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View Full Version : Foxsports.com Rankings for '05...TOTAL BS


Rulon Velvet Jones
08-25-2005, 07:17 AM
The most idiotic thing you may ever read. (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/4802386?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=5)
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Let's address the criteria in a nutshell:

1. Last season provides a starting point, nothing else.
2. Off-season moves are key, combined with coaching and scheme changes.
3. Preseason stats mean next to nothing, except in rare cases.

There, not too complicated, right? Time for kickoff.


POWER RANKINGS - PRESEASON EDITION
Rk Team '04 Final Rank Rising/Falling Comment
1. Patriots 1st SAME Will the Patriots go 14-2 again? Not with a schedule including seven games against 10-game winners in 2004, in addition to four others against strong contenders (Bills twice, Panthers, Chiefs). Expect 3-5 losses as the Pats transition from an off-season of upheaval with the loss of both coordinators and their defensive heart in Tedy Bruschi. But don't count out a three-peat.
2. Eagles
2nd SAME Many predict doom for Team Turmoil, as some say they missed their window to win a Super Bowl. But rock solid leadership with the tone set by Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb have calmed the troubled waters, even after the Terrell Owens circus and Brian Westbrook holdout. Together again, Philly's Big Three on offense complements Jim Johnson's loaded defense with seven Pro Bowl-caliber starters and a stable of backups who could start on most teams.
3. Colts

4th
(+1) Expect more record chases for Peyton Manning and his scoring orgy of an offense, but can the Colts "D" up enough under coach Tony Dungy? The front office did its part in the draft by adding defensive rookies known for big-time hits, but the full effects may not be felt until the season's second half. The real mission? Win home-field advantage in the AFC to avoid another January road trip to snowy New England.
4. Chargers 5th
(+1) With Antonio Gates signed for all but Week 1 against Dallas, the Chargers are poised for another Super Bowl run. QB Drew Brees, currently on a one-year contract, is oddly playing for his job after a Pro Bowl year. It helps to have the NFL's most talented back, LaDainian Tomlinson. They need a pass rush, which is where rookie Shawne Merriman comes in. October will be the litmus test as they face the Patriots, Steelers and Eagles over a four-week span.
5. Bills
10th
(+5) Hmm, in the Bills you have a team built around a turnover machine on defense (ranked No. 2 overall in 2004), excellent special teams (five kick/punt returns for TDs last year) and an offense led by a young, mobile QB (second-year J.P. Losman) surrounded by a stellar group of runners and receivers ... all set in a football-crazy city in the Northeast. Sounds a lot like last year's Steelers. If Losman is this year's Roethlisberger, watch out.
6. Jets
9th
(+3) If this team didn't "Schottenheimer" away a playoff game at Pittsburgh (Doug Brien wasn't the reason the Jets lost), the Jets would have replaced the Steelers in the AFC title game — and that was with a QB with an injured throwing arm. Chad Pennington is healthy and has his favorite target wearing green again (Laveranues Coles). Herm Edwards' defense is strong behind Jonathan Vilma and ex-Patriot Ty Law.
7. Panthers 12th
(+5) Only a slew of injuries mixed with a ridiculous first-half schedule kept the Panthers from the postseason in '04. But some positives were derived, like the team sticking together (credit to coach John Fox), Jake Delhomme's continued development and the emergence under emergency of rookie receiver Keary Colbert. IF the defense can keep its key guys out of the trainer's office (notice the big 'IF'), the Cats should win the NFC South.
8. Steelers

4th
(-4) Tough to drop a 15-1 team from a year ago to No. 8 in our preseason poll, but outside of the superb defense and special teams, the cracks are starting to show. At RB, Duce Staley is again battling injury while nearly-retired Jerome Bettis stated very publicly that he can't handle the same load as in 2004. Plus, the Steelers must replace starting WR Plaxico Burress, a free agency defector to the Giants. Suddenly Big Ben's support staff is weakening, which could lead to a sophomore slump.
9. Falcons

6th
(-3) This is a franchise headed in the right direction under heady head coach Jim Mora (he's no Junior), though Michael Vick and Co. remain one year away from the Super Bowl. The Falcons benefited from a major down year for the NFC in '04, but competition and the schedule will toughen this time around. But watch out in 2006, with Vick (another year in the West Coast offense under his belt) throwing to young receivers Michael Jenkins and Roddy White.
10. Ravens

11th
(+1) This defense could be even scarier than usual, with an ultra-motivated Ray Lewis the centerpiece of defensive coordinator Rex Ryan's new '46' defense. And this year, the Ravens actually have some receivers, thanks to free agent signee Derrick Mason and first-round pick Mark Clayton. But the jury is still way out on QB Kyle Boller, who has not given any reason for hope this preseason. The Ravens may need another historic year for the defense.
11. Vikings 18th
(+7) The Vikings will be united by one major cause — to prove they can win without Randy Moss. Daunte Culpepper is poised to prove he doesn't need Moss to be a great quarterback, and his collection of receivers should provide plenty of targets. Mike Tice will likely need to use all of his RBs as Michael Bennett can never stay healthy, but any success depends on an overhauled defense.
12. Chiefs
20th
(+8) The offense should again be unstoppable, as the Chiefs are geared around a machine fueled by one of the NFL's best O-lines, RBs Priest Holmes and Larry Johnson, plus uber-talented TEs Tony Gonzalez and youngster Kris Wilson. This is another team that could score in '04, but couldn't stop a high school squad. Free agent pickups Patrick Surtain and Sammy Knight add legitimacy to the secondary, and first-rounder Derrick Johnson looks like a franchise MLB.
13. Jaguars 19th
(+6) The Jags sport a great, young defense that was wasted a year ago thanks to an offense that ranked 29th in scoring. Enter another former USC assistant, Carl Smith, to coach the offense, and budding NFL star Byron Leftwich has already fallen in love with the QB-friendly attack. But can he and running back Fred Taylor, coming off major off-season knee surgery, stay healthy?
14. Seahawks 14th SAME The Seahawks' front office faced a daunting off-season, with nearly every key player on offense up for free agency. But they weathered a storm that included avoiding a holdout with TD-maker Shawn Alexander. Now No. 1 on the To Do list is repairing a broken defense that cost them a run at the Super Bowl. Rookie LBs Lofa Tatupu and Leroy Hill added with a healthy secondary will help, but maybe not enough to seriously contend.
15. Cardinals 26th
(+11) The Arizona Cardinals are no longer a punchline. A radical turnaround may be in order, if they can keep new QB Kurt Warner from laying down on the job. Only an iffy O-line can hold back an emerging offense, with second-round draft steal J.J. Arrington set to energize a once-dormant offense. Warner's young receivers might make him feel like an MVP again, but it's the overlooked defense (12th in fewest points allowed in '04) that will make Arizona a player in the NFC West.
16. Saints

