Russia, China Kick Off Military Exercises

[Bronco_Beerslug]

But don't worry, be happy, doesn't mean anything.

--------------------------------------------

By BURT HERMAN, Associated Press Writer 2 hours, 27 minutes ago

VLADIVOSTOK, Russia - Russia and China began unprecedented joint military exercises involving air, sea and land forces Thursday, as commanders from both nations insisted the war games weren't meant to intimidate other countries.

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050818/capt.xbh10308180343.russia_china_military_exercise s__xbh103.jpg?x=380&y=277&sig=FgewZlqwNWaWW1cKruBs6A--

Gen. Liang Guanglie, the chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, left and Gen. Yuri Baluyevsky, the head of the Russian armed forces general staff, salute at a World War II memorial in Vladivostok, Russia, Thursday, Aug. 18. 2005. Russia and China launched unprecedented joint military exercises Thursday involving air, sea and land forces with the top commanders from both countries emphasizing that the war games weren't meant to intimidate anyone. A ship from Russia's Pacific Fleet is seen in background. (AP Photo/Burt Herman)




The United States isn't sending observers to the exercises, which symbolize the bolstered ties between Russia and China since the end of the Cold War, but the U.S. has said it hopes they don't shake regional stability.

"Our exercises don't threaten any country," Gen. Yuri Baluyevsky, the head of the Russian armed forces general staff, told a news conference at Russia's Pacific Fleet command in the Far East city of Vladivostok.

Gen. Liang Guanglie, chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, said the exercises were taking place in accord with U.N. principles and would serve to boost the countries' common interests and "protect peace and stability in our region and the whole world." He said they took part in the context of the "fight against international terrorism, separatism and extremism."

Liang denied that the moves to strengthen ties between Beijing and Moscow would lead to some kind of military union or the two countries fighting together against any common foe.

Instead, the generals said the eight days of exercises were a result of the warming ties between the countries on many levels. China and Russia have drawn closer together since the end of the Cold War after decades of estrangement, united in their opposition to U.S. dominance in world affairs.

The exercises, dubbed "Peace Mission 2005," started Thursday with strategic consultations between commanders, and will climax next week with an amphibious and paratroop landing on China's Shandong peninsula in the Yellow Sea. Some 10,000 troops are involved, mostly Chinese and about 1,800 Russians.

The new commander of the U.S. Pacific Fleet, Adm. Gary Roughead, said in an interview that the United States was "very interested" in the Chinese-Russian exercises.

"We're very interested in the exercise, we're interested in the types of things that they'll do," Roughead told The Associated Press on Wednesday in Hawaii. "We're interested in the complexity and the types of systems that they bring to bear."

Heralding the start of the drills, the Russian and Chinese commanders laid wreaths at a World War II memorial in Vladivostok before a Russian honor guard, and veterans from both countries also placed flowers there.

Experts say the maneuvers are more of a sales pitch to the Chinese of Russian-made arms — including the country's long-range strategic bombers.

Analysts have noted the involvement of Russia's Tu-95 strategic bombers and Tu-22M long-range bombers in the exercises — warplanes that can carry conventional or nuclear-tipped cruise missiles and are not usually part of peacekeeping operations. The aircraft are expected to top China's shopping list both to deter U.S. assistance to Taiwan in the event of a conflict and project Chinese strength across the region.

Baluyevsky on Thursday praised Russian weapons as reliable and easy to repair.

But both countries also are looking to prove their military might.

The U.S. Defense Department said in a report last month that China's military was increasingly seeking to modernize and could become a threat to American and other forces in the Asia-Pacific region as it looked to spread its influence.

The Russian military is also eager to show it can still flex its muscles despite much-publicized woes. Its weaknesses were highlighted again earlier this month when the country was forced to call for outside help to rescue seven men stranded in a mini-submarine off its Pacific coast in operations that involved the Vladivostok-based Pacific Fleet.

