Coyer the Destroyer

[yerner]

Here's something interesting from the "gods" at profootballtalk.com



BRONCOS WANT TO BUCK COYER



We're hearing in the wake of the Denver Broncos' opening-day shellacking at the hands of the Miami Dolphins that the defensive players are fed up with defensive coordinator Larry Coyer.



A league source tells us that the defensive players view Coyer's schemes as being too simple and predictable, and that they are keeping the defense from reaching its potential.



The players think that they can be the best defense in the league. Though we're not quite ready to send them an engraved plaque bearing that sentiment, we'll agree that they have more talent than their performance against the Fins would suggest.



Case in point -- 426 yards surrendered to a team with (supposedly) a patchwork offensive line, including 275 yards passing from (supposedly) a journeyman quarterback.



One particular incident that caused the players to scratch their heads occurred when backup safety Sam Brandon, a fourth-round pick in 2002, was pressed into service following an injury to a cornerback.



The defense called by Coyer on the first play required Brandon to play man coverage against a receiver -- with no safety help.



So even though Coach Teflon might never have to go to the principal's office for anything other than another "attaboy" and/or a raise, Shanny could end up with a mutiny if Coyer doesn't start putting the X's in better position to bottle up the O's.

[Taco John]

eh... Pro Football Talk...

Nothing to see here...

[DB-Freak]

YOu know I remember the day when the players complained that the schemes they ran were too complicated.

This is not a team that can run complicated plays and schemes. What can you do if the damn players cant even execute simple plays.

[watermock]

PFT hates the Broncos.

[TheManeMan]

So...who would take his place, even though its from PFT??

Lets hope its not Slowik...

[DBroncos4life]

YOu know I remember the day when the players complained that the schemes they ran were too complicated.

This is not a team that can run complicated plays and schemes. What can you do if the damn players cant even execute simple plays.



Our blitzing sucks.

[watermock]

Kubiakwill be the new defensive coordinator.

[Taco John]

YOu know I remember the day when the players complained that the schemes they ran were too complicated.

This is not a team that can run complicated plays and schemes. What can you do if the damn players cant even execute simple plays.


I was just going to say the same thing... Prior to Coyer they were complaining that the schemes were too complicated and they weren't able to just react.

I don't know if I buy any of this anyway.

[Ratboy]

Bye Shanahan, Bye Coyer.

PFT is worthless anyways.

[DB-Freak]

Our blitzing sucks.
We have no one that can get off blocks properly.

I miss Romo somewhat for this.

[watermock]

this is all baloney. Denver was slow on D and that's bottom line, the offense was hoirrible.

[scorpio]

we NEED to hire Gregg Williams away from the Skins. That guy is money. He could even replace Shanahan when the time is right.

[DB-Freak]

I was just going to say the same thing... Prior to Coyer they were complaining that the schemes were too complicated and they weren't able to just react.

I don't know if I buy any of this anyway.
I'm sick of bull**** like this.

I realized a last few seasons ago that coaching wasn't the problem as much as the personel.

I realized we didn't have much real players playing in this team that can play football like ala lets say Bill ROmanski. Now thats a ****ing football player or the young Rod.

[Broncoman13]

eh... Pro Football Talk...

Nothing to see here...


Not so sure about that. You can see the players frustrations. Pryce has also made mention of not liking certain things. Also, PFT broke the Clarrett news almost two weeks before anybody else. Normally, I would dismiss PFT with a grain of salt, but lately they seem to be more hit than miss! If anything I like the pressure on Coyer. He has as much talent on defense as any team in the league...


All that being said, I still point to Shanny, Kubes, and the offense for the game Sunday. Even if Coyer were to have the perfect D it would be tough for them to make plays for 30 minutes in 3 quarters!!!

[DBroncos4life]

we NEED to hire Gregg Williams away from the Skins. That guy is money. He could even replace Shanahan when the time is right.


I don't think you can hire a guy out from under his contract.

[SoCalBronco]

To show you how stupid PFT is, notice how they fail to comprehend or acknowledge basic facts. They scratch their heads at Brandon in at corner, but if they had only done so much as watch the game they would have realized that at that point, Champ was injured and Walls as well as Darrent Williams were both out with cramps. The only corner left who was on the active roster for gameday was Foxworth and he was in there as the starter. There was no one else left at corner. As between the two remaining safeties on the bench, Brandon is obviously much better than Marques Anderson. These are basic facts that could be gleaned from watching the game and yet PFT simply has no awareness of them.

The problem ISNT Coyer or the Defense. They performed admirably. Coyer's defense got us 3 TOs and held Miami to a middling 6 points until the offense's ineptness and lack of ball control forced the defense out there after either 3 and outs or 4,5 or 6 play drives in the intense heat.

Idiots.

[watermock]

It wasn't the defense that let the team down.

[scorpio]

I don't think you can hire a guy out from under his contract.

A good lawyer can do anything :)

[DB-Freak]

I ****ing hate the talent talk.

I utterly despise it. Talent meaning physical tools? Yea then this team has it, but so does every other ****ing team.

For a such a talented team, they fail to execute even the simplest plays.

[DBroncos4life]

To show you how stupid PFT is, notice how they fail to comprehend or acknowledge basic facts. They scratch their heads at Brandon in at corner, but if they had only done so much as watch the game they would have realized that at that point, Champ was injured and Walls as well as Darrent Williams were both out with cramps. The only corner left who was on the active roster for gameday was Foxworth and he was in there as the starter. There was no one else left at corner. As between the two remaining safeties on the bench, Brandon is obviously much better than Marques Anderson. These are basic facts that could be gleaned from watching the game and yet PFT simply has no awareness of them.

