Does Farve need to shut up?

[Jason in LA]

Farve has been calling out Jevon Walker for a couple of months now because Walker is holding out. I'm not going to argue that Walker is right for holding out, and I don't want this to turn into a debate about that. Lets just say that we all agree that players shouldn't holdout.

But I have a problem with Farve calling Walker out like that, or any other QB calling any player out for this. Hasselbeck (who was just taken care of with a big contract) called out Alexander a little while ago for his hold out. Alexander was a free agent that got franchise tagged. Hasselbeck never had to worry about that. The reason I have a problem with it is because QBs never have to worry about their contracts. They are always taken care of. I can't remember when a QB held out, or had to complain about being underpaid. Manning and Vick were still under contract and their team's took care of them. But for players in any other position, they are normally not taken care of. Holding out is wrong. But I can somewhat understand why players do it. Because QBs don't have to worry about holding out, and they'll always be taken care of, I think they should shut up about other players holding out. QBs don't have to worry about money, but the other players do.

I wouldn't have a problem with a non-QB calling these players out for holding out. If Donald Driver called Walker out I'd have no problem with it. Because Driver has to deal with the same crap that Walker has to deal with. If other players can deal with their contracts, then they have every right to call players out for holding out. But not QBs. They don't have to deal with a bad contract. They get taken care of then expect everybody else to play under contracts that isn't to their liking. I think that BS.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Yeah, Favre has already made his millions and his it made for life. So now he can sit back, skip the mini-camps and criticize teammates who want to make theirs.

[watermock]

No, Favre has never held out. Yeah, he's getting more than he's worth right now, but he played thru his rookie contract.

[Rausch]

Yeah, Favre has already made his millions and his it made for life. So now he can sit back, skip the mini-camps and criticize teammates who want to make theirs.

How many times did Favre hold out again?...

[RhymesayersDU]

I think Favre can say something, because he is the leader of the team, and is supposed to lead them to victory every Sunday. If he sees something going on that might hinder the team from winning, I think he is allowed to say something.

On the business side of things, however, you're right -- Good QB's are always coddled and taken care of, so they don't know what it's like to be another position.

[SoCalBronco]

I think Favre should shut his trap. I agree with Slug, he has made his millions, why is he interfering with the pocketbooks of a teammate? I dont have a problem with Walker holding out. If they end up having a hard time surviving without him, he deserves a raise. If they can survive without him, he doesnt deserve squat.

But Favre should shut the **** up. He isnt management. I cant believe he said "i hope they dont give it to him". Yeah thats going to make relations with your best WR really good isnt it.

[Jason in LA]

No, Favre has never held out. Yeah, he's getting more than he's worth right now, but he played thru his rookie contract.

Never said Favre did holdout. I pointed out that QBs don't need to holdout. Yeah, he played through his rookie contract. But like I pointed out, QBs don't have to worry about the money because they are always taken care of before their contracts are up. Farve probably was never at the point where he was about to become a free agent. He was probably always given a new deal when he had a year or two lift on the deal he was playing under.

[clarker]

How many times did Favre hold out again?...That is because in one contract he made enough money for his grandchildren's grandchildren to spend.

It is a bad idea, no matter what job you have, to talk about what your co-workers make or don't make.

[Spider]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/spiderinwy/yungbret.gif

[Billy Clyde Puckett]

I don't have a problem with Farve talking to Walker in a private conversation, but to conduct a debate though the papers will only make things worse.

[watermock]

WTF? Why do you even sign players to 5 year deals then? Look, your supposed to play out your rookie contract, or close then you b****. Walker is in his third year. You don't see Lelie screaming like a stuck pig.

I almost always agree with SoCal, but he should notice, he's totally wrong about this. It's fine if they want to hold out, that's their right. To have the Shark holding these players out is a giant gamble he thinks he can win. I don't think he's going to win.

He's going right down the Poston road, except he's smart enough to know when to fold. It's a game of texas hold em for now, but owners are fed up with his antics.

[FADERPROOF]

I think Favre should shut his trap. I agree with Slug, he has made his millions, why is he interfering with the pocketbooks of a teammate?

Because Favre wants him on the field for drills and training camp, something he won't do if he is holding out.

[SoCalBronco]

WTF? Why do you even sign players to 5 year deals then? Look, your supposed to play out your rookie contract, or close then you b****. Walker is in his third year. You don't see Lelie screaming like a stuck pig.

I almost always agree with SoCal, but he should notice, he's totally wrong about this. It's fine if they want to hold out, that's their right. To have the Shark holding these players out is a giant gamble he thinks he can win. I don't think he's going to win.

He's going right down the Poston road, except he's smart enough to know when to fold. It's a game of texas hold em for now, but owners are fed up with his antics.

I have no problem with them holding out, but i think they should only get a new deal if the team cannot survive without them. Even if they are a great player and have outperformed their contract, if the team can still survive without them than they dont deserve a new deal because there is no leverage. If the team cant survive without that single player than he is so important to them that he clearly deserves something new. Its not really about having a break out year to me. If the Pack can still go around 9-7 than Walker really isnt that important.

[Bronx33]

Honor the contact you signed..........

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I think Favre should shut his trap. I agree with Slug, he has made his millions, why is he interfering with the pocketbooks of a teammate? I dont have a problem with Walker holding out. If they end up having a hard time surviving without him, he deserves a raise. If they can survive without him, he doesnt deserve squat.

