Suspected Suicide Bomber shot dead by police (photos of suspects as well)

[eddie mac]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706787.stm

Man shot dead by police on Tube

Police have cordoned off a 200-metre area around the station
A man has been shot dead by armed officers at Stockwell Tube station, as police hunt four would-be bombers.
Passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers" with a handgun.

"I saw the gun being fired five times into the guy - he is dead," he said.

Passengers were evacuated from the Northern Line station in south London. The incident followed four minor explosions in the capital on Thursday.

Police have cordoned off a 200-metre area around Stockwell station.

Services on the Victoria and Northern lines have been suspended following a request by the police, London Underground said.

Ambulances including an air ambulance have been sent to the scene at Stockwell.

They pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him

Witness Mark Whitby


'They unloaded five shots'

Mr Whitby, told BBC News: "I was sitting on the train reading my paper.

"I heard a load of noise, people saying, 'Get out, get down'!

"I saw an Asian guy run onto the train hotly pursued by three plain-clothes police officers.

"One of them was carrying a black handgun - it looked like an automatic - they pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him."

Passenger Alison Bowditch told BBC News: "The tube pulled into the station and we were sitting there, you know, as you do and then there was just a lot of shouting and the sound of gunfire and then people were saying, 'Get off, get off!'

"Somebody definitely went to the ground and as they went to the ground I heard gun fire and assumed they had been shot."

People on my train started banging on the doors, saying, 'Let us off, let us off!

Passenger Jason Dines

Jason Dines, of Brixton, south London, was on a train that pulled in to Stockwell station at about 1000 BST.

He told BBC News: "I suddenly became aware there was a real sense of panic.

"I could see people running down the platform to the exit.

"People on my train started banging on the doors, saying, 'Let us off, let us off!'

"They were making so much noise, it was impossible to hear the driver's announcements.



"The fear was contagious - I felt my heart racing.

"The doors of the train opened - but the driver was trying to get everyone to get back on the train.

"The PA system on the platform was clearer.

"Once people got the message they got back onto my train, and we continued on our way.

"At that point people were saying they had seen armed police shoot a man on the opposite platform.

"People were very scared. I was very angry."

After Thursday's London blasts, the bombers fled after detonators went off, causing small blasts, but failed to detonate the bombs themselves.


Police are believed to be under orders to shoot to kill if they believe someone is about to detonate a bomb.

[Meck77]

[url]
Passenger Mark Whitby told BBC News he had seen a man of Asian appearance shot five times by "plain-clothes police officers" with a handgun.

".

Asian guy? I'm confused he was a suspect in another bombing attempt or a suspect from Thursday?

[Atlas]

Wahoooooooooo!!!!!!

[Atlas]

Asian guy? I'm confused he was a suspect in another bombing attempt or a suspect from Thursday?

They said he was from Bangledesh

[Meck77]

Got to hand it to the Brits. I like their shoot to kill policy. No way that would work in America. You would have guys like LABF raising holy hell if our police started shooting suspects. Our country is too polictically driven to give our police the authority to do their jobs without fear of being sued or ending up in jail.

[Merlin]

I wonder why they had to shoot him if they had him down. I guess he could still set off the explosives if he was not completely restrained.

Merlin

[Atlas]

Got to hand it to the Brits. I like their shoot to kill policy. No way that would work in America. You would have guys like LABF raising holy hell if our police started shooting suspects. Our country is too polictically driven to give our police the authority to do their jobs without fear of being sued or ending up in jail.

I disagree. If we were bombarded by suicide bombers and if the NYPD was chasing a suicide bomber suspect does anyone doubt that they wouldn't kill the guy when given a chance.

[watermock]

I hope they read him his rights.

"You have the right to be shot 5 times at point blank range..."

Sounds like the Brits are getting pretty pissed off. I sure hope he had a bomb on him or there will be hell to pay. I guess he jumped the turnstile and was in chase, so who can blame them, but it seems odd they would cap him 5 times if he was down if only to interrogate the slimball. They probably figured he had his finger on the detonator. I don't have a problem capping his ass, one less drag on the court system.

[Spider]

Kinda makes that O'Reilly argument Brits are soft on terror argument look stupid ......
But on anther note , someone posted a thread here about Terrorism support is on the decline , while I was happy to see that , I was perplexed why Saudia Arabia and Philipines and Asia was left off the poll .......

[Old Dude]

I wonder why they had to shoot him if they had him down. I guess he could still set off the explosives if he was not completely restrained.

Merlin

That would be my guess. This sounds less like an execution and more like panic.

[watermock]

56 killed and over 700 injured will tend to piss you off, especially since they tried the same stunt a couple days ago. I have more respect for vermin and mosquitos.

[Sodak]

That would be my guess. This sounds less like an execution and more like panic.

I sounds like Darwinism to me. Act like a dumbass and die.

[Meck77]

I disagree. If we were bombarded by suicide bombers and if the NYPD was chasing a suicide bomber suspect does anyone doubt that they wouldn't kill the guy when given a chance.

