Which three are better?

[WoodMan]

Just a little pre-football fun. Which trio is the better of the two. Brees, Tomlinson and Gates or Green, Priest and Gonzo. I'll choose the former based on age alone.

[NaptownChief]

I'd take Tomlinson over Priest, Gonzo over Gates and Green over Brees thus giving the Chiefs trio the nod as of this moment but if you factor in age and assume that Gates isn't a one hit wonder then the Bolts trio for long term would get the nod.

[Atlas]

I'll take Bell, Plummer and Putz..... ok I'm a homer

[gunns]

The first 3. Definitely. Brees had the same amount of TD's as Green, 10 less INT's and no one was very close to the 32 sacks Green accomplished. I'd take Tomlinson any day over Holmes and Gates, if he keeps on pace will out play Gonzo. There's always an excuse for why Gonzo didn't achieve something.

[crazyhorse]

The first 3. Definitely. Brees had the same amount of TD's as Green, 10 less INT's and no one was very close to the 32 sacks Green accomplished. I'd take Tomlinson any day over Holmes and Gates, if he keeps on pace will out play Gonzo. There's always an excuse for why Gonzo didn't achieve something.

What was it Gonzo didn't achieve?

[NaptownChief]

What was it Gonzo didn't achieve?


I guess he needs an excuse for leading the NFL in catches last season. ???

[Tredici]

I guess he needs an excuse for leading the NFL in catches last season. ???


WOOT WOOT WOOT

More of those individual stat accolades!!!!!

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Brees has had one good season. Same with Gates. The Chiefs trio is more proven.

[NaptownChief]

WOOT WOOT WOOT

More of those individual stat accolades!!!!!



WOOT WOOT WOOT....More of that Donkey fan ignorance.

[Tredici]

WOOT WOOT WOOT....More of that Donkey fan ignorance.

Not at all. And that weak of comeback doesn't get you any stats, either.

[crazyhorse]

Not at all. And that weak of comeback doesn't get you any stats, either.

On the contrary. Your stat reference was weak. In a comparison of individual stats, Gonzo would run away with it.

If you are saying that Gates does more for his team, and has done more for his team than has Gonzo, just say it. I mean, isn't that what you are implying?

[Tredici]

Might as well go with Brady, Dillon and Graham. Another funny stat. Graham only has about a third of those incredible reception stats but made it to the endzone the same number of times Gonzo did. Now that's production that counts for something.

Like a ring.

[Tredici]

On the contrary. Your stat reference was weak. In a comparison of individual stats, Gonzo would run away with it.

If you are saying that Gates does more for his team, and has done more for his team than has Gonzo, just say it. I mean, isn't that what you are implying?


I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that Chef fans are in love with individual player stats.

Well, ya gotta go with what ya got.

[NaptownChief]

Might as well go with Manning, James and Clark and end the discussion.

[crazyhorse]

Might as well go with Brady, Dillon and Graham. Another funny stat. Graham only has about a third of those incredible reception stats but made it to the endzone the same number of times Gonzo did. Now that's production that counts for something.

Like a ring.

Are you saying that Gonzo is not "productive"?

[crazyhorse]

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that Chef fans are in love with individual player stats.

Well, ya gotta go with what ya got.

Well that was a fairly gutless comeback.

No one here is sitting back claiming individual stats are the single thing in which players are judged. However, when you ask a question about 3 individuals, individual accomplishments may come up. Are you saying that stats are not a way to guage a players production?

[crazyhorse]

Might as well go with Manning, James and Clark and end the discussion.

Clarks individual stat of 25 catches is not an indicater of his skill level. The overall production of the offense is the only way to guage such things. Individual stats are self serving at best. With that in mind, Clark has to be the favorite. The Colts had the best passing game in the biz last season.

Making Dallas Clark the best TE in the national football league.

Right Tred?!

[crazyhorse]

Might as well go with Brady, Dillon and Graham. Another funny stat. Graham only has about a third of those incredible reception stats but made it to the endzone the same number of times Gonzo did. Now that's production that counts for something.

Like a ring.

hypocrite

[watermock]

How amusing. Tell me exactly what this has to do even remotely with the Broncos. How about this...we will let you know which sucks worse after we kick both their respective asses. Boo-Yah! :militia:

[crazyhorse]

How amusing. Tell me exactly what this has to do even remotely with the Broncos. How about this...we will let you know which sucks worse after we kick both their respective asses. Boo-Yah! :militia:

meow

[watermock]

My cat can kick your cat's ass. With gloves.

http://thumb6.webshots.com/s/thumb3/9/13/56/209791356XDWFzm_th.jpg

This is a screen shot of him taking out the Doberman. Well, it's not a doberman, but it's no mouse.

