Overrated? Not Bailey

[TheManeMan]

By Dan Pompei - SportingNews (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=9103)

In his first year in Denver, Champ Bailey did not lead the league in interceptions, prevent every top receiver he faced from catching a pass or backpedal on water. So the prevailing wisdom says he is overrated, overhyped and overvalued.

In truth, Bailey is the best cornerback in football -- a big, fast player who has rare cover ability and instincts and also is a sure tackler. Even Colts quarterback Peyton Manning believes Bailey is the NFL's best corner. "A phenomenal athlete," Manning says. "Unbelievable cover skills."

When Manning's Colts played the Broncos in the regular season and playoffs last year, Indianapolis purposely tried to throw away from Bailey. Other teams challenged Bailey because they didn't want to take their top receiver out of the game.

In analyzing Bailey, I will concede last season was not his best. Even Bailey says he thought he played better in 2000, when he was with Washington and played with certain Hall of Famers Deion Sanders and Darrell Green.

"My second year when I had the greats with me, Deion and Darrell, I think I was more consistent," he says. "You have those guys around you, you step your game up a lot more."

Last season, opponents threw 83 passes Bailey's way and completed 49 of them, 59.0 percent, according to STATS Inc. Those aren't Canton numbers, but they are more impressive when considering Bailey often was guarding the best player on the field and playing an inordinate amount of man-to-man coverage.

Broncos defensive coordinator Larry Coyer estimates the team played man coverage 45 percent of the time last season. Because opponents were able to pick on the corner opposite Bailey so frequently, it's safe to assume the Broncos will be playing more zone defenses this season.

According to Coyer, the Broncos chose to have Bailey lock on to the opponent's best receiver in 11 out of 17 games last year, meaning Bailey followed that player all over the field in man-to-man coverage (see chart).

Bailey's man-to-man record
Date Receiver Opponent Catches-yards vs. Bailey WR's season average
9-19 Jimmy Smith Jaguars 3-69 4.6-73.2
10-17 Jerry Porter Raiders 3-21 4.0-62.4
10-25 Chad Johnson Bengals 7-149 5.9-79.6
10-31 Peerless Price Falcons 2-59 2.8-35.9
11-21 Joe Horn Saints 5-81 5.9-87.4
11-28 Jerry Porter Raiders 6-135 4.0-62.4
12-5 Eric Parker Chargers 3-37 2.9-43.1
12-12 Chris Chambers Dolphins 5-47 4.3-56.1
12-25 Drew Bennett Titans 2-26 5.0-77.9
1-2 Marvin Harrison Colts 5-33 5.4-69.6
1-9 Marvin Harrison Colts 4-51 5.4-69.6


In eight of those 11 games, Bailey held the receiver he covered to fewer yards than the player's season average. Only Chad Johnson, Peerless Price and Jerry Porter (in one of his two games against the Broncos) exceeded their season averages against Bailey.

Negative perceptions about Bailey can be traced to two high-profile games -- a Monday night loss to the Bengals and a home loss to the Raiders. Against the Bengals, on third-and-16, Bailey slipped and fell, leaving Johnson all alone for a 50-yard touchdown.

Porter scored twice with Bailey covering him in their second matchup. On the first touchdown, a 42-yard play, Bailey missed his assignment. The defense called for Bailey to cover a deep zone, but Bailey played it too much like man-to-man and bit on a double move by Porter.

On Porter's second touchdown, a 14-yarder, he ran a hard slant and Bailey gave him too much space. Still, the play would not have been a touchdown if safety Kenoy Kennedy had stayed back as the defense called for him to do.

Critics used those three plays to define Bailey's season, even though he was on the field for about 1,000 snaps.

No one points out, for instance, that Bailey was in on 84 tackles, which was fourth highest on the team. Or that he missed only two tackles all season. Two!

"A guy like Champ could take the approach, 'Hey, I cover guys,'" Broncos safety John Lynch says. "But he tackles, and he doesn't miss tackles, and when he gets a chance, he'll go for a big one. He's unbelievably complete."

Because of Bailey's completeness, Coyer believes he is the finest corner in the NFL. "We review the season, and in our opinion he was the best player we had," Coyer says.

The Broncos never were happier to have Bailey than they were the day the Raiders traded for receiver Randy Moss. It's doubtful Coyer will have Bailey lock on to Moss when the teams play November 13 and December 24 because Moss is too much for any corner to cover one-on-one. There is no player who is as dynamic a corner as Moss is a receiver, in part because the rules favor offensive players. But Bailey is as valuable as a corner can be.

"I've been around the league for a number of years, and you don't get any better than Champ," Denver coach Mike Shanahan says. "I've never been around a guy with that type of speed and anticipation and a guy who has that who isn't afraid to support the run and is a sure tackler. He's everything you look for in a DB." --D.P. Senior writer Dan Pompei covers the NFL for Sporting News. E-mail him at pompei@sportingnews.com.

[Bronx33]

He needs to shut down those guys this year no doubt to silence the critics...

[DivineLegion]

We need to shut down the cOlTs to silence the critics...

[Odysseus]

Champ for Portis was a great move.

Great read. Thanks.

[Bronx33]

We need to shut down the cOlTs to silence the critics...


A bit off the subject at hand but i agree on that topic as well....

[Ballhawk]

If all was equal Champ would have had even better numbers, but as stated the rules favor the WR. In the Monday night game after giving up a 50 yarder to Chad, he came back within the next 2 plays and picked off a pass...no points allowed. It was a great play and showed how he can forget the bad and make good things happen. They also left out the 1st game where he completly shut down Tony G.

Hopefully we can get a pass rush to shave a sec off the time he has to cover these guys.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Bailey's man-to-man record
10-31 Peerless Price Falcons 2-59 2.8-35.9

Herndon was on Peerless

[Bronx33]

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8741784

[Crow]

You could sub Bailey's name for a half dozen other corners in this article. Color me unimpressed.

[Bronx33]

You could sub Bailey's name for a half dozen other corners in this article. Color me unimpressed.


If it's a bronco ,you never are impressed....where ya been dude?

[Crow]

If it's a bronco ,you never are impressed....where ya been dude?

Here and there. I see you guys have been getting some public booty kissing around here. Congrats on that. TJ has a helluva site built up, doesn't he?

As for the Bronco thing...bah. Al Wilson is a black Jesus in my book. DJ's potential scares the hell out of me. Watts is going to be a good one, I think.