Russia and China are the dominant countries in the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, a grouping that includes four former Soviet republics of Central Asia and which this year took on
Iran, India and Pakistan as observers.

At a summit in July, the group called on Washington to set a date for the withdrawal of its forces from Central Asia, where they have been deployed since late 2001 to help support operations in neighboring
Afghanistan. Representatives from the organization's countries have been invited to watch the exercises.
http://tinyurl.com/8z295

[Spider]

I have been yelling about this with Hotrod for awhile now ... add to it this little gem http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-07/03/content_456596.htm

[Hotrod]

"Gen. Liang Guanglie, chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, said the exercises were taking place in accord with U.N. principles and would serve to boost the countries' common interests and "protect peace and stability in our region and the whole world." He said they took part in the context of the "fight against international terrorism, separatism and extremism."

Ya beech landings and blockades of the seas shipping lanes are great practice for the fight against "terrorism, separatism and extremism". IMO this is Russia saying were still here and powerful and China preparing for the invassion of Taiwan.

[Spider]

"Gen. Liang Guanglie, chief of the general staff of the Chinese People's Liberation Army, said the exercises were taking place in accord with U.N. principles and would serve to boost the countries' common interests and "protect peace and stability in our region and the whole world." He said they took part in the context of the "fight against international terrorism, separatism and extremism."

Ya beech landings and blockades of the seas shipping lanes are great practice for the fight against "terrorism, separatism and extremism". IMO this is Russia saying were still here and powerful and China preparing for the invassion of Taiwan.
pretty much how i see it .......

[Rohirrim]

And it's Bush's failed, cowboy policies in Iraq (and Rummies downgrading of U.S. forces) that have given them the green light.

[Hotrod]

And it's Bush's failed, cowboy policies in Iraq (and Rummies downgrading of U.S. forces) that have given them the green light.

Regardless its a mess and the leftist and rightists are in this boat together like it or not. ???

Ruff waters ahead for all citizens of the planet Earth. :-/

[Spider]

Well at least W*GS hasnt accuse me of hating the yellow horde today ;D

[Rohirrim]

Regardless its a mess and the leftist and rightists are in this boat together like it or not. ???

Ruff waters ahead for all citizens of the planet Earth. :-/

To quote Benjamin Franklin, "We'd better all hang together, or we'll all hang separately."

[Hotrod]

Well at least W*GS hasnt accuse me of hating the yellow horde today ;D

Give it time he will drop in here soon enough and call us racist bigots who are afraid of the peaceful loving communist dicators of the world. Ha!

[W*GS]

Experts say the maneuvers are more of a sales pitch to the Chinese of Russian-made arms — including the country's long-range strategic bombers.
[...]
Baluyevsky on Thursday praised Russian weapons as reliable and easy to repair.

The latter conflicts with the former.

[W*GS]

Give it time he will drop in here soon enough and call us racist bigots who are afraid of the peaceful loving communist dicators of the world.

Nah, you're just ill-informed xenophobic nativists.

[Spider]

Nah, you're just ill-informed xenophobic nativists.
Please tell me there is a cure for us ;D

[Hotrod]

LOL right on cue rofl

Hey dont argue with the man he "IS" the NRA

[Hotrod]

Hey W*GS you dont happen to drive a white pickup and recently were in the Crawford TX area by any chance?

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The latter conflicts with the former.
Why is that?

It's obvious to me that Russia understands that China is growing faster than any other country, that they share a common border so being friends is probably a good idea and there is tons of money to be made selling them military weaponery. A really don't see much more than this in this story.

[W*GS]

Why is that?

"Reliable" and "easy to repair" are not good signs.

It's obvious to me that Russia understands that China is growing faster than any other country, that they share a common border so being friends is probably a good idea and there is tons of money to be made selling them military weaponery. A really don't see much more than this in this story.

