Why Red States Love Democratic govenors

[Spider]

http://www.westerndemocrat.com/2005/07/why_the_red_sta.html
The question has been raised about why Democrat governors are popular in Red States. Here is one possible answer.

Republicans have positioned themselves as the low tax party. The advantage is obvious: people would prefer not to pay taxes. But there is a flip side. Unless you can run an infinite deficit, low taxes mean small, perhaps inadequate public services. Americans are willing to pay taxes if they believe they will receive commensurate benefits. Roads, schools, and social security are examples of programs they are willing to pay for. Most Americans don’t want the public sector to shrink to zero, yet the GOP pushes a “starve the beast” strategy. This strategy leads to massive deficits at the federal level. In the short run, voters don’t immediately feel the downside of that deficit. At the local level, however, starving the beast very quickly means cutting schools programs, not fixing roads, not removing the snow or the garbage, weakening police and fire protection, etc. If you are suspicious of the distant federal government, but still want good government services, a Democrat mayor or governor may be your best option.

[Spider]

ow does this play out locally? Let us look at San Diego. In principle, San Diego city government is non-partisan, but in practice the city has favored the Republican model of low taxes, also unfortunately coupled with giveaways to special interests. The result is a crumbling infrastructureIn the disastrous 2003 Cedar fire, San Diego had no helicopters to help stop the blaze. After this year's record rainfall, San Diego lacked the money to repair potholes. (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/sunday/commentary/la-op-finestcity24jul24,0,4401717.story?coll=la-home-sunday-opinion) So when Republican Steve Francis ran in the mayoral election with a no new taxes pledge, he did not overwhelm the local electorate. He finished third and out of the November runoff.

[elsid13]

Everyone wants good schools for thier kids, roads they can drive on, police and fire service, but you need to pay for the public goods. It amaze me that some folks are so stupid that don't realize this, they are usually the first to complain if the service are not there.

[Spider]

Everyone wants good schools for thier kids, roads they can drive on, police and fire service, but you need to pay for the public goods. It amaze me that some folks are so stupid that don't realize this, they are usually the first to complain if the service are not there.
I agree . In wyoming we have 2 billion in the coffers and 23 counties ......
I would love to see a vast improvment in our Schools here , Granted some counties only have about 5 k people in it , but we could spread the money evenly .. we could upgrade Medical , schooling , Roads , Communities in general ......... And what does Wyoming want ot do with the 2 billion ? save it ...... for a rainy day ....... I am all for saving money , but we have needs that has to be met .....

[Play2win]

Everyone wants good schools for thier kids, roads they can drive on, police and fire service, but you need to pay for the public goods. It amaze me that some folks are so stupid that don't realize this, they are usually the first to complain if the service are not there.


It is amazing to me how some really SMART people can be sooo STUPID...

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I don't think most intelligent people resent reasonable taxes and legitimate government spending. I think the real problem is that the government sector is perceived as wasteful. You hear stories about it almost every day in tha paper or on the news. You drive down the road and see 12 guys standing around a pothole smoking a cigarette. We see legislators taking trips to Hawaii for a conference on some stupid issue. I see my elementary school required to spend over 1/2 million dollars to become ADA compliant when they have never had a kid in a wheelchair attend. The examples are endless.

[elsid13]

I don't think most intelligent people resent reasonable taxes and legitimate government spending. I think the real problem is that the government sector is perceived as wasteful. You hear stories about it almost every day in tha paper or on the news. You drive down the road and see 12 guys standing around a pothole smoking a cigarette. We see legislators taking trips to Hawaii for a conference on some stupid issue. I see my elementary school required to spend over 1/2 million dollars to become ADA compliant when they have never had a kid in a wheelchair attend. The examples are endless.


I know that there are inefficiencies and waste in the public sector, (just like the private sector but the media doesn't report on that) but is continuing to cut taxes the answer to all the problems. We are at war, as the president continues to remind us, should we as the America public not be willing to pay more to offset war costs???