But Favre should shut the **** up. He isnt management. I cant believe he said "i hope they dont give it to him". Yeah thats going to make relations with your best WR really good isnt it.
Exactly! Why is Favre discussing this in the media? If he has a problem with Walker or any other player he should discuss it with THEM.
Just like SoCal says, if the team doesn't need him, let him sit and don't pay him.

But for those of you that haven't figured it out yet, Favre has been f**ked up ever since SA knocked the snot out of him in the SB.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Honor the contact you signed..........
Why? If the teams had to I'd agree but they don't.

[bendog]

It'd be interesting to know what year faver broke through and what contract year that was. He was a 2nd rd pick I think for Atl, then got traded in year 2 to GB.

[bronco militia]

they both need to shut the **** up....sure Favre is the team leader, but since when do team leaders comment on anyones contract status?

Hey Bret, shut the **** up and worry about your declining legacy errrrrrr...... Packers.

and Walker needs to shut the **** up too with comments like this:

(what a piece of ****!)

"Anybody can say, 'OK, he had a great year (in 2004), so let's see if he can do it again.' That's like trying to tell a person to go to war in Iraq, but let me see if you can go to war again and come back, and then we'll give you the Medal of Honor. You don't send a soldier out to a battlefield twice for him to (prove he is) consistent." –

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2097888&num=6

[Sir Mawn]

The problem with players holding out is it has put salaries WAY out of proportion. John Elway signed a 5 year 5million dollar contract 22 years ago that made HUGE headlines. Today, that's almost the vet minimum! And it's growing exponentially.

Players making 10 million dollars a season is downright absurd. But of course, human nature will cause a player to whine if he doesn't get what the other guys are getting even if he's already earning enough to be set for life!

Why, because for some players money has become the measuring stick in the NFL, not championships, not pro-bowls, not awards. Money.

They've allowed it to become an ego thing and it's pathetic.

[REB]

WTF? Why do you even sign players to 5 year deals then? Look, your supposed to play out your rookie contract, or close then you b****. Walker is in his third year. You don't see Lelie screaming like a stuck pig.

Wow I agree with Mock (on this)

So it WAS A 5 YR CONTRACT AND NOW IT'S A F^^K YOU? Nope I'm sorry but you are a greedy asswipe who doesn't give a **** about his team.

And as far as Favre goes....

Favre didn't ask for all the microphones in his face being asked the same question time after time. And god forbid he actually gives his own opinon and doesn't cater to the rest of the NFL the way some might like. Has he made millions? Yes and in this day of millions available in the NFL he got his share after playing 200+ games consecutively never holding out and will be in the HOF. So I don't know....you figure it out.

These newbies can claim their money after they have REALLY proven their worth. To bring up Farve with Walker is to me a non-negotiable point. One's a hall of famer the other is a newbie being led around like a dog.

I think it should also be noticed that Rosenhaus is representing all of these peeps. So you actually believe that he saved some kid from a pool? lol He actually risked his life in a shark infested ocean to save a child. ( At least that's what you'll hear soon")

Anyhow people under contract get your arse in camp and honor your contract and shut the hell up!

REB&Mrs. REB

1-2-3:Broncos:!!!!!!!!

[Breck Bronc]

The problem with players holding out is it has put salaries WAY out of proportion. John Elway signed a 5 year 5million dollar contract 22 years ago that made HUGE headlines. Today, that's almost the vet minimum! And it's growing exponentially.

Players making 10 million dollars a season is downright absurd. But of course, human nature will cause a player to whine if he doesn't get what the other guys are getting even if he's already earning enough to be set for life!

Why, because for some players money has become the measuring stick in the NFL, not championships, not pro-bowls, not awards. Money.

They've allowed it to become an ego thing and it's pathetic.The NFL has grown exponentially in 22 years as well. When league revenues go up player salaries should go up. The players are the attraction, after all. They're the best of the best and are paid that way.

[ØrangeÇrush]

Farve has been calling out Jevon Walker for a couple of months now because Walker is holding out. I'm not going to argue that Walker is right for holding out, and I don't want this to turn into a debate about that. Lets just say that we all agree that players shouldn't holdout.

But I have a problem with Farve calling Walker out like that, or any other QB calling any player out for this. Hasselbeck (who was just taken care of with a big contract) called out Alexander a little while ago for his hold out. Alexander was a free agent that got franchise tagged. Hasselbeck never had to worry about that. The reason I have a problem with it is because QBs never have to worry about their contracts. They are always taken care of. I can't remember when a QB held out, or had to complain about being underpaid. Manning and Vick were still under contract and their team's took care of them. But for players in any other position, they are normally not taken care of. Holding out is wrong. But I can somewhat understand why players do it. Because QBs don't have to worry about holding out, and they'll always be taken care of, I think they should shut up about other players holding out. QBs don't have to worry about money, but the other players do.

I wouldn't have a problem with a non-QB calling these players out for holding out. If Donald Driver called Walker out I'd have no problem with it. Because Driver has to deal with the same crap that Walker has to deal with. If other players can deal with their contracts, then they have every right to call players out for holding out. But not QBs. They don't have to deal with a bad contract. They get taken care of then expect everybody else to play under contracts that isn't to their liking. I think that BS.


