One question about Plummer

[Haroldthebarrel]

I don't get to see too many games but there is one thing that comes up with Plummer from time to time; His batted passes.

Now many say to excuse a lot of his interceptons to be batted at the line, but I hear he has a lot of batted passes every season.
Some also said that we won't draft tall interior linemen as he has trouble seeing the field.

But the problem i find with this is that he is 6'2. The same height or taller than McNabb, Delhomme, Favre, Brees, Brunell, Garcia, Vick and Warner. Only Vick and Garcia has a real rep for having trouble scanning from the pocket.

Is there something about how he moves, plays or anything.
I'd appreciate some feedback on this as I just fail to see why he should have so much trouble, while a lot of others manage just fine.

[broncosteven]

I don't get to see too many games but there is one thing that comes up with Plummer from time to time; His batted passes.

Now many say to excuse a lot of his interceptons to be batted at the line, but I hear he has a lot of batted passes every season.
Some also said that we won't draft tall interior linemen as he has trouble seeing the field.

But the problem i find with this is that he is 6'2. The same height or taller than McNabb, Delhomme, Favre, Brees, Brunell, Garcia, Vick and Warner. Only Vick and Garcia has a real rep for having trouble scanning from the pocket.

Is there something about how he moves, plays or anything.
I'd appreciate some feedback on this as I just fail to see why he should have so much trouble, while a lot of others manage just fine.

He is a small 6' 2" but that said I think the O line is not able to get the clean throwing lanes & D line is able to get their hands up & Bat the ball. I think the one last week was off an Dline players head.

[Ray Finkle]

I think he is shorter then 6'2...some of the INT's are because of batted balls or balls that glance of helmets but the biggest thing is that he is not accurate...that leads to a # of INTs...

[Haroldthebarrel]

He is a small 6' 2" but that said I think the O line is not able to get the clean throwing lanes & D line is able to get their hands up & Bat the ball. I think the one last week was off an Dline players head.

Even if he is 6'1 it shouldnt make up such a difference. 2 inches any way don't make up much of a difference. At least I have never experienced that(playing basketball for instance. Only got problem wihen people wher 3 inches or more)

The point about throwing lanes is a good point.

[BlueCrusher]

He is a small 6' 2" but that said I think the O line is not able to get the clean throwing lanes & D line is able to get their hands up & Bat the ball. I think the one last week was off an Dline players head.

I watched that play on the Game of the Week on the NFL channel. On that play, Plummer somewhat sidearmed it which took even more height off of the ball. That could be one of the reasons he gets balls batted down so much.

[Hulamau]

Plummer's always had that problem. He's a very average pocket passer and only really makes things happen from the roll out.

He also has serious happy feet while in the pocket and his feet are not always well set when he throws fom the pocket.

Eli Manning lost last night but not because of poor throwing mechanics.


Plummer is and always will be a gunsligner more sand-lot than precision amd its a real limitation that usually gets to a team by hte end of a whole season.

Now that I've bashed him before the game, I'm hoping it provides a dose of reverse mojo and he throws a perfect game tonight with 380 yrds 5 TDs and no INTs.

I'll be more than happy to eat some of that crow manana!

[elpasojoe]

I look and relook at taped games and the thing that strikes me about his lack of accuracy is what I believe is poor mechanics. I agree with Blue Crusher, sometimes the ball comes out in a sidearm fashion. When you look at the tape, you notice that his elbow is closer to his body that what you would like. Hulamu is also correct: his footwork is not the best. I also believe he throws too much off his back foot, and fails to follow through on the throw. Those little things could contribute to passes in the ground, in the air, behind and in front of receivers.
As a fan it is SO frustrating to never see a pass in the reciever's numbers. And it seems to me that when it does happen, the reciever drops it. Could it be possible they are so surprised to get it there?
I have one question. Didn't someone on the Mane mention during the Spring that Plummer was to be working on mechanics with a Quarterback coach. Does anyone know if that happened?

