Middlebrooks

[JunkyardWillie]

Depth makes Middlebrooks expendable
Denver and San Francisco are discussing a deal that would involve the injury- plagued defensive back.
By Bill Williamson
Denver Post Staff Writer



The Broncos and San Francisco are discussing a deal that would send former first-round pick Willie Middlebrooks to the 49ers as early as today for an undisclosed veteran player.

The 49ers, who are in need of a backup cornerback, are investigating Middlebrooks' off-the- field behavior before finalizing a deal. The Broncos' top pick in 2001 was arrested in January on misdemeanor domestic violence charges.

Middlebrooks has an Oct. 11 trial date. He had a court hearing Monday.

"Everything is on hold before we talk any further. We want to know we're chasing a good guy," 49ers coach Mike Nolan told the Santa Rosa Press Democrat. "We want to make sure it was a bad choice and not a character issue."

Nolan said a trade was "50-50."

He said the Broncos would likely get a veteran in return. San Francisco has been shopping defensive linemen John Engelberger and Andre Carter because the 49ers are switching to a 3-4 defense.

Middlebrooks was the 24th pick in 2001. Carter, the seventh pick in 2001, played in just seven games last season because of back problems.

Engelberger, from Virginia Tech, has played for the 49ers since 2000.

An NFL source said the Broncos have been shopping Middlebrooks around the league.

Among the teams still looking for help at cornerback are San Francisco, Jacksonville. New England, Miami and Kansas City.
The injury-plagued Middlebrooks may be expendable because of the wealth of young backup defensive backs. The Broncos used their top three draft choices on cornerbacks: Darrent Williams, Karl Paymah and Domonique Foxworth. With training camp less than three weeks away, the Broncos would likely prefer to get a player on a current roster in return for Middlebrooks.

Middlebrooks' agent, Drew Rosenhaus, said he couldn't comment on whether a trade was imminent.

Middlebrooks, entering the final year of his contract, was the team's nickel back last year because of an injury to Lenny Walls. Middlebrooks played well before he suffered torn ligaments in his right leg Dec. 12 against Miami, ending his season. Middlebrooks' first three seasons were interrupted by injuries.

[JunkyardWillie]

Andre Carter would be nice. If I remember correctly Shanny really liked him coming out of college.

[SoCalBronco]

Andre Carter would be nice. If I remember correctly Shanny really liked him coming out of college.

Quite correct, Shanny has liked him for a long time. Damn, if we could get a DE like Carter for Willie.. zowie! damn that would be sweet. Props to Wabbit for again being right on the ball on calling Willie's impending departure for awhile now. Excellent move by Shanny. Engelburger would be fine too, he is a hard worker and a gritty player. Garcia would like that acquisition thats for sure. Im not sure what makes me happier, your avatar or this possible deal.
Great job shanny! Imagine that quality depth at DE folks....Pryce, Brown, Ekuban and either Carter or Engelberger. Thats really ****ing solid.


And they said it couldnt be done.....Bill Williamson actually wrote a ****ing article.

[Atlas]

Damn does Denver need ANOTHER Dlineman??? Hell, there is 17 on the roster now!!

Carter would be a nioce addition though. I have to imagine if Carter is part of the package Denver will also throw in a draft pick.

[JunkyardWillie]

Damn does Denver need ANOTHER Dlineman??? Hell, there is 17 on the roster now!!


Maybe this trade would tell us that Shanny isn't too happy with Warren.

[SoCalBronco]

Damn does Denver need ANOTHER Dlineman??? Hell, there is 17 on the roster now!!

Carter would be a nioce addition though. I have to imagine if Carter is part of the package Denver will also throw in a draft pick.

Yeah if we threw in an early day 2 pick that would be okay for a guy like Carter. While we do have a bunch of DL, the only DE we have without injury questions is Palepoi so we are thinner than it appears at the surface at that position perhaps. Dang Atlas this possible trade is really getting me pumped. Coyer rotates all those quality lineman in and out, to keep everyone fresh and this is a powerful Defensive line...****ing powerful.

[Atlas]

Maybe this trade would tell us that Shanny isn't too happy with Warren.

CArter is a small DE. Warren is a huge NT

[SoCalBronco]

Maybe this trade would tell us that Shanny isn't too happy with Warren.

I dont think it has to do with Warren. They seem to like him. Plus he is a DT, these guys here are DEs on San Fran. I think we are just trying to build quality guys at the end position who can bring heat. Pryce, Ekuban and Brown all have injury questions. You put in another really solid DE and rotate them all around, thats pretty damn good. Statistical probability may warrant that one of them goes down but then you plug in another solid DE.

[JunkyardWillie]

CArter is a small DE. Warren is a huge NT

My bad. For some reason I was thinking Carter played NT. I must have been thinking back to Ruben...

[eddie mac]

I guess Shanny's patience has finally run out with Willie. Most coaches dont like admitting they've made a mistake especially in drafting a 1st rounder but I'm sure Mike would come top of that category.

We all knew the writing was on the wall during the draft, that and Middlemisses' personal issues. At least Shanny will now do what he does best and get decent compensation for him, remember Delta, same again would do nicely.

[eddie mac]

This probably also means that Mike can keep all 3 rookie CB's on the active roster instead of possibly losing someone of the practice squad.

[fontaine]

There's not a snowball's chance in hell that we would get Carter for Middlebrooks. We would have to send them at least a 3rd or even a 2nd considering how Middlebrooks has barely even seen the field.

All three players are on their original deals signed as rookies I think so it could be feasible under the cap but seriously, no way San Fran swap him for Middlebrooks straight up.

[Ray Finkle]

and the Reverend cries in his morning coffee.....