13th
(-3) For an organization unable to shake the mediocrity label, this is the perfect spot in the rankings. Will Aaron Brooks be able to shake his maddening inconsistency under Mike Sheppard's "less is more" offense? Can the NFL's worst-ranked defense from 2004 figure out how to stop anybody? Who knows? What we do know is the Saints will field both potential and disappointment, gift-wrapped in another 8-8 season.
17. Bengals

16th
(-1) Bengals fans, feel free to admit you are Bengals fans this season. If the young defense, spearheaded by rookie LBs David Pollack and Odell Thurman, can give the offense a chance, Cincy might be headed for its first winning season since the first Bush administration. Doubters shouldn't stress about Carson Palmer's poor preseason to date, instead look forward to a young offense set to explode.
18. Raiders

25th
(+7) No. 18 is where Randy Moss's Vikings finished in our rankings last season, and it seems the right place to start for his new team. Adding Moss and RB Lamont Jordan will immediately catapult this offense to among the league's elite. All questions in Oakland surround a defense that gave up a whopping 27.6 points per game in 2004.
19. Rams
15th
(-4) First off, how classy is Hall of Fame lock Marshall Faulk by initiating the transition of Steven Jackson from backup to starting RB? This offense seems poised to resemble the production from their Super Bowl years, with Marc Bulger looking even more comfy behind center this summer. But the Rams didn't do enough on defense this off-season to push Mike Martz any higher.
20. Broncos 8th
(-12) This is a major fall from the penthouse for the Broncos. Questionable moves lowlighted their off-season — from using a third-round pick on Maurice Clarett (who may not make the team) to adding four down linemen from the NFL's worst rushing defense in 2004 (Browns). Mike Shanahan owns some talent on offense, but he seems to have missed on his key investments.
21. Lions
23rd
(+2) Matt Millen has been stocking his defensive cupboards with young talent in the last two drafts, and he may be in for a payoff soon. The offense looks promising too, if Detroit can get a full year of RB Kevin Jones and WRs Roy Williams, Charles Rogers and Mike Williams. If Joey Harrington can hold it together against some tough defenses early in the season, the Lions could be in the mix for an NFC wild-card spot.
22. Texans 21st
(-1) David Carr will silence some doubters in 2005, as Carr-to-Andre Johnson will be one of the league's top QB-WR connections. But the Texans failed to address their O-line issues from a year ago, when Houston allowed 49 sacks. The other interesting development is on defense, as the Texans cut loose two of their top three tacklers from last fall (LBs Jamie Sharper and Jay Foreman) in hopes of increasing their quickness.
23. Cowboys 27th
(+4) The Cowboys aren't ready to challenge the Eagles in the NFC East, but if they can protect Drew Bledsoe and Bill Parcell's shift to more of a 3-4 defense works, the Cowboys can again become respectable. It will help to have a full helping of RB Julius Jones, who ran for 819 yards and seven touchdowns in only half a season last year. If by November FOX NFL Sunday is producing features on Roy Williams and DeMarcus Ware, then Dallas will be a wild-card contender.
24. Packers 7th
(-17) How the once mighty have fallen. It's easy to second-guess dropping a team so low with Brett Favre on the roster, but the signs are not positive in Cheesehead Country. Favre is still Favre, and there are no lingering feelings from Javon Walker's threatened holdout this summer. But RB Ahman Green may be on the verge of breaking down and the defense is porous at best. Scary thought: Where would the Pack be if Favre (gasp) actually got hurt this season?
25. Bucs
24th
(-1) Whether or not Jon Gruden is on the "hot seat," the Tampa coach is under big pressure to halt an inglorious slide from Super Bowl champ to last place. The Bucs coach is absolutely giddy with excitement over first-round pick Carnell "Cadillac" Williams, and QB Brian Griese did complete an obscene 69.3 percent of his passes in '04. But an aging defense and dubious kicking situation need some remodeling work.
26. Redskins

17th
(-9) There's no other way to put it: Joe Gibbs' first season back in Washington was a disaster. But the parts are in stock for a rebound, though maybe not a playoff run. RB Clinton Portis is relieved the Skins have adjusted their running schemes to fit his cutback style, and Washington's defense should remain tough to penetrate. But too many questions surround the quarterback situation to give a blessing before the season kicks off.
27. Titans
22nd
(-5) 2004 was a snakebit season in Tennessee. In the first half, the passing game was hurt by injuries to QB Steve McNair. In the second half, the entire secondary was wiped out and fell apart in the process. Following a spring salary purge, the Titans still retain talent on offense and added longtime NCAA offensive guru Norm Chow to spice things up. The young defense will alternately make us cheer and cringe, sometimes in the same series. But coaches should keep all sharp objects away from brittle playmakers McNair, Chris Brown and Travis Henry.
28. Giants
29th
(+1) Give the Giants credit for trying to rebuild the right way, constructing a team around franchise quarterback Eli Manning. The problem is they spent so many draft picks in trading for Peyton's little bro that they could only add four draft picks to help the cause. Giving Eli another big target in Plaxico Burress should help, as would a healthy Jeremy Shockey. But can Michael Strahan find the Fountain of Youth?
29. Bears
28th
(-1) You know how every team is supposed to be feeling optimistic before the season? How fired up should Bears fans feel right now, with their starting QB out for the next 3-4 months with a broken ankle, and No. 4 overall pick Cedric Benson still holding out? The Bears' defense should be formidable, especially if it can get a full season out of Brian Urlacher. But why the heck wouldn't the Bears have brought in an experienced backup QB this spring?
30. Dolphins
30th SAME Nick Saban may have his work cut out for himself, but he already earns an A-plus for delicately managing the Ricky Williams comeback. Now at the very least, the Dolphins should have two strong running backs to give new offensive coordinator Scott Linehan some play-action passes to work with. While coach Saban knows Gus Frerotte or A.J. Feeley will not win a title anytime soon, the offense again has an identity. It's a start.
31. 49ers
32nd
(+1) We now know that rookie 49ers head honcho Mike Nolan can make the tough calls, judging by already making the No. 1 overall pick in the draft No. 2 on his own depth chart. But QB Alex Smith is clearly not yet ready to start, with incumbent Tim Rattay sporting a preseason passer rating 100 points higher than the Utah rookie (141.2 to 40.6) through two games. Expect the 49ers to pull off a few upsets with Rattay this season.
32. Browns 31st
(-1) Romeo, oh Romeo ... much luck to you. Frankly, the Browns were a total mess when Crennel arrived, but they may have chosen wisely in scoring Bill Belichick's righthand man to lead the revival. Kellen Winslow's off-season Evel Knievel impersonation didn't help matters, but rookie WR Braylon Edwards is already using his breakaway speed to fly up the depth chart. Hang in there, Dawg Pound. The healing has begun.
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Seriously, do any of these supposed "experts" do ANY frickin' research or are all their ideas just simply cut/paste? Oh wow! It's the "Broncos drafted Clarett and signed a bunch of Browns" comment again. HEY NUMBNUTS, MIX IN A GAME EVERY NOW AND THEN, HUH? I hate this crap.

