Walls+Rosenhaus=Trade

[NFLBRONCO]

I realize Denver would need to sign a vet corner for sure before this would happen. It is obvious Denver hates dealing with Drew and Walls is in final year of contract. Denver is in better get something then nothing mode. What do you think will happen?

[SoCalBronco]

Put simply, there is no way Denver trades Walls.
No Way in hell. Bob would get a life before we traded Lenny. The team had to make an election between Walls and Herndon. They knew at the time Lenny was represented by Rosenhaus and they still chose to tender Walls. Clearly, Denver felt that, all factors considered, even with their extreme disdain for Drew Rosenhaus and even with Lenny's injuries, they felt that what he provided was more than what Herndon provided. Denver obviously sees great ability in Walls.

Moreover, it would be impractical and literally suicide to deal him now. We have NOTHING proven after Champ. NOTHING. Scrubs, Newbies and/or both. That's it folks. The only vet corner out there that is as good or better than Walls is Law, obviously a better corner than Lenny, however his price tag is prohibitive, especially since we must now make room for Engelberger's 1.3 million dollar salary. Everyone else on the market are scrubs. We would be committing suicide by trading Walls. We dont have jack behind Champ. There is not a single viable scenario where we would trade Walls now. Lenny's health is just as important, i would argue, as the issue of whether the Browncos will help to invigorate the defensive line.

We are already in a precarious position at Corner. Roc Alexander is already a heartbeat from the starting lineup. Why would we invite disaster even further by trading away Lenny? How would you guys feel with Roc Alexander as the starter opposite champ, with Domonique Foxworth as the starting nickel guy from Day 1?

That's what i thought.

Lenny is going nowhere. If he isnt healthy, we are going to get raped. Period.

[SoDak Bronco]

I realize Denver would need to sign a vet corner for sure before this would happen. It is obvious Denver hates dealing with Drew and Walls is in final year of contract. Denver is in better get something then nothing mode. What do you think will happen?

I think we need to hang onto Walls and every other CB that we have. The weakest part of the team going into Training camp appears to have switched to the secondary and that is where some of the young guns need to step up.

[DBroncos4life]

Only if we got another DB for him and I don't see that happening. Just pray that he is level headed come off season.

[NFLBRONCO]

Put simply, there is no way Denver trades Walls.
No Way in hell. Bob would get a life before we traded Lenny. The team had to make an election between Walls and Herndon. They knew at the time Lenny was represented by Rosenhaus and they still chose to tender Walls. Clearly, Denver felt that, all factors considered, even with their extreme disdain for Drew Rosenhaus and even with Lenny's injuries, they felt that what he provided was more than what Herndon provided. Denver obviously sees great ability in Walls.

Moreover, it would be impractical and literally suicide to deal him now. We have NOTHING proven after Champ. NOTHING. Scrubs, Newbies and/or both. That's it folks. The only vet corner out there that is as good or better than Walls is Law, obviously a better corner than Lenny, however his price tag is prohibitive, especially since we must now make room for Engelberger's 1.3 million dollar salary. Everyone else on the market are scrubs. We would be committing suicide by trading Walls. We dont have jack behind Champ. There is not a single viable scenario where we would trade Walls now. Lenny's health is just as important, i would argue, as the issue of whether the Browncos will help to invigorate the defensive line.

We are already in a precarious position at Corner. Roc Alexander is already a heartbeat from the starting lineup. Why would we invite disaster even further by trading away Lenny? How would you guys feel with Roc Alexander as the starter opposite champ, with Domonique Foxworth as the starting nickel guy from Day 1?

That's what i thought.

Lenny is going nowhere. If he isnt healthy, we are going to get raped. Period.

Quit holding back SoCal tell us what you really feel about this :).

[NFLBRONCO]

Only if we got another DB for him and I don't see that happening. Just pray that he is level headed come off season.


I hope so too but, Rosenhaus clients tend to think BIG.

[SoCalBronco]

Only if we got another DB for him and I don't see that happening. Just pray that he is level headed come off season.