Bailey...definitely one of the best. But he's not as great as he's made out to be, IMO. Not signifigantly better than a handfull of other guys who don't get the pub he does...one guy inparticular. ;)

[TheReverend]

Here and there. I see you guys have been getting some public booty kissing around here. Congrats on that. TJ has a helluva site built up, doesn't he?

As for the Bronco thing...bah. Al Wilson is a black Jesus in my book. DJ's potential scares the hell out of me. Watts is going to be a good one, I think.

Bailey...definitely one of the best. But he's not as great as he's made out to be, IMO. Not signifigantly better than a handfull of other guys who don't get the pub he does...one guy inparticular. ;)

Wait till you get to see him with a pass rush this year...

[DiehardRaider]

Chump Bailey sucks. He's the most overrated player in the NFL. Remember how Jerry Porter burned Chump multiple times en route to 3 TDs?
http://www.theexecutioner.net/porter12334.gif
Oh yea I also liked this one where Doug Gabriel shoves Bailey in the mouth to get some more yards
http://www.theexecutioner.net/gif22.gif

[TheReverend]

Chump Bailey sucks. He's the most overrated player in the NFL. Remember how Jerry Porter burned Chump multiple times en route to 3 TDs?
http://www.theexecutioner.net/porter12334.gif
Oh yea I also liked this one where Doug Gabriel shoves Bailey in the mouth to get some more yards
http://www.theexecutioner.net/gif22.gif

You couldnt cover a cripple in the snow so shut your mouth.

[DiehardRaider]

Man I thought this line from the article was hilarious:
Against the Bengals, on third-and-16, Bailey slipped and fell, leaving Johnson all alone for a 50-yard touchdown.
You gotta be honest - a top shut-down corner just doesn't make mistakes like that. With the Skins Chump was good but now he's lost a step and is washed up. Chump's gonna get burned a whole lot more next season!

[TheReverend]

Man I thought this line from the article was hilarious:

You gotta be honest - a top shut-down corner just doesn't make mistakes like that. With the Skins Chump was good but now he's lost a step and is washed up. Chump's gonna get burned a whole lot more next season!

Youve never slipped or seen anyone do it on the field? Only happened twice

[DiehardRaider]

OK - if Bailey was a top safety trying to convert to cornerback or if he was inexperienced, I wouldn't be so hard on him. But Bailey is supposed to be in the prime of his career still and people are hailing him as the top shutdown corner in the NFL, and yet he gets burned and gives up big plays. Chump is a hack. He's going to get burned some more next year - and you Donkos will still be kissing up to him. Pathetic.

[Bronx33]

Man I thought this line from the article was hilarious:

You gotta be honest - a top shut-down corner just doesn't make mistakes like that. With the Skins Chump was good but now he's lost a step and is washed up. Chump's gonna get burned a whole lot more next season!


Ok i'll be honest.......that was the dumbest thing i have ever read.

[TheReverend]

Ok i'll be honest.......that was the dumbest thing i have ever read.

I second that... what corner doesnt get burned a couple times a year?

[FADERPROOF]

OK - if Bailey was a top safety trying to convert to cornerback or if he was inexperienced, I wouldn't be so hard on him. But Bailey is supposed to be in the prime of his career still and people are hailing him as the top shutdown corner in the NFL, and yet he gets burned and gives up big plays. Chump is a hack. He's going to get burned some more next year - and you Donkos will still be kissing up to him. Pathetic.

Kind of like David Boston having his way with Charles Woodson?

Every CB gets burned, no CB is going to stop every single play out there.

[DiehardRaider]

Haha - Bronx33, is that the best you can do? Can't you say anything to defend my claims about Chump? All you can do is resort to these petty insults to counter me. Chump is overrated - a top shutdown corner brings it EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Chump got burned multiple times last year and some weeks the receivers he covered had multi-TD games. That's just not characteristic of a top shutdown CB, to have those lapses.

[ludo21]

OK - if Bailey was a top safety trying to convert to cornerback or if he was inexperienced, I wouldn't be so hard on him. But Bailey is supposed to be in the prime of his career still and people are hailing him as the top shutdown corner in the NFL, and yet he gets burned and gives up big plays. Chump is a hack. He's going to get burned some more next year - and you Donkos will still be kissing up to him. Pathetic.


Is that ur case for him??
1 game in the snow where the WR has the advantage, and a play where he should have had safety help (altho he did fall). But on the next series he comes back and picks the ball off.

Againts Porter where all conditions were fair, bailey dominated him the first time, and champ doiminated Andre johnson as well.

Plus Bailey is put on an island more than any DB in the NFL, period.

[DiehardRaider]

Kind of like David Boston having his way with Charles Woodson?

Every CB gets burned, no CB is going to stop every single play out there.

Look at the numbers last year - there were only 2 games where the receiver Woodson was covering gained more than 100 yds. He also never gave up a multiple-TD game. He shut down the likes of Marvin Harrison, Plaxico Burress, and Eric Moulds. Woodson never got burnt for 3 TDs like Chump did last year.

[DiehardRaider]

Is that ur case for him??
1 game in the snow where the WR has the advantage, and a play where he should have had safety help (altho he did fall). But on the next series he comes back and picks the ball off.

Againts Porter where all conditions were fair, bailey dominated him the first time, and champ doiminated Andre johnson as well.

Plus Bailey is put on an island more than any DB in the NFL, period.

Chad Johnson also burned Chump because poor Chump couldn't keep his footing.

Look here - if you're going to call someone the top shutdown corner in the league, it doesn't matter what the conditions are - he's going to have to be on top of his game EVERY SINGLE WEEK! I'm not saying that Chump sucks - he's just not as good as you people are making him out to be.

[elsid13]

Love those rivals fans that state that Champ is overated, but if you ask them would that take him on their team, they would say yes in second. Champ is best CB in the league, he needs to continue to play like he did last year and we should have very good secondary, if he step it up watch out.

[Smilin Assassin]

Silly raider fans.

Everyone in the league KNOWS Bailey is tops among cbs, including the raiders and there fans.

Sad thing is, they'd probably admit it if Champ was still in Washington.

Take a poll of any selected group that knows/watches the NFL (insiders or not). You might not get a 100% consensus that names Bailey #1, but I assure you, C. Woodson's name will not come up.

Silly raider fans.

[Bronx33]

Haha - Bronx33, is that the best you can do? Can't you say anything to defend my claims about Chump? All you can do is resort to these petty insults to counter me. Chump is overrated - a top shutdown corner brings it EVERY SINGLE WEEK. Chump got burned multiple times last year and some weeks the receivers he covered had multi-TD games. That's just not characteristic of a top shutdown CB, to have those lapses.