[Beantown Bronco]

There's not a snowball's chance in hell that we would get Carter for Middlebrooks. We would have to send them at least a 3rd or even a 2nd considering how Middlebrooks has barely even seen the field.

All three players are on their original deals signed as rookies I think so it could be feasible under the cap but seriously, no way San Fran swap him for Middlebrooks straight up.

Simple, Carter missed most of last season with a back injury. You're looking at a DE with a bad back vs. a young 1st round corner with potential still. It may not be straight up, but a second rounder would definitely not need to be thrown in too.

A point not brought up yet: how much do you guys think the Devil played in this? I'm wondering if Shanny wants a team free from that guy's clutches. Could the blacklisting of Rosenhaus have taken a step forward?

[DB-Freak]

Well

How about MIddlebrooks with another DL for Andre.

Getting Andre would be sweet with middlebrooks as the bait.

MAKE THIS HAPPEN.

[Ninjafied]

I'm wondering if Shanny wants a team free from that guy's clutches. Could the blacklisting of Rosenhaus have taken a step forward?

I noticed that too.
But on the other hand, Middlebrooks has hardly been in any position to give his agent something to barter with.
So getting rid of a Rosenhaus player is likely just icing on the cake.
I think after last year’s fiasco on the line Shanny’s just looking for as much quality depth as possible.

[fontaine]

Simple, Carter missed most of last season with a back injury. You're looking at a DE with a bad back vs. a young 1st round corner with potential still. It may not be straight up, but a second rounder would definitely not need to be thrown in too.

A point not brought up yet: how much do you guys think the Devil played in this? I'm wondering if Shanny wants a team free from that guy's clutches. Could the blacklisting of Rosenhaus have taken a step forward?

That's what I said. The Broncos would have to add in a 3rd at least and maybe they are willing to do so considering we've got two 1sts & two 4ths next year.

If we could throw in Middlebrooks + plus 3rd round pick for Carter then I would be all for it considering Middlebrooks was cut regardless and Carter for a 3rd would be a steal.

[Garcia Bronco]

I think some of you have eyes bigger then your stomachs.

[BroncoInferno]

That's what I said. The Broncos would have to add in a 3rd at least and maybe they are willing to do so considering we've got two 1sts & two 4ths next year.

If we could throw in Middlebrooks + plus 3rd round pick for Carter then I would be all for it considering Middlebrooks was cut regardless and Carter for a 3rd would be a steal.

Teams weren't willing to give up a first day pick for Pryce coming off a back injury, even though all indications were that his particular back injury does not have a high rate of reoccurence. I don't know the specifics of Carter's back injury, but if it made him miss the entire season, I doubt his value is terribly high. In this context, it's entirely possibly he could be had for Willie straight up.

[-Slap-]

That's what I said. The Broncos would have to add in a 3rd at least and maybe they are willing to do so considering we've got two 1sts & two 4ths next year.

If we could throw in Middlebrooks + plus 3rd round pick for Carter then I would be all for it considering Middlebrooks was cut regardless and Carter for a 3rd would be a steal.

The 49ers seem really down on him, though. He did have one big season, with 12.5 sacks in 2002, but overall they view him as a disappointment. I would love to see this happen, but if extra compensation is needed, we're probably looking at a throwaway pick on day two.

[Ninjafied]

Here’s an idea – a conditional draft pick based on playing time. Depending on Carter’s health throughout the season they could get anything from a 3rd to 6th rounder.
That way no one gets really screwed in the deal (unless Middlebrooks pulls up lame.... again).

[Needa Pass Rush]

I'm wondering if Shanny wants a team free from that guy's clutches. Could the blacklisting of Rosenhaus have taken a step forward?

Or maybe it has more to do with a David Gibbs purge. ???

[baja]

This is good news on two fronts. I have coveted Carter sense he came out of school and if Willie is on the trading block that means our draft choices have shown enough in mini camp to make Willie expendable.

[Traveler]

If Shanny really is getting rid of Rosenhaus' clients, guess that means Walls won't be back next year. Especially if he has a really good year.

As far as Middlebrooks is concerned, I had hoped he would finally get things on track. But he can't stay healthy and his off-field issues complicates matters. I say if we can get Carter in this deal, go for it.

[baja]

If Shanny pulls this off straight up he will be up on a second rape charge after the first rounder he raped from Joe Gibbs not to mention the likely rape of Cleveland for there 4 defensive linemen, toss in the possible rape of the rest of the NFL due to the Mo Clarret pick and poor old Shanny could be looking at four rape charges which would get him life ( as the Broncos coach).

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Carter
2005 3500000.00
2006 1350000.00

Engelberger
2005 1265000.00
2006 1750000.00

[BroncoInferno]

Carter
2005 3500000.00
2006 1350000.00

Engelberger
2005 1265000.00
2006 1750000.00

Unless Carter restructures, it looks like Engleberger will be the vet we get. I'd be fine with that. Solid depth on the line.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

If the 49ers are switching to the 3-4 permanently, then Carter and Engelberger's value drop a bit since everyone knows the 49ers are trying to dump them. Add in Carter's back problems, and hopefully there's a decent chance this is a straight up deal between two teams wanting to give players fresh starts.

It's also speculation on BW's part since he's the one who brings the two names up since the 49ers have said to have been shopping them.

[fontaine]

The 49ers seem really down on him, though. He did have one big season, with 12.5 sacks in 2002, but overall they view him as a disappointment. I would love to see this happen, but if extra compensation is needed, we're probably looking at a throwaway pick on day two.

At least he made it to the field for four seasons compared to ol' Willie who never made it past special teams until last year. He did have a great game covering Antonio Gates but it would be robbery if we could get Carter for Middlebrooks + second day pick.

[baja]

Who are the 49'ers back up QBs?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Who are the 49'ers back up QBs?