Oh yeah sure. They would gun him down but if they made a mistake there would be tens of thousands of LABF protesting in the streets that Bush is a criminal. You know they would blame Bush.

You just can't please all the people all the time in America is my point. This country is split down the middle. PERIOD.

If Bin Laden's head was delivered on a platter to Bush's office today half the country would celebrate and half the country would try and spin ths situation into a negative thing. Not sure how they would do it but they would.

Let me make this more practical. Everyone wants the terrorism to end "I think" yet we aren't willing to make the sacrifice. Just go to your local airport when the security lines are backed up. There will be dozens of people complaining. That's just one example.

Like Bush or not there hasn't been a terrorist attack here since 9-11. Something has to be working.

[Pezman]

One down, several to go.

How's that for a nice, speedy trial by lead? ;D
Here's my favorite quote when they snuffed his ass

"They pushed him onto the floor and unloaded five shots into him. He's dead," witness Mark Whitby told the British Broadcasting Corp. "He looked like a cornered fox. He looked petrified." Good. Lets hope he was terrified right up until the end the bastard.

[Bronx33]

The guy was running he didn't have to run he knew exactly what was going on and why the cops wanted to stop him,if you ask me he was up to something and if he's one of the savages bravo to the british, it sounds like they are on the ball over there.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Here are the 4 bombers (I guess they are not committing suicide anymore) in the latest London bombing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8655541/

[Pezman]

Here are the 4 bombers (I guess they are not committing suicide anymore) in the latest London bombing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8655541/

Gonna merge this llama since its related to the other thread.


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Art/SPORTS/050722/050722_four_suspects_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

[eddie mac]

Here's a couple of up to date reports:

AIM WAS TO ARREST MAN

Specialist officers had been tailing the man shot at Stockwell Tube station from his home, says Sky News Crime Correspondent Martin Brunt.

Police believed the Asian man was responsible for an attempted attack on the nearby Oval Tube on Thursday and had set up surveillance on him.


Brunt said officers had followed the man from his home and that the initial plan was to arrest him.

But from his home to Stockwell Tube, events overtook police and marksmen were forced to shoot.

Despite temperatures of around 22C (72F), officers and witnesses said the man was wearing a heavy coat under which it was feared may have been a bomb.

Brunt said: "Intelligence officers had suggested he was the bomber from Thursday.

"Officers were confronted with the very real possibility that this man did have a bomb."

Initial examinations though, said Brunt, did not discover any explosives on the suspect.

Stockwell shooting link to bombings

Click here to play video
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair has said the shooting of the man at Stockwell Tube station was "directly linked" to anti-terror operations.

Sir Ian said his officers hunting the bombers were now facing "previously unknown threats and great danger".

Scotland Yard said: "A man was challenged by officers and subsequently shot. London Ambulance Service attended the scene. He was pronounced dead at the scene."

Witnesses said the man was shot five times at close range after he had jumped on a train.

Passenger Mark Whitby said: "As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified.

"He sort of tripped but they [the police] were hotly pursuing him and couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.

"He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him."

There have been unconfirmed reports that police believe the dead man was one of the attackers involved in yesterday's attempted explosions in the capital.

However Sir Ian appealed to people not to be swayed by the dozens of rumours and unsubstantiated comments about the bombings and those who carried them out.

"There are rumours sweeping London and I appeal to people to listen to the facts as they emerge. This operation is targeted against criminals - not any community or section of a community."

A large area around Stockwell Tube Station, an interchange for the Northern and Victoria lines in south London, remains cordoned off.

Tube services on Victoria and Northern lines were suspended at the request of the police.

Detectives are also searching an address an address in northwest London in connection with the investigation.

Witnesses reported that a small area of Harrow Road had been cordoned and what looked like a bomb disposal vehicle was in the area.

They said police had told them to stay indoors although the area had not been evacuated.


Police have also arrested another suspect in connection with Thursday's attempted bombings.

[epicSocialism4tw]

Gonna merge this llama since its related to the other thread.


http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Art/SPORTS/050722/050722_four_suspects_hmed_9a.hmedium.jpg

Excellente, senior

[Garcia Bronco]

Awesome work...I'm glad they got him before he could cause damage to citizens. I'm on a plane right now and this makes me feel a wee more comfortable.

[Bronx33]

"He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him."


If this is true the brits are not fu**** around!

[epicSocialism4tw]

Oh yeah sure. They would gun him down but if they made a mistake there would be tens of thousands of LABF protesting in the streets that Bush is a criminal. You know they would blame Bush.

You just can't please all the people all the time in America is my point. This country is split down the middle. PERIOD.

If Bin Laden's head was delivered on a platter to Bush's office today half the country would celebrate and half the country would try and spin ths situation into a negative thing. Not sure how they would do it but they would.

Let me make this more practical. Everyone wants the terrorism to end "I think" yet we aren't willing to make the sacrifice. Just go to your local airport when the security lines are backed up. There will be dozens of people complaining. That's just one example.