Claims? is that what that is? and yes that's all they are,so why waste the energy do you think your the first raider to come by the board and run his piehole about this? LOL now run along i think al davis is giving out free slim jims in front of gang central.

[FADERPROOF]

OK - if Bailey was a top safety trying to convert to cornerback or if he was inexperienced, I wouldn't be so hard on him. But Bailey is supposed to be in the prime of his career still and people are hailing him as the top shutdown corner in the NFL, and yet he gets burned and gives up big plays. Chump is a hack. He's going to get burned some more next year - and you Donkos will still be kissing up to him. Pathetic.

I'm glad the players dont see the same in Champ Bailey as you dod, considering they voted him as the best CB in the league.

So who's better to judge, you or the guys playing with and against him?

[tornado927]

Youve never slipped or seen anyone do it on the field? Only happened twice


See, he would have had to STEP on a field to SLIP on a field.....ignore da trolls

[Bronx33]

I'm glad the players dont see the same in Champ Bailey as you dod, considering they voted him as the best CB in the league.

So who's better to judge, you or the guys playing with and against him?


http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8741784

HOUSTON -- There is a perception that Denver Broncos cornerback Champ Bailey had an off year in 2004, that his cover skills aren't as good as advertised.

Once again, perception does not come close to reality.

Champ Bailey says he is more than ready for prime time. (Getty Images)
Champ Bailey says he is more than ready for prime time. (Getty Images)
Bailey, by far the elite corner in the NFL, was the victim of a few big pass plays that stood out in the eyes of fans, media and scouts -- most of those coming on national television.

They remember Bailey getting beaten Cincinnati's Chad Johnson on a Monday night -- twice for big plays, in fact. They remember Bailey getting beaten in the snow on a Sunday night by Oakland Raiders receiver Jerry Porter, who had three touchdown catches that game, although not all against Bailey.

"They always remember one or two plays," Bailey said last week as the Broncos practiced with the Houston Texans, although he sat out the workouts with a sore hamstring. "But the people who really watch the games know what I can do."

What he can do is play man coverage on the opponent's best receiver for much of the game, which is a defensive coordinator's heaven and a skill that is worth millions.

It's catchy now to shoot down any talk of the phrase "shutdown" corner, but Bailey is as close to it as you can get.

"Whoever said he had a down year is way off base," said one Denver defensive player. "He might have been beat a couple of plays here and there, but he's in man coverage more than any player in the league. Let's see what would happen with some of these other corners if they played man all the time."

Aside from our own eyes, here's how we know Bailey is the best corner in the game: The players say so.
Denver Broncos
Out of Nowhere Man
QB Bradlee Van Pelt

When Bradlee Van Pelt was taken in the seventh round of the 2004 draft, he was viewed as a raw quarterback with outstanding athletic ability. But there were questions about his ability to throw. Van Pelt didn't play at all last season, but he's now second on the depth chart behind Jake Plummer. Van Pelt was 10 of 17 for 107 yards against Houston last Saturday and has displayed a nice feel for the offense. He can also run, evidenced by his 40-yarder vs. the Texans.
Five things you should know

"That guy was amazing when I played against him," Tennessee Titans receiver Drew Bennett said. "He had me almost the whole game and I had two catches. Bailey is the best."

Bailey has great size, great speed and he has a knack for playing the position. Yet because of the way he plays it, he leaves himself open to criticism. He was thrown at more than most defensive backs last year, not because he struggled but because he was in man coverage more than the rest.

Aren't quarterbacks wise to go after the single coverage instead of at the zone on the other side of the field? Yet it sets up even the great corners for failure, their flaws there for all to see. The truth is Bailey might not take as much criticism if he played it safe, maybe on a team that plays a lot of zone.

You can forget that.

"No way," Bailey said. "That's not me. I like it the way it is."

Defensive coordinator Larry Coyer is smart enough to know that Bailey's ability to play man coverage allows him to do other things away from his coverage. Coyer said last year Bailey's play made it much easier to call a defense.

Bailey heard the criticism after last season. He didn't believe it, but he listened. When you're you own worst critic, nothing else can come close to bothering you than what you continually tell yourself. After the season, Bailey sat down and did intensive film study of all of his plays, working on ways to get better and figuring out what went wrong on the plays he did get beat on.

"I want to limit them even more," he said. "I know I can, too."

At 27, Bailey is at the prime of his career. He is the best corner in the league and is often compared to Deion Sanders -- the highest praise for any cover corner.

Comparisons, though, aren't good enough for Bailey. He wants to be better than Sanders. And he told him so.

"I want to go above and beyond that," Bailey said. "I talk to Deion all the time. I told him I'm about to pass him right now. Of course, he doesn't think so. But he has all the confidence that I'm the best now. And in the future ... we'll see."

The Broncos need to get a better pass rush to help Bailey this year, and that's a concern. They will be relying on older players to get to the quarterback from the outside, which is why Bailey's skills could get tested even more. The Broncos aren't about to stop him from playing the best receivers in man coverage, so he might have to be even better; getting 37 sacks last year wasn't good enough.

Denver coach Mike Shanahan, who traded Clinton Portis last year to get Bailey from the Washington Redskins, defended Bailey earlier this year when he mentioned the pass rush. Shanahan said no corner could have success without a good pass rush, no matter how good they are.

"Look," Bailey said, "I don't need people defending me. Nor do I need to hear people on the outside telling me what I'm doing wrong. When you're at the top, people always want to bring you down. That's OK, I know where I stand."

Where he stands is above all other corners in the game. That's reality, not perception.

[Cito Pelon]

I'll have to see what Bailey does this year. Last year his value to the team was nowhere near what Portis' value would have been, IMO. I'm happy to have the guy, but nevertheless. Matter of fact, next year in order to sign two #1's Bailey will probably have to restructure. So IMO the jury is still out on how much value Bailey brings to the team.

[DiehardRaider]

That article from CBSSportsline is just another example of guys making excuses for the poor play exhibited by Chump Bailey last season. Chump is inconsistent and can be a liability for your defense, as you guys saw when you played Cinci and the Raiders.

Think of all the things you could have done with the money tied up in Bailey - he's overrated and overpaid! It'll be interesting to see what excuses you guys make up for him after next season.

[Bronx33]

That article from CBSSportsline is just another example of guys making excuses for the poor play exhibited by Chump Bailey last season. Chump is inconsistent and can be a liability for your defense, as you guys saw when you played Cinci and the Raiders.

Think of all the things you could have done with the money tied up in Bailey - he's overrated and overpaid! It'll be interesting to see what excuses you guys make up for him after next season.


