OT - Handgun advice

[scorpio]

Calling all pistol enthusiasts:

I'm considering purchasing a handgun for backpacking (ideally lightweight), also to be used for home defense. I want something that will stop a bear, if need be. I've been looking at the Glock 30 (http://www.glock.com/g30.htm) (.45 auto), but I've never shot a Glock and I know some people have concerns about their safety mechanism. I've never bought a pistol before and all of my experience comes from guns that belonged to friends and family, so I have lots of newb questions. Am I better off with an automatic or a revolver? Single or double action? Do you find that modern designs handle better than say a 1911? Do modern pistols require more maintenance? etc....

Anyway, lots of dumb questions I know, but any advice would be appreciated.

[Hogan11]

Paging Alec Raenos......paging Mr. Alec Raenos.

[watermock]

I have heard that Glocks have a hair trigger, maybe I'm wrong. If your worried about Smokey the Bear, you definitely need a large caliber/magnum tho, and probably keep on the move. They tend to get kinda pissed if all you can do is poke a .22 in a shoulder. .45's have alot of kick tho, it might shoot high if your not holding with both hands. I would get a semi-automatic if your worried about bears. I know that bears have really multiplied while their habitat has shrunk. Don't ever put your garbage near your tent. If you see Cubs, like Slappy, DO NOT approach them, Momma Bear is sure to be nearby. I don't know where you plan on hiking, but if some bear attacks you and your fortunate enough to drop it before it rips your scalp off, some Ranger will probably drag your ass off to jail anyway.

I would agree Alec is probably the right maniac to give you advice. I certainly wouldn't want a gun with a tricky safety. I think Glocks pulled are pretty much made for warfare. Honestly, I don't know all that much, I have a Winchester Model 12 which is basically a collectable. (1912 design, pump 12 gauge). Put some slugs in that puppy and it will drop an elephant.

[Raiders Rock]

http://www.davesguns.com/serverpics/FirearmsPage/Glock--30-01.jpg

[watermock]

Notice the DANGER warning about the trigger in that picture.

[Spider]

Calling all pistol enthusiasts:

I'm considering purchasing a handgun for backpacking (ideally lightweight), also to be used for home defense. I want something that will stop a bear, if need be. I've been looking at the Glock 30 (http://www.glock.com/g30.htm) (.45 auto), but I've never shot a Glock and I know some people have concerns about their safety mechanism. I've never bought a pistol before and all of my experience comes from guns that belonged to friends and family, so I have lots of newb questions. Am I better off with an automatic or a revolver? Single or double action? Do you find that modern designs handle better than say a 1911? Do modern pistols require more maintenance? etc....

Anyway, lots of dumb questions I know, but any advice would be appreciated.
Depending on the size and breed of the bear , most bears you shoot with anything Smaller then a 30.06 you just piss him off ........
I dont know where you are going backpacking , but here in Wyoming , the bears havent got that bad yet , though it is still wise to run a tight camp , no need to take chances ....... as for the rest of your question , I like the .357 mag 280 grain man stoppers , revolver 6 shot , but then if you cant hit somthing wit h6 shots you dont need a gun , you need a shot gun @ close range ;D

[Spider]

The best weapon I found is a hot shot ( cattle Prod for the city boys ) you zap someone wit hthat and hold it there pumping juice ...... I would imagine it would work on a bear , just about anything you come acrossed well except for a moose ;D

[Hogan11]

Depending on the size and breed of the bear , most bears you shoot with anything Smaller then a 30.06 you just piss him off ........

Is that true? They'll laugh @ a couple of .12 hollowpoint slugs??

[watermock]

12 GAUGE slugs out of a shotgun dummy. They are as big around as a nickle and have a full shotgun cartridge pushing them. But it's only effective at relatively close range, 50 yards and in, and it's also cumbersome.

[scorpio]

Depending on the size and breed of the bear , most bears you shoot with anything Smaller then a 30.06 you just piss him off ........
I dont know where you are going backpacking , but here in Wyoming , the bears havent got that bad yet , though it is still wise to run a tight camp , no need to take chances ....... as for the rest of your question , I like the .357 mag 280 grain man stoppers , revolver 6 shot , but then if you cant hit somthing wit h6 shots you dont need a gun , you need a shot gun @ close range ;D

I do most of my hiking in Colorado's Front Range and San Juan mountains, but I make sure to make at least one extended trip to the Wyoming Bighorns every summer (grew up in Buffalo). I know bears aren't a big concern in Wyoming, but there have been a couple recent bear attacks in Colorado. Anyway, I'm not necessarily concerned about running into a bear (moreso a mountain lion), but I want to have the option.

