Gates being hardballed by the Chargettes

[Bob's your Information Minister]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...140813162&ATT=5

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/nfl/_photos3/2002-09-27-marty.jpg

The San Diego Chargers have made their move in the contract stalemate with All-Pro tight end Antonio Gates.

FOXSports.com has learned that the Chargers sent Gates a letter informing him that if he does not sign his tender (reported to be $380,000) by Saturday, he will be held out of both the season opener against Dallas in addition to the last two preseason games.

The letter also states that for every preseason and regular season game he misses after Saturday's game, he will be sat for an extra game. In other words, if Gates does not sign his tender until after the preseason, he will miss the first three games of the season, as the contract impasse between the two sides now hits another level. He will also not receive a game check for those games he is forced to sit.

For the games Gates is forced to miss, he will be held off the team's 53-man roster.

Gates last year was named an All Pro and wants to be paid along the lines of Chiefs' perennial Pro Bowl tight end Tony Gonzalez. The Chargers have negotiated with Gates for a while, but when they could not get a deal done prior to camp, Gates boycotted training camp.

Gates, who did not play college football, had a breakout year in 2004, making 81 catches for 964 yards and 13 touchdowns.

[ludo21]

Wow, i thnk the Chargers didnt need this distraction at all.

Charger fans who troll here, whats ur take on this contract situation? pay him?? stay firm??

[SoCalBronco]

What a joke. Gates should call them up and just laugh at them over the phone. They are hurting themselves alot more than hurting him by keeping him out of games. Stupid empty threats.

[DBroncos4life]

he is a restricted rights FA so its not like he is holding out. Thats a pretty crappy offer if you ask me. You would think they would want to lock him up for a long time. According to ESPN they have the cap room as well.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Gates without Chargers = 8-8.

[GreatBronco16]

I'm glad to see teams not giving into players because they have one good year.

[DBroncos4life]

I'm glad to see teams not giving into players because they have one good year.


His contract is up GB, but because he is a restricted FA no other team can talk to him but SD. This isn't his first good year either. His rookie year was much better then TG's and Sharpes.

[SoCalBronco]

Gates without Chargers = 8-8.

More like 6-10, Bob. They will be around 8-8/9-7 with him due to the toughest schedule in the NFL.

[ludo21]

I'm glad to see teams not giving into players because they have one good year.


Yea, but you know they could lock him up this year and probably get him cheaper than if he plays this year out and then goes to the FA market.

Dumb chargers :crazy:

[Rascal]

Chargers are so freaking stupid. If I'm Gates I tell f off and sit the season out. He will easily make more next year to make up for not getting his 385k. There is no reason for him to play for that.

[Bronx33]

Just fricken great! i got him on my FFL.............

[Rascal]

They had all offseason to give him a decent contract and they didn't...serves them right for being stupid.

[Bronco LB 59]

I agree with ludo, DBroncos4life, So Cal, Rascal here

Employment is voluntary in this country. Gates isn't under contract. They cannot force him to work. I think he has a lot more leverage than the Chargers think.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

The Chargeless will fold like a cheap suit..... If I were running that team, Gates and LT would have access to the vault.....

[Dukes]

The Sparklers just shot themselves in the foot on this one. Just pay the man

[DBroncos4life]

I agree with ludo, DBroncos4life, So Cal here

Employment is voluntary in this country. Gates isn't under contract. They cannot force him to work. I think he has a lot more leverage than the Chargers think.


I find if funny that they would offer him that. If he was allowed to talk to other teams I bet they would have offered 10 times that. Pretty weak display by the Chargers.

[Rascal]

for 385K he has more leverage then they do. They need him...he can survive for 9 months before he signs with another team for a multi-million dollar contract.

[TheChamp247]

What a joke. Gates should call them up and just laugh at them over the phone. They are hurting themselves alot more than hurting him by keeping him out of games. Stupid empty threats.
exactly without gates on thier offense who is their primary recieving target? keenen mcardell? ha yea thats a real threat. when we play them we might as well put dat on keenen and blitz champ all day long. one year wonder.

[Dr. Broncenstein]

The WORST thing the guy could do is sign the lowball tender.... Imagine if he blew his knee out this year, with a gazillion dollar contract (deservedly so) waiting just around the corner....

Here's to Gates holding out.... and becoming our big free-agent aquisition next year....

[Tredici]

Maintain your principles Gates! Sit out!

[Clockwork Orange]

Gates without Chargers = 8-8.

Gates must be the greatest player in the history of sports if he can go 8-8 without his teammates.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Gates must be the greatest player in the history of sports if he can go 8-8 without his teammates.

Oops. Ha!

[boltaneer]

From what I understand the holdup on a new contract is not an issue of money but more of an issue of the length of the contract. Gates wants "Gonzalez money" and while it's not "Gonzalez money" I believe the Chargers are offering near Gonzalez money however Gates and his agent wants a three year deal, not a five or six year deal that the Chargers want.

It's not like they are saying play for the 380K this year and that's your only option. The Chargers understand that he has outplayed the 380K that he is going to make this year. Both sides have been trying to hammer out a contract for a long time. This is just a move by A.J. Smith to speed up the process. Could it backfire? It sure could. But the last time an UDFA tried this with the Chargers was Jason Ball last year. He's pumping gas somewhere in New Hampshire I believe.

A.J. Smith and Gates seemingly have a good relationship. I think he's getting impatient and miffed at this whole situation howver:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sport...1s31canepa.html

Gates wants to be the highest-paid tight end in the league, to make more than Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez and Baltimore's Todd Heap. Those two have deals that included more than $10 million in signing and roster bonuses. So did Kellen Winslow II, but that was draft money, so it doesn't fit into this equation. The Chargers are willing to go high, but not that high.