Slim jims........

[Raider Bill]

Or that he missed only two tackles all season. Two!



http://www.gamepimps.net/1/animations/jenkinsstiffarm.gif

one

[Raider Bill]

http://www.theexecutioner.net/gif22.gif



That must be the 2 tackles!

[16-JakE-16]

http://www.gamepimps.net/1/animations/jenkinsstiffarm.gif

one



ahhhhh. no. Jenkins is out there, dumbass.

[crazyhorse]

EK was beating him like a drum when they played the Chiefs. Maybe they need to take him out of man coverage. Anywho....

I dont care what they say about Bailey as long as Kennison get's his 2 TDs a game.

You can balee' dat.

[elsid13]

Raider fans giving the Broncos crap for having #6 pass d in the league, while the Raiders were # 29. (total yard allowed). Source: the NFL stat page. Maybe you guys don't know good corner play when you see it.

[WaffleBoy]

Bailey is overrated. I've watched all of the Skins games, and he is not better than Smoot. Granted Bailey may be the better athelete, but he wasn't the best "corner" on the Skins.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[16-JakE-16]

Herndon was on Peerless
yep. I remember seeing price catch 2 td's over herndon in the highlights. price was not enough of a threat to earn Champ's presence. the man is nothing without moulds.

[Ratboy]

Bailey is overrated. I've watched all of the Skins games, and he is not better than Smoot. Granted Bailey may be the better athelete, but he wasn't the best "corner" on the Skins.

The Boy Wonder :super:

:laugh: Good one.

[16-JakE-16]

he is not better than Smoot.




Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!


you're serious? you can't possible be? the same Smoot who by stats was beat more than any starting cb in the league?

[Ratboy]

I thought Waffleboy was serious for a moment.

[16-JakE-16]

they left gonzo and mushin off that list in the first article

[WaffleBoy]

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!


you're serious? you can't possible be? the same Smoot who by stats was beat more than any starting cb in the league?

I don't know where you are getting "your" stats :crazy:, but Smoot was head and shoulders better than Bailey, especially the past 2 seasons.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[DB-Freak]

Bailey is overrated. I've watched all of the Skins games, and he is not better than Smoot. Granted Bailey may be the better athelete, but he wasn't the best "corner" on the Skins.

The Boy Wonder :super:
Maybe the better athlete?

No, he definitely is the better athlete. But Smoot who I love and wanted is more consistent and plays safer than Champ.

I just dont like how Champ plays too aggressively and makes stupid mistakes.

But the thing is waffle, although I'm clearly aware Smoot and Bailey switched up with #1 WRs, Im positive Bailey played against the Number 1 WR considerly more than Smoot in Washington and so did Shawn Springs so Smoot looking more impressive is not out of the question.

[16-JakE-16]

I don't think you're completely knowledgable on how Smoot plays. Ask any Skins fan and they'll tell you that he gets beat for big plays quite often. Which means he isn't very "safe" and especially consistent.

[DiehardRaider]

Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious! Hilarious!


you're serious? you can't possible be? the same Smoot who by stats was beat more than any starting cb in the league?

Since when do stats make a player?! With that argument you can say that Marcus Trufant had a better year last year than Hump Bailey

[Broncoman13]

I said this last year... no corner in the league can match up with the best WR's one on one... mano y mano. Our best bet is to double team Moss with Walls and say DWill, Lynch, or Fergy and let Bailey play their 2nd best WR Porter man to man. I know he beat him last year, but Bailey also shut him down in the first game. As they sit... it's 1-1. Double teaming Moss with Walls and a Nickel back or Safety is the key. Walls did very well against Moss a couple years ago and I'm willing to bet that Bailey will step up to the plate after getting toasted by Porter in their final meeting last year.

Opinions?

[WaffleBoy]

I don't think you're completely knowledgable on how Smoot plays. Ask any Skins fan and they'll tell you that he gets beat for big plays quite often. Which means he isn't very "safe" and especially consistent.

I have several people in my family who are HUGE Redskin fans, and they would tell you they miss Smoot's coverage ability a hell of alot more than Bailey’s.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[DB-Freak]

I don't think you're completely knowledgable on how Smoot plays. Ask any Skins fan and they'll tell you that he gets beat for big plays quite often. Which means he isn't very "safe" and especially consistent.
Umm no.

Ask for a guy from Skin Planet whose userhandle is Art. He is like Mediator, but more obssessive and if you ask how much Smoot got burned he'll say one or twice and lot of the respectable posters in there would agree.

Smoot was a very solid corner. Hard to admit it.

[Jae]

Lenny Walls > Champ Bailey and every other CB in the leaugue

[Broncoman13]

TBW drinks too much!

Smoot or Bailey... I'm willing to bet that if you asked 32 coaches in the NFL which CB they'd rather have you'd have 32 coaches answer Bailey!

[TheReverend]

Ask coaches from the NFL about ANY corner theyd want to build their secondary around and theyll say Champ.

[TheReverend]

I don't know where you are getting "your" stats :crazy:, but Smoot was head and shoulders better than Bailey, especially the past 2 seasons.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Thats like saying Trent Green is better than Peyton Manning

[DB-Freak]

I said this last year... no corner in the league can match up with the best WR's one on one... mano y mano. Our best bet is to double team Moss with Walls and say DWill, Lynch, or Fergy and let Bailey play their 2nd best WR Porter man to man. I know he beat him last year, but Bailey also shut him down in the first game. As they sit... it's 1-1. Double teaming Moss with Walls and a Nickel back or Safety is the key. Walls did very well against Moss a couple years ago and I'm willing to bet that Bailey will step up to the plate after getting toasted by Porter in their final meeting last year.

Opinions?

Woodson shut him down alone.

Have a CB with great speed and ups, Moss can neutralized pretty easily.

[WaffleBoy]

Ask coaches from the NFL about ANY corner theyd want to build their secondary around and theyll say Champ.

And they would probably take Lavar Arrington too. Ha! He's the second most overrated player in Redskins history.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[TheReverend]

And they would probably take Lavar Arrington too. Ha! He's the second most overrated player in Redskins history.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Yet Heath Miller is a god? He couldnt even catch last night.

LaVar IS the best player on the redskins. Bar none. PSU playmaker. Get healthy, Courtney...

[WaffleBoy]

Yet Heath Miller is a god? He couldnt even catch last night.

LaVar IS the best player on the redskins. Bar none. PSU playmaker. Get healthy, Courtney...

??? You lost me? I haven't said anything about Heath Miller. I hope he does well, but the jury is still out.