I understand what you're saying, but Walker had that season last year because Favre pulled the trigger. What happens if Walker holds out, and favre just looks him off. What will walker do when he has a crappy year?

[sirhcyennek81]

I would listen when Favre speaks. If he is the reason i am a probowl player, then i'll do what he says.

[SoCalBronco]

I understand what you're saying, but Walker had that season last year because Favre pulled the trigger. What happens if Walker holds out, and favre just looks him off. What will walker do when he has a crappy year?

If Favre just looks him off and doesnt throw to him, than he is an idiot because the Packers will suffer. I am all for it though. I hope they go 0-16 and he retires so that he doesnt steal the Duke's wins record.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

they both need to shut the **** up....sure Favre is the team leader, but since when do team leaders comment on anyones contract status?

Hey Bret, shut the **** up and worry about your declining legacy errrrrrr...... Packers.

and Walker needs to shut the **** up too with comments like this:

(what a piece of ****!)

"Anybody can say, 'OK, he had a great year (in 2004), so let's see if he can do it again.' That's like trying to tell a person to go to war in Iraq, but let me see if you can go to war again and come back, and then we'll give you the Medal of Honor. You don't send a soldier out to a battlefield twice for him to (prove he is) consistent." –

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2097888&num=6
I agree with you 100%! When players start comparing themselves with soldiers and Jesus and start badmouthing their teammates who want more money, they all need to shut up.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

The problem with players holding out is it has put salaries WAY out of proportion. John Elway signed a 5 year 5million dollar contract 22 years ago that made HUGE headlines. Today, that's almost the vet minimum! And it's growing exponentially.

Players making 10 million dollars a season is downright absurd. But of course, human nature will cause a player to whine if he doesn't get what the other guys are getting even if he's already earning enough to be set for life!

Why, because for some players money has become the measuring stick in the NFL, not championships, not pro-bowls, not awards. Money.

They've allowed it to become an ego thing and it's pathetic.
The Teams and owners are 100% responsible for what we see today. You hear fans complaining about players holding out for more money but rarely hear them complaining when teams sh*t on the players. NFL teams don't honor contracts far more than players not honoring contracts.

[REB]

They went though at least 2 yrs. Are you telling me that they don't know a contract?

I'm sorry. Yea cracka your a big deal but guess what? You singend a contract like anybody that I or anybody would hire... Deal with it.

REB

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!!

[SoCalBronco]

They went though at least 2 yrs. Are you telling me that they don't know a contract?

I'm sorry. Yea cracka your a big deal but guess what? You singend a contract like anybody that I or anybody would hire... Deal with it.

REB

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!!

But it isnt a contract though, REB. What kind of contract allows one side to get out scot free whenever they please and prohibit the other from doing so?
One might say, okay, but you signed the contract KNOWING these are how NFL contracts are. Okay, but if we are going to bring the reality into the situation and not just rely on the "honor what you signed" in the total abstract, than we also bring in the reality that front offices know that holdouts happen all the time. Since its forseeable that it can also happen to you, you should prepare by getting the best depth you can and dont whine when someone refuses to report to camp. Front offices can neither make the purely abstract argument that its a contract that should be honored because we wont allow people to talk out of both sides of their mouth when they cut the guy before its done. Nor can they bring in the reality of NFL contracts because you have to deal with all the reality not just a piece of it.

Again, I HATE IT WHEN IT HAPPENS TO US. Thankfully we dont have anyone represented by the Postons and only 1 player represented by Rosenhaus but he shouldnt be a problem. But in terms of general principle, i cant fault people for holding out. Many of these guys dont have anything in life to offer besides football. They didnt take their education seriously when they got a free scholarship to a university. Many of them didnt fully utilize the benefit of their classes and didnt work on their skills, so this is all they have. They have to get every dollar they can. Thats what I would do. Thats what you would do. I want every dollar i can get.

[REB]

Alot of what you say is true but....

But it isnt a contract though, REB. What kind of contract allows one side to get out scot free whenever they please and prohibit the other from doing so?

Uuuummm is somebody reading the contract? Whichever side!? Somebody read the goddamn contract! Please!

And once agreed upon the said peeps will sign agreeing to the terms of/in the above contract.

The players will lose and the salary cap will make sure of that


REB

[REB]

The wifes home and it's time to win at poker....

will respond after if possible....

REB

1-2-3-:Broncos:!!!!!!!

[FADERPROOF]

Nobody will tell Favre to shut up, with the career he has had at least.

This isn't the back-up RT talking about it, it's a first ballot HOF quarterback that has meant as much to the Packers as any player has to their team.

He can comment on anything, especially when it comes to the very own players that he throws the ball to.

[TheReverend]

I dont think the argument here is if Favre should shut the **** up or not. I think he should have said something... but NOT to the media. What ever happened to calling Javon personally and having a one-on-one instead of bitching to reporters?

[16-JakE-16]

Does Farve need to shut up?

No.


Favre made Walker. Plain and simple.

[El Guapo]

I think players that hold out need to be suspended... nothing wrong with what favre has done.

[Jason in LA]

I'd say Farve needs to shut up because he doesn't have to worry about this type of situation. All other position players do. Farve has probably never seen the end of a contract. When ever a QB that's worth keeping around gets towards the end of his contract the team will always take care of him. If it's a 5 year contract the team will give him a new one during year 4. That doesn't happen with players from other positions.

