Mediator 8/18 morning camp report

[Mediator12]

I will go by things I noticed.

1. Jake looked real sharp throwing the intermediate routes outside the redzone. The defensive coverage in the redzone has been lights out though with a ton of checkdowns to the RB's and TE's.

2. Nick Ferguson Looks better than Kennoy. Period. He is smarter in coverage and had a pick and two passes defensed in the Redzone drills. In the Nine on seven running drills he was constantly making hits at or behind the LOS. His reads in the pass game are Solid and he has made zero mistakes in zone. A true Blessing.

3. Brandon Browner is going to be a player. He ran the second Nickle FS and made three great plays, two in the running game and an INT. BVP tried to throw over the top of him to Rice and Browner caught it clean. His problem is he still does not have the scheme down. Coyer told the press, " he learned a valuable lesson yesterday. You better go 100% every play or your gone."

4. They set up several red Zone plays specifically for Lelie and Rice. Willie better hope he does not cover them or his return will be good for Denver.

5. The DB's and WR's caught a ton of balls during the nine on seven's. Everyone did well but BJ dropped a bunch.

6. The OL depth is definitely going to be an achilles heel for this team. They are not deep at all, Clabo is looking poor to midland in passing protection. The backup guard is still between Spikes and Carswell. That Carswell could be the number 3 G is telling to the lack of depth. Clement is huge! He and green are battling for the backup T spot. Chris Meyers has good feet, but Chris Watton and Ben Howland are still ahead of him.

7. MA looks explosive through the hole. He looks real good. Tatum and Dayne have been solid. Lo and Behold, Clarett carried the ball today as well. everyone was trying to strip the rock from him and a few VET's introduced themselves with the pads on. Browner leveled him after about five yards as he tried to finish a play too :woowoo:

8. Champ, Roc, and mario sat out of practice. Everyone else but Chris young played.

9. The rookie CB's played well but inconsistant today. Williams and Paymah both had four or five Passes defensed and foxworth had a few too. The first team WR's all had good intermediate receptions against Fox and Darrent in the nickle though. Walls was Holding too much on some of the press coverage and was told to cool it by Slowik and Spencer.

10. LB coverages were much better today and DJ ran for AL on the first team nickel today. Ian broke up several short passes for the RB's and TE's. Al played but they gave more reps to the backups this morning.

I will try to put together a few more notes before heading back to ST's Practice.

[Master___Pain]

Thanks a bunch, great reports. It makes me sad that today is the last day open to the public. REP

[SoCalBronco]

Thanks Med, thats a great report. Much appreciated. :)

[Rascal]

6. The OL depth is definitely going to be an achilles heel for this team. They are not deep at all, Clabo is looking poor to midland in passing protection. The backup guard is still between Spikes and Carswell. That Carswell could be the number 3 G is telling to the lack of depth. Clement is huge! He and green are battling for the backup T spot. Chris Meyers has good feet, but Chris Watton and Ben Howland are still ahead of him.


:deadhorse :cuss: :gus: :moody:

!@#$%^&*())))))(*&^%$$$#@!!@#$%^&*())(*&^%$#@

Carlisle isn't starter quality himself.

[Raidersbane]

Mo C. carried the ball.......he needs to carry it alot more from here on. Let's wait and watch.

[OrangeShadow]

i have a good feeling bout fergy

[Kaylore]

Excellent work! Hopefully I'll see you this evening. I have to work at six, but ST practices are shorter, so we'll see.

[Rascal]

Why in the hell we didn't go after Demulling is unbelievable IMO. They even said he wanted to play here and we didn't even return his phone call.

That will piss me off every time I see Carlisle screw something up...which will be about 5-6 times a game.

!@#$%^)(*&^%$#@~!@#$%^&*()

[Kaylore]

Carlisle is playing better than you think, Rascal. The way he has played in camp, he deserves to be the starter...for right now, anyway.

[BroncoInferno]

Why in the hell we didn't go after Demulling is unbelievable IMO. They even said he wanted to play here and we didn't even return his phone call.

That will piss me off every time I see Carlisle screw something up...which will be about 5-6 times a game.

