Tatum Bell

[Ratboy]

Impressed me when he touched the ball. I don't get why Shanahan doesnt use him more. IMO Anderson and Bell should be get equal carries, and maybe Bell some more.

What do you think, Will Shanahan relize Tatum has more skill than Anderson and Dayne combined and start utilizing him?

:gossip:

[Atlas]

Impressed me when he touched the ball. I don't get why Shanahan doesnt use him more. IMO Anderson and Bell should be get equal carries, and maybe Bell some more.

What do you think, Will Shanahan relize Tatum has more skill than Anderson and Dayne combined and start utilizing him?

:gossip:

I like what Shanny did. Beat down the team with Dayne and Anderson then put in Bell and the defense will be caught totally off guard and unprepared for his speed.

[Drek]

Mike won the job out of camp and Shanahan doesn't believe in Running Back by Committee. Mike gets 20+ carries until he's either hurt or not getting it done.

However, I liked tonight's run heavy attack where we used Mike to open it up, then spelled him with Dayne and Tatum to keep the Chefs off balance.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Mike won the job out of camp and Shanahan doesn't believe in Running Back by Committee. Mike gets 20+ carries until he's either hurt or not getting it done.


The problem is that people look at one or two plays and assume Mike is getting it done.

20 carries for 98 yards last night, and he got 77 of those yards on 4 carries (44, 14, 9, and 10). So he had another 21 yards on 16 carries. The guy needs a huge hole to make something happen so far this year.

[bloodsunday]

The problem is that people look at one or two plays and assume Mike is getting it done.

20 carries for 98 yards last night, and he got 77 of those yards on 4 carries (44, 14, 9, and 10). So he had another 21 yards on 16 carries. The guy needs a huge hole to make something happen so far this year.
Exactly. Mike is a good back, but he just doesn't have the down to down effectiveness that we need. He isn't going to play another D as soft as KC for a while. I still think Tatum needs more carries before we can say he isn't the answer. While I don't like the argument, I will say that Denver appears resigned (at least the last two games) to using the pass to set up the run and that's not Tatum's strongest area. I wanna see Tatum get at least 15 touches a game.

[DarkHorse]

I want Bell to start.

[meangene]

I agree on Anderson. He ran better but his numbers are deceiving. He was the beneficiary of a pass first game plan. He does not consistently churn out positive yardage. I think Bell is best suited for spot duty and a change of pace like last night. I'm not jumping off the Dayne train. Still think he should start. By the way, has Watts dropped a pass yet? Maybe he has found his niche as a number 4 receiver?

[bloodsunday]

<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">M. Anderson (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187481)</td><td>20</td><td>98</td><td>1</td><td>44</td></tr><tr class="bg3" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">A. Lelie (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302206)</td><td>2</td><td>56</td><td>0</td><td>39</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">T. Bell (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889)</td><td>5</td><td>47</td><td>0</td><td>24</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Bell had 1/2 the yards on 1/4 the carries. I'm no mathmatician, but that's pretty good. I know its not a fair comparison, but I think it warrants more carries for Bell. I think a Thunder and Lightning kind of thing could be fun.

[yavoon]

I agree on Anderson. He ran better but his numbers are deceiving. He was the beneficiary of a pass first game plan. He does not consistently churn out positive yardage. I think Bell is best suited for spot duty and a change of pace like last night. I'm not jumping off the Dayne train. Still think he should start. By the way, has Watts dropped a pass yet? Maybe he has found his niche as a number 4 receiver?


is no1 else annoyed that watts couldn't hold the #3? wasn't he suppose to be awesomesized?

[bloodsunday]

is no1 else annoyed that watts couldn't hold the #3? wasn't he suppose to be awesomesized?
It's only year 2 for him. He'll get at least one more offseason to take it back. Right now am I just happy to see Adams starting to contribute (although he better hang onto those punts).

[yavoon]

It's only year 2 for him. He'll get at least one more offseason to take it back. Right now am I just happy to see Adams starting to contribute (although he better hang onto those punts).


what year is it for charlie adams? 2?