Dorsey, Cody Pickett, and Tim Rattay

[27atwater]

I'd want a WR or a Guard if we don't get Carter for Willie.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

KFFL's blurb from a 49er writer:

49ers | More on Potential Middlebrooks Trade
Wed, 13 Jul 2005 05:31:29 -0700

Matt Maiocco, of the Santa Rosa Press Democrat, reports San Francisco 49ers head coach Mike Nolan said Tuesday, July 12, there is a 50-50 chance the 49ers will continue to pursue a deal that would send them Denver Broncos CB Willie Middlebrooks. Nolan declined to discuss which 49er is being dangled, but DE John Engelberger is the most likely trade candidate.

[BroncoInferno]

Engelberger had 45 tackles and 6 sacks last season. He'd make quite a solid back-up.

[Mediator12]

And the Broncos continue to pillage the DE's of teams switching to 3-4 defenses. For all the great analysis (NOT) by the national media, they have missed how teams are changing scheme's making good DE's available since they are ?'s as rush LB in the 3-4. BTW, these guys have been unloaded for CHEAP! This would be the sixth first round talent now playing DL for the Broncos. Four of which may be acquired this offseason.

I personally have had enough of the criticism of the Front office moves in this offseason. They have exploited WAS, CLE, and now possibly SF if this deal goes through. The law of Large numbers will definitely be there if two get hurt, then we still have the Talent to dominate the LOS. I remember TP and Luther destroying OL's last preseason from the inside push in the nickel set. If two of these potential four are available, the elusive pass rush problems may be no longer.

I have said goodbye to Willie already anyway. Two straight seasons not being available to play in those INDY playoff losses punched his ticket out of Denver. Seriously people, Peyton routinely tosses TD's on #1 and #2 CB's, let alone #5 rookie UDFA's with spot play all season. I will miss Middlebrooks athleticism and Height in this new pass happy division. However, I will not miss him sitting on the sidelines missing his team's asskicking again.

[baja]

With just a little luck we will have 2 starting quality D lines this season and in the thin air of home games what will that spell for opposing O lines - doom for their QB.

[Rohirrim]

Football basics: The better your Dline, the better your secondary. That's the place to put your money and your numbers. Don't let the door hit you in the ass, Willie.

[Mediator12]

Screw sending them a pick. Let's package Pierce and Willie for Carter. Pierce is dead weight at this point here and the 3-4 would give him a starting chance in SF. It also would free up enough cap money to bring in Carter without too much trouble. Chukwurah and Burns are backing up AL and DJ and Sykes still would have a chance too. This would be a great deal for both teams. Get it done Billy!!!

[RukdaFaidas]

I'm confused with Denver. As an outsider looking in, I just can't understand Shanny's fascination with acquiring all of the defensive FA's the last 2 years. It seems extremely obvious to me that Denver isn't lacking on defense, but could use a lot of help on their offense. Why isn't he looking to improve his offense?

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Why isn't he looking to improve his offense?

I think he's looking at the natural growth you expect from a young player as they gain experience from finally getting to play.

RT Foster- got in the final game of his rookie year, a rookie in a lot of ways last year

FB Johnson- first significant game time

RB Bell- hurt for a lot of the season, came on at the end

WR Watts- rookie WR, 2nd season

TE Putzier- finally the main TE last year instead of #3 in a rotation of 3

WR Lelie- full-time starter for the first time last year

Not a young guy, but

LT Lepsis- made the switch from RT to LT last year


He's going after the DL since Denver had virtually no pass rush last year, and that probably contributed in a lot of ways to hardly any turnovers.

[baja]

We are loaded on O with young guys that are ready to step up big time.

We could use some backup help on the O line though.

[Mediator12]

I'm confused with Denver. As an outsider looking in, I just can't understand Shanny's fascination with acquiring all of the defensive FA's the last 2 years. It seems extremely obvious to me that Denver isn't lacking on defense, but could use a lot of help on their offense. Why isn't he looking to improve his offense?

The only Place the Offense needs help is QB and the red Zone. Red zone problems are complicated as Plummer's red Zone Rating from last year was 43.4. Half of his total QB rating. This offense is great until the Red Zone where the QB struggles.

[broncosteven]

I'm confused with Denver. As an outsider looking in, I just can't understand Shanny's fascination with acquiring all of the defensive FA's the last 2 years. It seems extremely obvious to me that Denver isn't lacking on defense, but could use a lot of help on their offense. Why isn't he looking to improve his offense?

Defense wins championships.

I am glad Shanny is dangling these guys out there instead of just cutting them & moving on. We have 2 1st round picks so I could live with giving up a 2nd rounder for Carter although a conditional pick no higher than 2nd plus Willie is fair. Middlebrooks is no guarantee to play either healthwise.

I sure hope Willie's offfield trouble doesn't hose this trade up!

[broncosteven]

Screw sending them a pick. Let's package Pierce and Willie for Carter. Pierce is dead weight at this point here and the 3-4 would give him a starting chance in SF. It also would free up enough cap money to bring in Carter without too much trouble. Chukwurah and Burns are backing up AL and DJ and Sykes still would have a chance too. This would be a great deal for both teams. Get it done Billy!!!


NO WAY Keep Pierce we need Depth just think if Al goes down what shape we would be in. We have plenty of picks for next year I prefer to trade unknown picks for proven young players on the cheap also. Paying 2 1st rounders bonuses next year is going to suck.

[Mediator12]

NO WAY Keep Pierce we need Depth just think if Al goes down what shape we would be in. We have plenty of picks for next year I prefer to trade unknown picks for proven young players on the cheap also. Paying 2 1st rounders bonuses next year is going to suck.