I can see their point – to a point. Gates is two years out of Kent State, where he played only basketball, and was an undrafted free agent. He has had one great year. Gonzalez is about to start his ninth season, Heap his fifth. Does Gates deserve as much?

I'd say yes, as much, but not more.

"What we're offering," Smith says, "is an unbelievable amount of money, but we're still talking. They don't want to play for $380,000 and they shouldn't play for $380,000."

"He is everything I want to be a part of what we're building here," Smith says. "Our relationship with his agent has been terrific.

[sirhcyennek81]

He had one good year. Gonzalez makes the money he makes because he is consistently one of the nfl's better tight ends. Gates is no Gonzalez. If he wants the deal he thinks he should get, he should report, sign the tender, and move on with it. If he repeats last season, then he will get the deal. If not from san diego, from somewhere else.

[boltaneer]

BTW, the Chargers can match any offer for next year so if he doesn't get a long term deal (which I doubt. It will eventually get worked out.), he will at least be a Charger for two more years.

[Rocket 7]

Sandy Eggo doesn't F around

[DBroncos4life]

He had one good year. Gonzalez makes the money he makes because he is consistently one of the nfl's better tight ends. Gates is no Gonzalez. If he wants the deal he thinks he should get, he should report, sign the tender, and move on with it. If he repeats last season, then he will get the deal. If not from san diego, from somewhere else.



While I can see your point some what, he doesn't have to sign though. If I just went to the pro bowl and I just set a NFL mark for the most tds in a year by a TE I would expect to make more then $380K the next year. Even more so because its kind of a contract year for him. Clayton has the Chargers at 7.27 mill under the cap. What would it hurt for them to push this deal up to a cool mill and see what they can do as the year goes on?

[DBroncos4life]

Yeah I forgot that Kellen Winslow II makes more money then Gates, hell our very own Putzier is making more money then Gates. Toss the man is money and move on with it.

[ludo21]

Plus you can usually tell if the guy was a fluke, Gates may have caught a few of those TD's in the beginning caz they didnt know who he was and let him slide, but still in the latter part of the year he was busting out awesome grabs and YAC consistently.

Hold out Gates, you know ur worth more!!

[Dr. Broncenstein]

For once in my life, I agree with a holdout..... this guy should be paid... and will....

[JCMElway]

The longer he holds out the better it is for everyone in the AFC West. Couple that with the turmoil in Chefs camp, this is turning out to be one awesome frickin' preseason!

If only there were some problems in Faderland.......Come on Janikowski, get loaded before practice and say something stupid to Sapp or Moss and cause a riot!

[sirhcyennek81]

When you are the team's only passing option...who else is going to get the ball?

[boltaneer]

While I can see your point some what, he doesn't have to sign though. If I just went to the pro bowl and I just set a NFL mark for the most tds in a year by a TE I would expect to make more then $380K the next year. Even more so because its kind of a contract year for him. Clayton has the Chargers at 7.27 mill under the cap. What would it hurt for them to push this deal up to a cool mill and see what they can do as the year goes on?

The Exclusive Rights FA tender has a set number at 380K. It cannot be changed.

If the chargers pull their 380K offer (and change it to whatever number), he is no longer a ERFA, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, so obviously that's not going to happen.

He's either going to play for the 380K or he's going to sign a new fat contract or if he's really foolish, he's going to sit out and go through this again next year.

[Jason in LA]

From the sounds of it the Chargers aren't doing him wrong. They've offered him a mega contract, but he just won't sign it.

[ludo21]

The Exclusive Rights FA tender has a set number at 380K. It cannot be changed.

If the chargers pull their 380K offer (and change it to whatever number), he is no longer a ERFA, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, so obviously that's not going to happen.

He's either going to play for the 380K or he's going to sign a new fat contract or if he's really foolish, he's going to sit out and go through this again next year.


Foolish??? ur saying if he sits out this year teams will forget about him and pay him jack next year?? He gets a vacation all year, IMO, then comes back next off season and a team will pay him to come and join their franchise.

[DBroncos4life]

The Exclusive Rights FA tender has a set number at 380K. It cannot be changed.

If the chargers pull their 380K offer (and change it to whatever number), he is no longer a ERFA, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, so obviously that's not going to happen.

He's either going to play for the 380K or he's going to sign a new fat contract or if he's really foolish, he's going to sit out and go through this again next year.


I didn't know that it was a set deal. Still the Chargers should have the cap room to sign him to a longer deal. I can see the Chargers wanting him to play for pennies because its a better deal for them but come on why not lock the guy up for years and not have to worry about anymore.

[JCMElway]

The Exclusive Rights FA tender has a set number at 380K. It cannot be changed.

If the chargers pull their 380K offer (and change it to whatever number), he is no longer a ERFA, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, so obviously that's not going to happen.

He's either going to play for the 380K or he's going to sign a new fat contract or if he's really foolish, he's going to sit out and go through this again next year.

Is he still a RFA next year? Maybe a dumb question, but why is he restricted? Did they slap the franchise tag on him?

[boltaneer]

Foolish??? ur saying if he sits out this year teams will forget about him and pay him jack next year?? He gets a vacation all year, IMO, then comes back next off season and a team will pay him to come and join their franchise.

No. If he sits out this year (and therefore doesn't play the minimum amount of games requried to credit a season) he is in the same position as he is now, an Exclusive Rights Free Agent.