Like I said in the past that started this thread, if it was Donald Driver, who plays the same position and is just as good as Walker, had made these statements I could understand. Driver has to deal with the same crap that Walker has to. But Farve doesn't have to deal with that crap, so who is he to talk? Farve doesn't have to worry about being taken care of, or making what he's worth. The other players do. That doesn't mean I agree with the hold out. I just don't want to hear any QB complaining about it because they don't have to worry about it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

I think players that hold out need to be suspended... nothing wrong with what favre has done.
OK, lets start suspending the teams that don't live up to their end of player contracts too. It's only fair right?

[FADERPROOF]

OK, lets start suspending the teams that don't live up to their end of player contracts too. It's only fair right?

If you've ever been employed before, you should know that there is no such thing as fair when it comes to employers and employees.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

If you've ever been employed before, you should know that there is no such thing as fair when it comes to employers and employees.
But when it comes to contracts, a contract is a contract, right? Well, no, not in the NFL. It's a understood fact that teams don't live up to their end of player contracts and players have the right to renegotiate contracts.
Now if the NFL wanted to start guaranteeing contracts like the NBA and MLB this problem would go away.

EDIT: And having been employed before :) I knew exactly what my rights and responsibilities were along with what managements rights and responsibilities were (having worked under collective bargaining contracts for almost 30 years).

[SoCalBronco]

If you've ever been employed before, you should know that there is no such thing as fair when it comes to employers and employees.

If thats the case than th employer shouldnt complain that its unfair for the employee to disregard the contract.

[Jason in LA]

The owners should have to buy the players out when the cut them. When a coach is fired before his contract is up he still has to be paid off. Why isn't it the same for players?

[RhymesayersDU]

What I don't get about this all is, the NFL has a player's union just like the MLB, NBA, or NHL. They could, I assume, go on strike, have a lock-out, etc, just like the other sports.

Why haven't the players demanded guaranteed contracts like the other big sports? I don't know much about this type of thing, and only really started paying attention to bargaining agreements recently with the NHL lockout and the recent threat of an NBA lockout, so somebody enlighten me.

[FADERPROOF]

If thats the case than th employer shouldnt complain that its unfair for the employee to disregard the contract.

They will, and they have the authority to fire your ass.

Go up to your boss and tell him that you're not coming in until you get a higher salary, see what happens.

[FADERPROOF]

But when it comes to contracts, a contract is a contract, right? Well, no, not in the NFL. It's a understood fact that teams don't live up to their end of player contracts and players have the right to renegotiate contracts.
Now if the NFL wanted to start guaranteeing contracts like the NBA and MLB this problem would go away.

EDIT: And having been employed before :) I knew exactly what my rights and responsibilities were along with what managements rights and responsibilities were (having worked under collective bargaining contracts for almost 30 years).

A contract is a contract, and the NFL has their own players union that has agreed to the terms of NFL franchises having the ability to bow out of the current contracts without buying them out first.

Its what was agreed upon, and it may suck but the owners are not doing anything illegal or shady considering this is what they shook hands on.

[Sir Mawn]

What kind of contract allows one side to get out scot free whenever they please and prohibit the other from doing so?

I'm glad you haven't had to face them, but the truth of the matter is that they exist in many industries, especially ones related to entertainment.

And of course the employee has the option to hold out. The question is, do you have the leverage to hold out? Who, for example, holds out in the music business? Madonna and Coldplay do, but you don't see The String Cheese Incident, Tom McRae or (Insert lame, middle of the road, hip hop act here) doing it.

Same with players. Does Javon Walker have the leverage? The Packers will decide. In the end it's an issue with two sides.

The problem I have with it though, is that players many times don't hold out for the right reasons (a real need for money or when they are legitimately being underpaid) but instead they'll do it because it's become the measuring stick: "it's not how many rings I have or how many pro-bowls I've made, the bottom line is that I'm the highest paid player in the position."

That's what's driving many sports down the drain.

[SoCalBronco]

A contract is a contract, and the NFL has their own players union that has agreed to the terms of NFL franchises having the ability to bow out of the current contracts without buying them out first.

Its what was agreed upon, and it may suck but the owners are not doing anything illegal or shady considering this is what they shook hands on.

Yes, this is correct DF, however it was also impliedly agreed upon that players can hold out as well since there is no punishment for it besides simply not getting paid. So Front Offices cant b****.

Its all about leverage to me. Everything will come down to leverage.

[Sir Mawn]

What people many times fail to realize is that a team is also at risk when they offer a rookie contract. If the player is a complete bust, they still paid him several million dollars over the first couple of years. In exchange for that risk, it is expected that the player honors his/her rookie contract.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

A contract is a contract, and the NFL has their own players union that has agreed to the terms of NFL franchises having the ability to bow out of the current contracts without buying them out first.

Its what was agreed upon, and it may suck but the owners are not doing anything illegal or shady considering this is what they shook hands on.
That's right, nor are the players when they holdout for more money.

[RhymesayersDU]

There will never be a right or wrong answer to this argument, it will always go in circles.

However, IMO, they should just switch to guaranteed contracts. I think both sides could benefit. The players could get paid, and be guaranteed their money, and the organization will get the benefit of having a player they can count on, to be there, to be a part of a team, for all the years specified in the contract.

It'll never happen, but I think it could be beneficial to everybody.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Favre is being roasted on 'The Best Damn Sports Show' right now. Every one of them telling him to shut up, that the press isn't the place for him to criticize any player for holding out.

