Surtain Toasted- Chiefs D still sucks

[Bronco9798]

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/football/nfl/kansas_city_chiefs/12496335.htm

With so much attention focused on the Chiefs’ shaky situation at right cornerback, who would have believed they would spring a leak on the left side?

Patrick Surtain, the Chiefs’ most expensive offseason acquisition, struggled in coverage during the first half of Saturday night’s 23-17 loss to Seattle.

Surtain, a two-time Pro Bowler during his seven-year career at Miami, was beaten badly by Seattle veteran Darrell Jackson for a 36-yard touchdown pass in the first quarter. Jackson, the Seahawks’ leading receiver during three of the past four years, burst past Surtain and caught Matt Hasselbeck’s spiral in stride.

“I couldn’t really find the ball,” Surtain said. “I lost the ball in the lights.”

Earlier in the quarter, Jackson had a step on Surtain inside the Chiefs’ 20 but could not make the catch. On the Seahawks’ next possession, Jackson beat Surtain for 9 yards on a hitch.

Surtain, known for his tight, man-to-man coverage, also gave some cushion to Seattle’s D.J. Hackett, who beat him on a slant for 13 yards in the second quarter, and he later surrendered an 11-yard reception to Jerheme Urban.


Bob? Can you help us out with this. I'm not sure what happened. I thought you guys bought a "Shut Down" corner.

How did Kendra Bell look last night? Oh that's right he didnt play.

[elsid13]

Patrick Surtain = Peerless Price

See what happen when #2 becomes "the MAN"

[16-JakE-16]

Madison has always been the better corner. Not to mention the talent he had around him all those years in MIA.

[Rocket 7]

“I couldn’t really find the ball,” Surtain said. “I lost the ball in the lights.”

Sure

[Bronco9798]

Sure


That's exactly what I was thinking. Just say you got beat.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Every corner gets beat. It happens.

I'm more concerned about the four other slant plays that he gave up. The Chiefs appeared to be doing something odd with their corners last night. They were playing off the ball all night instead of getting up in the face.

Gunther's orders. ???

I doubt the same thing happens when the games count.

[WaffleBoy]

Bob, the Chefs should have signed Champ.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[FADERPROOF]

Every corner gets beat. It happens.

I'm more concerned about the four other slant plays that he gave up. The Chiefs appeared to be doing something odd with their corners last night. They were playing off the ball all night instead of getting up in the face.

Gunther's orders. ???

I doubt the same thing happens when the games count.

It doesnt matter how the corners did, we want to know how good your coveted punter looked last night.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

It doesnt matter how the corners did, we want to know how good your coveted punter looked last night.

He was quite good again.

[16-JakE-16]

Every corner gets beat. It happens.

I'm more concerned about the four other slant plays that he gave up. The Chiefs appeared to be doing something odd with their corners last night. They were playing off the ball all night instead of getting up in the face.

Gunther's orders. ???

I doubt the same thing happens when the games count.


Get used to it. Surtain won't be able to play bump n run without Taylor rushing and Marion over the top. He had so much talent around him here in Miami.

[Tredici]

He was quite good again.

Got a lot of work did he?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Get used to it. Surtain won't be able to play bump n run without Taylor rushing and Marion over the top. He had so much talent around him here in Miami.

What a load of crap.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Got a lot of work did he?

Yes. We couldn't convert a third down to save our life with Quinn in there.

[16-JakE-16]

What a load of crap.


Hilarious! ....You'll see in time. Hilarious!

[shakenbake]

Did K. Bell play last night for the chiefs ?

[Bronco LB 59]

The Chiefs' defensive line is going to put Surtain in a bad spot all season long. Jared Allen is the only one on the front four that can rush the passer, but his run defense makes him a one dimensional situational pass rusher. Without blitzing, the Chiefs won't be able to put heat on the quarterback this season.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The Chiefs' defensive line is going to put Surtain in a bad spot all season long. Jared Allen is the only one on the front four that can rush the passer, but his run defense makes him a one dimensional situational pass rusher. Without blitzing, the Chiefs won't be able to put heat on the quarterback this season.

Heh. You evidently didn't see Carlos Hall last night.