!@#$%^)(*&^%$#@~!@#$%^&*()

We didn't have the dough. That's why we didn't call back.

[Mediator12]

11. Safety is no longer a position of concern. Sam Brandon and Dorsett Davis are possibly the two Most Improved returning players. Lesueur is a much better safety and looks smooth covering the TE's.

12. Alexander and Putzier are running some great intermediate and Deep routes. The best play of the day was a corner route putzier ran for a long TD against the first team defense in passing drills. Surprise surprise it came out of the ace Two TE set! this formation is really going to cause a lot of problems for opposing DC's since Putz and Alexander run like WR's.

13. DL handled the OL again today. Especially running in the redzone. Jake is going to have to throw some TD's to loosen up the rush this year or there are going to be more Red zone Problems. On the other hand, Myers and Warren have much quicker first steps than the guys who have played that position here in the past. The OL is gettting great practice reps against a solid tandem at DT.

14. They did a bunch of midfield reps then, went right to the redzone like a big Play had happened. Then Back and forth. BTW, the pace of the practice is light speed compared to college. They run two or three plays a minute. I heard Burns comment that the game was going to be easy compared to this! That is the mark of a sharp practice.

[Rohirrim]

Thanks, Med. Good read.

[Rascal]

We didn't have the dough. That's why we didn't call back.

How could we know if we didn't talk to him?

[Rascal]

Carlisle is playing better than you think, Rascal. The way he has played in camp, he deserves to be the starter...for right now, anyway.

He didn't show it in the Houston game. Hopefully things improve against the 49'ers but I honestly don't see how they couldn't considering who they are playing.

[Kaylore]

He didn't show it in the Houston game. Hopefully things improve against the 49'ers but I honestly don't see how they couldn't considering who they are playing.
There are three more games to play before the season starts and many many weeks of trades that could occur.

[Rascal]

You honestly think we will make a trade for the o-line this late in the year?

[Kaylore]

You honestly think we will make a trade for the o-line this late in the year?
I'm saying I honestly don't know. In three games Carlisle could look great. We have to wait and see. We aren't showing our full hand and we'll be playing a "rebuilding" team this week that didn't scout us three days in a row, so I think the outcome will be better across the board.

[KipCorrington25]

I will go by things I noticed.

8. Champ, Roc, and mario sat out of practice. Everyone else but Chris young played.



Young is out for the season with a cracked knee cap.

[BigPlayShay]

Thanks so much Med. Did Watts or Rice run as the 3rd WR on the 1st team today?

[Mediator12]

They alternated in the 3 WR sets. There were way more two TE sets during the passing drills though, 3-1 I would say.

[BroncoInferno]

How could we know if we didn't talk to him?

I'm sure Denver had an idea of what it was going to take to get him signed. Remember, at the time of his availability we were still trying to get the more pressing DL situation sorted out, so our financial priorities were elsewhere.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

Thanks Med. I agree with Rascal that Carlisle is the weak point on the O. I was very worried about the safeties, so I hope you are right about them.

[SoCalBronco]

We didn't have the dough. That's why we didn't call back.

We had the dough. We just chose to waste it.

[DB-Freak]

We had the dough. We just chose to waste it.
Lmfao.

They alternated in the 3 WR sets. There were way more two TE sets during the passing drills though, 3-1 I would say.

So how is Sykes doing Med?

[DBroncos4life]

We had the dough. We just chose to waste it.


Those words are bigger then GOLD

[SoCalBronco]

Those words are bigger then GOLD

But its the lowest size the system provides for so I had to make do. I did forget to put it in pink though, my bad.

[Rascal]

At least two of you guys agree with me. We overpaid for Gold and because of it we are stuck with Carlisle...great.

[DBroncos4life]

But its the lowest size the system provides for so I had to make do. I did forget to put it in pink though, my bad.


Yeah I wish we had the color gold as well.

[SoCalBronco]

Yeah I wish we had the color gold as well.

why? Pink is fine.

[jonny1]

Didn't Carlisle start most of last year? Didn't the running game work?

Sure it would be great to have all-pros at every position, but that doesn't happen anymore.