The Boy Wonder :super:

[Raider Bill]

Maybe you guys don't know good corner play when you see it.

Explaining all those Hall of Fame Bronco cornerbacks!

Pile High is where CB skill goes to die.

[Cito Pelon]

One thing about the Bronco secondary in general, they had some coaching problems last year. Tough to overcome that.

[Bronx33]

Lenny Walls > Champ Bailey and every other CB in the leaugue


How many beers jae?

[rbackfactory80]

I don't know where you are getting "your" stats :crazy:, but Smoot was head and shoulders better than Bailey, especially the past 2 seasons.

The Boy Wonder :super:

This is the sadest **** I have ever read on this site. If you believe that then you can't understand anything about the game. It is one thing to hate on somebody you don't like but to say smoot is a better corner. Yeah I am sure and he is also asked to do all that bailey is too?

[rbackfactory80]

Thats like saying Trent Green is better than Peyton Manning

The sad thing is chief homers really believe that.

[WaffleBoy]

Thats like saying Trent Green is better than Peyton Manning

No, that's like saying Peyton Manning is better than Tom Brady. ROFL! rofl LOL Hilarious!

The Boy Wonder :super:

[24champ]

Of course all the redskin fans want to say that Smoot was better, didnt Champ want out of that craphole because he was sick of losing? That still must leave a bitter taste and the fact that they traded champ and we got the second round pick to go with it. Lets not forget that the redskins were also generous to give us a first round (lotto) pick for next year. Of course they are going to say Smoot is better, they do not want to look like idiots and say we traded away the best corner in the game and a second pick for a primadonna named Portis. People that say Champ sucks are only just jealous of him and his abilities to make the opponents recievers play like crap. Now the raidtards say they beat Champ bailey...ok now what happened in the first game? they dont mention the first game we played the raiders.....how many touchdowns did Porter score? Curry? Gabriel? zilch and you dont hear a peep from raider fans nor do they acknowledge that game. Far as raider fans are concerned the snow game was the only one that counts. Remind me again whose on the raiders defense??? Do they even have one?

[Jae]

How many beers jae?


Only 6........... :griese:

[Florida_Bronco]

Look at the numbers last year - there were only 2 games where the receiver Woodson was covering gained more than 100 yds.

If you look at the stats originally posted, that is true of Champ as well

He also never gave up a multiple-TD game.

I'd like to see proof of that, but for now I'll take your word for it.

He shut down the likes of Marvin Harrison, Plaxico Burress, and Eric Moulds.

I don't remember Marvin doing much against us in the playoffs with Bailey covering him.

Woodson never got burnt for 3 TDs like Chump did last year.

And Porter didn't do **** against Champ in decent weather, so what's your point? Champ definetly didn't play as well that night, but even you must admit the weather was playing a factor. You remember that we were throwing the ball around pretty well in that game too.

Also, you should remember that Bailey was in a whole new system last year, where as Woodson has been in the Raider's system for how many years now? 6? I'm sure that would account for a few of Bailey's mental mistakes last year.

Bottom line - He made mistakes last year, but he was new here and there is still NO ONE who plays corner better than him.

[watermock]

Smoot is a very good corner, but isn't as fast, is much smaller, and isn't nearly the run stopper or tackler Champ is. He's an excelent cover corner, and very instinctive but Champ has no weakness. Smoot is also likes to run his piehole alot.

Waffle never fails to amaze me.

[Raider Bill]

To be fair, I've hung around at KFFL for a couple of years and Skins fans complained that Bailey gave up too many big plays while he was still there.

[Raider Bill]

Looking at New England and Philadelphia, it seems like you get more bang for you're buck at the Safety position, especially with the amount of zone that teams play these days.

[OrangeShadow]

Chad Johnson also burned Chump because poor Chump couldn't keep his footing.

Look here - if you're going to call someone the top shutdown corner in the league, it doesn't matter what the conditions are - he's going to have to be on top of his game EVERY SINGLE WEEK! I'm not saying that Chump sucks - he's just not as good as you people are making him out to be.

No one is on top of their game "EVERY SINGLE WEEK" not even your savior randy moss.

[Florida_Bronco]

No one is on top of their game "EVERY SINGLE WEEK" not even your savior randy moss.

Randy is not even in the game every single week, much less on top of it.

[Bronx33]

The standards change when they are broncos guys........

[ScotchTanShan]

The sad thing is chief homers really believe that. (re: Green v Manning)


I'd highly doubt it since most chiefs fans know their offense and how Peyton still rocked out when he came to Arrowhead. Happily, denver fans are MORE than aware of Indy's ability to dress you up in a clown suit and parade you down the street, filming it all.
The bigger homer's are the Plummer fans that fail to realize he will always force plays. The good plays he does make will be offset by his mistakes, i.e. lefthanded chucks to opposing teams LB's.


I'll second the Kennison mention... didn't seem to stop him from getting his or Gonzo.

Bailey for Portis was a piss-poor move and a result by a coach that can not draft a cb to save his life and desperate for one. why else would 1/3 of your team now consist of CBs and 1/3 of the team RBs

[Kaylore]

Bailey for Portis was a piss-poor move and a result by a coach that can not draft a cb to save his life and desperate for one. why else would 1/3 of your team now consist of CBs and 1/3 of the team RBs
http://sghs.lausd.k12.ca.us/departments/Math/wrong.gif

[Hogan11]

Champ Bailey doesn't make mistakes....those blown coverages were Kennedy's fault for not providing safety help....just ask anyone ::)

Just like this year, if he (or Lynch) blows an assingment, it'll be Fergy's fault.....because...well......he didn't provide safety help.

Both these guys are very good players, but they're not the be all to end all some here think they are......they do make mistakes and they are faulable, whether some want to admit it or not.

[Bronco LB 59]

??? You lost me? I haven't said anything about Heath Miller. I hope he does well, but the jury is still out.

The Boy Wonder :super:

Then what's with the "AFC Rookie of the Year" caption above his picture? Jury is still out my ass!

[Pat Bowlen]

Some of the posts by Bronco fans in this thread make me want to hide my face. 98% of the other posts in this thread make me want to blow it off.

To many goddamned morons in here.

[Atlas]

Man I thought this line from the article was hilarious:

You gotta be honest - a top shut-down corner just doesn't make mistakes like that. !
Troll alert. Hey Troll, I see you have no football sense what-so-ever. Your saying top notch CBs NEVER slip and fall?? Your a moron and a troll.