Mediator12
08-25-2005, 07:18 AM
Already been Posted by Kaylore I think last night. Please merge Mr. MOD!

Spider
08-25-2005, 07:22 AM
well fox sports also gave us Tom Arnold as a sports talk show host .......

Raidersbane
08-25-2005, 07:47 AM
No analysis here, just a virtual cut and paste rewrite of what other braindead dimestore experts are saying.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 07:51 AM
I love how had we not brought in the Cleveland D-line and Jerry Rice, and kept an anemic D-Line and WR pos, we would be rated top 10. But with ADDITIONS that have massive upside and talent, we're worse off?

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 07:57 AM
The Bills are at #5 sporting a QB who has only embarassed himself this far?

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 07:57 AM
This writer is a genius... where's Mr. Info when you need him?

BroncoBuff
08-25-2005, 07:58 AM
well fox sports also gave us Tom Arnold as a sports talk show host .......

Yeah - whoever wrote that missed the boat for sure! Imagine he thinks Clarett was some sort of "big deal" acquisition that the team is somehow "banking on" for '05?

BTW - People keep forgetting that the Clarett pick was a "flyer" BECAUSE WE HAD JUST BEEN GIVEN TWO COMPENSATORY PICKS for '03 free agent losses!!! (one pick compensated for 'LOSING' Ian Gold .. tee hee .. ) Two compensatory picks was one more than anybody thought we'd get, so take a flyer!

That was BEFORE Dayne signed, too. And ANOTHER thing - Clarett is just a kid, and he's been outta football for 2 years . . . cut him some slack. He is the POSTER BOY for a practice squad spot, if his attitude is there, anyway.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 07:58 AM
Did you know... The Broncos talent pool and coaching staff are incredibly underrated?

BroncoBuff
08-25-2005, 08:01 AM
The Bills are at #5 sporting a QB who has only embarassed himself this far?

Losman has been pretty bad, eh? I've been pretty skeptical that their organization almost IMMEDIATELY gave J.P. the job - AS A ROOKIE - last year! We played them in pre-season last year, and their take was, "this is our guy."

I'm not the BIGGEST college football fan, but I do watch - and I never even heard of this Losman!

Bronco_Beerslug
08-25-2005, 08:31 AM
Losman has been pretty bad, eh? I've been pretty skeptical that their organization almost IMMEDIATELY gave J.P. the job - AS A ROOKIE - last year! We played them in pre-season last year, and their take was, "this is our guy."

I'm not the BIGGEST college football fan, but I do watch - and I never even heard of this Losman!
There's no choice when the other guy is Bledsoe.

And you will hear about Losman this year. With their defense and special teams and Willis they could really make some noise this year.


The Bills are at #5 sporting a QB who has only embarassed himself this far?
No, they traded Bledsoe.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 09:39 AM
There's no choice when the other guy is Bledsoe.

And you will hear about Losman this year. With their defense and special teams and Willis they could really make some noise this year.



No, they traded Bledsoe.

Im talking about Losman's performance so far this pre-season.

Billy Clyde Puckett
08-25-2005, 10:24 AM
I can't see why Bills get so much love other than they are an east coast team. Losman has a reputation as an uncoachable coach killer. McGahee is excellent when healthy, but that is always a question. Bills have no depth and defense has not been exposed to the better offensive teams.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-25-2005, 10:35 AM
I can't see why Bills get so much love other than they are an east coast team. Losman has a reputation as an uncoachable coach killer. McGahee is excellent when healthy, but that is always a question. Bills have no depth and defense has not been exposed to the better offensive teams.
The Bills started out 0-4 and finished 9-3 with a statue at QB. 2 of their losses were to the Patriots. They beat the Seahawks, Bengals, Jets, Rams and barely lost to the Steelers. They have a real chance to be good this year. 6 ST TDs and they have a GOOD D. If Losman plays well they will compete for the division title.

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 10:38 AM
@20?

Dont be ridiculous.

Denver may not be the best team in the league but they aren't the 20ieth best.

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2005, 10:55 AM
Adrian Hasenmayer is the NFL producer at FOXSports.com and can be reached at ahasenmayer@foxsports.com.

NaptownChief
08-25-2005, 11:10 AM
@20?

Dont be ridiculous.

Denver may not be the best team in the league but they aren't the 20ieth best.


25th? 30th? Come on Alec I don't think you guys are quite that bad. Have a little faith.

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 11:10 AM
25th? 30th? Come on Alec I don't think you guys are quite that bad. Have a little faith.
Oh you got jokes?

jonny1
08-25-2005, 11:14 AM
The Bills started out 0-4 and finished 9-3 with a statue at QB. 2 of their losses were to the Patriots. They beat the Seahawks, Bengals, Jets, Rams and barely lost to the Steelers. They have a real chance to be good this year. 6 ST TDs and they have a GOOD D. If Losman plays well they will compete for the division title.

They lost to the Steeler's JV squad. They were playing for a wild card spot, the Steelers were resting everybody, and they still lost, AT HOME!

watermock
08-25-2005, 11:16 AM
That's good print for the locker room. I wouldn't place Denver less than 12.

20 is just rediculous.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-25-2005, 11:24 AM
They lost to the Steeler's JV squad. They were playing for a wild card spot, the Steelers were resting everybody, and they still lost, AT HOME!