[Rock Chalk]

Get used to it. Surtain won't be able to play bump n run without Taylor rushing and Marion over the top. He had so much talent around him here in Miami.
Yeah, Surtain did have a lot of talent in Miami. Taylor, Madison, Brock, and of course Zach Thomas who, while a little older, is still a bad ass. Miami knew what you had to have for even the best corners to look good, a pass rush. Guess what? KC still dont have one good enough to cover the ineptitude's in that secondary and Surtain is going to look most foolish without all that help.

[Bronco LB 59]

Heh. You evidently didn't see Carlos Hall last night.

After registering 3 sacks in his first NFL game, Carlos Hall tallied only 9 in the following 2 seasons and 15 games. He's a marginal, rotational pass rusher.

[2KBack]

Did KC not see what happened to our pass defense last year? Denver picked up a pototype cover corner, arguable the most talented in the league, and he often struggled due to lack of a consistant pass rush. So now since KC picked up the second best corner from an aging defense, all while ignoring the pass rush, everything is gonna be aces?

[Rascal]

I won't believe their defense is better till they show it...and so far they haven't shown it.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yeah, Surtain did have a lot of talent in Miami. Taylor, Madison, Brock, and of course Zach Thomas who, while a little older, is still a bad ass. Miami knew what you had to have for even the best corners to look good, a pass rush. Guess what? KC still dont have one good enough to cover the ineptitude's in that secondary and Surtain is going to look most foolish without all that help.

Our pass rush was better than Miami's last year. Next!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

I won't believe their defense is better till they show it...and so far they haven't shown it.

I agree. Our D looked good in preseason last year. The last two weeks have been nice, but worthless unless it carries over into the regular season.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Did KC not see what happened to our pass defense last year? Denver picked up a pototype cover corner, arguable the most talented in the league, and he often struggled due to lack of a consistant pass rush. So now since KC picked up the second best corner from an aging defense, all while ignoring the pass rush, everything is gonna be aces?

Our pass rush was pretty good. How many times do I have to say it? We didn't "ignore" it either, we brought in two speedy linebackers that can get to the QB and a defensive end.

[elsid13]

Our pass rush was better than Miami's last year. Next!


What are you smoking???? How do come up with that statement.

[Bronco LB 59]

Our pass rush was better than Miami's last year. Next!


BULLS*IT!

-The Chiefs surrendered the most passing yards in NFL.

-The Chiefs surrendered the most yards/per pass attempt of any team in the NFL.

-The Chiefs gave up the second most passing TDs in the NFL.


Bottom line, the Chiefs' pass rush stunk!

On the otherhand, Miami was sixth in the NFL in yards/per pass attempt defense.

[Rascal]

Sorry I gotta disagree.

While the chiefs defense was obviously horrible the pass rushing was probably one of their better parts. They ranked 7th in the NFL last year with 41 sacks (compared to Denver's 38 sacks). What their defense was horrible at was their secondary...and I mean God awful. While their pass rushing is still not top notch, it wasn't their biggest concern going into the offseason. Improving their secondary was as it should have been.

[Bronco9798]

How about we just say the entire defense sucked. That should cover everything.

I shouldn't of used the word "cover".

[Bob's your Information Minister]

What are you smoking???? How do come up with that statement.

We had more sacks. Our front seven generated more sacks. Now PLEASE shut up!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Sorry I gotta disagree.

While the chiefs defense was obviously horrible the pass rushing was probably one of their better parts. They ranked 7th in the NFL last year with 41 sacks (compared to Denver's 38 sacks). What their defense was horrible at was their secondary...and I mean God awful. While their pass rushing is still not top notch, it wasn't their biggest concern going into the offseason. Improving their secondary was as it should have been.

There you go folks.

[elsid13]

We had more sacks. Our front seven generated more sacks. Now PLEASE shut up!


KC had more sacks because the blitz everyone on every play. Now PLEASE go away.

[Bronco9798]

Actually, and I think Bob will agree, the Chiefs defense worse area has been the Linebackers the past several seasons. Their Linebackers have sucked.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

KC had more sacks because the blitz everyone on every play. Now PLEASE go away.

So? How does that not count as pass rush?

We didn't have corners that could cover the quick routes last year against a blitz. This year, we do.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Actually, and I think Bob will agree, the Chiefs defense worse area has been the Linebackers the past several seasons. They're linebackers have sucked.

Easily the worst area. Affected both the run D and the pass D. The back four was always compensating.

[Bronco LB 59]

Sorry I gotta disagree.