The problem ISNT Coyer or the Defense. They performed admirably. Coyer's defense got us 3 TOs and held Miami to a middling 6 points until the offense's ineptness and lack of ball control forced the defense out there after either 3 and outs or 4,5 or 6 play drives in the intense heat.

Idiots.

It should have only been three but our "ball hawking" FS dropped that pick in the end zone.

[DB-Freak]

Not so sure about that. You can see the players frustrations. Pryce has also made mention of not liking certain things. Also, PFT broke the Clarrett news almost two weeks before anybody else. Normally, I would dismiss PFT with a grain of salt, but lately they seem to be more hit than miss! If anything I like the pressure on Coyer. He has as much talent on defense as any team in the league...


All that being said, I still point to Shanny, Kubes, and the offense for the game Sunday. Even if Coyer were to have the perfect D it would be tough for them to make plays for 30 minutes in 3 quarters!!!
Pryce not liking certain things?

Such as playing DE instead of DT, because he likes it?

Pryce what a joke. I hope we cut or trade this guy soon as possible.

[Taco John]

The problem ISNT Coyer or the Defense. They performed admirably.



I completely agree. I thought we looked great on defense up until the third quarter when our offense put them out on the island.

[Taco John]

I don't think you can hire a guy out from under his contract.


You can if you are offering him a promotion... That's how we stole Alex Gibbs off the Chiefs...

[Ratboy]

The problem lies with the offense.

Shanahan, Kubiak, Plummer, Our Line.. Pick one.

THe play and the playcalling of the offense was horrible.

[Broncoman13]

To show you how stupid PFT is, notice how they fail to comprehend or acknowledge basic facts. They scratch their heads at Brandon in at corner, but if they had only done so much as watch the game they would have realized that at that point, Champ was injured and Walls as well as Darrent Williams were both out with cramps. The only corner left who was on the active roster for gameday was Foxworth and he was in there as the starter. There was no one else left at corner. As between the two remaining safeties on the bench, Brandon is obviously much better than Marques Anderson. These are basic facts that could be gleaned from watching the game and yet PFT simply has no awareness of them.

The problem ISNT Coyer or the Defense. They performed admirably. Coyer's defense got us 3 TOs and held Miami to a middling 6 points until the offense's ineptness and lack of ball control forced the defense out there after either 3 and outs or 4,5 or 6 play drives in the intense heat.

Idiots.


Actually if you read it more closely the problem was putting Brandon in the game. They noted that due to injury they had to put him in at corner... the problem "according to the players" was that they put him in man-to-man coverage. I've got to admit, at that point I was pretty much pissed off and barely paying attention. Did anybody notice if Brandon was trying to play man coverage from CB?

[Sir Mawn]

I'm not happy with either side, but at least Shanahan has showed me aggressive, effective, sharp units on offense and that has NEVER happened under Coyer.

I blame the offense for this loss, but the lack of fire in game-planning, play-calling and execution on defense has to be a concern.

[watermock]

I have said the problem was Kubiak again and again and again. What do you want me to do? Grab the Model 12 and drive to Englewood?

[elsid13]

You can if you are offering him a promotion... That's how we stole Alex Gibbs off the Chiefs...


Gregg William's title is the assistant head coach and is in line to take over when Gibbs retires in two years. Gibbs loves him and so does danny boy Williams is not going anywhere. Next we be calling for Gunther.

[Broncoman13]

I completely agree. I thought we looked great on defense up until the third quarter when our offense put them out on the island.


We looked good on defense not great. We weren't getting pressure or sacks... gotta have one or the other!

I'm also tired of seeing us drop our best DL into pass coverage. I think that is rediculous! Left Trev rush the passer and cut the run first and re-act to the pass crap. I think that hurts our pressure a lot!!!

[El Guapo]

Actually if you read it more closely the problem was putting Brandon in the game. They noted that due to injury they had to put him in at corner... the problem "according to the players" was that they put him in man-to-man coverage. I've got to admit, at that point I was pretty much pissed off and barely paying attention. Did anybody notice if Brandon was trying to play man coverage from CB?


I was watching in a sports bar and i thought i saw him playing man coverage on at least two plays.

[DB-Freak]

I'm not happy with either side, but at least Shanahan has showed me aggressive, effective, sharp units on offense and that has NEVER happened under Coyer.

I blame the offense for this loss, but the lack of fire in game-planning, play-calling and execution on defense has to be a concern.
WOW.....................

[Broncoman13]

Next we be calling for Gunther.



TAKE IT BACK! :bash:

[yerner]

yeah, i was watching the Direct tv quick game this moring, i guess to kick myself in the groin, and there were two or three times I would say that Brandon was on his own. Not quite Deion like.

[DB-Freak]

We looked good on defense not great. We weren't getting pressure or sacks... gotta have one or the other!

I'm also tired of seeing us drop our best DL into pass coverage. I think that is rediculous! Left Trev rush the passer and cut the run first and re-act to the pass crap. I think that hurts our pressure a lot!!!
I thought we wanted some creativity man.

I see that with the Pats alot. Expect that team can perform and this team can't.

[watermock]

Brandon hadn't played corner since a sophmore in high school.

The mastermind left us with two RB and two RB.

[Broncoman13]

I was watching in a sports bar and i thought i saw him playing man coverage on at least two plays.


Tell me how that makes sense???

Let me put another spin on this... perhaps Coyer felt that he was actually asking Sam to do less by playing man coverage rather than occupying an unfamiliar zone? I'm reaching, but that's all I can think of.

[DB-Freak]

With Walls, Darrent, and Champ out, Brandon wasnt the only one who needed help.

Brandon held up better than thought though.

[DBroncos4life]

You can if you are offering him a promotion... That's how we stole Alex Gibbs off the Chiefs...