[gunns]

I guess he needs an excuse for leading the NFL in catches last season. ???

Calm down Chiefies, I'm not saying he isn't good, possibly the best but I do believe the Chiefs have hampered him. Every year there's an excuse as to why he didn't get the receptions, if he misses a ball it's so and so's fault, I don't believe the Chiefs put him in a position to succeed. Last year he was tops in receptions yet he had 3 less TD's that the previous year when he had 30 less receptions. San Diego who is in the same situation of not having great receivers used Gates to potential, he achieved 20 less receptions than Gonzo but 6 more TD's. Yeah I'll take the guy that has been given the chance to succeed to potential and done it.

[gunns]

Brees has had one good season. Same with Gates. The Chiefs trio is more proven.

How are they more proven? In the time that each have been in KC they've accomplished the same amount of winning seasons as the other 3 in SD and gotten exactly the same amount of playoff wins. Proven, how?

[Bronco9798]

I'll take Bell, Plummer and Putz..... ok I'm a homer

Me Too!!!

[Tredici]

Are you saying that Gonzo is not "productive"?

It depends on what you want out of a player's productivity. Gonzo catches over a hundred and finds paydirt 7 times. Graham catches 30 and finds paydirt 7 times.

In that context having a bunch of receptions isn't all that.

Seems pretty straight forward.

Spin away.

[Merlin]

It depends on what you want out of a player's productivity. Gonzo catches over a hundred and finds paydirt 7 times. Graham catches 30 and finds paydirt 7 times. In that context having a bunch of receptions isn't all that.
I'll take 100 catches with 7 TDs over 30 catches with 9 TDs (yes I know it's more) any day. Tred, are you seriously suggesting that the extra 70 catches in a year are inconsequential to a team's performance (well in the case of KC yes ;) )?

Merlin

[Bob's your Information Minister]

How are they more proven? In the time that each have been in KC they've accomplished the same amount of winning seasons as the other 3 in SD and gotten exactly the same amount of playoff wins. Proven, how?

C'mon. Trent, Gonzo and Priest have been raping defenses for years. They are proven. Just because the defense sucks and the teams have gone nowhere does not mean they are proven. Randy Moss has never "proven" anything according to you.

[gunns]

C'mon. Trent, Gonzo and Priest have been raping defenses for years. They are proven. Just because the defense sucks and the teams have gone nowhere does not mean they are proven. Randy Moss has never "proven" anything according to you.

That's right about Moss. What exactly has he proven? Not saying that I wouldn't want a receiver on my team with his ability, oh wait, we have Rod Smith, never mind.

In 2003 you guys had the 19th ranked defense as far as pts allowed. Now I've heard this year if you can get to be the 15th ranked D you'll have it sewn up. That's only 4 position difference yet you still didn't get it done and only blew out losing teams. So they've been raping losing teams? Ok

[Tredici]

I'll take 100 catches with 7 TDs over 30 catches with 9 TDs (yes I know it's more) any day. Tred, are you seriously suggesting that the extra 70 catches in a year are inconsequential to a team's performance (well in the case of KC yes ;) )?

Merlin

Funny. I haven't suggested anything. Chef fan was quick to jump in with measuring Gonzo's worth by blowharding about his league leading reception total.

All I'm doing is pointing out stats is stats is stats. They can mean whatever you want them to.

The point is, what is consequential and what isn't? It all has to be in the context of the game. That's why I find getting all pumped up over some guy's individual stats to be an elusive way to define that player.

Prolific doesn't absolutely equal productive.

[Rocket 7]

John Elway, Terrell Davis, and Shannon Sharpe greatest trio ever............EVER!!!

[Rausch]

That's right about Moss. What exactly has he proven? Not saying that I wouldn't want a receiver on my team with his ability, oh wait, we have Rod Smith, never mind.



I'll give Rod his due and and point out he was one of the best WR's of the 90's. I'd even argue top 10.

But to compare raw talent, putting Smith in the same sentence as Moss is just stupid. I shows you have no clue what you're talking about.

Moss will never be as good an overall WR as Rod, but Rod will never approach the talent Moss has either...

[Rausch]

John Elway, Terrell Davis, and Shannon Sharpe greatest trio ever............EVER!!!

