War causes terrorist

[elsid13]

In multpart due to the server

Study cites seeds of terror in Iraq
War radicalized most, probes find
By Bryan Bender, Globe Staff | July 17, 2005

WASHINGTON -- New investigations by the Saudi Arabian government and an Israeli think tank -- both of which painstakingly analyzed the backgrounds and motivations of hundreds of foreigners entering Iraq to fight the United States -- have found that the vast majority of these foreign fighters are not former terrorists and became radicalized by the war itself.

The studies, which together constitute the most detailed picture available of foreign fighters, cast serious doubt on President Bush's claim that those responsible for some of the worst violence are terrorists who seized on the opportunity to make Iraq the ''central front" in a battle against the United States.

''The terrorists know that the outcome [in Iraq] will leave them emboldened or defeated," Bush said in his nationally televised address on the war at Fort Bragg in North Carolina last month. ''So they are waging a campaign of murder and destruction." The US military is fighting the terrorists in Iraq, he repeated this month, ''so we do not have to face them here at home."

However, interrogations of nearly 300 Saudis captured while trying to sneak into Iraq and case studies of more than three dozen others who blew themselves up in suicide attacks show that most were heeding the calls from clerics and activists to drive infidels out of Arab land, according to a study by Saudi investigator Nawaf Obaid, a US-trained analyst who was commissioned by the Saudi government and given access to Saudi officials and intelligence.

A separate Israeli analysis of 154 foreign fighters compiled by a leading terrorism researcher found that despite the presence of some senior Al Qaeda operatives who are organizing the volunteers, ''the vast majority of [non-Iraqi] Arabs killed in Iraq have never taken part in any terrorist activity prior to their arrival in Iraq."

''Only a few were involved in past Islamic insurgencies in Afghanistan, Bosnia, or Chechnya," the Israeli study says. Out of the 154 fighters analyzed, only a handful had past associations with terrorism, including six who had fathers who fought the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, said the report, compiled by the Global Research in International Affairs Center in Herzliya, Israel.

American intelligence officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, and terrorism specialists paint a similar portrait of the suicide bombers wreaking havoc in Iraq: Prior to the Iraq war, they were not Islamic extremists seeking to attack the United States, as Al Qaeda did four years ago, but are part of a new generation of terrorists responding to calls to defend their fellow Muslims from ''crusaders" and ''infidels."

[elsid13]

''The president is right that Iraq is a main front in the war on terrorism, but this is a front we created," said Peter Bergen, a terrorism specialist at the nonpartisan New America Foundation, a Washington think tank.

Foreign militants make up only a small percentage of the insurgents fighting in Iraq, as little as 10 percent, according to US military and intelligence officials. The top general in Iraq said late last month that about 600 foreign fighters have been captured or killed by coalition forces since the Jan. 30 Iraqi elections. The wider insurgency, numbering in the tens of thousands, is believed to consist of former Iraqi soldiers, Saddam Hussein loyalists, and members of Iraq's Sunni Muslim minority.

But the impact of the foreign fighters has been enormous. They are blamed for the almost daily suicide attacks against US and Iraqi forces and have killed thousands of civilians, mostly members of Iraq's Shia Muslim majority. Their exploits have been responsible for much of the headline-grabbing carnage recently, contributing to the slide in American public support for the war.

There have been nearly 500 car bombings since the US-led coalition handed over sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government one year ago, US military statistics indicate. In the last two months, car bombs and suicide attacks have killed nearly 1,400 people, according to the Associated Press.

Bush has cited foreign fighters as a reason for continued US military operations in Iraq. His argument, repeated often, is that ''the world's terrorists" have chosen to make their stand in Iraq.

''Some may disagree with my decision to remove Saddam Hussein from power, but all of us can agree that the world's terrorists have now made Iraq a central front in the war on terror," Bush said in a radio address last month.

[elsid13]

Foreign fighters were found to be like Saud Bin Muhammad Bin Saud Al-Fuhaid, according to Obaid's research, to be published by the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington this summer. Described as in his early 20s, Fuhaid blew himself up March 24, three days after he entered Iraq from Syria, according to newspaper accounts and interviews with his family.

Obaid found little evidence Fuhaid was an extremist before the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Like many of the young men from Saudi Arabia who make up the majority of the foreign fighters, the student at Imam University in western Riyadh was not initially a radical jihadist, according to information gleaned from Saudi newspaper accounts and intelligence operations. In fact, he apparently almost changed his mind.