If he has a good season he is as good as gone. Now that i think of it, Shanny was totally right to select 3 corners in a row. Hell, it might have been a good idea to take 4 in a row on day 1. He knew he lost Herndon. He knew Middlebrooks was doing badly in rehab. He knew Walls hired Rosenhaus and that if he had a good year he would be gone because we arent going to tag him and let him take up 9 million of cap space. Basically he must have come to the conclusion that "I dont have **** here, besides Champ. I literally dont have ****". So we throw three darts at the board and gotta cleary hit on at least 1 to soften the blow next season and ideally 2. Now Denver will be in good shape cap wise next offseason but Shanny still will not blow our whole wad on franchising Walls, thats 10 million off the top pretty much that is taken away. There goes the good cap shape we worked hard to create, in one fell swoop its gone. So we needed a backup plan. Just gotta hope that these three were the right three.

[footstepsfrom#27]

Seen from this perspective, was the Middlebrooks trade a good idea since we have about 30 guys on the DL? What if Champ goes down in week 2 and we have Walls and Foxworth as the starters? Willie was at least playing well on special teams...but I imagine we'd see him hurt again anyway. We might need to make a trade for a veteran CB.

[DBroncos4life]

If he has a good season he is as good as gone. Now that i think of it, Shanny was totally right to select 3 corners in a row. Hell, it might have been a good idea to take 4 in a row on day 1. He knew he lost Herndon. He knew Middlebrooks was doing badly in rehab. He knew Walls hired Rosenhaus and that if he had a good year he would be gone because we arent going to tag him and let him take up 9 million of cap space. Basically he must have come to the conclusion that "I dont have **** here, besides Champ. I literally dont have ****". So we throw three darts at the board and gotta cleary hit on at least 1 to soften the blow next season and ideally 2. Now Denver will be in good shape cap wise next offseason but Shanny still will not blow our whole wad on franchising Walls, thats 10 million off the top pretty much that is taken away. There goes the good cap shape we worked hard to create, in one fell swoop its gone. So we needed a backup plan. Just gotta hope that these three were the right three.

Yep the Eagles did just that not 4 years ago and landed TWO Pro Bowlers in Micheal Lewis and Lito Sheppard. Sheldon Brown can hold his own as well.

[Mediator12]

If he has a good season he is as good as gone. Now that i think of it, Shanny was totally right to select 3 corners in a row. Hell, it might have been a good idea to take 4 in a row on day 1. He knew he lost Herndon. He knew Middlebrooks was doing badly in rehab. He knew Walls hired Rosenhaus and that if he had a good year he would be gone because we arent going to tag him and let him take up 9 million of cap space. Basically he must have come to the conclusion that "I dont have **** here, besides Champ. I literally dont have ****". So we throw three darts at the board and gotta cleary hit on at least 1 to soften the blow next season and ideally 2. Now Denver will be in good shape cap wise next offseason but Shanny still will not blow our whole wad on franchising Walls, thats 10 million off the top pretty much that is taken away. There goes the good cap shape we worked hard to create, in one fell swoop its gone. So we needed a backup plan. Just gotta hope that these three were the right three.

Thanks Socal. I know the thread I started stuck with someone after the draft now!

Seriously though, this trade may just be the tip of the iceberg so to speak. The CB situation may not be done just yet. As Bobby Knight once said, "just sit back and enjoy the ride."

[SoCalBronco]

Thanks Socal. I know the thread I started stuck with someone after the draft now!

Seriously though, this trade may just be the tip of the iceberg so to speak. The CB situation may not be done just yet. As Bobby Knight once said, "just sit back and enjoy the ride."

Med, you cant leave me hanging like that. Any clues or hints at least?
I would assume that the above means that we might bring in some vet FA corner or something as further insurance for the secondary as opposed to another trade for a current starting CB. Shanny seems to be a wheeler and dealer as of late, but how much more of this can he do?

Interesting though, and ill keep it in mind. I wonder what else they have up their sleeves.