Dude, what part of Chukwurah AND Burns did you miss? We have two guys IN FRONT OF PIERCE on the MLB depth Chart right now. Pierce is still slotted as SLB.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I am glad Shanny is dangling these guys out there instead of just cutting them & moving on. We have 2 1st round picks so I could live with giving up a 2nd rounder for Carter although a conditional pick no higher than 2nd plus Willie is fair. Middlebrooks is no guarantee to play either healthwise.


Hell no. Next year's draft is already going to be deep, and could get even deeper with more early entries than usual because of the unknown of what a new CBA could bring. Even in the bottom half of the 2nd, that pick could still land much greater talent than normal. It's not worth giving up for someone coming off of a back injury that has only hit double digit sacks once in his career.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Paying 2 1st rounders bonuses next year is going to suck.

Ashely and Foster got less than $10M combined in signing bonuses and Denver's got them through '09 or '10.

Rookie bonuses only suck if you pick a bust, if you hit on the pick you've got a good player on the cheap.

[Ninjafied]

If the 49ers are switching to the 3-4 permanently, then Carter and Engelberger's value drop a bit

Wasn’t there talk that we were switching to the 3-4? Or was that determined to be a special situation/part time rotation? Or was that just coach screwing with people’s heads?

[Rascal]

I wouldn't be suprised if we shipped willie out for a draft pick either.

I'd take Carter but I think you guys are overvaluing Willie or Pierce way to much. Engelberger would be a good pickup, but I'm guessing it's for a draft pick.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

Wasn’t there talk that we were switching to the 3-4? Or was that determined to be a special situation/part time rotation? Or was that just coach screwing with people’s heads?

I think Coyer said 1/3 or 1/4 of the time.

[broncosteven]

Dude, what part of Chukwurah AND Burns did you miss? We have two guys IN FRONT OF PIERCE on the MLB depth Chart right now. Pierce is still slotted as SLB.

Neither is a true MLB. I love Chukwurah as a pass rush specialist coming off the edge but not sure of his run stuffing ability. Burns is just an old special teamer who I like only in that role. If Burns is playing everydown we are in trouble.

[RukdaFaidas]

Once again, this is just my opinion, but I look at Denver and see a tremendous amount of talent on Defense and not much on offense. I truly feel Denver's offense has been successful mostly because of scheme, not talent. I also see the AFC West trying to adapt to handle Denver's sheme. If you notice, Oakland has switched to a 3-4, San Diego is running a 3-4 and KC has announced they will alternate between a 3-4 and 4-3. I think a lot of the reasoning for the switch has to do with handling Denver's misdirection plays. Misdirection is less successful against 3-4 defenses, you typically have more backside containment in a 3-4.
Like I said in an earlier thread, I think Shanny is an offensive genius. But I question that Denver has enough offensive talent to line up and go head to head if the misdirection isn't working.
I do noticed that Denver had moderate success (40 points/2 games) against SD last year, though.

[Ninjafied]

I think Coyer said 1/3 or 1/4 of the time.

Hopefully injuries don’t end up playing a role in that.
At the very least it should be interesting.
Coyer seems to think he might be some sort of Belichick style D-guru. Maybe he’ll try to slot Rice in as a nickel back aka Troy Brown. rofl

[broncosteven]

Hell no. Next year's draft is already going to be deep, and could get even deeper with more early entries than usual because of the unknown of what a new CBA could bring. Even in the bottom half of the 2nd, that pick could still land much greater talent than normal. It's not worth giving up for someone coming off of a back injury that has only hit double digit sacks once in his career.

I would rather have a cheaper guy who has proven himself over an unknown Rookie who may not reach his potential. LOOK MIDDLEBUST WAS A 1st rounder who never reached his potential! If we do not have a cap in next couple of years than you can risk more $ but playing under today's capology give me a known hardworker like Meyers or engleburt-whatever-his-name-is over a 2nd round bust ESPECIALLY since we have TWO 1st rounders. This is my opionion only.

Plus we have to remember Willie is a risk in both health & Off-field. If a 2nd rounder gets us Carter I would do it. TP is a risk with his back also.

We are pretty loaded at every position. A stud QB would be nice to draft, WR if Watts disappoints, maybe a Saftey or 2 but we still have 7 other picks.

[clarker]

The only Place the Offense needs help is QB and the red Zone. Red zone problems are complicated as Plummer's red Zone Rating from last year was 43.4. Half of his total QB rating. This offense is great until the Red Zone where the QB struggles.Plummer had a rough time in part to the lose of Shannon Sharpe. Sharpe was a great goal line threat. Jake needs Putzier to break out in this area, or perhaps Shawn(sp?) Alexander will step in Shannon's role.

[Ninjafied]

I also see the AFC West trying to adapt to handle Denver's sheme. If you notice, Oakland has switched to a 3-4, San Diego is running a 3-4 and KC has announced they will alternate between a 3-4 and 4-3. I think a lot of the reasoning for the switch has to do with handling Denver's misdirection plays. Misdirection is less successful against 3-4 defenses, you typically have more backside containment in a 3-4.


I’d like to believe that all or division rivals are switching D scheme just for us, but….
Besides, isn’t the West Coast O designed to shred the 3-4. ???

[DB-Freak]

I’d like to believe that all or division rivals are switching D scheme just for us, but….
Besides, isn’t the West Coast O designed to shred the 3-4. ???
We don't really use a west coast offense.

Our scheme is more like the Shanahan scheme.

