Just an Idea...

[epicSocialism4tw]

How can we deal with suicide bombers? I think that psycological warfare could be a deterrant at the grassroots level where young adults are being recruited from a life of depravity and poverty with the promise of instant admission into heaven with some serious benefits. What is there to lose when that is the case? Those of us that understand that it takes a little more than killing innocent people to get into heaven realize that if we take that away from them, then they haven nothing to die for. Its not reasonable to think that any of us will be able to convince them rationally otherwise, but there are some things that would work.

Drum roll please............................................ ......................................

Spray 'em down with pig fat! Have a team come in after the bombing and immediately spray down the remains of the bomber with pig fat. This would render the person unfit for heaven if I am interpreting the Qu'ran correctly. That might make those superstitious kids a little more weary of killing our people if their reward is taken away.

Just an idea.

[Rigs11]

How can we deal with suicide bombers? I think that psycological warfare could be a deterrant at the grassroots level where young adults are being recruited from a life of depravity and poverty with the promise of instant admission into heaven with some serious benefits. What is there to lose when that is the case? Those of us that understand that it takes a little more than killing innocent people to get into heaven realize that if we take that away from them, then they haven nothing to die for. Its not reasonable to think that any of us will be able to convince them rationally otherwise, but there are some things that would work.

Drum roll please............................................ ......................................

Spray 'em down with pig fat! Have a team come in after the bombing and immediately spray down the remains of the bomber with pig fat. This would render the person unfit for heaven if I am interpreting the Qu'ran correctly. That might make those superstitious kids a little more weary of killing our people if their reward is taken away.

Just an idea.

We should stop doing crap that pisses them off like invading their countries, installing puppet goverments. We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.

[El Guapo]

We should stop doing crap that pisses them off like invading their countries, installing puppet goverments. We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.


and according to the bible when israel no longer has any allies...well, welcome to the end times my friend.

I like the pig fat idea...not too shabby. or a nuke over there motherland, one of the two. :p

[Rigs11]

and according to the bible when israel no longer has any allies...well, welcome to the end times my friend.

I like the pig fat idea...not too shabby. or a nuke over there motherland, one of the two. :p

Well according to common sense, nuking anybody and its welcome ot the end of times.

[El Guapo]

Well according to common sense, nuking anybody and its welcome ot the end of times.

its a joke fool.

[Rigs11]

its a joke fool.

Can never tell with all the "christians" around here.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

We should stop doing crap that pisses them off like invading their countries, installing puppet goverments. We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.

Rep! ^5

Chalk up another point for the people with brains.

[clarker]

Rep! ^5

Chalk up another point for the people with brains.
What country did we take over before 9/11.

This is why everyone thinks your party is so weak.

Yeah, do what the terrorist tell us to do, that will solve it. Give in to their demands? That is the left's idea of solving the problem of crazy people killing themselves in order to kill others?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

What country did we take over before 9/11.

Um, he didn't say "take over" - he said "invade."

This is why everyone thinks your party is so weak.

This from a supporter of the same party that misled America into the current middle east quagmire/debacle?

Too funny! rofl

Yeah, do what the terrorist tell us to do, that will solve it. Give in to their demands? That is the left's idea of solving the problem of crazy people killing themselves in order to kill others?

If you honestly believe that anyone on the left is saying any of the above, then puff, puff, pass, homey.

[Rigs11]

What country did we take over before 9/11.

This is why everyone thinks your party is so weak.

Yeah, do what the terrorist tell us to do, that will solve it. Give in to their demands? That is the left's idea of solving the problem of crazy people killing themselves in order to kill others?

Do you agree that this is a war? If you do what happens when we either lose or stop making progress? Why is it that we can negotiate with the North Koreans, who are far more dangerous, and not the terrorists. This war on terrorism cannot be won through force. As for what country we invaded before 9/11, where the hell did that come from? Wasn't this post about the sucide bombers in the present?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

BTW, j/k with the reefer reference - I'm anti-drug. :D

[clarker]

Do you agree that this is a war? If you do what happens when we either lose or stop making progress? Why is it that we can negotiate with the North Koreans, who are far more dangerous, and not the terrorists. This war on terrorism cannot be won through force. As for what country we invaded before 9/11, where the hell did that come from? Wasn't this post about the sucide bombers in the present?I don't think of sucide bombers as any different that the highjackers on 9/11. They are terrorist. Period.

The difference between them and North Korea is that North Korea has not attacked anyone. I agree with you they could be far more dangerous than the terrorist, but as of now they haven't attacked anyone in 50 years.

Before you bring us Saddam and say he never attacked anyone, remember that he did invade Kuawit(sp?) and used WMD's on the Kurds.

[Rigs11]

I don't think of sucide bombers as any different that the highjackers on 9/11. They are terrorist. Period.

The difference between them and North Korea is that North Korea has not attacked anyone. I agree with you they could be far more dangerous than the terrorist, but as of now they haven't attacked anyone in 50 years.

Before you bring us Saddam and say he never attacked anyone, remember that he did invade Kuawit(sp?) and used WMD's on the Kurds.