[dnvrbrncos]

<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">M. Anderson (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187481)</td><td>20</td><td>98</td><td>1</td><td>44</td></tr><tr class="bg3" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">A. Lelie (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302206)</td><td>2</td><td>56</td><td>0</td><td>39</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">T. Bell (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889)</td><td>5</td><td>47</td><td>0</td><td>24</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Bell had 1/2 the yards on 1/4 the carries. I'm no mathmatician, but that's pretty good. I know its not a fair comparison, but I think it warrants more carries for Bell. I think a Thunder and Lightning kind of thing could be fun.

Don't forget you have to remove all runs of 9 yards or more, using Herc's style of analysis.

[Broncoman13]

It's just a matter of time, but honestly the plays that Adams has been making as a WR have been nice. He caught a nice ball thrown behind him by Jake early in the game. Not sure whether Watts would have caught that ball or not. I'm a big Watts fan/supporter and he's dropped very few passes this year to include the preseason that were on target. Once he missed a couple EVERYBODY started piling on him. If he missed a ball that was three feet over his head or down by his toes it was a drop! He's got game. I wouldn't mind seeing him on that same reverse play we ran to Ash. I think he could be very effective with that play b/c of his quickness. He can break ankles with his moves.


As for Tatum Bell vs MA...it's a no brainer. I won't sit here and say anything bad about MA though. He did great in pass protection and had some nice runs. Tatum is the same way in regards to needing a hole. In fact, any of the greats here in Denver have been the same. So I guess the question becomes, who sees the hole better? If that's MA then keep him in there. If Tatum can see the hole just as well then he needs more reps. I'm not kewl with Tatum being in there on pass protection though. MA is a lot more trusted in that regard.

[bloodsunday]

what year is it for charlie adams? 2?
I think this is year 3 for Adams.

[errand]

The problem is that people look at one or two plays and assume Mike is getting it done.

20 carries for 98 yards last night, and he got 77 of those yards on 4 carries (44, 14, 9, and 10). So he had another 21 yards on 16 carries. The guy needs a huge hole to make something happen so far this year.

......breaking a few long runs isn't getting it done?

I guess we should replace Lelie, after all he's only good for a couple of 30 yard receptions per game, huh?

[yavoon]

Don't forget you have to remove all runs of 9 yards or more, using Herc's style of analysis.

u dont remove them, u just set them equal to 9. unless herc does something really weird.

[broncosteven]

It does not appear to me that Mike has any quickness. He continues to hit the hole late & takes forever to get up to speed. He was lucky the hole was there on his long TD run.

Plus he fell down at the goal line & then had no speed at the edge on the pitch out that he should have been in the endzone on.

I love his heart but I prefer to see Dayne or Tatum in there.

I know Tatum is not #1 because he struggles with Blitz pickups & has trouble catching (thought we don't seem to be passing to backs much this year). The Oline played very well last night, MA should have put up 150+ on them. It will be tougher to run on them in Anal-head, we need a back that can explode through the holes before they close up & protect the ball!

[errand]

Don't forget you have to remove all runs of 9 yards or more, using Herc's style of analysis.

That's almost as comical as the one poster who said Hape's 1 yard TD's were meaningless. I then asked him if we should discount all 3 of Terrell Davis' 1 yard TD's in SBXXXII.....

Bell got his yards against a worn down D...worn down by Mike's constant bashing into them, and worn down from chasing Jake on play action fakes....

Beat a D down for 3 qtrs, and then put in a fresh back with blazing speed vs a worn down D, and you increase the probability of a big gainer.

Bottom line is we ran the ball well enough to whip KC by 2 TD's....why people are complaining is beyond me.

[bombquixote]

It does not appear to me that Mike has any quickness. He continues to hit the hole late & takes forever to get up to speed. He was lucky the hole was there on his long TD run.

Plus he fell down at the goal line & then had no speed at the edge on the pitch out that he should have been in the endzone on.

I love his heart but I prefer to see Dayne or Tatum in there.