[Mr. Trout]

If he has a good season he is as good as gone. Now that i think of it, Shanny was totally right to select 3 corners in a row. Hell, it might have been a good idea to take 4 in a row on day 1. He knew he lost Herndon. He knew Middlebrooks was doing badly in rehab. He knew Walls hired Rosenhaus and that if he had a good year he would be gone because we arent going to tag him and let him take up 9 million of cap space. Basically he must have come to the conclusion that "I dont have **** here, besides Champ. I literally dont have ****". So we throw three darts at the board and gotta cleary hit on at least 1 to soften the blow next season and ideally 2. Now Denver will be in good shape cap wise next offseason but Shanny still will not blow our whole wad on franchising Walls, thats 10 million off the top pretty much that is taken away. There goes the good cap shape we worked hard to create, in one fell swoop its gone. So we needed a backup plan. Just gotta hope that these three were the right three.


excellent comment man...rep

[fontaine]

Just because he's hired Rosenhaus doesn't mean he's going to command a huge signing bonus.

It all depends on how he plays this year. I think Walls will have a good/solid season but nothing spectacular. It takes a young/raw CB at least three/four years to fully reach his peak and Walls only have one year's starting experience.

Droughns also signed with Rosenhaus but didn't exactly get a huge new deal. It all depends on how well Lenny plays. Personally, I don't think he has the hands to grab 4/5 ints given how much teams will throw at him now that Bailey is on the other side but we'll see.

[Kaylore]

We'll see. If the Broncos front office is any history, it certainly looks that way. I just hope that Walls has the resolve to rise above Drew and have his own mind, but there's a reason that Drew is good at what he does.

[Lestat]

only 2 things will happen
1.Lenny will have sense & sign reasonably(he's not Champ Bailey nor will he get that type money)
2.He'll play for the franchise tag & they'll tell Drew to **** off


i could see him being traded if & only if the other CB's show enough promise that he's expendable but i hope he's reasonable & can sign for a good deal for both sides, we don't need another Ian Gold situation on our hands

[Beantown Bronco]

Walls will be impossible to franchise. The tag number is waaay to high....around $10 mil I think.

"Droughns also signed with Rosenhaus but didn't exactly get a huge new deal."

That's just because Droughns has a few years remaining on his current contract. Walls will be a free agent. Big difference.

[Ray Finkle]

Put simply, there is no way Denver trades Walls.
No Way in hell. Bob would get a life before we traded Lenny. The team had to make an election between Walls and Herndon. They knew at the time Lenny was represented by Rosenhaus and they still chose to tender Walls. Clearly, Denver felt that, all factors considered, even with their extreme disdain for Drew Rosenhaus and even with Lenny's injuries, they felt that what he provided was more than what Herndon provided. Denver obviously sees great ability in Walls.

Moreover, it would be impractical and literally suicide to deal him now. We have NOTHING proven after Champ. NOTHING. Scrubs, Newbies and/or both. That's it folks. The only vet corner out there that is as good or better than Walls is Law, obviously a better corner than Lenny, however his price tag is prohibitive, especially since we must now make room for Engelberger's 1.3 million dollar salary. Everyone else on the market are scrubs. We would be committing suicide by trading Walls. We dont have jack behind Champ. There is not a single viable scenario where we would trade Walls now. Lenny's health is just as important, i would argue, as the issue of whether the Browncos will help to invigorate the defensive line.

We are already in a precarious position at Corner. Roc Alexander is already a heartbeat from the starting lineup. Why would we invite disaster even further by trading away Lenny? How would you guys feel with Roc Alexander as the starter opposite champ, with Domonique Foxworth as the starting nickel guy from Day 1?

That's what i thought.

Lenny is going nowhere. If he isnt healthy, we are going to get raped. Period.


I thought their salaries were a wash?

[Garcia Bronco]

Walls and German ********** have no leverage as he's not even a proven commodity. He has to have not only a career year, but also make the pro bowl to any kind of leverage.

[Jason in LA]

The Broncos are in no position to trade Walls. He has no trade value at this point. What can they get for him, 4th round pick? Middle of the road player? He has one good year under his belt, and one year where he was hurt all the time. As good as the Broncos think he'll be, his value at this point is very low.

