Clinton rejects Bush-led probe of Katrina

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Bush trying to investigate anything would be a comedy in the making anyway but Clinton's right. At the very least, a bi-partisan panel should be formed to figure out this federal mess.

------------------------------------------------------
Wed Sep 7,11:01 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Senator
Hillary Clinton fueled the political debate over Hurricane Katrina, insisting on an independent inquiry into the federal response and sharply rejecting
President George W. Bush's bid to lead the probe himself.

"I don't think the government should be investigating itself," Clinton told CNN as the polemics intensified over last week's storm, which left New Orleans in chaos and thousands feared dead on the US Gulf Coast.

"I don't think either the president or the Congress can conduct the kind of objective, independent investigation that we need," the New York Democrat and former first lady said on CBS television.

Clinton, considered a potential White House candidate in 2008, has taken a lead role in criticizing the Bush administration for the sluggish early efforts to dispatch troops and relief supplies to hurricane-hit areas.

She wrote Bush a critical letter over the weekend and visited New Orleans evacuees in the Houston, Texas, Astrodome stadium. She held a major news conference on Tuesday before making the rounds of television stations on Wednesday.

Senate Republicans have announced investigations into the government's handling of Katrina. Bush, who has acknowledged shortcomings, promised Tuesday to lead an inquiry into "what went wrong."

But Clinton is pushing for the creation of an independent "Katrina Commission" along the lines of the panel reluctantly named by Bush that issued a voluminous report on the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.

"I think we sort of have lost track of the fact this is a government that has to be accountable to the people of our country," Clinton told CNN.

"This is not a game. This has to be a serious inquiry that people have confidence in that will help us understand what did go wrong. The sooner we know that, the better."
http://tinyurl.com/aac8u

[epicSocialism4tw]

Bush trying to investigate anything would be a comedy in the making anyway but Clinton's right. At the very least, a bi-partisan panel should be formed to figure out this federal mess.

------------------------------------------------------
Wed Sep 7,11:01 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Senator
Hillary Clinton fueled the political debate over Hurricane Katrina, insisting on an independent inquiry into the federal response and sharply rejecting
President George W. Bush's bid to lead the probe himself.

"I don't think the government should be investigating itself," Clinton told CNN as the polemics intensified over last week's storm, which left New Orleans in chaos and thousands feared dead on the US Gulf Coast.

"I don't think either the president or the Congress can conduct the kind of objective, independent investigation that we need," the New York Democrat and former first lady said on CBS television.

Clinton, considered a potential White House candidate in 2008, has taken a lead role in criticizing the Bush administration for the sluggish early efforts to dispatch troops and relief supplies to hurricane-hit areas.

She wrote Bush a critical letter over the weekend and visited New Orleans evacuees in the Houston, Texas, Astrodome stadium. She held a major news conference on Tuesday before making the rounds of television stations on Wednesday.

Senate Republicans have announced investigations into the government's handling of Katrina. Bush, who has acknowledged shortcomings, promised Tuesday to lead an inquiry into "what went wrong."

But Clinton is pushing for the creation of an independent "Katrina Commission" along the lines of the panel reluctantly named by Bush that issued a voluminous report on the September 11, 2001 terror attacks.

"I think we sort of have lost track of the fact this is a government that has to be accountable to the people of our country," Clinton told CNN.

"This is not a game. This has to be a serious inquiry that people have confidence in that will help us understand what did go wrong. The sooner we know that, the better."
http://tinyurl.com/aac8u


It seems a little early to start all of this bickering. I guess that its far beyond the scope of political restraint to ask that America wait to start pointing fingers until the dust settles.

[bronco_diesel]

It seems a little early to start all of this bickering. I guess that its far beyond the scope of political restraint to ask that America wait to start pointing fingers until the dust settles.

would you expect any different from hillary?

[footstepsfrom#27]

If Hillary Clinton told me the sky was blue and the sun rises in the east, I'd have to double check to be sure. But in this case she's right. How absurd is it that Bush thought he could get away with being the guy who investigates his own administration? I busted out laughing when I heard him say that.

[Rigs11]

If Hillary Clinton told me the sky was blue and the sun rises in the east, I'd have to double check to be sure. But in this case she's right. How absurd is it that Bush thought he could bet away with being the guy who investigates his own administration? I busted out laughing when I heard him say that.