Steelers are pretty deep but the Bills blew that game. Of course only a few teams every year can boast of no games where they didn't come to play. Steelers had 5 FGs and a fumble recovery for a TD in that game to win it. Bledsoe was sacked his usual 3 times and threw an interception and a fumble.
Bills defense only allowed the Steelers 260 total yds.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 11:37 AM
The Bills started out 0-4 and finished 9-3 with a statue at QB. 2 of their losses were to the Patriots. They beat the Seahawks, Bengals, Jets, Rams and barely lost to the Steelers. They have a real chance to be good this year. 6 ST TDs and they have a GOOD D. If Losman plays well they will compete for the division title.

They barely lost to the Steelers SECOND STRING.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 11:38 AM
Steelers are pretty deep but the Bills blew that game. Of course only a few teams every year can boast of no games where they didn't come to play. Steelers had 5 FGs and a fumble recovery for a TD in that game to win it. Bledsoe was sacked his usual 3 times and threw an interception and a fumble.
Bills defense only allowed the Steelers 260 total yds.

2nd team steelers... again. Like starting and playing a team in the pre-season... and losing.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-25-2005, 11:40 AM
They barely lost to the Steelers SECOND STRING.
Lets see, you addressed this 13 minutes after I already posted a reply to jonny one who posted the same thing 24 minutes ago.


2nd team steelers... again. Like starting and playing a team in the pre-season... and losing.
Don't be ignorant (like your takes on MA show). Every team in the NFL losses games to inferior teams.

Popps
08-25-2005, 11:41 AM
Ravens at #10?? Sure, makes sense.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 11:42 AM
Lets see, you addressed this 13 minutes after I already posted a reply to jonny one who posted the same thing 24 minutes ago.

Yup hadnt seen that yet, even the Bills coach came out after THAT game and said if they couldnt beat the Steelers 2nd teamers, they didnt deserve to be in the play offs. Cant argue with that.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 11:42 AM
Ravens at #10?? Sure, makes sense.

I think the Ravens will be good... with kyle boller not #10 good, but good never the less.

JCMElway
08-25-2005, 11:44 AM
Oh you got jokes?

LMAO!

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 11:44 AM
ESPN has us at #15.

Garcia Bronco
08-25-2005, 11:45 AM
I've got us as number 1...but what can I say....I'm completely bias.

Kaylore
08-25-2005, 12:35 PM
:laugh: What a funny read. Now watch, even when we are four games up into the season, they won't move the ratings around much. The media locks onto how they think things are then spin what they see to try and match it to what they think.

I just wish the rest of the league thought we were worse than the saints and cards, but I know there isn't a team out there that is looking past us.

Kaylore
08-25-2005, 12:39 PM
Mike Shanahan owns some talent on offense, but he seems to have missed on his key investments.

This is the funniest because the complete opposite is true right now. Our D is a lock, its our offense that is up in the air so to speak.

and first-rounder Derrick Johnson looks like a franchise MLB.
MLB? :giggle: I'm surprised the Chiefs haven't noticed this obvious error.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 01:04 PM
Hey Khan, this was written by someone who KNOWS his football. He doesnt just read headlines and recycle unoriginal garbage... Hes seen the future and sees that the Chiefs will rotate DJ to MLB. I mean, what can you expect from someone who couldnt even get a job writing for NFL.com?

orange 4 life
08-25-2005, 01:52 PM
I've got us as number 1...but what can I say....I'm completely bias.

you know, i dont think you need to be bias to have us ranked high.
top five for sure.

its REALLY frickin simple, but these national east coast sports writers are just too stupid to see it.
to boot, they know NOTHING about our team other than the fact that we picked up jerry rice, drafted clarrett, and got 4 brownies.

you think theyve watched even ONE MINUTE of any of our practices or games?
you bet your ass they didnt.
what they say doesnt mean sh!t, and frankly, im sick of hearing it.

lets lay it out for the slow so called "experts".
here's a list of FACTS.

- our team was 10-6 the last two years.
- our team had poor efficiency ratings in both turnovers and redzone offense (even more reason to be impressed with 10-6)
- we were the only team IN THE NFL last year to be top FIVE on offense AND defense
- we were three PLAYS away from being 13-3 and running away with the division.
- we once again had an inordinate number of key injuries, and lacked the depth to overcome them all.

these are facts. still, we were 10-6 and made the playoffs both years.

now, we head into this season.
we have our ENTIRE offense back, with a couple small differences.
we have alexander instead of carswell at tight end. advantage this year
we have anderson and bell instead of droughns and griffin at TB- advantage this year
we have plummer in his third year in a system Elway himseld said he "didnt truly feel comfortable in until his 3rd year" (which of course was '97 ironically)- advantage this year, especially when you figure ELEVEN tipped ball int's isnt likely to happen again (knocking)
we have lelie another year experienced, and watts in his second year (who should be fine once he cures the dropsies, which if you remember rice, smith, and lelie ALL suffered from also)
we have rice as an option, and if he goes, we have adams, luke, and devoe looking better than expected- advantage this year
we have carlisle replacing neal. neal may have had more ability, but he also had more holding calls. tie

so, where are we at on offense? improved. doesnt take a rocket scientist to see that

how about defense?
pressuring the qb (which of course CREATES turnovers) was the big problem right?
well, we have EVERYONE back from last year except an EXTREMELY overhyped and overpaid hayward.
we added 4 guys from cleveland, all of which have alot of natural ability, and all of which at one point or another during camp have impressed. fact is, only 2 need make ANY impact for the deals to have made sense.
we have pryce and ellis back, BOTH of which are probowl caliber players when healthy, and both of whom barely played last year.
advantage- are you kidding? we're SO MUCH improved in this area its friggin STAGGERING that so many (EVEN LOCALS) dont see it.
we return our linebackers, except spragan goes away and ian gold returns- big advantage to this year, and last years linebackers were pretty dang good.
this years squad could be the best in the nfl.
secondary? well, we lost a couple guys here. kennedy and herndon were starters, but then again, herndon wasnt SUPPOSED to be now was he? the guy who was supposed to be the starter is back this season and healthy (knock knock). at safety, there are MANY close to the team who thought fergy was the better player a year ago, so kennedy's loss isnt severe. as for backups, the kids from '04 have a year under their belt and the kids from '05 look OUTSTANDING for first year guys. advantage this year.

