Soldier gets 15 months for refusing to return to Iraq

[Spider]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050729/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/objecting_soldier


By RUSS BYNUM, Associated Press Writer Fri Jul 29, 7:28 AM ET

FORT STEWART, Ga. - Before being sentenced to 15 months for refusing to return to
Iraq with his Army unit, Sgt. Kevin Benderman told a military judge that he acted with his conscience, not out of a disregard for duty.
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"I am not against soldiers," Benderman said at his court-martial Thursday. "Though some might take my actions as being against soldiers, I want everyone to be home and safe and raising their families. I don't want anyone to be hurt in a combat zone."

Benderman was acquitted of desertion but convicted of the lesser charge of missing movement, meaning he skipped his Jan. 8 deployment flight. He could have received five years in prison if convicted of desertion.

Along with his prison sentence, Benderman will receive a dishonorable discharge and have his rank reduced to private.

The 40-year-old Army mechanic was embraced by anti-war advocates when he refused to go on a second combat tour in January, saying the destruction and misery he witnessed during the 2003 Iraq invasion had turned him against war.

Defense attorneys argued that the Army wanted to punish Benderman for seeking a discharge as a conscientious objector and speaking out publicly about his anti-war views. Prosecutors said he had an obligation to deploy while the Army considered his conscientious objector application, which Benderman filed 10 days before his 3rd Infantry Division unit deployed.

Benderman's company commander in the division's 3rd Forward Support Battalion, Capt. Gary Rowley, said the verdict would send a message to other soldiers who may look for a way out of serving in Iraq.

[Spider]

"If they saw this and found out it works using smoke and mirrors to get by, we'll have other soldiers saying, `Well, I'm a conscientious objector,'" said Rowley, who returned to Fort Stewart from Iraq to testify at Benderman's court-martial. "They need to know there are consequences for not doing their duty."

William Cassara, Benderman's civilian defense attorney, argued that Benderman believed he had been excused from deploying so he could work on his objector application.

"I think the sentence was overly harsh," said Cassara, who said the soldier would get an automatic appeal. ........
a 40 year old Man ...... what was Errends excuse , Oh thats right he is old .......

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

You have to salute this guy for understanding the lesson of the Nuremberg Trials and acting accordingly.

[elsid13]

You have to salute this guy for understanding the lesson of the Nuremberg Trials and acting accordingly.



Two different things completely, you can not draw a parallel at all. It fine that he objective to going but he need to go or be disciplined. The military doesn’t work if individual ignore lawful legal orders. AT the end of enlistment then he can decide that no longer want to be in service, but now he need to follow orders

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

The military doesn’t work if individual ignore lawful legal orders.

That which is lawful or legal isn't necessarily moral or right.

AT the end of enlistment then he can decide that no longer want to be in service, but now he need to follow orders

The Nuremberg trials taught us that this argument cuts both ways, i.e., the Nazis used it as a defense, i.e., "I was just following orders."

Beware of any philosophy that places following orders (obedience without content) over right and wrong.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

War in Iraq violates international law

More than two grueling years have passed since U.S. and coalition forces stormed into the sovereign nation of Iraq. Still there has been little discussion in this country about the legal standing of the invasion.

Perhaps that is because most Americans are reluctant to admit this inconvenient but certain fact: The United States/United Kingdom invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a war of aggression, a crime against the peace as defined by the Nuremberg Principles.

Various legal experts employed by the coalition governments will dispute this. But their arguments are incredibly weak and are not taken seriously by an overwhelming majority of scholars of international law in the world. These independent legal scholars, such people as Sean Murphy of George Washington University, Mary Ellen O'Connell of Ohio State University and Philippe Sands of University College London, all hold that the invasion was a blatant violation of international law.

There are only two cases in which a nation or group of nations can legally undertake armed intervention against another nation: in self-defense against an armed attack or if the United Nations Security Council authorizes a coalition of nations to intervene militarily to maintain peace and security in the world.

Contrary to what the Bush administration would like the world to believe, the invasion of Iraq can be justified neither on the basis of self-defense nor because it was sanctioned by the Security Council.

These are the facts that outline the legal status of the war:

# The primary grievance against Iraq was the claim that it had weapons of mass destruction and ongoing illicit weapons programs.

# The U.N. weapons inspection team was invasively and thoroughly determining whether such weapons or weapons programs existed in Iraq.

# The U.N. Security Council was not willing to grant authority to invade Iraq while the U.N. inspection team was handling the illicit weapons problem peacefully.

# President Bush launched the invasion of Iraq anyway, in contravention of the U.N. Security Council and the U.N. Charter. Without Security Council authorization, the invasion was illegal and must be classified as a war of aggression.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

(Continued)

Should Americans be concerned about international law? It is quite clear that Bush has little regard for it. Yet, the United States was founded on the basis of the rule of law. Article VI of the Constitution states that treaties, which this country has signed and ratified, are the "supreme law of the land."

The U.N. Charter is such a treaty, and it was created in large part because of the efforts of this country following World War II. For this country to so egregiously transgress the charter's prohibition on the use of force is not only a violation of international law, it is a violation of our Constitution and a repudiation of much of what this country stands for.

