Our D schemes?

[azbroncfan]

This is the same D we have put on the field last couple years. I'm not the biggest Coyer fan. His blitzing packages are predictable and we still cannot get pressure. Coyer is all talk and no show on the field. He always has sayings and motto's but the D never lives up to hype. This could be another career year for QB;s playing against denver broncos. :hitself:

[Broncoman13]

His schems (blitz's) suck b/c he drops a DL into coverage in order to blitz a LB. The concept of overload his completely lost!

[bloodsunday]

You know what? It was 6 - 3 at half time. Brown had something like 9 rushing yards at half time.

I can't even begin to pick on the defense until I manage to get through all the problems on offense, which may take all week. The defense did just about everything we wanted them to do. They got turnovers. They stiffened in the redzone. They kept us in the game until midway through the 3rd quarter. They kept us in the game with a safety playing corner.

The only thing they didn't do well was pressure the QB, but that was in large part because Miami didn't let us. They through a ton of short routes early in the game to neutralize our aggressiveness.

No complaints here about the D, at least not yet.

[Broncoman13]

You know what? It was 6 - 3 at half time. Brown had something like 9 rushing yards at half time.

I can't even begin to pick on the defense until I manage to get through all the problems on offense, which may take all week. The defense did just about everything we wanted them to do. They got turnovers. They stiffened in the redzone. They kept us in the game until midway through the 3rd quarter. They kept us in the game with a safety playing corner.

The only thing they didn't do well was pressure the QB, but that was in large part because Miami didn't let us. They through a ton of short routes early in the game to neutralize our aggressiveness.

No complaints here about the D, at least not yet.


All good points and I agree, but I'm still frustrated with the psuedo blitzes.

[x123z]

A lot of the D's problems stem from having to play most of the game. I hate Ray Lewis, but I wish we had someone to fire up our players like he does.

[Mastermind2002]

The only thing they didn't do well was pressure the QB, but that was in large part because Miami didn't let us. They through a ton of short routes early in the game to neutralize our aggressiveness.

Any reasons for why we couldn't do the same against them?

[Mastermind2002]

A lot of the D's problems stem from having to play most of the game. I hate Ray Lewis, but I wish we had someone to fire up our players like he does.

It doesn't matter if you bring in Ray Lewis or not. If the D is on the field too long, it's going to get worn out. The Ravens have a better D than the Broncos and they got worn out as the Colts eventually picked them apart. You can't give Manning that many chances to score and NOT score yourselves.

[jayman_37]

we weren't able to even go into nickel package in the second half at times. So some times we had Ian Gold trying to matchup with their slot receiver. That's not exactly a favorable matchup for us. Lenny Walls couldn't run with Marty Booker at all because of his cramps. This game is just something that happens to everyone. Even the mighty Patriots lost to Miami last year.

[Mediator12]

This is the same D we have put on the field last couple years. I'm not the biggest Coyer fan. His blitzing packages are predictable and we still cannot get pressure. Coyer is all talk and no show on the field. He always has sayings and motto's but the D never lives up to hype. This could be another career year for QB;s playing against denver broncos. :hitself:

Again, what the hell are you talking about? Miami had a TON of Max protection schemes and ONLY really started taking advantage of the game when Champ, Lenny, and Darrent were all sitting on the sidelines! There was one Big Play where Lenny Walls should not have been in the game, and Lynch was caught off guard by the snap count. That's it.

If you think this was the defenses fault you need to check your self. They held Miami down until 5 Min left in the third Q, then the Flood gates opened when Jake reverted to his poor decision making self and Ernster KO'd out of bounds.

[bloodsunday]

Any reasons for why we couldn't do the same against them?
Damn good question. I think primarily because A) it wasn't our game plan and we clearly can't adjust and B) I'm not sure we have the personnel to execute it. Honestly I think Miami has a better corp of receivers (across the board) than we do (Boston, Booker, and Chambers). McMichael is no slouch either. In the past our OL seems to really struggle with that kind of play and we end up with a lot of balls that are tipped and intercepted. I think Miami plays their DBs closer to the line of scrimmage as well. I was a bit surprised at how far off the line our Corners played. They probably had a lot respect for Miami's WR.