Hell Bush had to be repeadetly pushed to even investigate the the failure to stop 911.Then he didn't want to swear under oath, and instead only aggreed to meet with investigators if his uncle Dickie was present.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It seems a little early to start all of this bickering. I guess that its far beyond the scope of political restraint to ask that America wait to start pointing fingers until the dust settles.

The reason the right keeps saying "now is not the time to point fingers," etc., is because they know exactly who those fingers are pointing to.

Bush's usual proposal to investigate himself is just one more slap in the face to the victims of this disaster and their families.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

BushCo Disaster Response: Do Nothing - Whitewash Everything

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspecial/05bush.html

Under the command of President Bush's two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan this weekend to contain the political damage from the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina.

It orchestrated visits by cabinet members to the region, leading up to an extraordinary return visit by Mr. Bush planned for Monday, directed administration officials not to respond to attacks from Democrats on the relief efforts, and sought to move the blame for the slow response to Louisiana state officials, according to Republicans familiar with the White House plan.

The effort is being directed by Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, and his communications director, Dan Bartlett. It began late last week after Congressional Republicans called White House officials to register alarm about what they saw as a feeble response by Mr. Bush to the hurricane, according to Republican Congressional aides.

As a result, Americans watching television coverage of the disaster this weekend began to see, amid the destruction and suffering, some of the most prominent members of the administration - Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Donald H. Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense; and Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state - touring storm-damaged communities.

Mr. Bush is to return to Louisiana and Mississippi on Monday; his first visit, on Friday, left some Republicans cringing, in part because the president had little contact with residents left homeless.

Republicans said the administration's effort to stanch the damage had been helped by the fact that convoys of troops and supplies had begun to arrive by the time the administration officials turned up. All of those developments were covered closely on television.

(Meanwhile, have we seen him in chest waders, heaving sandbags or plying a shovel? Have we seen him chainsawing a stranded survivor out of an attic? Have we seen him hoisting a survivor into a boat? Have we seen him doing ANYTHING truly meaningful at all? NOOOOO!)

In many ways, the unfolding public relations campaign reflects the style Mr. Rove has brought to the political campaigns he has run for Mr. Bush. For example, administration officials who went on television on Sunday were instructed to avoid getting drawn into exchanges about the problems of the past week, and to turn the discussion to what the government is doing now.

(Which is still a bad idea--because what they're doing NOW is still woefully inadequate, tight media coverage notwithstanding.)

"We will have time to go back and do an after-action report, but the time right now is to look at what the enormous tasks ahead are," Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, said on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

One Republican with knowledge of the effort said that Mr. Rove had told administration officials not to respond to Democratic attacks on Mr. Bush's handling of the hurricane in the belief that the president was in a weak moment and that the administration should not appear to be seen now as being blatantly political. As with others in the party, this Republican would discuss the deliberations only on condition of anonymity because of keen White House sensitivity about how the administration and its strategy would be perceived.

In a reflection of what has long been a hallmark of Mr. Rove's tough political style, the administration is also working to shift the blame away from the White House and toward officials of New Orleans and Louisiana who, as it happens, are Democrats.

"The way that emergency operations act under the law is the responsibility and the power, the authority, to order an evacuation rests with state and local officials," Mr. Chertoff said in his television interview. "The federal government comes in and supports those officials."

That line of argument was echoed throughout the day, in harsher language, by Republicans reflecting the White House line.

In interviews, these Republicans said that the normally nimble White House political operation had fallen short in part because the president and his aides were scattered outside Washington on vacation, leaving no one obviously in charge at a time of great disruption. Mr. Rove and Mr. Bush were in Texas, while Vice President Dick Cheney was at his Wyoming ranch.

Mr. Bush's communications director, Nicolle Devenish, was married this weekend in Greece , and a number of Mr. Bush's political advisers - including Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman - attended the wedding.

Ms. Rice did not return to Washington until Thursday, after she was spotted at a Broadway show and shopping for shoes, an image that Republicans said buttressed the notion of a White House unconcerned with tragedy.

These officials said that Mr. Bush and his political aides rapidly changed course in what they acknowledged was a belated realization of the situation's political ramifications. As is common when this White House confronts a serious problem, management was quickly taken over by Mr. Rove and a group of associates including Mr. Bartlett. Neither man responded to requests for comment.

White House advisers said that Mr. Bush expressed alarm after his return to Washington from the Gulf Coast.