Like Bush or not there hasn't been a terrorist attack here since 9-11. Something has to be working.

I agree Meck. How soon we forget that we have stopped a few attempts right after 9/11. Heck, we have already forgotten 9/11. Outside of tightening up border control, our government has made a commitment to improving our protection.

Hooray for the Brits...this might be a huge break for terrorist intelligence agencies in Britain. Those guys are going to be caught, and they are going to be interrogated.

[Garcia Bronco]

I'll tell you why Merlin....they had to shoot his ass because the time for playing games with these "human beings" has passed.

[sirhcyennek81]

a terrorists ceases to be human the minute he or she undertakes an act that will cause pain or horror or death. they forfeit the rights they would scream and harp on if taken alive. they obviously dont care for western civil law, so why care if they live or not?

[broncosteven]

I didn't know the Brit Cops carried Guns. Did anyone see the Reno 911 episode (not to make light of the London attacks) where they had the Brit cop as an "exchange" cop for a day? Freaking Hysterical!

Must be the Beat cops that don't carry guns or they changed the policy...

[eddie mac]

Awesome work...I'm glad they got him before he could cause damage to citizens. I'm on a plane right now and this makes me feel a wee more comfortable.

It's reported that the guy who was shot was not one of the 4 suspects caught on CCTV but that he was connected with Thursday's ongoings.

[bendog]

We're lucky to not have a high arab population to make it easier for the terrorists to hide. We'd have to do the same thing, and it may well come to pass. Esp in a place like NY or Det where there is a higher % of pop of people from places like India and Pak.

[Merlin]

I'll tell you why Merlin....they had to shoot his ass because the time for playing games with these "human beings" has passed.
I agree that you don't want to play with him, but if he is not an immediate threat then he is more valuable alive than dead.

Bendog, in certain areas of the States you have decent sized populations of Arabs. However, terrorism is not limited to Arabs, nor are these fanatic Islamics (I have no idea what the plural is).

PS, I disagree that there would be a general outcry if police killed a terrorist in a chase the in the States. Police in NY have killed people for much less with impunity. However, you will always have idiots who will complain no matter what the circumstances (and the same would be the case in the UK).

Merlin

[footstepsfrom#27]

Got to hand it to the Brits. I like their shoot to kill policy. No way that would work in America. You would have guys like LABF raising holy hell if our police started shooting suspects. Our country is too polictically driven to give our police the authority to do their jobs without fear of being sued or ending up in jail.
Hmmm...I must admit it does seem quite unreasonable not to allow cops to arbitrarily shoot "suspects"...think how much money we waste on foolish stuff like judges and juries...Actually there have been plenty of examples of similiar situations in America, which is why we have IA departments and citizens review boards attached to police actions.

I have ZERO sympathy or concern for the terrorists, including this animal, but you know what would have been nice? If they hadn't used him for target practice and we could have kept this guy alive. Why? Because he MIGHT have provided some useful information about the NEXT possible attempt to blow people up. IF the apparent eye-wittness accounts are correct, and IF he wasn't strapped to a bomb and attempting to detonate it, the Brits screwed up. He should be sitting in front of a hot light bulb right now getting the rubber hose treatment from a couple of guys sporting lots of scars and bad breath.

[sirhcyennek81]

how much information do you think a suicide bomber has?

[Phantom]

Sounds like a setup to get the world bitching about the use of force, or discrimination on behalf of the London police. The media and "freaks" siding with the terrorist to push an agenda, is the best weapon the terrorist have.

The dude was under surveillance, dressed in a winter coat and runs to a subway with the police chasing him, yet has nothing to hide. Sounds like a ploy to stir up chit on the news. These terrorist have a plan too - creating negativity and division is what works for them.

Just a guess ........ but if the story stands as is, the news will be filled with the use of excessive force, stereotypes, bla, bla, bla.

[footstepsfrom#27]

how much information do you think a suicide bomber has?
More than he can give us now.
The dude was under surveillance, dressed in a winter coat and runs to a subway with the police chasing him, yet has nothing to hide. Sounds like a ploy to stir up chit on the news. These terrorist have a plan too - creating negativity and division is what works for them.

Just a guess ........ but if the story stands as is, the news will be filled with the use of excessive force, stereotypes, bla, bla, bla.
If the story stands as it is, somebody quite a few levels up the ladder from the cop who shot this guy is going to be asking him why we don't now have the benefit of a live witness with possible ties to AQ or who knows what.

[Phantom]

More than he can give us now.

If the story stands as it is, somebody quite a few levels up the ladder from the cop who shot this guy is going to be asking him why we don't now have the benefit of a live witness with possible ties to AQ or who knows what.

True, but I believe the cops will say "what would you do when the suspected terrorist, concealing something under a heavy coat and hell bent on reaching that crowded subway, refused to submit and had his hands under the coat, etc"

That's why I believe it was a setup to create more challenges in the efforts of policing terrorism. Just a guess, but nothing else seems to make sense.