The OL performed well last year (with Carlisle) and the DL and special teams needed help. I think we are all agreed that Shanahan has done a pretty good job of addressing those problems. Will it work? We'll see. But OL was WAY done the list of priorities.

[TheManeMan]

Thanks for the report Mediator, sure helps all of us out of staters with great reports like this...you and Kaylore are lucky MFers'...very much appreciated...

[Rascal]

Carlisle started in the last four games. One against the hapless Titans, another against a Indy squad that didn't care. Another against teh chiefs in which our top rusher had 50 yards and Plummer was sacked 6 times. The other game was against Miami which our running game did well.

[Drek]

We had the dough. We just chose to waste it.
I agree that Gold is overpayed, but you talk about him like he's not even a good player. He's a substantial upgrade to our linebacking unit over what we had last year, and his salary, while higher than what I think he deserves, isn't as overinflated as many others, even on this team.

I've been saying for most of the off-season that the interior OL was our weakpoint. Our best guard is also our backup C, our starting C is getting up there in years. Now we hear that a guy who was a TE last season (and someone I'd personally like to see kicked out of the league) is competing for backup OG. How sad is that?

At OT I think we're great. Clement has a ton of experience plus he's still rather young and the physical tools have always been there along with his enormous size. To me I think Green would have to play out of his mind to take the #2 job, but that doesn't mean he won't make the team because OT is where all our OL depth is at. Seriously, Spikes is probably our #3 OG and there will be guys cut from other teams camps that are better than he is.

Wouldn't surprise me if the F.O. gives Neil a call, see if he wants to come in for a phsyical. A broken Dan Neil would probably hold up over a clueless host of guys who just don't have the talent or experience to play significant time in the NFL regular season.

Unfortunately none of our tackle depth could realistically be moved to OG either, since Green is 6'6" and Clement is 6'8". Thats a lot more size in the middle than would otherwise be ideal, though who knows, it might just come to that.

[Mediator12]

Sykes has been OK. There has been stiff competition at LB too. Green, predator,and Burns look good. Sykes needs to bring it this afternoon in ST's practice.

[SoCalBronco]

Med, how did Clarett look when he ran this morning?

[Mediator12]

Enough of the Ian bashing. Every team has a weak unit in depth. Believe me the Colts are hurting twice as bad at OG than us! So is GB.

[Mediator12]

Rusty and he is not making friends with the team. He does NOT talk to anyone on the field, while the rest of the team is pretty loose and tight knit.

[Kaylore]

I will not be at camp this afternoon. It going to rain.

[SoCalBronco]

Rusty and he is not making friends with the team. He does NOT talk to anyone on the field, while the rest of the team is pretty loose and tight knit.

Ouch. Thanks Med.

[Paladin]

Enough of the Ian bashing. Every team has a weak unit in depth. Believe me the Colts are hurting twice as bad at OG than us! So is GB.

That's good to know, except we don't really give a ( ) about those guys. In fact, I hope they have terrible problems at G, T and C and RB, and all the D positions.

Having vented, thanks for the reports again. You bring that stuff to life nicely, and that really helps.

Thanks.

[Mediator12]

I will not be at camp this afternoon. It going to rain.

Did not stop them last time! Me either :militia:

[Mile High Shack]

Enough of the Ian bashing. Every team has a weak unit in depth. Believe me the Colts are hurting twice as bad at OG than us! So is GB.

hmmm

I won't stop Ian bashing until he proves me wrong in week 12-17, when he usually starts wearing down

[Kaylore]

Did not stop them last time! Me either :militia:
Did you tell them? I think that's hilarious and exactly what that unit needed.

[Rascal]

Enough of the Ian bashing. Every team has a weak unit in depth. Believe me the Colts are hurting twice as bad at OG than us! So is GB.

Won't stop bashing him or Carlisle until they prove otherwise on the field.

What they did in Houston was far from proving otherwise...especially Carlisle.