Remember that the US supplied Hussein with those weapons that he used to gass the Kurds. Also as for Kuwait Iraq installed a puppet goverment there, kinda what the US did in Chile in '73,Guatemala in '53, East Timor '75. El Salvador '80. The list goes on.

[Spider]

I don't think of sucide bombers as any different that the highjackers on 9/11. They are terrorist. Period.

The difference between them and North Korea is that North Korea has not attacked anyone. I agree with you they could be far more dangerous than the terrorist, but as of now they haven't attacked anyone in 50 years.

Before you bring us Saddam and say he never attacked anyone, remember that he did invade Kuawit(sp?) and used WMD's on the Kurds.
Whats so funny about that is Saddam invaded Iran ( well tried to ) and Kuwait was part of Iraq back when it was called Mesopotamia and Saddam said he wanted to annex Kuwait back to Iraq , Bush sr said whatever dude .... well Saudia Arabia freaked out saying if Saddam gets Kuwait , he will control too much oil ...... We sold weapons right up to the day Saddam went into Kuwait ...
As for taking over countries , alot of the Middle east see American Military Bases and consider that a take over , and then they see the US pumping Billions per year into Israel ......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Remember that the US supplied Hussein with those weapons that he used to gass the Kurds. Also as for Kuwait Iraq installed a puppet goverment there, kinda what the US did in Chile in '73,Guatemala in '53, East Timor '75. El Salvador '80. The list goes on.

And Dick(less) Cheney, as CEO of Halliburton, was doing illegal business with Saddam all throughout the 90s while his fellow repugs were denouncing Hussein as public enemy #1.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Man...this thread was supposed to be non-partisan humor. Leave it to LA Propaganda Machine and his mini-me Riggs to kill the fun. Lighten up!

[epicSocialism4tw]

We should stop doing crap that pisses them off like invading their countries, installing puppet goverments. We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.

Israel gets preferential treamment because they are a democracy. They have really been our only reliable ally there.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Leave it to LA Propaganda Machine and his mini-me Riggs to kill the fun.

Still chuckling at the idea of being accused of posting "propaganda" by an inhabitant of Planet Bush.

Keep the thigh-slappers coming.

ROFL!

[Rigs11]

Man...this thread was supposed to be non-partisan humor. Leave it to LA Propaganda Machine and his mini-me Riggs to kill the fun. Lighten up!

Boo hoo. Go back and read the first half of your first post. It didn't sound like humor then did it. What's funny about this thread is that you have yet to use the word propaganda.Oh wait...

[Rigs11]

Israel gets preferential treamment because they are a democracy. They have really been our only reliable ally there.

I didn't ask why, I stated that the Us shouldn't. So if a country is a democracy they get to have Nukes?

[epicSocialism4tw]

Boo hoo. Go back and read the first half of your first post. It didn't sound like humor then did it. What's funny about this thread is that you have yet to use the word propaganda.Oh wait...

You must have not been able to understand the sarcasm. Go back and read carefully. Maybe get your mom and dad to help you with the big words.

Better yet, why dont you have LA Propagada Machine read it to you, then he can translate it into extremist leftie language for you and then maybe you can understand.

[epicSocialism4tw]

I didn't ask why, I stated that the Us shouldn't. So if a country is a democracy they get to have Nukes?

Yes. Plain and simple. Our allies get our military support. Move to France if you dont like it.

[RaiderH8r]

We should stop doing crap that pisses them off like invading their countries, installing puppet goverments. We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.
Christ, they cry in their turbans if Americans use two ply toilet paper. So their feelings become irrelevant to the discussion since they are dead set on being pissed off.

On another note, we can soak our bullets in pig blood and bury the dead insurgents face down covered in pig guts. Let's see Allah welcome them with open arms then. Of course I suspect if we began to do that somebody would cry foul over here...in fact I guarantee it.

[RaiderH8r]

Whats so funny about that is Saddam invaded Iran ( well tried to ) and Kuwait was part of Iraq back when it was called Mesopotamia and Saddam said he wanted to annex Kuwait back to Iraq , Bush sr said whatever dude .... well Saudia Arabia freaked out saying if Saddam gets Kuwait , he will control too much oil ...... We sold weapons right up to the day Saddam went into Kuwait ...
As for taking over countries , alot of the Middle east see American Military Bases and consider that a take over , and then they see the US pumping Billions per year into Israel ......
Well, they're morons. Whatever we give to Israel we give two fold to the ME in oil revenue. Maybe they should hop on board with the big team and start improving their lives. You know, schools, infrastructure, farming, things that aren't found in the Qu'ran.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Well, they're morons. Whatever we give to Israel we give two fold to the ME in oil revenue. Maybe they should hop on board with the big team and start improving their lives. You know, schools, infrastructure, farming, things that aren't found in the Qu'ran.
Or maybe we should become smarter than all of them, move away from oil and let them have the ME all to themselves?