A thoughtful person does not require the U.S. Constitution or the U.N. Charter to understand the monstrosity of this invasion. Common sense and decency should tell us that launching an unprovoked invasion of another country, even one ruled by a man as nefarious as Saddam Hussein, is simply mass murder. What of the tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis who have died as a result of this military incursion? Did anyone ask them if they were willing to sacrifice their lives in a risky attempt to install democracy in their land?

Whether Americans realize it or not, the integrity of the United States has been dealt a serious blow. This country can no longer be regarded as a nation that stands upon the legal and moral high ground. There is little doubt people of most countries now regard us as hypocrites.

In an effort to regain our lost integrity, it is time we hold accountable, through impeachment and prosecution, the leaders who planned and launched this disastrous and criminal war.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/232622_ourplace15.html

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

AT the end of enlistment then he can decide that no longer want to be in service, but now he need to follow orders

Does this rule apply to all the Americans who carried out acts of torture and abuse ordered at Abu Ghraib?

Were the whistleblowers traitors?

[Mile High Shack]

Two different things completely, you can not draw a parallel at all. It fine that he objective to going but he need to go or be disciplined. The military doesn’t work if individual ignore lawful legal orders. AT the end of enlistment then he can decide that no longer want to be in service, but now he need to follow orders

to compare the Iraq war to the Nazi regime is insane...but that is LABF, it's why I have him on iggy

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

to compare the Iraq war to the Nazi regime is insane...but that is LABF, it's why I have him on iggy

:stupid:

The comparison had to do with the soldier's actions and the precedent set by the Nuremberg trials, dumbass.

[elsid13]

LABF

I not seeing the parallel at all, they are not asking the soldier to kill unarmed civilians in cold blood, they are asking him to particpate in operation in hostial enviroment. Yes the war sucks, but that one of the risk that you take when volunteer for US Military, you get to be sent into sh@tty situation. What about his buddies and rest of the soldiers and marines that over there, doesn't he own it to them to do his duty???

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

LABF

I not seeing the parallel at all, they are not asking the soldier to kill unarmed civilians in cold blood, they are asking him to particpate in operation in hostial enviroment. Yes the war sucks, but that one of the risk that you take when volunteer for US Military, you get to be sent into sh@tty situation.

The parallel is that BushCo is asking the soldier to take part in a war crime, viz., an illegal invasion/occupation of a sovereign nation. And unarmed civilians are being killed in cold blood. If the American media were covering this war like it covered Vietnam, then the whole thing would be over so fast it would make your head spin. Further, as we now know, some soldiers are being asked to deliberately kill (and torture and rape) unarmed civilians (see Abu Ghraib.) Hence, it's not simply a "sh@tty situation" - its a criminal enterprise.

What about his buddies and rest of the soldiers and marines that over there, doesn't he own it to them to do his duty???

If only it were that simple.

Bush is committing war crimes in Iraq. The soldier has a moral (and legal) duty to avoid using the same cop-out used by the Germans charged with war crimes in the Nuremberg trials, i.e., "I was only following orders."

Anyone who really cares about the welfare of the troops should be doing everything in his power to bring them home and to hold Bush accountable for war crimes.

This soldier, and many others like him, are facing the same kind of moral dilemma as an earlier generation who went to (or avoided) Vietnam.

The usual chickenhawks can slam this soldier (and people like John Kerry) until they're blue in the face, but if it weren't for people like the latter, Americans would probably still be dying in Vietnam.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

When this soldier is finished doing his 15 months, I hope he will follow John Kerry's example and work tirelessly to bring his buddies home a.s.a.p.

[Crushaholic]

Does this rule apply to all the Americans who carried out acts of torture and abuse ordered at Abu Ghraib?


It depends on if they acted on their own accord or were following orders from their superiors. If they did what they wanted without the knowledge of superiors, you could say they were disobeying orders. The key is obeying orders from superiors. If the superiors were in the wrong, that's an entirely different matter, altogether.

This guy failed to fulfill his assignment by not returning to Iraq, so he should face the consequences.

[errand]

When this soldier is finished doing his 15 months, I hope he will follow John Kerry's example and work tirelessly to bring his buddies home a.s.a.p.

...yeah, he might follow John Kerry's footsteps and become enshrined in a Muslim museum in Baghdad.

amazing, when Eddie Kennison decided he didn't want to honor his contract you wanted him lynched....and yet a soldier renegs on his contract, and he's a hero to you clowns.....go figure.

[errand]

On one hand I can almost understand the guy not wanting to go back and serve....afterall, had he returned to Iraq, it would have only been a matter of time before he's called a Nazi by the likes of Spider and LABF.

[errand]

The usual chickenhawks can slam this soldier (and people like John Kerry) until they're blue in the face, but if it weren't for people like the latter, Americans would probably still be dying in Vietnam.

and one could argue if not for the latter, the people of South Vietnam would still be free from an oppressive cpmmunist regime. Ho Chi Mihn thanked John Kerry....Osama and his crew thank you.