Even if he plays this year at 380K. Next year the Chargers can match (and probably will) any offer. If the Chargers want to dick him over they can have him for two more years.

I seriously doubt it's going to come down to that but we'll see.

[DBroncos4life]

Is he still a RFA next year? Maybe a dumb question, but why is he restricted? Did they slap the franchise tag on him?


Its because he has only two years of playing time.

[DBroncos4life]

Q: What determines an exclusive rights free agent?
A: Exclusive rights free agents are players with two or fewer years of experience who has no outside negotiating power. His rights belong to his 2004 club, provided that club makes him a minimum qualifying offer, which varies based on tenure. An EFA player may not speak with other teams, and has no other NFL options open to him other than dealing with his previous club.

Here is the full run down of it.

[ludo21]

No. If he sits out this year (and therefore doesn't play the minimum amount of games requried to credit a season) he is in the same position as he is now, an Exclusive Rights Free Agent.

Even if he plays this year at 380K. Next year the Chargers can match (and probably will) any offer. If the Chargers want to dick him over they can have him for two more years.

I seriously doubt it's going to come down to that but we'll see.


o, ok thanks for clearing that up. IMO if they sign him now, they will probably get out of forking him even more money than they will have to next offseason after they have match a massive offer another team will offer.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Q: What determines an exclusive rights free agent?
A: Exclusive rights free agents are players with two or fewer years of experience who has no outside negotiating power. His rights belong to his 2004 club, provided that club makes him a minimum qualifying offer, which varies based on tenure. An EFA player may not speak with other teams, and has no other NFL options open to him other than dealing with his previous club.

Here is the full run down of it.

and unless he plays in 6 games, he won't get credit for this season so he'd be an ERFA next year too.

[boltaneer]

Is he still a RFA next year? Maybe a dumb question, but why is he restricted? Did they slap the franchise tag on him?

Not a dumb question. A lot of this stuff gets confusing at times. Believe me, this has been talked to death on Chargers message boards. askthecommish.com was used as reference. Basically, he needs 4 years to become a UFA. He is entering his third year now. So next year he will still be a RFA and the Chargers will have the first right of refusal.


What qualifications must be met in order for a player to become an UFA as opposed to a RFA?

Answer: When a player with five or more accrued seasons (or with four or more accrued seasons in any Capped Year) reaches the end of his contract, he becomes an UFA. A RFA is any player with three or more accrued seasons, but less than five accrued seasons (or less than four accrued seasons in any capped year) whose contract has expired during that period.

[DBroncos4life]

and unless he plays in 6 games, he won't get credit for this season so he'd be an ERFA next year too.


Sounds like the same deal that the Phins went through with Ogun. I remember he said he was going to sit out half the year so he can become a FA because he needed to play only 6 games. He got traded later on so it didn't matter anymore. Maybe that will happen with Gates :)

[JCMElway]

Not a dumb question. A lot of this stuff gets confusing at times. Believe me, this has been talked to death on Chargers message boards. askthecommish.com was used as reference. Basically, he needs 4 years to become a UFA. He is entering his third year now. So next year he will still be a RFA and the Chargers will have the first right of refusal.


What qualifications must be met in order for a player to become an UFA as opposed to a RFA?

Answer: When a player with five or more accrued seasons (or with four or more accrued seasons in any Capped Year) reaches the end of his contract, he becomes an UFA. A RFA is any player with three or more accrued seasons, but less than five accrued seasons (or less than four accrued seasons in any capped year) whose contract has expired during that period.

So who, in your mind, is the bad guy in all of this? Gates or management?

[BigPlayShay]

Gates without Chargers = 8-8.

Chargers with Gates = 8-8. Drew Brees comes back to earth.

[sirhcyennek81]

Gates is a third year pro, with one good season under his belt. He should sign the tender, get to camp, repeat last season.

[boltaneer]

So who, in your mind, is the bad guy in all of this? Gates or management?

It's hard to say without knowing all the details but here's my take:

From what I understand, it seems like the Chargers are offering a very fair contract considering he's only had one great year.

Gates wants Gonzalez money and the Chargers don't quite want to pay him that much but seemingly are offering something close.

To me, it seems like a fair deal for both sides. Gates gets a big payday sooner than the Chargers have to pay him.

I guess I see Gates as more of the bad guy in this but he participated in all practices that he could until training camp and hasn't mouthed off at all during all this so it's not like he is being a T.O. in all of this. It seems like this is just one of those unfortunate business sides of football

[ludo21]

It's hard to say without knowing all the details but here's my take:

From what I understand, it seems like the Chargers are offering a very fair contract considering he's only had one great year.

Gates wants Gonzalez money and the Chargers don't quite want to pay him that much but seemingly are offering something close.

To me, it seems like a fair deal for both sides. Gates gets a big payday sooner than the Chargers have to pay him.

I guess I see Gates as more of the bad guy in this but he participated in all practices that he could until training camp and hasn't mouthed off at all during all this so it's not like he is being a T.O. in all of this. It seems like this is just one of those unfortunate business sides of football


ya i suppose i too would side with management on this one. Altho he may end up getting Gonzo money, he just doesnt deserve it after only 1 year of production.

- BTW - Whos his agent??

I still want him to hold out tho.. :strong: :moody:

[watermock]

Doesn't sound like our problem. We are all happy campers picking dandylions and eating enormous steaks. You can tell Gates that...maybe he would like to play for us next year....We might be able to rustle up some change...Alexander isn't a spring chicken and Putz isn't breaking the bank.