[DBroncos4life]

I still think on some of the throws there IS a passing lane the Dline just pushes the Oline back right as he is throwing the ball. Thats what it looked like to me on the pick against SD. On the replay I saw the lane then when he let the ball go Hamilton got pushed back and bam the ball bounced off the Dline guys head. Still most QBs don't throw over hand anymore. Its more of a three quarter armed throw. This is the main reason I have been begging for a taller QB.

[Haroldthebarrel]

Thanks a lot guys... But the question is still somewhat unanswered since Qbs at his height have not nearly the same problem. And it would suck if we cannot draft guys like Mathis because of it.

Very interesting points. Wonder what guys with some internal connecton know about this like Mediator, Wabbit and Taco John to name a few.

I downloaded a piece of Omar Jacobs the other day and got impressed. I'd really like him if he is available. Dont trust Plummer too much, altho he gives us a good chance to win. Granted it was a "best of" but he reminds me of Culpepper wiht a sidearm delivery. Carr also had that and worked on it.

[Taco John]

I look and relook at taped games and the thing that strikes me about his lack of accuracy is what I believe is poor mechanics. I agree with Blue Crusher, sometimes the ball comes out in a sidearm fashion. When you look at the tape, you notice that his elbow is closer to his body that what you would like. Hulamu is also correct: his footwork is not the best. I also believe he throws too much off his back foot, and fails to follow through on the throw. Those little things could contribute to passes in the ground, in the air, behind and in front of receivers.
As a fan it is SO frustrating to never see a pass in the reciever's numbers. And it seems to me that when it does happen, the reciever drops it. Could it be possible they are so surprised to get it there?
I have one question. Didn't someone on the Mane mention during the Spring that Plummer was to be working on mechanics with a Quarterback coach. Does anyone know if that happened?


Great analysis. Welcome to the Mane!

[Taco John]

You've heard of deceptive speed? Jake Plummer is deceptively tall... ;)

[24champ]

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Player/197482_djjumps170x250.JPG

I like this playmaker right here, Omar Jacobs has great stats but im afraid he is a system QB. DJ Shockley is more of a mix between Mcnabb and Vick. He can escape a jam really quick AND the broncos have a history of great players from UGA.....Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, and Champ Bailey. Just to name a few.


http://www.onlineathens.com/images/102002/shockley_rcr.jpg

[Ray Finkle]

http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/Player/197482_djjumps170x250.JPG

I like this playmaker right here, Omar Jacobs has great stats but im afraid he is a system QB. DJ Shockley is more of a mix between Mcnabb and Vick. He can escape a jam really quick AND the broncos have a history of great players from UGA.....Terrell Davis, Olandis Gary, and Champ Bailey. Just to name a few.


http://www.onlineathens.com/images/102002/shockley_rcr.jpg



Foster....

[24champ]

yes i forgot thanks finkle...rep.

[broncosteven]

You've heard of deceptive speed? Jake Plummer is deceptively tall... ;)

I got his autograph after last game & could have sworn I was looking down at the top of Jakes head & I am only 5'11". If anything he had to look up to me!

He does have bad foot work & many of last years int's were due to throwing off the wrong foot.

It could be worse we could have Joey Harrington or Kyle Orton as our QB's of future! Jake is a playoff QB he needs to prove he can win the big game!

[DBroncos4life]

Leinart, Leinart, Leinart, must draft Leinart!!!! I guess I could live with Charlie Whitehurst ;D

[24champ]

Leinart, Leinart, Leinart, must draft Leinart!!!! I guess I could live with Charlie Whitehurst ;D

i dont know, i live in SOCAL and we all know he loves the college game, i dunno if he can adjust to the NFL. Either way hes too high for us and too much money. Im still banking on Shockley in late first round or even second round.

[DBroncos4life]

i dont know, i live in SOCAL and we all know he loves the college game, i dunno if he can adjust to the NFL. Either way hes too high for us and too much money. Im still banking on Shockley in late first round or even second round.



Ha, look at Palmer and how he's adjusting. Looks to be just fine to me.