[broncosteven]

Once again, this is just my opinion, but I look at Denver and see a tremendous amount of talent on Defense and not much on offense. I truly feel Denver's offense has been successful mostly because of scheme, not talent. I also see the AFC West trying to adapt to handle Denver's sheme. If you notice, Oakland has switched to a 3-4, San Diego is running a 3-4 and KC has announced they will alternate between a 3-4 and 4-3. I think a lot of the reasoning for the switch has to do with handling Denver's misdirection plays. Misdirection is less successful against 3-4 defenses, you typically have more backside containment in a 3-4.
Like I said in an earlier thread, I think Shanny is an offensive genius. But I question that Denver has enough offensive talent to line up and go head to head if the misdirection isn't working.
I do noticed that Denver had moderate success (40 points/2 games) against SD last year, though.

Arent Butt-pirates going back to 4-3 as base? Denver has trouble running on 3-4's but still have success passing, misdirection helps more against 3-4 if they send wrong blitzer & it makes the LB's stay home. I don't see KFC using 3-4 anymore than we will. I think 3-3-5 will be more prevalant than classic 3-4 for Denver, KFC, & possiblly butt-pirates.

[RukdaFaidas]

Arent Butt-pirates going back to 4-3 as base? Denver has trouble running on 3-4's but still have success passing, misdirection helps more against 3-4 if they send wrong blitzer & it makes the LB's stay home. I don't see KFC using 3-4 anymore than we will. I think 3-3-5 will be more prevalant than classic 3-4 for Denver, KFC, & possiblly butt-pirates.
I haven't heard Oakland switching to 4-3, but they might. Yeah, KC doesn't have the type of DL needed to be successful in the 3-4, full time. I do see them using it quite a bit against Denver, though.
KC now has 3-4 LB's and 4-3 linemen, we'll have to see what/how they're going to do.

[Play2win]

Screw sending them a pick. Let's package Pierce and Willie for Carter. Pierce is dead weight at this point here and the 3-4 would give him a starting chance in SF. It also would free up enough cap money to bring in Carter without too much trouble. Chukwurah and Burns are backing up AL and DJ and Sykes still would have a chance too. This would be a great deal for both teams. Get it done BILLY!!!
Hilarious! rofl

(I assume you are referring to the Bang cartoon...)


Also, nice points on your previous post.

I think you're right, Shanahan is TAKING ADVANTAGE of the NFL being a copy-cat league.

Everybody and anybody wants to have a 3-4 right now. Fine we'll leak alittle info that we're thinking of it too, and then sweep up everybody's 4-3 TALENTED D-Linemen. Brilliant!!!

[fontaine]

If it's Engelberger, then forget the added draft pick.

The guys is simply not big enough to play end in their 3-4 scheme, whereas I could see Andre Carter switching up to the pass rushing LB since he's a tweener anyway.

Engelberger is a backup guy and for that just Middlebrooks should be good enough considering we already have Pryce/Ekuban/Brown/PalePoi/Coleman.

[WyoLaw]

Jake needs Putzier to break out in this area, or perhaps Shawn(sp?) Alexander will step in Shannon's role.

I think you mean Stephen Alexander...

[PatsWin2002]

Hey folks ....I'm on vacation and way behind on the threads, but PFW has an opinion on the Middle brooks thing if if hasn't already been posted:

http://profootballweekly.com/PFW/Commentary/Spins/2005/spins071305.htm

Niners-Broncos discussing deal for CB Middlebrooks

Broncos CB Willie Middlebrooks, the 24th overall pick in the 2001 draft, never met expectations in Denver and could be on his way out. After Denver drafted cornerbacks — Oklahoma State’s Darrent Williams, Washington State’s Karl Paymah and Domonique Foxworth from Maryland — with their first three draft picks in April’s draft, it became evident the numbers crunch would force at least one veteran out before the end of training camp. With Champ Bailey and Lenny Walls in front of several young cornerbacks, Middlebrooks has become expendable. The 49ers, who plan to use RCB Mike Rumph at free safety alongside Tony Parrish, need depth on the edge.

PFW: Does Middlebrooks fit with the Niners’ new-look defense?

Reynolds: Mike Nolan has final say on all acquisitions — draft, free agency and trades — and will only pull the trigger on this deal if he believes Middlebrooks can fit. One concern near the top of Nolan’s evaluation is Middlebrooks’ off-the-field issues; he faces an Oct. 11 trial date for a misdemeanor domestic violence charge. Nolan has been adamant, even before the P.R. training tape nightmare arose, that character would be paramount in rebuilding the franchise.

The next question is: How much or whom will San Francisco give up? Middlebrooks tore ligaments in his right leg on Dec. 12 against the Dolphins and has two years and a total of $1.275 million remaining on his current contract. If he’s healthy, Middlebrooks (represented by Drew Rosenhaus) could prove a cheaper alternative to veterans like Ty Law and Dewayne Washington who remain on the market. He did play well as the nickel cornerback for the Broncos last season and, at 6-1, 200 pounds, fits the prototype Nolan seeks.

The Broncos are said to be seeking a veteran in return rather than draft choices. Denver acquired an additional first-round pick in 2006 and doesn’t need to add more picks. According to the Denver Post, the Niners could give up workmanlike DE John Engelberger. Engelberger started 15-of-16 games last season and, playing end in the 3-4, would be overpowered more times than not. He’s signed through the ’06 season with base salaries of $1.265 million (’05) and $1.75 million.

[broncosteven]

If it's Engelberger, then forget the added draft pick.

Engelberger is a backup guy and for that just Middlebrooks should be good enough considering we already have Pryce/Ekuban/Brown/PalePoi/Coleman.

I agree, I didn't make myself clear that I would only give up a high pick in addition to Willie for Carter.

[Garcia Bronco]

Engelberger is a Hokie and would be good for depth.

[TheReverend]

and the Reverend cries in his morning coffee.....

I just got done running people through a couple pistol relays and I hop on the computer to see this?!?!?! This whole thread is killing me.