[Bronx33]

http://www.davesguns.com/serverpics/FirearmsPage/Glock--30-01.jpg

Yep the military picked this weapon for a reason and for what you want it for it's perfect and when your friends ask you can say yaaaaaaaaaaa i got a glock.10mm should be perfect.

[Spider]

Is that true? They'll laugh @ a couple of .12 hollowpoint slugs??
a bear is an awesome creature , I have came acrossed 1 my entire life , I screamed like a school girl and ran for the truck luckly for me the bear ran the other direction , But yeah a buddy of mine 5 years ago was in the rattle snake mountian Range , he came acrossed one , He shot with a 44 mag 3 times hitting the bear Shoulder and the Belly , and the bear still kept comming , he locked himself in the camper , and the Bear damn near came through , he fired 2 more time, and the Bear left , Him and tim followed the trail of blood , untill they couldnt follow it anymore , so no one knows for sure if the bear died ........ I asked if it was a Grizzley , he gave me a funny look and said , Spider I didnt ask .... ;D

[Mediator12]

All depends on price range. Definitely .40 cal or up. I have a H&K USP .40 CAL. 3,000 ROUNDS W/O misfire. Special forces uses an even more robust H&K Mark 23 .40cal.

If you want to stop bears with a handgun though, you would probably need an illegal load for the gun.

[Spider]

I do most of my hiking in Colorado's Front Range and San Juan mountains, but I make sure to make at least one extended trip to the Wyoming Bighorns every summer (grew up in Buffalo). I know bears aren't a big concern in Wyoming, but there have been a couple recent bear attacks in Colorado. Anyway, I'm not necessarily concerned about running into a bear (moreso a mountain lion), but I want to have the option.
Buffalo , sweet country there ..... I bet you miss it ...... Yeah it is odd Bears have not been active for a few years now .... Those Cats are assholes Bro ...

[watermock]

Someone posted a picture of a Grizzly here, which makes a black bear look like a kitten. I can't remember the thread, but I guess the thing was looking into a second story window.

[Hogan11]

12 GAUGE slugs out of a shotgun dummy. They are as big around as a nickle and have a full shotgun cartridge pushing them. But it's only effective at relatively close range, 50 yards and in, and it's also cumbersome.

Well a thousand pardons there chief.....I've never seen a bear in the wild much less know what it takes to bring one down....hence, my question.

[Spider]

Someone posted a picture of a Grizzly here, which makes a black bear look like a kitten. I can't remember the thread, but I guess the thing was looking into a second story window.
Some Grizzly's are black in color , you cant go from Color , the ears and the infamous grizzly hump are the easist , you can also tell from the shape of their muzzle , but if you are that close it realy doesnt matter , you are in deep **** ;D

[watermock]

http://www.alaskatrophyadventures.com/DSCN0200_006.jpg

Don't worry, he's just sleeping PETA. BTW, I doubt they brought that big fella down with a pistol.

[Hogan11]

They had some pretty gruesome pics of a bear attack on here somewhere as well I believe......

[Spider]

This is a black bear
http://fwp.state.mt.us/bearid/images/buttons/BBear_E9E9D3.jpg

[GreatBronco16]

How bout these?

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg72-e.htm

Lots of handguns listed there that you can search through and read up on.

[watermock]

JEDEDIAH S. SMITH



Mountainman Explorer


Jedediah S. Smith was a trailblazer, brigade leader, and partner in two fur-trading companies whose travels took him throughout Utah and the West. Born in 1799, he was the first American after the Astorians to cross west over the Continental Divide, rediscovering South Pass; the first to cross overland to California, and in so doing journey the length of Utah; the first to traverse the Sierra Nevada; and the first to cross the Great Basin Desert.

In 1822 Jedediah Smith became one of the original "Ashley Men," trappers under the command of William Ashley. He ascended the Missouri River that spring under Andrew Henry's command and spent his first winter on the Musselshell River. In the spring of 1823 Smith was sent downriver to find Ashley's main group, at which time he proved his worth as a leader.

Though he was an accomplished outdoorsman, Smith did not fit the stereotype of the typical mountain man. He never drank, never used tobacco, never boasted and was rarely humorous. Another rare quality was his strident faith. Smith was very religious and often prayed and meditated. When fellow trapper John Gardner died, Smith gave the eulogy, as recorded by expedition member Hugh Glass:

"Mr. Smith, a young man of our company made a powerful prayer which moved us all greatly and I am persuaded John died in peace."