[BroncoInferno]

hmmm

I won't stop Ian bashing until he proves me wrong in week 12-17, when he usually starts wearing down

Prove that he wears down at the end of the season. People assume he wears down because of size, but offer nothing to substantiate this. It's a myth. We probably did over pay for him, but he's proven himself to be a good player. Not great, but good. Potentially very good if used in the right way, as I think Coyer will.

[DBroncos4life]

Im not really bashing Gold. I play both sides like a spy. ^5

[Mile High Shack]

Prove that he wears down at the end of the season. People assume he wears down because of size, but offer nothing to substantiate this. It's a myth. We probably did over pay for him, but he's proven himself to be a good player. Not great, but good. Potentially very good if used in the right way, as I think Coyer will.

hmm, I seem to remember his big year when he played full time, near the end of the year, he was continually getting blown up on running plays

[DB-Freak]

Prove that he wears down at the end of the season. People assume he wears down because of size, but offer nothing to substantiate this. It's a myth. We probably did over pay for him, but he's proven himself to be a good player. Not great, but good. Potentially very good if used in the right way, as I think Coyer will. No one can substantiate this anyway so no one is right here.

We all need to make up our own opinion.

[DBroncos4life]

No one can substantiate this anywhere so no one is right here.

We all need to make up our own opinion.


I have mine. He will help this team way more then he will hurt it.

[SoCalBronco]

hmm, I seem to remember his big year when he played full time, near the end of the year, he was continually getting blown up on running plays

Yep, he hit a wall in 2002.

[SoCalBronco]

I have mine. He will help this team way more then he will hurt it.

That's very strange, DB. Because I remember you being very pissed off about essentially giving Ian substantially the money that we refused to give to your boy, Reggie Hayward.

[Rascal]

lol

[TheReverend]

:deadhorse :cuss: :gus: :moody:

!@#$%^&*())))))(*&^%$$$#@!!@#$%^&*())(*&^%$#@

Carlisle isn't starter quality himself.

Cooper plays well

[TheReverend]

That's very strange, DB. Because I remember you being very pissed off about essentially giving Ian substantially the money that we refused to give to your boy, Reggie Hayward.

Hayward blows.

[DBroncos4life]

That's very strange, DB. Because I remember you being very pissed off about essentially giving Ian substantially the money that we refused to give to your boy, Reggie Hayward.


Yes SoCal I wasn't a fan of Golds, but I like the way things turned out. Had we paid Hayward we wouldn't have the depth we do now at DLine. I think we would have dumped Pryce as well. I think Gold is over payed that part I do agree with but I think he will still do very well for us on the field. I think Gold gets us atleast 5 or more sacks and causes at least 3 turnovers. Is it worth it? We will find out if those stats help in the win loss colum.

[DBroncos4life]

Hayward blows.


Middlebrooks blows :charge:

[TheReverend]

Middlebrooks blows :charge:

Touche. We're even

[Hulamau]

I cant wait to see Engelburger swallow Rattay when the 2nd stringers take over.

Alex Smith is gonna wish he was back in college if Warren and Champ both play. I hope neither one plays until their Hammy's are certified 110% healed. We dont need to screw our D by having those guys pull it all the way from the bone in a preseason game against the 9er's.

Let the young guys and Dorsett get some more reps and bring Champ and Warren back in for action next week, or let them play some in the last game to get ready for Miami. Just dont push it. It would be insane to play Champ in my view with his hammy tightening up again like that. He should be good to go for the whole season if we just let him rest the thing another week to 10 days.

[kent156]

^^ yep let Champ sit we are talking about practice its not even a game but practice, same for Warren but i thought Med said he practice today so i guess he is alright.

[watermock]

I fully expect Denver to be watching the cutdowns carefully, particuliarly at OL. I have no doubt we will bring in at least two or three players...vets, draft choices that we had an eye on but didn't land, ect. I would like to land a vet, but if there is a project out there, we could go that way. Denver has kinda a different type of lineman, quick feet, good timing...we don't maul like most teams.

I wouldn't panic just yet. There will be some talent back on the street soon enough. Another possibility is to trade an excess DL player, someone like Pope possibly. I'm not singleing him out, but someone that might not make it. There are options, and Denver will patch up the line...don't worry.

