PFT-Coyer close to being fired

[Denver724]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

COYER WAS CLOSE TO BEING FIRED

Word out of Denver is that defensive coordinator Larry Coyer was dangerously close to getting the boot entering the team's Week Two game against the Chargers, and that the team's stunning second-half performance on defense not only saved the day for the Broncos but also saved Coyer's butt.

Coyer's play-calling in the season-opening blowout loss to the Dolphins sparked a near-mutiny in the locker room, with multiple players openly complaining about Coyer's tactics and strategies. We posted a couple of stories on this topic last week, and The Denver Post published an article on Sunday regarding the internal dissatisfaction with Coyer.

Whether Coyer's performance against the Bolts was a Band-Aid or proof of a long-term change remains to be seen. For now, though, Coyer will get the chance to continue.

And the fact that Coyer was close to getting the ax suggests to us that head coach Mike Shanahan realizes that he can't continue to tread water and remain employed indefinitely.

[Mile High Shack]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

COYER WAS CLOSE TO BEING FIRED

Word out of Denver is that defensive coordinator Larry Coyer was dangerously close to getting the boot entering the team's Week Two game against the Chargers, and that the team's stunning second-half performance on defense not only saved the day for the Broncos but also saved Coyer's butt.

Coyer's play-calling in the season-opening blowout loss to the Dolphins sparked a near-mutiny in the locker room, with multiple players openly complaining about Coyer's tactics and strategies. We posted a couple of stories on this topic last week, and The Denver Post published an article on Sunday regarding the internal dissatisfaction with Coyer.

Whether Coyer's performance against the Bolts was a Band-Aid or proof of a long-term change remains to be seen. For now, though, Coyer will get the chance to continue.

And the fact that Coyer was close to getting the ax suggests to us that head coach Mike Shanahan realizes that he can't continue to tread water and remain employed indefinitely.

PFT is always wrong

or at least that is what we heard last week............right? :hitself:

I doubt he was close to being fired, but obviously there are some problems if defensive players are complaining about him

[fontaine]

PFT is always wrong

or at least that is what we heard last week............right? :hitself:

I doubt he was close to being fired, but obviously there are some problems if defensive players are complaining about him

I wouldn't be surprised.

Why else did Shanahan bring in a former DC in Slowik? At this stage, nothing this team does would surprise me given the Gibbs screwup last season.

Also, given the amount of talent we have on D then why wouldn't we expect a great Defense?

The way I see it, Jax was able to virtually shut down Manning and co. and when was the last time you heard about their shut down CB or the Jags elite trio of LBs who could be the best in the league? The only two studs in that defense are their two interior DTs and our DL seems to be poised for big things. So hell yes, I expect a lot more from out D, especially when we play another high octane offense.

Most of us here would say Denver's D > Jag's D so no doubt about it, the 2nd half performance against San Diego SHOULD be the norm when playing at home and if we can't get that out of Coyer after the end of the season then I think Coyer himself will admit he has failed.

[Mile High Shack]

I wouldn't be surprised.

Why else did Shanahan bring in a former DC in Slowik? At this stage, nothing this team does would surprise me given the Gibbs screwup last season.

Also, given the amount of talent we have on D then why wouldn't expect a great Defense?

The way I see it Jax was able to virtually shut down Manning and co. and when was the last time you heard about their shut down CB or the Jags elite trio of LBs who could be the best in the league? The only two studs in that defense are their two interior DTs and our DL seems to be poised for big things. So hell yes, I expect a lot more from out D, especially when we play another high octane offense.

anytime we lose this year though remember

it's always the offenses fault

[NaptownChief]

anytime we lose this year though remember

it's always the offenses fault


Well it will be somebody's fault other than Shanaplan that is for sure.

[Saulbadguy]

PFT=Worthless.

[bendog]

sort of wish we'd grabbed this guy when GB fired him two years ago, though

http://www.atlantafalcons.com/team/coachbio.jsp?id=1916

I notice they hired Rich McKay after TB fired him too.

[fontaine]

anytime we lose this year though remember

it's always the offenses fault

As long as our offense can sustain long drives and keep the games close, then hell yes, I fully expect our D to step up and be counted.

I've heard FAR TOO MUCH hype all offseason about our great LBs, how DJ will shift over to the strong side no problem, how the Browncos are playing so well, how well the rookie CBs are doing, etc etc. So as far as I'm concerned they've talked up the defense all offseason. It's now time to deliver or get the hell out.

[Mile High Shack]

PFT=Worthless.

I use to think so too

but they have nailed the last 2 stories about Denver so far

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Ludicrous.

[bloodsunday]

I wouldn't be surprised.

Why else did Shanahan bring in a former DC in Slowik? At this stage, nothing this team does would surprise me given the Gibbs screwup last season.

Also, given the amount of talent we have on D then why wouldn't we expect a great Defense?

The way I see it, Jax was able to virtually shut down Manning and co. and when was the last time you heard about their shut down CB or the Jags elite trio of LBs who could be the best in the league? The only two studs in that defense are their two interior DTs and our DL seems to be poised for big things. So hell yes, I expect a lot more from out D, especially when we play another high octane offense.

Most of us here would say Denver's D > Jag's D so no doubt about it, the 2nd half performance against San Diego SHOULD be the norm when playing at home and if we can't get that out of Coyer after the end of the season then I think Coyer himself will admit he has failed.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fontaine again.

Despite playing only one horrific quarter in Miami (with injuries) and one sub-par one against San Diego, this D was underperforming IMO. They have the talent to be a better unit especially against inferior O's (Miami) and at home. The bar should be higher for this D and it will have to be for this season to be a good one. Quit with the gimicks and start playing in your face defense.