I know Tatum is not #1 because he struggles with Blitz pickups & has trouble catching (thought we don't seem to be passing to backs much this year). The Oline played very well last night, MA should have put up 150+ on them. It will be tougher to run on them in Anal-head, we need a back that can explode through the holes before they close up & protect the ball!

except for that outside run on the goalline, i thought MA looked pretty quick last night. much quicker than last week. after the san diego game i called for dayne or bell to be the starter because mike was just too slow...but i guess it was the rib injury. he had speed last night. he got it done. keep him in there.

[Drek]

The problem is that people look at one or two plays and assume Mike is getting it done.

20 carries for 98 yards last night, and he got 77 of those yards on 4 carries (44, 14, 9, and 10). So he had another 21 yards on 16 carries. The guy needs a huge hole to make something happen so far this year.
You can pick apart a lot of strong rushing days if you're willing to discount 1/5th of a guy's carries. However, I agree with you, Anderson isn't a dominant back. I think Tatum could produce better running the ball, but then Tatum is a one dimensional back at this point. He doesn't catch well and he doesn't block well. Anderson threw some awesome blocks for Jake last night that directly lead to big passing plays for us, and I don't see Bell making most of those blocks. Anderson hauled in some key catches in the comeback against SD last week, I don't see Bell making those plays either.

I'm all for Bell getting the starting job, I think he'll take it by season's end, very possibly next week, but he needs to take it by showing that he's an all around back, not just a dangerous rusher who can't protect Jake or give him a target out of the backfield.

Edit: As of right now I'd like to see Dayne get more carries than Bell, he can block and catch, as well as producing big for us late against SD. Right now I want him coming in when Anderson needs a breather, with Bell used as a change of pace guy until he shows the coaching staff during weekly practice that he's more than just a ball carrier.

[Dagmar]

<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"> <tbody><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">M. Anderson (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187481)</td><td>20</td><td>98</td><td>1</td><td>44</td></tr><tr class="bg3" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">A. Lelie (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302206)</td><td>2</td><td>56</td><td>0</td><td>39</td></tr><tr class="bg2" align="right" height="17" valign="middle"><td align="left">T. Bell (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889)</td><td>5</td><td>47</td><td>0</td><td>24</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Bell had 1/2 the yards on 1/4 the carries. I'm no mathmatician, but that's pretty good. I know its not a fair comparison, but I think it warrants more carries for Bell. I think a Thunder and Lightning kind of thing could be fun.


Lelie had MORE than half the yards on a TENTH of the carries.
He should start!!!!!!!!!

I am an idiot...

[DarkHorse30]

It does not appear to me that Mike has any quickness. He continues to hit the hole late & takes forever to get up to speed. He was lucky the hole was there on his long TD run.



Anderson was quick enough to outrun all of KCs secondary on that 50 yard td run. He's more of a power runner than Bell or Portis. Will be interesting to see how Shanahan manages the RBs this year.

Did anybody see LT get caught by that DE in the SDvsGints game? Couldn't believe it, I thought LT was one of the fastest guys in the game....not on that play.

[Old Dude]

The offense scored 30.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[Popps]

Great to see Bell getting some carries. Another thing to take note of... Watts had a very nice block on Bell's long run.

Hope we continue to get those two more involved in the offense.

[DBroncos4life]

Keep doing what we are doing I guess, but if we are going to try and do that toss in on the goalline do it with Bell. He is faster and he cuts better. He could have stopped and that guy would have ran right by him.

[broncosteven]

Anderson was quick enough to outrun all of KCs secondary on that 50 yard td run. He's more of a power runner than Bell or Portis. Will be interesting to see how Shanahan manages the RBs this year.

Did anybody see LT get caught by that DE in the SDvsGints game? Couldn't believe it, I thought LT was one of the fastest guys in the game....not on that play.