[FADERPROOF]

Yes, this is correct DF, however it was also impliedly agreed upon that players can hold out as well since there is no punishment for it besides simply not getting paid. So Front Offices cant b****.

Its all about leverage to me. Everything will come down to leverage.

Yes, it's about leverage and the owners have most/all of it.

Players holdout all they want, but their curent contract is the one they'll only get out of if the owners are willing to give them a new contract. Holding out does not guarantee a new contract, but owners voiding players contracts via release is a guarantee.

Philadelphia is a prime example, holdouts can occur there but don't expect a new contract. They'll find you a new place, or they'll cut you, but the contract you signed to become a Philadelphia Eagle is the one you'll honor until the front office decides otherwise. Meanwhile, they can also turn around and tell you that you're making too much, and you have the choice of A.) restructuring your contract for less money, or B.) turn down the restructuring and get released in hopes of finding a new team that'll give you a nice big contract.

That is some serious leverage, and leverage that the NFL players union gave the franchise's front office.

[SoCalBronco]

Yes, it's about leverage and the owners have most/all of it.

Players holdout all they want, but their curent contract is the one they'll only get out of if the owners are willing to give them a new contract. Holding out does not guarantee a new contract, but owners voiding players contracts via release is a guarantee.

Philadelphia is a prime example, holdouts can occur there but don't expect a new contract. They'll find you a new place, or they'll cut you, but the contract you signed to become a Philadelphia Eagle is the one you'll honor until the front office decides otherwise. Meanwhile, they can also turn around and tell you that you're making too much, and you have the choice of A.) restructuring your contract for less money, or B.) turn down the restructuring and get released in hopes of finding a new team that'll give you a nice big contract.

That is some serious leverage, and leverage that the NFL players union gave the franchise's front office.

I think leverage is really more on an individual case by case basis. Interesting your brought up the Eagles. Yeah, they have a history of not taking ****, but i actually think TO has alot more leverage than people think.

If its Week 6 and they are 3-3, primarily because of a really mediocre passing game, and TO is still holding out, does he not have leverage? I dont care whether the Eagles havent given in before. They are 3-3. Their mediocre. They are already pretty damn close to losing home field if they only lose 1 more out of the next 10. You dont think thats leverage. How bout if they get to 3-4, Joe Banner and Andy Reid are panicking no matter what face they put on in public. The Office is in full panic mode.
That's leverage. They WILL cave in. But the thing is, to determine leverage we have to wait to see whether their offense will still suck without him and even if it does, can the defense pick up the slack to still give them a good record.

Its all on a case by case basis and it requires each of these guys making noise in the offseason to hold out well into the regular season. If they want to hold out, be prepared do it for at least a month into the season before you see whether or not its likely the team will cave in.

[DarkHorse30]

I understand what you're saying, but Walker had that season last year because Favre pulled the trigger. What happens if Walker holds out, and favre just looks him off. What will walker do when he has a crappy year?

Don't buy this one. Farv is a fan favorite, but he is just as likely to throw 20 ints per year as Plummer is....even with better WRs. It's just the nature of a scrambling QB. FTR, Elway also threw plenty of ints.....but was better at getting out of the messes he created. I remember one gawd-awful year he threw a pick for a TD in 4 consecutive games.

That said, Farv should shut his trap. He has never had to fight for his due, like Walker is having to fight. Hands down Walker is a difference-maker on the Packers...and with the division getting demonstrably better in the next few years, Farv might find those playoff appearances dwindling.....especially if he pisses off a WR that could go anywhere and make twice the money he is getting right now.

[DBroncos4life]

Walker has every right to hold out, BUT Farve has every right to call him out. Farve has more then earned his right to call someone out for missing anything.

[DBroncos4life]

Ahman Green isn't happy with his contract but he's in camp. I don't think hes paid like a top back either.

[yavoon]

Ahman Green isn't happy with his contract but he's in camp. I don't think hes paid like a top back either.

he can still go on fumbilitis runs.

[watermock]

Here is the bottom line. Favre is fed up with this clown being made a puppet by the Shark. Yes, Favre is probably overpaid at this point in his career, but hes PAID HIS DUES. He has never held out. However, Favre himself wouldn't say he's perfect. Of course he's frustrated, his #1 passing target is holding out in what could be his last run. The fact of the matter is that a signing bonus is for FUTURE PERFORMANCE...it's not stick candy. That's why many contracts are minimum salary, it's all put in the signing bonus. When an agent brings up a players salary, they always conveniently forget the signing bonus, yet it's the number one issue when they negotiate one.

Walker isn't some 4th round all pro, he was signed a first rounder, and paid as such. He's had one good year, and I doubt he would of without Favre. As a Viking fan, I could care less, I don't see the Packers as a threat, I fear Mooch in Detroit far more at this point, but the idea you can just walk away from a contract is up to the player. THEY SIGNED IT. What part of this don't you understand?

[fontaine]

I call bullsh*t on this thread.

Favre has every right to speak his mind BECAUSE the media asked for his opinion.

It wasn't as if he was out there and setup a press conference JUST to say Walker shouldn't hold out.

The subject came up, a reporter asked the question and Favre never said anything about money and whatnot.

ALL he said was that Walker needs to be in camp to help out his team and that was the truth. What was he supposed to say? We don't care about Walker and it doesn't matter if he's or not?