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I know that there are inefficiencies and waste in the public sector, (just like the private sector but the media doesn't report on that) but is continuing to cut taxes the answer to all the problems. We are at war, as the president continues to remind us, should we as the America public not be willing to pay more to offset war costs???

The detail in my previous post applied more directly to State and local governments as that was the topic of this thread. But in answer to your question, My opinion is that the government should focus on how to spend the tax dollars they do collect more effectively to stimulate the economy, protect our national security, safety, health and welfare and with the building of necessary public projects that cannot be profitably built by private industry. Like I said, I do not have a problem spending tax money on worthwhile projects, but I do have a problem with the waste that we see in our tax dollars. And yes, there is waste in private industry, but if the management of that company does not make an honest attempt to cut waste the company will fail or the management will be replaced. We generally do not hold our elected officials to those same standards during elections.

[elsid13]

The detail in my previous post applied more directly to State and local governments as that was the topic of this thread. But in answer to your question, My opinion is that the government should focus on how to spend the tax dollars they do collect more effectively to stimulate the economy, protect our national security, safety, health and welfare and with the building of necessary public projects that cannot be profitably built by private industry. Like I said, I do not have a problem spending tax money on worthwhile projects, but I do have a problem with the waste that we see in our tax dollars. And yes, there is waste in private industry, but if the management of that company does not make an honest attempt to cut waste the company will fail or the management will be replaced. We generally do not hold our elected officials to those same standards during elections.

Thanks for the good post. I think everyone would agree that tax are required but have has the Republic party painted itself into a corner, at both the state and local when they continue to push tax cut as the only solution? In Virginia, the previous Republican governor ran on cutting the car tax, he won and he started eliminating this tax. But since this was one of the major revenue streams for the state ( and the local governments) state/local projects and schools took a hit, and we only emerged form this crisis in last couple of year.

[Crushaholic]

In the case of Kansas, the Republican candidate for governor was HORRIBLE. He allowed the Democrats to paint him as an evil person who wants to do all sorts of harm to Kansas. He ran an awful campaign and got what he deserved. Our Democrat governor is up for re-election next year. We'll see if the Republicans put up a viable candidate to beat her... :pray:

[Montaq]

In the case of Kansas, the Republican candidate for governor was HORRIBLE. He allowed the Democrats to paint him as an evil person who wants to do all sorts of harm to Kansas. He ran an awful campaign and got what he deserved. Our Democrat governor is up for re-election next year. We'll see if the Republicans put up a viable candidate to beat her... :pray:

If you're a Republican and you lose an election in KS - there's something wrong with you. If Brownback can get elected and re-elected, I would think any Repub could. ???

[W*GS]

[...]At the local level, however, starving the beast very quickly means cutting schools programs, not fixing roads, not removing the snow or the garbage, weakening police and fire protection, etc.

Baloney.

The level of taxation is always higher than that needed to supply essential goods and services. The reason things like schools, road maintenance, fire and police protection, etc. get cut is because bureaucrats want to preserve all functions of government, preferably with ever-increasing budgets. If they cut the non-essential stuff, then taxpayers would see that their taxes don't need to be so high.

The folks in government aren't stupid. They will always put the most-needed programs up for cuts first, rather than the wasteful and idiotic ones.

[Spider]

Baloney.

The level of taxation is always higher than that needed to supply essential goods and services. The reason things like schools, road maintenance, fire and police protection, etc. get cut is because bureaucrats want to preserve all functions of government, preferably with ever-increasing budgets. If they cut the non-essential stuff, then taxpayers would see that their taxes don't need to be so high.

The folks in government aren't stupid. They will always put the most-needed programs up for cuts first, rather than the wasteful and idiotic ones.
The world according to W*GS ....... Tell me there politics guru So what Programs could be cut with out harming a community ?