[24champ]

Ha, look at Palmer and how he's adjusting. Looks to be just fine to me.

We arent talking about Palmer.

[ludo21]

Ha, look at Palmer and how he's adjusting. Looks to be just fine to me.


Palmer is a prototypical QB, he looks good. Leinart should be fine also IMO, showed a lot of character by staing in school. Altho i mightof done the same thing considering he only has like 1 class and parties all day.

Shockley looks good tho, as does Marcus Vick.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

i dont know, i live in SOCAL and we all know he loves the college game, i dunno if he can adjust to the NFL. Either way hes too high for us and too much money. Im still banking on Shockley in late first round or even second round.

Shockley is pretty good, but I doubt he is drafted on the first day.

[Lidderer]

Ha, look at Palmer and how he's adjusting. Looks to be just fine to me.


This is lazy support. Also, let's wait a year and draft Sam Keller please.

[DBroncos4life]

We arent talking about Palmer.


Same mold of QB. Same coaching, same attitude towards the game. All the more reason to believe that Leinart will adjust to the NFL just fine. Leinart has his head on straight, leads very well on the field, makes good throws, doesn't take the sack or make dumb mistakes. All in all I think you have the making for a franchise QB...ala...Manning.

[Ray Finkle]

Same mold of QB. Same coaching, same attitude towards the game. All the more reason to believe that Leinart will adjust to the NFL just fine. Leinart has his head on straight, leads very well on the field, makes good throws, doesn't take the sack or make dumb mistakes. All in all I think you have the making for a franchise QB...ala...Manning.


He doesn't have the same arm strength that Palmer has though....I see that as his big negative.

[DBroncos4life]

This is lazy support. Also, let's wait a year and draft Sam Keller please.



I'm pretty sure I have had 1000's of posts about Leinart and no real need to post the same thing over and over and over again.

[Lidderer]

I'm pretty sure I have had 1000's of posts about Leinart and no real need to post the same thing over and over and over again.

fair enough, but that doesn't mean you should start posting lame defenses either.

More importantly though, DBronc: SAM KELLLER! Am I right?

[DBroncos4life]

He doesn't have the same arm strength that Palmer has though....I see that as his big negative.


He still makes the big play. So he can't throw as far as Palmer can he still gets it done. Brady doesn't have a big arm either but I don't think anyone will hold that against him now will they. The guy is completing 70% of his passes and has a 200 rating. Thats a far cry from what we are used to with Plummer.

[Lidderer]

He still makes the big play. So he can't throw as far as Palmer can he still gets it done. Brady doesn't have a big arm either but I don't think anyone will hold that against him now will they. The guy is completing 70% of his passes and has a 200 rating. Thats a far cry from what we are used to with Plummer.

I wonder what Plummer would've put up vs Hawaii, Arkansas, and Oregon.

[DBroncos4life]

fair enough, but that doesn't mean you should start posting lame defenses either.

More importantly though, DBronc: SAM KELLLER! Am I right?



Keller looks good, not much of a mover either but he doesn't seem to take sacks so he must have a quicker release, which is a plus.

[DBroncos4life]

I wonder what Plummer would've put up vs Hawaii, Arkansas, and Oregon.


You really think he could touch Leinarts stats???

[DBroncos4life]

I wonder what Plummer would've put up vs Hawaii, Arkansas, and Oregon.


Also its not like Temple, Oregon State, and Northwestern rock either. LSU is good though.

[Lidderer]

Keller looks good, not much of a mover either but he doesn't seem to take sacks so he must have a quicker release, which is a plus.


Ya, he does have that in-the-pocket mobility that's similar to the way Brady can make one little side-step buy him that much more time. He's not exactly a runner by any means, but he does have slight adjustments that buy him a good amount of time. The throwing technique is a bit odd--visually at least--but not prone to batted balls or anything really. He also has that fiery approach that endears Plummer to his teammates and certain blindered fans. So taking that into account as well as his effectiveness means that he has a good chance to make some headway in the NFL.