Hell, Andy Reid said pretty much the same thing. He said the team will move on but TO should be in camp!

It's the media that keeps raising up the topic with Favre and not the other way around. You ask and the guy gives his opinion.

If Javon Walker and TO can go to all these football shows and harp on about being "underpaid" and comparing themselves to Jesus and only wanting to take care of their families then why can't another NFL player express a different viewpoint?

You people act like you'd be completely diplomatic and not hurt anyones feelings if asked an honest question about your opinion on a matter.

Sorry but, if an a$$head like TO can go on the Jim Rome show and compare himself to Jesus, all the while begging for another contract after the ink had barely dried on his last one last year, with his pimp agent's nose firmly entrenched in TO's buttocks, then Favre or any other player that isn't holding out or never held out has a right to present the other side of the story.

[watermock]

Exactly. He isn't being paid as a coal miner.

You could certainly argue his agent is a Gold Digger tho. Or ass kisser.

I don't think the Shark sucks salty balls, but he has to have a technique that turns these realatively "delete" athletes to fall into the net.

[fontaine]

The Teams and owners are 100% responsible for what we see today. You hear fans complaining about players holding out for more money but rarely hear them complaining when teams sh*t on the players. NFL teams don't honor contracts far more than players not honoring contracts.


Bullsh*t.

Yes teams don't honor contracts if a player underperforms or is too old or gets injured.

But there are literally dozens of players every year that just got off signing a great deal but get injured, don't perform, or get arrested and can't play but do they give back the money?

Every team and player that agree on a contract KNOW that the ONLY guaranteed part of the contract is the signing bonus and after that all is fair game and you kick the other guy squarely in the nuts.

It's not as if this system was forced down on the players. It was part of the collective bargaining agreement / Salary cap etc and both sides know that. If players don't like it then they pull a Ricky and get smoked up. If teams don't like it then they can be like Bidwell and take care of "bidness" buy being cheap and running the franchise into the ground.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think he should be louder about it....people wouldn't know who Walker is if not for Favre. But I hope the Packers don't cave and Walker stays out......it'll teach him a tough lesson....and that is that he can be replaced.

[OrangeShadow]

Farves perfectly on point,hes never held out for more money once. I cant satnd players who hold out for money its ludacris. you signed the mother****in contract PLAY!

[-Slap-]

Favre is being roasted on 'The Best Damn Sports Show' right now. Every one of them telling him to shut up, that the press isn't the place for him to criticize any player for holding out.
Wow, if that think tank is coming out against him, he must surely be wrong. I would hate to face the intellectual wrath of genuises like John Salley, Michael Irvin and John Kruk. That's almost 200 combined IQ points.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Wow, if that think tank is coming out against him, he must surely be wrong. I would hate to face the intellectual wrath of genuises like John Salley, Michael Irvin and John Kruk. That's almost 200 combined IQ points.
:) Actually, it was Dibble, Salley, Chris Rose and Rodney Peete. Pretty good show really. They had Pete Rose on last night. Pete was a pretty good interview, talking about Palmerio making the Hall, who the Yankees need, Schilling and a few other things.

[DrFate]

It is a bad idea, no matter what job you have, to talk about what your co-workers make or don't make.

Farve isn't talking about a co-worker. He is talking about a teamate. His teamate is hurting the team, so as team letter and veteran he speaks up. I say we need more like him.

Folks, the system works like this: You sign a rookie deal. You play through that deal and then you become a free agent. Your team can give you a long-term deal or let you walk. The loophole is the franchise - they give you a 1-year deal for the average of the top 5 at your position. End of story.

Owens wants more money. Walker wants more money. Portis wanted more money. I don't see how the team can say 'oh, Ok Javon; we'll cut 6 veterans to give you more money since we DO have a salary cap'. Then you have 52 other guys lining up asking for re-do's on their contracts. Won't Donald Driver want more money? Won't Ahman Green? I am sure there is a special teams guy who feels he is underpaid...

This isn't a pay-for-play league. If it were everyone would make a base salary and everything else would be incentive based. But I can guarantee you the union wouldn't go for that.

I applaud Farve for speaking about a player hurting his team.

[DrFate]

That's leverage. They WILL cave in. But the thing is, to determine leverage we have to wait to see whether their offense will still suck without him and even if it does, can the defense pick up the slack to still give them a good record.

There is zero chance Philly caves on this. Owens will either play his current deal out or be traded. I hate to disagree with SoCal, but this just won't happen. As soon as they do TO's contract they'll have to re-do McNabb's or Westbrook's or Aker's or somebody. It just never ends. The difference between Owens and Walker is that Walker is playing in his rookie contract. So he has more room to be unhappy. But the system is designed for the rookie contracts to be a little low (because teams are taking the risk). I still say hurray Farve for being a man.

[bronco militia]

I call bullsh*t on this thread.

Favre has every right to speak his mind BECAUSE the media asked for his opinion.

It wasn't as if he was out there and setup a press conference JUST to say Walker shouldn't hold out.

The subject came up, a reporter asked the question and Favre never said anything about money and whatnot.

ALL he said was that Walker needs to be in camp to help out his team and that was the truth. What was he supposed to say? We don't care about Walker and it doesn't matter if he's or not?

Hell, Andy Reid said pretty much the same thing. He said the team will move on but TO should be in camp!