Yep - Russia can sell outdated flaky garbage materiel to China at inflated prices. In terms of a threat to the US' military superiority? Not much. Let's keep an eye on things, but let's not blow it out of proportion.

[Rohirrim]

Nah, you're just ill-informed xenophobic nativists.

http://www.strengthinperspective.com/mpfindor/mpgal42/webpix/Caveman.jpg
"Whatch 'ou call me?"

[Bronco_Beerslug]

"Reliable" and "easy to repair" are not good signs.
.
It's obvious you don't understand the role vodka plays in Russian culture.

[Rascal]

actually reliable and easy to repair are not contrary...working for the air force in this line of work I know.

You want your product to be reliable and easy to repair :)

[W*GS]

It's obvious you don't understand the role vodka plays in Russian culture.

I thought it was antifreeze.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I thought it was antifreeze.
:) Both have an equally important role there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Hey W*GS you dont happen to drive a white pickup and recently were in the Crawford TX area by any chance?

LOL

^5

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

China-Russia-Iran alliance - blowback from Iraq & other Bush fiascos

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

Excerpts:

THE GREAT PAN-ASIAN ENERGY ALLIANCE

The new major alliance is China & Iran & Russia of truly monstrous proportions. Its contractual basis is coming together like a concrete foundation. No name of “Shanghai Coop Group” has yet to be bandied about, which might be intended. Its reality is in form and essence, not yet title, kept in low profile. Its reality will be so powerful as to change the geopolitical balance of power, if not already. The thwarted Unocal deal is sure to motivate further movement toward the building of alliances outside the US sphere of influence.

Strong ties are growing, from early vines to massive conduits, between Moscow and Beijing, between Teheran and Beijing, and between Moscow and Teheran. The balance of world power is changing, with hardly a word reported in the highly distracted media. In fact, since the March 2005 trip by Bush to visit with Putin in Moscow, Iran has strangely NOT been in the news. Here are developments in the powerful triangle of new commercial ties, mostly pertaining to energy. Sino-Russian relations have reached in their words “unparalleled heights” with arms sales and energy deals. Last year a $2 billion arms deal was signed for Russia to deliver ships, submarines, missiles, and aircraft to China. Joint military exercises are even planned. A 20% annual growth rate is seen in non-military trade, worth $20 billion in 2004 and expected to hit $60 by 2010, mostly in energy supply export to China. Russia pledged to double electricity exports to China, to 800 million kilowatt hours by 2006. Two Russian energy giants, Unified Energy Systems and Gazprom, are courting Chinese invested ownership. Russia had committed in 2002 to spend $2 billion on an oil pipeline from Siberia to Daqing in northeastern China. In 2004, Japan entered the picture with a huge $10 billion infusion to redirect the same pipeline to terminate at the Russian Pacific port of Nakhodka. A Russian port is more accessible to Japan than a Chinese inland city. Beijing might not feel slighted at all, since Japan footed the bill, and a pipeline leg can be built to direct oil flow to a Chinese city.

China was quietly involved in the high jinks “acquisition” of the Yukos production subsidiary named Yuganskneftegaz (easy for you to say) with a $6 billion financing. The money seals a deal for supply to China National Petroleum Corp (CNPC), but retains the former Yukos unit as a separate state-owned company. Its purpose is to supply China with energy supplies. CNPC is also directly linked to Gazprom in joint ventures to develop energy reserves inside Iran. A firm three-way fabric is being woven.

In March 2004, another Chinese state-owned oil giant Zhuhai Zhenrong Corp signed a long-term agreement with Iran for liquefied natural gas (LNG). In October 2004 a larger long-term $100 billion deal with yet another Chinese state-owned oil giant Sinopec was cut for delivery of LNG from Iran and its Yadavaran oilfield, which will provide 150 thousand barrels of oil per day. One can easily conclude that China is integrally invested in Iranian energy exploration, drilling, and production, in addition to petrochemical and natural gas infrastructure. China is now the #1 destination for Iranian oil export. We have clear defiance of the USA here. China has invested over $20 billion in Iran, in clear violation of the US Iran-Libya Sanctions Act. Violations began long ago, with Chinese provision of Silkworm missiles to Teheran.