To what? Isn't he in charge of the whole D in Washington? What more could we give him here?

[Broncoman13]

I thought we wanted some creativity man.

I see that with the Pats alot. Expect that team can perform and this team can't.


It comes down to coaching. Saban is running the exact same defense as the Pats. He comes in and demands perfection. He's a coach that coaches to perfection as opposed to an opponents weakness. He comes out and says, if we run this play to perfection we will succeed. Pay attention to the details, do the little things well, and we will make plays. For whatever reason we don't have the intensity on offense. It's very similar to what Gibbs used to do with the OL. Coach to perfection...not your opponent.

[DB-Freak]

Yea we definitely want some fancy plays for creativity points and complicated zone plays with three of our best CBs out.

Hey, that would have been giving us point on presentation, because they at least were try to be creativity.

[Broncoman13]

To what? Isn't he in charge of the whole D in Washington? What more could we give him here?



HC/GM/HMFIC and whatever other hats Shanny is wearing!

[elsid13]

To what? Isn't he in charge of the whole D in Washington? What more could we give him here?


See post #28, unless you want him as head coach he isn't going anywhere. Remember what Bufflo looked like when he was there???

[Ratboy]

Wasnt Greg Williams the HC is Buffalo? No Thanks.

[Bronco9798]

My bitch with the Defense is the coverage by the secondary. We never bump the receivers at the LOS and are always playing off. Go back and watch the 1st quarter and watch Walls. It's a joke.

Making Frerotte look like an all pro isn't admirable either. The pass rush wasn't very good and Walls needs to learn to play the receiver at the line, not 10 yards deep. It's either poor coaching or poor play by Walls. Get up on the receiver and bump him off the line a few times and play a little aggresssive.

(12:48) G.Frerotte pass to M.Booker pushed ob at MIA 30 for 8 yards (L.Walls).

7:37) G.Frerotte pass to D.Boston ran ob at DEN 13 for 8 yards (L.Walls).

(2:58) (Shotgun) G.Frerotte pass to M.Booker to MIA 33 for 9 yards (L.Walls).

2:11) G.Frerotte pass to M.Booker to MIA 38 for 10 yards (L.Walls).

[Broncoman13]

Yea we definitely want some fancy plays for creativity points and complicated zone plays with three of our best CBs out.

Hey, that would have been giving us point us presentation, because they at least he was being creative.


I should have been more clear. Before all of our CB's went down is what I've been referring to. When it comes to put Sam in at CB...well I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Coyer. Like I said earlier, perhaps he was just trying to simplify for his sake?

[DB-Freak]

My b**** with the Defense is the coverage by the secondary. We never bump the receivers at the LOS and are always playing off. Go back and watch the 1st quarter and watch Walls. It's a joke.

Making Frerotte look like an all pro isn't admirable either. The pass rush wasn't very good and Walls needs to learn to play the receiver at the line, not 10 yards deep. It's either poor coaching or poor play by Walls. Get up on the receiver and bump him off the line a few times and play a little aggresssive.

(12:48) G.Frerotte pass to M.Booker pushed ob at MIA 30 for 8 yards (L.Walls).

7:37) G.Frerotte pass to D.Boston ran ob at DEN 13 for 8 yards (L.Walls).

(2:58) (Shotgun) G.Frerotte pass to M.Booker to MIA 33 for 9 yards (L.Walls).

2:11) G.Frerotte pass to M.Booker to MIA 38 for 10 yards (L.Walls).
None of our CBs arent good with bump and run as Mediator pointed out.

[scorpio]

If we're talking Head Coach I think we need to look at Gruden. Give him the chance to screw Al yet again. Our coaches seem to work well in that kind of atmosphere.

[Rock Chalk]

I hate PFT.

And while it said the players dont like Coyer, here's what *I* Dont like about Coyer.

The guy couldnt disguise a blitz or coverage scheme to save his life. If *I* Can tell when the god damn blitz is coming, dont you think NFL QBs who are trained to notice such things can?

We would do good for 2, maybe 3 plays, and then tank some big ass play. We played tough red zone defense, I admit, but god damn man, we gotta force a lot more three and outs on defense. This was ****ing Miami people! A crap o-line, an immobile QB in Frerotten, and one good receiver and a decent receiver and a decent TE. No true RB (and I think they did a good job shutting down Brown for the most part). And our defense only forced them to punt twice IN THE FIRST HALF!

I think Coyer knows defense, Im not knocking him. But I also think he doesn't know how to disguise his defense's well. Id like to keep Coyer around because he can make a l ot out of nothing, but we need someone else as well to come in and help him disguise what the hell is going on out there.

That being said, the offense is way more at fault for our loss than the defense is.

[Broncoman13]

I hate PFT.

And while it said the players dont like Coyer, here's what *I* Dont like about Coyer.

The guy couldnt disguise a blitz or coverage scheme to save his life. If *I* Can tell when the god damn blitz is coming, dont you think NFL QBs who are trained to notice such things can?

We would do good for 2, maybe 3 plays, and then tank some big ass play. We played tough red zone defense, I admit, but god damn man, we gotta force a lot more three and outs on defense. This was ****ing Miami people! A crap o-line, an immobile QB in Frerotten, and one good receiver and a decent receiver and a decent TE. No true RB (and I think they did a good job shutting down Brown for the most part). And our defense only forced them to punt twice IN THE FIRST HALF!

I think Coyer knows defense, Im not knocking him. But I also think he doesn't know how to disguise his defense's well. Id like to keep Coyer around because he can make a l ot out of nothing, but we need someone else as well to come in and help him disguise what the hell is going on out there.

That being said, the offense is way more at fault for our loss than the defense is.