It's the media that keeps raising up the topic with Favre and not the other way around. You ask and the guy gives his opinion.

If Javon Walker and TO can go to all these football shows and harp on about being "underpaid" and comparing themselves to Jesus and only wanting to take care of their families then why can't another NFL player express a different viewpoint?

You people act like you'd be completely diplomatic and not hurt anyones feelings if asked an honest question about your opinion on a matter.

Sorry but, if an a$$head like TO can go on the Jim Rome show and compare himself to Jesus, all the while begging for another contract after the ink had barely dried on his last one last year, with his pimp agent's nose firmly entrenched in TO's buttocks, then Favre or any other player that isn't holding out or never held out has a right to present the other side of the story.

I think you totally missed the point about this thread.

[rbackfactory80]

I think Favre should shut his trap. I agree with Slug, he has made his millions, why is he interfering with the pocketbooks of a teammate? I dont have a problem with Walker holding out. If they end up having a hard time surviving without him, he deserves a raise. If they can survive without him, he doesnt deserve squat.

But Favre should shut the **** up. He isnt management. I cant believe he said "i hope they dont give it to him". Yeah thats going to make relations with your best WR really good isnt it.

Cmon, the kid is twenty something years old, he had one good year. Holding out after one good year is a bitch move.

[MajikMan7]

Favre is a moron. Walker earned a new salary, now pay the man. If Favre is such a team guy lets see him work for the vet. minimum.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Cmon, the kid is twenty something years old, he had one good year. Holding out after one good year is a b**** move.
That's debatable. He only started 3 games in 2003 and caught 9 TDs.
Caught 12 last year. This is his 4th year. If he deserves more than the 500 grand he's due this year they will pay him. If he isn't that important to the team he'll sit.

[FADERPROOF]

I think leverage is really more on an individual case by case basis. Interesting your brought up the Eagles. Yeah, they have a history of not taking ****, but i actually think TO has alot more leverage than people think.

If its Week 6 and they are 3-3, primarily because of a really mediocre passing game, and TO is still holding out, does he not have leverage? I dont care whether the Eagles havent given in before. They are 3-3. Their mediocre. They are already pretty damn close to losing home field if they only lose 1 more out of the next 10. You dont think thats leverage. How bout if they get to 3-4, Joe Banner and Andy Reid are panicking no matter what face they put on in public. The Office is in full panic mode.
That's leverage. They WILL cave in. But the thing is, to determine leverage we have to wait to see whether their offense will still suck without him and even if it does, can the defense pick up the slack to still give them a good record.

Its all on a case by case basis and it requires each of these guys making noise in the offseason to hold out well into the regular season. If they want to hold out, be prepared do it for at least a month into the season before you see whether or not its likely the team will cave in.

Ok, so in the case of superastar players that are top 3 at their position, they have some leverage.

So how about if Philly starts out 6-1 without T.O.? Mr. Superstar have leverage now? McNabb and the Eagles have been to 4 straight NFC title games without T.O., and last year made the Super Bowl without him, maybe Owens should take that into consideration.

And Walker is hardly a top 3 WR, especially with Bubba Frankss, Donald Driver, and Nick Ferguson as the other receivers for Favre to throw to. GB should tell him to go stick it and watch Driver and Ferguson gain over 1,000 receiving yards instead of Walker, they're interchangable and how good of a season the Packers have will not depend on if Walker is playing or not.

[bendog]

gd pt. GB is capped out,a nd wr is not a need position. Bad front office.

[SoCalBronco]

Ok, so in the case of superastar players that are top 3 at their position, they have some leverage.

So how about if Philly starts out 6-1 without T.O.? Mr. Superstar have leverage now? McNabb and the Eagles have been to 4 straight NFC title games without T.O., and last year made the Super Bowl without him, maybe Owens should take that into consideration.

And Walker is hardly a top 3 QB, especially with Bubba Frankss, Donald Driver, and Nick Ferguson as the other receivers for Favre to throw to. GB should tell him to go stick it and watch Driver and Ferguson gain over 1,000 receiving yards instead of Walker, they're interchangable and how good of a season the Packers have will not depend on if Walker is playing or not.

Well if they are 6-1, than he has zero leverage and must report back to the team, i agree. Yes, the Eagles have made it far without him before, but we have to see whether that will continue. I am simply saying if its shown that they cannot do much better than .500 without him early on, they are going to start caving in. I dont think there is going to be some big trade in the middle of the season. The Eagles would want alot and some other teams who have guys who are really producing, they arent going to give them away in the middle of the season, esp. when they know Philly is struggling and needs to do something.

[Bronco LB 59]

Favre is a moron. Walker earned a new salary, now pay the man. If Favre is such a team guy lets see him work for the vet. minimum.


Walker hasn't earned anything. Walker has one good season in the NFL. Big deal! Walker was a former first round pick who got paid like a Pro Bowl player the first day he stepped on the field because of potential. Did the Packers ask for their signing bonus money back when he played like a rookie in 2002? Walker has only had one Pro Bowl caliber season and he wants to get paid like a top 5 WR. Give me a break!

[DBroncos4life]

Brett can say whatever he wants about HIS team. If this was Elway talking to one of his WR's we would all agree with him because hes EARNED the right to voice his opinion about HIS team.