But that approach certainly would have been a good one to try.

[Mile High Shack]

Any reasons for why we couldn't do the same against them?

Jake Plummer

[noom]

We have schemes? hmmm...

[Mediator12]

Damn good question. I think primarily because A) it wasn't our game plan and we clearly can't adjust and B) I'm not sure we have the personnel to execute it. Honestly I think Miami has a better corp of receivers (across the board) than we do (Boston, Booker, and Chambers). McMichael is no slouch either. In the past our OL seems to really struggle with that kind of play and we end up with a lot of balls that are tipped and intercepted. I think Miami plays their DBs closer to the line of scrimmage as well. I was a bit surprised at how far off the line our Corners played. They probably had a lot respect for Miami's WR.

But that approach certainly would have been a good one to try.

Actually, the Lack of Shanahan to use ANY form Of Max Protection to get the ball Downfield constantly or just to complete any THIRD Down would be a crime. He consistently want to send 5 into patterns and I think it makes Jake read a too Much. Miami did a great job of Clogging the Middle on Blitzes and using TE's and RB's to pick up the edge blitzers.

[bloodsunday]

Actually, the Lack of Shanahan to use ANY form Of Max Protection to get the ball Downfield constantly or just to complete any THIRD Down would be a crime. He consistently want to send 5 into patterns and I think it makes Jake read a too Much. Miami did a great job of Clogging the Middle on Blitzes and using TE's and RB's to pick up the edge blitzers.
I just don't understand why a coaching staff with as much experience and talent as our could not adjust. It reminded me of Fonzie as the headcoach in the Water Boy.

[Mastermind2002]

Damn good question. I think primarily because A) it wasn't our game plan and we clearly can't adjust and B) I'm not sure we have the personnel to execute it. Honestly I think Miami has a better corp of receivers (across the board) than we do (Boston, Booker, and Chambers). McMichael is no slouch either. In the past our OL seems to really struggle with that kind of play and we end up with a lot of balls that are tipped and intercepted. I think Miami plays their DBs closer to the line of scrimmage as well. I was a bit surprised at how far off the line our Corners played. They probably had a lot respect for Miami's WR.

But that approach certainly would have been a good one to try.

I'm starting to believe that Shanahan has lost his ability to adjust to what the opponent does on D.

[bloodsunday]

I'm starting to believe that Shanahan has lost his ability to adjust to what the opponent does on D.
What's worse, I think he believes that his schemes are infallible. Our offense has been leaking oil for a while now, despite the top-10 yardage honor. We are horrid in the redzone and third down. We have not been able to dominate or take control of any game where the opposing defense has an even mediocre defense. The only thing this offense has going for it is that it puts up a lot of yards. The problem is that points are all that matters. No one cares how many yards you put up.

That's why I say that I am very disappointed about Shanahan's inability (or unwillingness) to adapt and change. This has been apparent from both a personnel and game plan perspective.

[Broncoman13]

Again, what the hell are you talking about? Miami had a TON of Max protection schemes and ONLY really started taking advantage of the game when Champ, Lenny, and Darrent were all sitting on the sidelines! There was one Big Play where Lenny Walls should not have been in the game, and Lynch was caught off guard by the snap count. That's it.

If you think this was the defenses fault you need to check your self. They held Miami down until 5 Min left in the third Q, then the Flood gates opened when Jake reverted to his poor decision making self and Ernster KO'd out of bounds.


Excellent points. This team isn't nearly as bad as they showed yesterday. You can't say for sure, but if Bailey doesn't get hurt (field related) and Walls and DWill don't miss time b/c of fatigue/cramps/heat we probably stay in that game until the end. The max protection is another good point... but what exactly is the point of sending a LB on a blitz so that you can drop a DE into coverage. Again, the concept of overload has been missed by Coyer!

[broncosteven]

I didn't like that Coyer kept bringing the Blitz & it kept getting picked up. Coyer obviously thought that he could pressure Gus into mistakes & take him out of the game. He did not have a backup plan to use when it was apparent that fins were able to not only pickup blitz but execute on quick timing routes for 8,10,12 yds consistently.

I blame Defense Coordinator for not adjusting & getting any stops, we got the score down to 10 points & really needed a stop & fins OC calls the right play that ends the game. Coyer got his ass kicked as much as the players.