We could probably agree to send Putz for Gates and even throw in some Rocky Mountain Oysters...maybe a couple extra DL we have lounging around.

[DivineLegion]

He should just come out and tell them hes sick of playing with Brees' Balls and wants to cath for a real man...Rivers...

[boltaneer]

ya i suppose i too would side with management on this one. Altho he may end up getting Gonzo money, he just doesnt deserve it after only 1 year of production.

- BTW - Whos his agent??

I still want him to hold out tho.. :strong: :moody:

Don't get your hopes up. It's not Rosenhaus. ;)

Someone named Andre Colona.

[ludo21]

Don't get your hopes up. It's not Rosenhaus. ;)

Someone named Andre Colona.


DANG! wouldnt that be fun. :boxing:

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Doesn't sound like our problem. We are all happy campers picking dandylions and eating enormous steaks. You can tell Gates that...maybe he would like to play for us next year....We might be able to rustle up some change...Alexander isn't a spring chicken and Putz isn't breaking the bank.

We could probably agree to send Putz for Gates and even throw in some Rocky Mountain Oysters...maybe a couple extra DL we have lounging around.

If the Broncos get Gates, I will leave this site.

[watermock]

If the Broncos get Gates, I will leave this site.

We could easily send them our second #1, Putz and a couple linemen we would have to cut anyway. I honestly think he's that good, and that would be a very fair offer.

[DarkHorse30]

He had one good year. Gonzalez makes the money he makes because he is consistently one of the nfl's better tight ends. Gates is no Gonzalez. If he wants the deal he thinks he should get, he should report, sign the tender, and move on with it. If he repeats last season, then he will get the deal. If not from san diego, from somewhere else.

TE's don't make all-world money, so I don't see how Gates is really pushing the chargers around on this one. Smith should recognize a deal and get half of his offense into camp.....especially since Hudson Hauck's departure, along with a rough road schedule, probabaly means that the chargers offense is going to be tested this year.

With Gates numbers last year, it would be foolish to bank on McCardell and Parker carrying the load. The guy has earned his biggest paycheck, IMO.

[GreatBronco16]

The guy has earned his biggest paycheck, IMO.


After one good year? Nope sorry. He has played two seasons that's it, and he is allready talking about getting Gonzo money? Come on now. It appears the Chargers allready offered him more money and he is turning it down. Kinda like what happend with Portis. Shanny threw a little more money at him hoping he would take it and stay in Denver, but he wanted to be the highest paid RB instead.

I'm glad to see teams not giving into players greed just because of one good year. Hell Brees had one good year, and the media and alot of fans are claiming him God.

I hope he sits out. That would be just fine with me.

[DBroncos4life]

After one good year? Nope sorry. He has played two seasons that's it, and he is allready talking about getting Gonzo money? Come on now. It appears the Chargers allready offered him more money and he is turning it down. Kinda like what happend with Portis. Shanny threw a little more money at him hoping he would take it and stay in Denver, but he wanted to be the highest paid RB instead.

I'm glad to see teams not giving into players greed just because of one good year. Hell Brees had one good year, and the media and alot of fans are claiming him God.

I hope he sits out. That would be just fine with me.


If he signs that he will be making less then Mike Bartrum, Marco Battaglia, Billy Barber, Chirs Baker, our own Stephen Alexander, Steve Heiden, and Keith Heinrich just to name a few. Now without looking at the stats for sure I would say its safe to say that he out preformed everyone of those guys put together.

[GreatBronco16]

If he signs that he will be making less then Mike Bartrum, Marco Battaglia, Billy Barber, Chirs Baker, our own Stephen Alexander, Steve Heiden, and Keith Heinrich just to name a few. Now without looking at the stats for sure I would say its safe to say that he out preformed everyone of those guys put together.


He may have last year. It isn't those guys fault that they are making more money. Still, it seemed that everyone on the Chargers offense had some kind of break out year and now want to be paid for it. Gates had one good year. one. Who knows if he will ever repeat that? I usually like to see a player put up back to back seasons with great numbers before breaking the bank on them.

It's funny, nobody thought that Portis should have gotten the money he wanted when he was in Denver at the time, and he put up back to back 1500 yard seasons. But Gates has one good year, and all of a sudden, he isn't making enough. He can go cry with the rest of the crybabies in the NFL.

Now I don't think he should be getting 300k, nor do I think he deserves 10 million. But it seems like he screwed himself when he signed his initial contract. He should have seen this coming.

[24champ]

If the Broncos get Gates, I will leave this site.


Ok guys lets get to work on acquiring gates!

[boltaneer]

Now I don't think he should be getting 300k, nor do I think he deserves 10 million. But it seems like he screwed himself when he signed his initial contract. He should have seen this coming.

Well, he really didn't have much of a choice since he was an UDFA.

Now if he really wants to get a payday, he can gamble playing with the 380K this year, have another Pro-Bowl season then get PAID witha bigger contract next year, instead of taking the "near Gonzalez" money now.

Peronsally, I think he should just take the "near Gonzalez" offer from the Chargers. Look at Hines Ward. He's had 4 consecutive Pro Bowl seasons and is still "underpaid". He's another guy who is handling it in a pretty classy way though. But unfortunately both Gates and Ward do not like the offers they're being given.

[DBroncos4life]

He may have last year. It isn't those guys fault that they are making more money. Still, it seemed that everyone on the Chargers offense had some kind of break out year and now want to be paid for it. Gates had one good year. one. Who knows if he will ever repeat that? I usually like to see a player put up back to back seasons with great numbers before breaking the bank on them.