[Spider]

Well, they're morons. Whatever we give to Israel we give two fold to the ME in oil revenue. Maybe they should hop on board with the big team and start improving their lives. You know, schools, infrastructure, farming, things that aren't found in the Qu'ran.
Never said they wasnt morons , Most religious fanatics are morons ....... What they need to do is look at their goverment recieving money from the USA putting a military base on their land ......you see the pattern ?
Much like Fox news , disinformation from the top to the people .......
The People are pissed , they are just pissed at the wrong people ..US . they need to be pissed off at their own goverment

[RaiderH8r]

Or maybe we should become smarter than all of them, move away from oil and let them have the ME all to themselves?
Yeah, because if we don't do anything over there they'll stop hating us Uhh There is nothing, zip, zilch, nada that will stop the jihadists from hating the west. Short of succumbing to their every whim and even then you're not safe so fvck'em.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah, because if we don't do anything over there they'll stop hating us Uhh There is nothing, zip, zilch, nada that will stop the jihadists from hating the west. Short of succumbing to their every whim and even then you're not safe so fvck'em.
No, because if we quit giving them all our money they might dry up and shrivel away. Or start wars with each other, etc, etc... Once they become a non-factor in the global equation any number of "unfortunate" things could happen to them.

[Rigs11]

Yes. Plain and simple. Our allies get our military support. Move to France if you dont like it.

Ah yes the "I ain't got anything left, so I'll use the move if you don't like it" card. Weak. You're a closet conservative aren't you?And by the way it's not plain and simple, whenever we arm our "allies" it's a big risk. Either they will turn and use those weapons on us, or it will piss alot of people off. Oh wait Dubya told you they hate us for our freedom, that must be it...

[Rigs11]

Yeah, because if we don't do anything over there they'll stop hating us Uhh There is nothing, zip, zilch, nada that will stop the jihadists from hating the west. Short of succumbing to their every whim and even then you're not safe so fvck'em.

Please explain this. Do you have anything to support this? How do you know that if we don't interfere they will hate us still?

[W*GS]

We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.

So we should treat tyrannical despots the same as we treat a healthy democracy?

[Rigs11]

So we should treat tyrannical despots the same as we treat a healthy democracy?

Is everyone in the middle east a tryrannical despot? How do you think the other countries there that already dislike Israel feel when the US arms them with weapons, and then turns around and tells other countries that they can't possess those same weapons?

[RaiderH8r]

Please explain this. Do you have anything to support this? How do you know that if we don't interfere they will hate us still?
Because for them it is not a matter of fact but a matter of perception. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube, the ME cat is out of the bag and it can't go back to pre-Israel relations. Even if we do nothing there the perception is that the US has a hand in everything. Furthermore, the hatred of the West fuels a money machine that keeps jihadists in a lifestyle they enjoy, at least the leaders.

Furthermore, if we choose diplomacy there must be consequences for deceitful and undesireable actions. Why will they hate us? Because of the consequences we impose for their actions as well we should do.

[W*GS]

Is everyone in the middle east a tryrannical despot?

Turkey is the country closest to Israel in terms of democracy. Iraq is a work-in-progress, the rest are dictatorships and/or authoritarian.

How should the US treat those other countries?

How do you think the other countries there that already dislike Israel feel when the US arms them with weapons, and then turns around and tells other countries that they can't possess those same weapons?

Since when do countries that hate the US care what the US says?

Be more specific.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://img276.imageshack.us/img276/499/georgesays36gq.jpg

[Rigs11]

Turkey is the country closest to Israel in terms of democracy. Iraq is a work-in-progress, the rest are dictatorships and/or authoritarian.

How should the US treat those other countries?



Since when do countries that hate the US care what the US says?

Be more specific.

So wait, Saudia Arabia is not a democracy? So then why do we have ties with them, why does Dubya scream about democracy and yet he holds hands with Saudia Arabia? Oh I get it, double standards. What about Ubekistan? That's a dictatorship too isn't it? Isn't it ruled by that guy that boils people alive? Why the ties? Oh that's right, double standards. If you haven't noticed all the protests throughout the world as well as the increase in terrorism those countries do care what the US says and does, very much so.

[W*GS]

[...]

Thanks for the JPG.

I'll have to file that one, and its URL, away for a while, so next time you claim to support gay marriage or that you're not a homophobe, you can be shown to be a liar. Again.

[W*GS]

So wait, Saudia Arabia is not a democracy? So then why do we have ties with them, why does Dubya scream about democracy and yet he holds hands with Saudia Arabia? Oh I get it, double standards.

Name me a US president since FDR who hasn't been very nice to the Saudis. They have a lot of oil, our economy (and that of the entire world) absolutely depends on that oil, so we overlook their antidemocratic government. Any real change to that reality will take decades to enact. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.

What about Ubekistan? That's a dictatorship too isn't it? Isn't it ruled by that guy that boils people alive? Why the ties? Oh that's right, double standards.

Welcome to realpolitik. Why did FDR ally the US with Stalin, who put even Hitler to shame when it came to slaughtering millions?

Reality often intrudes on idealism. You and I don't like it, but what do you propose instead?

If you haven't noticed all the protests throughout the world as well as the increase in terrorism those countries do care what the US says and does, very much so.