I also blame Kubs for a vanallia O gameplan. but that is another thread.

[Mediator12]

I didn't like that Coyer kept bringing the Blitz & it kept getting picked up. Coyer obviously thought that he could pressure Gus into mistakes & take him out of the game. He did not have a backup plan to use when it was apparent that fins were able to not only pickup blitz but execute on quick timing routes for 8,10,12 yds consistently.

I blame Defense Coordinator for not adjusting & getting any stops, we got the score down to 10 points & really needed a stop & fins OC calls the right play that ends the game. Coyer got his ass kicked as much as the players.

I also blame Kubs for a vanallia O gameplan. but that is another thread.

Now you are showing some pure speculation that has no basis. Lenny Walls was hobbling against Booker and should have not been in the game. Coyer held them to 6 points for almost three Quarters and the offense had 7 drives of 5 plays or Less during that time.

The defense was on the field 70% of the TOP at the point where the Dolphins score their first TD. It is hard to get stops with A saftey playing CB too in 100 Degree heat.

[Broncoman13]

Any word on Champs status yet?

[Traveler]

DId anyone else notice during the jumbo package near the goal line that Carswell, Warren, and Alexander were in the game and we still couldn't punch it in? That's pathetic!

[kent156]

i'll hold off judgement and see how the season turns out, but one thing if the broncos can't get pressure on the QB and this fins oline is suppose to be so bad it's going to be a long season.

[kent156]

DId anyone else notice during the jumbo package near the goal line that Carswell, Warren, and Alexander were in the game and we still couldn't punch it in? That's pathetic!

the sad thing is the same package next week probably will work for a TD, this team is too inconsistent

[Mediator12]

i'll hold off judgement and see how the season turns out, but one thing if the broncos can't get pressure on the QB and this fins oline is suppose to be so bad it's going to be a long season.

The fins had a very good passing strategy with keeping a Back or TE in to protect on almost every single Passing play. Also something we did not account. However, the sloppy coverages were just that, SLOPPY!

I hope we play more Press coverage than we did today in the future. Almost every single play they completed a pass on was with the CB's 7-10 yards off the ball. I know Walls and Bailey are not great technicians on the Jams, but when you blitz, you have to cover the Hot routes Aggressively.

I was stunned to see CB's allowing that much seperation on third down's and giving up simple catches. Make them beat you deep. Make them earn it. They never did but allowed a ten yard catch to go 60 Yards with poor technique on the jam by an injured Walls.

[epa86b@netzero]

However, the sloppy coverages were just that, SLOPPY!

I was stunned to see CB's allowing that much seperation on third down's and giving up simple catches. They never did but allowed a ten yard catch to go 60 Yards with poor technique on the jam by an injured Walls.

This has been the story for the last couple of years. Sloppy coverage and missed assignments are becoming a staples on defense.

We need to play straight up defensive and forget the ineffective blitzs. Against a bad offense, the more plays they have to make the more likely they are to make a mistake. Instead, we give up cheap yardage on poor play calling.

Bottomline: These performances are becoming far too routine.

[kent156]

the broncos can't play straight up because again no pressure from the front four,then again miami was throwing the short 6-7 yarders, that started adding up a weakness is exposed the broncos corners get hurt, the team can't adjust game over this sounds familiar.

[epa86b@netzero]

the broncos can't play straight up because again no pressure from the front four,then again miami was throwing the short 6-7 yarders, that started adding up a weakness is exposed the broncos corners get hurt, the team can't adjust game over this sounds familiar.

Why not use the bend but don't break methodology? The blitzs schemes are horrible and create bigger soft sports in the Defense.

I agree, there are no in-game adjustments of the positive type.

[Play2win]

All good points and I agree, but I'm still frustrated with the psuedo blitzes.
The more and more I see of the Psuedo Blitzes, where they fake the blitz and drop off into coverage (I hope this is what you are talking about), The more I shake my head.

For a while, they might have, kind of made sense to do ONCE or TWICE a game, but to do them so many time is CONTER-PRODUCTIVE.

All it does is put a LB or Safety out of position to start the play. They spend the first half of the play just getting back into proper position, then play catch-up for the rest of the play.