You didn't watch football in the 80's, did you?

[gunns]

I'll give Rod his due and and point out he was one of the best WR's of the 90's. I'd even argue top 10.

But to compare raw talent, putting Smith in the same sentence as Moss is just stupid. I shows you have no clue what you're talking about.

Moss will never be as good an overall WR as Rod, but Rod will never approach the talent Moss has either...

You're right. I'm ashamed. I should have never disgraced Rod by suggesting that Moss could even carry his jock. Thanks for calling me on it.

[gunns]

You didn't watch football in the 80's, did you?

I did, and as far as overall talent and what they accomplished, yeah they were pretty damn good.

[Rocket 7]

You didn't watch football in the 80's, did you?
Who? Tell me I really want to hear what you have to say who from the 80's is better

[crazyhorse]

It depends on what you want out of a player's productivity. Gonzo catches over a hundred and finds paydirt 7 times. Graham catches 30 and finds paydirt 7 times.

In that context having a bunch of receptions isn't all that.

Seems pretty straight forward.

Spin away.

I dont have to spin too fast to see that your agenda has you blind.

Every player in every offense or every defense plays a role. The Kansas City Chiefs get in the red zone and find Priest Holmes/Larry Johnson. You can no more blame Graham for the Pats winning the SB than you can blame Gonzo for not. Fact is, the Chiefs scored more than your mighty Patriots. The Chiefs offense makes the Pats look like, well, the Donks.

Now before you get on your high horse and lose your concentration, I should point out that I realize that our offense did not net us a SB victory last season. Let's stay on task here.

As pertaining to your offenseive apples to offensive apples comparison, I contend that the KC Chiefs make the Pats O look like a JV squad. Gonzo was part of that.

Still with me?

[gunns]

I'm still with you and wish I wasn't. No matter how you look at it, the Pats O got to a SB regardless of how many points they scored and your O didn't. Maybe if your player had hit pay dirt more often you'd have something to brag about. Your D has nothing to do with that. And yes the Pats O does look like the Broncos, last back to back SB winners.

[crazyhorse]

I'm still with you and wish I wasn't. No matter how you look at it, the Pats O got to a SB regardless of how many points they scored and your O didn't. Maybe if your player had hit pay dirt more often you'd have something to brag about. Your D has nothing to do with that. And yes the Pats O does look like the Broncos, last back to back SB winners.

And you said you were with me. :nono:

I have to conclude that you feel Graham is a better TE than is Gonzo. You are entitled to your opinion. I also see that you feel that the Pats had the better offense of the two teams. I doubt that you will find many that will agree with you.

Oh, and if it makes you feel beter, you weren't still with me when writing your post. I know that was bothering you. So I thought you would appreciate knowing that you were in your own world.

On the Back to Back SB thing. I really felt your passion there, man. Rep

[Sassy]

I'll take Jake to Rod...oh that's wasn't a choice...I'll punt then.

Oops...it said three...I'll put Bell or Ash in there...

[gunns]

Understanding you does not mean I have to agree with you or think you were right. No I don't think Graham is a better TE but I am into TD's over yards. I also don't think individually that the Pats are a better offense but as a team yes I do. They get the job done. It isn't important how many points you score as long as you score more than the opposition. Now if your O is all that you claim, with Green, Gonzo and Holmes they should have done that. It's not the Pats fault they don't HAVE to score as many as your team. I'm sure we're into the whining about the D right about now.

[crazyhorse]

I already pointed out that we didn't win the superbowl. I did that in an attempt to keep folks like you on task. I appologize that I am not smart enough to find a way to get it done. Perhaps someone else can bring you up to speed.

As for your saying that Graham is not better than Gonzo. That was one of my points.

As for saying the offense was better than the Pats offense, that was the other point in that post.

Agreeing with me also doesn't make you wrong grasshopper.

[WoodMan]

C'mon. Trent, Gonzo and Priest have been raping defenses for years. They are proven. Just because the defense sucks and the teams have gone nowhere does not mean they are proven. Randy Moss has never "proven" anything according to you.
Yeah Bob, They really tore them up last year when you were 1-4, and were out of the hunt after the New Orleans loss. By the way, who do you open with for the first 5 games in 05?

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Yeah Bob, They really tore them up last year when you were 1-4, and were out of the hunt after the New Orleans loss. By the way, who do you open with for the first 5 games in 05?