Smith proved himself a leader quickly on the trail. On his second expedition, he was attacked by a grizzly bear. The bear came out of the thicket and mauled Smith violently, throwing him to the ground, smashing his ribs and literally ripping off his scalp. When the attack was over, the scalp was hanging on to his head by an ear. Smith instructed Jim Clyman to sew it back on. Clyman did the best he could, but thought nothing could be done for the severed ear. Smith insisted that he try. According to Clyman,

"I put my needle sticking it through and through and over and over laying the lacerated parts together as nice as I could with my hands."
After two weeks of rest, Smith resumed his duty as captain of the party.

[GreatBronco16]

Here's a nice .357 magnum. The one with the 8 inch barrel.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg83-e.htm

[Raiders Rock]

Here's a nice .357 magnum. The one with the 8 inch barrel.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg83-e.htm


Thats a nice weapon but it is probably a bit bulky to carry in a back pack.

[scorpio]

Cool ****, thanks to everyone so far for the advice

[Florida_Bronco]

I'd think a .45 would bring down a bear if you put a bullet right between his eyes :thumbs: Then again, I've never shot a bear between the eyes with a 45.

I'd guess that if you ever do get in that situation, the load you use and how accurate you shoot will make the big difference.

As far as the gun itself goes, I really like the Para Ordinance 45 my friend has let me shoot, but I don't have much to compare it too.

[Raiders Rock]

This will drop that biatch
Model: 444MULTI
Caliber: .44 MAG
Capacity: 6
Barrel Length: 4"
Porting: No
Action: DA/SA
Finish: UltraLite Titanium Blue
Grips: Cushioned Inset Rubber Grip
Weight: 28.3 Oz.
Construction: Titanium/Alloy
Frame: Large
Front Sight: Red Fiber Optic Fixed
Rear Sight: Adj/Optical
Trigger Type: Smooth
Length: 9.8"
Width: 1.760"
Height: 6.280"
Rate of Twist: 1:16"
Grooves: 6
Safety: Transfer Bar
UPC: 7-25327-35125-2
Order #: 2-444041ULT
MSRP: $650.00
Status: Available

http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_444MULTI.jpg

[Mediator12]

Here's my baby:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg11-e.htm

[watermock]

Just get what Dirty Harry used.

[Raiders Rock]

Here's my baby:

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg11-e.htm

Nice gun, heres mine



http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/145L.gif

[Mediator12]

Actually, it is definitely too heavy for a backpack but this would do the trick in .50 cal.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg16-e.htm

[Mediator12]

Nice gun, heres mine



http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/145L.gif

3 inch Barrel? Mine is the Expert four. $1500 but never misfired.

[Raiders Rock]

Just get what Dirty Harry used.


Mock STFU, the men are talking now

[Raiders Rock]

3 inch Barrel? Mine is the Expert four. $1500 but never misfired.


Well, putting good money in a fine weapon will never be a bad move, that sounds like a fine weapon you have, but look out, there are some anti-gun bed wetting liberals here that are looking up serial numbers as we type ROFL!

[Bronx33]

http://www.alaskatrophyadventures.com/DSCN0200_006.jpg

Don't worry, he's just sleeping PETA. BTW, I doubt they brought that big fella down with a pistol.

I have seen many brought down with a pistol..........i doubt he's going to look go looking for them and the chances are slim to none he will run into one,an attack is almost out of the picture if hes a smart camper.10 times out of 10 yelling will keep a bear moving (i have seen it) i have slept in bear country.Having a weapon is a rather safe feeling when camping and i understand why he is asking.

[GreatBronco16]

I have a .50 black powder rifle that will take down any bear. But ofcourse, I don't think you could fit it into a backpack.

[scorpio]

http://www.taurususa.com/imagesMain/H_444MULTI.jpg
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/images/Products/145L.gif

I think I just creamed in my pants.

[Raiders Rock]

That 44 is a bad ass gun, Taurus is a good weapon, lower priced but lifetime warranty

[Mediator12]

Well, putting good money in a fine weapon will never be a bad move, that sounds like a fine weapon you have, but look out, there are some anti-gun bed wetting liberals here that are looking up serial numbers as we type ROFL!

Good thing I live in Indiana! Liberals do not make their way around here unless Julia Carson is having a Rally. If they want my serial number, they can have it.