special teams? not rocket science either. sauerbrun or baker? nuff said
burns and gold (if he plays special teams) back.
rookies looking ALOT better than a year ago.
easy enough. advantage this year.

where are we at guys?

oh yeah, we're at a team who was 10-6 the last two years and is NOTICEABLY improved.
doesnt seem too tough to figure out how this will play out.
schedule? whatever. every year people b!tch about it, and every year the teams you thought would be great fizzle, others step up, etc. welcome to parody. the schedule is fine. the toughest games are at home.

rest of division? well, the raiders got moss.......and oh yeah, they got moss......hmmmmm
fine, theyll be imrpoved in the running game a bit too.
fact is, moss isnt a one man team, and more imortant, he's a DEPENDANT player. who's he dependant on again? kerry collins? nuff said
ps- their defense is terrible
the chiefs? well, the offense is a year older, the wr's are still nobodies, and the defense, while improved, aint improved enough.
the chargers? give me a friggin break. can you say fluke? fine, theyre a decent team.....and a schottenheimer team.....and a team with a qb thats a brian griese....but less mobile and less talented. remember a few years ago when the bears had double digit wins and were in the playoffs?
remember what happened the next year? i give you the '05 chargers.

end of story, end of rant.

we will win the division. just gives us the damn playoff spot now.
pencil?
nope, you can go ahead and PEN that in.
thats it from me. sorry to be so long.

jake

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 01:54 PM
Great post, Orange 4 Life. rep.

Ballhawk
08-25-2005, 02:12 PM
Not sure why nobody is talking about Engleberger, the guy is just as talented as Hayward, with a great motor to boot and will be a key rotation guy.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 02:34 PM
Not sure why nobody is talking about Engleberger, the guy is just as talented as Hayward, with a great motor to boot and will be a key rotation guy.

We traded Willie for him. Therefore, I have high expectations. Looking forward to seeing him give Courtney some good breaks and watching him put Trent Green on his ass.

Ballhawk
08-25-2005, 02:36 PM
We traded Willie for him. Therefore, I have high expectations. Looking forward to seeing him give Courtney some good breaks and watching him put Trent Green on his ass.

He has played very well so far and he is still settling in.

Kaylore
08-25-2005, 02:38 PM
He has played very well so far and he is still settling in.
One thing Mediator reminded me of is that sometimes players possition on the depth chart is related to their knowledge of the playbook. It's hard to put you in and see what you have when you're still learning the scheme.

broncosteven
08-25-2005, 02:43 PM
The Bills are at #5 sporting a QB who has only embarassed himself this far?


Has Loose-man even started a regular season game? I don't think he even embarrased himself. After Ben R has one good year all the Pontificators now think a rook or 2nd year guy can take a team to playoffs! What a joke, what was the last Rookie that went 15-0 in regular season? I don't see Bills doing any better than DUH Bears no matter how good Loose-man looks at pratice.

As far as ranked 20th we will look good with a +20 this year not that I go by these polls anyway.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-25-2005, 03:55 PM
Has Loose-man even started a regular season game? I don't think he even embarrased himself. After Ben R has one good year all the Pontificators now think a rook or 2nd year guy can take a team to playoffs! What a joke, what was the last Rookie that went 15-0 in regular season? I don't see Bills doing any better than DUH Bears no matter how good Loose-man looks at pratice.

As far as ranked 20th we will look good with a +20 this year not that I go by these polls anyway.
I hope you're not wagering on that! If you are PM me.

Merlin
08-25-2005, 08:29 PM
Slug,
I would be surprised if Buffalo finishes better than 500. The D lost an important lineman. The D was LOUSY when it counted most and against 2nd and 3rd stringers. It is one thing for a team to lose to a bad team. It is quite another to lose when your playoff life depends on it. The Steelers were able to run all over that D. BTW, when they went into their winning streak they did not beat a single team that was also playing well. Seattle was stinking up the place, as were the Rams, and Cincy is not a measure of a good team (despite what they did to the B.). Losman has not been doing particularly well, and they have dramatically reduce the playbook to maximum protect. There is even questions as to whether last year's injury in practice was an unfortunate outcome of a vet defender trying to teach Losman to play more carefully. After getting hit in the preseason, and being told by the coaching staff to slide, Losman basically stated he is too stupid to listen to them. So not only is the offence going to be worse this year, but he is likely going to get hurt.

Merlin

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 08:43 PM
rest of division? well, the raiders got moss.......and oh yeah, they got moss......hmmmmm
fine, theyll be imrpoved in the running game a bit too.
fact is, moss isnt a one man team, and more imortant, he's a DEPENDANT player. who's he dependant on again? kerry collins? nuff said

Again our entire offense consisted of Kerry Collins' right arm. How many picks did Plummer throw caretaking a 2000 yard ground game?

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 08:49 PM
Our offensive line is t!ts.. .those clowns from the Browns aren't going to sniff the qb

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 08:56 PM
Our offensive line is t!ts.. .those clowns from the Browns aren't going to sniff the qb
Pryce will though :P

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 08:58 PM
Pryce will though :P

Gotta Agree, Alec. On another note, Courtney will put Collins and Jordan on the IR.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:10 PM
Gotta Agree, Alec. On another note, Courtney will put Collins and Jordan on the IR.


Wouldnt he have to get off IR himself for that to occur? :juggle:

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:11 PM
You clowns were whining about all the time Collins had to stand there last year.

Which side is Pryce lining up on now BTW?

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 09:12 PM
Wouldnt he have to get off IR himself for that to occur? :juggle:
Hey dummy. Courtney isnt on IR.
edit: Unless I missed something.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:14 PM
Which one of those Browncos went down already? I cant keep that slop straight.

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 09:14 PM
Which one of those Browncos went down already? I cant keep that slop straight.
I believe Courtney hurt something or another, but he wasnt put on IR.

Broke a wrist or something.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 09:16 PM
I believe Courtney hurt something or another, but he wasnt put on IR.

Broke a wrist or something.

Dislocated elbow. T-minus one week until he is back to wreaking havoc on anyone across from him.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Kinda tough to sack the quarterback from the trainers table..... I'm just sayin'

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:16 PM
Dislocated elbow. T-minus one week until he is back to wreaking havoc on anyone across from him.

LMAO... You gotta be kidding me. Last thing that dude wreaked havoc on was the trainer's staff.

Rock Chalk
08-25-2005, 09:18 PM
:yawn:

So when you go a remarkable 6-10 this year, what will the excuse be?