[bendog]

Walker hasn't earned anything. Walker has one good season in the NFL. Big deal! Walker was a former first round pick who got paid like a Pro Bowl player the first day he stepped on the field because of potential. Did the Packers ask for their signing bonus money back when he played like a rookie in 2002 and 2003? Walker has only had one good season and he wants to get paid like a top 5 WR. Give me a break!
Pretty much my take. I can't see the rationale of people like bronco militia (no offense and not to single you out) that walker should get what he deserves. The guy didn't produce for two years. IF he puts up back to back seasons .....

It's different from a guy like TD. He was UNDERPAID. Similary Sonic. However, sonic hadn't proven he was year in year out one of the top 3 rbs. He just wanted to be overpaid.

[watermock]

That's debatable. He only started 3 games in 2003 and caught 9 TDs.
Caught 12 last year. This is his 4th year. If he deserves more than the 500 grand he's due this year they will pay him. If he isn't that important to the team he'll sit.

You sound like an agent. Your discounting his signing bonus completely. He signed a 10 million bonus before he caught a pass. So he caught 12 TD's last year from Favre, isn't that why they drafted him in the first round in the first place?

Noone "Screwed over Javon Walker". Bottom line is he doen't want to live up to a contract that has two full years left on it.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

You sound like an agent. Your discounting his signing bonus completely. He signed a 10 million bonus before he caught a pass. So he caught 12 TD's last year from Favre, isn't that why they drafted him in the first round in the first place?

Noone "Screwed over Javon Walker". Bottom line is he doen't want to live up to a contract that has two full years left on it.
No one said anyone was screwing him. All I'm saying is that it's understood in the NFL, without guaranteed contracts, both the teams and players have the right NOT to honor their contracts.

And to the other post about Elway. Here's one difference between Favre and Elway... Elway may indeed have been pissed if his No 1 receiver decided to hold out for more money but you and I wouldn't have heard about it from comments he made to the press.

[rbackfactory80]

I am sick and tired of these guys holding out after having one significant season. He has no right to hold out and if they give in to him it will only get worse. These guys get paid enough money, especially high draft picks so they can play for a while and when there contract becomes an issue and if they have worked out as planned then they will get paid. He is just a good wide reciever and to say he is top 3 is insane.

[-Slap-]

Well if they are 6-1, than he has zero leverage and must report back to the team, i agree. Yes, the Eagles have made it far without him before, but we have to see whether that will continue. I am simply saying if its shown that they cannot do much better than .500 without him early on, they are going to start caving in. I dont think there is going to be some big trade in the middle of the season. The Eagles would want alot and some other teams who have guys who are really producing, they arent going to give them away in the middle of the season, esp. when they know Philly is struggling and needs to do something.

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Andy Reid to cave in to anybody.

[kappys]

If this is really so offensive then the Packers shouldn't let him play. Bottom line is that the team has ALL of the leverage.

Screw the fans, screw the reporters. Make Javon sit on his ass and get lazy for 2 years with $0 coming in, and then let him see what he's done to chances of getting a big payday after that. The Pack has the leverage, but teams usually don't have the balls to use it.

[Broncoman13]

Favre is one of my 3 favorite players of all time. He has always been one to tell it like it is and has been through a lot in his career and overcome all of the obstacles in his way. That being said, I don't think he needs to be at the forefront of this issue. He should have just said that he needs to get his butt to camp and help his team out... nothing else necessary. He went overboard with his comments. I do agree with him on one point though, why the hell should he call Rosenhaus? Favre is a gamer but he shouldn't get involved with any other players money.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Apparently, the Eagles can start fining TO $9,500 a day and make him pay back $1.9 million if he doesn't show up for camp. So as usual, management has the upper hand but will they actually do that?

Probably some similiar language in Walker's contract? It's up to the teams to decide to give these guys a raise or not. They could set the tone anytime they wanted to.

[Jason in LA]

Here is the bottom line. Favre is fed up with this clown being made a puppet by the Shark. Yes, Favre is probably overpaid at this point in his career, but hes PAID HIS DUES. He has never held out. However, Favre himself wouldn't say he's perfect. Of course he's frustrated, his #1 passing target is holding out in what could be his last run. The fact of the matter is that a signing bonus is for FUTURE PERFORMANCE...it's not stick candy. That's why many contracts are minimum salary, it's all put in the signing bonus. When an agent brings up a players salary, they always conveniently forget the signing bonus, yet it's the number one issue when they negotiate one.

Walker isn't some 4th round all pro, he was signed a first rounder, and paid as such. He's had one good year, and I doubt he would of without Favre. As a Viking fan, I could care less, I don't see the Packers as a threat, I fear Mooch in Detroit far more at this point, but the idea you can just walk away from a contract is up to the player. THEY SIGNED IT. What part of this don't you understand?

Mock, you've seemed to miss a point a few times. QBs don't hold out because they don't have to. Farve has never been in a position where he had to hold out, or complain for more money. That's the reason I have a problem with him running his mouth. I'm not arguing whether Walker is right or wrong. I just don't like seeing players, who don't have to worry about their contracts, get in the business of players who do have to worry about their contracts. The QB is the only position that is always taken care of. When was the last QB to hold out? I can't think of any. Farve doesn't have to fight for his money. Any QB worth keeping around doesn't have to fight for his money. But other players do. So Farve shouldn't be speaking out about a problem that he doesn't have to worry about.