Fuhaid is believed to have traveled through Syria to fight in Iraq, but once he arrived told his family he would be coming home instead, according to a death notice published in Saudi newspapers and posted on the Internet. ''However, during that time he met some friends of his who were going to Iraq and told him they were going to declare Jihad with their brothers in Iraq," the celebratory announcement said. ''It was at that moment that our martyr changed his mind and told them that he will go back to Iraq with them and called his parents to tell him he won't be going home."

Obaid said in an interview from London that his Saudi study found that ''the largest group is young kids who saw the images [of the war] on TV and are reading the stuff on the Internet. Or they see the name of a cousin on the list or a guy who belongs to their tribe, and they feel a responsibility to go."

Other fighters, who are coming to Iraq from across the Middle East and North Africa, are older, in their late 20s or 30s, and have families, according to the two investigations. ''The vast majority of them had nothing to do with Al Qaeda before Sept. 11th and have nothing to do with Al Qaeda today," said Reuven Paz, author of the Israeli study. ''I am not sure the American public is really aware of the enormous influence of the war in Iraq, not just on Islamists but the entire Arab world."

Case studies of foreign fighters indicated they considered the Iraq war an attack on the Muslim religion and Arab culture, Paz said.

For example, while the unprovoked attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, were largely condemned by clerics as violations of Muslim law, many religious leaders in Saudi Arabia and other Arab nations have promulgated fatwas, or religious edicts, saying that waging jihad in Iraq is justified by the Koran because it is defensive in nature. Last October, 26 clerics in Saudi Arabia said it was the duty of every Muslim to go and fight in Iraq.

''These are people who did not get training in Pakistan or Chechnya, [and they] ended up going to Iraq because they considered defending Iraq a must for every Muslim to go and fight," said Rita Katz, director of the Search for International Terrorist Entities Institute in Washington and an Iraq native.

[elsid13]

One indication that a heightened degree of Arab solidarity is a leading factor is that they are almost entirely Arabs and not Muslims from other countries, such as those who volunteered to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya. Another motivation, the studies and analysts contend, is the centuries-old struggle between the Sunni and Shia branches of Islam. All the foreign fighters are Sunnis, according to the analyses, and many of their targets are Iraq's majority Shia Muslims, who have gained political power in Baghdad for the first time in hundreds of years.

Ali Alyami, director of the Center for Democracy and Human Rights in Saudi Arabia, said he believes the deep-seated Sunni-Shia rift among the world's 1.2 billion Muslims -- about 1 billion of them Sunni -- best explains the foreign-fighter phenomenon. He noted in an interview that US policy makers do not seem to grasp the historic conflicts within Islam that are playing out in the war in Iraq.

''To say we must fight them in Baghdad so we don't have to fight them in Boston implies there is a finite number of people, and if you pen them up in Iraq you can kill them all," said Bergen. ''The truth is we increased the pool by what we did in Iraq."

Intelligence officials worry that some of ''Iraq alumni" will use the relationships they build on the battlefields of Iraq and return to their home countries as hardened Islamic terrorists.

The CIA's National Intelligence Council concluded in a report earlier this year that ''Iraq and other possible conflicts in the future could provide recruitment, training grounds, technical skills, and language proficiency for a new class of terrorists who are 'professionalized' and for whom political violence becomes an end in itself."

Bryan Bender can be reached at bender@globe.com.

[Meck77]

Does anyone remember when Saddam invaded Kuwait and started shooting missles at Israel?

We didn't start this war. We went to protect an ally and have been in trouble since. IMO we should have let them defend themselves in the first place and we would have never been in this mess.

This is when the problem started. THE FIRST GULF WAR.

[elsid13]

I posting this thread to start dicussion and point out that it never as simple as black and white. Two things that I think are interesting in this article are: the great use the internet to spread information and motivate individuals and the internal Sunni and Shia conflict that is also problem.

[errand]

So elsid13, tell us....

What war created -

.....the Iranians that took 40 something Americans hostage in '79?

....the terrorists who hijacked the Achille Laurel and murdered an American in a freaking wheelchair.

....the terrorists who blew up the Marine barracks in Beirut in '83 killing not only 300 marines but a few of my close and personal friends

....the terrorists who blew up the WTC in '93?

.....the Khobar Towers?

....the USS Cole?

....the US embassies in Africa?

....the dragging of US soldiers corpses thru the streets of Mogadishu?

And of course the WTC and pentagon being destroyed by three hijacked planes?