I am talking QUICKNESS NOT SPEED here. When he got moving he gained Speed. I am not questioning his Speed but his quickness to the hole. By the time he got to the secondary he was at full speed & that is great, but it takes him time to get up to speed. Tatum EXPLODES to the hole. Holes don't stay open very long & we need a guy to see it & hit it when it is there. MA got crushed at the line many times last night due to his lack of QUICKNESS or Burst.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Exactly. Mike is a good back, but he just doesn't have the down to down effectiveness that we need. He isn't going to play another D as soft as KC for a while. I still think Tatum needs more carries before we can say he isn't the answer. While I don't like the argument, I will say that Denver appears resigned (at least the last two games) to using the pass to set up the run and that's not Tatum's strongest area. I wanna see Tatum get at least 15 touches a game.


I dont necessarily think that Anderson is the problem. As you can see from our goal-line ineffectiveness, our line isnt getting the push that it did in the TD-Elway days.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Tatum breaks some big ones, but he also has plenty of 1 yarders mixed in, which is pretty true for most backs, but TB doensn't block or catch like Mike...and when he does go for 1 yard gains he's not punishing somebody like Mike. I see it being Mike's job to lose and TB staying #2 till he picks up blitzes and gets more consistent catching the ball. That said...he's a nice change of pace and dangerous when he's in there. He'll bust an 80 yarder before the year's up I believe, maybe several.

[DarkHorse]

KC played like crap last night - MA will be exposed sooner or later. I love the guy and what he has done for us but our offense needs an explosive running back to keep us in sync.

Put Bell in and let him get this system down on the fly. If he happens to go down with injury plug in Dayne, who is already much faster than MA.

[DarkHorse]

I am talking QUICKNESS NOT SPEED here. When he got moving he gained Speed. I am not questioning his Speed but his quickness to the hole. By the time he got to the secondary he was at full speed & that is great, but it takes him time to get up to speed. Tatum EXPLODES to the hole. Holes don't stay open very long & we need a guy to see it & hit it when it is there. MA got crushed at the line many times last night due to his lack of QUICKNESS or Burst.


Precisely.

[azbroncfan]

Tatum will start when he starts blocking on pass protection, catching gimme TD's, and running right plays. Anyone notice the play where he ran right past plummer and didn't even look for the ball when he was clearly supposed to get it. He will start if he matures a little and steps his game up.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

......breaking a few long runs isn't getting it done?

I guess we should replace Lelie, after all he's only good for a couple of 30 yard receptions per game, huh?

Whatever, the guy is not getting it done unless he's got a Mack-truck size hole to run through.

and on the flip side, 10 of his carries went for 2 yards or less. Not exactly a strong consistent performance.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I dont necessarily think that Anderson is the problem. As you can see from our goal-line ineffectiveness, our line isnt getting the push that it did in the TD-Elway days.

That line still got pushed around, just not as bad, it's a consequence of a small line. Those teams still ran a ton of misdirection at the goalline too.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Don't forget you have to remove all runs of 9 yards or more, using Herc's style of analysis.

Taking out the big plays helps to see how consistent he was. 16 carries for 21 yards is pitiful.

[DarkHorse]

Thing is - if our O line is starting to slow down some then the holes are actually going to close quicker - therefore we need a back that can hit that hole fast - real fast.

I'll take Bell in this situation.

[noom]

I like what Shanny did. Beat down the team with Dayne and Anderson then put in Bell and the defense will be caught totally off guard and unprepared for his speed.

I agree with that. I also like how Ratahan decided to use a friggin' fullback on a consistent basis.

[ozomulsion]

I like what Shanny did. Beat down the team with Dayne and Anderson then put in Bell and the defense will be caught totally off guard and unprepared for his speed.

Dayne had 3 carries for 6 yards. He didn't exactly beat anybody down. Anyway, when Tatum pulls his head out of his ass, he will be our starter. The folks who say he doesn't have vision or power, well, they're full of ****.