[Raider Bill]

http://img96.exs.cx/img96/9779/chumpbailey1.gif

[Raider Bill]

He must have tripped over that yellow first down stripe

[24champ]

I'd highly doubt it since most chiefs fans know their offense and how Peyton still rocked out when he came to Arrowhead. Happily, denver fans are MORE than aware of Indy's ability to dress you up in a clown suit and parade you down the street, filming it all.
The bigger homer's are the Plummer fans that fail to realize he will always force plays. The good plays he does make will be offset by his mistakes, i.e. lefthanded chucks to opposing teams LB's.


I'll second the Kennison mention... didn't seem to stop him from getting his or Gonzo.

Bailey for Portis was a piss-poor move and a result by a coach that can not draft a cb to save his life and desperate for one. why else would 1/3 of your team now consist of CBs and 1/3 of the team RBs

Wow speaking of piss poor what was your record last year? Hiring gunther was a piss poor move. If I also recollect that the colts ended your dream season too a couple seasons ago ON YOUR TURF we played on theirs for two straight seasons and I know the results would be different if Peyton Manning had to play at mile high. Besides rules today are made for the colts with the patriot act being the 5 yard no contact rule which is BS.

[fontaine]

All I have to say is that we better get some pass rush this year otherwise even Jesus would get burned occasionally if we had him at CB.

I'm tired of watching fake a$$ CBs from other teams get hyped up while their front four are wiping the QB's snot and blood off their cleats.

No DLine = No playoffs.

[crazyhorse]

All I have to say is that we better get some pass rush this year otherwise even Jesus would get burned occasionally if we had him at CB.

I'm tired of watching fake a$$ CBs from other teams get hyped up while their front four are wiping the QB's snot and blood off their cleats.

No DLine = No playoffs.

This post is confirmed by 4 out of 5 defensive coaches in Cleveland.

[fontaine]

This post is confirmed by 4 out of 5 defensive coaches in Cleveland.

I can see why you chose to say Cleveland rather than Kansas City because there was no helping the crippled, drunken, busted secondary in KC last year, pass rush or no pass rush.

[ozomulsion]

Woodson shut him down alone.

Have a CB with great speed and ups, Moss can neutralized pretty easily.

Easily? Not so fast my friend. If i remember correctly, Moss was playing on a hobbled leg that day That is all

[Bronco_Beerslug]

He must have tripped over that yellow first down stripe
Johnson owned him on that play and if you watch it closely Johnson actually pushed Bailey away from him on his break which made him lose his balance.

CBs are not as valuable to teams now with the enforcement of "can't touch the WRs after 5" now. No way any CB is going to hang with good WRs if they can't touch them (not consistently anyway).

[DB-Freak]

Easily? Not so fast my friend. If i remember correctly, Moss was playing on a hobbled leg that day That is all

I don't remember anything like that.

But it wasnt the first time Moss was neutralized.

The guy is not uncoverable.

[Odysseus]

All I have to say is that we better get some pass rush this year otherwise even Jesus would get burned occasionally if we had him at CB.

I'm tired of watching fake a$$ CBs from other teams get hyped up while their front four are wiping the QB's snot and blood off their cleats.

No DLine = No playoffs.

I feel like I am running for political office. A chicken in every pot. a pass rushing defense. Our rookie CB are going to do well. *Sigh*

Our biggest concern is turnovers. You can't have an offense that turns over the ball, a special teams that cannot get you the ball and a defense whose can't fall on the ball once in awhile and say having a number 4 or 5 anything really matters.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I don't remember anything like that.

But it wasnt the first time Moss was neutralized.

The guy is not uncoverable.
If he isn't he's the next thing to it! With his height, speed and moves no one can cover him one on one.

[ScotchTanShan]

Wow speaking of piss poor what was your record last year?


Off topic. This does nothing to disprove the fact that chump got burned.


Hiring gunther was a piss poor move. If I also recollect that the colts ended your dream season too a couple seasons ago ON YOUR TURF we played on theirs for two straight seasons and I know the results would be different if Peyton Manning had to play at mile high.

Why are you rementioning what I already said. Our close loss versus your blowouts does not indictate anywhere that Denver would "take it to them" in Pile Hi


Besides rules today are made for the colts with the patriot act being the 5 yard no contact rule which is BS.


So, are you saying that trading for a player that can no longer make an impact as much as one of the top 5 RB's in the league is a pretty stupid call? The truth is that your running game wasn't as potent without him and your secondary did not see a proportionate gain to offset the loss.

[Florida_Bronco]

Hahahahahahaha DieHardRaider gave me negative rep for my post where I picked him apart....that's the first negative rep I have ever gotten here. LOL

He didn't even have the nerve to respond here and prove me wrong, talk about a troll.

[Kaylore]

Hahahahahahaha DieHardRaider gave me negative rep for my post where I picked him apart....that's the first negative rep I have ever gotten here. LOL

He didn't even have the nerve to respond here and prove me wrong, talk about a troll.
He neg repped me too, but his rep is blue so I guess it means nothing.



The Raiders Suck!

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Hahahahahahaha DieHardRaider gave me negative rep for my post where I picked him apart....that's the first negative rep I have ever gotten here. LOL

He didn't even have the nerve to respond here and prove me wrong, talk about a troll.
I think when a negative, gives you a negative, that's a positive! !Booya!

[WaffleBoy]

Then what's with the "AFC Rookie of the Year" caption above his picture? Jury is still out my ass!

Let’s just say I’m optimistic about the future.;D

The Boy Wonder :super:

[Bronx33]

He neg repped me too, but his rep is blue so I guess it means nothing.



Yep the little twit neg rep me too...... but it was blue as well.

[24champ]

Off topic. This does nothing to disprove the fact that chump got burned.



Why are you rementioning what I already said. Our close loss versus your blowouts does not indictate anywhere that Denver would "take it to them" in Pile Hi



So, are you saying that trading for a player that can no longer make an impact as much as one of the top 5 RB's in the league is a pretty stupid call? The truth is that your running game wasn't as potent without him and your secondary did not see a proportionate gain to offset the loss.

All I gotta say is your team sat home on the couch when playoffs came around with a lousy record when they were pre-season favorites to win the whole shebang thanks to the hype ESPN gave the chevies. Futhermore you are naive to think we got the crappy end of the trade. We got rid of a primadonna who was going to "TERREL OWENS" the broncos and cry about how he couldnt feed his family with the salary he has and was going to be a distraction. You also fail to mention that portis didnt run as well as a redskin so I credit our O line for his stats as a bronco. Truth is that he needed us more than we needed him and we got one of the best corners in today's game and Tatum Bell. Hope the chevies have fun in jail since thats where half the squad is tonight :strong:

[Raider Bill]

Johnson owned him on that play and if you watch it closely Johnson actually pushed Bailey away from him on his break which made him lose his balance.