Like it has been said before, there is nobody behind him that Shanny would want to start at this point. We'd be in horrible shape if Walls was traded

The Broncos are stuck in a tough spot. They have to wait this thing out and hope they can keep Walls past this season. If not, they better get one great year out of him and hope they can make a Super Bowl run. Then next year start one of the youngsters.

People like to believe that Shanny drafted all the CBs to stop Moss. But that's not the case. He realizes that Walls may be gone, and that the Broncos need to be deep at CB to play nickel and dime.

[Beantown Bronco]

"Walls and German corksucker have no leverage as he's not even a proven commodity. He has to have not only a career year, but also make the pro bowl to any kind of leverage."

I'm not so sure.....all it takes is one team willing to overpay. Just look at Hayward's deal. He had an above average, but hardly a stellar year, and made out like a bandit.

[Tom A Hawk]

Put simply, there is no way Denver trades Walls.
No Way in hell. Bob would get a life before we traded Lenny. The team had to make an election between Walls and Herndon. They knew at the time Lenny was represented by Rosenhaus and they still chose to tender Walls. Clearly, Denver felt that, all factors considered, even with their extreme disdain for Drew Rosenhaus and even with Lenny's injuries, they felt that what he provided was more than what Herndon provided. Denver obviously sees great ability in Walls.

Moreover, it would be impractical and literally suicide to deal him now. We have NOTHING proven after Champ. NOTHING. Scrubs, Newbies and/or both. That's it folks. The only vet corner out there that is as good or better than Walls is Law, obviously a better corner than Lenny, however his price tag is prohibitive, especially since we must now make room for Engelberger's 1.3 million dollar salary. Everyone else on the market are scrubs. We would be committing suicide by trading Walls. We dont have jack behind Champ. There is not a single viable scenario where we would trade Walls now. Lenny's health is just as important, i would argue, as the issue of whether the Browncos will help to invigorate the defensive line.

We are already in a precarious position at Corner. Roc Alexander is already a heartbeat from the starting lineup. Why would we invite disaster even further by trading away Lenny? How would you guys feel with Roc Alexander as the starter opposite champ, with Domonique Foxworth as the starting nickel guy from Day 1?

That's what i thought.

Lenny is going nowhere. If he isnt healthy, we are going to get raped. Period.

How about a trade....2 peanuts, six pack of your favorite beer and Warfield for Walls.......here is hoping you get the beer before Warfield drinks it :alky:

[MT-Tdawg]

NO way we trade Walls. It would be suicide at corner. Roc on either Porter or Moss all game? Oh hellllll no. I honestly hope Walls has a good year, even though it will raise his price come this offseason. I'd still like to see him as a Bronco in 06 if he plays like he did in 03 this year.

[sirhcyennek81]

Few years ago Broncos went with two undrafted free agents at corner, we did pretty ok there. I would prefer to have experience at both starting cb spots, but it would not be the end of the world to have a few rookie corners in the backfield, we will just have to watch how they develop, thats the exciting part. I think Foxworth is going to be something special.

[SouthStndJunkie]

No way we trade Walls. Shanny has a man crush on Walls and really wants to see if he can stay healthy and play at a high level. Plus we need his experience at corner this year. If he has a great year in 2005 then he and Rosenhaus will cash in and we can see what happens in regards to remaining a Bronco.

SSJ

[Mediator12]

I am still reeling over the loss of Kelly Herndon for the year. WTF??? If we had given him the same tender as Walls ONLY 650k more this year, we could have rented him as our third CB and have a starter as depth and an excellent slot CB in the NIckel.

Does anyone think we can get any proven vet off the street for a 650k cap hit? There has to be another trade in the works that is flying under the radar. This team has made way to many savy moves to acquire pass rush and seemingly left the door open to another depth issue in the secondary. I think there is more stuff that is going to hit before camp fellas.

BTW, all of the people who were pissed about "the Plan" and the lack of getting a high profile DL in FA or in the draft, what do you all think of the offseason moves so far?