Trent, Gonzo and Priest have put up numbers during their tenure that rivals any other trio in the league. They can't control what happens on the other side of the ball.

Notice that the year they actually had a defense that helped them out (2003, ****load of turnovers) they got into the playoffs. Of course, even though they didn't punt in the playoffs, they still lost. Yeah, that was THEIR fault. Uhh

Basically, you're full of ****.

[Tredici]

I contend that the KC Chiefs make the Pats O look like a JV squad. Gonzo was part of that.

Your agenda has you blind.

Still with me?

I ain't with ya Chief. You are stumbling over yourself.

[Bronco9798]

I ain't with ya Chief. You are stumbling over yourself.

They always do....Try living around them every day of your life... :hitself:

[RhymesayersDU]

I'd take Tomlinson over Priest, Gonzo over Gates and Green over Brees thus giving the Chiefs trio the nod as of this moment but if you factor in age and assume that Gates isn't a one hit wonder then the Bolts trio for long term would get the nod.
Agreed here.

[crazyhorse]

I ain't with ya Chief. You are stumbling over yourself.

As pertaining to your offenseive apples to offensive apples comparison, I contend that the KC Chiefs O makes the Pats O look like a JV squad. Gonzo was part of that.

Still with me?

How about now?

[Tredici]

How about now?

Must I repeat yourself?

Your agenda has you blind.

[Merlin]

Fact is, the Chiefs scored more than your mighty Patriots. The Chiefs offense makes the Pats look like, well, the Donks.

Although I agree that it absurd to gauge the offence of the KC based on SB performance/win totals (otherwise you would have to argue that the O of the BR SB team was better, and who would be idiotic enough to make that contention), I also think it is asinine (pun intended) to even suggest the above comment.

We all know that the NFL official statistics for Offence and Defence can be found wanting to say the least, so instead we need to compare NE and KC with stats that better reflect their performance on the basis of wins, quality of opposition (especially as concerned to defensive quality), performance per game, performance according to scoring, and so on. The Football Outsiders stats provide are a much better compilation and understanding of performance of both, individuals and teams against opposition. And even though their stats are not perfect (what could be), they are far superior than those advanced by the NFL.

Accordingly, lets compare:

TE: Gonzo is 1st (slightly ahead of Gates) and Graham is 8th

RB: Dillon is 2nd, and Holmes is 8th (the injuries do not play a factor since they are compared on a performance basis, accordingly Johnson is 9th even though he has less than 600 yds total for the year).

QB: Brady is 3rd and Green is 5th (that is higher than I expected for Green)

So your dumb-ass (well another donkey) conclusions are based on ignorance like far too many KC fan comments. The NE is arguably better than the KC trio.

BTW, as to total offence KC is rated 2nd and NE 4th, again your ass-umptions are clearly shown to be defenceless (but then what should one expect from KC or its fans ;) )

Merlin

[crazyhorse]

Must I repeat yourself?

Your agenda has you blind.

No, I'm just stupid. Remember?

However, you still have yet to refute anything. The "I know you are but what am I" defense....well even someone like me can see through that bull****.

So far you have said you would rather have Graham as a TE over Gonzo, and the Pats offense over the Chiefs offense. Now I might be stupid, but I'm not that stupid. You even used stats to try to back your claim. Something no one else is allowed to do.

It has become obvious that you have no ammunition left on the issue. The fact that you keep trying is making you look desperate.


Why dont we just agree to disagree on this one, and call it a day?

[crazyhorse]

Although I agree that it absurd to gauge the offence of the KC based on SB performance/win totals (otherwise you would have to argue that the O of the BR SB team was better, and who would be idiotic enough to make that contention), I also think it is asinine (pun intended) to even suggest the above comment.

We all know that the NFL official statistics for Offence and Defence can be found wanting to say the least, so instead we need to compare NE and KC with stats that better reflect their performance on the basis of wins, quality of opposition (especially as concerned to defensive quality), performance per game, performance according to scoring, and so on. The Football Outsiders stats provide are a much better compilation and understanding of performance of both, individuals and teams against opposition. And even though their stats are not perfect (what could be), they are far superior than those advanced by the NFL.

Accordingly, lets compare:

TE: Gonzo is 1st (slightly ahead of Gates) and Graham is 8th

RB: Dillon is 2nd, and Holmes is 8th (the injuries do not play a factor since they are compared on a performance basis, accordingly Johnson is 9th even though he has less than 600 yds total for the year).