LIES! LIES I TELL YOU!

At least I've still got my Courtney... who better not be getting replaced by Carter...

[yavoon]

Andre Carter would be nice. If I remember correctly Shanny really liked him coming out of college.

no aimpoint too high for a homer!

[delany]

Andre Carter belongs in Orange. Rueben would be proud.

A move for even more D-line help really sets up an Offense dominated draft next year.

[DB-Freak]

no aimpoint too high for a homer!
WTF!!?!??!!

Alright I willing to bet that not one person got what this post was saying.

[yavoon]

WTF!!?!??!!

Alright I willing to bet that not one person got what this post was saying.

"Andre Carter would be nice. If I remember correctly Shanny really liked him coming out of college.






no aimpoint too high for a homer!"

[TotallyScrewed]

Why do I have this ****-eatin' grin on my face interspersed with a case of the giggles??? Oh yeah, Middlebrooks for Carter. Yeah, dreams do come true.

[DB-Freak]

"Andre Carter would be nice. If I remember correctly Shanny really liked him coming out of college.






no aimpoint too high for a homer!"
OK so are you saying that Shanny is giving up too much for Andre since he is a homer of Andre?

I would really like to see verbs and predicates in your sentences please.

[DBroncos4life]

I sure hope its Andre Carter so I could start a Oh Trent thread.

[i4jelway7]

it won't be carter, if there is a deal it will be for engleberger

[bpc]

The final peice of David Gibbs being swept under the rug. I'm not suprised. Middlebrooks has been a huge disappointment AS a first round pick. He's been solid, made the club, but never the big athletic corner we were thinking of when we drafted him. A change of scenery and coaching will help him. He's basically peaked here in Denver. Maybe he can go somewhere else and jump start his career.

As for Engleberger or Carter... I like Carter better but Engleberger is cut from the old school cloth. All he does is show up. Think Mike Lodish at DE. He'll do the needed things to help this team be a top defense. Carter is way more flash, and if we are still going the way of impact players down the line... Carter would be the guy we go for I think.

Either way, we are adding another talented body to our rotation at DL and I can't help but feel good about that.

The offense is going to score. The defense will stop people. Will we get turnovers? That will be the key.

I really like the look of this team with or without Middlebrooks or our new DE. Should be interesting. Two and a half weeks and counting!

[DBroncos4life]

What was San Frans rank on D? That will be first thing brought up by the media.

[yavoon]

OK so are you saying that Shanny is giving up too much for Andre since he is a homer of Andre?

I would really like to see verbs and predicates in your sentences please.

wow ur god damn slow. junkyard willie is the homer who is hoping for too much, getting a teams best passrusher for a broken down cb.

[Garcia Bronco]

I can't believe it...but we're going to be even better on defense next year.....

[illbroncsfn]

I do recall Shannahan trying to trade up to nab Andre Carter in the draft...

[DBroncos4life]

wow ur god damn slow. junkyard willie is the homer who is hoping for too much, getting a teams best passrusher for a broken down cb.


I not 100% sure here but I'm willing to bet you said that Denver wouldn't get much for our best passrusher with a BAD back. Just thought I would point that out. Either way I don't care which one we land. Either would add depth to the DLine.

[Ray Finkle]

I just got done running people through a couple pistol relays and I hop on the computer to see this?!?!?! This whole thread is killing me.

LIES! LIES I TELL YOU!

At least I've still got my Courtney... who better not be getting replaced by Carter...


some how I pictured you spitting out coffee and then punching the office filing cabinet....

[JunkyardWillie]

no aimpoint too high for a homer!

you are right i am just a homer and that's why i said Carter would be nice. it has nothing to do with the fact the original article mentions the possibility of Carter. me saying it would be nice is homerism to the highest degree

[footstepsfrom#27]

Carter is a Denver native.

[yavoon]

you are right i am just a homer and that's why i said Carter would be nice. it has nothing to do with the fact the original article mentions the possibility of Carter. me saying it would be nice is homerism to the highest degree

yes:) and I didnt even mean it in a bad way!

[bronco militia]

Carter is a Denver native.


yes...he's also the son of former Broncos NT Rubin Carter.

[DBroncos4life]

And the Broncos continue to pillage the DE's of teams switching to 3-4 defenses. For all the great analysis (NOT) by the national media, they have missed how teams are changing scheme's making good DE's available since they are ?'s as rush LB in the 3-4. BTW, these guys have been unloaded for CHEAP! This would be the sixth first round talent now playing DL for the Broncos. Four of which may be acquired this offseason.

I personally have had enough of the criticism of the Front office moves in this offseason. They have exploited WAS, CLE, and now possibly SF if this deal goes through. The law of Large numbers will definitely be there if two get hurt, then we still have the Talent to dominate the LOS. I remember TP and Luther destroying OL's last preseason from the inside push in the nickel set. If two of these potential four are available, the elusive pass rush problems may be no longer.

I have said goodbye to Willie already anyway. Two straight seasons not being available to play in those INDY playoff losses punched his ticket out of Denver. Seriously people, Peyton routinely tosses TD's on #1 and #2 CB's, let alone #5 rookie UDFA's with spot play all season. I will miss Middlebrooks athleticism and Height in this new pass happy division. However, I will not miss him sitting on the sidelines missing his team's asskicking again.



Was that a hint on who it maybe? I know Carter was a first round pick but what about that other guy???

[footstepsfrom#27]

The 9ers website lists Carter as an LB.

[Ray Finkle]

Was that a hint on who it maybe? I know Carter was a first round pick but what about that other guy???


he was a second rounder out of VT....

[Cito Pelon]

There's a lot of excitement over a guy with a bad back.