Why would you fake a blitz with someone whose main responsibility is coverage. Its wishy washy IMHO, if you are going to blitz, then disguise it well and BLITZ!!!

This fake blitz has been done before (many, many times), its nothing new, and good, or even decent offenses, know exactly what to do when they see it.

The only thing these fake or Psuedo Blitzes do, anymore, is put our team at a Disadvantage. It nullifies the great athleticism we have at LB. We need our front 4 to get pressure and our LBs to give outstanding run support and use their speed to disrupt Passing lanes. The Defense has got the talent, we just need to play to our strengths and not negate it.

[fontaine]

The fins had a very good passing strategy with keeping a Back or TE in to protect on almost every single Passing play. Also something we did not account. However, the sloppy coverages were just that, SLOPPY!

I hope we play more Press coverage than we did today in the future. Almost every single play they completed a pass on was with the CB's 7-10 yards off the ball. I know Walls and Bailey are not great technicians on the Jams, but when you blitz, you have to cover the Hot routes Aggressively.

I was stunned to see CB's allowing that much seperation on third down's and giving up simple catches. Make them beat you deep. Make them earn it. They never did but allowed a ten yard catch to go 60 Yards with poor technique on the jam by an injured Walls.

When Champ was out of the game they had Boston matched up with D. Williams. With Booker/Chambers also in the game, Williams had to be 7/10 yards off Boston otherwise they risked him simply getting run over by a WR who had about 40 pounds on him. Williams had enough quickness and speed to get to the WR when it was a quick pass off the snap.

Our D played well I thought for 3 quarters. Especially limited the Dolhins in the red zone and in fairness, our Offense kept putting them into the game.

[Drek]

Can't fault the defense for just running out of DBs after being stranded on the field most of the game by the offense. There were problems, sure, but we'll look at those when we have a better idea of what this D is like with a better offensive showing.

Coyer does need to change it up a little though. He relies on the front 4 to carry the D too much in regards to pressuring the QB. He's got to mix up some blitzes that aren't totally predicatable and sometimes he's actually got to get agressive and send the house. Make a team worried about your pass rush or they'll eventually get comfortable and pass all over you.

[-Slap-]

His schems (blitz's) suck b/c he drops a DL into coverage in order to blitz a LB. The concept of overload his completely lost!
We never really commit to the zone blitz and dabbling in it is practically worthless.

[Raider Bill]

I don't understand why more teams don't blitz like Philadelphia does. They rarely drop a DL into coverage. They just roll the coverage to the side the blitz is coming from. In order for the qb to find the open guy, he'd have to turn his back to the blitz.

[OrangeCrush2724]

I like how Philly does it but I also like how the Ravens played Manning. Sometimes there were only 2 d-linemen in position to rush and the rest were all walking around so Manning had no idea where the blitz was comming from.

I'm just pissed with all the separation on 3rd downs and 5. We couldn't have given u any easier 1st downs.

[azbroncfan]

Again, what the hell are you talking about? Miami had a TON of Max protection schemes and ONLY really started taking advantage of the game when Champ, Lenny, and Darrent were all sitting on the sidelines! There was one Big Play where Lenny Walls should not have been in the game, and Lynch was caught off guard by the snap count. That's it.

If you think this was the defenses fault you need to check your self. They held Miami down until 5 Min left in the third Q, then the Flood gates opened when Jake reverted to his poor decision making self and Ernster KO'd out of bounds.
Again you need help reading my post. I never said the D let the O down. I just pointed out that DEN D schemes have been pretty pitiful the last couple years. Den is very predictable on D and that is why average QB's have looked like manning against DEN and Good QB's put up #'s like manning has against broncos. Did you what Philly blitz and even ATL for that much last night? Where did I say D lost the game? ???

[Popps]

I can't even begin to pick on the defense until I manage to get through all the problems on offense, which may take all week.

No argument that our offense was flat as a pancake, but you absolutely can't let our defense off that easily. Once again, go back and watch the tape. If not for Miami's own ineptness (constant penalties) and a horrible throw by Frerotte, the blowout would have begun in the first half.

