How did the war with Osama get started?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

I'll give you one hint:

His nickname is "Red Ink" and he was a puppet of the Bush Crime Family...

http://www.juancole.com/graphics/reagan.jpg

Fisking the "War on Terror"

Once upon a time, a dangerous radical gained control of the US Republican Party.

Reagan increased the budget for support of the radical Muslim Mujahidin conducting terrorism against the Afghanistan government to half a billion dollars a year.

One fifth of the money, which the CIA mostly turned over to Pakistani military intelligence to distribute, went to Gulbuddin Hikmatyar, a violent extremist who as a youth used to throw acid on the faces of unveiled girls in Afghanistan.

Not content with creating a vast terrorist network to harass the Soviets, Reagan then pressured the late King Fahd of Saudi Arabia to match US contributions. He had earlier imposed on Fahd to give money to the Contras in Nicaragua, some of which was used to create rightwing death squads. (Reagan liked to sidestep Congress in creating private terrorist organizations for his foreign policy purposes, which he branded "freedom fighters," giving terrorists the idea that it was all right to inflict vast damage on civilians in order to achieve their goals)

Continued:

http://www.juancole.com/2005/08/fisking-war-on-terror-once-upon-time.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

(Continued)

Fahd was a timid man and resisted Reagan's instructions briefly, but finally gave in to enormous US pressure.

Fahd not only put Saudi government money into the Afghan Mujahideen networks, which trained them in bomb making and guerrilla tactics, but he also instructed the Minister of Intelligence, Turki al-Faisal, to try to raise money from private sources.

Turki al-Faisal checked around and discovered that a young member of the fabulously wealthy Bin Laden construction dynasty, Usama, was committed to Islamic causes. Turki thus gave Usama the task of raising money from Gulf millionaires for the Afghan struggle. This whole effort was undertaken, remember, on Reagan Administration instructions.

Bin Laden not only raised millions for the effort, but helped encourage Arab volunteers to go fight for Reagan against the Soviets and the Afghan communists. The Arab volunteers included people like Ayman al-Zawahiri, a young physician who had been jailed for having been involved in the assassination of Egyptian president Anwar El-Sadat. Bin Laden kept a database of these volunteers. In Arabic the word for base is al-Qaeda.

In the US, the Christian Right adopted the Mujahideen as their favorite project. They even sent around a "biblical checklist" for grading US congressman as to how close they were to the "Christian" political line. If a congressman didn't support the radical Muslim Muj, he or she was downgraded by the evangelicals and fundamentalists.

[Rohirrim]

The policy was created and implemented by Zbigniew Brezinski under Carter. The Reagan administration continued the policy. None of the Mujahadeen were anti-American terrorists at that point in time, although they were Islamic fundamentalists. They would more correctly be described as anti-Soviet-invasion guerillas. The Soviet debacle in Afghanistan (fueled by American support of the guerillas) was a keystone in the collapse of the USSR in 1991. Geopolitically, you have to decide which was the greater threat to the U.S., the Soviet Union, or the later transformation of these guerillas into the Taliban and Islamic terrorists.

Anyway, had the country followed Carter's implemented energy saving policies from that point in time onward, perhaps we would have been liberated from our ME oil dependency, not had any reason to prop up ME tyrannies, and thus, not been the focus of Islamic fundamentalists. Unfortunately, one of Reagan's first acts upon taking office was removing the solar panels Carter had installed on the WH roof, and followed that up by dismantling all of Carter's energy policies (a response to the oil embargo). Carter had it right. Reagan said suck up more oil and party on with the Saudis. In that way, I'd agree that his arrogance helped lead us to our present fix.

[Spider]

The Carter Doctrine ...... Protect the Middle east from all outside forces ......... The Carter Doctorine also wanted peace between Israel and Egypt , that gave us Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty. .....
Carter wanted the Shaw of Iran toppled .......
Reagan floowed this doctrine , with the exception of chemical weapons , Carter wanted conventional weapons in the Middle east , Reagan boosted this , then with the Arms for hostages in iran .......
Bush 1 was the one that realy got us caught up in Middle east internal fighting ( if there is such a thing ) when Iraq invaded Kuwait .....
What Carter and Reagan did was try to prevent Russia from taking the Middle east , Carter wanted US forces there , Reagan saw Iraq as the strongest of the Middle east and built Saddam up ..........
So how did this war with OBL start ? In the end with all of the missteps we have taken , it all started with Russia