[bloodsunday]

As long as our offense can sustain long drives and keep the games close, then hell yes, I fully expect our D to step up and be counted.

I've heard FAR TOO MUCH hype all offseason about our great LBs, how DJ will shift over to the strong side no problem, how the Browncos are playing so well, how well the rookie CBs are doing, etc etc. So as far as I'm concerned they've talked up the defense all offseason. It's now time to deliver or get the hell out.
I agree with you again. And I would add to that drafting and FA acquisitions suggest this team is expecting more out of its defense. I do think we are lacking a top-notch D coordinator to put us over the top. A LeBeau, a Gregg Williams, someone with credentials. Maybe if Dom Capers gets the ax he'll be interested in being a DC, although Houston has struggled under his direction.

[Tombstone RJ]

I use to think so too

but they have nailed the last 2 stories about Denver so far

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.

[fontaine]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to fontaine again.

Despite playing only one horrific quarter in Miami (with injuries) and one sub-par one against San Diego, this D was underperforming IMO. They have the talent to be a better unit especially against inferior O's (Miami) and at home. The bar should be higher for this D and it will have to be for this season to be a good one. Quit with the gimicks and start playing in your face defense.

Hey the way I call it, you are judged by what you do with what you've got.

There are other defenses that have argueably less talent than ours (at least on paper), Cincy, Skins, Jags, yet that doesn't stop them from playing great D. I'm not saying this applies now, but at the end of the season when we can take full stock of how the team did.

I think Coyer can build on the performance of the 2nd half against San Diego, but I'm sick of hearing about it, I just want to see the Defense do it again and again.

[westcliffe]

Originally posted by fontaine
Hey the way I call it, you are judged by what you do with what you've got.

There are other defenses that have argueably less talent than ours (at least on paper), Cincy, Skins, Jags, yet that doesn't stop them from playing great D. I'm not saying this applies now, but at the end of the season when we can take full stock of how the team did.

I think Coyer can build on the performance of the 2nd half against San Diego, but I'm sick of hearing about it, I just want to see the Defense do it again and again

Agreed, especially the part about this applying at the end of the season. Unless it gets really bad, I can't see a DC being fired this early in the season.

[westcliffe]

Heck, Shanahan stuck through the whole season with Ray Rhodes, he will with Coyer.

[bloodsunday]

There are other defenses that have argueably less talent than ours (at least on paper), Cincy, Skins, Jags, yet that doesn't stop them from playing great D. I'm not saying this applies now, but at the end of the season when we can take full stock of how the team did.
Ironically Cincy is doing it with a few Bronco-castoffs. Although I do think James is a pretty good corner and a guy Denver would have liked to have held on to, he's no Bailey. They get by with lesser corners by pressuring the QB, as I have suggested this team should do. Instead, we draft 3 DBs a year.

I think Coyer can build on the performance of the 2nd half against San Diego, but I'm sick of hearing about it, I just want to see the Defense do it again and again.
Defense is about pressure and attitude and I don't think this team has quite figured that out. They played that way in the second half against San Diego, but other than its been missing even in 3 pretty good quarters of football against Miami.

[bronco militia]

Heck, Shanahan stuck through the whole season with Ray Rhodes, he will with Coyer.


I wouldn't be surprised either way....I thought the Slowik hiring was fishy to begin with and the PFT article followed by the DPO article on Sunday only support our suspicions.

[bloodsunday]

Agreed, especially the part about this applying at the end of the season. Unless it gets really bad, I can't see a DC being fired this early in the season.
Who's out there that could help? No offense to Slowick (the logical interim candidate) but he didn't exactly light it up in Green Bay last season. Bates would have been a nice offseason acquisition.

[yavoon]

Ironically Cincy is doing it with a few Bronco-castoffs. Although I do think James is a pretty good corner and a guy Denver would have liked to have held on to, he's no Bailey. They get by with lesser corners by pressuring the QB, as I have suggested this team should do. Instead, we draft 3 DBs a year.


Defense is about pressure and attitude and I don't think this team has quite figured that out. They played that way in the second half against San Diego, but other than its been missing even in 3 pretty good quarters of football against Miami.

pressure is not the end all u think. good coverage is a lot more consistant than hoping to get in the qb's face everytime. pressure still rocks but I actually prefer good coverage and creativity upfront. then poor coverage and bulls up front.

[watermock]

Altho PFT seeths with hatred anything Bronco, he was right about Clarett, and evidently, there was some dissention after Miami as well, which is understandable. Even with corners depleted and Dayne inactive, we shouldn't of let what I consider an inferior offense lay 37 on us.

A couple qualifiers in Coyer's defense however. First, our secondary was totally depleted with a some inactives that would of played. Sam Brandon at corner isn't exactly exciting, altho he did hold up. Second, the field temperature was117 degrees and naturally, Miami wore white, while we played that very dark blue, and of course, Miami took the cooler sideline. I also didn't see very many coolspot fans on our sideline. Someone said there was only one. Yeah, Miami had to play in similar conditions but you can't overestimate the difference being acclimated to that heat/humidity/brutal sun makes.

Anderson went out with a rib injury, Q had been cut and Dayne was inactive. So...it's not like the D was getting any help from the offense with all those 3 and outs in that heat.

Finally, while Ferret was hot at QB, Plummer didn't complete a pass till the second quarter and clearly struggled.

I think both Champ at at least D-Will both have the speed and toughness to play man and really let the defense get agressive.