A DL with a back injury plays about two years after the injury, if that. And probably doesn't play as effectively, either. I'd say it's Engleburger to go for.

[SoDak Bronco]

I don't ever remember hearing a team do more trades in football then Denver has in the past few years. It has seemed to be effective way to bring in some good players. You have to think Nolan will not let Shannahan get the better end of this deal, so I wouldn't be surprised if weren't happen with this when it all pans out. I hope its straight up player for player swap w/ no picks involved. So is this the story that wild BiLL has been working on for the past 6 months or has he been recovering from excess amounts of cheese n his system.

[DBroncos4life]

he was a second rounder out of VT....


Not bad.

[Play2win]

So is this the story that wild BiLL has been working on for the past 6 months or has he been recovering from excess amounts of cheese n his system.

I wonder if its just coincidence that the New BANG! Cartoon named its main charactor "BILLY", or if he was modeled after our very own "Billy" Williamson...
Hilarious! rofl

[SoCalBronco]

Hey Med, regarding Pierce, who starts for SF at MLB? They have some good LBs. I think its Jeff Ulbrich who is a good player. I dont know if Terry could beat him out. SF has good LBs with Winborn, Ulbrich, Peterson. They are going to a 3-4 but i think Pierce is strictly a 2 down 4-3 MLB. Still, id throw him in if they threw Rashaun Woods in with the deal. I think Shanny could turn him around and he has little value to them.

[Kaylore]

I heard, from Wabbit I think, that we were going to cut Middlebrooks because his foot wasn't healing. This makes me wonder if he would even pass their physical. Anyway, should this pan out we will have pulled the wool over the eyes of several teams this offseason.

[Ninjafied]

So is this the story that wild BiLL has been working on for the past 6 months or has he been recovering from excess amounts of cheese n his system.

I was just thinking that. This has to be some sort of record concerning one of his articles - 4 pages and Williamson's provided just enough info so that the thread doesn't break down and start labeling him completely worthless.
Maybe we should all give him a second chance Hilarious!

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I heard, from Wabbit I think, that we were going to cut Middlebrooks because his foot wasn't healing. This makes me wonder if he would even pass their physical.

That rumor is a month and a half old and had to do with June 1st.

[Garcia Bronco]

We are undefeated in the Super Bowl with a Hokie on the roster.

[Traveler]

We are undefeated in the Super Bowl with a Hokie on the roster.


Who was the last one?

[Garcia Bronco]

Who was the last one?

Vaughn Hebron

He was drafted by the Eagles

[DBroncos4life]

if we WERE going to do anything with Pierce I would rather grab Young from them. Sure he is 33 but should Luther miss sometime he would be great to have fill in for him.

[Rock Chalk]

Once again, this is just my opinion, but I look at Denver and see a tremendous amount of talent on Defense and not much on offense. I truly feel Denver's offense has been successful mostly because of scheme, not talent. I also see the AFC West trying to adapt to handle Denver's sheme. If you notice, Oakland has switched to a 3-4, San Diego is running a 3-4 and KC has announced they will alternate between a 3-4 and 4-3. I think a lot of the reasoning for the switch has to do with handling Denver's misdirection plays. Misdirection is less successful against 3-4 defenses, you typically have more backside containment in a 3-4.
Like I said in an earlier thread, I think Shanny is an offensive genius. But I question that Denver has enough offensive talent to line up and go head to head if the misdirection isn't working.
I do noticed that Denver had moderate success (40 points/2 games) against SD last year, though.
There is a lot of talent on offense. In fact, I would say there is more talent offensively than defensively.

PROVEN players wise that is: Rod Smith, Ashley Lelie, Tatum Bell, Putzier, Nalen, Lepsis, Foster, Neil, Johnson and Watts have all proven themselves to be able to play in the NFL at a high level. Watts needs to work on his dropsies and Bell needs to work on his injuries, but other than that, those guys are all proven.

On Defense however, we have Pryce and Wilson and Williams and Bailey and Lynch as absolute proven players. Gold may do well again here, but he may not. Walls may be able to make that extra step up, but then he may not. Fergy played great when he filled in, but again, we dont know how he is going to handle a full time job. And as far as the D-line, none of those guys with the exception of Pryce is really gauranteed to be anything more than bodies out there.

Our offense is fine, our defense and special teams needed work.

[broncosteven]

I don't ever remember hearing a team do more trades in football then Denver has in the past few years. It has seemed to be effective way to bring in some good players. .

I think Mike established a new trend with the Trades. I am glad to see them get something for guys that would either be cut or hold out. Trading is better than cutting a guy. Plus I think there is some cap savings also, doesn't the team take on each new players cap hit?

[Traveler]

I think Mike established a new trend with the Trades. I am glad to see them get something for guys that would either be cut or hold out. Trading is better than cutting a guy. Plus I think there is some cap savings also, doesn't the team take on each new players cap hit?

So true! :notworthy Just ask Cleveland fans prior to Crennel & Co.

[Jetmeck]

I'm confused with Denver. As an outsider looking in, I just can't understand Shanny's fascination with acquiring all of the defensive FA's the last 2 years. It seems extremely obvious to me that Denver isn't lacking on defense, but could use a lot of help on their offense. Why isn't he looking to improve his offense?

I could have just quoted you on one word "CONFUSED" says it all ! :~ohyah!:

[TheReverend]

some how I pictured you spitting out coffee and then punching the office filing cabinet....

If only I had a filing cabinet or an office... it wouldve all been ****ed up. Im holding out hope... cant we at least trade him for a ball-hawk safety or another DT if Ellis rips his calf instead of ANOTHER DE?