So, we should allow those who seek to terrorize us and kill us dictate to us who our allies are? Do you want the US in the position where the Islamist jihadis say "Boo!" and we jump and do their bidding?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Better yet, why dont you have LA Propagada Machine read it to you, then he can translate it into extremist leftie language for you and then maybe you can understand.

Hilarious!

Looks like almost every major newspaper in the country has become an outlet for "extreme leftist propaganda," what with TreasonGate showing up on the front page.

Reality is conspiring against angryDramaQueen and his fellow denizens of Planet Bush.

[errand]

We should stop doing crap that pisses them off like invading their countries, installing puppet goverments. We should also stop treating israel better than we treat the rest of the middle east.

Oh, yeah....as usual the word from the left is it's America's fault that terrorists exist, or more specifically GW Bush's fault that they exist ebcause we all know that until January 20, 2001 there was nary a terrorist to be found globally.

So tell us Raghib11 in all your infinite wisdom....

How many Israeli terrorists have firebombed a market place in Israel or Damascus, Bahgdad?....how many Israeli terrorists have blown up US property and citizens?

Oh, that's right, there hasn't been one ...... ever.

Now replace the word Israeli with Saudi, Lebanese, Iraqi, Iranian, Jordanese, Egyptian, Palestinian or any other of the middle eastern nations and let us know if the answer is the same.

BTW...did it ever occur to you that if they didn't piss us off by destroying the WTC and murdering our people we wouldn't have invaded their country?

[errand]

and according to the bible when israel no longer has any allies...well, welcome to the end times my friend.

I like the pig fat idea...not too shabby. or a nuke over there motherland, one of the two. :p

Careful, they'll start claiming you and I are brothers....or one in the same person.

There was story (not sure if it's true, but it sounds like a good idea nonetheless) about General Jack "Black" Pershing (in his early years) heading up a US detail to chase down Muslim terrorists in the Phillipines in the late 1800's-early 1900's.

They caught about 50 of them. He had a pig slaughtered in front of the prisoners, had his troops dip their bullets in it's blood, shot all but one of them, toss them into a hole, threw the pigs entrails and carcass on top of them...released the one they spared and said "Tell your people what you witnessed here today...."

The story ended claiming that it was over 45 years before there was another Muslim terrorist attack.

[BroncoInferno]

BTW...did it ever occur to you that if they didn't piss us off by destroying the WTC and murdering our people we wouldn't have invaded their country?

Uh, I guess you didn't get the memo...IRAQ DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Perhaps bold print will help this well established fact stay in your tiny, obtuse brain.

[Spider]

Uh, I guess you didn't get the memo...IRAQ DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Perhaps bold print will help this well established fact stay in your tiny, obtuse brain.
:~ohyah!: even if he did get the memo , he couldnt understand it .......

[BroncoInferno]

:~ohyah!: even if he did get the memo , he couldnt understand it .......

Maybe someone should write it for him in crayon. ;D

[errand]

Do you agree that this is a war? If you do what happens when we either lose or stop making progress? Why is it that we can negotiate with the North Koreans, who are far more dangerous, and not the terrorists. This war on terrorism cannot be won through force. As for what country we invaded before 9/11, where the hell did that come from? Wasn't this post about the sucide bombers in the present?

For someone who doesn't like the US invading other nations you sure have a itchy trigger finger for N. Korea, wouldn't you say?

OK Raghib11, let's invade Korea and start WWIII. what part of North Korea has nukes and that makes it a completely different scenario don't you understand?

See when another country already has nukes, then the chances of stopping them from being a threat without using nukes dwindles

Also Raghib11, tell us how this war on terror can be won if not by force?

BTW, the "country invaded" line came from you saying we shouldn't invade their countries in your initial response to this thread. You implied that invading their nations and setting up puppet regimes is what pissed them off....Clarker was responding to that.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Uh, I guess you didn't get the memo...IRAQ DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Perhaps bold print will help this well established fact stay in your tiny, obtuse brain.


I think that this is wrong. Iraq did have something to do with the terrorists as Hussein was making payments to the families of suicide bombers. When you take that into account with the information that Iraq was trying to increase their weapons capabilities, you have a pretty volatile situation. Saddam Hussein would not disclose to the UN what was behind closed doors and his statements stood in opposition to our satellite information. Im glad that we took the safe route. Im not ready to give our sovereignty over.

[errand]

Remember that the US supplied Hussein with those weapons that he used to gass the Kurds. Also as for Kuwait Iraq installed a puppet goverment there, kinda what the US did in Chile in '73,Guatemala in '53, East Timor '75. El Salvador '80. The list goes on.

Yeah, yeah, we've heard all about how the US sold Saddam weapons in the early 80's and all....but tell me, if I murder someone with a gun I purchased at Rex's Gun World...who should be held accountable, me or the guy who sold me the gun?

...and of course how many El Savadorian terrorist have attacked the US? Guatemalans? East Timorians?

BTW by your post it seems like Saddam was the one who was setting up puppet regimes in the middle east...not the US.