One senior White House official said that Mr. Bush appeared at a senior staff meeting in the Situation Room on Friday and called the results on the ground "unacceptable." At the encouragement of Mr. Bartlett, officials said, he repeated the comment later in the Rose Garden, the start of this campaign.

[epicSocialism4tw]

The reason the right keeps saying "now is not the time to point fingers," etc., is because they know exactly who those fingers are pointing to.

Bush's usual proposal to investigate himself is just one more slap in the face to the victims of this disaster and their families.


It's not just Bush that fingers point to. Again, I dont know what you are talking about with that "right winger" label. If someone disagrees with you, it doesnt make them a "right winger."

I noticed early on that the media coverage was very light juxtaposed with the possible toll of the damage. I thought that it was a big market/small market thing. This involves every news station and media outlet. I know that many headlines basically said that (paraphrased) "the damage could have been worse...its not as bad as we thought."

America's tone was not very serious until helicopters started pulling people from rooftops and people started tearing that place apart.

You still dont really see much coverage of Alabama and Mississippi. This thing is terrible.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It's not just Bush that fingers point to.

What part of "primary responsibility" don't you understand?

Blanco’s letter requesting Emergency aid under the Stafford Act, August 27th
http://www.bayoubuzz.com/articles.aspx?aid=4843

President Bush legally puts the ball in Chertoff and Howard’s court, August 27th
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.htm

Which means, as of August 27th, it was all Homeland Security/FEMA, all the way to the bank;

In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort. The new Department will also prioritize the important issue of citizen preparedness. Educating America's families on how best to prepare their homes for a disaster and tips for citizens on how to respond in a crisis will be given special attention at DHS.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp

[epicSocialism4tw]

That article really shows nothing outside of political maneuvering which is to be expected. It does show some severe and blatant bias on the part of the NYTimes writer. Show me some facts.

There was obvoiusly a problem in the delay of aide in getting to the folks there. No doubt about that. I wonder if it revolves around the levee problem and how they possibly did not expect it to break. There was a delay and that is a problem, but IMO, it is probably a combination of many issues. It seems reductionary to draw a single bead on Bush and ignore the rest of the problem. That gets nowhere in regards to identifying the problem and improving the system as is.

[epicSocialism4tw]

What part of "primary responsibility" don't you understand?


No need to start throwing out insults. The Dept of Homeland Security responds to natural disasters, yes, they are not the first responders though.

I think that it is important to wait on some more info before we start blindly throwing blame around and attempting to divide the people when they should be drawing together. There are hard times for all of us ahead.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

If someone disagrees with you, it doesnt make them a "right winger."

It's not a question of "disagreeing" (as if the reality of what just happened was nothing but a matter of opinion) - it's a question of facts.

The "let's not point fingers" messages are coming primarily from republicans and bush supporters.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That article really shows nothing outside of political maneuvering which is to be expected. It does show some severe and blatant bias on the part of the NYTimes writer. Show me some facts.

There you go with the right-wing spin.

Read "political maneuvering" and "blatant bias" as "calls for BushCo accountability" and "criticism of BushCo inaction."

[epicSocialism4tw]

It's not a question of "disagreeing" (as if the reality of what just happened was nothing but a matter of opinion) - it's a question of facts.

The "let's not point fingers" messages are coming primarily from republicans and bush supporters.


Obviously. That's how politics work. I tend to agree with that approach right now. We are still in ground-zero stage with no info on the situation and people are already throwing political mud. Lets wait on an investigation (after the situation is calmed and in repair) to show us what decisions were made and by whom.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The Dept of Homeland Security responds to natural disasters, yes, they are not the first responders though.


Unbelievable!

Post #9 was completely lost on you.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

It seems a little early to start all of this bickering. I guess that its far beyond the scope of political restraint to ask that America wait to start pointing fingers until the dust settles.

It might be too late if another hurricane hits or a terrorist attack and they still haven't figured out what to do yet. This needs to be addressed in a hurry and figure out why the federal governmnet doesn't have any idea of what it's suppose to be doing.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://workingforchange.speedera.net/www.workingforchange.com/webgraphics/wfc/TMW09-05-07.jpg

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

It might be too late if another hurricane hits or a terrorist attack and they still haven't figured out what to do yet. This needs to be addressed in a hurry and figure out why the federal governmnet doesn't have any idea of wha't it's suppose to be doing.