THE GEOPOLITICAL ANGLE

The geopolitical impact comes with compatible harmonious foreign policies regarding Taiwan and Chechnya, and in steadfast obstruction by Russia and China in any United Nations initiative to condemn Iran. Their seats on the UN Security Council permits a quick veto. One can safely conclude that the China-Russia-Iran axis is working to counter the unilateralist stance put forth and global dominance exerted by the United States. They wish to limit the US influence in Asia, the Caspian region, and the Persian Gulf. The power of the pen is seen with multi-billion$ energy and military contractual agreements. The position can be observed by China’s foreign minister Qian Qichen, a distinguished diplomat. He said “The United States has tightened its control of the Middle East, Central Asia, Southeast Asia, and Northeast Asia. testifies that Washington’s anti-terror campaign has already gone beyond the scope of self-defense… The US case in Iraq has caused the Muslim world and Arab countries to believe that the superpower already regards them as targets its democratic reform program.” Iran lies at the focal point for Persian Gulf expansion of thinly disguised democratic reform which would provide cover for any attempt to tighten control of this critical energy producing region. Russia and China offer clear deep military support for Iran. THAT IN MY OPINION IS PRECISELY WHY THE USA HAS BACKED OFF WITH IRAN. We live in dangerous times. The wild card in the Iran situation is Israel. Unofficial reports claim the largest Iranian oilfield was taken offline recently after a small scale bombing (whose coverage curiously eluded the press). Black bag covert operations might have begun. This is beyond the scope of my expertise or interest.

New operational practice might be underway among the China Russia Iran alliance. These three nations form the cornerstone of large energy and military trade with enormous contracts. What is new might be their secretive development, so as not to stir the great US power, its military apparatus, and its Congressional body. To counter the US-centric world, the new axis might choose to rely on secrecy as it evolves, develops, and solidifies. It represents a magnificent challenge to US dominance, which some label as hegemony.

An enormous test comes over the horizon with the Iranian Oil Bourse. The sale of oil & natural gas is without question to be conducted in a currency besides the USDollar, namely the euro. That will surely tweak the US leadership noses. Upcoming competition is heralded between this new bourse and the International Petroleum Exchange in London, and the New York Mercantile Exchange. The world’s Petro-Dollar system will soon be directly challenged. Anyone who thinks the Chinese yuan currency basket announcement is not somehow centrally important to the Iranian oil bourse creation, is sadly clueless. The Chinese currency delink to the USDollar next will undermine the Petro-Dollar system itself.

The building of an extra-US alliance is really an anti-US alliance, motivated by frustration over 10 to 15 years of dominance which shows little evidence of consensus building. The US officials have taken the position that the world’s lone superpower DOES NOT NEED approval by other nations. Well, guess what! The world response is to attempt to gradually isolate the United States and to operate on vital strategically important matters independently, with no consultation or cooperation. The most dangerous development is the nuclear card being dealt to Iran by Russia and China. The Shanghai Coop Group is gradually taking shape, in substance but not name. That might be their intention, to lie low, get it done, and sneak up on a superpower whose population is fat, slow, poorly read, indulgent, sleepy, distracted, and increasingly compromised. A sense of entitlement is pervasive and disturbing.

These and other topics with bearing on energy and financial world can be covered and analyzed in greater depth. The Petro-Dollar system is under siege, quietly but effectively. Implications to interest rates and sovereign power are big. Extension to threats of wider military conflict in the Middle East is very real. Watch for nonsensical stories about Iran in the near future.