Roger that!

[Bronco9798]

None of our CBs arent good with bump and run as Mediator pointed out.

Well that's nice. So let's lay back and get dinked and dunked for 10 yards all day. That's real nice knowing you have CB's that can't play bump and run.

[DB-Freak]

I should have been more clear. Before all of our CB's went down is what I've been referring to. When it comes to put Sam in at CB...well I'll give the benefit of the doubt to Coyer. Like I said earlier, perhaps he was just trying to simplify for his sake?
First our corners, I would hardly call them zone corners. Champ hardly, Walls definitely not, and Williams not really and not only that he is a rookie.

John Lynch and Nick Ferguson? Hardly.

Coyer said he would finally complicate the defense after last season it's more than obvious we dont have the players to run that kind of schemes.

[Sir Mawn]

WOW.....................

Coyer has a fiery personality and is quite intense. HE sells himself as a true leader and he might be. But his schemes lack imagination. Translation? padded stats but no passrush and no turnovers. To me, no matter who's on the field, we don't generate any pass-rush! The exact opposite of our "plug and play" running game.

Shanahan's has been known for his brilliant schemes on offense (granted play-calling and gameplans have been quite bad recently and Kubiak has never been anything close to brilliant)

So in the end, Coyer to me hasn't proven anything. Shanahan's a two-time Superbowl coach and a very successful tactician (although that doesn't excuse the poor job he's done recently). I hope this clarifies my point.

[DB-Freak]

The so called creative and complicated coaches have been fired from this place and they were quite good co-ordinators.

And I look at this team and realize wow who do we really have that performs great consistently anymore?Not only that regulars guys who perform consistently?

Coyer came into reign, because the defense wanted a simpler scheme. Apparently, they cant do **** in it either.

[DB-Freak]

But his schemes lack imagination. Translation? padded stats but no passrush and no turnovers. To me, no matter who's on the field, we don't generate any pass-rush!

Look at the chiefs and the Colts as one of them examples. You call their D great? They fit your "rush and turnover" mantra pretty well and what?

Second about the pass rush, you should see who we exactly had when we couldnt provide good pass rush.

[24champ]

If we're talking Head Coach I think we need to look at Gruden. Give him the chance to screw Al yet again. Our coaches seem to work well in that kind of atmosphere.


rep i mentioned that earlier today, he has a ring too.

[Rock Chalk]

Im not buying on the Chucky business.

Wish we could have snagged Romeo Crennell.

[Broncoman13]

Bottom line, it's premature to talk about any of this. I don't want to see us change coaches right now. Not Coyer, not Shanny, and no Kubes. Now isn't the time. We're in this for the long haul with those coaches. I'll support them the best I can, but a day after a tough loss...well I can't be easy on them right now!

[HEAV]

OH come on Coyer has been great! I mean Look at our sack numbers! Oops my bad....


What many are not seeing is that this my be Shanahan sacrificial lamb this year. He's dodged the ax many times by hacking off his D. Coordinator in the past. Or have we all forgotten?

A few more sackless games and look out Coyer.

[Ratboy]

I think alot of people here like Gruden. If he does well in Tampa Bay, I don't see him leaving.

[scorpio]

I think alot of people here like Gruden. If he does well in Tampa Bay, I don't see him leaving.


I don't know, Gruden has a pretty fair complexion. Florida sun must be murder on those freckles. I bet he would jump at the chance to move to Colorado.

[24champ]

I don't know, Gruden has a pretty fair complexion. Florida sun must be murder on those freckles. I bet he would jump at the chance to move to Colorado.

money talks....besides shanny would probably go to tampa too.

[scorpio]

money talks....besides shanny would probably go to tampa too.

That's probably true, his son is one of Gruden's assistant coordinators I think. Shanahan would probably enjoy Florida in his old age. Toss in a handful of magic beans and I think we might have ourselves a trade.

[SoDak Bronco]

I actually agree with this article. Watching Denver's D is really disappointing, they bring blitz, and hardly ever can get to the qb, even to cause pressure. When Denver is bringing a guy, everyone on offense knows it's coming. I know this is a copy-cat league, but watching some of the best defenses, especially the Pats, they mix and match their blitz's and you never know who is coming. When Denver brings Wilson, he is sitting in the hole pre-snap, and they can easily adjust and pick him up. They need to get rid of coyer and bring some imagination, these guys are way to quick, they should be popping in and out of the line, and keeping the offense off balance. To me it looks to predictable, and that is one reason we can't make up for a medicore d-line.

rackem'

[DBroncos4life]

I actually agree with this article. Watching Denver's D is really disappointing, they bring blitz, and hardly ever can get to the qb, even to cause pressure. When Denver is bringing a guy, everyone on offense knows it's coming. I know this is a copy-cat league, but watching some of the best defenses, especially the Pats, they mix and match their blitz's and you never know who is coming. When Denver brings Wilson, he is sitting in the hole pre-snap, and they can easily adjust and pick him up. They need to get rid of coyer and bring some imagination, these guys are way to quick, they should be popping in and out of the line, and keeping the offense off balance. To me it looks to predictable, and that is one reason we can't make up for a medicore d-line.

rackem'



Thats because they run a 3-4 and a 4-3. The best thing about a 3-4 is you never know which guy is coming.

[Jetmeck]

To show you how stupid PFT is, notice how they fail to comprehend or acknowledge basic facts. They scratch their heads at Brandon in at corner, but if they had only done so much as watch the game they would have realized that at that point, Champ was injured and Walls as well as Darrent Williams were both out with cramps. The only corner left who was on the active roster for gameday was Foxworth and he was in there as the starter. There was no one else left at corner. As between the two remaining safeties on the bench, Brandon is obviously much better than Marques Anderson. These are basic facts that could be gleaned from watching the game and yet PFT simply has no awareness of them.