I like the .40 because of the compromise in power and accuracy between .45 and 9mm.

[Raiders Rock]

Good thing I live in Indiana! Liberals do not make their way around here unless Julia Carson is having a Rally. If they want my serial number, they can have it.

I like the .40 because of the compromise in power and accuracy between .45 and 9mm.

Oh yea, that 40 is a fine round

[watermock]

Mock STFU, the men are talking now

Don't you have a desolate site to man?

I don't even like guns, but I know enough. I doubt as much as your cracker punk ass tho.

[Raiders Rock]

Don't you have a desolate site to man?

I don't even like guns, but I know enough. I doubt as much as your cracker punk ass tho.

Go pick some corn Geritol boy, the men are talking now.

[Mediator12]

RR ever get to fire the Desert Eagle? I have never even seen the .50 cal but had a good go with the .44. Impossible to control outside twenty yards, but the bear would definitely not get closer than that!

[watermock]

I'll man your fat ass up if your willing to show up without your capper. Get Bent. Try a new line. I didn't insult you asshole.

[watermock]

Second, your only about 6-8 years younger than I am you arrogant prick. Color your hair and you can imitate John Candy and die.

[BFDD]

Whatever you do, don't take gun safety from this guy.

http://www.big-boys.com/articles/shootsfoot.html

[Spider]

Go pick some corn Geritol boy, the men are talking now.
them squirrels get out of line you need somthing to keep them in line in your neck of the woods ... Wild Possum yikes hey ;D

[watermock]

One time in Dallas, some woman called in that there was a dead Armadillo in by her backyard fence. Animal control shows up and find it's my friend's fiance's Allegator purse. It was lifted in a resteraunt. Killer purse, but I don't think it was especially dangerous. No she didn't carry an allegator in it. Some punk just dumped it over the fence from the alley.

[Odysseus]

Nice pop guns fellars.

It annoys me how many people don't know the difference between a black bear and a Grizzly bear. Nature lovers should, IMHO, at least know something about nature. Nothing worst than walking through the wilderness and hearing some paranoid gun maniac shouting out "Brush shot".

I think getting gun advice is cool because I like guns but if you think you'll be running into bears I would get BEAR advice first. Guns are really not that big of a deal. Finding an outfitter who actually knows what he's talking about...there is a science.

[watermock]

At the north farm my nephew lives where I grew up, and he went into the cellar to check out if another Wolverine had dug out where I laid concrete next to the foundation. Something had dug around the concrete. I probably told this story. So this crawlspace is about 2.5 feet high, he gets down there and it's Mamma Skunk and 8 critters. Skunks are mean, part of the Wolverine family, but not quite as vicious, but obviously, she wasn't amused and sprayed his ass, jumped on his head and they had it out. Kinda hard to fight off Mommy Skunk in 2.5 feet of crawlspace. House stunk like Holy Hell for 5 months till it baked off, which isn't easy in a crawlspace. Skunks and Wolverines are actually good, they hunt rats which scavange around the grain bins. No doubt, that's why she was there. I don't let anyone hunt on my farm 'cept cats, and they like to chase mice, altho Rats are a bigger issue. I don't even let anyone mess with my Red Fox population that are endangered. There are not many places for them to make a burrow since most fences have come down... I must have a hundred Pheasant in the grove in a huge Covy, I don't like poisoning critters, it kills the cat if it tries to eat the Rat. Anyway, Matt smelled like Holy Hell for three weeks. More concrete and a trap outside. We got her trapped sans poison. Sorry, but your not a houseguest Mrs. Skunk.

So she sprayed again. Skunks and Wolverines are an even match with the meanest TomCat. What a smell. They can usually handle a rat, but only if the TomCat has some experience. I don't have any rats tho.

[watermock]

I have only seen one bear in Colorado. He wasn't interested in messing with me. Little Black one. I could of probably punched him in the nose, but I'm not interested in a Grizzly.

[ak1971]

Yep the military picked this weapon for a reason and for what you want it for it's perfect and when your friends ask you can say yaaaaaaaaaaa i got a glock.10mm should be perfect.


I didnt read the rest of this thredm but Glocks suck... I have a HK .40. best Hand gun around....sorry if this has already been discussed. Its Friday and well......