What war caused those terrorists, clown?

These clowns declared war on us years ago......perhaps even decades ago. You idiots on the left have never realized this.

Now, I'm not saying your stupid....but, wouldn't you have to be?

[Meck77]

I posting this thread to start dicussion and point out that it never as simple as black and white. Two things that I think are interesting in this article are: the great use the internet to spread information and motivate individuals and the internal Sunni and Shia conflict that is also problem.

I posting this thread to start dicussion and point out that it never as simple as black and white. Two things that I think are interesting in this article are: the great use the internet to spread information and motivate individuals and the internal Sunni and Shia conflict that is also problem.


Oh I fully agree. Bin Laden is a master of it. This is exerpt is from his declaration of war on us. You'll see that he references the war in Palestine first, the Iraq and other wars were Arabs have been killed. Everyone focuses on the second gulf war but Bin Laden was threatening to kill Americans long ago. I just find it interesting that we blame America for the radicalism going on. Nobody seems to want to point the finger at the terrorist leaders anymore.


http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
It should not be hidden from you that the people of Islam had suffered from aggression, iniquity and injustice imposed on them by the Zionist-Crusaders alliance and their collaborators; to the extent that the Muslims blood became the cheapest and their wealth as loot in the hands of the enemies. Their blood was spilled in Palestine and Iraq. The horrifying pictures of the massacre of Qana, in Lebanon are still fresh in our memory. Massacres in Tajakestan, Burma, Cashmere, Assam, Philippine, Fatani, Ogadin, Somalia, Erithria, Chechnia and in Bosnia-Herzegovina took place, massacres that send shivers in the body and shake the conscience. All of this and the world watch and hear, and not only didn't respond to these atrocities, but also with a clear conspiracy between the USA and its' allies and under the cover of the iniquitous United Nations, the dispossessed people were even prevented from obtaining arms to defend themselves.

Take a second to read this.
This was written by Bin Laden and Zawahiri back in 1998. That was seven years ago and they have been backing it up since then.

http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/docs/980223-fatwa.htm

[errand]

Does anyone remember when Saddam invaded Kuwait and started shooting missles at Israel?

We didn't start this war. We went to protect an ally and have been in trouble since. IMO we should have let them defend themselves in the first place and we would have never been in this mess.

This is when the problem started. THE FIRST GULF WAR.

...and I suppose we should have told Britain and the rest of Europe that Hitler was their problem? And I suppose they should have told us that Tojo was ours?

Like it or not, we are the world's only super power....and with that title comes responsibility. If we don't whack the clowns that get out of line, then the next thing you know we're surrounded by them.

We could easily eliminate alot of these terrorists by leveling the entire mid east, afterall other than oil, and terror what have they contributed to the world?

[Meck77]

...and I suppose we should have told Britain and the rest of Europe that Hitler was their problem? And I suppose they should have told us that Tojo was ours?

Like it or not, we are the world's only super power....and with that title comes responsibility. If we don't whack the clowns that get out of line, then the next thing you know we're surrounded by them.

We could easily eliminate alot of these terrorists by leveling the entire mid east, afterall other than oil, and terror what have they contributed to the world?


Well the difference with Hitler is those other countries could not defend themselves. No need to tell me about Hitler. He had a bunker less than 1 mile from where my dad grew up. Infact my dads first pair of boots came from a dead German. My ole man is 80 years old now and spent time in 2 concentration camps after fighting the nazi and communist front. Anyway........

Israel could have handled Saddam. Instead our blood was spilled instead of theirs. Why? Well it's very simple. If Israel would have started launching missles back at Iraq we know damn well this would have united the Arab nations. By sending in guys from Tennessee to die it was less threatening to the Arab Nations (initially). In comes Bin Laden and his war declaration on America who ties in all the wars we have had with Muslims and you have where we are today. July 2005 a cluster****.

You have guys like LA Broncos fan who can't seem to understand the chain of events that have gotten us here and it isn't going to get better.

Idiots have been blowing eachother up over there for a long time and 9-11 was their way of dragging us into this war. It worked. Infact Bin Laden says that is one of the primary reasons he attacked.

This is a world war and it may infact end up with the leveling of the Middle East with the rest of us to follow. Meanwhile while we American's bicker amongst ourselves the enemy is planning the next attack.

What I don't understand about this forum is everyone blames this situation on our presidents. For the record one last time. AMERICA is a pawn in this middle east war.