The problem ISNT Coyer or the Defense. They performed admirably. Coyer's defense got us 3 TOs and held Miami to a middling 6 points until the offense's ineptness and lack of ball control forced the defense out there after either 3 and outs or 4,5 or 6 play drives in the intense heat.

Idiots.

Very well thought out, I agree. Offense screwed the pooch this time !

[GreatBronco16]

If we're talking Head Coach I think we need to look at Gruden. Give him the chance to screw Al yet again. Our coaches seem to work well in that kind of atmosphere.


That I will agree with. If Denver were to replace Shanny, I would want them to bring in Gruden. This guy doesn't take no sh*t from none of the players or coaches. He will be the first to jump in a players face for halfassing it and whatnot. I think Denver needs some fire at the HCing spot. So hire Gruden as the HC and keep Shanny as the OC. Hmmm, wonder how that would work out. I know Al Davis wouldn't like it.

[scorpio]

That I will agree with. If Denver were to replace Shanny, I would want them to bring in Gruden. This guy doesn't take no sh*t from none of the players or coaches. He will be the first to jump in a players face for halfassing it and whatnot. I think Denver needs some fire at the HCing spot. So hire Gruden as the HC and keep Shanny as the OC. Hmmm, wonder how that would work out. I know Al Davis wouldn't like it.

Maybe it's just me, but I could NEVER envision Shanahan taking a demotion. The man is a control freak, which is probably largely responsible for his success. Plus, there are still plenty of teams that would hire Shanny as a HC if he were fired here.

That said, I honestly don't see Shanahan leaving in the next 2 years.

[Ratboy]

We better get rid of Kubiak before Shanahan and Coyer.

If we have a losing record, i can see all 3 of their jobs on the line.

[GreatBronco16]

Maybe it's just me, but I could NEVER envision Shanahan taking a demotion. The man is a control freak, which is probably largely responsible for his success. Plus, there are still plenty of teams that would hire Shanny as a HC if he were fired here.

That said, I honestly don't see Shanahan leaving in the next 2 years.

Oh I don't see Shanny doing it either. But it would be nice if it happend IMHO.

[DB-Freak]

OH come on Coyer has been great! I mean Look at our sack numbers! Oops my bad....


What many are not seeing is that this my be Shanahan sacrificial lamb this year. He's dodged the ax many times by hacking off his D. Coordinator in the past. Or have we all forgotten?

A few more sackless games and look out Coyer.
http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=519441&postcount=22



Originally Posted by wabbit
You gotta be kidding me

The man loses Trevor Pryce, then Luther Ellis, then virtually all depth at CB

He's stabbed in the back by his own coaches, and left without the considerble talents of David Gibbs mid-season

...and he still manages the #4 ranked NFL defense

Yet, he should be dispatched with haste??

Boy, hope I never have to work for you


Seems like there is a tradition of blaming the Coordinators for things that are out of their powers such as the boss's incompetency to find players or mistakes and injuries........

O wait it is an annual tradition.

[watermock]

We need to bring in one of those Florida QB's. Ferrote or Greise...who did they play for?

[jayman_37]

To show you how stupid PFT is, notice how they fail to comprehend or acknowledge basic facts. They scratch their heads at Brandon in at corner, but if they had only done so much as watch the game they would have realized that at that point, Champ was injured and Walls as well as Darrent Williams were both out with cramps. The only corner left who was on the active roster for gameday was Foxworth and he was in there as the starter. There was no one else left at corner. As between the two remaining safeties on the bench, Brandon is obviously much better than Marques Anderson. These are basic facts that could be gleaned from watching the game and yet PFT simply has no awareness of them.

The problem ISNT Coyer or the Defense. They performed admirably. Coyer's defense got us 3 TOs and held Miami to a middling 6 points until the offense's ineptness and lack of ball control forced the defense out there after either 3 and outs or 4,5 or 6 play drives in the intense heat.

Idiots.
I think what they are saying they don't understand is that they put Brandon in man coverage rather with no help than complaining about him being in there

[anthonypacino]

The number one rule about coaching players and I know this because I have coached is you scheme to the talents of your team, you can't make a dog climb a tree. They don't play man that much because our DB's are not physical, despite Walls size he is poor in press coverage, he lacks the foot speed to recover if he blows the bump. our LB's don't blitz well they have not played in a 3-4 very much. It looks like a mistake letting Berry go, he was a real talent not a product of the scheme like many other former Broncos (Micheal Brooks, Allen Alderidge etc...) Coyer's responsability is to know his Defense's ability and come up with a scheme to best suit their talent, that is why when new coaches come in with some new hip scheme that has taken the NFL by storm that new team never succeeds, (Run and Shoot, multiple coaches with their version of the West Coast, Spurrier's Fun and Gun, Ray Roahdes D's) that is why Romeo got rid of these D-lineman. Instead of forcing these guys to try and play a scheme they would not succeed in and just cause pandemoiem for his whole tenure in Cleveland, he started from scratch bringing in and evaluating players that fit his plans. Our talent on D is what we have, and Coyer will have to scheme to fit that not the reverse, until the off season then he can do the same thing as Crennel. But right now Coyer is doing what he can with what he has.

[anthonypacino]

However motivation is another thing, You can have the right players, talent, skill, knowledge but if you can't inspire your players, if some of them are just there to collect a check (Pryce IMO) You can't get them to play with heart, and they have lost/never respected you, then it's time to leave or expect to get fired. I am not in the locker room I can't speak the mood of the team towards coaches, but I know the economics and politics of the game says you can fire one coach, you can't fire a defense. unforcently that happens more often than not.