Or, I hope so anyway.

[Lidderer]

Also its not like Temple, Oregon State, and Northwestern rock either. LSU is good though.


461 vs LSU, 35 of 56, 4 TDs.

[DBroncos4life]

461 vs LSU, 35 of 56, 4 TDs.


Still I think you are nuts for questioning what Leinart can do. Look up the stats of the NC game. Also looks like we get to see both QBs going head to head next week as well.

I might add that Oregon was ranked number 24 when USC played them. Also USC has a tough game against number 16 ND, number 13 Cal and and 25 UCLA. Leinart has lots of time to prove himself....even though I don't know why he needs too.

[Lidderer]

Still I think you are nuts for questioning what Leinart can do. Look up the stats of the NC game. Also looks like we get to see both QBs going head to head next week as well.

I might add that Oregon was ranked number 24 when USC played them. Also USC has a tough game against number 13 ND, number 13 Cal and and 25 UCLA. Leinart has lots of time to prove himself....even though I don't know why he needs too.

It's not that I don't think Leinhart can perform at a high level, all I was carping about was the mention of Palmer, as though his success somehow validates the likelihood of Leinhart's potential. Nothing more really.

That said, Leinhart's a top 5 pick--a place we likely won't be drafting--and will command a lot of money and arrive with an equal amount of pressure(this latter issue probably is worthless actually). Whereas Keller will be a late 1st-to-mid-2nd round QB next year. I'm not sure I see a significant difference just yet. Of course Leinhart has proven himself over a good stretch, where Keller has only won the Sun Bowl and offensively crushed every opponent he's faced in his brief tenure. It's just that his effectiveness seems unlikely to let-up.

Let's also maybe factor in supporting casts, as every USC player has a legit shot at the nfl(career 3rd stringer Matt Cassel was an nfl pick this year, for f sakes), whereas outside of Hagan, Love, and Zach Miller(who has been absent the past 2 weeks), ASU probably has no nfl prospects.

I expect USC to thrash ASU next week, and Leinhart's numbers will look great, but just watch Keller and tell me he doesn't look Matt's equal.

[Play2win]

He doesn't have the same arm strength that Palmer has though....I see that as his big negative.
He has better accuracy. Although both possess very good accuracy, Leinart has elite accuracy. IMHO

[24champ]

Im not knocking lienart but he doesnt seem fast enough for the bootleg or play action.

[2KBack]

It's not that I don't think Leinhart can perform at a high level, all I was carping about was the mention of Palmer, as though his success somehow validates the likelihood of Leinhart's potential. Nothing more really.

That said, Leinhart's a top 5 pick--a place we likely won't be drafting--and will command a lot of money and arrive with an equal amount of pressure(this latter issue probably is worthless actually). Whereas Keller will be a late 1st-to-mid-2nd round QB next year. I'm not sure I see a significant difference just yet. Of course Leinhart has proven himself over a good stretch, where Keller has only won the Sun Bowl and offensively crushed every opponent he's faced in his brief tenure. It's just that his effectiveness seems unlikely to let-up.

Let's also maybe factor in supporting casts, as every USC player has a legit shot at the nfl(career 3rd stringer Matt Cassel was an nfl pick this year, for f sakes), whereas outside of Hagan, Love, and Zach Miller(who has been absent the past 2 weeks), ASU probably has no nfl prospects.

I expect USC to thrash ASU next week, and Leinhart's numbers will look great, but just watch Keller and tell me he doesn't look Matt's equal.

I was going to mention Keller, but thought I would be laughed off the board. I knew nothing of this kid until the sunbowl, and he just keeps getting better. I'm a student at ASU, and I never thought Andrew Walter would be forgotten so fast. Keller is pure competitor, he slides pretty well in the pocket, and faces down a rush without so much as a flinch. He also has nice velocity and pretty good accuracy. Also it's should be noted that LSU was ranked #5 when they played ASU, and if the special teams didn't fall apart ASU could have won that game by 2 scores.