[elsid13]

The Carter Doctrine ...... Protect the Middle east from all outside forces ......... The Carter Doctorine also wanted peace between Israel and Egypt , that gave us Egyptian-Israeli Peace Treaty. .....
Carter wanted the Shaw of Iran toppled .......
Reagan floowed this doctrine , with the exception of chemical weapons , Carter wanted conventional weapons in the Middle east , Reagan boosted this , then with the Arms for hostages in iran .......
Bush 1 was the one that realy got us caught up in Middle east internal fighting ( if there is such a thing ) when Iraq invaded Kuwait .....
What Carter and Reagan did was try to prevent Russia from taking the Middle east , Carter wanted US forces there , Reagan saw Iraq as the strongest of the Middle east and built Saddam up ..........
So how did this war with OBL start ? In the end with all of the missteps we have taken , it all started with Russia

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is the case.
The twin pillars of this conflict in my mind can be traced to two events. The withdraw of Great Britain and France after WWII, adding to collapse of the Ottoman Empire earlier. Leaving the former colonies without stable and free governments and economies. This leading to disfranchisement of the regular folks in the region, and provide ample recruiting ground for the terrorist groups. And second the end of the cold war, which with the peace dividend further worsen the economic factors in the region as super power withdraw from the region.

[Crushaholic]

The Soviet Union and communism was the enemy back then. If we hadn't struck a blow to communism, Afghanistan (and probably more countries in the Middle East) would have Soviet nukes aimed at us. I'm proud Reagan helped put a stop to that. We were spending billions on a containment policy that was not doing anything to ease the fears of Americans.

Fast forward to the 90's to today. Bin Laden no longer has Russians to fight, so he turns his terror tactics back onto America and her allies. That's not Reagan's fault Bin Laden turned into scum. He was just doing what he felt was right at the time when the enemy was the Soviet Union.

[Spider]

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions. This is the case.
The twin pillars of this conflict in my mind can be traced to two events. The withdraw of Great Britain and France after WWII, adding to collapse of the Ottoman Empire earlier. Leaving the former colonies without stable and free governments and economies. This leading to disfranchisement of the regular folks in the region, and provide ample recruiting ground for the terrorist groups. And second the end of the cold war, which with the peace dividend further worsen the economic factors in the region as super power withdraw from the region.
I agree , the fall of the ottoman empire was most devestating for the M.E. ...
good ole messopotamia ........the M.E. has been under alot of changes , with no guiding light

[Spider]

The Soviet Union and communism was the enemy back then. If we hadn't struck a blow to communism, Afghanistan (and probably more countries in the Middle East) would have Soviet nukes aimed at us. I'm proud Reagan helped put a stop to that. We were spending billions on a containment policy that was not doing anything to ease the fears of Americans.

Fast forward to the 90's to today. Bin Laden no longer has Russians to fight, so he turns his terror tactics back onto America and her allies. That's not Reagan's fault Bin Laden turned into scum. He was just doing what he felt was right at the time when the enemy was the Soviet Union.
I gues the point I took was ,the making of the monster , IE Ladin , Saddam , Hitler ( mainly ford and Grandpa Bush did this ) . It is a failed tactic ......
No question the previous admins felt they was doing what was best for America , but in the end it was a failed Tactic .......

[elsid13]

I gues the point I took was ,the making of the monster , IE Ladin , Saddam , Hitler ( mainly ford and Grandpa Bush did this ) . It is a failed tactic ......
No question the previous admins felt they was doing what was best for America , but in the end it was a failed Tactic .......


§Pide®

More likely they looked at the risk, and felt that the Soviet Union was more a risk "today" then the potential risk down the road. The West made allies of Stalin, just as much of a butcher as Hilter, because the Nazi were greater threat at that moment. It all about trade offs. Sometimes it does you no good to worry about who going to kill you tomorrow, when someone trying to kill you today.

[Spider]

§Pide®

More likely they looked at the risk, and felt that the Soviet Union was more a risk "today" then the potential risk down the road. The West made allies of Stalin, just as much of a butcher as Hilter, because the Nazi were greater threat at that moment. It all about trade offs. Sometimes it does you no good to worry about who going to kill you tomorrow, when someone trying to kill you today.
I agree , this has been the case , no questions about it .. Soon it will be israels turn to make a decision Befriend the USA or turn against us ........
I did say , these past Admins did what they felt is best . But it still doesnt change the fact it is a failed tactic .........