[Vegas_Bronco]

Is it week 16 in here? Damn, look at shanny's record, look at his accomplishments and shut the hell up about firing him! If Coyer's plan is too simple, then just shut up and play hard, hell I didn't see Champ complaining after having an INT, forced fumble, and most of the tackles in the first half (yeah, he is held back I'd say). You guys are just amazingly stupid - its week 1 dumberasses and the defense was the only team we had for 45 minutes of the game, the boys had to have IV's after the game they were sooo gassed.

[watermock]

BRONCOS WANT TO BUCK COYER



We're hearing in the wake of the Denver Broncos' opening-day shellacking at the hands of the Miami Dolphins that the defensive players are fed up with defensive coordinator Larry Coyer.



A league source tells us that the defensive players view Coyer's schemes as being too simple and predictable, and that they are keeping the defense from reaching its potential.



The players think that they can be the best defense in the league. Though we're not quite ready to send them an engraved plaque bearing that sentiment, we'll agree that they have more talent than their performance against the Fins would suggest.



Case in point -- 426 yards surrendered to a team with (supposedly) a patchwork offensive line, including 275 yards passing from (supposedly) a journeyman quarterback.



One particular incident that caused the players to scratch their heads occurred when backup safety Sam Brandon, a fourth-round pick in 2002, was pressed into service following an injury to a cornerback.



The defense called by Coyer on the first play required Brandon to play man coverage against a receiver -- with no safety help.



So even though Coach Teflon might never have to go to the principal's office for anything other than another "attaboy" and/or a raise, Shanny could end up with a mutiny if Coyer doesn't start putting the X's in better position to bottle up the O's.

[OrangeShadow]

as far as coyer...two words


BOUT TIME

[listopencil]

"One particular incident that caused the players to scratch their heads occurred when backup safety Sam Brandon, a fourth-round pick in 2002, was pressed into service following an injury to a cornerback."



Sounds like some whiny little asswhipe is playing the blame game here. Just shut the **** up and play, bitches. Show some ****ing heart and the scheme will come together. Coyer's only mistake was assuming that you sacks of **** actually cared enough to show up last Sunday.

[Mediator12]

As far as this whole thread goes read this and think again:

Inept offense drives defense to exhaustion
By Mike Klis
Denver Post Staff Writer



To fully comprehend the gravity of the comment, some background must be reviewed.

Mike Shanahan is an offensive-minded coach who helped Steve Young win two NFL most valuable player awards and a Super Bowl in three years at San Francisco. Later, as the Broncos' head coach, Shanahan helped John Elway win Super Bowls in his final two years as quarterback.

This suggests Shanahan's offensive standards are higher than most. Now for his comment regarding the Broncos' offensive performance in their season-opening 34-10 loss Sunday to the Miami Dolphins.

"I was thinking about all my years as a head coach, and all my years as a coordinator," Shana- han said. "I don't know if I've ever had an offense that put as much pressure on a defense the way we did in that game."

Shanahan thought his team's offensive ineptitude led to the cramping problems that sidelined dehydrated cornerbacks Lenny Walls and Darrent Williams in the third quarter, and explained why the defense melted amid the stifling South Florida heat in the fourth quarter.

"I thought our team was in pretty good shape," Shanahan said, "but when you're three plays and out and the defense is on the field as much as they were ... We couldn't keep any drives going. And when you can't keep drives going, your defense is going to wear down sooner or later."

The defense held the Dolphins to six points at the half, 13 after three quarters, but didn't put up much fight in the fourth quarter, allowing two touchdowns.

However, safety John Lynch deflected blame from the Broncos' offense and put it right back on the defense.

"I had a lot of experience in Tampa where we had a putrid offense for a lot of years, and when we finally decided that it didn't matter what happened on the other side of the football, that's when you become not just good, but special," Lynch said.



Now, rethink all the absolute BS that has been Spouted in this thread. If you still want to blame the defense and Coyer then supply me your name in a pm so I can save time with you on ignore. Thank you.

[SoCalBronco]

Good post, Med. As i said earlier in the thread, this game had nothing to do with Coyer or the Defense. We held them to 6 points at the half and almost half of their yards came on a single reverse gimmick play. It was only in the second half when we didnt do jack on offense, which forced the defense out on the field for an inordinate amount of time in intense heat did the Dolphins start to take advantage.

[Kaylore]

Completely agree. No one can blame the defense. The offense didn't even show up and eventually the sun took its toll on the defense.

[Rascal]

Defense gets a pass...we will see how they do against a better offense in the Chargers. Hopefully our offense shows up and lets them get off the field for more then 90 seconds.

[ScottXray]

I give the D a pass too.
I am really wondering right now if our O is as bad as it looked? Obviously they got their hats handed to them. Either Miami is a lot better on D than anyone gave or is giving them credit for, or our O is terrible.

Other than a couple of plays it looked like Miami knew exactly what we were doing on every play. Almost like their coaches picked up a key of the play call. I've noticed that Jake tends to lick his fingers before a pass play. I wonder how many other things I haven't noticed?

Either way, this week will be an indicator of how this team and the coaches respond. If we lose this one I honestly think we may go 0-5 or 1-4 and dig a hole so deep we won't be able to get out of it. I hope I'm wrong. :charge:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Next we be calling for Gunther.

You can't have him. http://www.forumopolis.com/images/smilies/cloud9.gif

[Hulamau]

We have no one that can get off blocks properly.

I miss Romo somewhat for this.

Totally agree DB-Freak. It bugs the hell out of me to watch our D-line and LB's waltz five yards downfield locked together and talking smack with the opposing O-line and fullback while totally oblivious to where the damn ball is.