It's funny, nobody thought that Portis should have gotten the money he wanted when he was in Denver at the time, and he put up back to back 1500 yard seasons. But Gates has one good year, and all of a sudden, he isn't making enough. He can go cry with the rest of the crybabies in the NFL.

Now I don't think he should be getting 300k, nor do I think he deserves 10 million. But it seems like he screwed himself when he signed his initial contract. He should have seen this coming.

Thats not the point GB his contract is up now. He just can't do anything about it because of the rules set by the NFL. Gates played damn well his rookie year. I knew he was going to be big before the season started. This isn't some fluke thing here, the guy is that good. I'm sorry 380K for a record breaking TE isn't enough. As I pointed out its not like they don't have the cap room to sign him either. Now I don't know how much they offered before either but I do know that Winslow signed a big ass contract and that guy didn't even play a down. Gates is worth more then that.

[DBroncos4life]

Well, he really didn't have much of a choice since he was an UDFA.

Now if he really wants to get a payday, he can gamble playing with the 380K this year, have another Pro-Bowl season then get PAID witha bigger contract next year, instead of taking the "near Gonzalez" money now.

Peronsally, I think he should just take the "near Gonzalez" offer from the Chargers. Look at Hines Ward. He's had 4 consecutive Pro Bowl seasons and is still "underpaid". He's another guy who is handling it in a pretty classy way though. But unfortunately both Gates and Ward do not like the offers they're being given.



I agree with this 100%. Pay him "near Gonzo" because soon enough Gates will be who we compare TE's too. Locking Gates up now pretty much means that he will be getting less money then he is worth in my mind.

[24champ]

Gates being hardballed by our own Champ Bailey! :strong:

]

[GreatBronco16]

Thats not the point GB his contract is up now. He just can't do anything about it because of the rules set by the NFL. Gates played damn well his rookie year. I knew he was going to be big before the season started. This isn't some fluke thing here, the guy is that good. I'm sorry 380K for a record breaking TE isn't enough. As I pointed out its not like they don't have the cap room to sign him either. Now I don't know how much they offered before either but I do know that Winslow signed a big ass contract and that guy didn't even play a down. Gates is worth more then that.


I'm assuming he was drafted by the Chargers correct? What was the contract that they gave him? Gates had an ok year also as a rookie. Nothing earth breaking. Now last year was a great year for him, but it was still just one year. The Chargers are offering him alot of money right now it seems like. Why not just sign what they are offering?

[DBroncos4life]

I'm assuming he was drafted by the Chargers correct? What was the contract that they gave him? Gates had an ok year also as a rookie. Nothing earth breaking. Now last year was a great year for him, but it was still just one year. The Chargers are offering him alot of money right now it seems like. Why not just sign what they are offering?


I don't know what he signed for. NFLPA.com doesn't have him listed on there for whatever reason. I can tell you this though some Justin Peele guy is going to make 1.4 mill this year for them and he hasn't caught a pass yet. If he signs that 380K contract there will be two TE's making more then him and one making the same as him. Sorry I wouldn't sign it either.

[Atlas]

The letter also states that for every preseason and regular season game he misses after Saturday's game, he will be sat for an extra game. In other words, if Gates does not sign his tender until after the preseason, he will miss the first three games of the season, as the contract impasse between the two sides now hits another level. He will also not receive a game check for those games he is forced to sit.

They say here that after he reports he will miss three weeks of games. AND they won't pay him for these games!! Can they do that?? I mean if he reports how can they not pay him!?!?! That is total B.S. I'd tell SD. to kiss my ass and I would see if I could file a grievence with the NFL office. That doesn't make sense and I have never heard that before. How can they suspend him for not reporting to camp after he reports??. You can fine a player but I have never heard of a team not paying a player when he has reported. That is insane. F_ck the Chuggers.

[GreatBronco16]

I don't know what he signed for. NFLPA.com doesn't have him listed on there for whatever reason. I can tell you this though some Justin Peele guy is going to make 1.4 mill this year for them and he hasn't caught a pass yet. If he signs that 380K contract there will be two TE's making more then him and one making the same as him. Sorry I wouldn't sign it either.


I'm not saying he should sign the 380k contract. I am saying he should sign the big one SD is offering. Either that or sit out. I really don't care. One less threat this year for us.

[GreatBronco16]

They say here that after he reports he will miss three weeks of games. AND they won't pay him for these games!! Can they do that?? I mean if he reports how can they not pay him!?!?! That is total B.S. I'd tell SD. to kiss my ass and I would see if I could file a griuevence to the NFL office. That doesn't make sense and I have never heard that before. How can they suspend him for not reporting to camp. You can fine a player but I have never heard of a team not paying a player when he has reported. That is insane. F_ck the Chuggers.


Well it appears it was in the contract that he signed. Maybe he shouldn't have signed it and went elsewhere.

[DBroncos4life]

Gonzo signed a 7 year 18.5 million dollar deal in 02. I don't know what the bonus was but that isn't all that bad. The next three years Gonzo makes bank though. 3.6 mill, 4.4 mill, and 4.4 mill.

[Atlas]

Well it appears it was in the contract that he signed. Maybe he shouldn't have signed it and went elsewhere.

I'm not sure what his contract status is but players hold out and when a player reports he is to be paid. If I knew that WHEN I reported I wouldn't be paid for three weeks anyway.... I wouldn't report at all. S.D. is so stupid. They only have two weapons on offense in LT and Gates. That's it. If Gates wants too much money than S.D. can negotiate with him but the stance they are taking now doesn't make sense.