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 09:20 PM
LMAO... You gotta be kidding me. Last thing that dude wreaked havoc on was the trainer's staff.

We'll see who's where in January, okay?

PS. good luck with that stellar Raiders D-line, buddy.

Bronco LB 59
08-25-2005, 09:21 PM
Kinda tough to sack the quarterback from the trainers table..... I'm just sayin'


Who's going to put heat on the QB this year on the Raiders? Tyler Brayton? Last season, Tommy Kelly led the team with 4.0 sacks. I put the Raiders sack leader over/under at 5.5 for 2005 and I am being extremely generous there.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:23 PM
:yawn:

So when you go a remarkable 6-10 this year, what will the excuse be?


You guys crack me up, adding 4 players that either were injured or sucked balls are a stone cold lock.

Adding a couple of players that played on legit defenses that went far in the playoffs or were elite college talents and we'll go 6-10?

Butch Davis is on the NFL network now if you haven't noticed

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:24 PM
We'll see who's where in January, okay?

PS. good luck with that stellar Raiders D-line, buddy.


I'd take Ed Jasper and Burgess over any of that junk.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:24 PM
They at least started for teams that could stop someone.

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 09:25 PM
I'd take Ed Jasper and Burgess over any of that junk.

Thats that Al Davis mentality that has taken your team so far recently!

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:26 PM
We made our run, it didnt work out. We're tooling up for another one. Denver has wallowed around a borderline wild card berth year in and year out with Ferretface living off of 10 year old mastermind rep.

Bronco LB 59
08-25-2005, 09:27 PM
Ebnezer Ekuban is just a reserve swingman off Denver's bench and he had twice as many sacks (8) as the Raiders' 2004 sack leader!!! Our other reserve swingman, John Engelberger, had more sacks (6.0) as well. Those are our scrubs!

Bronco LB 59
08-25-2005, 09:28 PM
We made our run, it didnt work out. We're tooling up for another one. Denver has wallowed around a borderline wild card berth year in and year out with Ferretface living off of 10 year old mastermind rep.

Mike Shanahan has one losing season in ten years in Denver.

Norv Turner has missed the playoffs 7 out of 8 seasons as a head coach in the NFL.

Bronco LB 59
08-25-2005, 09:30 PM
Derrick Burgess is a scrub nobody. He racked up 6 sacks as a rookie and has two sacks in three years since 2001. He's not even worthy enough of picking up John Engelberger's jock strap.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:31 PM
Derrick Burgess is a scrub nobody. He racked up 6 sacks as a rookie and has two sacks in three years since 2001. He's not even worthy enough of picking up John Engelberger's jock strap.



Uhhh where was John Engleberger last December?

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 09:34 PM
Mike Shanahan has one losing season in ten years in Denver

And how many playoff wins since his HOF QB fell out of his lap?

TheReverend
08-25-2005, 09:36 PM
And how many playoff wins since his HOF QB fell out of his lap?

How many superbowls during your lifetime?

Bronco LB 59
08-25-2005, 09:39 PM
Uhhh where was John Engleberger last December?

Jevon Kearse, Corey Simon, Hugh Douglas, Darwin Walker and Hollis Thomas carried the Philadelphia defensive line last season and this idiot is acting like Philadelphia wouldn't have made it to Jacksonville without Derrick Burgess. Please!

Engleberger was selling out everyplay in December leading his bottom of the barrel team in sacks. He had more sacks than your team sack leader in 2004 and he's coming off the bench in our defensive scheme.

Bronco LB 59
08-25-2005, 09:50 PM
And how many playoff wins since his HOF QB fell out of his lap?

So what? The great Don Shula failed to make the postseason in four consecutive seasons with Dan Marino behind center.

The only idiots that want Shanahan gone are Denver's division rivals because they know the Broncos bring it every year while other teams go through losing spells. Like Bowlen said last month, "A lot of guys out there fire their coaches because they want to get to the Super Bowl and they can't get there with the guy they got. Well, I've been there twice with the guy I've got."

Norv Turner's only postseason triumph was a wild card win over an 8-8 Detroit Lions team in 1999. 54-70-1 career record! 1 playoff appearance in 8 seasons. Your coach isn't the second coming of John Rauch, John Madden and Tom Flores. He's in the same company with Joe Bugel and Mike White. He's a bum.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 10:18 PM
Jevon Kearse, Corey Simon, Hugh Douglas, Darwin Walker and Hollis Thomas carried the Philadelphia defensive line last season and this idiot is acting like Philadelphia wouldn't have made it to Jacksonville without Derrick Burgess. Please!

Engleberger was selling out everyplay in December leading his bottom of the barrel team in sacks. He had more sacks than your team sack leader in 2004 and he's coming off the bench in our defensive scheme.

BFD, the team with the most sacks doesnt win!

We went to the super bowl with DEs that combined for 5 or 6 sacks.

Raider Bill
08-25-2005, 10:19 PM
Norv Turner's only postseason triumph was a wild card win over an 8-8 Detroit Lions team in 1999

Vs the goosegg that Ferretface has put up with THIS squad.

That consecutive winning season streak kinda rings hollow with exactly zero playoff victories.

Bronco LB 59
08-26-2005, 01:33 AM
BFD, the team with the most sacks doesnt win!

We went to the super bowl with DEs that combined for 5 or 6 sacks.


The Raiders were 30th in the NFL against the pass in 2004. If you don't get pressure on the QB, your team isn't going anywhere.

Bronco LB 59
08-26-2005, 01:50 AM
Vs the goosegg that Ferretface has put up with THIS squad.

That consecutive winning season streak kinda rings hollow with exactly zero playoff victories.


I will take my chances with Shanahan knowing he's taken the Broncos to the promise land twice and you can have your 54-70-1 coach with a track record comparable to the likes of Dennis Erickson, Bruce Coslet and Rich Kotite.

RukdaFaidas
08-26-2005, 03:27 AM
I will cheer the day Shanahan leaves Denver. Any coach that can take the guys Denver has on offense and make it top 5 deserves to be called an offensive mastermind.
I'm just glad he's not very good with personnel decisions.

crazyhorse
08-26-2005, 04:05 AM
Do you people really think you had an offense that was a top 5 unit last season?

watermock
08-26-2005, 04:56 AM
I believe Courtney hurt something or another, but he wasnt put on IR.

Broke a wrist or something.