You'd think they got brownie points for how long they can tie up an O-lineman!

[anthonypacino]

You can't have him. http://www.forumopolis.com/images/smilies/cloud9.gif
Bob, not trying to knock your D coach but has anyone ever asked him why he wears those target shooting glasses? is just trying to style to the teams colors? or is there some meaning to the "madness"

[Hulamau]

[QUOTE=Mediator12]As far as this whole thread goes read this and think again:

Inept offense drives defense to exhaustion
By Mike Klis
Denver Post Staff Writer



I agree with this too Mediator, but even by late 1st quarter some of our D-lineman were sticking like glue to the fins O-lineman and they couldnt have been exhasted then, and I saw it happen repeatedly throughout preseason, but wrote it off as teh guys just going through vanilla packages and trying not to get hurt. Now I'm not so sure, we'll see what kind of effort they put out Sunday.

On the other hand, there is also no question that our vapid offense drove or whole defense into the dirt on Sunday with all those 3 and outs.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Bob, not trying to knock your D coach but has anyone ever asked him why he wears those target shooting glasses? is just trying to style to the teams colors? or is there some meaning to the "madness"

The theory is they increase the contrast in your vision. I guess it helps him see the field better.

[Bronco9798]

1st quarter drives:

13:18 1:57 MIA 25 4 25 yards Fumble
09:43 3:53 MIA 20 9 69 yards Field Goal
03:39 6:03 MIA 20 14 54 yards Field Goal

148 yards in the 1st quarter. Only 6 points but we gave up yards. 1 3 and out by the defense in the 1st half except for the Int. We made Gus look like an All-Pro. 24 - 36 for 275.

This was a total team loss which includes the defense. Nobody gets a pass in a loss like this.

[kent156]

"I had a lot of experience in Tampa where we had a putrid offense for a lot of years, and when we finally decided that it didn't matter what happened on the other side of the football, that's when you become not just good, but special," Lynch said.

so is that tells me coyer needs to come down to the field and not stay up in the booth wasn't monte kiffen (sp) a sidelines coach i think this defense needs that.

[fontaine]

I can understand everybody's frustration here with Coyer and the D because on the surface it looked like our blitzes were getting picked up and our DL didn't generate sacks.

But if you look closely at the game, you'll see that Miami was going max protect almost constantly. Their usual formation was Benson in the backfield with two wide which gave them 7 guys that hunkered down and were constantly there to pickup blitzes.

When you go max protect, it's very very hard to get to the QB blitz or no biltz. The payoff is though, that the offense has fewer options, the QB only has two targets and that's why Miami was held down to 13 points for three quarters after they got chance, after chance because our O handed the ball right back to them.

If our offense had scored just 10 points in the first half then it would have been a different ball game in the 2nd where Miami would have been forced to take more chances, get out of max protect and our D would have killed them.

Unfortunately, our offense choked. I can see Mike's point of view when he said that he's never seen an offense put the D under so much pressure. I agree with it. I'm glad Lynch is manning up and taking responsibility on D anyway.

I just hope to God that our offense and specifically Plummer can somehow overcome the fact that Defenses have him figured out and know if they stack the box, and force Plummer to throw, then he'll eventually crack.

[Bronco9798]

Here's my whole point. In a loss like this you blame everybody from the coaches to the players on both sides of the ball. The defense did a great job in the 1st half limiting Miami to 6 points after giving up 148 yards. They gave up yards but kept them out of the end zone.

When you're offense srtruggles like it clearly did in Miami you have to hope that your defense can somehow keep you in the game and they did for awhile. We did close the score to 20-10 in the 3rd quarter but Miami went after Walls and got it right back on that long TD pass.

But the offense shouldn't be blamed for Walls getting cramps and Champ getting hurt. Hell, it's Wednesday this stuff is all useless anyway now. It's time for the Chargers now. We're 0-1 and nothings going to change that.

[Mile High Shack]

I'm not sure why all the "can't touch coyer" is coming about

was the game mostly the offenses fault?

yes it was

but even in the 1st and 2nd quarter, if not for some great plays by Champ, they were driving on us and we still couldn't get to the QB and our corners were playing too far off.

Our offense sucked and was the reason we lost the game

but our defense does concern me a bit, it's like Alec said, their blitzing is probably the WORST in the league

[Mediator12]

Here's my whole point. In a loss like this you blame everybody from the coaches to the players on both sides of the ball. The defense did a great job in the 1st half limiting Miami to 6 points after giving up 148 yards. They gave up yards but kept them out of the end zone.

When you're offense srtruggles like it clearly did in Miami you have to hope that your defense can smehoe keep you in the game and they did for awhile. We did close the score to 20-10 in the 3rd quarter but Miami went after Walls and got it right back on that long TD pass.

But the offense shouldn't be blamed for Walls getting cramps and Champ getting hurt. Hell, it's Wednesday this stull is all useless anyway now. It's time for the Chargers now. We're 0-1 and nothings going to change that.

The offense Should be worried about 8-24 passing threw three Q's should it Not. They should be worried they were only Able to get 1-12 (8%) third down Conversions when that was a point of emphasis. They should be worried they were 1-4 in the Red Zone when that was a point of offseasson concern. They should be worried they had NO Offensive drives over 4 minutes in 14 possessions. They should be worried they averaged 4.7 plays a drive. They should be worried they averaged 2:43 TOP a drive. They should be worried they only produced 10 points off of FIVE TO's. They should be concerned they were not able to sustain ANY scoring drives WITHOUT Turnover's.