[Ray Finkle]

I am still reeling over the loss of Kelly Herndon for the year. WTF??? If we had given him the same tender as Walls ONLY 650k more this year, we could have rented him as our third CB and have a starter as depth and an excellent slot CB in the NIckel.

Does anyone think we can get any proven vet off the street for a 650k cap hit? There has to be another trade in the works that is flying under the radar. This team has made way to many savy moves to acquire pass rush and seemingly left the door open to another depth issue in the secondary. I think there is more stuff that is going to hit before camp fellas.

BTW, all of the people who were pissed about "the Plan" and the lack of getting a high profile DL in FA or in the draft, what do you all think of the offseason moves so far?


I don't see the love for Herndon....he is a role player at best. Walls is a starter....

[Rock Chalk]

I don't see the love for Herndon....he is a role player at best. Walls is a starter....
Herndon did a bang up job last year I thought. In fact, I thought he played better last year in his position than Walls did the year before.

[Mediator12]

I don't see the love for Herndon....he is a role player at best. Walls is a starter....

Let me see... For a total of one million you get an experienced nickel Slot QB with no less than two years experience STARTING in the NFL. He would be the veteran Backup in case of injury, just like last year when Walls had two surgeries and three shoulder seperations.

Yes, IF Walls is healthy he is the starter. Unfortunately, he started ZERO games for this team last year and Herndon did. Herndon Was an RFA that could be rented on the cheap for insurance depth at CB. Remember, Denver did have the 6th best pass defense with him starting at CB and having no consistent pass rush. Just imagine how much better the depth would be for a measly 650k!

[Garcia Bronco]

"Walls and German corksucker have no leverage as he's not even a proven commodity. He has to have not only a career year, but also make the pro bowl to any kind of leverage."

I'm not so sure.....all it takes is one team willing to overpay. Just look at Hayward's deal. He had an above average, but hardly a stellar year, and made out like a bandit.


There is no accounting for the idiots in the world... this much is certain.

[Jason in LA]

I am still reeling over the loss of Kelly Herndon for the year. WTF??? If we had given him the same tender as Walls ONLY 650k more this year, we could have rented him as our third CB and have a starter as depth and an excellent slot CB in the NIckel.

Does anyone think we can get any proven vet off the street for a 650k cap hit? There has to be another trade in the works that is flying under the radar. This team has made way to many savy moves to acquire pass rush and seemingly left the door open to another depth issue in the secondary. I think there is more stuff that is going to hit before camp fellas.

BTW, all of the people who were pissed about "the Plan" and the lack of getting a high profile DL in FA or in the draft, what do you all think of the offseason moves so far?

The way I understand it, even if the Broncos gave Herndon the same contract that Walls got, that doesn't mean Herndon had to accept it. That offer was nowhere near the offer that he got from the Seahawks. So either way Herndon was as good as gone.

As for not getting a high profile D lineman, I'm glad they didn't do that. Since the end of the Super Bowl run Shanny has gotten a big named and high priced player through free agency. It's backfired everytime (Carter, IHOP, Griese), and it's cost the team big time. When they rely on one player to be the difference maker, and that player doesn't come through, they just wasted their money and didn't improve the team. Shanny has gone back to what he did to build the Super Bowl teams. Take players who have a lot of talent, and a lot to prove. Those players come cheap and will work their butts off to prove that they weren't busts. Not all were hits, but Shanny got enough hits to build a powerful team. I'd say he went back to that this offseason. All the guys that he brought in came in cheap and have a lot to prove, and they all have talent. I'd say this is the best offseason in the post-Elway era. If just a few of these guys are hits the team is much better than last year's team, which was pretty good.

[Ray Finkle]

Let me see... For a total of one million you get an experienced nickel Slot QB with no less than two years experience STARTING in the NFL. He would be the veteran Backup in case of injury, just like last year when Walls had two surgeries and three shoulder seperations.

Yes, IF Walls is healthy he is the starter. Unfortunately, he started ZERO games for this team last year and Herndon did. Herndon Was an RFA that could be rented on the cheap for insurance depth at CB. Remember, Denver did have the 6th best pass defense with him starting at CB and having no consistent pass rush. Just imagine how much better the depth would be for a measly 650k!


a dime a dozen....the NFL is full of decent nickel backs...