[2KBack]

I think this is all crap. We win by 20 behind MA beating the KC defense into submission and people still complain. Everyone complains that they want the big play threat in there instead of the marine, he takes it 40+ for a TD, and it's ignored to complain about other carries that weren't big gains. The strongest part of the KC defense this year is the run defense, and everyone and their mother knows we are gonna run it, so they were stacked against it. Yet the guy always went foreward. Dayne looked weak when he was in, Bell looked great becasue they got him in space where he belongs. I'm more than happy starting a guy who will punish the defense carry after carry, and threaten to break a big one, then spell him with a guy that will blow by while the defense is trying to catch their breath.

[westcliffe]

I personally like the way the backs were used against KC. I like Bell okay, but MA is a better receiver and he picks up the blitz better. Bell needs to improve in those areas or he won't ever be starting in front of Anderson, barring injury.

[BroncoFanDoug]

Impressed me when he touched the ball. I don't get why Shanahan doesnt use him more. IMO Anderson and Bell should be get equal carries, and maybe Bell some more.

What do you think, Will Shanahan relize Tatum has more skill than Anderson and Dayne combined and start utilizing him?

:gossip:


Tatum is clearly the quickest, and is the best homerun threat, but he has a few red flags that make me nervous:

(1) Continues to have trouble holding onto the ball. A big no-no.
(2) Injuries. Seems he is always nicked.
(3) Blocking.
(4) Catching.

In my book he needs to improve on 1, 3, and 4 before he is annointed the starter. There is more to the RB position than running the ball...

[Atlas]

Dayne had 3 carries for 6 yards. He didn't exactly beat anybody down. Anyway, when Tatum pulls his head out of his ass, he will be our starter. The folks who say he doesn't have vision or power, well, they're full of ****.

Dayne is the same type of runner that Anderson is. So the three carries Dayne got is just adding to the power factor. Bell will benefit from the big guys earlier runs.

[ozomulsion]

Tatum is clearly the quickest, and is the best homerun threat, but he has a few red flags that make me nervous:

(1) Continues to have trouble holding onto the ball. A big no-no.
(2) Injuries. Seems he is always nicked.
(3) Blocking.
(4) Catching.

In my book he needs to improve on 1, 3, and 4 before he is annointed the starter. There is more to the RB position than running the ball...

#1 is completely invalid. Tatum has 2 fumbles and only 1 lost fumble in his career.

[ozomulsion]

Dayne is the same type of runner that Anderson is. So the three carries Dayne got is just adding to the power factor. Bell will benefit from the big guys earlier runs.

Well, color me retarded but 2 of Dayne's carries came the series before Tatum tore it up. I highly doubt those carries had much effect on Tatum's series.

[DB-Freak]

LMFAO @ Dayne being the same type of runner as MA.

Dayne wishes he had MA's leg drives and strength.

[DarkHorse]

Tatum is clearly the quickest, and is the best homerun threat, but he has a few red flags that make me nervous:

(1) Continues to have trouble holding onto the ball. A big no-no.
(2) Injuries. Seems he is always nicked.
(3) Blocking.
(4) Catching.

In my book he needs to improve on 1, 3, and 4 before he is annointed the starter. There is more to the RB position than running the ball...


Ok - where to start?

How many fumbles does MA have this year? I recall 1 that was at about the 2 yard line costing us a TD.

Next, Injuries. Tatum has an ankle injury - MA a rib injury.

Blocking - haven't seen enough of Bell this year to accurately review him.

Receiving - see above.

MA has him on blocking and receiving if only because he has been in more often.

Take away the fumbles and injuries because Anderson loses both of those categories hands down.


Try again.

[Denver Crush]

Drafting Reggie Bush will silence all of this talk.

[errand]

Taking out the big plays helps to see how consistent he was. 16 carries for 21 yards is pitiful.

Then what would say to the argument that 1 out of every five times he ran the ball, he hit a big play?

Not to mention how many big plays for KC did he prevent by picking up a blitzing LB?

I'm of the belief that the people starting (save for those replacing injured starters, but even then) are the people whom the coaching staff believes gives us the best chance to win games.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bell can be a special RB, but if Bell was all he's made out to be, he would have made this argument a moot point by winning the job outright in training camp...but, alas for his fans....he didn't.