[footstepsfrom#27]

If in fact this guy realy was a suicide bomber or any other kind of terrorist, and not just some poor shmuck shoplifter who boosted a magazine, we may have wasted a great opportunity. How many times have we actually caught somebody either post terrorist event or as a result of a failed attempt? The next bomb that goes off in London will give us an opportunity to wonder what this dude might have told us had we been given the chance to ask. If the guy was armed or wired with explosives, the Brits need to say so. Because if he wasn't, then hindsight says they made a mistake.

[Bronx33]

Lets see this guy runs (he didn't have to) and on top of that runs to the subway? Now look at this from a cops point of view, a guy under survalience for bombimg subways run (to the subway)pretty odd if you ask me, now i'am assuming here but why would a cop fill an unarmed man with five bullets unless he was trying to stop this clown from doing something such as reaching in his coat.Lets wait for the whole story to come out on this odd happening.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If in fact this guy realy was a suicide bomber or any other kind of terrorist, and not just some poor shmuck shoplifter who boosted a magazine, we may have wasted a great opportunity. How many times have we actually caught somebody either post terrorist event or as a result of a failed attempt? The next bomb that goes off in London will give us an opportunity to wonder what this dude might have told us had we been given the chance to ask. If the guy was armed or wired with explosives, the Brits need to say so. Because if he wasn't, then hindsight says they made a mistake.
This idiot had an overcoat on and was running towards people and the trains.
He was told repeatedly to stop. If what I've read is true the police had no choice but to believe he was another suicide bomber and stop him anyway possible.

[footstepsfrom#27]

My point is that the eye witness on the scene claims that the cops already had him down. They pushed him to the floor, bundled on top of him and unloaded five shots into him

Witness Mark Whitby
The devil is in the details. Maybe they had no choice...maybe the witness is wrong...maybe he was reaching for a bomb...maybe a split second decision warranted killing him...I don't know. I'm only saying that it's unfortunate that we can't get any information from this guy.

[Garcia Bronco]

I agree that you don't want to play with him, but if he is not an immediate threat then he is more valuable alive than dead.

Bendog, in certain areas of the States you have decent sized populations of Arabs. However, terrorism is not limited to Arabs, nor are these fanatic Islamics (I have no idea what the plural is).

PS, I disagree that there would be a general outcry if police killed a terrorist in a chase the in the States. Police in NY have killed people for much less with impunity. However, you will always have idiots who will complain no matter what the circumstances (and the same would be the case in the UK).

Merlin

Catching him for intel would be a plus....but we can't take chances. It's quite a moral dilemmia. I think at some point you cut your losses and do what you think will cause the greatest good. I think the police acomplished the greatest good today.

[RaiderH8r]

Catching him for intel would be a plus....but we can't take chances. It's quite a moral dilemmia. I think at some point you cut your losses and do what you think will cause the greatest good. I think the police acomplished the greatest good today.
They may have considered sending him to Gitmo for interrogation but decided the crybabies in America would be too much of a hassle and opted for the simpler route.

[Old Dude]

how much information do you think a suicide bomber has?

Maybe not much, but probably more when he's alive than when he's dead.

[footstepsfrom#27]

On the other hand, if the planners figured he was going to die anyway, they might not have considered the possibility of him being captured and perhaps they were careless about revealing things or speaking openly about what they wouldn't have ordinarily trusted him with. We'll never know.

[GonzoLays]

The police must have known that he did not have explosives on his body because why in the hell would the shoot him in the torso then?

[watermock]

I didn't know the Brit Cops carried Guns. Did anyone see the Reno 911 episode (not to make light of the London attacks) where they had the Brit cop as an "exchange" cop for a day? Freaking Hysterical!

Must be the Beat cops that don't carry guns or they changed the policy...

Reno 911 is funny as hell. Noone really gives a shiat.

[Bronx33]

The police must have known that he did not have explosives on his body because why in the hell would the shoot him in the torso then?


I don't know Quincy you tell us.........

[watermock]

The police must have known that he did not have explosives on his body because why in the hell would the shoot him in the torso then?

This cretin that hangs at the war room is a circle jerk. If he could find a way to blame Bush for the attacks in Egypt he would.

The Police must of known he did not have weapons because they shot him in the torso? WTF? Yeah, they should of capped him in the head, but cops are generally morons or they wouldn't be cops. The only smart cop I knew went off the force totally fed up with the crap. There are incredible problems with our police departments. It has nothing to do with the mess in Iraq.

The event is fairly well established by eye witnesses. I don't blame the cops for being jumpy. Do you want to be blown up?

[sirhcyennek81]

Half the time all the suicide bomber hears is...5,000 to your family if you carry this backpack. Israelis know about this. Organization itself rarely will use its own members, but use the destitute or impressionable to do it.