Hammer, nail, head. :thumbsup:

In addition, we don't need to give Turd Blossom a head start on the usual whitewash effort.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Under the command of President Bush's two senior political advisers, the White House rolled out a plan this weekend to contain the political damage from the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina.

Here the authors intentions are present from the get go. The phrase "contain the political damage from the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina." infers that there is already a national consciousness that blames at least some of the problem on Bush, which is untrue. I think that a current popular poll lists that number at 13%. I dont see any political damage from my vantage point, but many media members are pushing this as hard as they can. Is that tactic really getting results? The poll doesnt indicate that it is.

It orchestrated visits by cabinet members to the region, leading up to an extraordinary return visit by Mr. Bush planned for Monday, directed administration officials not to respond to attacks from Democrats on the relief efforts, and sought to move the blame for the slow response to Louisiana state officials, according to Republicans familiar with the White House plan.

Here the writer begins the conspiracy theories that to me seem really contrived. Why would Bush give the Democrats fuel for their fire? It doesnt make any sense, but that is what the Times wants.

The boldened statement to me is pretty obviously tilted and is backed with no information and ghostly sources. It is possible and probable that Bush's media advisors will play the media to its own advantage. That is a given, but why make it seem like a conspiracy? Dont adults understand that things like this happen in the world around them? A balanced writer would leave all of this out of the article and find some meat.

The effort is being directed by Mr. Bush's chief political adviser, Karl Rove, and his communications director, Dan Bartlett. It began late last week after Congressional Republicans called White House officials to register alarm about what they saw as a feeble response by Mr. Bush to the hurricane, according to Republican Congressional aides.

Again, political maneuvering. I dont see what is the issue with that. Politics are a childish game. The real question revolves around specifics on decision-making, of which there is no information.

As a result, Americans watching television coverage of the disaster this weekend began to see, amid the destruction and suffering, some of the most prominent members of the administration - Richard B. Myers, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff; Donald H. Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense; and Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state - touring storm-damaged communities.

Still just a narrative criticizing political PR maneuvers. I dont care about PR maneuvers. I care about what really happened, which hasnt been mentioned once in this artlicle.

Mr. Bush is to return to Louisiana and Mississippi on Monday; his first visit, on Friday, left some Republicans cringing, in part because the president had little contact with residents left homeless.

Republicans said the administration's effort to stanch the damage had been helped by the fact that convoys of troops and supplies had begun to arrive by the time the administration officials turned up. All of those developments were covered closely on television.

Here she uses a blanket definition and infers that Bush's own party is against him. That he is "that terrible of a person." Has Bush ever given the media what they want? Has he ever cared about PR?

(Meanwhile, have we seen him in chest waders, heaving sandbags or plying a shovel? Have we seen him chainsawing a stranded survivor out of an attic? Have we seen him hoisting a survivor into a boat? Have we seen him doing ANYTHING truly meaningful at all? NOOOOO!)

This is really blatant. Why is the president, who is engaged in all of the technical underpinnings of this endeavor, be wasting time making a PR move? Seems a little rediculous to me.

In many ways, the unfolding public relations campaign reflects the style Mr. Rove has brought to the political campaigns he has run for Mr. Bush. For example, administration officials who went on television on Sunday were instructed to avoid getting drawn into exchanges about the problems of the past week, and to turn the discussion to what the government is doing now.

(Which is still a bad idea--because what they're doing NOW is still woefully inadequate, tight media coverage notwithstanding.)

"We will have time to go back and do an after-action report, but the time right now is to look at what the enormous tasks ahead are," Michael Chertoff, the secretary of Homeland Security, said on "Meet the Press" on NBC.

Of course the government is focusing on what they are doing now. There is alot of work left to be done just to stabilize the situation. There is no reason to put all of that on hold. Chertoff gave the answer that I would hope to hear. I just hope that he is right.

One Republican with knowledge of the effort said that Mr. Rove had told administration officials not to respond to Democratic attacks on Mr. Bush's handling of the hurricane in the belief that the president was in a weak moment and that the administration should not appear to be seen now as being blatantly political. As with others in the party, this Republican would discuss the deliberations only on condition of anonymity because of keen White House sensitivity about how the administration and its strategy would be perceived.

In a reflection of what has long been a hallmark of Mr. Rove's tough political style, the administration is also working to shift the blame away from the White House and toward officials of New Orleans and Louisiana who, as it happens, are Democrats.

Here the writer lets us know that they do not like the style of Rove, and that they think that he is conniving.