[kent156]

i think coyer and company have to realize every QB isn't peyton and trying to confuse every QB isn't going to work you have to just bring it sometimes, but will see how this plays out.

[yavoon]

i think coyer and company have to realize every QB isn't peyton and trying to confuse every QB isn't going to work you have to just bring it sometimes, but will see how this plays out.


I thot coyer was going to be fired because of him being uncreative.

[Taco John]

I use to think so too

but they have nailed the last 2 stories about Denver so far



They have?

[Mile High Shack]

They have?

Maurice Clarett

and then players grumblign about Coyer after the Miami game

Post didn't break that story till the Sunday morning edition

[bloodsunday]

pressure is not the end all u think. good coverage is a lot more consistant than hoping to get in the qb's face everytime. pressure still rocks but I actually prefer good coverage and creativity upfront. then poor coverage and bulls up front.
You seen the Steelers DBs? How about NEs? Is it a conincidence that 3 of Philly's DBs were Pro-Bowlers and they get some of the most consistent pressure in the league?

It's sort of like trotting a good RB out behind a poor offensive line... but we all know how that's working.

[bloodsunday]

Altho PFT we shouldn't of let what I consider an inferior offense lay 37 on us.
The offense only put 27 on us... 34 total.

[yavoon]

You seen the Steelers DBs? How about NEs? Is it a conincidence that 3 of Philly's DBs were Pro-Bowlers and they get some of the most consistent pressure in the league?

It's sort of like trotting a good RB out behind a poor offensive line... but we all know how that's working.

both are important. and I'm not advocating having a line as crappy as denver's. but if u do try to live off of ur pressure it will get blocked and u will get bombs thrown agianst u. remember no matter how good the dline, unless u have dwight freeney most of the time the olineman wins.

[Dudeskey]

the team's stunning second-half performance on defense not only saved the day for the Broncos but also saved Coyer's butt.

Wow, if thats the case, the micromind was already looking for a scapegoat. If he wanted it to look right, he should've put Kubiak on the hotseat since it really was the vanilla playcalling on offense that failed the team in that game...™

[Rascal]

The urinal said it best.

[bloodsunday]

Wow, if thats the case, the micromind was already looking for a scapegoat. If he wanted it to look right, he should've put Kubiak on the hotseat since it really was the vanilla playcalling on offense that failed the team in that game...™
Nah... this team is being built to win with D. They are running a Vanilla offense because they have pretty Vanilla players... especially the interior of the OL and the QB.

[kent156]

I thot coyer was going to be fired because of him being uncreative.


all this dropping a dlineman into coverage is for peyton rushing 3 or 2 and dropping everyone else into coverage is for peyton and trying to copy the patriots. If the broncos did what they did to brees in the second half to peyton the score might be a lot different.

I agree it seems coyer is not creative just using one type of defense sometimes isn't going to work you have to adjust and it seems he got the point at halftime.

[yavoon]

all this dropping a dlineman into coverage is for peyton rushing 3 or 2 and dropping everyone else into coverage is for peyton and trying to copy the patriots. If the broncos did what they did to brees to peyton the score might be a lot different.

I agree it seems coyer is not creative just using one type of defense sometimes isn't going to work you have to adjust and it seems he got the point at halftime.

really cuz the best peyton stoppers so far have all done it w/ coverage. I can think of one team off the top of my head that was sending lotsa blitzes at peyton, green bay. and he almost had a career half on them.

[-Slap-]

PFT is always wrong

or at least that is what we heard last week............right? :hitself:

I doubt he was close to being fired, but obviously there are some problems if defensive players are complaining about him
Players gripe after any embarrassing loss, especially in week one when expectations are so high.

[-Slap-]

Maurice Clarett

and then players grumblign about Coyer after the Miami game

Post didn't break that story till the Sunday morning edition
I just don't see a couple knuckleheads blowing off steam after a bad loss as a breaking story.

[BigPlayShay]

Wow, how often do you see a publication post a "I told you so" article. Sounds like they were reaching and then when a local paper reporter bought into thier crap they some how feel validated and decided to tell the world that they knew it all along.

Sounds like some posters on this board.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I'll say this much. If Shanahan is going to jettison another scapegoat this year, Coyer is more likely to get the axe than Kubiak. I don't think Shamaplan will ever fire Kubiak.

[Mile High Shack]

I just don't see a couple knuckleheads blowing off steam after a bad loss as a breaking story.

well there is something there if the Denver Post told a similiar story, just more indepth

[BigPlayShay]

well there is something there if the Denver Post told a similiar story, just more indepth

Are we certain that Thomas George didn't just read the PFT info and then start his questioning off with the players with "So, I talked with a few guys and they have said they are unhappy with Coyer's playcalling". He may not have even spoken to these other guys, but the players he was asking were under the impression he had and it blows up from there.

[Mile High Shack]

Are we certain that Thomas George didn't just read the PFT info and then start his questioning off with the players with "So, I talked with a few guys and they have said they are unhappy with Coyer's playcalling". He may not have even spoken to these other guys, but the players he was asking were under the impression he had and it blows up from there.

I go with the "where there is smoke there is fire" logic

[NFLBRONCO]

Slowik nice upgrade if they fire Coyer NOT.

[Taco John]

I just don't see a couple knuckleheads blowing off steam after a bad loss as a breaking story.



That's what I'm saying.

I think it's ridiculous to believe that Mike Shanahan would fire Coyer two games into a season. There's no precedent for such a thing.

I see this as PFT trying to get the most milage out of a nothing rumor.