[Spider]

On one hand I can almost understand the guy not wanting to go back and serve....afterall, had he returned to Iraq, it would have only been a matter of time before he's called a Nazi by the likes of Spider and LABF.
Only if he behaves like you would and pump in kids in the ass in the name of fighting terrorism ........... Thats disgusting errand , I sure hope there isnt young kids in the hood where you live .......

[W*GS]

This guy failed to fulfill his assignment by not returning to Iraq, so he should face the consequences.

Bingo. With an all-volunteer military, there's no excuse for not fulfilling one's duty to serve.

[Spider]

Bingo. With an all-volunteer military, there's no excuse for not fulfilling one's duty to serve.
well at the age of 40 . Stop loss has to hurt ...... I am in the middle here , I see his side , but then he knew what he was getting into when he put his John Hancock on the dotted line and Chashed the checks the Military gave him .......

[W*GS]

well at the age of 40 . Stop loss has to hurt ...... I am in the middle here , I see his side , but then he knew what he was getting into when he put his John Hancork on the dotted line and Chashed the checks the Military gave him .......

Exactly.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

...afterall, had he returned to Iraq, it would have only been a matter of time before he's called a Nazi by the likes of Spider and LABF.

And, just like all his other claims, I'm sure errant can provide quotes in which either Spider or I have called troops "Nazis."

Like his model Rush the Junkie, errant just makes sh!t up as he goes along.

and one could argue if not for the latter, the people of South Vietnam would still be free from an oppressive cpmmunist regime.

More revisionist history, wingnut style. The smart money says errant is still having trouble dealing with the outcome of the civil war as well.

Osama and his crew thank you.

On the contrary, Osama and his crew (who, BTW, had nothing to do with Iraq before the AWOL monkey invaded) thank bush blowers like you for enabling an administration whose policies have done more for terrorist recruitment and the exacerbation of anti-American feeling in the Muslim world than they ever imagined in their wildest wet dreams.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Only if he behaves like you would and pump in kids in the ass in the name of fighting terrorism ........... Thats disgusting errand , I sure hope there isnt young kids in the hood where you live .......

No sh!t.

This morally twisted, brain-damaged f_ck is actually trying to sell the notion that anyone who objects to the idea of Americans raping children for the camera is a traitor who "wants the terrorists to win."

This guy's insistence on putting party loyalty before country and before common decency and morality is simply puke-inducing.

[Spider]

No sh!t.

This morally twisted, brain-damaged f_ck is actually trying to sell the notion that anyone who objects to the idea of Americans raping children for the camera is a traitor who "wants the terrorists to win."

This guy's insistence on putting party loyalty before country and before common decency and morality is simply puke-inducing.
thats how these people are in Carolinias ....... In Errands defense he was probably still high from the Snake venom .........

[Spider]

Exactly.
Push comes to shove , you have to side with the law , the law is clearly stated in the contract he signed ........ But he is willing to go to Jail..... Gotta repsect that , he could have ran to Canada , France ....... If you agree with him or not , you have ot admire the stance he made ........ Ali Stance was a lot different , but alog the same lines .....

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

thats how these people are in Carolinias ....... In Errands defense he was probably still high from the Snake venom .........

:giggle: :laugh: ROFL! rofl

[Hogan11]

well at the age of 40 . Stop loss has to hurt ...... I am in the middle here , I see his side , but then he knew what he was getting into when he put his John Hancork on the dotted line and Chashed the checks the Military gave him .......


When you make a deal with the Devil for college money, they have you for years after you do your time and get out.

My Nephew has found that out the hard way, he was backdrafted eight months before he was to be "out from under".....he's accepted it, but knows you can't trust them with anything they tell you. So, if you're in that position, you just have to plan for Iraq or the Stan and hope that it turns out not to be that worst case senerio.

[Spider]

When you make a deal with the Devil for college money, they have you for years after you do your time and get out.

My Nephew has found that out the hard way, he was backdrafted eight months before he was to be "out from under".....he's accepted it, but knows you can't trust them with anything they tell you. So, if you're in that position, you just have to plan for Iraq or the Stan and hope that it turns out not to be that worst case senerio.
Serving your country is a proud and honorable thing , but you are correct.....From the way I see it , the war in Iraq ended when Bush announced mission accomplished , what we are doing now , and have been doing is nation building ....... 2 different things

[elsid13]

Serving your country is a proud and honorable thing , but you are correct.....From the way I see it , the war in Iraq ended when Bush announced mission accomplished , what we are doing now , and have been doing is nation building ....... 2 different things


The correct DC term is we're now engaged in Operations other then War (OTW). But back to the theme of the thread, it sucks but solidier should have gone back for host of reasons. If he didn't want to fight, he could have asked for his MOS to be reassigned to Medical one, were he could have been a medic and not front line soldier. Though with the nature of this conflict there real is no front line.

[Spider]

The correct DC term is we're now engaged in Operations other then War (OTW).
Figures ......

But back to the theme of the thread, it sucks but solidier should have gone back for host of reasons. If he didn't want to fight, he could have asked for his MOS to be reassigned to Medical one, were he could have been a medic and not front line soldier. Though with the nature of this conflict there real is no front line.
Thats true , but I do like the stand he made instead of defectig to canada or france , that I give hi credit for ......