On another note, I can appreciate the administration not being overly political right now. I think that that is the classy thing to do. Not to say that it will not come later, but that does not illegitamize what they are doing now.
"The way that emergency operations act under the law is the responsibility and the power, the authority, to order an evacuation rests with state and local officials," Mr. Chertoff said in his television interview. "The federal government comes in and supports those officials."

That line of argument was echoed throughout the day, in harsher language, by Republicans reflecting the White House line.

In interviews, these Republicans said that the normally nimble White House political operation had fallen short in part because the president and his aides were scattered outside Washington on vacation, leaving no one obviously in charge at a time of great disruption. Mr. Rove and Mr. Bush were in Texas, while Vice President Dick Cheney was at his Wyoming ranch.

Here is the argument that the white house is lazy. I agree that they probably should have gone to DC, but they have conference call ability at their respective places. I dont see how that would have completely stalled the car.

Mr. Bush's communications director, Nicolle Devenish, was married this weekend in Greece , and a number of Mr. Bush's political advisers - including Ken Mehlman, the Republican National Committee chairman - attended the wedding.

Ms. Rice did not return to Washington until Thursday, after she was spotted at a Broadway show and shopping for shoes, an image that Republicans said buttressed the notion of a White House unconcerned with tragedy.

I dont think that these people planned the wedding there on purpose. Its a long way back from Greece.

Rice needs to get her act together if that is the case, but I dont think that they are unconcerned with the tragedy. Sheesh.

[epicSocialism4tw]

It might be too late if another hurricane hits or a terrorist attack and they still haven't figured out what to do yet. This needs to be addressed in a hurry and figure out why the federal governmnet doesn't have any idea of what it's suppose to be doing.


I agree, but there is still alot of work for them to do. A war on one hand and a natural disaster in the other.

IMO, Hillary Clinton should take her political PR stuff backstage. Get the investigation, but let this thing get taken care of.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I agree, but there is still alot of work for them to do. A war on one hand and a natural disaster in the other.

IMO, Hillary Clinton should take her political PR stuff backstage. Get the investigation, but let this thing get taken care of.
She was addressing Bush's "political PR stuff". Why didn't you call for him to take it "backstage"?

[epicSocialism4tw]

She was addressing Bush's "political PR stuff". Why didn't you call for him to take it "backstage"?


His stuff usually is not even backstage. It is nonexistent. He begrudgingly does the PR game and seems to loathe it.

It seems like his PR people are the ones throwing him out there.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

His stuff usually is not even backstage. It is nonexistent. He begrudgingly does the PR game and seems to loathe it.

It seems like his PR people are the ones throwing him out there.

Actually, Bush has a hard time forming coherent sentences that aren't scripted so yes, his handlers don't like him to get in front of the cameras without proper preparation but you still didn't answer my question. You just covered for him.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

IMO, Hillary Clinton should take her political PR stuff backstage.

You don't seem to realize that your characterization of Clinton's statements as "political PR stuff" is nothing more than right-wing spin - the same sort of thing that's coming from Turd Blossom in the damage control room.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

... but you still didn't answer my question. You just covered for him.

His is the usual right-wing tactic:

Mischaracterize and dismiss any criticism of Bush or call for Bush accountability as "political PR," "partisan attacks," etc.

It's a way to deflect blame and to put it on the whistle-blower or accusor.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Here the authors intentions are present from the get go. The phrase "contain the political damage from the administration's response to Hurricane Katrina." infers that there is already a national consciousness that blames at least some of the problem on Bush, which is untrue. I think that a current popular poll lists that number at 13%. I dont see any political damage from my vantage point, but many media members are pushing this as hard as they can. Is that tactic really getting results? The poll doesnt indicate that it is.


Gallup: 42% of respondents characterized Bush's response to the disaster as bad or terrible, 35% said it was good or great.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001055733

[epicSocialism4tw]

You don't seem to realize that your characterization of Clinton's statements as "political PR stuff" is nothing more than right-wing spin - the same sort of thing that's coming from Turd Blossom in the damage control room.


Well, that's what it is.

Honestly, we really have no idea of what the political cogs are that are turning behind this investigation.

It is PR stuff because she is being trained as the Democratic mouthpiece. That is not a conspiracy theory, its just the way that it works. She is pandering for the vote. Working for it.

Its not spin, its a game.