[Mile High Shack]

That's what I'm saying.

I think it's ridiculous to believe that Mike Shanahan would fire Coyer two games into a season. There's no precedent for such a thing.

I see this as PFT trying to get the most milage out of a nothing rumor.

I agree, but obviously there are/were some problems on the defensive side of the ball, at least communication wise

[jonny1]

From the Post:

Added defensive co-captain and middle linebacker Al Wilson: "We love Coach Coyer and what he does and how dedicated to us he is. Does every man always agree with what every other man says? No. That's just being honest.

"But we all believe in what he's doing. We all showed that today."

Take that, PFT.

[DBroncos4life]

You seen the Steelers DBs? How about NEs? Is it a conincidence that 3 of Philly's DBs were Pro-Bowlers and they get some of the most consistent pressure in the league?

It's sort of like trotting a good RB out behind a poor offensive line... but we all know how that's working.


I have yet to see pressure from a passrush catch the ball.

[Clockwork Orange]

Well it will be somebody's fault other than Shanaplan that is for sure.

He's apparently made out of the same brand of teflon that Carl Peterson is. Only difference is that he actually delivered the goods once upon a time while Carl is in year 11 of his 5 year plan.

[bloodsunday]

I have yet to see pressure from a passrush catch the ball.
I have yet to see a DB cover an NFL receiver for 8 or 9 seconds. Without a pass rush you don't need good hands because the ball isn't going any where near your DB anyway. Didn't we prove that the past 3 season by leading the NFL in fewest picks?

[DBroncos4life]

I have yet to see a DB cover an NFL receiver for 8 or 9 seconds. Without a pass rush you don't need good hands because the ball isn't going any where near your DB anyway. Didn't we prove that the past 3 season by leading the NFL in fewest picks?



Well I've said along you need Both. Did you not see Fergy drop that pick? We blitzed and we forced Gus to throw the ball up and Fergy dropped it. Having a great passrush isn't going to make your DBs hands any better thats what I was trying to say.

[Taco John]

Are we certain that Thomas George didn't just read the PFT info and then start his questioning off with the players with "So, I talked with a few guys and they have said they are unhappy with Coyer's playcalling". He may not have even spoken to these other guys, but the players he was asking were under the impression he had and it blows up from there.



No. He was the PFT source. It's the same story coming from the same source... PFT just got a leak ahead of time and sensationalized it.

[Taco John]

I agree, but obviously there are/were some problems on the defensive side of the ball, at least communication wise



Yes but do you honestly believe Shanahan was considering firing another defensive coach one game into the season? Especially considering how terrible the offense has played...

I buy the fact that players were disappointed and voiced their disappointment. The rest seems like a bunch of sensationalistic mumbo jumbo.

[Broncoman13]

Old news now and YES PFT has nailed it twice in a row. I don't care what there track record has been up to this point. They nailed the Clarrett is gone early in preseason. They nailed that Javon Walker wouldn't hold out. They nailed the Moss for Coles trade. They nailed the Rod Gardner to Carolina trade/acquisition.

Yes mixed in there are the David Terrell will be the Pats 3rd WR stories as well as the Vikings will be the NFC Champs stories. As with everybody you have to take the good with the bad. Looking at SoCal's write up vs Miami you would've thought we would pound them. Doesn't make him any less knowledgable b/c he missed that one. PFT, like anybody else, is hit'n miss.

I happened to believe the whole story about Coyer the first time around... then it was greatly substaniated when the Post came out with the SAME story! Time to give these guys a little bit of credit. Not to say I believe everything they pipe out, but some of it is atleast gold plated.

[JCMElway]

I know PFT is yellow jouranlism at its finest, but is there any truth to the rumor that coyer is in trouble?

[Broncoman13]

I know PFT is yellow jouranlism at its finest, but is there any truth to the rumor that coyer is in trouble?


You'd have to go back and look at the articles written out of Denver last week.

I'm not sure he was in as much trouble as PFT suggests (being fired) but there were problems. A lot of it came down to the players being unhappy with the scheme and the constant belittling and professionalism of Coyer.

At halftime vs the Chargeless, Coyer went into the Locker room and told his boys that he believes in them. He didn't draw up plays or harp on the first half performance...he simply turned them loose and they responded. I don't know what would have happened to him, but I've got to wonder if he would have been flat out fired after the 2nd game of the season.

[Dudeskey]

I've got to wonder if he would have been flat out fired after the 2nd game of the season.

that would be a scary thought IMO. Imagine Bob Slowik as acting Defensive Coordinator- no friggin' way after the "job" he did in Green Bay...™

[Mile High Shack]

Yes but do you honestly believe Shanahan was considering firing another defensive coach one game into the season? Especially considering how terrible the offense has played...

I buy the fact that players were disappointed and voiced their disappointment. The rest seems like a bunch of sensationalistic mumbo jumbo.

no, that point I think they stretched the truth

it was probably more like his job at the end of the season is on the line, not now

[Ratboy]

We better pray we don't get embarrassed by Kansas City Chiefs on Monday Night Football, or someone will be gone.

[-Slap-]

I go with the "where there is smoke there is fire" logic
I go with the something to write about is better than nothing to write about logic.

[Taco John]

no, that point I think they stretched the truth

it was probably more like his job at the end of the season is on the line, not now


When a site is willing to stretch the truth on one point, I figure they're willing to stretch the truth on all points... Even when those points work in faver of my arguments.

[Broncoman13]

When a site is willing to stretch the truth on one point, I figure they're willing to stretch the truth on all points... Even when those points work in faver of my arguments.