[elsid13]

Just to Hotrod and Spider a little more excited: (PLEASE THIS FROM NPR)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4802467&sourceCode=RSS

The Chinese Navy is repairing an ex-Soviet aircraft carrier, according to media reports. While it would require more work to make it functional, the vessel would be China's first carrier. Michele Norris talks with Andrew Koch of Jane's Defence Weekly.

Koch and his colleague Yihong Chang report this week on repairs that China's People's Liberation Army Navy is making to the carrier Varyag. In images obtained by Jane's, workers at the Chinese Dalian Shipyard appear to have repainted the Varyag in the country's military colors.

The ship, built in the 1980s, was auctioned by Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union. It was purchased by a Hong Kong company, with the stated purpose of creating a hotel and resort craft.

[Hotrod]

Just to Hotrod and Spider a little more excited: (PLEASE THIS FROM NPR)
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4802467&sourceCode=RSS

The Chinese Navy is repairing an ex-Soviet aircraft carrier, according to media reports. While it would require more work to make it functional, the vessel would be China's first carrier. Michele Norris talks with Andrew Koch of Jane's Defence Weekly.

Koch and his colleague Yihong Chang report this week on repairs that China's People's Liberation Army Navy is making to the carrier Varyag. In images obtained by Jane's, workers at the Chinese Dalian Shipyard appear to have repainted the Varyag in the country's military colors.

The ship, built in the 1980s, was auctioned by Ukraine after the fall of the Soviet Union. It was purchased by a Hong Kong company, with the stated purpose of creating a hotel and resort craft.

China is coming China is coming.......is that the response you expected ;D

This does not scare me at all. That tub would be sank as soon as the first bullets began to fly.

[elsid13]

China is coming China is coming.......is that the response you expected ;D

This does not scare me at all. That tub would be sank as soon as the first bullets began to fly.


It should. This story is limited, but they are actual doing two things; rebuilding and upgrading this CVN and having their naval archtects go over itpiece by piece to see how it built and develop designs for building their own. Those design are working their way into their naval shipyards.

This is the first clear sign that PLAN is positioning itself to conduct deep water operations. Though running naval air ops is very hard and it would take time learn.

[Rascal]

I'm not concerned about China in a non-asian engagement but if localized to a asian conflict it could be very interesting in a bad way.

[Hotrod]

It should. This story is limited, but they are actual doing two things; rebuilding and upgrading this CVN and having their naval archtects go over itpiece by piece to see how it built and develop designs for building their own. Those design are working their way into their naval shipyards.

This is the first clear sign that PLAN is positioning itself to conduct deep water operations. Though running naval air ops is very hard and it would take time learn.

I guess I dont see it as new news in that what I and other have been saying is China is going to seek to expand their military reach. Some say they cant even get to Taiwan ROFL! soon they will be able to extend a right hook almost anywhere in the world the chose. Yet we continue to allow them to dump cheap products on our market. They are getting rich and building a huge military on OUR dime. :(

[REB]

An article/opinion piece on China's growing military

http://www.constitutionparty.com/news.php?aid=219


REB

1-2-3- :USA: :Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge:

[El Guapo]

anyone read tom clancy's The Bear and The Dragon? odd

[W*GS]

anyone read tom clancy's The Bear and The Dragon? odd

I read it a couple years ago. Typical Clancy stuff - strong on the military angles, weak on the political stuff. But that's how he does things - make up a rather fantastic political scenario so he can show the US military kicking butt in response.

[elsid13]

Amazing has anyone be watching the North Korea issue. China sure has alot influenence yet they refuse to use it with that short sh!t in NK. Almost like they want him to remain a problem.

[REB]

Amazing has anyone be watching the North Korea issue. China sure has alot influenence yet they refuse to use it with that short sh!t in NK. Almost like they want him to remain a problem.


I'm sure China loves our involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan and our concerns over Irans and N.Koreas nuclear ambitions. It keeps us occupied while they continue to become the next red menace.

REB

:USA: 1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!! :charge: