncos would have smashed them too. A really good defense could slow down that Viks O. The Falcons did it for the final three quarters and OT. Pretty much stopped them cold after the Viks had a big first quarter. I think they ran out to a 20-7 lead, and looked like they'd score 50+ points that day. Than the Falcons busted them up the rest of the game. I think the Viks scored 7 points the rest of the game.

The Broncos had more than enough D to contain that Viks O. But the Viks didn't have the D to contain the Broncos O. The Broncos would have scored at will on that Viks D.

[NaptownChief]

You are still nuts but you are correct on this topic. When Art Monk is still struggling to get in Cunningham has no chance. Tasker is so far off the radar it doesn't even merit mention.

[KipCorrington25]

If Tasker gets in then I think Mark Kelso should get in just because of his crazy helemet. The helmet is first ballet HOF material for certain.

http://www.detroitsportsrag.com/images/kelso.jpg

[DrFate]

Maybe this guy is pulling your chain?

???

Cunningham - no
Tasker - wouldn't even make a Bill's ring of fame

The real question - does a guy like Testeverde or Bledsoe, top 10 all time in career yards, get in? They remind me of Raffy Palmerio - their career numbers look pretty nice, but while they were playing they were considered pretty average.

[-Slap-]

Maybe this guy is pulling your chain?

???

Cunningham - no
Tasker - wouldn't even make a Bill's ring of fame

The real question - does a guy like Testeverde or Bledsoe, top 10 all time in career yards, get in? They remind me of Raffy Palmerio - their career numbers look pretty nice, but while they were playing they were considered pretty average.
Since Vinny's name was a punchline for the first half of his career, and Bledoe's has become one in the second half of his, I'm going to say no and no.

[bendog]

Since Vinny's name was a punchline for the first half of his career, and Bledoe's has become one in the second half of his, I'm going to say no and no.
Yeah, and both are lightyears ahead of Randal's career.

[BMF Bronco]

Hell, Deberg will make it before Cunningham! :bash:

[DomCasual]

Hell, Deberg will make it before Cunningham! :bash:

Oh my - I think I just threw up in my mouth.:alghh:

[BroncoBuff]

Maybe this guy is pulling your chain? Cunningham - no
Tasker - wouldn't even make a Bill's ring of fame

The real question - does a guy like Testeverde or Bledsoe, top 10 all time in career yards, get in? They remind me of Raffy Palmerio - their career numbers look pretty nice, but while they were playing they were considered pretty average.
You're right about all that - actually, it's very tough to get into the HOF. Testaverde - NO WAY. Bledsoe - NO WAY.

In another thread, we were arguing about whether LOUIS WRIGHT and STEVE ATWATER deserved to be in. I did a little research - here's that post:
Okay - nothing like a little research on the topic. I'm surprised we didn't do this before. Here's the scoop:

In the Modern Era (post-WWII) there is a total of only SEVENTEEN DBs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Even worse - that 17 total is safeties AND cornerbacks COMBINED!

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.jsp

I guess that ends the Louis Wright/Steve Atwater argument. And with just 16 TOTAL LINEBACKERS, I guess Fletcher is out, too. I won't even discuss Tom Jackson, Rulon Jones and Dennis Smith. Man, how the **** did I get in the position to argue AGAINST these guys?! They're my favorite guys EVER!

The Steve Tasker and Randall Cunningham stuff is just nonsense. Click the link and look who's there (Steve WATSON deserves it as much as Steve TASKER!)

[BMF Bronco]

Oh my - I think I just threw up in my mouth.:alghh:
now that's just wrong!

[BroncoBuff]

A much more relevant, interesting (and sane) argument is - Gary Zimmerman, and . . . coming soon to an orangemane HOF thread near you . . . Tom Nalen and Shannon Sharpe. (And when is Schlereth going into the RING of fame?)

Obviously, Shannon is a lock - I'm just hoping Tony Gonzales doesn't catch him until after the induction ceremony. Shannon should be #1 standing up there.

Betcha didn't realize . . . Shannon has 10,000 yards, too! Don't forget his Ravens totals count - and they push him over 10k and ahead of Rod even. And although Shannon WAS drafted, he was drafted in a round that doesn't exist anymore . . . like 9 or 11 or something.

Man, that Wade Phillips could really spot offensive talent! :notworthy

TRIVIA (probably too easy for this crowd, but...) What jersey number did Shannon Sharpe wear in his rookie year?

[Clockwork Orange]

TRIVIA (probably too easy for this crowd, but...) What jersey number did Shannon Sharpe wear in his rookie year?

He wore #1.

And Sharpe will be in on the first ballot. He's got the records and the rings.

[2KBack]

A much more relevant, interesting (and sane) argument is - Gary Zimmerman, and . . . coming soon to an orangemane HOF thread near you . . . Tom Nalen and Shannon Sharpe. (And when is Schlereth going into the RING of fame?)

Obviously, Shannon is a lock - I'm just hoping Tony Gonzales doesn't catch him until after the induction ceremony. Shannon should be #1 standing up there.

Betcha didn't realize . . . Shannon has 10,000 yards, too! Don't forget his Ravens totals count - and they push him over 10k and ahead of Rod even. And although Shannon WAS drafted, he was drafted in a round that doesn't exist anymore . . . like 9 or 11 or something.

Man, that Wade Phillips could really spot offensive talent! :notworthy

TRIVIA (probably too easy for this crowd, but...) What jersey number did Shannon Sharpe wear in his rookie year?

he was a 7th rounder, that's still pretty low, a round that exists still

[-Slap-]

A much more relevant, interesting (and sane) argument is - Gary Zimmerman, and . . . coming soon to an orangemane HOF thread near you . . . Tom Nalen and Shannon Sharpe. (And when is Schlereth going into the RING of fame?

You keep making comments dismissing the very discussion of all time great Broncos for the Hall of Fame, yet you repeatedly bring up Tom Nalen like he's actually got a snowball's chance in hell of induction. Let's pretend, for the sake of argument, that he won't just split votes with Zimmerman for the next fifteen years.

Like Louis Wright, Nalen has been to five Pro Bowls, two fewer than Randy Gradishar. I guess the two Super Bowl Rings and the Broncos' success as a running team is the reason you consider Nails to be a superior player. I think a poll of the respective peers of the three athletes would surprise you.

Not many people will look back on this period and consider Tom Nalen the best center of the era. That honor would undoubtedly go to Dermontti Dawson. Many people consider Kevin Mawae to be superior to Nalen, too. Although a ridiculous notion, Mawae does play in New York, which isn't going to hurt him any. Hell, Olin Kruetz has already been to three Pro Bowls. A few more and he's in the mix, right?

The Hall of Fame is a bad joke anyway.

[Breck Bronc]

He wore #1.Wasn't it #81?

He wore a single digit number during training camp back in the day. I think it was #9, though I'm not really sure on that.

[elsid13]

It always fun to watch team fans argue for a particular guy that good but not great. Personally I think Bettis shouldn’t even candidate but Steelers fans will argue that he needs to go for total yards

[Circle Orange]

Ryan was a hammerheaded bobo coach who told Randal to 'just run around', don't worry about the offense and just be an athlete. Worked like a charm before the knee operations and the cadaver ligament replacements. :o

[watermock]

Both Sharpe and Rod Smith deserve a place in the the ROF with Elway if Aikman, Irvin and Smith get them in CowTown. I doubt Rod Smith will make the HOF unless he can crack 1000 receptions. I'm more concerned he gets on the ring of fame when his time comes.

[ozomulsion]

I've been having a debate with a guy on a Madden message board. For some odd reason, he swears Randall Cunningham will make the Hall of Fame. I think it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. He then goes on to say Steve Tasker will make it in too. Yeah, the guy is nuts. Most people in the thread say neither will get in. But this guy doesn't get it. So I'm making sure I'm not the one who's nuts. Here is a link. Let me know what you guys think. I'll give him this link so he can see everybody's response.

http://www.maddenworldsyndicate.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11718

There's your problem. You are discussing things on the Madden message boards. Those people have no rhyme or reason to what they say. I love those boards because they are what I was on, when I was refereed to the orangemane. I said bu-buy and never went back. Sad but true.

[watermock]

Listen to some of the quotes by Madden on Bang's Pod comedy hour. Some are real, some are comical. Just don't invite fools in here. Usually they last about 12-72 hours before wimpering off, it's just stupid to post stuff you have absolutely no clue about. Before you snap at me for some stupid off topic posts, I pretty much morph into just football around this time once things start sorting out. I think Bang is able to point out there is always some comedy, he's just exceptionally gifted at it.

At any rate, you have to listen to their hour long show. It's worth listening to if you just hide the site and can just kinda listen to it as background musak. They really are quite insightfull and of course, quite hillarious. In the E-Mail section several people were ripping him and his buddy for trying to make a few dollars selling their cartoons on DVD and accepting sponsors. The response was hillarious. They said they were not communists and no, they were not in it to amuse people for their amusement for free, and I don't blame them. One of them gave a Capitalist rant that would of made Ronald Reagan proud.

[BroncoBuff]

he was a 7th rounder, that's still pretty low, a round that exists still
7th Round? I stand corrected.
Sharpe wearing #1? I stand corrected there too (I think). The answer I had in mind was #81.


-Slap- you're right - Nalen and Zim will split votes. And Nalen probably has very little chance - Dawson and Mawae are probably better - touche! But seriously, don't you feel dirty arguing AGAINST those guys? :-/ Problem is - if you look at the Hall link - there's very few guys there. Only 17 corners AND safeties combined - since WWII? Only 16 LBs?