I'm not sure whether Shanny would have got rid of Coyer before the season ends or not... you have to wonder though, if players lose confidence in the system and aren't playing up to their potential...drastic measures are necessary. Thankfully Coyer got his head out of his ass and said/did the right things at halftime. Saying he had faith in the players went a long way. When the players are frustrated and feel belittled a compliment goes a long way!

Also, if Coyer didn't feel he was in trouble he wouldn't have poored his heart out...he would have continued with the same ole. I think he was reading the writing on the walls.

[bendog]

Bring back gibbs and make dennison DC, problem solved.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Bring back gibbs .


After he quit on Shanhan twice and his kid gave away the game plan?

[bendog]

After he quit on Shanhan twice and his kid gave away the game plan?
It was a joke!

I do think, however, that shanny should have offered donatell the job two years ago ... but maybe coyer was on board as DC before GB fired him. GB made donatell the scapegoat for a front office that sucks

[bloodsunday]

After he quit on Shanhan twice and his kid gave away the game plan?
He quit on Atlanta as well.

[DB-Freak]

After he quit on Shanhan twice and his kid gave away the game plan?
I think he was being sarcastic.

No one in their right minds would just hand over the DC job to Dennison.

[bendog]

shanahan won't fire a guy two games into the season, so it's a fictional thread.

but a question: Did gibbs kid ever land another job after that bs he pulled here?

[bronco militia]

shanahan won't fire a guy two games into the season, so it's a fictional thread.

but a question: Did gibbs kid ever land another job after that bs he pulled here?

he's the D-Coord at Auburn

[bendog]

Ah tubberville's a snake too, good place for him to land

[Cito Pelon]

I'd like to see Coyer on the sideline, istead of the booth. As for saving his job last week, I don't know. The team absolutely needs (some) crushing D efforts this season, and they need excellent ST play also.

But - if I see a complete 3-phase effort, like we saw against SD, I'm a happy guy. Very heartening effort, a 3-phase effort. The O doing just enough, the D doing a lot, and the ST's doing a lot, that's what is going to build momentum, get some winning streaks going. If we see some spectacular unit play, one unit picking up the other after a bad series, we're going to see a happy locker room, happy fans, W's.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

It was a joke!




Sometime us old f**ts are a little slow :)

[Taco John]

Old news now and YES PFT has nailed it twice in a row. I don't care what there track record has been up to this point. They nailed the Clarrett is gone early in preseason. They nailed that Javon Walker wouldn't hold out. They nailed the Moss for Coles trade. They nailed the Rod Gardner to Carolina trade/acquisition.

Yes mixed in there are the David Terrell will be the Pats 3rd WR stories as well as the Vikings will be the NFC Champs stories. As with everybody you have to take the good with the bad. Looking at SoCal's write up vs Miami you would've thought we would pound them. Doesn't make him any less knowledgable b/c he missed that one. PFT, like anybody else, is hit'n miss.

I happened to believe the whole story about Coyer the first time around... then it was greatly substaniated when the Post came out with the SAME story! Time to give these guys a little bit of credit. Not to say I believe everything they pipe out, but some of it is atleast gold plated.



You can give them all the credit you want to. I still regard them as the World Weekly News of Football.

[bendog]

Sometime us old f**ts are a little slow :)
Some of the serious takes here should have given me pause and put a (-: sarcasm marker in there. :loopy:

[Atlas]

I wouldn't be surprised.

Why else did Shanahan bring in a former DC in Slowik? At this stage, nothing this team does would surprise me given the Gibbs screwup last season.

Also, given the amount of talent we have on D then why wouldn't we expect a great Defense?

The way I see it, Jax was able to virtually shut down Manning and co. and when was the last time you heard about their shut down CB or the Jags elite trio of LBs who could be the best in the league? The only two studs in that defense are their two interior DTs and our DL seems to be poised for big things. So hell yes, I expect a lot more from out D, especially when we play another high octane offense.

Most of us here would say Denver's D > Jag's D so no doubt about it, the 2nd half performance against San Diego SHOULD be the norm when playing at home and if we can't get that out of Coyer after the end of the season then I think Coyer himself will admit he has failed.

Jacksonvilles D is pretty damn good. Not only do they probably have the best Dline in the league they also HAD the best safties in the league with Donovan Darius and Deon Grant. Darius however is out for the season as of last week.

[DB-Freak]

Jacksonvilles D is pretty damn good. Not only do the probably have the best Dline in the league they also HAD the best safties in the league with Donovan Darius and Deon Grant. Darius however is out for the season as of last week.
They got a decent set of LBs too.

And their defense is physical as hell.

[Broncoman13]

They got a decent set of LBs too.

And their defense is physical as hell.



That's the key PHYSICAL!!! Our defense has the athletes to physically dominate. Obviously we have Ian Gold mixed in there, but he plays bigger than his size IMO. He isn't afraid to hit anything and will play physical football. It's up to Coyer to pull the reins off and let these guys do what they know. I'm scared to death we'll go back to the finesse game the 2nd we give up a TD. Let our defense be overagressive once and get beat and we'll be back to the same old psuedo prevent D...atleast that's my fear!

[DB-Freak]

That's the key PHYSICAL!!! Our defense has the athletes to physically dominate. Obviously we have Ian Gold mixed in there, but he plays bigger than his size IMO. He isn't afraid to hit anything and will play physical football. It's up to Coyer to pull the reins off and let these guys do what they know. I'm scared to death we'll go back to the finesse game the 2nd we give up a TD. Let our defense be overagressive once and get beat and we'll be back to the same old psuedo prevent D...atleast that's my fear!
I'm not sure if I would call our defense a physical one.