You have to know that the Dems are struggling nationally because despite having a very questionable president in office, they have not been able to swing the vote their way even in the house and senate. I think its time for a pretty significant platform change for them. Maybe Clinton will wise up and bring that to the table. If she markets herself as culturallly aware, she might just win the election.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Well, that's what it is.

No.

Calls for accountability are not "political PR."

Your characterization of them as such is just a standard tactic right-wingers use to deflect criticism and to cover Bush's flank.

[DBruleU]

Gallup: 42% of respondents characterized Bush's response to the disaster as bad or terrible, 35% said it was good or great.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001055733

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/7/125349.shtml

Poll

[epicSocialism4tw]

No.

Calls for accountability are not "political PR."

Your characterization of them as such is just a standard tactic right-wingers use to deflect criticism and to cover Bush's flank.

Theres no flank covering going on here. Calls for accountability would be done in a corporation behind closed doors. In a public corp (government) it becomes public property. Hillary is posturing or counter posturing for her party (however you want to put it). That pressure does not seriously reach the whitehouse. The pressure in the white house comes from its contributors.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/7/125349.shtml

Poll

Newsmax?

Hilarious!

Don't forget to include freerepublic.com, little green footballs, and Rush the Junkie.

[DBruleU]

Newsmax is your kryptonite I guess. LOL rofl :)

[epicSocialism4tw]

Newsmax?

Hilarious!

Don't forget to include freerepublic.com, little green footballs, and Rush the Junkie.


The poll was USA Today, though.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Newsmax is your kryptonite I guess. LOL rofl :)

:dummy:

Um, actually, it would be yours, as you use it to "bolster" your arguments.

[DBruleU]

The poll was USA Today, though.

True, Newsmax never has their own polls. All the polls from newsmax that I have posted, are original polls from places like, ABC, Gallup, USA today...and so on.

[epicSocialism4tw]

:dummy:

Um, actually, it would be yours, as you use it to "bolster" your arguments.


Bro, you just brought a NY Times article into this debate. Not alot of difference there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

True, Newsmax never has their own polls..

I wouldn't know (much to my credit.)

[DBruleU]

Bro, you just brought a NY Times article into this debate. Not alot of difference there.

That and he believes site such as buckfush.com is a more credible place. Even the URL is slanted.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Bro, you just brought a NY Times article into this debate. Not alot of difference there.

NY Times?

You mean that same paper that had to issue a formal apology for its role as an uncritical cheerleader for Bush's Iraq disaster? The same paper one of whose star reporters is rotting in jail as we speak because of her role in helping the Bush WH out an undercover CIA operative for political payback?

Gotcha.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

That and he believes site such as buckfush.com is a more credible place. Even the URL is slanted.

Actually, it was just a cartoon from buckfush.com - not an article or a poll.

But it's nice to see how the site name has become etched in your memory. :D

[epicSocialism4tw]

NY Times?

You mean that same paper that had to issue a formal apology for its role as an uncritical cheerleader for Bush's Iraq disaster? The same paper one of whose star reporters is rotting in jail as we speak because of her role in helping the Bush WH out an undercover CIA operative for political payback?

Gotcha.

I just had to laugh at that...no other response.

[W*GS]

(Addressed to LABF):

Again, I dont know what you are talking about with that "right winger" label. If someone disagrees with you, it doesnt make them a "right winger."

In LABF's world, yes, it does.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees." - GeeDubya

This page documents with photos the (underfunded) preventative measures VIGOROUSLY pursued in Louisiana by state leadership and the Army Corps of Engineers to prevent the New Orleans disaster:

http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/PastFeatures/PastFeatures.htm

Against the clock is how they put it.

Here's a description of the collection of hurricane protection projects, and reference to the lack of funding in the words of the Army Corps of Engineers (NOT politicians)..

"The President’s budget for fiscal year 2005 was $3.9 million. Congress increased it to $5.5 million. This was insufficient to fund new construction contracts. Engineering design, and construction supervision and inspection efforts are also included. Seven contracts are being delayed due to lack funds."

http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/pao/response/HURPROJ.asp?prj=lkpon1

Hurricane prevention for New Orleans was very obviously an identified need and CLEARLY on Governor Blanco and Senator Landrieu's radar.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

"Nobody ever imagined terrorists would use aircraft as missles" either, did they George?

When, oh when, America, will you wake up and expell this no-account fool?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.bartcop.com/launch-monkey.gif