Series one:

Miami (in spite of their first of many false start penalties) moves the ball from their 20 to the 50... then Chambers fumbles after Frerotte completed a 15 yard pass to him.

Series two: Scoring drive covers 50 yards despite offensive holding call. (FG good)

Series Three: FOUR penalties on Miami, yet they eat up the clock and move the ball another 50 yards to set up another FG.

Series Four: Frerotte throws a ball right to Bailey for a Larry Brown-like interception. Another shot in their own foot.

Series Five: Our first actual stop of the day, and we force them to punt.

Series Six: They move the ball 15 yards or so and the half runs out.

No sacks in the first half. One INT that was a gift, and only one forced punt.
They dominated time of possession against our D. Is that our offenses' fault? To some extent, perhaps. But isn't our defense supposed to actually STOP teams once in a while? (Well, often... not literally, like we did on Sun.)

There was a great defense out there on Sunday and they were dressed in ugly aqua-colored uniforms. They shut us down. Our defense wasn't exposed only due to a very charitable performance by Miami's offense... who still managed to eat up the clock.

I shudder to think what a real offense would have done to our defense in the first half on Sunday. It would have been hard(er) to watch.

[frerottenextelway]

I thought the D was fine. We forced 3 turnovers and kept them to 6 points in the 1st half.... and were losing.

[16-JakE-16]

The only thing they didn't do well was pressure the QB, but that was in large part because Miami didn't let us. They through a ton of short routes early in the game to neutralize our aggressiveness.



yea, that's what happens when your corners give a 10 yd cushion every damn play. it seems we've been doing that forever.

weren't Darrent and Foxworth 2 of the fastest players coming out? Why the **** would you play them back every play?

[Bronco9798]

No argument that our offense was flat as a pancake, but you absolutely can't let our defense off that easily. Once again, go back and watch the tape. If not for Miami's own ineptness (constant penalties) and a horrible throw by Frerotte, the blowout would have begun in the first half.

Series one:

Miami (in spite of their first of many false start penalties) moves the ball from their 20 to the 50... then Chambers fumbles after Frerotte completed a 15 yard pass to him.

Series two: Scoring drive covers 50 yards despite offensive holding call. (FG good)

Series Three: FOUR penalties on Miami, yet they eat up the clock and move the ball another 50 yards to set up another FG.

Series Four: Frerotte throws a ball right to Bailey for a Larry Brown-like interception. Another shot in their own foot.

Series Five: Our first actual stop of the day, and we force them to punt.

Series Six: They move the ball 15 yards or so and the half runs out.

No sacks in the first half. One INT that was a gift, and only one forced punt.
They dominated time of possession against our D. Is that our offenses' fault? To some extent, perhaps. But isn't our defense supposed to actually STOP teams once in a while? (Well, often... not literally, like we did on Sun.)

There was a great defense out there on Sunday and they were dressed in ugly aqua-colored uniforms. They shut us down. Our defense wasn't exposed only due to a very charitable performance by Miami's offense... who still managed to eat up the clock.

I shudder to think what a real offense would have done to our defense in the first half on Sunday. It would have been hard(er) to watch.

:thumbs:
Rep

[Bronco9798]

Again, what the hell are you talking about? Miami had a TON of Max protection schemes and ONLY really started taking advantage of the game when Champ, Lenny, and Darrent were all sitting on the sidelines! There was one Big Play where Lenny Walls should not have been in the game, and Lynch was caught off guard by the snap count. That's it.

If you think this was the defenses fault you need to check your self. They held Miami down until 5 Min left in the third Q, then the Flood gates opened when Jake reverted to his poor decision making self and Ernster KO'd out of bounds.

1st quarter drives:

13:18 1:57 MIA 25 4 25 yards Fumble
09:43 3:53 MIA 20 9 69 yards Field Goal
03:39 6:03 MIA 20 14 54 yards Field Goal

148 yards in the 1st quarter. Only 6 points but we gave up yards. They were workig on us early which set up their success in the second half.
1 3 and out by the defense in the 1st half except for the Int. We made Gus look like an All-Pro. 24 - 36 for 275.

This was a total team loss which includes the defense.