[Mediator12]

a dime a dozen....the NFL is full of decent nickel backs...

Really? Name one that is available and cheaper than Herndon would have been.

[Mediator12]

The way I understand it, even if the Broncos gave Herndon the same contract that Walls got, that doesn't mean Herndon had to accept it. That offer was nowhere near the offer that he got from the Seahawks. So either way Herndon was as good as gone.

As for not getting a high profile D lineman, I'm glad they didn't do that. Since the end of the Super Bowl run Shanny has gotten a big named and high priced player through free agency. It's backfired everytime (Carter, IHOP, Griese), and it's cost the team big time. When they rely on one player to be the difference maker, and that player doesn't come through, they just wasted their money and didn't improve the team. Shanny has gone back to what he did to build the Super Bowl teams. Take players who have a lot of talent, and a lot to prove. Those players come cheap and will work their butts off to prove that they weren't busts. Not all were hits, but Shanny got enough hits to build a powerful team. I'd say he went back to that this offseason. All the guys that he brought in came in cheap and have a lot to prove, and they all have talent. I'd say this is the best offseason in the post-Elway era. If just a few of these guys are hits the team is much better than last year's team, which was pretty good.

Sure, Herndon would have had that offer with first right of refusal to the Broncos. The kicker was that if he was tendered that amount then Seattle would owe Denver a first round pick in 2006. For 650k Denver could have kept Herndon or let someone sign him and get their first round pick next year. That is value IMHO.

[Ray Finkle]

Really? Name one that is available and cheaper than Herndon would have been.

I don't know if they are exact matches....but there are also the Ambroses of the world available as well. If Herndon was so good, why did he not have more INT's with most teams throwing on him?

CB Brian Williams
CB Renaldo Hill

[Beantown Bronco]

Sure, Herndon would have had that offer with first right of refusal to the Broncos. The kicker was that if he was tendered that amount then Seattle would owe Denver a first round pick in 2006. For 650k Denver could have kept Herndon or let someone sign him and get their first round pick next year. That is value IMHO.

This whole "value of Herndon" argument is incorrect. For the low (650K) tender that you speak of, if another team then signed him, they would owe us the comparable pick that he was selected at. Since he was undrafted, we would get nothing in return. There was no way the Broncos could retain Herndon for less than $1 mil.

There was no value in keeping him, unless he could crack the starting lineup (and not because of injury to others).

[Atlas]

Walls and German corksucker have no leverage as he's not even a proven commodity. He has to have not only a career year, but also make the pro bowl to any kind of leverage.

I disagree. Walls is young, has is tall, he has good speed and technique. If he has a good year and stays healthy he'll command at least $5million a year. Hell, Herndan got $3 million a year from the Seahawks.

[Mediator12]

This whole "value of Herndon" argument is incorrect. For the low (650K) tender that you speak of, if another team then signed him, they would owe us the comparable pick that he was selected at. Since he was undrafted, we would get nothing in return. There was no way the Broncos could retain Herndon for less than $1 mil.

There was no value in keeping him, unless he could crack the starting lineup (and not because of injury to others).

You missed the argument here. For 650k MORE THAN they tendered, they would have had compensation for Herndon if he left. The compensation would have likely scared away any and all suitors and not just made the offer a right of first refusal.

As for the second point of his value, what if Denver did not have Herndon last year? It would have been Champ and Roc starting at the end of the season with an injured Shoate as the nickel CB. A million for a two year starter in the NFL at the third highest paid position IS value. Or would you like to see INDY type performances in every game down the stretch last year.

[Mediator12]

I don't know if they are exact matches....but there are also the Ambroses of the world available as well. If Herndon was so good, why did he not have more INT's with most teams throwing on him?

CB Brian Williams
CB Renaldo Hill

Both have already signed. Hill is in Oakland. Williams is with MIN.