[Cito Pelon]

For revolvers, the .357 delivers the best muzzle "energy" (.44 probably better muzzle energy, but I don't think your accuracy will be worth a crap - too much kick). If you want a bear-stopper, the .357 with hollow-points is your guy. Personally, that's what I take back-packing. It's a show-stopper, simple as that. And revolvers never jam. Double-action/single-action only applies to revolvers and double-action is all there is now, single-actions haven't been mass-produced in a long time. I've never seen a revolver with a safety mechanism, maybe that is something you want to consider.

For auto pistols, a .45 or a 9mm packs quite a punch, right there with the .357. I wouldn't have much of a problem having one of those as a bear-stopper, but if an auto pistol gets dirty, just a few grains of sand in the magazine or especially the ejection mechanism, and . . . it can jam on you. An auto can also handle 12-20 rounds, as opposed to a revolver with 6 rounds max. Generally lighter than revolvers also, depending on how many rounds you have in the magazine. The big trouble with autos is they can jam, doesn't happen often with good brands, but you're backpacking. And as has been pointed out, the trigger trip will probably be lighter with an auto, as opposed to a revolver. Generally, it takes quite a squeeze to bring a double-action revolver to fire.

It's a tough call, especially back-packing. You want something light, and it's nice to have a 12 shot magazine, but personally I take the .357 4-inch barrel with 12 hollow-point 158 grains when I pack. Matter of fact, the .357 is traveling tomorrow.

[watermock]

Pretty good advice. .357 has excellent velocity if you want to take down Smokey Bear, and it won't kick quite as bad as a .45.

Little lighter as well. I think I agree with Cito that a revolver can handle more dirt if your hiking as well. Sand can literally jam a semi-auto.

They are cool as hell, but a double action .357 is probably the right way to go. The point really is to avioid Bears and especially cubs, and don't make eye contact. Watch your garbage, I don't know exactly what your supposed to do with it, I'm far from an expert.

I'm pretty sure a .357 will penetrate almost anything and it's fairly light.

[Has Been]

I do a lot of fly fishing down here in the San Juans. I regularly see bear sign and places where bears feed on berrys along the creek banks. I have only had two incounters with bear. Both times we avoided each other but it does make you think about "what if". I carry a .45 long colt with me. I suggest you consider the heaver calibers in a wheel gun for your bear concerns. For home defense the auto loaders are a super choice. I travel with a 9mm but have a .40 s&w for the house. In all cases talk to your local gun store guys about special ammo. I choose Star Fire for my protection. It comes in +P hollow point and has rapid expansion. You don't dare just shoot it up because it is too expensive, however it gives you some of the best knock down power available.
I'm glad to hear your concerned about defending yourself, too many people don't bother to think about these things and become victims.

[Ratboy]

Strong enough to take down a bear, yet safe enough for the family.. (http://www.blowgunsnw.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Category_Code=tranq&Screen=CTGY)

[SouthStndJunkie]

Small subcompact pistol with power?

Look no further my friend than the Para Warthog subcompact .45:

http://www.paraord.com/product/hawg.html

(scroll past the 9mm)

The latest super-compact, high-capacity .45 with truly awesome firepower is the new Para Warthog. There is no .45 ACP ten-round, semi-auto in the world smaller than the Warthog. This extraordinary pistol is only 6.5 inches in length and 4.5 inches high, including the magazine. And the Warthog is remarkably controllable, thanks to its superbly engineered and contoured grip design. Add the feeding and extracting reliability of the exclusive new Para Power Extractor™ and you have the best super-compact pistol on the ground or in the air.

I like the Pocket Glocks as well, but this is subcompact heaven.

SSJ

[SouthStndJunkie]

As for bears...I was in Katmai National Park in Alaska last fall. Katmai is world famous for their big Brown bears (coastal griz). Lot's of Brown bears all around Naknek Lake/Brooks River gourging on salmon. I ran into one by my cabin before dark crossing the trail and on a hike I ran into one and had to move off the trail. There were two of us and the bear looked at us for what seemed like 10 minutes, but was more like 10 seconds. It just kept walking down the trail. They are interested on gourging on salmon that time of year. The biggest thing is not getting caught in between a momma and her cubs. That and in the Fall if they do not get enough calories for the winter they can go into a hyperphagic state (desperate need to consume calories to survive).

There might be 6-10 Brown bears feeding at one time in some of the prime food spots in the river. They have a few viewing platforms that you can hike to. Pretty awesome site. I have a great pic of a huge bull moose wading through the river while 2 Brown bears watch. The moose was in rut..he was out for one thing.

I have seen plenty of Black bears. I see them every trip I go on up in Canada. They can be a pain in the ass and must be respected as well.

SSJ