Zim does have TWO all-decade teams, though. That oughtta be a lock w/ a Super Bowl - and he is one guy who went to the Pro Bowl EVERY YEAR - as I recall. PLUS - once in a VERY GREAT WHILE - ESPN Classic will play that Steve Young vs. Jim Kelly . . . L.A. Express vs. Houston Gamblers game. Zim is right there at left tackle. Can't tell much from TV - but he never gets backed up, and rarely seems out of position. I know it's just the USFL - but they call it the "PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame," not "NFL Hall of Fame."

[-Slap-]

7th Round? I stand corrected.
Sharpe wearing #1? I stand corrected there too (I think). The answer I had in mind was #81.


-Slap- you're right - Nalen and Zim will split votes. And Nalen probably has very little chance

Zim does have TWO all-decade teams, though. PLUS - once in a VERY GREAT WHILE - ESPN Classic will play that Steve Young vs. Jim Kelly . . . L.A. Express vs. Houston Gamblers game. Zim is right there at left tackle. Can't tell much from TV - but he never gets backed up, and rarely seems out of position. I know it's just the USFL - but they call it the "PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame," not "NFL Hall of Fame."

I think Zim has lowered chances because he was a Bronco.

Its beyond absurd that the Broncos have only one enshrinee after 45 seasons, arguably the best player ever at his position, and other franchises have as many as 26. Even other teams established in 1960, far surpass the Broncos' total, despite less impressive team accomplishments.

The voting system for the NFL Hall of Fame is unbelievably flawed. I've heard you talk about some players and say they wouldn't draw a vote. Unfortunately the public isn't privy to information like vote totals. In fact, the entire way the voting is done makes assessing vote totals impossible. The one man, one vote system popularized by the Baseball Hall of Fame and most civilized countries isn't good enough for the croney laden NFL Hall of Fame Committee.

Voting for the NFL HOF is all hammered out behind closed doors in your proverbial smoke filled rooms. Impassioned pleas from guys who never played, coached or scouted professionally, like phallus-faced SI football hack Paul Zimmerman, are given an unlikely amount of weight. Writers who have personal favorites get together with their other hack buddies and collude support for each other's candidates.

Of course, there was the time Floyd Little's name came up. Before anyone could stand up to makes his case, asshole-in-a-hat Tom Landry pipes in with, "Who?"

Complete silence. Next case. I'm sure old Tom still chuckles about it down there in hell.

F___ the NFL Hall of Fame.

[BroncoBuff]

Of course, there was the time Floyd Little's name came up. Before anyone could stand up to makes his case, a-hole-in-a-hat Tom Landry pipes in with, "Who?"

Complete silence. Next case. I'm sure old Tom still chuckles about it down there in hell.

F___ the NFL Hall of Fame.
OK - new topic. I like to think I go WAAAAY back with the Broncos -

John Scarpitta
Dave Costa
Jerry Inman (the #62 riding Fontaine's avatar horse)
Fred Forsberg
Steve Tensi
Wandy Williams
George Goeddeke
Charlie Greer
Grady Cavness
Paul Smith

etc . . . etc . . . etc . . . I even remember when they drafted Bobby Anderson out of CU the year after the Buffs finished #3 in the nation.

But I do NOT remember Landry dissing Floyd Little. Do tell . . . ! ! !

[sisterhellfyre]

I've been having a debate with a guy on a Madden message board. For some odd reason, he swears Randall Cunningham will make the Hall of Fame. I think it's the silliest thing I've heard in a while. He then goes on to say Steve Tasker will make it in too.

Cunningham might make it to the Hall someday as a "old-timer" chosen by the Seniors Committee. He didn't have enough immediate impact in his career to make himself a sure-bet vote like Marino or Elway. The old-timers might put him in someday as a "prototype" or the first of the "modern era" running, gunning QBs like Michael Vick, Steve Young, Donovan McNabb, etc.

Regards,
m.

[sisterhellfyre]

He then goes on to say Steve Tasker will make it in too. Yeah, the guy is nuts. Most people in the thread say neither will get in. But this guy doesn't get it. So I'm making sure I'm not the one who's nuts.

Sorry, I meant to include this in my earlier reply.

Tasker might actually have a prayer of making the HOF. Seems there's a trend in the NFL right now to recognize the importance of special teams. Probably 20% of the plays in a game are kicks of some sort. (I've never counted, so I don't know an exact percentage.) From missed extra points to late field goals to TD returns, they decide a lot of games. Seems like a special teams ace like Tasker can have almost as much impact on a game as most solid offensive or defensive skill-position players. An ST gunner will never have the impact of a star QB, WR or RB, but it's the STers that determine where the stars start on the field.

Other ST aces that might someday make the Hall: Dallas' Bill Bates and Miami's Larry Izzo. (Keith Burns is a solid ST linebacker and means the world to the Broncos STs, but hasn't garnered the media attention these two earned.) It might be a measure of the ST aces' real importance to their teams that I can even come up with their names after a moment's reflection. I've never been either a Dolphins or Cowboys fan; shoot, I'd even be hard-pressed to come up with the names of all the Broncos' special teamers, much less STers from other teams. But these guys I remember...

Regards,
m.