[DBroncos4life]

Well it appears it was in the contract that he signed. Maybe he shouldn't have signed it and went elsewhere.


Again GB he isn't under contract. There are rules he has to follow because he has only played two years. He has to play 6 games next year or he still is a Exclusive Rights FA.

A: Exclusive rights free agents are players with two or fewer years of experience who has no outside negotiating power. His rights belong to his 2004 club, provided that club makes him a minimum qualifying offer, which varies based on tenure. An EFA player may not speak with other teams, and has no other NFL options open to him other than dealing with his previous club.

His rights belong to the Chargers but he isn't under contract with them.

[GreatBronco16]

I'm not sure what his contract status is but players hold out and when a player reports he is to be paid. If I knew that WHEN I reported I wouldn't be paid for three weeks anyway.... I wouldn't report at all. S.D. is so stupid. They only have two weapons on offense in LT and Gates. That's it. If Gates wants too much money than S.D. can negotiate with him but the stance they are taking now doesn't make sense.


It has nothing to do with rather he reports or not. It's rather he signs his contract or not before preseason ends.

[GreatBronco16]

Again GB he isn't under contract. There are rules he has to follow because he has only played two years. He has to play 6 games next year or he still is a Exclusive Rights FA.

A: Exclusive rights free agents are players with two or fewer years of experience who has no outside negotiating power. His rights belong to his 2004 club, provided that club makes him a minimum qualifying offer, which varies based on tenure. An EFA player may not speak with other teams, and has no other NFL options open to him other than dealing with his previous club.

His rights belong to the Chargers but he isn't under contract with them.

How many years did he sign for to begin with?

[boltaneer]

Gates went undrafted but the Chargers signed him to a two year contract. By NFL rule, he cannot become an unrestricted free agent until he has four credited seasons (unless he is cut). Right now he has two. No matter how well he's played, he doesn't have any leverage in this situation. He can only negotiate with the Chargers in his third season. If he holds out, then he still can only negotiate with the Chargers next year. In his fourth season, San Diego can match any offer. He's a Charger for two more years whether he likes it or not. That's how the NFL works.

The Chargers could be pricks and make him play for the 380K but they're offering him a hefty "near Gonzalez" contract. He just wants to be paid more. And like I mentioned earlier, I've heard a major dispute is with the length of the contract.

I'm a Charger fan so I know I have a tendency to defend my team but in this particular case I don't see how people can be blaming the Chargers here. They are offering him a big contract but both sides can't agree. By issuing this ultimatum to Gates they are trying to end this dispute and get him into camp. It may not be the preferred way in the eyes of some fans but that's how A.J. Smith plays hardball. He did it with Eli Manning and the Giants, Philip Rivers and Jimmy Sexton, Jason Ball and his agent, Shawne Merriman and the Postons. The list goes on. And in every case to date, A.J. Smith has gotten what he wanted. I, for one, am surprised A.J. Smith did not do this earlier.

[watermock]

Gonzo signed a 7 year 18.5 million dollar deal in 02. I don't know what the bonus was but that isn't all that bad. The next three years Gonzo makes bank though. 3.6 mill, 4.4 mill, and 4.4 mill.

Are you kidding me? That's 2.5 million a year. I don't believe that figure whatsoever.

If Gates is looking for that money I throw the book at him. Your wrong. Isn't all that bad? I think the Putz is close to that. 7 years? That's not correct at all.

[Atlas]

It has nothing to do with rather he reports or not. It's rather he signs his contract or not before preseason ends.

And if he signs the contract after week one than he won't get paid until week 4. That is horsesh_t.

[watermock]

And if he signs the contract after week one than he won't get paid until week 4. That is horsesh_t.

It's week 6.

Sorry, cable is out, they are screwing with me, so your stuck with me. Plus its raining outside. Happy Happy beans...If these beans freeze early we lose everything. Leverage? Heh.

Beans are setting like crazy and more rain tonight. Got insurance and planted (you can do whatever you want later), and the beans have grown like little munchkins and are setting pods (They plan to take over the world). Don't let me bother you. I checked and our beans have almost caught up to non-insured crops. Still, we are done if we get an early frost. Usually, it will just burn the leaves a little tho. Need sun. Getting rain tonight. Good, but need sun calories. That's it for mocks farm report.

[GreatBronco16]

Gates went undrafted but the Chargers signed him to a two year contract. By NFL rule, he cannot become an unrestricted free agent until he has four credited seasons (unless he is cut). Right now he has two. No matter how well he's played, he doesn't have any leverage in this situation. He can only negotiate with the Chargers in his third season. If he holds out, then he still can only negotiate with the Chargers next year. In his fourth season, San Diego can match any offer. He's a Charger for two more years whether he likes it or not. That's how the NFL works.

The Chargers could be pricks and make him play for the 380K but they're offering him a hefty "near Gonzalez" contract. He just wants to be paid more. And like I mentioned earlier, I've heard a major dispute is with the length of the contract.

I'm a Charger fan so I know I have a tendency to defend my team but in this particular case I don't see how people can be blaming the Chargers here. They are offering him a big contract but both sides can't agree. By issuing this ultimatum to Gates they are trying to end this dispute and get him into camp. It may not be the preferred way in the eyes of some fans but that's how A.J. Smith plays hardball. He did it with Eli Manning and the Giants, Philip Rivers and Jimmy Sexton, Jason Ball and his agent, Shawne Merriman and the Postons. The list goes on. And in every case to date, A.J. Smith has gotten what he wanted. I, for one, am surprised A.J. Smith did not do this earlier.