Blame is the wrong word entirely. Blame is a construct weak minded Culture and People use to shift the Onus OFF the Problem and cover their own asses at the expense of others. I never Blamed the Offense or Plummer for the loss, I simply am Horrified that others around here fail to see the Performance as ONE of the worst Offensive performances under Shanahan in his entire career. I also pointed out that Jake performed Horribly in both passing and Play assessment presnap.

Try this on for size, NFL teams that fail to Score more than 10 points LOSE 89% of the time. So that means the defense had to play a perfect game to cover up for their lack of scoring in order to have a chance. They did so for as long as they could then collapsed when the TOP 3 CB's were on the sidelines with various Injuries.

Yeah, on second hand Screw the Defense, The F****** did not play perfect and Hold the Dolphins to NINE points. Damn it. The Offense was so dominant that day and the Defense just screwed up. I mean they Did score 10 WHOLE POINTS in four Red zone Attempts :stupid:

[Bronco9798]

The offense Should be worried about 8-24 passing threw three Q's should it Not. They should be worried they were only Able to get 1-12 (8%) third down Conversions when that was a point of emphasis. They should be worried they were 1-4 in the Red Zone when that was a point of offseasson concern. They should be worried they had NO Offensive drives over 4 minutes in 14 possessions. They should be worried they averaged 4.7 plays a drive. They should be worried they averaged 2:43 TOP a drive. They should be worried they only produced 10 points off of FIVE TO's. They should be concerned they were not able to sustain ANY scoring drives WITHOUT Turnover's.

Blame is the wrong word entirely. Blame is a construct weak minded Culture and People use to shift the Onus OFF the Problem and cover their own asses at the expense of others. I never Blamed the Offense or Plummer for the loss, I simply am Horrified that others around here fail to see the Performance as ONE of the worst Offensive performances under Shanahan in his entire career. I also pointed out that Jake performed Horribly in both passing and Play assessment presnap.

Try this on for size, NFL teams that fail to Score more than 10 points LOSE 89% of the time. So that means the defense had to play a perfect game to cover up for their lack of scoring in order to have a chance. They did so for as long as they could then collapsed when the TOP 3 CB's were on the sidelines with various Injuries.

Yeah, on second hand Screw the Defense, The ******* did not play perfect and Hold the Dolphins to NINE points. Damn it. The Offense was so dominant that day and the Defense just screwed up. I mean they Did score 10 WHOLE POINTS in four Red zone Attempts :stupid:

What was I thinking? I guess we should all consult with you before we post our opinions. I mean you do seem to have all the answers and it appears you're never wrong. Hilarious! Hilarious!

[Mediator12]

I'm not sure why all the "can't touch coyer" is coming about

was the game mostly the offenses fault?

yes it was

but even in the 1st and 2nd quarter, if not for some great plays by Champ, they were driving on us and we still couldn't get to the QB and our corners were playing too far off.

Our offense sucked and was the reason we lost the game

but our defense does concern me a bit, it's like Alec said, their blitzing is probably the WORST in the league

I am not sure who you are referring to, but I will assume that is me for the sake of argument, OK.

I already Criticized Coyer, Ekuban, And Walls in other threads. I will restate those Criticisms to make sure you understand.

1. The Blitzes were ineffective as the CB's, Walls in particular, were not aggressive on the Hot reads.

2. The Blitzes usually dropped a DL into Coverage and only Brought five versus 6 or seven way TOO OFTEN. Then, the man coverage or zone Behind was porous and allowed completions with 6 in coverage.

3. Their was Seemingly no adjustments in the Coverage even after several short completions kept drives alive. Walls specifically Got his ass Reemed yesterday for not Implementing the direction given. I know this for a fact. He also got the lecture on not playing when Injured or ineffective. His failure to check himself allowed the game to get out of hand finally.

4. I am pissed off beyond all recognition at the lack of Pure Press coverage on third downs. Several of those were faulty player adjustments for being Scared of being beat deep even when they had help over the top. They were supposed to Press and Backed off the line. Lenny Walls did this Three times in the first half and then Promptly missed the jam on the 60 yard TD. If he even makes token contact that throw misses Booker. Instead, he does his best Matador OLE and watches Booker score. Jesus, that reminded me of A Deltha Like Performance :curse:

5. The Max Protect schemes needed to be addressed better in order to get Pressure. I thought the DL and Blitzers did Telegraph their Intentions too much except the Blitz that forced the INT. There they Put Williams Up and then dropped him into Coverage and Brought Gold And Wilson. It was not picked up and we got the INT.

The Defense failed to make and Implement certain third down adjustments for sure. The 52% third down Conversion is 22% too High compared to last year. They could have stepped up better, but the Offense should have at Least tried.

[Mile High Shack]

geez Med

calm down

I think everyone knows that the offense was the source of our problems sunday

but I saw a few things early in the game before everyone got hurt/tired that caused some concern for me

[Mediator12]

What was I thinking? I guess we should all consult with you before we post our opinions. I mean you do seem to have all the answers and it appears you're never wrong. Hilarious! Hilarious!

I actually admit when I make mistakes. I am wrong Daily. But, I have a strong sense of injustice that infuriates me with a passion sometimes. And, yes I have alot of solutions that is what I do for a living. I am truly Sorry that I made you feel like your opinons are not worthy. I am just extremely worked up. Look at My previous post on the Defenses problems. I hope you can Forgive my Venom.

[Bronco9798]

I actually admit when I make mistakes. I am wrong Daily. But, I have a strong sense of injustice that infuriates me with a passion sometimes. And, yes I have alot of solutions that is what I do for a living. I am truly Sorry that I made you feel like your opinons are not worthy. I am just extremely worked up. Look at My previous post on the Defenses problems. I hope you can Forgive my Venom.

It's all good man. I can tell you're not happy. I wasn't either. Sometimes we just see some things differently. :-)