[ro_50]

quote:
We're lucky to not have a high arab population to make it easier for the terrorists to hide. We'd have to do the same thing, and it may well come to pass. Esp in a place like NY or Det where there is a higher % of pop of people from places like India and Pak.

Hey Bendog,

I would like some clarification on your comment. I'm a American but my parents were born in India, moved here in 1970 and I was born and raised in Alabama. I'm 25. I'm also proud of my Indian heritage as well as being a proud American.

I dont know what to make of your comment. What are you trying to say? Are you lumping people from India or Pakistan into these idiots that do this.

It seems your comment is a bit offensive to me and other Indians and Pakistans that live in this country and love this country. I hope I am just misunderstanding your comment.

[sirhcyennek81]

tired of the hyphen BS. the only people who are whatever-american are the people who come here from where ever. their children, are JUST American. There is a reason they came here, and it was not to stay where they were. anyways. carry on.

[Merlin]

So much for the moronic replies applauding the shoot now, ask questions later mentality. Not only was the guy not wearing suspicious clothing as originally suggested, his only crime thus far appears to be that he is dark (of Brazilian heritage). According to present reports he had absolutely nothing to do with the terrorist actions. But then again, judging by some of the bloodthirsty mentality that participates in these forums, I am sure the actions will be excused in some manner.

Merlin

[Spider]

So much for the moronic replies applauding the shoot now, ask questions later mentality. Not only was the guy not wearing suspicious clothing as originally suggested, his only crime thus far appears to be that he is dark (of Brazilian heritage). According to present reports he had absolutely nothing to do with the terrorist actions. But then again, judging by some of the bloodthirsty mentality that participates in these forums, I am sure the actions will be excused in some manner.

Merlin
I havent followed this case nor this story very close , So forgive me if what I know is out of date , or already been proved wrong .....
From what I understand is , this happened at the start of a terrorist attack , He was told to stop but he kept running ....Question is why ? He had lived in England for 3 years employed as a electrician , so he understands english ....
Nothing in his past that would make him run either .....
Maybe he was scared and was running no matter who was telling him to stop ..
an unfortunate accident , but as it stands right now hard to blame the police

[Bronco_Beerslug]

So much for the moronic replies applauding the shoot now, ask questions later mentality. Not only was the guy not wearing suspicious clothing as originally suggested, his only crime thus far appears to be that he is dark (of Brazilian heritage). According to present reports he had absolutely nothing to do with the terrorist actions. But then again, judging by some of the bloodthirsty mentality that participates in these forums, I am sure the actions will be excused in some manner.

Merlin
The man shot at the Stockwell subway station was identified as Jean Charles de Menezes, 27. Witnesses said he was wearing a heavy, padded coat when plainclothes police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso.

http://tinyurl.com/cdzb6

[watermock]

Yeah, jumping turnstiles in thick coats is normal behavior.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

So much for the moronic replies applauding the shoot now, ask questions later mentality. Not only was the guy not wearing suspicious clothing as originally suggested, his only crime thus far appears to be that he is dark (of Brazilian heritage). According to present reports he had absolutely nothing to do with the terrorist actions. But then again, judging by some of the bloodthirsty mentality that participates in these forums, I am sure the actions will be excused in some manner.

Merlin
And for the record I'm not applauding anything but expect authorities to do everything possible to protect innocent people. That's what I believe they did in this case.


Human rights activists said police were in an impossible position, with split seconds to take a life or death decision, but insisted on a full and independent inquiry.
http://tinyurl.com/78vjr

[Bronx33]

And for the record I'm not applauding anything but expect authorities to do everything possible to protect innocent people. That's what I believe they did in this case.

I fully agree.......sorry but they can't take anymore chance with these savages and maybe this will send a message.

[Spider]

And for the record I'm not applauding anything but expect authorities to do everything possible to protect innocent people. That's what I believe they did in this case.

I fully agree.......sorry but they can't take anymore chance with these savages and maybe this will send a message.
I doubt it sent a message , anyone that straps a bomb to themselfs to go kill innocent people generaly are not open to alot of Ideas , nor do they tend to think things out very well .... Kinda like Iraq , someone somewhere thought hey if we take Iraq , these terrorist wil say hey , these guys took Iraq wont mess with them ......
But the Police should do what they have to do to save people ... guy shouldnt have ran

[Bronx33]

I doubt it sent a message , anyone that straps a bomb to themselfs to go kill innocent people generaly are not open to alot of Ideas , nor do they tend to think things out very well .... Kinda like Iraq , someone somewhere thought hey if we take Iraq , these terrorist wil say hey , these guys took Iraq wont mess with them ......
But the Police should do what they have to do to save people ... guy shouldnt have ran


Well the chances of them being sucessful are a bit smaller and yes the guy shouldn't have ran (it cost him his life)

[Spider]

Well the chances of them being sucessful are a bit smaller and yes the guy shouldn't have ran (it cost him his life)
Thats true ..... Make it harder for these asswipres to pull this off is the way to go .... Personaly I think the guy was involved , just no link can be proved yet ..... I know it is an assumption on my part , but given the events , place , the situation , a normal person would have froze , if not ran twords the police for protection .....