[W*GS]

So what Programs could be cut with out harming a community ?

Depends on the community.

Certainly not everything a government does is vital to the functioning of society as a whole.

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

It's not always direct taxes that are the problem. For instance in my city, the building requirements on furnaces require additional venting that is required no place else in the country and usually adds $700-1100 to the cost of replacing your furnace. Guess what - the city councilman who ran this through is an HVAC contractor.

[elsid13]

Baloney.

The level of taxation is always higher than that needed to supply essential goods and services. The reason things like schools, road maintenance, fire and police protection, etc. get cut is because bureaucrats want to preserve all functions of government, preferably with ever-increasing budgets. If they cut the non-essential stuff, then taxpayers would see that their taxes don't need to be so high.

The folks in government aren't stupid. They will always put the most-needed programs up for cuts first, rather than the wasteful and idiotic ones.

So it a great conspiracy, huh? I was think it funny that folks blame bureaucrats for all the problems, then don’t blame the politicians who enact the laws and set the policies. Unlike the British system most local civil servants have little power and are whim of the local elected officials

[W*GS]

So it a great conspiracy, huh?

I wouldn't use the word "conspiracy".

I was think it funny that folks blame bureaucrats for all the problems, then don’t blame the politicians who enact the laws and set the policies. Unlike the British system most local civil servants have little power and are whim of the local elected officials

Somewhat. Politicians can come and go, but bureaucrats stick around until they're dead.

[Spider]

Depends on the community.

Certainly not everything a government does is vital to the functioning of society as a whole.
Lets take Casper , growing ( not like Vegas but simple enough to use ) , we have more people moving here , that means we have to expand our infrastructure , as in sewage , water , trash removal , Schools , Roads , More police , more firemen , more stop lights , more public assistance , etc .....
so we know we cant cut sewage , Water , Trash Removal , schools and roads , stop lights etc . are pretty important , ah Public asistence , lets start there , ok No one gets help for anything , tired of supporting single parent families , so the mother becomes a hooker to eat and take care of her kids , Crime rate just jumped up , thats a good way to get compainies to move to your community , Kids of the hooker are not attending school cause mom sleeps alot during the days , so now we have Kids learning that selling drugs gets money helps mom . again there goes the crime rate .. Companies dont like that .... Now we have people living in the streets of Casper , alot of unexpected Medical bills came up that young couples working cant afford , so now we have homless , they get robbed , again more crime . see the pattern here ?

[W*GS]

Lets take Casper , growing ( not like Vegas but simple enough to use ) , we have more people moving here , that means we have to expand our infrastructure , as in sewage , water , trash removal , Schools , Roads , More police , more firemen , more stop lights , more public assistance , etc .....

Boulder doesn't have government-run trash services.

Add up the costs of all those usually government-supplied local services: Police, fire, local road maintenance, traffic control, sewerage, water, schools (here the county collects property taxes which fund most of the costs of the local school district), and so on.

Is your fair share of the taxes needed for those things more or less than what you currently pay?

[Spider]

Boulder doesn't have government-run trash services.

Add up the costs of all those usually government-supplied local services: Police, fire, local road maintenance, traffic control, sewerage, water, schools (here the county collects property taxes which fund most of the costs of the local school district), and so on.

Is your fair share of the taxes needed for those things more or less than what you currently pay?
yes they do, the land fill .......... ..

[Spider]

Oh and we have a flat tax in wyoming . so yeah it is fair

[Crushaholic]

If you're a Republican and you lose an election in KS - there's something wrong with you. If Brownback can get elected and re-elected, I would think any Repub could. ???

The Republicans really dropped the ball in the governor's race last time. We'll see next year...

As far as Brownback is concerned...he started as a U.S. Representative, has lots of contacts, and also relied on the senior senator Pat Roberts and his Republican contacts to help him win office. Now, he's entrenched into the job. The Democrats only put up token opposition against him in the last election.