[errand]

BTW...three of Mike's 1 yard gains were near the goal line against a stacked D (9 guys in the box) geared up to do nothing but stop the run.

[BroncoFanDoug]

Ok - where to start?

How many fumbles does MA have this year? I recall 1 that was at about the 2 yard line costing us a TD.

Next, Injuries. Tatum has an ankle injury - MA a rib injury.

Blocking - haven't seen enough of Bell this year to accurately review him.

Receiving - see above.

MA has him on blocking and receiving if only because he has been in more often.

Take away the fumbles and injuries because Anderson loses both of those categories hands down.


Try again.

I would need to research, but I guarantee that Tatum has had more fumbles than 2. This might include pre-season, but that is part of your rep. AND he has not played nearly as much as MA. So I have 5 that says that Tatum fumbles more per yard (or more per run if you prefer) than MA. Let me know if we include pre season before hand. Your single game reference is a fairly worthless addition to the discussion IMHO.

Tatum has been in and out with nicks since he joined the team. I talked about his history, not a given moment in time. Obviously at one moment of time one was injured, etc. etc. Again, time out with injuries per when he would be playing, there is no comparison. I think he doesn't play hurt.

MAs advantage in catching and blocking is not just a question of time in - its how they play, and Tatum has been called out on both.

[ozomulsion]

I would need to research, but I guarantee that Tatum has had more fumbles than 2. This might include pre-season, but that is part of your rep. AND he has not played nearly as much as MA. So I have 5 that says that Tatum fumbles more per yard (or more per run if you prefer) than MA. Let me know if we include pre season before hand. Your single game reference is a fairly worthless addition to the discussion IMHO.

Tatum has been in and out with nicks since he joined the team. I talked about his history, not a given moment in time. Obviously at one moment of time one was injured, etc. etc. Again, time out with injuries per when he would be playing, there is no comparison. I think he doesn't play hurt.

MAs advantage in catching and blocking is not just a question of time in - its how they play, and Tatum has been called out on both.

Man, your post is retarded on so many levels, I don't know where to start. Tatum fumbles more per run. WTF? WRONG. MA was injured the entire last season. So Tatum (second year in the league) will never be able to pick up the blitz as well as MA (32 years old). Okie Dokie. That makes sense Tatum Bell-2 fumbles and 1 lost in his career. Read it and weep sucker.
http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/492889
Try to think before you post next time. It will do you a world of good.

[2KBack]

Runningbacks are almost always nicked up in some way, it comes with the pounding of the position. I really don't think injuries have anything to do with who is starting. I don't have any explanation to why MA is starting over Bell, I like them both and think they both offer a lot. I just assume that MA is the veteran and he out performed Bell in camp, and he's looked pretty good IMO. I would rather have Bell taking the carries that Dayne has had though, he isn't impressing me at all. the MA/Bell 1-2 punch has merit, Dayne looks like a waste of carries.

[Odysseus]

Bell needs to block better...end of story.

[Drek]

Bell needs to block better...end of story.
Exactly, all you Bell lovers can say what you want, but if he can't give Jake any protection when he's asked to he's worthless as a 20+ carries back. Teams will see it coming or we'll be hanging Jake out to dry.

When Bell can block Bell can start, catching passes is gravy, I just don't want him being a turnstyle for linebackers looking to @ssrape Jake.

[ozomulsion]

Exactly, all you Bell lovers can say what you want, but if he can't give Jake any protection when he's asked to he's worthless as a 20+ carries back. Teams will see it coming or we'll be hanging Jake out to dry.

When Bell can block Bell can start, catching passes is gravy, I just don't want him being a turnstyle for linebackers looking to @ssrape Jake.

He blocked just fine on Monday.

[2KBack]

He blocked just fine on Monday.

He's picking it up, and the better he becomes the more he'll be trusted in there. I love MA, and think he is a good back, but I know Bell will be the better HB once his blocking is servicable. I think it's lnsane that people are calling him a bust.