While the chiefs defense was obviously horrible the pass rushing was probably one of their better parts. They ranked 7th in the NFL last year with 41 sacks (compared to Denver's 38 sacks). What their defense was horrible at was their secondary...and I mean God awful. While their pass rushing is still not top notch, it wasn't their biggest concern going into the offseason. Improving their secondary was as it should have been.

Those stat statistics are so flawed. Did you see how many times Gunther had to blitz last season just to save his defense's tail? We are talking about dead last in the league in average pass attempt. It takes more than a bad secondary to accomplish that feat.

Who by the way are the Chiefs' standout pass rushers? Name them. Who on this defensive line puts heat on the QB without help from blitzes? Jared Allen? Yes, he had 9 sacks last season but half the time he was playing himself out of the run plays by charging up field going after the quarterback.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Alright guys, enough. We were THISCLOSE in a handful of games last year and we've made major upgrades. Stop reading into preseason games and wait until they count, mmmkay?

[FADERPROOF]

Alright guys, enough. We were THISCLOSE in a handful of games last year and we've made major upgrades. Stop reading into preseason games and wait until they count, mmmkay?

Leave.

[Rascal]

Let me put it this way...I would have take the chiefs pass rush last year over ours.

The stats are flawed...so do the Eagles not have a good pass rush because they blitz so much? Unless you have stats showing how many of each teams sacks came on a straight four man rush you cannot dismiss the stats that are available. And those that are available are the ones I just mentioned.

I didn't say it was just a bad secondary. As Bob and 9798 pointed out their LB's were just as awful as that secondary if not more so.

[FADERPROOF]

Let me put it this way...I would have take the chiefs pass rush last year over ours.

The stats are flawed...so do the Eagles not have a good pass rush because they blitz so much? Unless you have stats showing how many of each teams sacks came on a straight four man rush you cannot dismiss the stats that are available. And those that are available are the ones I just mentioned.

I didn't say it was just a bad secondary. As Bob and 9798 pointed out their LB's were just as awful as that secondary if not more so.

There's about 31 NFL teams' pass rush that I would've taken over ours, hence why we brought in about 5-6 new defensive linemen this offseason.

[Atlas]

CBs get beat that is the nature of the position. Surtain might be an good #1. He was a great #2. Hell, it's only preseason.

[OrangeShadow]

Our pass rush was better than Miami's last year. Next!


hes kinda right KC had 5 more sakcs last year to bad their dbs were horrible

[Bronco LB 59]

The stats are flawed...so do the Eagles not have a good pass rush because they blitz so much? Unless you have stats showing how many of each teams sacks came on a straight four man rush you cannot dismiss the stats that are available. And those that are available are the ones I just mentioned.

The only Chief that had more than 5 sacks was Jared Allen. You still can't name another pass rusher liked I asked you to.

Don't even mention the Eagles. They are a completely different situation and they are a bad comparision to KC. They have a dynamite front four with Kearse, Simon, Douglas, D. Walker, H. Thomas. Jim Johnson believes in Buddy Ryan style defense. He knows he can pull it off because his 3 Pro Bowl defensive backs can cover anybody on an island.

[crazyhorse]

Bob, you really are an easy mark.

[Mediator12]

Let me put it this way...I would have take the chiefs pass rush last year over ours.

The stats are flawed...so do the Eagles not have a good pass rush because they blitz so much? Unless you have stats showing how many of each teams sacks came on a straight four man rush you cannot dismiss the stats that are available. And those that are available are the ones I just mentioned.

I didn't say it was just a bad secondary. As Bob and 9798 pointed out their LB's were just as awful as that secondary if not more so.

Come on rascal. Its the risk versus the reward of blitzing. PHI could blitz that much BECAUSE they would not get toasted in coverage every other play. KC also needed to blitz that much because their LB's and DL were not good enough to stop the run out of a base defense as thier 29th yards per rush average indicated.

I know Denver's stats but have not compiled KC's and could care less about it. I know for a fact though they blitzed 40% of the time last year on First down. That is pathetic excuse for Run Defense at the expense of long TD passes.

[DivineLegion]

Madison has always been the better corner. Not to mention the talent he had around him all those years in MIA.

They had quite the D-line...hows the chefs D-line BoB?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

They had quite the D-line...hows the chefs D-line BoB?

Our D-line had more sacks than them.