[baja]

I fully expect Denver to be watching the cutdowns carefully, particuliarly at OL. I have no doubt we will bring in at least two or three players...vets, draft choices that we had an eye on but didn't land, ect. I would like to land a vet, but if there is a project out there, we could go that way. Denver has kinda a different type of lineman, quick feet, good timing...we don't maul like most teams.

I wouldn't panic just yet. There will be some talent back on the street soon enough. Another possibility is to trade an excess DL player, someone like Pope possibly. I'm not singleing him out, but someone that might not make it. There are options, and Denver will patch up the line...don't worry.

Golly gee Mock you are turning into a homer but I agree this is THE SEASON to be a homer. We will be very good this season barring a key injury or two.

[listopencil]

hmm, I seem to remember his big year when he played full time, near the end of the year, he was continually getting blown up on running plays


The same thing sprang to my mind when they signed him. Maybe he can go get some red beans and rice at around week nine or so. We could start a fan-based program; Calories For Gold-Feed That Boy Right.

[fontaine]

Carlisle will be fine. Dan Neil, god bless him, was running on a busted knee and hernia and was barely getting any push off the line so a healthy Carlisle won't be any worse.

It's really hard for Denver to just pick up a free agent G/OL and slot him in as starter because it takes years to master the system and get in sync with the rest of the OL which is the real trick when pulling/blocking on the move. Coop has this which should mean he'll be an adequate starter. Nothing special but there's a lot worse around the league.

Next year we'll see which one of the guys (PJ, Meyers) can step up and provide some competition.

[Odysseus]

Carlisle will be fine. Dan Neil, god bless him, was running on a busted knee and hernia and was barely getting any push off the line so a healthy Carlisle won't be any worse.

It's really hard for Denver to just pick up a free agent G/OL and slot him in as starter because it takes years to master the system and get in sync with the rest of the OL which is the real trick when pulling/blocking on the move. Coop has this which should mean he'll be an adequate starter. Nothing special but there's a lot worse around the league.

Next year we'll see which one of the guys (PJ, Meyers) can step up and provide some competition.

I think the Broncos are stuck. I doubt they find even one guy during cut down that is starting material. They might find a project to develop but I'm pretty sure we aren't changing the OL this year. It's grin and bear it.

[RukdaFaidas]

One guy you might keep an eye on is Brett Williams of the Chiefs. Initally projected as a mid first round draft choice in 2003, the Chiefs were able to get him in the fourth round. He's a big OL that was drafted to replace John Tait at Right Tackle, but has been outplayed by Black and Sampson. This year he was moved to Guard and has played much better in this position, but the Chiefs are pretty loaded at Guard.
The Chiefs and Broncos share one thing in regards to OL, they both like speed. Brett is fast for his size, but at 6-5 321 lbs, I don't know if he's fast enough to play Guard for the Broncos.
There's a good chance the Chiefs will keep him, but there are some rumors he'll be cut.

[bloodsunday]

i have a good feeling bout fergy
There's a reason we didn't break the bank on Kennoy. Don't get me wrong, they wanted him back, but he was expendable in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully we have another safety step up before Lynch rides off into the sunset. I have been a Sam Brandon fan (on the field anyway), but he is running out of chances to make an impact on this team. Hopefully Browner can iron out the rookie mistakes and be the player we all hope he can be.

[bloodsunday]

:deadhorse :cuss: :gus: :moody:

!@#$%^&*())))))(*&^%$$$#@!!@#$%^&*())(*&^%$#@

Carlisle isn't starter quality himself.
Rascal I think you and I have found some common ground :)

I have been upset by our "system" mentality this whole offseason. It's high time we evaluate our offensive schemes. I think the single biggest thing holding our offense back from being dominant is the OL. I have felt that way for sometime. Our passing blocking is sub-par and our redzone run blocking is horrid. Really the only thing I think they do truly well is the zone run blocking.

[Rascal]

Rascal I think you and I have found some common ground :)

I have been upset by our "system" mentality this whole offseason. It's high time we evaluate our offensive schemes. I think the single biggest thing holding our offense back from being dominant is the OL. I have felt that way for sometime. Our passing blocking is sub-par and our redzone run blocking is horrid. Really the only thing I think they do truly well is the zone run blocking.