We'll all be flying our American flags on our cars and having more memorials soon enough.

Feel free to bash my take but my take is from Bin Laden's perspective. Before him the terrorits weren't united. I'm just trying to put some perspective on why our enemy hates us and the hate has been buiding for decades not years.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

Like it or not, we are the world's only super power....and with that title comes responsibility. If we don't whack the clowns that get out of line, then the next thing you know we're surrounded by them.

We could easily eliminate alot of these terrorists by leveling the entire mid east, afterall other than oil, and terror what have they contributed to the world?


:hitself: Do you have any access to the outside world from your cave? Maybe it's the backwoods water there in your vicinity?

[errand]

:hitself: Do you have any access to the outside world from your cave? Maybe it's the backwoods water there in your vicinity?


...and do you have acess to anything from the confines of your mom's basement?

Look, perhaps you always let the bully take your lunch money, but there's quite a few of us who didn't let him have his way.

You leftists had better get on board with this war against Islamic terrorists, because you guys are gonna be the first ones they come after if they take over the US.

[elsid13]

So elsid13, tell us....

What war created -

.....the Iranians that took 40 something Americans hostage in '79?

....the terrorists who hijacked the Achille Laurel and murdered an American in a freaking wheelchair.

....the terrorists who blew up the Marine barracks in Beirut in '83 killing not only 300 marines but a few of my close and personal friends

....the terrorists who blew up the WTC in '93?

.....the Khobar Towers?

....the USS Cole?

....the US embassies in Africa?

....the dragging of US soldiers corpses thru the streets of Mogadishu?

And of course the WTC and pentagon being destroyed by three hijacked planes?

What war caused those terrorists, clown?

These clowns declared war on us years ago......perhaps even decades ago. You idiots on the left have never realized this.

Now, I'm not saying your stupid....but, wouldn't you have to be?


Thanks for personally attacking me and not reading the story or my response to Meck77. I realize that the beasts have declared war a long time ago. I remember the bombing in Berlin in the 80s and the US bombing of Libya in response. I lived in Europe at the time, when we were told not to tell folks that we’re Americans. And to this day that still pisses me off.

I remember seeing the East Block countries and USSR treatment of their citizens and thanking God that I lived in the US and that I always seek to protect those rights that made our country great and push those freedom and ideals to everyone in the world.

I’m thankful for the fact that my meeting was reschedule from 9:00 Sept 11 to Sept 15 or my boss, my coworkers and myself would have been at the Pentagon. I hate really, really good Errand, and I don’t forget. I will never forgive the beasts. So next time you make statement about me being a clown think twice and realize that I understand real well about this stuff and impact it has both on nation and individuals.

By the way I supported the removal of Saddam and jack ass in North Korea, but I continue to be annoyed at the lack of execution management shown by the current political leadership.

[errand]

Well the difference with Hitler is those other countries could not defend themselves. No need to tell me about Hitler. He had a bunker less than 1 mile from where my dad grew up. Infact my dads first pair of boots came from a dead German. My ole man is 80 years old now and spent time in 2 concentration camps after fighting the nazi and communist front. Anyway........

Israel could have handled Saddam. Instead our blood was spilled instead of theirs. Why? Well it's very simple. If Israel would have started launching missles back at Iraq we know damn well this would have united the Arab nations. By sending in guys from Tennessee to die it was less threatening to the Arab Nations (initially). In comes Bin Laden and his war declaration on America who ties in all the wars we have had with Muslims and you have where we are today. July 2005 a cluster****.

You have guys like LA Broncos fan who can't seem to understand the chain of events that have gotten us here and it isn't going to get better.

Idiots have been blowing eachother up over there for a long time and 9-11 was their way of dragging us into this war. It worked. Infact Bin Laden says that is one of the primary reasons he attacked.

This is a world war and it may infact end up with the leveling of the Middle East with the rest of us to follow. Meanwhile while we American's bicker amongst ourselves the enemy is planning the next attack.

What I don't understand about this forum is everyone blames this situation on our presidents. For the record one last time. AMERICA is a pawn in this middle east war.

We'll all be flying our American flags on our cars and having more memorials soon enough.

Feel free to bash my take but my take is from Bin Laden's perspective. Before him the terrorits weren't united. I'm just trying to put some perspective on why our enemy hates us and the hate has been buiding for decades not years.

Well, I'm glad we don't have to tell you there is evil in the world, and you should know damn good and well, that for evil to prosper, all it takes is the inaction of good men.