[Ballhawk]

Our D-line had more sacks than them.

I could care less about last seasons stats, I would take the Miami front 4 over KCs 10 outa 10, and if you wouldn't you are a fool.

[plummerrox]

Every corner gets beat. It happens.

I'm more concerned about the four other slant plays that he gave up. The Chiefs appeared to be doing something odd with their corners last night. They were playing off the ball all night instead of getting up in the face.

Gunther's orders. ???

I doubt the same thing happens when the games count.


What will happen when the games count?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

What will happen when the games count?

I imagine Surtain will be up in their face, bustin' sh*t. I think Gunther wanted to see who could play soft zones the best last night, or something. ???

[listopencil]

“I couldn’t really find the ball,” Surtain said. “I lost the ball in the lights.”



He obviously needs to work on his Game Day Concentration.

[Bronco9798]

One weekend Jonathan Quinn was couch-bound and channel-surfing, wishing he could be out there on that football field.

The next weekend, he was. Behind the feel-good story of the journeyman quarterback who gets a second chance to live his dream, however, lurk some worrisome signs for the team that made the emergency call to him.

True enough, the Kansas City Chiefs could have beaten the Seattle Seahawks instead of losing 23-17. Quinn had three shots from the 9-yard line in the final seconds Saturday night.

But with all the other problems apparently facing the Chiefs, it matters little whether they're 0-3 or 1-2 going into their final exhibition game Friday night at St. Louis.

Why exactly did Quinn play all but the first two series? Is Trent Green's mystery injury more serious than thought? When will Green's regular backup, Todd Collins, get back from the hand injury he sustained in the first exhibition game?

Why did cornerback Patrick Surtain get beaten so many times by Seattle quarterback Matt Hasselbeck? Surtain is one of the key offseason acquisitions who are supposed to upgrade a miserable defense.

Another is linebacker Kendrell Bell. But when will he play? The outside linebacker still has not appeared in a preseason game as coaches insist on keeping him benched until he is fully healed. He played in only three games for Pittsburgh in 2004, hobbled by a groin injury. He also has shoulder and ankle troubles and is still bothered by an arthritic shoulder.

If Bell had been in, perhaps Hasselbeck and the first-team Seahawks offense would not have passed for 198 yards against the Chiefs starters. Surtain was burned on a 36-yard touchdown pass to Darrell Jackson, who had seven catches for 99 yards.

"I couldn't really find the ball," Surtain said. "I lost the ball in the lights."

Jackson also beat Surtain on another play but Hasselbeck overthrew him.

"There are some things I can get better at," said Surtain, a two-time Pro-Bowler with Miami. "That's what preseason is for. You're going to get beat once in a while. But the good players learn from their mistakes."

Green was flawless in his first possession, going 5-for-5 and capping a quick TD drive with a short touchdown pass to tight end Tony Gonzalez. But he was intercepted on his seventh pass and never heard from again.

Although he missed no practice time, he had been bothered all week by what was described as numbness in his lower leg and foot. Then when he was intercepted on his seventh pass, he was stepped on.

Green insisted he was fine.

"Going through warmups, this thing was kind of nagging me a little bit and I wanted to see how the first couple of drives went," he said. "When I got stepped on, it was like, `Why push it any further?'

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8781024 for the rest.

[Garcia Bronco]

I imagine Surtain will be up in their face, bustin' sh*t. I think Gunther wanted to see who could play soft zones the best last night, or something. ???

The thing that you don't have that made Surtain effective is Jason Taylor and Zack Thomas...you don't have players anywhere close to that level.

[Clockwork Orange]

"There are some things I can get better at," said Surtain, a two-time Pro-Bowler with Miami. "That's what preseason is for. You're going to get beat once in a while.

Hmmm, interesting.

Whenever Champ got beat last year no one subscribed to this line of thinking, it was just time to pile on for rival fans and Portis widowers.

Get ready Chef fans. Doesn't matter if Surtain goes full games without having much thrown his way (as Champ did), everyone is going to magnify his mistakes and be overly critical each time he gets beat (as they did with Champ).

It sucks, but that seems to be the way things work.