Because teams routinely had 5 seconds to throw the ball with the lack of consistent pass rush. When they did not get that, they completed less than 31% of their third down attempts for less than 185 passing yds per game.

[Beantown Bronco]

You missed the argument here. For 650k MORE THAN they tendered, they would have had compensation for Herndon if he left. The compensation would have likely scared away any and all suitors and not just made the offer a right of first refusal..

Maybe so, but then you go on to say "what good nickleback could we get for 650K? He is a good value" You're using the wrong number for this part of the argument. He would've cost at total of 1.3mil against the cap if we gave him the high tender. Now, because we let him go, he costs nothing against the cap. This means the Broncos could in essence use $1.3 mil to replace him and the numbers would be a wash. There are plenty of better corners out there IMO that could play nickle for less than that.

[Atlas]

You missed the argument here. For 650k MORE THAN they tendered, they would have had compensation for Herndon if he left. The compensation would have likely scared away any and all suitors and not just made the offer a right of first refusal.

.

You can only offer that tender to one player and they gave it to Walls. They had to make a choice on which one of them they would offer the tender.

[Jason in LA]

What are the exact rules here? Could they offer both Walls and Herndon the same type of contracts? Or do they only get one "first round tender"? If that's the case then they had to choose between the two. I'm not sure what the exact rules are. I'm sure they made their decisions based on what the rules allowed them. I don't think they just let Herndon up and walk without doing what they could to keep him.

[Atlas]

What are the exact rules here? Could they offer both Walls and Herndon the same type of contracts? Or do they only get one "first round tender"? If that's the case then they had to choose between the two. I'm not sure what the exact rules are. I'm sure they made their decisions based on what the rules allowed them. I don't think they just let Herndon up and walk without doing what they could to keep him.

see post 40

[Jason in LA]

You can only offer that tender to one player and they gave it to Walls. They had to make a choice on which one of them they would offer the tender.

Looks like you answered the question as I was asking it.

If that is the case, then they did what was best for the team.

[Mediator12]

Maybe so, but then you go on to say "what good nickleback could we get for 650K? He is a good value" You're using the wrong number for this part of the argument. He would've cost at total of 1.3mil against the cap if we gave him the high tender. Now, because we let him go, he costs nothing against the cap. This means the Broncos could in essence use $1.3 mil to replace him and the numbers would be a wash. There are plenty of better corners out there IMO that could play nickle for less than that.

One more time. The Broncos did not have to offer anything to him as a RFA. They simply could have let him go and not offered anything. As it was, they offered the minimum to keep right of first refusal. Therefore, they were willing to spend 650k to keep him this year. My point is why not keep a CB you know, who has started in this system for two years, to insure solid depth, just to save 650k.

Someone will eat that cap money since you either spend it or lose it. either Herndon could have had it or a combination of other vets will get it. Now they have to gamble on an unknown vet or make another trade to get the depth they need when they could have ponied up 650k.

[Mediator12]

You can only offer that tender to one player and they gave it to Walls. They had to make a choice on which one of them they would offer the tender.

Nope. The collective Bargaining agreement says they can offer any contract to as many RFA's as posssible. I went over this after Herndon signed with Seattle already.

[Atlas]

Nope. The collective Bargaining agreement says they can offer any contract to as many RFA's as posssible. I went over this after Herndon signed with Seattle already.

They could have offered him this but he was in no way bound to it like Walls was.

You could have offered Herndan a contract but he wouldn't have to sign it. Why would he sign a lesser contract when he knows a team out there like Seattle will give him $3 mil a year?

[Mediator12]

They could have offered him this but he was in no way bound to it like Walls was.

You could have offered Herndan a contract but he wouldn't have to sign it. Why would he sign a lesser contract when he knows a team out there like Seattle will give him $3 mil a year?

He is required to sign it. That is what RFA is for. He was not a UFA. The restriction is for the teams protection not the players. Do you really think Seattle makes that offer if they have to give Denver their 2006 First? I hope so, then Denver has three First round picks in the 2006 draft.