Especially the interior of the line. Nalen is not what he use to be but still good, although he gets pushed back a lot by bigger NT's. Hamilton is golden just wish he would put on some more weight (up to say 295) as he can also get pushed back. Carlisle....well I've made my opinion of him clear. Foster is good and Lepsis is above average IMO. If we could get the guard position stabilized (remember Hamilton will probably go to center when Nalen retires/cutt/released) and his backup his....HOUSE (that is scary).

[Play2win]

I actually went out and Celebrated when Kennedy Signed with Detroit. ;D

[Rascal]

Hmm...
according to the denverpost Plummer is wearing a knee brace? He has had problems with it already this year...I don't like the sounds of this.

[fontaine]

I don't really care about the weight of our OL.

I think Tuten said that Matt Lepsis was the strongest Bronco on the team a couple of years ago since he had the most functional strength in regards to pushing with his arms/bench press.

A lot of the massive OL are really just 290 lb guys with 40lbs of hamburger, fries and grease added on through diet. The really big and athletic ones that are more muscle than fat rarely slip past the first round and are few and far between.

The problem with Nalen/Neil last year wasn't that they were too small or weighed less.

The problem was that these guys had almost two decades of NFL wear and tear between them. OL (unlike WRs, DL, LBs) play every single snap and they do get worn down as the season progresses. The older you are, the worse it is. I dunno for sure but I'll bet the fact that Nalen has played so well and for so long can be attributed to that fact that he keeps in shape and his diet/weight in control rather than just balooning up.

It's my personal belief that lighter OL that keep in shape throughout their careers, tend to have longer ones than fatbodies who never really take care of themselves and baloon up in the offseason.

We do need fresh blood in there and I look for us to really go after a good G in free agency next year if Coop shows nothing.

[Odysseus]

I don't really care about the weight of our OL.

It's my personal belief that lighter OL that keep in shape throughout their careers, tend to have longer ones than fatbodies who never really take care of themselves and baloon up in the offseason.

If our guys are about speed and technique then I'm worried because they are inconsistent in both and have been for several years. I kept thinking the problem would clear up but it hasn't. It's hard to point out because even if you do whatcha gonna do? I ain't no frigging NFL...whatchacallit...goo roo?!

The Broncos are very defensive about their OL and anyone saying anything to them about it better have numbers to back it up. If they can't fix Special Teams which isn't as difficult to point out there is no way they are even going to look at this!

[Old Dude]

If our guys are about speed and technique then I'm worried because they are inconsistent in both and have been for several years. ...

I have to disagree with you.

The Broncos have been at or near the top of the NFL rushing teams for nearly 10 years now. That includes a variety of different backs, so you have to give the O-Line at least some credit for that.

Nor have we given up all that many sacks in that time, and were actually pretty good in pass protection last year.

If they aren't doing that with speed and technique then I don't know what they are doing it with, since they are notoriously undersized.

[Odysseus]

I have to disagree with you.

The Broncos have been at or near the top of the NFL rushing teams for nearly 10 years now. That includes a variety of different backs, so you have to give the O-Line at least some credit for that.

Nor have we given up all that many sacks in that time, and were actually pretty good in pass protection last year.

If they aren't doing that with speed and technique then I don't know what they are doing it with, since they are notoriously undersized.

This is exactly what I said two years ago. I am saying that they USED to have this but they are missing something. I can't see what it is on paper. I don't have tape. I can't put a finger on it but it's like a sense of urgency or something is just not there. I'm not putting the red zone on them. I'm not putting the third and out on them. They do O.K. What I want is lights out!

I think across the board they do what they are supposed to do but in order to blowout teams like the Ravens (whom I would like us just one time to tear apart like a rotting chicken) you can't be good for only 12 games. I'm throwing rocks at those other 4 games where they get thrown over the railing like a Raider fan beer and all.

You are probably right and this is just more pre season railings but I fully intend to visit this conversation in the post season and let's compare notes.