[phibacka31]

Another very important thing to point out is how many points did th echefs D give up conpared to the Dolphins? One real main reason the chefs had more sacks is because they were out there on long TD drives by the other team. They surrendered too many points, pretty much every other time the team got the ball. O they got a great d line to be able to do that, LOL. Honestly ot's not just the sacks that make a D line. Look how many points they gave up, and on LONG drives. They had more oppurtunities to get to the QB end of story. !Booya!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

The thing that you don't have that made Surtain effective is Jason Taylor and Zack Thomas...you don't have players anywhere close to that level.

That's retarded. What about last week, numbnuts?

[SNR_Chief]

Better he gets burned now than when games count.

Who was that all-pro corner who gave up several large plays despite being advertised as an "automatic shut-down corner?"

CBs get burned. There's no such thing as a shut down CB. Surtain will get burned this year. So will Bailey. And every other guy in the NFL.

[Garcia Bronco]

That's retarded. What about last week, numbnuts?


I'm serious...your d-line is weak and continues to be that way.

[Raider Bill]

real main reason the chefs had more sacks is because they were out there on long TD drives by the other team


Actually they weren't. Somehow the Chiefs wound up with a worse defense than us while leading the league in time of possession.

I thought I heard a quote from Dickie V that they gave up 70 percent of their yardage on 20% of the snaps.

That's just a by product of all the 8 man fronts Cunningham uses.


They got a lot of stops for loss and sacks because they played a real "feast or famine" style.

[ZachKC]

After registering 3 sacks in his first NFL game, Carlos Hall tallied only 9 in the following 2 seasons and 15 games. He's a marginal, rotational pass rusher.
Do we get to play this game with the Browncos past? Or are the Broncos the only teams where players can improve?

[ZachKC]

Whenever Champ got beat last year no one subscribed to this line of thinking,
Because in preseason you folks built him up so much you convinced yourselves it wouldn't happen to him.

You have to remember how out of touch a lot of those posts and threads became. I think its only natural that there was a lot of backlash when the ball got taken to the house a few times on his watch. I don't think you will find anyone on this board including a rival who doesn't think Bailey isn't good.

[Clockwork Orange]

Because in preseason you folks built him up so much you convinced yourselves it wouldn't happen to him.

You have to remember how out of touch a lot of those posts and threads became. I think its only natural that there was a lot of backlash when the ball got taken to the house a few times on his watch. I don't think you will find anyone on this board including a rival who doesn't think Bailey isn't good.

Oh, I know exactly what you mean. Those are the same types who make signing Courtney Brown out to be like signing Reggie White in his prime. Kind of like a certain someone around here who makes landing Sammy Knight the equivalent of getting a young Ronnie Lott.

Of course there's also the ones around here (and I'm talking about Bronco fans) who wanted Champ to fail so that they could justify their opposition to the Portis trade.

I have no problem with these guys getting criticized for a bad game, that comes with the territory. But it seems that we've got people who latch on to that bad game and nothing else matters. That's what we went through with Champ last year. He did an amazing job against Mushin Muhammed and Andre Johnson. Drew Brees basically avoided him for two games and other teams did the same. But what does everyone talk about? The Monday Night game against Cincy and the snow game against the Fade.

It's not fair, but Surtain will likely get the same treatment. He'll do his job beautifully for weeks at a time, but as soon as someone beats him deep or for a touchdown, people are going to burn that into their memories and bring it up any time his name is mentioned.

Like I said, it sucks, but that seems to be the way it goes.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Hey Bob, why are taking it so personal. You do know that this is a Bronco Fan site. You know that you would be taken out to the "WoodShed" for saying stupid.

[watermock]

It's the National Media that thinks that Denver threw all it's eggs in one basket with Clarett and the DL moves. On the contrary, it was in Cleveland that C. Brown and Warren were expected to save the franchise. Here, they will be asked to contribute in a deep rotation. Same goes for Clarett. Denver has 4 running backs, plus Cecil Sapp if he makes the team can play RB along with FB, but I dunno if his time is up. The point is, all our eggs are not in one basket with any of these moves.

[Bronco LB 59]

Do we get to play this game with the Browncos past? Or are the Broncos the only teams where players can improve?

I already broke down the histories of the Browncos on an individual basis. Feel free to read it and comeback with your weak ****.

http://www.orangemane.com/BB/showpost.php?p=721520&postcount=66

[wabbit]

It's the National Media that thinks that Denver threw all it's eggs in one basket with Clarett and the DL moves. On the contrary, it was in Cleveland that C. Brown and Warren were expected to save the franchise. Here, they will be asked to contribute in a deep rotation. Same goes for Clarett. Denver has 4 running backs, plus Cecil Sapp if he makes the team can play RB along with FB, but I dunno if his time is up. The point is, all our eggs are not in one basket with any of these moves.