There's a difference being aggressive and physical.

Also trying to be physical and being physical. There's a difference between that IMO too.

[DB-Freak]

Aside from the scrubbish game against Denver and excluding the Pats D, The JAX kept the Colt's score down to 24 points....... Lowest in their regular season last season.

JAgs D aint no joke.

[Broncoman13]

I'm not sure if I would call our defense a physical one.

There's a difference being aggressive and physical.

Also trying to be physical and being physical. There's a difference between that IMO too.


I wouldn't call our defense physical either. What I'm trying to say is that they have the potential to impose their will. You witnessed it in the 2nd half. They aren't physical b/c the scheme dictates that they react to what the offense is doing ... rather than attacking!

[DB-Freak]

I wouldn't call our defense physical either. What I'm trying to say is that they have the potential to impose their will. You witnessed it in the 2nd half. They aren't physical b/c the scheme dictates that they react to what the offense is doing ... rather than attacking!
Actually, despite one of them articles they have out, the players who were interviewed on CBS 4 said they were starting to warm up to the scheme and they were too uptight at first. It's true Coyer decided to be a little more aggressive, but it was more like players stepping up. The scheme didnt seem to change too much.

And our defensive dominance actually started to show itself the last 5 minutes of the first half not just the second half.

[DB-Freak]

I wouldn't call our defense physical either. What I'm trying to say is that they have the potential to impose their will. You witnessed it in the 2nd half. They aren't physical b/c the scheme dictates that they react to what the offense is doing ... rather than attacking!
They aren't physical, because they dont have the players who are overpowering.

Courtney Brown and Lynch is the name that pops up right away.

[Atlas]

That's the key PHYSICAL!!! Our defense has the athletes to physically dominate. Obviously we have Ian Gold mixed in there, but he plays bigger than his size IMO. He isn't afraid to hit anything and will play physical football. It's up to Coyer to pull the reins off and let these guys do what they know. I'm scared to death we'll go back to the finesse game the 2nd we give up a TD. Let our defense be overagressive once and get beat and we'll be back to the same old psuedo prevent D...atleast that's my fear!

I'm really happy to see how physical Warren is. There is no finessa in that guy he is a beast. He really gets a good push.

[elsid13]

We would all know that Coyer is trouble when Shanahan start sitting in and "help" develop the defense game plans. That the method he took with Rhodes and I'm sure the road he would travel here.

[bendog]

The only thing that's concerned me are the zone blitzes early on. The dline has the physical ability to dominate most offensive lines. Why we dropped Ebaneazor into coverage in Mia ... well, it ruined my beer. I thought the general idea was to rush the base 4, mix up the coverages by moving champ, gold maybe Lynch around a little. Then on passing downs, go 3 dlineman and the predator, or even 2 dlineman, predator and DW and shoot one of the backers for a 5 man rush, or zone out predator and rush 4.

[DB-Freak]

The only thing that's concerned me are the zone blitzes early on. The dline has the physical ability to dominate most offensive lines. Why we dropped Ebaneazor into coverage in Mia ... well, it ruined my beer. I thought the general idea was to rush the base 4, mix up the coverages by moving champ, gold maybe Lynch around a little. Then on passing downs, go 3 dlineman and the predator, or even 2 dlineman, predator and DW and shoot one of the backers for a 5 man rush, or zone out predator and rush 4.
That's how Coyer started out with.

Then he said this season he will make the schemes more" complicated" to take better advantage of the players.

[rbackfactory80]

very true,we definitely did not beef up the line to drop those players back in coverage.

[DB-Freak]

very true,we definitely did not beef up the line to drop those players back in coverage.
Ekuban is hardly a beefed up player.

[bendog]

Ekuban is hardly a beefed up player.

I dunno. He's better than Marco Coleman. Ebeneazor is best at pass rush, but he's ok with run too. That one zone blitz pissed me off, and I figured if the game plan was stuff like that, it'd be a long nite. And it was. It's why I don't discount the stories of player .... discontent.

Not to bitch out Coyer cause IF the defense can pan out the way we hoped (knock on Champ's shoulder), then teams will do stuff like keep in backs or TE's to counter the 4 pass rush, because no defense can cover very long with these rules .... though the officials may still be giving NE a lot of latitude, I'm not sure. Maybe they're just that good, I dunno.

But once offenses make adjustments, then the zone blitz should be there because QBs will be messing up in their reads with guys moving around. But that zone blitz in the FIRST game .... Hell, I was mad, I can imagine the players' reactions. But I chalked it up to Coyer overcoaching, being hyped and all. I agree, he needs to be on the sideline and get an asst up there to take pics.

[DB-Freak]

I dunno. He's better than Marco Coleman. Ebeneazor is best at pass rush, but he's ok with run too. That one zone blitz pissed me off, and I figured if the game plan was stuff like that, it'd be a long nite. And it was. It's why I don't discount the stories of player .... discontent.

Not to b**** out Coyer cause IF the defense can pan out the way we hoped (knock on Champ's shoulder), then teams will do stuff like keep in backs or TE's to counter the 4 pass rush, because no defense can cover very long with these rules .... though the officials may still be giving NE a lot of latitude, I'm not sure. Maybe they're just that good, I dunno.

But once offenses make adjustments, then the zone blitz should be there because QBs will be messing up in their reads with guys moving around. But that zone blitz in the FIRST game .... Hell, I was mad, I can imagine the players' reactions. But I chalked it up to Coyer overcoaching, being hyped and all. I agree, he needs to be on the sideline and get an asst up there to take pics.

good post.