He barely touched him... It looked like he took a dive to try and draw a penalty once Johnson got a step on him....


CBs are not as valuable to teams now with the enforcement of "can't touch the WRs after 5" now. No way any CB is going to hang with good WRs if they can't touch them (not consistently anyway)


I agree, Safties are far more important these days with the amount of zone teams are forced to play. Look no further than last years super bowl featuring the 2 best safety tandems in the game and dude's named Gay and WR's playing corner.

[DBroncos4life]

yeah he (DieHardRaider) repped me as well and I didn't even post in this thread. By reading some of the posts I have to wonder how some of the trolls even have positive rep.

[Raider Bill]

If you guys started bitching about linebacker play, Id swear I was at a Raiders message board.

[Atlas]

All I have to say is that we better get some pass rush this year otherwise even Jesus would get burned occasionally if we had him at CB.

I'm tired of watching fake a$$ CBs from other teams get hyped up while their front four are wiping the QB's snot and blood off their cleats.

No DLine = No playoffs.

I think if you caught Shanny/Coyer in an honest moment they would admit that they didn't use Bailey wisley last year. It was too easy for teams to set their gameplan up to attack Bailey in certain instances. This year will be a different story with Bailey moving around more AND YES the pass rush will be much better.

[Cleo McDowell]

He must have tripped over that yellow first down stripe

LOL looks like he sure did! really though, i would want nobody else but champ on my depth chart at cb.

[Kaylore]

CBs are not as valuable to teams now with the enforcement of "can't touch the WRs after 5" now. No way any CB is going to hang with good WRs if they can't touch them (not consistently anyway).
I'm sorry, I hear this a lot and its completely wrong. Its the complete opposite of the truth. Do people actually believe that teams are going to say "well corner's are worthless now!" Its simple economics. In truth a shutdown corner is even MORE valued because the best ones' job just got harder and therefore a players' ability to perform that job will now come at a premium. Receivers will be undervalued because the rules are now in their favor, and therefore even a sub-par receiver (Eddie Quittertrash) can put up 1000 yard numbers.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the average salary jump for Corners in the NFL this year. They are getting more expensive than many Quarterbacks. Still don't believe me? Watch some corners play man coverage and see how many are able to hold their receivers to minimal catches.

Whatever you all want to say about Bailey being good or bad, this much is certain - a solid cornerback is coveted more than ever now. If all we need is "good safeties" as NJBill suggests, then we should only see zone coverage this year and people that dare to run man will get smoked ALL year long. Fortunately we have the chance to watch the games and see what really happens. :giggle:

[DBroncos4life]

If you guys started b****ing about linebacker play, Id swear I was at a Raiders message board.



See we don't have crappy LBs so you will be waiting a long time to here that on this board. :strong:

[24champ]

I'm sorry, I hear this a lot and its completely wrong. Its the complete opposite of the truth. Do people actually believe that teams are going to say "well corner's are worthless now!" Its simple economics. In truth a shutdown corner is even MORE valued because the best ones' job just got harder and therefore a players' ability to perform that job will now come at a premium. Receivers will be undervalued because the rules are now in their favor, and therefore even a sub-par receiver (Eddie Quittertrash) can put up 1000 yard numbers.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the average salary jump for Corners in the NFL this year. They are getting more expensive than many Quarterbacks. Still don't believe me? Watch some corners play man coverage and see how many are able to hold their receivers to minimal catches.

Whatever you all want to say about Bailey being good or bad, this much is certain - a solid cornerback is coveted more than ever now. If all we need is "good safeties" as NJBill suggests, then we should only see zone coverage this year and people that dare to run man will get smoked ALL year long. Fortunately we have the chance to watch the games and see what really happens. :giggle:


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Kaylore again.

[Atlas]

See we don't have crappy LBs so you will be waiting a long time to here that on this board. :strong:

The Broncos should rush for over 200 yards against that defense.

[Odysseus]

If you guys started b****ing about linebacker play, Id swear I
was at a Raiders message board.

---pre season LB rant begin---

I've been high on Wilson since he first came to Denver and think he's the heart and the soul of our defense. I also think if he doesn't get his head out of his pitoot that the Broncos are going to get burned on some key plays for lack of motivation. The fans have greased him with so much adoration that saying anything bad about him isn't popular.

HE NEEDS TO STEP UP!

---pre season LB rant end---

[Odysseus]

Whatever you all want to say about Bailey being good or bad, this much is certain - a solid cornerback is coveted more than ever now. If all we need is "good safeties" as NJBill suggests, then we should only see zone coverage this year and people that dare to run man will get smoked ALL year long. Fortunately we have the chance to watch the games and see what really happens. :giggle:

Your explaination, while plausible, doesn't explain the vast sea of extremely bad cornerbacks out there. Do you mean they are not intentionally bringing in players that with my inexperienced eye can deem as worthless and be correct most of the time? :poke:

Champ is better than a lot people generally give him credit but he's got big pride about it. When I saw him posing in his Broncos stuff ala Elway revisited. I laughed out loud and pointed. The arrogance was rewarded and he was posterized. My hope is that he is focused on being in NFL highlights instead of having fans defending why he really doesn't suck all year.

[watermock]

When I saw him posing in his Broncos stuff ala Elway revisited. I laughed out loud and pointed. The arrogance was rewarded and he was posterized. My hope is that he is focused on being in NFL highlights instead of having fans defending why he really doesn't suck all year.

How amusing and self important.

[crazyhorse]

---pre season LB rant begin---

I've been high on Wilson since he first came to Denver and think he's the heart and the soul of our defense. I also think if he doesn't get his head out of his pitoot that the Broncos are going to get burned on some key plays for lack of motivation. The fans have greased him with so much adoration that saying anything bad about him isn't popular.

HE NEEDS TO STEP UP!

---pre season LB rant end---

Sometimes I think fans have a tendency to expect a good player never to miss a beat. The fact is, that most players have a down year. I agree that Wilson didn't have the year I expected him to have last year. Especially in the beginning of the season. I doubt it continues.

Besides, Lynch had a few big hit's last season. You signed Bailey. There are other players for the media to talk about. So there isn't the same amount of attention given to Wilson.

[Raider Bill]

I'm sorry, I hear this a lot and its completely wrong. Its the complete opposite of the truth. Do people actually believe that teams are going to say "well corner's are worthless now!" Its simple economics. In truth a shutdown corner is even MORE valued because the best ones' job just got harder and therefore a players' ability to perform that job will now come at a premium. Receivers will be undervalued because the rules are now in their favor, and therefore even a sub-par receiver (Eddie Quittertrash) can put up 1000 yard numbers.