That's very true...and the moves are all analyzed on the surface it seems...without regard to the depth.

Clarett was a clunker, but it was an honest gamble with a comp pick.

I wasn't thrilled with it at the time, but I'm not all that upset considering the likely contributions from Williams, Paymah, Foxworth & Myers...a damned good draft by any measure.

[ZachKC]

That's very true...and the moves are all analyzed on the surface it seems...without regard to the depth.

Clarett was a clunker, but it was an honest gamble with a comp pick.

I wasn't thrilled with it at the time, but I'm not all that upset considering the likely contributions from Williams, Paymah, Foxworth & Myers...a damned good draft by any measure.
Your highest praise was based on someone's preseason speculation about a player who you later said was inconsistant.

Courtney Brown...HOORAY!

The rest are guys that seemed to be about caliber of Carlos Hall. Roleplayers...roatation guys But the Broncos are the only team where a guy can improve his game. I am not sure if Hall will pan out that well but you have to admit coming from you it is pretty funny just throwing out a guy because his past football history is married with inconsistant play. Even more so after reading your break down.

[wabbit]

I assume this rambling babble had some kind of built-in insult, but given your inbility to articulate, it simply came through as most of your posts

Insult...or rubbish

Carry on

[ZachKC]

I assume this rambling babble had some kind of built-in insult, but given your inbility to articulate, it simply came through as most of your posts

Insult...or rubbish

Carry on
I am sorry you are so insecure...its tough man. Everyone has their stuff. But unleashing it up me on such a consistant basis makes you look like a fool.

[Atlas]

Your highest praise was based on someone's preseason speculation about a player who you later said was inconsistant.

Courtney Brown...HOORAY!

The rest are guys that seemed to be about caliber of Carlos Hall. Roleplayers...roatation guys But the Broncos are the only team where a guy can improve his game. I am not sure if Hall will pan out that well but you have to admit coming from you it is pretty funny just throwing out a guy because his past football history is married with inconsistant play. Even more so after reading your break down.

Warren will be a monster. Myers and Ecuban are solid and anything Denver gets from Brown will be icing on the cake.

[Bronco LB 59]

Your highest praise was based on someone's preseason speculation about a player who you later said was inconsistant.

Pro Football Weekly doesn't rate players by "potential". Warren was coming off his best season in 2002 and was a big part of Cleveland getting into the postseason that year.

The rest are guys that seemed to be about caliber of Carlos Hall. Roleplayers...roatation guys But the Broncos are the only team where a guy can improve his game. I am not sure if Hall will pan out that well but you have to admit coming from you it is pretty funny just throwing out a guy because his past football history is married with inconsistant play. Even more so after reading your break down.

Carlos Hall was a good signing by Kansas City. I never said it was a bad signing. I was responding to Boob's suggestion that he was going to be a difference making pass rusher up front.

Ekuban and Engelberger led their respective teams in sacks last season and now they are here in reserve, swingman roles. I don't view their past as inconsistent at all.

[Cito Pelon]

Chief fans make a lot of noise.

[ZachKC]

Chief fans make a lot of noise.
Nothing compared to the noise Denver fans make playing the victim card. The team to team smack....the Chiefs suck type stuff. I totally understand. Its part of the schtick.

But the way you guys cry about things every time a media report comes out is incredible. Thats only a small part of it. Whats up with the victim stuff from Denver? I really do not understand it.

[Atlas]

Nothing compared to the noise Denver fans make playing the victim card. The team to team smack....the Chiefs suck type stuff. I totally understand. Its part of the schtick.

But the way you guys cry about things every time a media report comes out is incredible. Thats only a small part of it. Whats up with the victim stuff from Denver? I really do not understand it.


I don't cry about the medias lack of respect but I find it strange. Denver will be a very good team this year. If you don't see that your just not paying attention. I don't think the media is paying attention. Seems like every article was just a copy of the one just before it. Just wait Zach you'll be admiting you were wrong about Denver or you will stop showing up on the board. Big heaps of Crow pie are being cooked for all the Bronco doubters and haters, I'll save a piece for you.