Ahhhhhhh, thank you for that. Well it looks like he better just sign that contract that SD is offering him. Either that or he is only screwing himself. If he went undrafted, he should be thankfull he is getting what he is getting. Hell, he should be gratefull he is even playing.

[DBroncos4life]

Are you kidding me? That's 2.5 million a year. I don't believe that figure whatsoever.

If Gates is looking for that money I throw the book at him. Your wrong. Isn't all that bad? I think the Putz is close to that. 7 years? That's not correct at all.


Look fool don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no clue about anything.

Player Profile
Gonzalez, Tony
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

TE (#88)
Year: 1997

Kansas City Chiefs
Round: 1

Dallas, TX
Position: 13

Salary History

2002 550000.00
2003 650000.00
2004 2000000.00
2005 3000000.00
2006 3600000.00
2007 4400000.00
2008 4400000.00

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=25050


Learn how to look crap up.

[DBroncos4life]

Player Profile
Putzier, Jeb
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

TE (#)
Year: 2002

Denver Broncos
Round: 6

Aurora, CO
Position: 19

Salary History

2005 500000.00
2006 1500000.00
2007 1700000.00
2008 3000000.00
2009 3300000.00

Putz signed a 5 year deal

[watermock]

He should sign with Denver. It would be better for all involved.

[Rocket 7]

Who knows? Chargers suck!

[DBroncos4life]

He should sign with Denver. It would be better for all involved.



Thats it? I prove you wrong and thats all you have to say?

[GreatBronco16]

Thats it? I prove you wrong and thats all you have to say?

Did you really expect anything more?

[DBroncos4life]

Did you really expect anything more?


I really had my heart set out to hear about his cat or the farm but I guess this will have to do.

[GreatBronco16]

I really had my heart set out to hear about his cat or the farm but I guess this will have to do.

Or that 10 million dollar tractor or something. Hell maybe he got a new pig he wants to talk about.

[watermock]

Look fool don't tell me I'm wrong when you have no clue about anything.

Player Profile
Gonzalez, Tony
View Stats at Players Inc Site
Player Info
Draft Info

TE (#88)
Year: 1997

Kansas City Chiefs
Round: 1

Dallas, TX
Position: 13

Salary History

2002 550000.00
2003 650000.00
2004 2000000.00
2005 3000000.00
2006 3600000.00
2007 4400000.00
2008 4400000.00

http://www.nflpa.org/Members/playerProfile.asp?ID=25050


Learn how to look crap up.

Very impressive. Now look at the signing bonus. Gosh look, it doesn't include his signing bonus. Go look up Champ Bailey's salary according to the NFLPA last year and explain his 63 million dollar contract. Your such a dimwit it's almost the special olympics meal of the day.

Tell me where the NFLPA gives us his signing bonus there genius.

Contract Details
On September 13, 2002, the Chiefs signed Gonzo to a seven-year contract worth $31.5 million. It included a $10 million signing bonus, according to the Associated Press.

Your a fool. You learn how to look things up you moron. God this is funny.

[watermock]

Aren't we all special now? You all got OWNED. His contract had 10 million up front. 31 million, and that was in 2002.

Next. Go line up and eat crow you idiots.

[watermock]

C'mon morons, tell me again his contract was for 18 million. Your so damn clueless, you don't even know that contracts try to push everything into the signing bonus. Going to the NFLPA is amusing. Agents want to push everything they can into signing bonus, and now roster bonus. You know dick.

[watermock]

Cmon boys, tell me how stupid I am and how I jerk off my cat and my neices.

Fact is, I just served you. C'mon boys. Tell me all about Gonzo's 18 million dollar contract. Morons.

[watermock]

All the cockroaches seem to have scattered.

[DarkHorse30]

After one good year? Nope sorry. He has played two seasons that's it, and he is allready talking about getting Gonzo money? Come on now. It appears the Chargers allready offered him more money and he is turning it down. Kinda like what happend with Portis. Shanny threw a little more money at him hoping he would take it and stay in Denver, but he wanted to be the highest paid RB instead.


Maybe you missed my point. I said he has earned his biggest paycheck......in other words, his value is at it's highest point NOW. If he has another great year, than he will have proved that he is the real deal....but consider that SD really surprised nearly everybody last year, and with Gates' coach gone, and with Hauck gone, it's not likely that their offense will produce as much against a tougher schedule, and with everybody circling their game and not overlooking them.

Go back and look at the numbers. I think it would be safe to say that the Chargers wouldn't have sniffed the post-season without 14 TDs from the TE/WR. Also consider that teams with good/great TEs make their QB look much better than average. You have QBs like Green and Brees dumping to their TE for nearly EVERY 1st down......that's a pretty good ace up your sleeve when negotiating a contract.

[Old Dude]

Hopefully, Gates will test them and sit out the first two weeks.

After we hammer the Bolts on September 18, Gates can break their bank.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Interesting how some people are yelling hooray for a holdout (he deserves more they say) who was offered very good money apparently by the team but in other threads say a contract is a contract.

[bendog]

but gates doesn't have a contract, does he? Maybe they should give him a choice: 5 years at whatever they're offereing long term ... less than Gonzo but presumably way more than the avg TE, or 1 year at the salary of the 5th best paid, and let him gamble on putting up the numbers again.

[DBroncos4life]

Cmon boys, tell me how stupid I am and how I jerk off my cat and my neices.

Fact is, I just served you. C'mon boys. Tell me all about Gonzo's 18 million dollar contract. Morons.