He dislocated his elbow and will have a brace on it. He's still rehabbing his foot too. It's nothing really. He is a couple weeks away.

What the east coast media can't figure out is we didn't waive our entire DL when we brought in the Brownies and Engleberger. The team that has the laughing stock of the league at DL is Cleveland.

I just repeat what I have allready said many times. None of these Brown's players were brought in to be franchise savers like they were in Cleveland. I'm hearing that Warren literally has an infectious smile on his face and loves it here. And has matured.

I can appreciate the C. Brown might be down. That guy has been snake bit more than he deserves. His injury isn't considered real serious. They will work him in. I'm pulling for him, but he isn't a critical element. Getting Pryce back was more important, and Pryce so far hasn't suffered a setback. Trading our #1 to Washington and getting Pryce back was as good as getting a #1. Plus we get another next year, maybe a lotto pick.

Myers has been running first and second team.

Engleberger is solid I hear, Eke is there, Denver is very deep at DL. I expect us to keep 10.

And this isn't even discussing the DL we went to Indy last year with!

watermock
08-26-2005, 04:58 AM
And how many playoff wins since his HOF QB fell out of his lap?

Dumbass, you have to make the playoffs to lose in the playoffs.

Why do you think Gruden left? Why do you think Shanahan left? Your new coach hasn't proven poop in the NFL other than he's a decent assistant. Now he's got Randy Moss. BFD. Moss is a headache that just last week bragged about beating drug tests. Collins?

Oh yeah, the east coast media is drooling over that pile of manure. This year is going to be fun.

It's so amusing.

TheReverend
08-26-2005, 07:49 AM
Do you people really think you had an offense that was a top 5 unit last season?

Considering Shannahan's track record... easily.

Merlin
08-26-2005, 08:19 AM
Vs the goosegg that Ferretface has put up with THIS squad.
That consecutive winning season streak kinda rings hollow with exactly zero playoff victories.
This is priceless. You are actually suggesting your bum coach has a better career record (because of ONE playoff win) than Shanahan has since Elway's departure? :poke: thwack I guess you raider fans are not dressing up for the games; you are just plain homer morons :clown: . Keep it up. As long as that attitude continues we will not have to bother worrying against you. BTW, how is that lifetime record of the Raiders against Shanahan going? :~ohyah!: rofl ROFL!

Billy Clyde Puckett
08-26-2005, 08:30 AM
I'm just glad he's not very good with personnel decisions.

See the Justin Miller Thread

TheReverend
08-26-2005, 08:34 AM
Courtney will win us 3 extra games this year.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-26-2005, 09:18 AM
Courtney will win us 3 extra games this year.
Quite the reach there! IF he plays 3 games this year that would surprise some people.

TheReverend
08-26-2005, 09:20 AM
Quite the reach there! IF he plays 3 games this year that would surprise some people.

You hate me because I dont support the decision to have MA running first team, but then you turn around and do something like this to Courtney? Hypocrit. Why not support your team?

orange 4 life
08-26-2005, 10:01 AM
You guys crack me up, adding 4 players that either were injured or sucked balls are a stone cold lock.

Adding a couple of players that played on legit defenses that went far in the playoffs or were elite college talents and we'll go 6-10?

Butch Davis is on the NFL network now if you haven't noticed

okay,
for the one millionth time.

we added four players who didnt live up to potential in cleveland, but have talent.
we only need a couple to make an impact.
why?
because we ALSO brought back everyone from a year ago (except an overpaid hayward), and we have pryce and ellis (two PROBOWL caliber players) back healthy.
see why we're a little excited with the d-line?

see, we COULDVE gone out and spent all the money on ONE dude (as many here wanted us too), but then you have just that. ONE guy.
we kept all our line intact, brought back pryce and ellis, and added the 4 from cleveland, and then went out and got one more (who's looked good in camp and preseason)
thats SEVENTEEN linemen.
do the math pal.
this line DOES NOT revolve around the cleveland guys.
theyre just a part.
yes, most of us expect an impact from brown and warren for sure (and myers has looked good too. even ekuban has had his moments), but we have TOO MUCH talent at line.
its a nice problem to have :)

Mediator12
08-26-2005, 10:21 AM
You guys crack me up, adding 4 players that either were injured or sucked balls are a stone cold lock.

Adding a couple of players that played on legit defenses that went far in the playoffs or were elite college talents and we'll go 6-10?

Butch Davis is on the NFL network now if you haven't noticed

Who njbil??? Derrick Burgess of the Eagles??? Wanna Guess who has started more games in the last three years between him and Brown? You lost your #2 CB and he was the only experienced CB besides Woodson. Your Safeties may get better, but currently they are the weakest in the division BY FAR. You have no consistency with the LB's and have already lost a projected starter for the year. The DT's are older than the number of combined sacks and tackles they amassed last year. Your DE's are tweeners with no consistency as to the 4-3 or 3-4.

DEN needed Tweaks to a TOP 4 Defense. They lacked Pass Rush and Interior penetration on the line. Guess what they got that. The rush defense has been no lower than sixth in the league the last five years so I am NOT worried about the supposed lack of CLE's run Defense. They may have the only set of starting LB's worse than OAK. What CLE was exceptional at was pass Defense being Fourth. With noboby but Henry worth a crap in the Secondary. What does that tell you? They had pressure on the QB.

Rock Chalk
08-26-2005, 10:26 AM
No sense using logic with Fade fans.

Its easier just to tell them to **** off and die.

Bronco_Beerslug
08-26-2005, 10:42 AM
You hate me because I dont support the decision to have MA running first team, but then you turn around and do something like this to Courtney? Hypocrit. Why not support your team?

ROFL!

I don't hate you rev, just have to comment on some of the anti-MA stuff you bring. If it were accurate I wouldn't have a problem with it.

You saying he will personally win 3 games for us isn't more of a reach than my statement of him playing 3 games this year would surprise some people?

Atlas
08-26-2005, 10:43 AM
I will cheer the day Shanahan leaves Denver. Any coach that can take the guys Denver has on offense and make it top 5 deserves to be called an offensive mastermind.


You do have a point. Look at Denve's offense. There aren't any stars. But yet they produce. Good point.

Mediator12
08-26-2005, 10:47 AM
No sense using logic with Fade fans.

Its easier just to tell them to **** off and die.