[ZachKC]

I don't cry about the medias lack of respect but I find it strange. Denver will be a very good team this year. If you don't see that your just not paying attention. I don't think the media is paying attention. Seems like every article was just a copy of the one just before it. Just wait Zach you'll be admiting you were wrong about Denver or you will stop showing up on the board. Big heaps of Crow pie are being cooked for all the Bronco doubters and haters, I'll save a piece for you.
I don't think Denver will have a bad team. I just don't think they will be good enough to it to the level you folks want it to be and in some ways deserve.

I have a long history of showing up after tough losses or things of that nature, that won't happen anytime soon.

[watermock]

There has been more crap thrown at Denver than at any time I have ever been covering them. It's all been about Shanahan not winning a playoff game, Shanahan sucks, he can't win without John Elway.

Well, people in the know understand the team had serious problems. Poor special teams, bad draft choices, moody QB, injured superstar RB, poor first round CB's, horrible FA aquisitions like IHOP.

So far this year, from my perspective, almost all the offseason moves have been solid. For every Kendrell Bell Chef fan brings up, I can bring up C. Brown. We didn't give Brown a huge bonus! Surtain? The lights get in his eyes?

Anyway, if you make moves that are 75 percent correct, you win. New England has done that. They stumbled onto Brady, but he was on the roster.

When the media hammers our moves, many are in the dark years. I don't see a ton of reason to expect some dominant defense just because you fell into possibly the best pick in the draft in D. Johnson. We didn't get to draft that high, remember?

I have never discounted the Chefs. S.D. surprised me, but that window is closing. Your might make one more run. Oakland has no chance.

[Mediator12]

Your highest praise was based on someone's preseason speculation about a player who you later said was inconsistant.

Courtney Brown...HOORAY!

The rest are guys that seemed to be about caliber of Carlos Hall. Roleplayers...roatation guys But the Broncos are the only team where a guy can improve his game. I am not sure if Hall will pan out that well but you have to admit coming from you it is pretty funny just throwing out a guy because his past football history is married with inconsistant play. Even more so after reading your break down.

Zach, this is too funny. Yes the Chiefs could use some legit DL pass rushers, so Hall could make a difference in KC.

However, Hall has never been able to play Run defense worth a crap! He is nowhere near a complete DE. With Jared Allen looking to be a fulltime RDE, why get another RDE with no Run stopping ability when you have no LDE with Pass rush ability?

Conversely, EngelBerger and Ekuban can both play both RDE and LDE and DEN wil not lose anything in the runnning game. Both guys had decent numbers of Sacks too. That does not even include Gerard Warren who has been a complete Monster this Preseason. He will definitely push Jamal Williams as the Best DT in the West.

Carlos Hall is simply a one trick pony who has not been very good at that the last two years. Sure he can improve Zack. Anyone can. But the Chiefs have not exactly improved anyone on defense the last five years have they? On the other hand, Coyer took six Street FA's in 2003 and put together the fourth ranked Defense. He has sent a player to the Probowl at every defensive position but DT. See how that logic might be flawed?

[Tom A Hawk]

The Chiefs' defensive line is going to put Surtain in a bad spot all season long. Jared Allen is the only one on the front four that can rush the passer, but his run defense makes him a one dimensional situational pass rusher. Without blitzing, the Chiefs won't be able to put heat on the quarterback this season.

And this is the reason I haven't been ranting and raving about the Chiefs D.
The changes in the rules make the suspect line even more so. I am somewhat optimistic from a homer's view....from a realist view, I fairly concerned.

[labronx]

Our pass rush was better than Miami's last year. Next!


This one is an instant classic!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

However, Hall has never been able to play Run defense worth a crap! He is nowhere near a complete DE.

HAHAHA! Tell that to Walter Jones. Carlos Hall pushed him so far into the backfield on Saturday night, the RB had nowhere to go.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Carlos Hall was a good signing by Kansas City. I never said it was a bad signing. I was responding to Boob's suggestion that he was going to be a difference making pass rusher up front.

I NEVER suggested that. The only thing I suggested was that he was going to upgrade the pass rush.

[Mediator12]

HAHAHA! Tell that to Walter Jones. Carlos Hall pushed him so far into the backfield on Saturday night, the RB had nowhere to go.

One play BOB. One Play. Check any reports on the guy and you will see him listed as a questionble run defender. Plus, No doubt the chiefs were blitzing weren't they? Otherwise, Walter would have ate him alive.