QB: Brady is 3rd and Green is 5th (that is higher than I expected for Green)

So your dumb-ass (well another donkey) conclusions are based on ignorance like far too many KC fan comments. The NE is arguably better than the KC trio.

BTW, as to total offence KC is rated 2nd and NE 4th, again your ass-umptions are clearly shown to be defenceless (but then what should one expect from KC or its fans ;) )

Merlin

I didn't say the KC trio was better. I said the KC offense was better.

P.S. We're not allowed to use stats, per Tred.

Next.

[Arkie]

John Elway, Terrell Davis, and Shannon Sharpe greatest trio ever............EVER!!!

Duh! John Elway is the best QB ever. Shannon Sharpe is the best TE ever. Terrell Davis is one of only five backs to get 2000 yards. This trio is easily the best ever.

[Tredici]

No, I'm just stupid. Remember?

However, you still have yet to refute anything. The "I know you are but what am I" defense....well even someone like me can see through that bull****.

So far you have said you would rather have Graham as a TE over Gonzo, and the Pats offense over the Chiefs offense. Now I might be stupid, but I'm not that stupid. You even used stats to try to back your claim. Something no one else is allowed to do.

It has become obvious that you have no ammunition left on the issue. The fact that you keep trying is making you look desperate.


Why dont we just agree to disagree on this one, and call it a day?

I absolutely have not said I would rather have Graham as a TE over Gonzo. I simply pointed out a different perspective on production. I'm not saying you are stupid, but I am saying you are jumping to conclusions you cannot support.

I'm not the one who rushed in with "Gonzo had the most catches in the NFL". I simply made fun of the poster who thinks that is relevent outside of game context.

I'm not desperate. I'm not trying.

I am meeting my main objective. Let's see if you can figure out what that is.

[crazyhorse]

I'm not desperate. I'm not trying.

I am meeting my main objective. Let's see if you can figure out what that is.

Destroying your credibility? ???

[Kaylore]

Tomlinson and Brees are better. Both had weaker O-lines. Tony G. is a better all-around tight end than Gates is.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Tomlinson and Brees are better. Both had weaker O-lines. Tony G. is a better all-around tight end than Gates is.

Brees is better than Green? What load of horse dung.

[Kaylore]

Brees is better than Green? What load of horse dung.

Um, Boob. Trent and Brees had the same number of TD's last season. Green had 17 ints and Brees had SEVEN. His line isn't as good too. Also Brees isn't on a stupid Mullet team. Brees wins, you lose, Chiefs are poo heads.

[Tredici]

Destroying your credibility? ???

You better go back and read all my posts carefully. Outside of poking fun at Chef fans propensity for individual statomatics you won't find evidence of any of things in your hysterical post.

Now stop being a whiner. I can't believe you even try that.

[crazyhorse]

You better go back and read all my posts carefully. Outside of poking fun at Chef fans propensity for individual statomatics you won't find evidence of any of things in your hysterical post.

Now stop being a whiner. I can't believe you even try that.

Hard to whine when laughing. You've underestimated how much fun this is for me.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Um, Boob. Trent and Brees had the same number of TD's last season. Green had 17 ints and Brees had SEVEN. His line isn't as good too. Also Brees isn't on a stupid Mullet team. Brees wins, you lose, Chiefs are poo heads.

That's ONE SEASON. Brees has SUCKED every other year. Trent...hasn't.

[Tredici]

Hard to whine when laughing. You've underestimated how much fun this is for me.


I know I'm having fun. Watching people jump to a conclusion which isn't even there is always interesting.

Yank.

Yank.

[Kaylore]

That's ONE SEASON. Brees has SUCKED every other year. Trent...hasn't.
Brees is young. He might be a flash in the pan, but its more likely that he has finally come into his own.

And to say Trent hasn't sucked every other year is a joke. He's been in the NFL 12 years, has only won the starting job twice, the first time only to lose it again to a store clerk. He's had three productive seasons out of twelve, and will always throw at least half as many ints as TD's, if not more. He plays behind a better line, and his running backs are excellent at picking up blitzes. The run game is amazing and so receivers are open more often than not. How any QB could not do well in that situation is beyond me.

Advantage Brees.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Brees is young. He might be a flash in the pan, but its more likely that he has finally come into his own.