That's where you come in alec :devil: You do it so much better than I ever Could Knowitall

Just like good teamwork. I try to reason with them and you put them in their place. I play to my strengths and you play to yours :thumbs:

Rock Chalk
08-26-2005, 10:53 AM
That's where you come in alec :devil: You do it so much better than I ever Could Knowitall

Just like good teamwork. I try to reason with them and you put them in their place. I play to my strengths and you play to yours :thumbs:
reason: a rational motive for a belief or action; "the reason that war was declared"; "the grounds for their declaration"
an explanation of the cause of some phenomenon; "the reason a steady state was never reached was that the back pressure built up too slowly"
the capacity for rational thought or inference or discrimination; "we are told that man is endowed with reason and capable of distinguishing good from evil"
rationality: the state of having good sense and sound judgment; "his rationality may have been impaired"; "he had to rely less on reason than on rousing their emotions"
decide by reasoning; draw or come to a conclusion; "We reasoned that it was cheaper to rent than to buy a house"
cause: a justification for something existing or happening; "he had no cause to complain"; "they had good reason to rejoice"
argue: present reasons and arguments
a fact that logically justifies some premise or conclusion; "there is reason to believe he is lying"
think logically; "The children must learn to reason"

For our Fade fan brethren.

Raidersbane
08-26-2005, 11:00 AM
This is all based on paper analysis. All these writers do is look at stats and go no further. But stats only tell part of the story. You have to actually study the situation the player is in. A couple of examples given are A) how effective were the coaching schemes, B) were there strength or weaknesses elsewhere on the team that had a effect on his stats, or C) Were injuries involved. This however would require an element of effort on the part of the sports writer/analyist, something I find lacking in the vast majority of today's sports media market. Just looking up the stats is a fast, lazy, cheap, and crappy way to base one's commentary on. The end result is a fast, cheap, and crappy product.

Mediator12
08-26-2005, 11:07 AM
This is all based on paper analysis. All these writers do is look at stats and go no further. But stats only tell part of the story. You have to actually study the situation the player is in. A couple of examples given are A) how effective were the coaching schemes, B) were there strength or weaknesses elsewhere on the team that had a effect on his stats, or C) Were injuries involved. This however would require an element of effort on the part of the sports writer/analyist, something I find lacking in the vast majority of today's sports media market. Just looking up the stats is a fast, lazy, cheap, and crappy way to base one's commentary on. The end result is a fast, cheap, and crappy product.

Exactly. That is where I am here to right the wrongs of stupid analysis. I swear these guys do not spend a quarter of the time researching things as people on this board.

Sprout
08-26-2005, 11:30 AM
see, we COULDVE gone out and spent all the money on ONE dude (as many here wanted us too), but then you have just that. ONE guy.

Not to mention that that ONE guy was playing on the line everyone was bitching about last year. Even with his 6 or whatever sacks, keeping him meant that the only thing that changes for this year is Pryce coming back.

orange 4 life
08-26-2005, 12:52 PM
This is all based on paper analysis. All these writers do is look at stats and go no further. But stats only tell part of the story. You have to actually study the situation the player is in. A couple of examples given are A) how effective were the coaching schemes, B) were there strength or weaknesses elsewhere on the team that had a effect on his stats, or C) Were injuries involved. This however would require an element of effort on the part of the sports writer/analyist, something I find lacking in the vast majority of today's sports media market. Just looking up the stats is a fast, lazy, cheap, and crappy way to base one's commentary on. The end result is a fast, cheap, and crappy product.

fantastic post, and i couldnt agree more.

this is why the national media is SO FAR off on their analysis of the broncos.
they see NOTHING but the headlines, so all they know is we got four browns on DL (the media of course hasnt see ONE SECOND of camp), we signed rice, and we drafted clarrett.
to them, that was our entire offseason.
then, the only thing they remember from last season is the final game, and thus we fly under the radar.

anyway, no matter HOW you spin it and WHAT team you root for, its PAINFULLY obvious that VERY little if any real ANALYSIS goes into any of these so called "experts" opinions.
its complete garbage.

Old Dude
08-26-2005, 01:03 PM
The real problem is that we fumble, drop critical passes and INTs, and our QB often throws to the wrong guys. And every time we get to the playoffs, we have a good portion of our pass rush and secondary injured and watching from the sidelines while Peyton Manning burns the fill-ins for gazillions of yards.

If we can fix a couple of those things, we'll be fine.

orange 4 life
08-26-2005, 03:37 PM
The real problem is that we fumble, drop critical passes and INTs, and our QB often throws to the wrong guys. And every time we get to the playoffs, we have a good portion of our pass rush and secondary injured and watching from the sidelines while Peyton Manning burns the fill-ins for gazillions of yards.

If we can fix a couple of those things, we'll be fine.

in the basic sense, thats all accurate.
the only thing thats a bit over the top is the "our qb OFTEN throws to the wrong guys."
our qb had 20 picks last year, BUT (and its a big "but") we threw ALOT more
than we wanted to, and ELEVEN of the 20 picks were tipped balls.
we've gone through it many times, but REGARDLESS of where the blame for those tips gets assigned, 11 tipped ball int's in a HUGE number. think about it. if he had 5 less tipped balls, he wouldve had 27 td's and 15 int's along with the 4100 yards, and everyone is singing hail to the chief when he walks in a room.
bottom line is there WERENT alot of plays that could be classified as "bonehead" or just plain bad throws. some, but not alot.
there was the famous leftie toss, and there were two in particular i remember that were forced into double coverage to rod. there was one i remember that was grossly underthrown to lelie (by and large his deep balls were VERY good hence lelie's numbers).
anyway, there were SOME, but not ALOT.

as for the rest, look at the offseason.
we have anderson and bell instead of droughns and griffin. better now.
we have SEVENTEEN defensive linemen, we'll probably keep 10 or even 11 of them, and we should have a DRAMATICALLY improved line, which in turn creates turnovers.
from there, all we can do is hope and pray that the bad luck of the last few years will finally stop.
yes, some of it was just bad execution at critical times, but quite a but is just bad luck also.

jake

Cito Pelon
08-26-2005, 04:30 PM
I have a hard tiime seeing this team being worse than last year. And worse than the Bills, Chiefs, Saints? Hahahahaha! That's a good one.

I don't disagree with SD being ranked high. They've looked very smooth on O and D so far this year. The Chiefs are going to be a little tougher than last year, but not enough to chaleenge Den or SD for the Div Title. And the Raiders, well they're probably going 2-4 in the Div at best, more likely 1-5.