[SoCalBronco]

There are flaws with every kind of coverage and man blitzes as well as zone blitzes. There is no magic beat all coverage. Its all a matter of guessing right. You cant consistently zone blitz and win. You cant consistently do just a few things and win. You always have to mix it up. Everything about the NFL is about tendencies. If people know what you are going to do, even with inferior talent they will usually beat you. You have to force people to run generally applicable schemes that are decent against all the main coverages but arent really killer against one thing or another. If you keep playing 3 deep sky zone against a certain formation on a certain down and distance, they'll come at you with four verticals or curls/flats or floods which will destroy that coverage. You always have to mix up what your doing and self scout yourself and compare your self scouting report to your opponent's scouting report and look at it from the perspective of their tendencies. You have to put yourself in their shoes. Based on what they already like to run, what are they likely to run after looking at your own tendencies. Its not enough to just look at what they do and ask yourself, okay just from their scouting report, what are they likely to do to us.

You gotta look at theirs and then yours and see what matches and what conflicts. If on X Down and Distance they have a strong tendency to do Y on offense, and on that same Down and Distance, you have a strong tendency to play Z defense and Z just happens to be a defense that is very good against Y, you sure as hell better know that on gameday they are not going to play Y in that situation, even if they have a very strong tendency across several games doing so, because they looked at your tendencies and they see what they usually do isnt going to work. So you have to look at the next most frequent schemes they have played in that situation and ask yourself which of these other things they play in that situation would work good against our own tendencies. Once you figure that out you have what they are likely to do and then you can run something that works against that. So its all a big guessing game. Its very complicated, educated guesses to be sure, but its just guesses.

[Bronco9798]

There are flaws with every kind of coverage and man blitzes as well as zone blitzes. There is no magic beat all coverage. Its all a matter of guessing right. You cant consistently zone blitz and win. You cant consistently do just a few things and win. You always have to mix it up. Everything about the NFL is about tendencies. If people know what you are going to do, even with inferior talent they will usually beat you. You have to force people to run generally applicable schemes that are decent against all the main coverages but arent really killer against one thing or another. If you keep playing 3 deep sky zone against a certain formation on a certain down and distance, they'll come at you with four verticals or curls/flats or floods which will destroy that coverage. You always have to mix up what your doing and self scout yourself and compare your self scouting report to your opponent's scouting report and look at it from the perspective of their tendencies. You have to put yourself in their shoes. Based on what they already like to run, what are they likely to run after looking at your own tendencies. Its not enough to just look at what they do and ask yourself, okay just from their scouting report, what are they likely to do to us. You gotta look at theirs and then yours and see what matches and what conflicts. If on X Down and Distance they have a strong tendency to do Y on offense, and on that same Down and Distance, you have a strong tendency to play Z defense and Z just happens to be a defense that is very good against Y, you sure as hell better know that on gameday they are not going to play Y in that situation, even if they have a very strong tendency across several games doing so, because they looked at your tendencies and they see what they usually do isnt going to work. So you have to look at the next most frequent schemes they have played in that situation and ask yourself which of these other things they play in that situation would work good against our own tendencies. Once you figure that out you have what they are likely to do and then you can run something that works against that. So its all a big guessing game. Its very complicated, educated guesses to be sure, but its just guesses.

My eyes got blurry half way through it.

[DBroncos4life]

The dropped Fergy pick still burns my ass. What good does it do to have guys playing centerfield if they can't catch the ball? Its going to be a problem all year long. Shulters would have been a good guy to look at when he was let go but nothing we can do about it now.

[Orange4ever]

Coyer hasn't impressed me in the least bit. He talks a good game but then game plans like a pu**y. I still remember his little spiel before the Indy playoff game about bringing some smack down on Indy's receivers. What did the Bronc's do? They played a soft zone, layed back and got killed. When they did blitz they got killed. Yeah, the Broncos have been a top 5 defense since he's been the coordinator but it's all smoke and mirrors. Like Ditka said about stats, "Stats are for idiots!".

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

[QUOTE=Mediator12]The fins had a very good passing strategy with keeping a Back or TE in to protect on almost every single Passing play. .[/QUOTE
I was surprised how well Brown blocked. I knew he was an excellent receiver and very good runner,but I thought it would take him at least a year or two to become a good blocker in the NFL.