Perhaps instead of seeing things thru a murderous person's perspective, you should see things for what they are.....radical Islam isn't going to go away until you beat the will to fight out of them.

[Meck77]

Thanks for personally attacking me and not reading the story or my response to Meck77. I realize that the beasts have declared war a long time ago. I remember the bombing in Berlin in the 80s and the US bombing of Libya in response. I lived in Europe at the time, when we were told not to tell folks that we’re Americans. And to this day that still pisses me off.

I remember seeing the East Block countries and USSR treatment of their citizens and thanking God that I lived in the US and that I always seek to protect those rights that made our country great and push those freedom and ideals to everyone in the world.

I’m thankful for the fact that my meeting was reschedule from 9:00 Sept 11 to Sept 15 or my boss, my coworkers and myself would have been at the Pentagon. I hate really, really good Errand, and I don’t forget. I will never forgive the beasts. So next time you make statement about me being a clown think twice and realize that I understand real well about this stuff and impact it has both on nation and individuals.

By the way I supported the removal of Saddam and jack ass in North Korea, but I continue to be annoyed at the lack of execution management shown by the current political leadership.

Yet you started a thread suggesting that the war in Iraq is spreading terrorism. Take a look at who the experts are that make this claim in the article you posted. It supports my claim that we are a pawn in this war doesn't it? Israel has distanced themselves from this second gulf war now as if they have nothing to do with it yet they basically threatened the world that if they didn't get some help during the first world war they would Nuke the arab nations. It's plain as day in the article you posted elsid13. Now you have the Israeli "Think Tank" saying "We have nothing to do with this it's the American's that are spreading terrorism".

IT'S WRITTEN IN THE ARTICLE YOU POSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on guys. Open your eyes here. We are fighting a war we were drug into and now we have blood on our hands. Our nation is under attack now and our country is devided. For what? Why?

ASK YOURSELVES WHY THIS ALL HAPPENED? It isn't the idiot Bush either. Think a little deaper folks. Look back at the history of the region. Ask yourselves when did the instability there set in and you will find why there is a global war on terror now.

[errand]

Thanks for personally attacking me and not reading the story or my response to Meck77. I realize that the beasts have declared war a long time ago. I remember the bombing in Berlin in the 80s and the US bombing of Libya in response. I lived in Europe at the time, when we were told not to tell folks that we’re Americans. And to this day that still pisses me off.

I remember seeing the East Block countries and USSR treatment of their citizens and thanking God that I lived in the US and that I always seek to protect those rights that made our country great and push those freedom and ideals to everyone in the world.

I’m thankful for the fact that my meeting was reschedule from 9:00 Sept 11 to Sept 15 or my boss, my coworkers and myself would have been at the Pentagon. I hate really, really good Errand, and I don’t forget. I will never forgive the beasts. So next time you make statement about me being a clown think twice and realize that I understand real well about this stuff and impact it has both on nation and individuals.

By the way I supported the removal of Saddam and jack ass in North Korea, but I continue to be annoyed at the lack of execution management shown by the current political leadership.

Bottom line.....your post was that the war on terror is what caused terrorists....which is code-speak for "it's America's fault"....or even more on the left's agenda, "it's Bush's fault".

For one who claims to hate and have a long memory, you sure are quick to wonder what culpability this great nation has in the attacks perpetrated by terrorists. You sound like a person who would blame a rape victim for wearing a bikini on the beach she's raped on.

These guys murder innocent men, women, and children.....they don't care who they kill as long as they forward their agenda. And they will not stop killing until someone steps up to the plate and knocks their freaking blocks off.

[Bronco_Beerslug]

...and do you have acess to anything from the confines of your mom's basement?

Look, perhaps you always let the bully take your lunch money, but there's quite a few of us who didn't let him have his way.

You leftists had better get on board with this war against Islamic terrorists, because you guys are gonna be the first ones they come after if they take over the US.

Since you can't grasp what's happening in the world these days it's a waste of time to even respond to your uneducated and ignorant rants. But just for your info the terrorists aren't confined to one area in one country. They are multiplying in many countries throughout the world. Why is that? Aren't we winning the war on terror? Bush says we are but could he (and the growing MINORITY of supporters) possibly be wrong?

[Spider]

Well the difference with Hitler is those other countries could not defend themselves. No need to tell me about Hitler. He had a bunker less than 1 mile from where my dad grew up. Infact my dads first pair of boots came from a dead German. My ole man is 80 years old now and spent time in 2 concentration camps after fighting the nazi and communist front. Anyway........
In the other thread Talking about Elizabeth Forsling , your Dad falls into that strength I was talking about Meck .......... Pure admiration .....