[Merlin]

Have you guys even bothered seeing the picture of the guy?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/23/london.tube/index.html

How does that fit description of a thick coat?

[Bronx33]

Have you guys even bothered seeing the picture of the guy?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/23/london.tube/index.html

How does that fit description of a thick coat?

I think that was a different guy merlin they are still looking for that guy..

[Spider]

Have you guys even bothered seeing the picture of the guy?

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/23/london.tube/index.html

How does that fit description of a thick coat?
Thick enough ...... Besides even if it isnt thick enough for you , the guy never should have ran ...... you cant spin that away ......

[Bronx33]

Thats true ..... Make it harder for these asswipres to pull this off is the way to go .... Personaly I think the guy was involved , just no link can be proved yet ..... I know it is an assumption on my part , but given the events , place , the situation , a normal person would have froze , if not ran twords the police for protection .....

Exactly.....kinda weird your right but maybe the guy simply freaked out?

[Spider]

Exactly.....kinda weird your right but maybe the guy simply freaked out?
that could be .

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I think that was a different guy merlin they are still looking for that guy..


http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/world/0507/gallery.tube.suspects/01.ap.jpg

London police are asking the public for information on four men captured by closed-circuit cameras as they apparently left the scenes of Thursday's attempted bombings.

This man is seen running about 12:34 p.m. from the Northern line at the Oval Underground station, wearing a black top with "New York" printed on it. Police later found that top discarded. They believe this man rode the train from Stockwell, one station away, to the Oval -- where an explosive device was left in a car on a Northern line train.

[Merlin]

Thick enough ...... Besides even if it isnt thick enough for you , the guy never should have ran ...... you cant spin that away ......
If that is not the guy then I take it back about the clothing, but if is, then not it is not that thick. Also, running is not sufficient reason to use deadly force when they had already subdued him. The only spin going on here is justifying killing an innocent man after he was subdued.

Merlin

[elsid13]

If that is not the guy then I take it back about the clothing, but if is, then not it is not that thick. Also, running is not sufficient reason to use deadly force when they had already subdued him. The only spin going on here is justifying killing an innocent man after he was subdued.

Merlin


that a pic of the one of the four guys from the second incident.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If that is not the guy then I take it back about the clothing, but if is, then not it is not that thick. Also, running is not sufficient reason to use deadly force when they had already subdued him. The only spin going on here is justifying killing an innocent man after he was subdued.

Merlin
I see it differently. You're trying to spin it as police brutality. You weren't there, I wasn't either. He was repeatedly told to stop from all reports I've seen. He was running through the subways towards a train. Police have been told to shoot suspected suicide bombers in the head to sever the nervous system as quick as possible so they can't set off their explosives.

Sorry, no way possible to defend this guy who refused police orders to stop running.

[Spider]

If that is not the guy then I take it back about the clothing, but if is, then not it is not that thick. Also, running is not sufficient reason to use deadly force when they had already subdued him. The only spin going on here is justifying killing an innocent man after he was subdued.

Merlin
I see , so what if he did have a bomb ? thats what I thought ......
Look it is easy for us to sit here and be moral and righteous about what or we wouldnt do , cause we dont have ot make that decision ....
Chasing down a man that could have a bomb strapped to his ass thinking of 72 virgins , last thought that enters your mind is , this guy could be reasonable ...
He could have had somthing in his jacket that caused a bulged , so the cops decided , better him then Innocent people or us ......
Nothing changes the fact that guy never should have ran .....

[Merlin]

I see it differently. You're trying to spin it as police brutality. You weren't there, I wasn't either. He was repeatedly told to stop from all reports I've seen. He was running through the subways towards a train. Police have been told to shoot suspected suicide bombers in the head to sever the nervous system as quick as possible so they can't set off their explosives.

Sorry, no way possible to defend this guy who refused police orders to stop running.
Beerslug,

You are ignoring the eyewitness accounts that stated that he was subdued on the floor when the cop shot him 5 times. So is not a question of seeing it differently, but rather justifying the killing of an innocent person because of very questionable police action.

Merlin

[Merlin]

I see , so what if he did have a bomb ?
Shooting at a man with bombs strap into him would seem to be a rather risky proposition. But that is as close as a justification as one can reasonably make. As to why he ran, until is hard for any of us to know. But the point remains, according to witness accounts he was subdued on the floor and shot 5 times. A lot of questions, few answers, but way too many people who are jumping the gun to justify it (and I don't mean in this forum).

Merlin

[Bronx33]

If that is not the guy then I take it back about the clothing, but if is, then not it is not that thick. Also, running is not sufficient reason to use deadly force when they had already subdued him. The only spin going on here is justifying killing an innocent man after he was subdued.

Merlin

You were not there..plain and simple neither was it but cops don't shoot peeps like this for no reason so please hold your opinion till the facts come out.