And to say Trent hasn't sucked every other year is a joke. He's been in the NFL 12 years, has only won the starting job twice, the first time only to lose it again to a store clerk. He's had three productive seasons out of twelve, and will always throw at least half as many ints as TD's, if not more. He plays behind a better line, and his running backs are excellent at picking up blitzes. The run game is amazing and so receivers are open more often than not. How any QB could not do well in that situation is beyond me.

Advantage Brees.

Bullpoopy.

Green hasn't had the opportunity to start every year in the NFL. For most of his career he was buried on depth charts. Why is that even entering into your equation? And sitting there saying "Will throw half as many INTs as TDs" is a compliment, thanks.

Green: 5 seasons as a starter, 4 good seasons, 1 horrible season.

Brees: 3 seasons as a starter, 1 good season, 1 average season, 1 horrible season.

Brees hasn't helmed the NFL's best offense three years in a row. He can't hold Green's jock.

[Kaylore]

Bullpoopy.

Green hasn't had the opportunity to start every year in the NFL. For most of his career he was buried on depth charts. Why is that even entering into your equation?
Because if you don't impress enough in camp to move ahead of a someone then you suck. He obviously sucked


Green: 5 seasons as a starter, 4 good seasons, 1 horrible season.
At the end of his long, mediocre career.

Brees: 3 seasons as a starter, 1 good season, 1 average season, 1 horrible season. The one good season was last season and he torched Green comparatively. He's young and likely to improve. Brees has done more with less.

Brees hasn't helmed the NFL's best offense three years in a row. He can't hold Green's jock.
Green doesn't helm that offense, it helms him. He's a benefactor of the system, nothing more.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

Because if you don't impress enough in camp to move ahead of a someone then you suck. He obviously sucked


So? Even if he did, he doesn't now. Your point is completely irrelevant. Brees sucked his first two years, is that relevant?


At the end of his long, mediocre career.


True, but he's still the better QB RIGHT NOW. And he said he wants to play 5 more years.

The one good season was last season and he torched Green comparatively. He's young and likely to improve. Brees has done more with less.

Bull poopy. Green had over 1,000 more yards. I'm sure Trent Green could keep his interceptions ridiculously low if he played in Marty ****tenheimer's ultra-conservative system, too. So he torched Green by throwing fewer interceptions? LOL!

Green doesn't helm that offense, it helms him. He's a benefactor of the system, nothing more.

Now you're really reaching. Priest went down and the offense continued to impress. How would the offense do if Green went down? You've been listening to Taco John too much. If this was 2002, I'd agree with you, but the last two years Green has been the one making things happen in the offense.

[Kaylore]

So? Even if he did, he doesn't now. Your point is completely irrelevant. Brees sucked his first two years, is that relevant?
It speaks to the fact that Green is system quaterback.

True, but he's still the better QB RIGHT NOW. And he said he wants to play 5 more years.
This is something a five year-old would say. How does he know he'll still feel that way next year? What a stupid comeback.

Bull poopy.
This too, is something a five year-old would say.

Green had over 1,000 more yards. I'm sure Trent Green could keep his interceptions ridiculously low if he played in Marty ****tenheimer's ultra-conservative system, too. So he torched Green by throwing fewer interceptions?
That shows he's also smarter. Also, he managed to accomplish this on fewer attempts. And the point about the system only suggests that Brees could have been even MORE productive were it not for Marty Ball, so he's even BETTER than Green than we can see. If you keep the averages the same and Brees would have thrown as many times as green did, here is what his stats would look like if the average were to be maintained:

Yards: 4106 TDs: 35 ints: 9 20+: 52 40+ 11

Green still would have thrown for more yards, but yards aren't as important as TD's and interceptions. Don't forget either that Brees got better as the season went on, so likely these number would be higher.

Now you're really reaching. Priest went down and the offense continued to impress. How would the offense do if Green went down? You've been listening to Taco John too much. If this was 2002, I'd agree with you, but the last two years Green has been the one making things happen in the offense.

Sorry, its not true. I'm sorry you're in denial about your Quarterback being a system quarterback, but you'll just have to live with it. It's not like its a bad thing. Brees is better than Green. Green is just a mediocre guy with great people all around him.

[Bob's your Information Minister]

What complete balderdash. Green was in a different system in Washington with a horrible cast of talent around him and he still managed to throw 23 TDs and only 11 interceptions.

All this other crap is ridiculous. Green has had 4 good season, Brees has had ONE and we don't even know if he's going to repeat that. Green is proven. Brees is not.

Bottom line. Brees MIGHT get better, but he also might be a one-year wonder.

Bree's is 5'11, too. ;D