Israel could have handled Saddam. Instead our blood was spilled instead of theirs. Why? Well it's very simple. If Israel would have started launching missles back at Iraq we know damn well this would have united the Arab nations. By sending in guys from Tennessee to die it was less threatening to the Arab Nations (initially). In comes Bin Laden and his war declaration on America who ties in all the wars we have had with Muslims and you have where we are today. July 2005 a cluster****.
LOL . this is errand no need to try and talk sense , it does no good .......

You have guys like LA Broncos fan who can't seem to understand the chain of events that have gotten us here and it isn't going to get better.
Thats true , I am still convienced going into Afghanistan is one of the reasons Al Qadea cant pull off major attacks anymore , though I wish we would have nailed Bin Ladin , that would have sent a clear powerfull message .....

Idiots have been blowing eachother up over there for a long time and 9-11 was their way of dragging us into this war. It worked. Infact Bin Laden says that is one of the primary reasons he attacked.
well if you take a look at alot of the terrorist attacks now , while the #'s have increased in the attacks they are less sophisticated .......

This is a world war and it may infact end up with the leveling of the Middle East with the rest of us to follow. Meanwhile while we American's bicker amongst ourselves the enemy is planning the next attack.
Thats our strength , while we bicker Ideas and plans get hatched , both sides will come up with a point that we can act on ........

What I don't understand about this forum is everyone blames this situation on our presidents. For the record one last time. AMERICA is a pawn in this middle east war. Partison politics with most , then we get into defending our guy .......

We'll all be flying our American flags on our cars and having more memorials soon enough.
I dont know ........ I dont think there will be , granted it was 8 years inbetween attacks here in America 93 -2001 , I do think we dealt a severe blow to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan , almost a crippling blow .........

Feel free to bash my take but my take is from Bin Laden's perspective. Before him the terrorits weren't united. I'm just trying to put some perspective on why our enemy hates us and the hate has been buiding for decades not years.
there was a time when America was tight with the M.E. ......

[elsid13]

Bottom line.....your post was that the war on terror is what caused terrorists....which is code-speak for "it's America's fault"....or even more on the left's agenda, "it's Bush's fault".

For one who claims to hate and have a long memory, you sure are quick to wonder what culpability this great nation has in the attacks perpetrated by terrorists. You sound like a person who would blame a rape victim for wearing a bikini on the beach she's raped on.

These guys murder innocent men, women, and children.....they don't care who they kill as long as they forward their agenda. And they will not stop killing until someone steps up to the plate and knocks their freaking blocks off.


I don't speak in code words, you need to get over Rush and rest of that media garbage. Force will be important, but there other things that need to done to remove this threat. One,- most of the individuals that make up the ranks and file of the groups are disfranchise, both politically and economically we need to address that problem. Two, we continue to fail to present a message to the populations that US is not the colonial power like France and Great Britian. Third we need to provide alternative agenda to Arab street. What are your solution to the problem.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

Good article, Elsid.

The article confirms what studies by the Pentagon and the C.I.A. have already told us, yet Bush lemmings like errand and Meck continue to cover the dry drunk's flank.

Unreal.

[L.A. BRONCOS FAN]

So elsid13, tell us....

What war created -

.....the Iranians that took 40 something Americans hostage in '79?

The clandestine C.I.A. campaign to oust Iran's leader and to install the Shah.

....the terrorists who hijacked the Achille Laurel and murdered an American in a freaking wheelchair.

....the terrorists who blew up the Marine barracks in Beirut in '83 killing not only 300 marines but a few of my close and personal friends

....the terrorists who blew up the WTC in '93?

.....the Khobar Towers?

....the USS Cole?

....the US embassies in Africa?

....the dragging of US soldiers corpses thru the streets of Mogadishu?


And of course the WTC and pentagon being destroyed by three hijacked planes?

All blowback from Saint Ron's and Poppy's imperialistic and exploitive Middle East policies.

BTW, moron, why did you leave out the part about Reagan and Bush arming Saddam? Why did you leave out the part about Reagan and Bush recruiting and training Osama Bin Laden and the "freedom fighters" who eventually became al Qaeda? Why did you leave out the part about Reagan and Bush selling stinger missles to Iran to finance an illegal war in South America - and how they tried to cover it up?