[BroncoInferno]

I think that this is wrong. Iraq did have something to do with the terrorists as Hussein was making payments to the families of suicide bombers. When you take that into account with the information that Iraq was trying to increase their weapons capabilities, you have a pretty volatile situation. Saddam Hussein would not disclose to the UN what was behind closed doors and his statements stood in opposition to our satellite information. Im glad that we took the safe route. Im not ready to give our sovereignty over.

Even the Bush administration has begrudgingly admitted that Iraq had no direct involvement with 9/11.

[Spider]

Maybe someone should write it for him in crayon. ;D
With Pictures ;D

[Spider]

I think that this is wrong. Iraq did have something to do with the terrorists as Hussein was making payments to the families of suicide bombers. When you take that into account with the information that Iraq was trying to increase their weapons capabilities, you have a pretty volatile situation. Saddam Hussein would not disclose to the UN what was behind closed doors and his statements stood in opposition to our satellite information. Im glad that we took the safe route. Im not ready to give our sovereignty over.
I never seen proof of this ..... talk about Propaganda .......

[Spider]

Even the Bush administration has begrudgingly admitted that Iraq had no direct involvement with 9/11.
Now this I have seen proof of ..... ;D

[epicSocialism4tw]

Even the Bush administration has begrudgingly admitted that Iraq had no direct involvement with 9/11.

9/11, Terrorists, Al Qaeda, is there really any other evidence that you need outside of checks directly written to Palestinian families of suicide bombers?

[errand]

Uh, I guess you didn't get the memo...IRAQ DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11. Perhaps bold print will help this well established fact stay in your tiny, obtuse brain.

I guess you didn't get the memo...what part of "We will track down and destroy the terrorists, and the nations who support them" don't you understand?

Iraq may not have had anything to do with 9/11...so freaking what, Saddam was the most dangerous one of the lot and openly supported terrorists (remember his $25 k reward for suicide bomber's families?)....

[errand]

Even the Bush administration has begrudgingly admitted that Iraq had no direct involvement with 9/11.

....so Achmel, what would you say if they were indirectly involved, like giving money, safe haven, training facilities for the terrorists?

[Spider]

....so Achmel, what would you say if they were indirectly involved, like giving money, safe haven, training facilities for the terrorists?
sounds like you are talking about Saudia Arabia . oh wait , they are our friends never mind ......

[W*GS]

sounds like you are talking about Saudia Arabia . oh wait , they are our friends never mind ......

What to do with Saudi Arabia?

Give me some ideas.

[Spider]

What to do with Saudi Arabia?

Give me some ideas.
Give you some ideas ? even If I did what in the hell would you do ?
we tried a gas Embargo back in 73-74 , that Idea damn near turned Saudi Arabia into a super power ......
Cheveron has the controling Intrest in Saudi oil . So what in the hell do you think will happen ? thats right not a damn thing .......
No way in hell does Cheveron allow a sanction ...... In turn niether will other big oil companies .....
I dont know maybe we should invade Pakistan , that will teach the leaders of Wahhabism a damn good lesson not to mess with us , after all it has worked in Iraq .......

[Spider]

Democrat or Republican .. doesnt matter Saudi Arabia is off limits ..... the only way is to find a different form of fuel , untill that happenes just like the war on Drugs , we are just spinning circles blowing smoke up our asses about fighting terrorism , when we Americans are the biggest donors to Wahhabism...........I wouldnt buy a quart of oil from Chevron .... I use Sinclair gas and oil ..... Low grade , not very good quality , but I am not supporting terrorist ......

[epicSocialism4tw]

Democrat or Republican .. doesnt matter Saudi Arabia is off limits ..... the only way is to find a different form of fuel , untill that happenes just like the war on Drugs , we are just spinning circles blowing smoke up our asses about fighting terrorism , when we Americans are the biggest donors to Wahhabism...........I wouldnt buy a quart of oil from Chevron .... I use Sinclair gas and oil ..... Low grade , not very good quality , but I am not supporting terrorist ......


The key to breaking that relationship is like you guys discussed earlier, developing alternative fuels form replenishable home-grown resources.

The problems that come along with that are based in industry. How do you make the transition? Slowly? What would the Saudis think of that? They probably wouldnt be too happy. How do you get struggling automakers to invest in r&d to cause revolution in the industry? Shouldnt competition have taken care of that already? Why hasnt it?

How do you replace natural oil-based products in the marketplace? With what do you do that with? How much is that going to cost? How do you replace all of the oil/gas product-driven machinery and tools in the marketplace?

Changing to alternative fuels seems like a near economic disaster, but it has to be done at some point. When does that occur?

[Spider]

The key to breaking that relationship is like you guys discussed earlier, developing alternative fuels form replenishable home-grown resources.

The problems that come along with that are based in industry. How do you make the transition? Slowly? What would the Saudis think of that? They probably wouldnt be too happy. How do you get struggling automakers to invest in r&d to cause revolution in the industry? Shouldnt competition have taken care of that already? Why hasnt it?

How do you replace natural oil-based products in the marketplace? With what do you do that with? How much is that going to cost? How do you replace all of the oil/gas product-driven machinery and tools in the marketplace?