You bring so little in the way of thought here why do you even try?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

One play BOB. One Play. Check any reports on the guy and you will see him listed as a questionble run defender. Plus, No doubt the chiefs were blitzing weren't they? Otherwise, Walter would have ate him alive.

You bring so little in the way of thought here why do you even try?

What? It was one on one. Carlos Hall pwned Walter Jones. End of story.

When and IF Carlos Hall starts getting beat against the run, I'll agree with you. I never watched him in Tennessee.

[Saulbadguy]

.

[Tredici]

Better than being the Pre - Season Chumps.

[Mediator12]

What? It was one on one. Carlos Hall pwned Walter Jones. End of story.

When and IF Carlos Hall starts getting beat against the run, I'll agree with you. I never watched him in Tennessee.

Again, If he was rushing the QB on first down how is that good run defense??? It is not good technique to drive the LT towards the QB as the RB will open a seam off left Tackle. Ask your Buddy Jared Allen about that as that is what MIN did to him for three LONG running plays.

And again, how does one play make the guy a good run defender??? If he misses the next two assignments and allows long completions for Hasselback does that make him a good overall player? It still makes him a one trick pony on a defense that can only stop the run by Blitzing and then GETS BURNED deep in the passing game.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Again, If he was rushing the QB on first down how is that good run defense??? It is not good technique to drive the LT towards the QB as the RB will open a seam off left Tackle. Ask your Buddy Jared Allen about that as that is what MIN did to him for three LONG running plays.

And again, how does one play make the guy a good run defender??? If he misses the next two assignments and allows long completions for Hasselback does that make him a good overall player? It still makes him a one trick pony on a defense that can only stop the run by Blitzing and then GETS BURNED deep in the passing game.

He wasn't rushing the QB. He was creating penetration. Penetration on running plays is the stick that stirs the drink.

WHO CARES! ITS PRESEASON! SHUT UP!

CAN THE GAMES START COUNTING? PLEASE! I DON'T CARE IF THE CHIEFS SUCK, I JUST WANT TO KNOW WHERE I STAND! ARRRRRRGH!

[BigRedChief]

Come on guys. Calling Surtain a bust for one bad game? A little too much homer for even you guys.

[Bronco LB 59]

Come on guys. Calling Surtain a bust for one bad game? A little too much homer for even you guys.

Surtain is a fine cornerback, but seeing him get smoked like a blunt by a possession receiver is pretty funny.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Preseason is meaningless.

[Bronx33]

Preseason is meaningless.

Sure it is but if i had a choice i would like my team to go into regular season on a high note vs a low note... ;D

[Crushaholic]

Come on guys. Calling Surtain a bust for one bad game? A little too much homer for even you guys.

I agree that Surtain had a bad game. He HAS turned into a good pick-up for the Chefs. He can't play both sides of the field at once, though.

[Crushaholic]

CAN THE GAMES START COUNTING? PLEASE!

I couldn't agree more. September 11th is STILL too far away...

[Rock Chalk]

I always enjoy threads where the words Chiefs and sucks are both used in the title.

[Pat Bowlen]

.
I wouldn't mind purchasing some of your artwork, if you're interested. We're always active in the community with charity work, soup kitchens, etc. And, as much as it pains me to keep fans of the Raiders alive, I was thinking I would arrange some sort of benefit to help keep some starving homeless people warm in December.

I guess I'm just wondering how big your canvases are, how long they might burn, and how much you would want for them. Thanks a lot.

[Bronco LB 59]

Preseason is meaningless.


Your existence is meaningless, Star Wars geek.

[Rascal]

Surtain is a fine cornerback, but seeing him get smoked like a blunt by a possession receiver is pretty funny.

Sorry but I agree with the chief fans here much to my displeasure.

It's a preseason game and means nothing. If it continues into the regular season then fine blast them and him to hell...but until then I'd curb my comments and enthusiasm on their potential suckiness.

[elsid13]

Sorry but I agree with the chief fans here much to my displeasure.

It's a preseason game and means nothing. If it continues into the regular season then fine blast them and him to hell...but until then I'd curb my comments and enthusiasm on their potential suckiness.

Come on Rascal throw him under the bus, it’s the internet it not like we have the creditability of PFT or ESPN. Oh, wait we have more darn it!