Don't believe me? Take a look at the average salary jump for Corners in the NFL this year. They are getting more expensive than many Quarterbacks. Still don't believe me? Watch some corners play man coverage and see how many are able to hold their receivers to minimal catches.

Whatever you all want to say about Bailey being good or bad, this much is certain - a solid cornerback is coveted more than ever now. If all we need is "good safeties" as NJBill suggests, then we should only see zone coverage this year and people that dare to run man will get smoked ALL year long. Fortunately we have the chance to watch the games and see what really happens. :giggle:


Look at the Super Bowl

The best 2 safety tandems in the league.

Dudes named Gay and Wide recievers playing corner.

Philly dumped Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent and plugged Sheppard and Brown right in with no dropoff

[Florida_Bronco]

I've dished out postive rep in return for those who gave it to me to offset the LoserRaider's negative rep. Thought you guys would like to see the comment he made.

"stop spouting off all that BS - Hump Bailey sucks like hell"

LOL real intelligent huh?

[Kaylore]

Look at the Super Bowl

The best 2 safety tandems in the league.

Dudes named Gay and Wide recievers playing corner.

Philly dumped Bobby Taylor and Troy Vincent and plugged Sheppard and Brown right in with no dropoff
So what does that prove? I never said that safeties suck or are worthless. I said that corners aren't. The Pats played quite a bit of man coverage and so did the Ravens.

[Raider Bill]

Pittsburgh 16 15.7 26 8 14 0 1 3 0 0 0 24 23 0 1
New England 16 16.2 31 9 18 1 1 1 1 0 0 23 15 0 3
Philadelphia 16 16.2 30 13 16 0 0 1 0 0 0 27 17 0 1
New York (A) 16 16.3 30 8 21 0 1 0 0 0 0 29 16 1 1
Washington 16 16.6 30 7 17 1 1 1 3 0 0 28 17 1 2
Baltimore 16 16.8 27 9 14 0 2 0 2 0 0 24 26 1 1
Jacksonville 16 17.5 31 7 18 2 0 1 3 0 0 27 21 0 2
Buffalo 16 17.8 29 6 20 0 0 1 2 0 0 27 27 0 1
Denver 16 19.0 35 16 17 0 1 1 0 0 0 31 21 0 0
Tampa Bay


There's the top 10 scoring defenses... how many "elite" cornerbacks are represented, 2?

[Florida_Bronco]

Pittsburgh 16 15.7 26 8 14 0 1 3 0 0 0 24 23 0 1
New England 16 16.2 31 9 18 1 1 1 1 0 0 23 15 0 3
Philadelphia 16 16.2 30 13 16 0 0 1 0 0 0 27 17 0 1
New York (A) 16 16.3 30 8 21 0 1 0 0 0 0 29 16 1 1
Washington 16 16.6 30 7 17 1 1 1 3 0 0 28 17 1 2
Baltimore 16 16.8 27 9 14 0 2 0 2 0 0 24 26 1 1
Jacksonville 16 17.5 31 7 18 2 0 1 3 0 0 27 21 0 2
Buffalo 16 17.8 29 6 20 0 0 1 2 0 0 27 27 0 1
Denver 16 19.0 35 16 17 0 1 1 0 0 0 31 21 0 0
Tampa Bay


There's the top 10 scoring defenses... how many "elite" cornerbacks are represented, 2?

Where is Oakland? Oh sorry you said top 10 defenses.

[bpc]

Chump Bailey sucks. He's the most overrated player in the NFL. Remember how Jerry Porter burned Chump multiple times en route to 3 TDs?
http://www.theexecutioner.net/porter12334.gif
Oh yea I also liked this one where Doug Gabriel shoves Bailey in the mouth to get some more yards
http://www.theexecutioner.net/gif22.gif

I don't put too much stock in how any coverage fairs in inclement weather. I will say that Bailey dominated the sorry Raiders in Oakland in which the Fai-ers couldn't even generate a td in a pathetic sorry performance.

No snow storms to bail you out this year most likely.

[Kaylore]

Pittsburgh 16 15.7 26 8 14 0 1 3 0 0 0 24 23 0 1
New England 16 16.2 31 9 18 1 1 1 1 0 0 23 15 0 3
Philadelphia 16 16.2 30 13 16 0 0 1 0 0 0 27 17 0 1
New York (A) 16 16.3 30 8 21 0 1 0 0 0 0 29 16 1 1
Washington 16 16.6 30 7 17 1 1 1 3 0 0 28 17 1 2
Baltimore 16 16.8 27 9 14 0 2 0 2 0 0 24 26 1 1
Jacksonville 16 17.5 31 7 18 2 0 1 3 0 0 27 21 0 2
Buffalo 16 17.8 29 6 20 0 0 1 2 0 0 27 27 0 1
Denver 16 19.0 35 16 17 0 1 1 0 0 0 31 21 0 0
Tampa Bay


There's the top 10 scoring defenses... how many "elite" cornerbacks are represented, 2?

Chad scott was good enough to be wanted by New England, so he probably doesn't suck. Nate Clements led his team with six interceptions, that's pretty good if you ask anyone. Fred Smoot played very well last season and Shawn Springs was exceptional for a rookie. Chris McAlister isn't a scrub and the Defensively dominat Ravens didn't seem to think it was a waste to sign Somari Rolle this offseason. Lito Sheppard went to the pro-bowl and Rod Hood, the eagles nickle back, covered Moss in the playoffs.

Do those teams have good safeties too? Yes. But they have solid corners that play good football. Dallas has Roy Williams but that didn't seem to help them much because their corners sucked last season aqdn they are at the bottom of scoring and overall defense. Mike Brown isn't a scrub but the guys at corner in Chicago are. Darren Sharper is a good player too and how did the Vikings do in pass defense? Bad enough to sign Smoot who I guess, by your logic, didn't help the Redskins at all last season.

You still haven't responded to my point that the franchise tag for corners is higher than a quarterback's this year. That means more than one team is paying top price for good corners, and many of them are teams that are in contention. They are still drafting corners out of the first round and paying big money for them in free agency. Does a team need good safeties too? Yes. But no one is surrendering the corner possition as a lost cause.

[Raider Bill]

You still haven't responded to my point that the franchise tag for corners is higher than a quarterback's this year

That's just to the way the math works in the CBA and the frontloaded deal Winfield got that skewed the average salary of the top 5 guys.