Changing to alternative fuels seems like a near economic disaster, but it has to be done at some point. When does that occur?

you have some real strong points in this post I should answer point by point , but I think this will work ......
We have to do this in steps , we have 1 step now , mixing fuel with ethenol ..
2 nd step we have taken , more economic cars .....
3 rd step We must find ways to heat our homes , and business with the same combustible energy as oil , this is the real challenge ...... with oil we can get some real power from the combustion , we have to find away to match this on a large scale ..... but we could also take steps this way ......
this is whats missing in our debates , sure we can get an electric car , but you dont get the horsepower or torque ...... Alot of people need that horsepower and torque for work ...........

[W*GS]

I don't see much discussion of the other uses of oil besides being refined for transportation needs. There's a huge petrochemicals industry as well - plastics, chemicals, medicines, and so on, that are derived from oil. How do we alter it so we can reduce our need to import oil?

The whole issue is extremely complicated and not given to simple sloganeering and sound-bites. We want to maintain our standard of living, certainly, but given the absolute necessity of oil for almost everything we use and do, things will probably have to change.

[Spider]

I don't see much discussion of the other uses of oil besides being refined for transportation needs. There's a huge petrochemicals industry as well - plastics, chemicals, medicines, and so on, that are derived from oil. How do we alter it so we can reduce our need to import oil?
Thats the million dollar question .....

The whole issue is extremely complicated and not given to simple sloganeering and sound-bites. We want to maintain our standard of living, certainly, but given the absolute necessity of oil for almost everything we use and do, things will probably have to change.
agreed . all I did was provide steps I think we have taken or can take ..... but man we cant over look the power we get from Oil .....

[Rigs11]

Oh, yeah....as usual the word from the left is it's America's fault that terrorists exist, or more specifically GW Bush's fault that they exist ebcause we all know that until January 20, 2001 there was nary a terrorist to be found globally.

So tell us Raghib11 in all your infinite wisdom....

How many Israeli terrorists have firebombed a market place in Israel or Damascus, Bahgdad?....how many Israeli terrorists have blown up US property and citizens?

Oh, that's right, there hasn't been one ...... ever.

Now replace the word Israeli with Saudi, Lebanese, Iraqi, Iranian, Jordanese, Egyptian, Palestinian or any other of the middle eastern nations and let us know if the answer is the same.

BTW...did it ever occur to you that if they didn't piss us off by destroying the WTC and murdering our people we wouldn't have invaded their country?


Well Cletus let me try and put it in words that you can understand.First off the Israelis commit their attacks using US supplied blackhawks when they launch missiles at Palestinians. How many of the terrorists on 911 were Saudis again? Again there were not ties between Alqaeda and Iraq, even the schmuck in the white house has stated this.

[Rigs11]

For someone who doesn't like the US invading other nations you sure have a itchy trigger finger for N. Korea, wouldn't you say?

OK Raghib11, let's invade Korea and start WWIII. what part of North Korea has nukes and that makes it a completely different scenario don't you understand?

See when another country already has nukes, then the chances of stopping them from being a threat without using nukes dwindles

Also Raghib11, tell us how this war on terror can be won if not by force?

BTW, the "country invaded" line came from you saying we shouldn't invade their countries in your initial response to this thread. You implied that invading their nations and setting up puppet regimes is what pissed them off....Clarker was responding to that.


Were did I say we should invade North Korea Cletus? Maybe you should try rereading what I posted. I stated that since we can negotiate with the North Koreans who are far more dangerous with their "nucular" weapons, then why can't we do the same with the terrorists?A ceasefire and withdrawal of our troops from the middle east is the only thing that is going to end this Cletus.

[Rigs11]

Yeah, yeah, we've heard all about how the US sold Saddam weapons in the early 80's and all....but tell me, if I murder someone with a gun I purchased at Rex's Gun World...who should be held accountable, me or the guy who sold me the gun?

...and of course how many El Savadorian terrorist have attacked the US? Guatemalans? East Timorians?

BTW by your post it seems like Saddam was the one who was setting up puppet regimes in the middle east...not the US.

You blow off the selling of these weapons as if it were nothing, here is the deal Cletus. You should both be held accountable, got it? The seller of the gun should also have more brains then to sell one to an unstable person. You seem to think that people in other countries only keep track of what the US does in their country. That is also where you're wrong Cletus. They know how the US has installed puppet goverments in other countries, dictators who have slain many civilians. Google up "Pinochet" and read about how Nixon and Kissinger planned the coup to overthrow the president in Chile. Then Pinochet was in power for 17 years and killed thousands.Way to go USA!

[errand]

Well Cletus let me try and put it in words that you can understand.First off the Israelis commit their attacks using US supplied blackhawks when they launch missiles at Palestinians. How many of the terrorists on 911 were Saudis again? Again there were not ties between Alqaeda and Iraq, even the schmuck in the white house has stated this.

So the Israeli people are commiting terrorist acts against the US with weapons we provided to them? And your equating defending the Israeli people themselves against and retaliating against suicide bombers propped up by the PLO and Hamas as committing acts of terror?