What I wanted to basically say was that Coyer didn't change his general scheme or gameplan at all. He just tweaked his playcalling alittle to be more aggressive and the players stepped up at the same time.

[bendog]

good post.

What I wanted to basically say was that Coyer didn't change his general scheme or gameplan at all. He just tweaked his playcalling alittle to be more aggressive and the players stepped up at the same time.

I thought he blitzed more and put the corners more in man. Maybe the game plan all along for SD was to inch Lynch up to stop LT. That's what I'd do. And make Breaze beat me, but bring some heat and leave the corners out there in man with just Ferguson deep, and hope DJ can take Gates.

But, and i gotta go get my kid, Shooty pretty much choked, as usual, after Champ had the pick. I only watched the film one time, and I didn't see the thing live. So. my comments were more about the MIa game.

[DB-Freak]

I thought he blitzed more and put the corners more in man.

Yea that was my point.

He started mixing it up in play calling.

[Cito Pelon]

Actually, despite one of them articles they have out, the players who were interviewed on CBS 4 said they were starting to warm up to the scheme and they were too uptight at first. It's true Coyer decided to be a little more aggressive, but it was more like players stepping up. The scheme didnt seem to change too much.

And our defensive dominance actually started to show itself the last 5 minutes of the first half not just the second half.

You mean like Veal stepping up when Warren hadn't, then Warren stepping up after Veal lit a fir under his ass?

[Atlas]

You mean like Veal stepping up when Warren hadn't, then Warren stepping up after Veal lit a fir under his ass?


How did you come up with this theory?? I hardly doubt Veal could light a fire under Warren's ass. I think Warren motivates himself just fine.

Like Warren would even know who Veal is!! LOL

[Cito Pelon]

How did you come up with this theory?? I hardly doubt Veal could light a fire under Warren's ass. I think Warren motivates himself just fine.

Like Warren would even know who Veal is!! LOL

Veal played a lot of snaps for Warren. Why, what was wrong with Warren?

[Northman]

I wouldn't be surprised.

Why else did Shanahan bring in a former DC in Slowik? At this stage, nothing this team does would surprise me given the Gibbs screwup last season.

Also, given the amount of talent we have on D then why wouldn't we expect a great Defense?

The way I see it, Jax was able to virtually shut down Manning and co. and when was the last time you heard about their shut down CB or the Jags elite trio of LBs who could be the best in the league? The only two studs in that defense are their two interior DTs and our DL seems to be poised for big things. So hell yes, I expect a lot more from out D, especially when we play another high octane offense.

Most of us here would say Denver's D > Jag's D so no doubt about it, the 2nd half performance against San Diego SHOULD be the norm when playing at home and if we can't get that out of Coyer after the end of the season then I think Coyer himself will admit he has failed.



i would go even further and say that the Colts defense is outplaying ours. held the Ravens to 7 ( not that incredibly hard ) points and the Jaguars to 3 i believe.

[gunns]

Coyer is close to being fired and Kubiak isn't????

[Kaylore]

I'm sorry, but most of this thread is a bunch of mental masturbation.

[Orange4ever]

We would all know that Coyer is trouble when Shanahan start sitting in and "help" develop the defense game plans. That the method he took with Rhodes and I'm sure the road he would travel here.

I didn't understand a damn thing you just said!! ???

[Taco John]

I totally buy that the players were frustrated. They deserved to be.

That said, I don't buy for a minute that Coyer's job was in jeopardy when Shanahan's offense is still out to lunch. There's no way I believe that Coyer was going to get fired in week two.

If the defense was holding the offense back, then it would be believable.

[Taco John]

I didn't understand a damn thing you just said!! ???


When Rhodes defense was struggling, Shanahan sat in on meetings and helped with the gameplan. It's an invalid position to take that it's the kiss of death, though, or else Kubiak would have been long gone by now.

[baja]

Altho PFT seeths with hatred anything Bronco, he was right about Clarett, and evidently, there was some dissention after Miami as well, which is understandable. Even with corners depleted and Dayne inactive, we shouldn't of let what I consider an inferior offense lay 37 on us.

A couple qualifiers in Coyer's defense however. First, our secondary was totally depleted with a some inactives that would of played. Sam Brandon at corner isn't exactly exciting, altho he did hold up. Second, the field temperature was117 degrees and naturally, Miami wore white, while we played that very dark blue, and of course, Miami took the cooler sideline. I also didn't see very many coolspot fans on our sideline. Someone said there was only one. Yeah, Miami had to play in similar conditions but you can't overestimate the difference being acclimated to that heat/humidity/brutal sun makes.

Anderson went out with a rib injury, Q had been cut and Dayne was inactive. So...it's not like the D was getting any help from the offense with all those 3 and outs in that heat.

Finally, while Ferret was hot at QB, Plummer didn't complete a pass till the second quarter and clearly struggled.

I think both Champ at at least D-Will both have the speed and toughness to play man and really let the defense get agressive.

good post mock,the heat was huge in that game and when Champ and Walls went out that killed us I'm suprised they didn't score 50.

[baja]

Veal played a lot of snaps for Warren. Why, what was wrong with Warren?

We like to rotate our 35 defensive linemen, so they stay fresh ya know... like in Miami.

[Merlin]

After he quit on Shanhan twice and his kid gave away the game plan?
Gave away the game plan? Could you or someone else elaborate?