Merlin

[Spider]

Shooting at a man with bombs strap into him would seem to be a rather risky proposition. But that is as close as a justification as one can reasonably make. As to why he ran, until is hard for any of us to know. But the point remains, according to witness accounts he was subdued on the floor and shot 5 times. A lot of questions, few answers, but way too many people who are jumping the gun to justify it (and I don't mean in this forum).

Merlin
Depends on the make up of the bomb .......

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Beerslug,

You are ignoring the eyewitness accounts that stated that he was subdued on the floor when the cop shot him 5 times. So is not a question of seeing it differently, but rather justifying the killing of an innocent person because of very questionable police action.

Merlin
I've read that. If he was completely subdued there might be a question. But I have a feeling he was resisting even though the police were trying to subdue him. One might have thought he was trying to set off some perceived explosives and shot him and the others followed.

They followed the guy from a house that was under surveillance. The guy didn't obey police of a country that has been attacked by terrorists TWICE in the last two weeks. I really don't think this was some kind of execution but police doing what they thought they had to do.

[W*GS]

Perhaps the British police need to have the NRA educate them on the legal and ethical aspects of the use of deadly force.

[Merlin]

I really don't think this was some kind of execution but police doing what they thought they had to do.
I should clarify myself. I am in total agreement that this was not an execution (not only would it be incredibly stupid, but I do believe the Brits [and us] are above that behavior). My concern is more about reactions to situations, both by the men and women who protect us, and by the public at large to such reactions. BTW Bronx 33, I do agree with you (and perhaps I overstated my case), at the moment none of us have a clear understanding of what transpired, which is why I find it troubling to see people jumping the gun (no pun intended) to justify the response (and again, perhaps I was too strong in my condemnation, we are lacking info at the moment).

Merlin

[Old Dude]

It would be interesting to know why the guy took off running in the first place. Of course, we'll never know now. Still sounds to me like one of the cops just panicked. From what I heard all 5 shots were fired by the same guy.

Another victory for the terrorists.

[Atlas]

It would be interesting to know why the guy took off running in the first place. Of course, we'll never know now. Still sounds to me like one of the cops just panicked. From what I heard all 5 shots were fired by the same guy.

Another victory for the terrorists.

He was at the same apartment the terrorist were at he took off running when the cops called him...call me skeptical.

[Old Dude]

He was at the same apartment the terrorist were at he took off running when the cops called him...call me skeptical.

What I read was that he emerged from a "block of apartments" that was under surveillance. That's not the same thing as "the same apartment" occupied by terrorist suspects. IOW, it sounds like he just lived in the same general apartment complex.

Reports do indicate he was wearing a coat that wasn't really appropriate for the weather, though.

British authorities have been pretty straighforward in stating that he had nothing to do with the terror suspects, though it still remains a mystery why he failed to comply with police orders.

[Old Dude]

I tried to get a few more facts about what actually happened in this situation, but details are still very sketchy.

Apparently, the cops had a "block of apartments" under surveillance because it was thought that one of the terror suspects had lived there. I did see the location on TV, and it is indeed a big apartment complex - - in fact, one big building that appeared to have a common entryway.

Mr. Menezes, an electrician, had been living in that building for some time, but not in the apartment that police were suspicious about. He was in a different unit.

When he came out the main entrance, he was wearing a "heavy jacket or coat" of some type, that was zipped up. This is what first made police suspicious.

The police were involved in an "undercover" operation, so presumably, they were not in uniform.

They followed Menezes to a bus. He then took the bus to a subway, which was apparently his normal routine - - ie the path he took every day to get to work. No attempt was made to contact or stop him up to that point, but here, things get fuzzy.

We know he was shot eight times, five times in the head (because police were afraid of setting of a bomb if he'd had one strapped to his chest.)

I suspect that police did order him to stop and probably had their weapons out, but it might simply be the case that he did not believe they were cops and did not comply or that he panicked, due to the fact that it happened very suddenly (from his perspective) and they probably did not look at all like police.

No indication whatsoever that this guy was working with the terrorists. He'd been in the country legally for three years and was sending monthly payments home to Brazil to help pay for his father's cancer teatments.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I tried to get a few more facts about what actually happened in this situation, but details are still very sketchy.

Apparently, the cops had a "block of apartments" under surveillance because it was thought that one of the terror suspects had lived there. I did see the location on TV, and it is indeed a big apartment complex - - in fact, one big building that appeared to have a common entryway.

Mr. Menezes, an electrician, had been living in that building for some time, but not in the apartment that police were suspicious about. He was in a different unit.

When he came out the main entrance, he was wearing a "heavy jacket or coat" of some type, that was zipped up. This is what first made police suspicious.

The police were involved in an "undercover" operation, so presumably, they were not in uniform.

They followed Menezes to a bus. He then took the bus to a subway, which was apparently his normal routine - - ie the path he took every day to get to work. No attempt was made to contact or stop him up to that point, but here, things get fuzzy.