As for the Saudi problem...well, first off your proving my point, we haven't seen any Israeli terrorists attacking the Us and it's citizens, but we have form all the other ME nations. and yet you wonder why we support Israel?

The Saudi government is tolerated because we need their oil to keep America's economy running, when the day comes and we don't need their oil, I'm sure you'll see a 180 in our relationship with them.

As for the "no ties between Iraq and Al-Q...riddle me this Raghib11....are we to believe that al-q was in every muslim nation on the face of the earth, and in many other ones as well like Spain, England, France Germany, Greece, Somalia, Niger, and even in the good 'ol US of A.....but they were never, ever in Iraq?

I'm not saying your stupid, but would ya have to be? They're all over the globe, but were never in Iraq....stop it, my sides are splitting!rofl

[errand]

You should both be held accountable, got it? The seller of the gun should also have more brains then to sell one to an unstable person.

That's like blaming your parents for letting you move out and live on your own.

[errand]

Were did I say we should invade North Korea Cletus? Maybe you should try rereading what I posted. I stated that since we can negotiate with the North Koreans who are far more dangerous with their "nucular" weapons, then why can't we do the same with the terrorists?A ceasefire and withdrawal of our troops from the middle east is the only thing that is going to end this Cletus.

So what then Raghib11? Let's say we withdraw everything american out of the ME....are you gonna sit there and type to us that terrorism will end?

Please explain this one to us...and what will you say if it doesn't end it? If we witdrew and got hit again, would you then give your leftist approval for the Us to knock the **** outta them bastards?

[W*GS]

A ceasefire and withdrawal of our troops from the middle east is the only thing that is going to end this Cletus.

Interesting. How does that work out such that the Islamic jihadists don't perceive it as a reward for their terrorism? What's to keep them from using terrorism to force the US to act as their puppet, given the above?

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Even the Bush administration has begrudgingly admitted that Iraq had no direct involvement with 9/11.

Too late - Cletus and his fellow knuckledraggers had already imbibed the Kool-Aid by then.

[Rigs11]

Interesting. How does that work out such that the Islamic jihadists don't perceive it as a reward for their terrorism? What's to keep them from using terrorism to force the US to act as their puppet, given the above?

The terrorists already have a reward in that everyone in the US goverment is running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to protect every possible part of this country from terrorists attacks. From railways to school lunches.The terrorists are already seaping their rewards from the bumbling in Iraq which now has become the biggest terrorist breeding ground.The terrorists are not bent on imperialism like the US, they just want us to stay the hell away from the middle east.

[Rigs11]

So what then Raghib11? Let's say we withdraw everything american out of the ME....are you gonna sit there and type to us that terrorism will end?

Please explain this one to us...and what will you say if it doesn't end it? If we witdrew and got hit again, would you then give your leftist approval for the Us to knock the **** outta them bastards?
Allright genius you heard my opinion, now what's yours? Do you honestly think in that crevace that you call a brain that we can kill every terrorist and that they will just give up? for every terrorist or civilian that you kill how many more pop up?Terrorist attacks and recruiting are up since Dubya invaded Iraq. What paart of that don't you understand?

[Rigs11]

Too late - Cletus and his fellow knuckledraggers had already imbibed the Kool-Aid by then.

http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/cletus/04.jpg

We should yeuse "nucular" wepens on them ther terorists..

[errand]

Allright genius you heard my opinion, now what's yours? Do you honestly think in that crevace that you call a brain that we can kill every terrorist and that they will just give up? for every terrorist or civilian that you kill how many more pop up?Terrorist attacks and recruiting are up since Dubya invaded Iraq. What paart of that don't you understand?

Well Raghib11, we tried it your way, we did nothing when they kidnapped Americans in Tehran, we did nothing when they firebombed the Marine barracks in Beirut, we did nothing when they bombed the WTCin '93, the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers, the US embassies in Africa.....we always did nothing...and that attacks didn't go away, they got worse!

Have you noticed that? Now we're doing what should have been done by the previous 4 administrations (Carter, Reagan, BushI, and Clinton). I'm convinced that had either one of these presidents stood up to them, we never would have seen 9/11.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

http://www.rob-clarkson.com/duff-brewery/cletus/04.jpg

We should yeuse "nucular" wepens on them ther terorists..

LOL

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

we did nothing when they kidnapped Americans in Tehran

Not true - Saint Ron gave the Iranians stinger missles in exchange for timing the release of the hostages with his inauguration.

we did nothing when they firebombed the Marine barracks in Beirut

That happened on Saint Ron's watch.

we did nothing when they bombed the WTCin '93

:bs:

The bombers were hunted down, arrested, tried, convicted, and jailed - on Clinton's watch (even though Clinton had only been in office for three weeks when the bombing happened.)


the USS Cole..

BushCo blew off the investigation. Longtime bush crime family friend Barbara Bodine (then ambassador to Yemen) did everything in her power to thwart the F.B.I. investigation.


the Khobar Towers, the US embassies in Africa.....we always did nothing...

:bs:

The perps were either captured or killed.