Thanks,
Merlin

[-Slap-]

The way I see it, Jax was able to virtually shut down Manning and co. and when was the last time you heard about their shut down CB or the Jags elite trio of LBs who could be the best in the league? The only two studs in that defense are their two interior DTs and our DL seems to be poised for big things. So hell yes, I expect a lot more from out D, especially when we play another high octane offense.
Two interesting things about Jacksonville's defensive performance against Manning and Company. First, they spent much of the day only rushing three and dropping eight. A defensive scheme that's quite popular in these parts. Also, one of the trio of linemen frequently putting heat on Peyton was none other than Reggie Heyward.

[Atlas]

Gave away the game plan? Could you or someone else elaborate?

Thanks,
Merlin

The secondary coach for Denver was Alex Gibb's son who was the Oline coach of the Falcons. Rumor has it that the younger Gibbs threw the game for Daddy. He repeatedly put Herndon on Atlanta's top WR instead of Bailey. Shanny told him not to do it after Herndan was beat for a TD and the Gibbs did it againand again Herndan was beat for a TD.

Gibbs even admitted that he talked to his Dad the whole week of the game Something NONE ever does in the NFL. After the game Shanny was furious and fired Gibbs the next day.

[Merlin]

The secondary coach for Denver was Alex Gibb's son who was the Oline coach of the Falcons. Rumor has it that the younger Gibbs threw the game for Daddy. He repeatedly put Herndon on Atlanta's top WR instead of Bailey. Shanny told him not to do it after Herndan was beat for a TD and the Gibbs did it againand again Herndan was beat for a TD.

Gibbs even admitted that he talked to his Dad the whole week of the game Something NONE ever does in the NFL. After the game Shanny was furious and fired Gibbs the next day.
Thanks. I was aware of the family relationship and the outcome of Gibbs jr and Atlanta, but never connected the dots. I find it hard to believe he would consciously do it, but unconsciously I guess it is possible. I remember reading last year about Shanahan being careful about talking to his son prior to the TB game because the latter's job is to scout the opposition’s O.

Merlin

[Mile High Shack]

The secondary coach for Denver was Alex Gibb's son who was the Oline coach of the Falcons. Rumor has it that the younger Gibbs threw the game for Daddy. He repeatedly put Herndon on Atlanta's top WR instead of Bailey. Shanny told him not to do it after Herndan was beat for a TD and the Gibbs did it againand again Herndan was beat for a TD.

Gibbs even admitted that he talked to his Dad the whole week of the game Something NONE ever does in the NFL. After the game Shanny was furious and fired Gibbs the next day.

it wasn't that he talked to his dad

it's b/c he changed up the coverages after Coyer sent down a different coverage package and openly defied him

and you saw the result

[yavoon]

it wasn't that he talked to his dad

it's b/c he changed up the coverages after Coyer sent down a different coverage package and openly defied him

and you saw the result

I still think thats crap, unless I previously missed some more reputable confirmation this basically spread like wildfire on this forum for no apparent reason.

[Mediator12]

You'd have to go back and look at the articles written out of Denver last week.

I'm not sure he was in as much trouble as PFT suggests (being fired) but there were problems. A lot of it came down to the players being unhappy with the scheme and the constant belittling and professionalism of Coyer.

At halftime vs the Chargeless, Coyer went into the Locker room and told his boys that he believes in them. He didn't draw up plays or harp on the first half performance...he simply turned them loose and they responded. I don't know what would have happened to him, but I've got to wonder if he would have been flat out fired after the 2nd game of the season.

Do you believe everything you read? Especially when none of it was directly quoted? I do not take you for a mindless drone, but those comments are just what George and PFT WANT YOU TO BELIEVE. Nothing could be further than the truth and George out and Out lied twice in those artices. He never asked Coyer the Question about the defensive communication being Poor and if you read the quotes CAREFULLY their are no QUOTES over Coyer's Response of "NO".

Keep believing and commenting, that is your right. But I hope to God you have better anytical skills than that.

[Mediator12]

I still think thats crap, unless I previously missed some more reputable confirmation this basically spread like wildfire on this forum for no apparent reason.

It is not crap yavoon. It is what happened and it will never come out due to the politics of the situation. David Gibbs was fired for insubordination.

[yavoon]

It is not crap yavoon. It is what happened and it will never come out due to the politics of the situation. David Gibbs was fired for insubordination.

oh well thats amazing confirmation....haha. I was in the thread this started in and basically what happened is one person mentioned it and then everyone and their dog believed it instantly. and THEN conspiracy stuff like what u say started coming out. IMO thats not a very legit way for something to be true.

[RedskinBronco]

I really don't like Coyer. He saved his @$$ against the chargers, but of course it's always more about the players than the coach. Should they get embarrassed on national TV AT HOME, Coyer will be fired.

[Mediator12]

oh well thats amazing confirmation....haha. I was in the thread this started in and basically what happened is one person mentioned it and then everyone and their dog believed it instantly. and THEN conspiracy stuff like what u say started coming out. IMO thats not a very legit way for something to be true.

So was I yavoon. Believe what you want. If you think PFT and Thomas George have better access than I do, then that is your right.

I found out the information about two weeks later after Gibbs was fired. To my knowledge, neither has had that information or it would have been in print. They also have not broke the real story on Trevor Pryce so all I can say is that their sources are not very good.

[yavoon]

So was I yavoon. Believe what you want. If you think PFT and Thomas George have better access than I do, then that is your right.

I found out the information about two weeks later after Gibbs was fired. To my knowledge, neither has had that information or it would have been in print. They also have not broke the real story on Trevor Pryce so all I can say is that their sources are not very good.

I can only go with the info I got.