We know he was shot eight times, five times in the head (because police were afraid of setting of a bomb if he'd had one strapped to his chest.)

I suspect that police did order him to stop and probably had their weapons out, but it might simply be the case that he did not believe they were cops and did not comply or that he panicked, due to the fact that it happened very suddenly (from his perspective) and they probably did not look at all like police.

No indication whatsoever that this guy was working with the terrorists. He'd been in the country legally for three years and was sending monthly payments home to Brazil to help pay for his father's cancer teatments.

Some question on whether he had a work visa or not. In a write up in a Brazilian paper his sister, I believe, commented he spoke perfect English and knew from experience in Rio that he would be shot if he ran from police.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Shooting at a man with bombs strap into him would seem to be a rather risky proposition. But that is as close as a justification as one can reasonably make. As to why he ran, until is hard for any of us to know. But the point remains, according to witness accounts he was subdued on the floor and shot 5 times. A lot of questions, few answers, but way too many people who are jumping the gun to justify it (and I don't mean in this forum).

Merlin
After the story below it appears Merlin may have had this one right. Looks like the London police lied all around about this. Especially the part about him running and jumping over stuff and the clothing he was wearing!

-------------------------------------------------------

Police shooting - the discrepancies
Leaked documents from the independent investigation into the shooting of a man whom police mistook for one of the London Tube bombers, suggest key differences between the original police and witness version of events and subsequent reports.

The documents reportedly form part of the probe by the Independent Police Complaints Commission, which is refusing to comment while its inquiry continues.

Here is a comparison of the details made public in the immediate aftermath of the shooting, on 22 July, at Stockwell Tube station in south London, with those that have emerged from the leaked documents.

Mr Menezes' final journey

IDENTIFICATION

Initial account
Sir Ian Blair said on the day of the shooting that it had been "directly linked to the ongoing and expanding anti-terrorist operation".

The man was under observation because he emerged from a block of flats in Scotia Road, Tulse Hill, where police believed a man connected with the four attempted bombings on the London Tube and bus network on 21 July was staying.

They followed him during his bus journey to Stockwell Tube station, where a Scotland Yard spokesman said his "clothing and behaviour" added to their suspicions.

Leaked evidence
Police staking out the flats, where Mr Menezes lived, decided he matched the description of one of the suspects they were seeking, according to the documents.

One officer reportedly said he "checked the photographs" and "thought it would be worth someone else having a look". However, he was unable to video the man for subsequent confirmation because he was "relieving" himself at the time.

By the time Mr Menezes reached Stockwell station, armed police received "positive identification" that the man they were following was one of the suspects.

CLOTHING

Initial account
One eyewitness, Mark Whitby, said Mr Menezes was wearing a thick padded jacket, despite the warm weather, which could have been used to conceal something underneath.

Another witness said he had a black baseball cap and blue fleece.

Scotland Yard had said on the day that his clothing had added to suspicions but had not elaborated further.
Leaked evidence
Some of the leaked documents and accompanying CCTV footage suggest Mr Menezes was wearing a blue denim jacket.

This is also referred to by a member of the police surveillance team who observed him on board a Tube train.

PURSUIT

Initial account
Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said after the shooting: "As I understand the situation the man was challenged and refused to obey police instructions."

One eyewitness said at the time that Mr Menezes had vaulted over the ticket barriers just inside the entrance to Stockwell station as he was being pursued.

Leaked evidence
CCTV footage is said to show the man walking at normal pace into the station, picking up a copy of a free newspaper and apparently passing through the barriers before descending the escalator to the platform and running to a train.

He boarded a Tube train, paused, looking left and right, and sat in a seat facing the platform.

The eyewitness has subsequently told a newspaper that the man he saw vaulting the barrier must have been a police officer.

THE SHOOTING

Initial account
Although police would not give details of the incident because of the independent investigation, they did say shortly after it happened that officers had shot a man dead in Stockwell station.

The following day Scotland Yard admitted Mr Menezes had been shot by mistake and apologised to his family for the "tragedy".

Met chief Sir Ian Blair said his officers had tried to get Mr Menezes under control before shooting him.

A witness spoke of a man jumping on to the stationary train and grabbing a man sitting opposite. As the witness ran off the train he heard four "dull bangs", which he realised were shots.

Another said he saw Mr Menezes run on to the train, "hotly pursued" by what he took to be three plain-clothes police officers. He said they pushed him to the floor and shot him five times.

At the opening of the inquest into his death, police told the coroner Mr Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder.
Leaked evidence
In one of the leaked documents, said to be a statement from one of the police surveillance team designated Hotel 3, the witness describes hearing shouting - including the word "police".

The statement says Mr Menezes stood up and advanced towards the witness and armed police.

He adds: "I grabbed the male in the denim jacket by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side."

He said he pushed the man back into his seat.

It was only after he had restrained him that he heard a gun shot.

The documents say that a post-mortem examination showed Mr Menezes had been shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but that three other bullets had missed him.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4158832.stm