You are dumb. In my first post I even said that is without the bonus dumbass. Guess you can't read either huh?

[DarkHorse30]

Interesting how some people are yelling hooray for a holdout (he deserves more they say) who was offered very good money apparently by the team but in other threads say a contract is a contract.

An NFL contract is NOT a contract. If it were, than more players would be raking in the 6-8M per year that year 3,4 and 5 have penciled in. The only guaranteed money is in the bonus and another .5-1M salary.

That's why you have NFL players constantly trying to score a big deal. Every contract signed usually means more money in their pockets, in terms of guaranteed money.

[DBroncos4life]

An NFL contract is NOT a contract. If it were, than more players would be raking in the 6-8M per year that year 3,4 and 5 have penciled in. The only guaranteed money is in the bonus and another .5-1M salary.

That's why you have NFL players constantly trying to score a big deal. Every contract signed usually means more money in their pockets, in terms of guaranteed money.



Well it would be one thing if he was just holding out, but he isn't he just istn't signing the contract that they are offering him now. He still is a FA here.

[bpc]

Can we trade Putz for Gates please? :)

[Bronco_Beerslug]

An NFL contract is NOT a contract. If it were, than more players would be raking in the 6-8M per year that year 3,4 and 5 have penciled in. The only guaranteed money is in the bonus and another .5-1M salary.

That's why you have NFL players constantly trying to score a big deal. Every contract signed usually means more money in their pockets, in terms of guaranteed money.
:) I'm well aware of both the players and teams views on NFL contracts. My point was some people here posted in this thread had posted "a contract is a contract" when they were defending the NFL teams in other threads about holdouts.

[bendog]

But Gates doesn't have a contract. So, I don't follow your analogy.

However, I think I agree with you on contracts. IMO it's more an individual thing. Some contracts, esp those of younger guys drafted in lower rounds, do vastly underpay the performance, and teams should do the right thing. These guys have very short careers and literally pay with their bodies.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

But Gates doesn't have a contract. So, I don't follow your analogy.

However, I think I agree with you on contracts. IMO it's more an individual thing. Some contracts, esp those of younger guys drafted in lower rounds, do vastly underpay the performance, and teams should do the right thing. These guys have very short careers and literally pay with their bodies.

Techinally but he can't go play for anyone else and he has to play for the money due this year or the offer the Chargers made or sit.

[bendog]

Right. And not that it will happen, but merely to understand how the CBA works: suppose he chose not to accept the low tender and the parties couldn't work out either a one year or multi-year deal, and he sat out the year; then, in 06 suppose some team tendered him a multi-year offer - IF SD then matched the multi-year offer would he have to take it, or could he take a one year deal and try FA the next year? Sort of like getting a franchise tag?

[Kaylore]

You think they trade Gates and put Jackson in his spot? May they'll take a trade for Putz a pick, and a D-lineman for Gates. :wiggle:

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Right. And not that it will happen, but merely to understand how the CBA works: suppose he chose not to accept the low tender and the parties couldn't work out either a one year or multi-year deal, and he sat out the year; then, in 06 suppose some team tendered him a multi-year offer - IF SD then matched the multi-year offer would he have to take it, or could he take a one year deal and try FA the next year? Sort of like getting a franchise tag?
I don't know for sure. Where is the SD fan that was here earlier? He could tell us

[boltaneer]

I don't know for sure. Where is the SD fan that was here earlier? He could tell us

If he sits out the 05 season, he does not get credited for this year and he's right back to where he is now for the 06 season, an exclusive rights free agent. The Chargers are definitely gambling by threatening to sit Gates out of games, as that could really send them off to a slow start but players have to understand that no one player is bigger than the team.

A.J. Smith has said they won't trade him. Of course, that can change but A.J.'s a pretty good man of his word.

Because of his ERFA status, Gates really has no choice but to play. He can play for the 380K this year and hope that some team will offer a big contract next year (and the Chargers may match it) or he can play for the big contract the Chargers have offered him now.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If he sits out the 05 season, he does not get credited for this year and he's right back to where he is now for the 06 season, an exclusive rights free agent. The Chargers are definitely gambling by threatening to sit Gates out of games, as that could really send them off to a slow start but players have to understand that no one player is bigger than the team.

A.J. Smith has said they won't trade him. Of course, that can change but A.J.'s a pretty good man of his word.

Because of his ERFA status, Gates really has no choice but to play. He can play for the 380K this year and hope that some team will offer a big contract next year (and the Chargers may match it) or he can play for the big contract the Chargers have offered him now.
Thx for the info! :) I really find it hard to believe he would risk playing this year for the set salary he's due. So I'm thinking he's going to end up taking their offer. Maybe he does sit a couple games or so and they offer him more?

[Great13]

Aren't we all special now? You all got OWNED. His contract had 10 million up front. 31 million, and that was in 2002.

Next. Go line up and eat crow you idiots.

...

[Drek]

Because of his ERFA status, Gates really has no choice but to play. He can play for the 380K this year and hope that some team will offer a big contract next year (and the Chargers may match it) or he can play for the big contract the Chargers have offered him now.

Or he can hold out until the final six weeks of the season, at which point he still gets elidgability for the season. Then he looks for the big payday in the off-season, which at that point I doubt the Chargers would want to match, for a guy who is clearly not wanting to play for them. He'd loose about 2/3rds of his 380k, but thats not much compared to the signing bonus he's after.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Bolts better lock him up long-term. I'm sure there would be more than a couple teams picking in the 20's who would gladly give up a 1st and a 3rd if he duplicates last season's performance.