I'm convinced that had either one of these presidents stood up to them, we never would have seen 9/11.

:bs:

If the Smirking Moron hadn't chosen to ignore numerous warnings from multiple sources that al Qaeda was planning suicide attacks inside the U.S. then 9/11 wouldn't have happened. Even the kid gloves-wearing 9/11 Commission said the attacks were preventable.

Bottom line: When they took office, the Dim Son Misadministration scrapped Clinton's counterterrorism program and replaced it with NOTHING.

If you want to point fingers at administrations who didn't do enough about terrorism, then you should start with the administration you're shilling for. They did absolutely nothing until after 9/11.

At least Clinton did something - and, though he wasn't perfect, he did a pretty good job, all things considered.

[W*GS]

The terrorists already have a reward in that everyone in the US goverment is running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to protect every possible part of this country from terrorists attacks. From railways to school lunches.The terrorists are already seaping their rewards from the bumbling in Iraq which now has become the biggest terrorist breeding ground.The terrorists are not bent on imperialism like the US, they just want us to stay the hell away from the middle east.

That doesn't answer my question.

Suppose the US does as you say (and what the terrorists want) - does a quick cut-and-run from Iraq, withdraws support from Israel, and quits selling weapons to every other ME country.

What do you think will happen?

[W*GS]

Even the kid gloves-wearing 9/11 Commission said the attacks were preventable.

Where?

That directly contradicts what Richard Clarke said before the 9/11 Commission. He stated that had the Bush administration continued every plan and policy of the Clinton administration, the 9/11 attacks would have occurred anyway.

At least Clinton did something - and, though he wasn't perfect, he did a pretty good job, all things considered.

Had Clinton declared war on al-Qaeda, (as he should have, with any one of its attacks on us providing ample justification), there's a very good chance 9/11 wouldn't have happened. It was precisely because Clinton didn't do much of anything, even after those other attacks, that al-Qaeda was able to plan and carry out 9/11 without interference.

Spin and weave all you want to protect Clinton, LABF, but you're just going to look pathetic when you do.

[Rigs11]

That doesn't answer my question.

Suppose the US does as you say (and what the terrorists want) - does a quick cut-and-run from Iraq, withdraws support from Israel, and quits selling weapons to every other ME country.

What do you think will happen?

I think that Israel already has enough weapons to defend itself, hell it has nukes.As for Iran I think they should have someway to protect themselves against Israel.Iraq is such a mess though,not sure.I do think that if a ceasefire was also put in place that they would leave us alone.Can I say this would definitely work? No. But then again what we are doing now sure isn't.

[Rigs11]

Well Raghib11, we tried it your way, we did nothing when they kidnapped Americans in Tehran, we did nothing when they firebombed the Marine barracks in Beirut, we did nothing when they bombed the WTCin '93, the USS Cole, the Khobar Towers, the US embassies in Africa.....we always did nothing...and that attacks didn't go away, they got worse!

Have you noticed that? Now we're doing what should have been done by the previous 4 administrations (Carter, Reagan, BushI, and Clinton). I'm convinced that had either one of these presidents stood up to them, we never would have seen 9/11.

Yeah and now that you say we're doing something, terrorism is worse than ever. By the way the Dubya admin had plenty of warnings that 9/11 was going to happen, but they chose to ignore the recommendations and memos from the Clinton admin.If those previous admins would have done what you say we would now be in World War III which is were were headed with this regime changing mentality. The Chinese and Russsians have both warned us on this.

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

No W*GS, Clinton did do something. He asked Osama Bin Laden to kindly please appear before court in New York on charges of terrorism, and conspiracy to commit terrorism. Of course the guy they sent to serve him the indictment, couldn't find him because Bin Laden was in Afghanistan by then. So Clinton decided to show the US he wasn't a puss, and launched Tomahawk missles at an abandoned terrorist facility. rofl

[Rigs11]

No W*GS, Clinton did do something. He asked Osama Bin Laden to kindly please appear before court in New York on charges of terrorism, and conspiracy to commit terrorism. Of course the guy they sent to serve him the indictment, couldn't find him because Bin Laden was in Afghanistan by then. So Clinton decided to show the US he wasn't a puss, and launched Tomahawk missles at an abandoned terrorist facility. rofl

Yeah and what did Dubya do?He invaded Afghanistan, let Bin laden go at Tora Bora by hiring afgans to go after him.Not to mention stating that bin laden was a priority and then flip flopping and saying tha he didn't care where he was.
:hitself:

[BRONCCRUSHFAN]

Yeah and what did Dubya do?He invaded Afghanistan, let Bin laden go at Tora Bora by hiring afgans to go after him.Not to mention stating that bin laden was a priority and then flip flopping and saying tha he didn't care where he was.
:hitself:

Well, when your economic reforms aren't producing the desired results, and foreclosures are at an all time high and you cannot find the man that Col. North said needed to be eliminated with extreme prejudice not more than a decade earlier, what do you do? Hey let's invade a country that we gave the technologies to make WMD 25 years earlier. That ought to occupy the minds of the Xbox, ADD generation long enough before they realize that he doesn't have a clue what to do.