[Atlas]

He is required to sign it. That is what RFA is for. He was not a UFA. The restriction is for the teams protection not the players. Do you really think Seattle makes that offer if they have to give Denver their 2006 First? I hope so, then Denver has three First round picks in the 2006 draft.

He is not required. Denver can only offer that tag to one player. I remember the whole thing. Denver had to choose whether they would tag Herndan or Walls. And they tagged Walls.

[Beantown Bronco]

He is not required. Denver can only offer that tag to one player. I remember the whole thing. Denver had to choose whether they would tag Herndan or Walls. And they tagged Walls.

Not true. You're thinking of a franchise or transition designation, where you can only tag one. A tender is different. You can offer tenders to all your RFA's if you have the room under the cap.

They could've offered the high "tender" to both. The reason they didn't is because they didn't have enough room under the cap. It had nothing to do with league rules re: number of tenders.

[Beantown Bronco]

[QUOTE=Mediator12] Therefore, they were willing to spend 650k to keep him this year. My point is why not keep a CB you know, who has started in this system for two years, to insure solid depth, just to save 650k. QUOTE]

You answered your own question. They believed a nickle corner was worth $650K, but not $1.3 million. I don't see the issue. They took that $1.3 mil and decided to spend it on 3 rookie CBs and some left over for other signings. Now THAT's value.

[Atlas]

Not true. You're thinking of a franchise or transition designation, where you can only tag one. A tender is different. You can offer tenders to all your RFA's if you have the room under the cap.

They could've offered the high "tender" to both. The reason they didn't is because they didn't have enough room under the cap. It had nothing to do with league rules re: number of tenders.

Your saying Denver could have offered Herndan the same thing they offered to Walls and a team would have had to give them a first round pick if they wanted to sign him?

I think your wrong but I'm not looking it up. So we can agree to disagree.

[Jason in LA]

Looks like we need a link to the official rules. If nobody gets it, I'll look it up later today.

I have the feeling that the Broncos did what they could do to keep him.

[Ray Finkle]

Both have already signed. Hill is in Oakland. Williams is with MIN.

Because teams routinely had 5 seconds to throw the ball with the lack of consistent pass rush. When they did not get that, they completed less than 31% of their third down attempts for less than 185 passing yds per game.


didn't you ask who was available for that price? At the time they let Herndon go both of these fools were available.

[Atlas]

Nope. The collective Bargaining agreement says they can offer any contract to as many RFA's as posssible. I went over this after Herndon signed with Seattle already.

Ok I looked it up. I found this on the Bronco website.

Denver can tender Herndan and they DID BUT since he was an undrafted free agent all Denver could do was get the chance to match the offer, Which obviously they didn't. They first round tender which they have one. Was given to Walls. If Herndan was a 4th round draft pick then Seattle would have had to give Denver a 4th rounder BUT since he was undrafted Seattle didn't have to reimburse Denver.

Here is a clip of the article that deals with Herndan.

Denver actually made its first free-agent moves last week when they offered contract tenders to seven players. Six were offered tenders that would require a draft pick as compensation if they went elsewhere, while cornerback Kelly Herndon's tender only gave the Broncos the right of first refusal because he went undrafted.

[Beantown Bronco]

Two or more high tenders not against the rules:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6209283

[color=#484848]But what if a home team was cap strapped and couldn't put a high tender on a restricted free agent? The cap hit for a high tender is $1.3 million. What if a team had more than one restricted free agent to protect and for cap reasons could only afford one high tender and the other players got the low tender $650,000? ]

[Lestat]

who cares? no one would have signed Herndon if it was a 1st round tender but Denver didn't have the cap to keep both & Herndon was viewed as a backup so he's gone & Lenny's still here

[Mr. Trout]

Your saying Denver could have offered Herndan the same thing they offered to Walls and a team would have had to give them a first round pick if they wanted to sign him?

I think your wrong but I'm not looking it up. So we can agree to disagree.


yes that is right. Walls was given a first round tender which is 1.4 million I believe. If someone would have signed him we would have got their first rounder. Herndon was given the minimum tender. That is why we received no compensation. The coaching staff chose walls over herndon.