[Broncoman13]

I'd love to see Andre in Denver. Sure he's coming off some injury problems... which is the exact same problem with Willie. With Brown, Trev, Ekuban, and Carter we'd have a fresh set of legs for the playoffs. Carter and Brown could take it easy during the season while Trev and Ek did the dirty work and then we'd have VERY fresh legs... of course I'm kidding here, but to a certain degree it would work out this way.

[Atlas]

The 49ers seem really down on him, though. He did have one big season, with 12.5 sacks in 2002, but overall they view him as a disappointment. I would love to see this happen, but if extra compensation is needed, we're probably looking at a throwaway pick on day two.


Trade Middlebrooks and Dorsett Davis for Carter. Davis has loads of potential but he is in the last year of his contract. The 49ers would jump on this.

[DBroncos4life]

My only thoughts on this is who the media will attack. We picked up a few ends this year so in their minds someone must not be as good as we thought or still hurt. I do think its safe to say that Hunt won't get the chance I hoped that he would get this offseason.

[Wes Mantooth]

Isn't Andre Carter a Legacy in Denver?
Andre Carter would be nice. If I remember correctly Shanny really liked him coming out of college.

[Broncoman13]

Imagine Shanny getting out of that draft failure... Yeah, we messed up drafting him but I liked both Gerrard Warren and Andre Carter better anyhow and now I have both of them!!!

[DB-Freak]

wow ur god damn slow. junkyard willie is the homer who is hoping for too much, getting a teams best passrusher for a broken down cb.
"no aimpoint too high for a homer!"

Bwaaaahaha

Please at least try to write better and don't insult because someone has trouble understanding caveman writing style.

That sentence dictated ****.

So nxt tme pls wrt lttle bttr.

I bg f u.

[Ratboy]

So i just read this..

This sucks..

[SoCalBronco]

sorry ratboy. i was wondering when you were going to comment on it.

[Ratboy]

I'm not suprised one bit though.

Although i don't understand why we would trade him?

I'm not highly impressed by any one of our cornerbacks, excluding Champ Bailey.

We hope for good things out of Walls and these Rookies, but will it happen?

Yeah Middlebrooks hasnt never been healthy either but he showed some promise last year, I guess Shanahan sees good things out of some of our rookies and thinks they are capable of starting.

If we can get a good player out of it, go for it. If it makes the team better, I'm for it. although another defensive lineman? Thats ridiculous!

[DBroncos4life]

From what I have seen 9ers fans don't think it would be Carter but its not out of the question. They said that the coaching staff has been real high on Carter the last two weeks saying that he is ready to go. My bro is a long time 9ers fan and he had nothing but good things to say about that other end as well. Sounds like if something does happen we will be making out very well even though we will be running young on DB's this year. Old Bobby Taylor wouldn't look bad should we unload Brooks. Something has to give though we have ALOT of Dline players. Hunt, Pope, Chukie Nwokorie, Raylee Johnson, Dorsett Davis, Mario Fatafehi, Demetrin Veal and even Anton Palepoi all would have their work cut out for them. Sending them Middlebrooks and Davis for Carter seems like a good move looking at the depth of our team. I could see 5-6 ends being kept this year though. Palepoi is my boy that I'm cheering for just because he seems to have a good motor and he went with Denver over the Jags when the Hawks cut him loose.

Also we only have what 6 DT's on the team as well, 7 if you include Davis which I always thought he was anyways. Maybe ESPN just has him in the wrong spot. Could anyone see 6 DE's and 6 DT's making the team???

[Bronco LB 59]

Despite Middlebrooks' injury history, I think Ratboy brings up a valid point. Lenny Walls doesn't have the greatest fluidity for a cornerback and there's a lot of inexperience past him. There's an abundance of talent, but nobody can say they are comfortable with Shoate, Roc or any of the rookies playing significant time at nickel at this point in time. If one of the starters goes down, a sophomore or rookie will be starting on this squad.

[SoCalBronco]

Despite Middlebrooks' injury history, I think Ratboy brings up a valid point. Lenny Walls doesn't have the greatest fluidity for a cornerback and there's a lot of inexperience past him. There's an abundance of talent, but nobody can say they are comfortable with Shoate, Roc or any of the rookies playing significant time at nickel at this point in time. If one of the starters goes down, a sophomore or rookie will be starting on this squad.

Yep, that is a major concern. Roc is a heartbeat from the starting lineup as it were. However, since there have been reports that Willie's recovery was going very poorly, the team may have reasoned that even if we kept him he wasnt going to be healthy enough to contibute anyway. The key is, he has to be healthy enough to pass SF's physical while at the same time not being healthy enough for the Broncos staff to reasonably believe he could be relied upon for us this season in order to overcome this argument.

[DBroncos4life]

Despite Middlebrooks' injury history, I think Ratboy brings up a valid point. Lenny Walls doesn't have the greatest fluidity for a cornerback and there's a lot of inexperience past him. There's an abundance of talent, but nobody can say they are comfortable with Shoate, Roc or any of the rookies playing significant time at nickel at this point in time. If one of the starters goes down, a sophomore or rookie will be starting on this squad.


Well I think its safe to say the team knows that Middlebrook won't do us any good on the bench. Lets be real here as well. Chances are thats what will happen as well. I think they know that a younger guy was going to be tossed into the mix sometime this year anyways we might as well get a solid passrush guy to ease the pain when that does happen.

[elsid13]

Well I think its safe to say the team knows that Middlebrook won't do us any good on the bench. Lets be real here as well. Chances are thats what will happen as well. I think they know that a younger guy was going to be tossed into the mix sometime this year anyways we might as well get a solid passrush guy to ease the pain when that does happen.


A good pass rush make your DB look a hell of a lot better. Beside I think Roc might surprise some folks on the board.

[Bronco LB 59]

Yep, that is a major concern. Roc is a heartbeat from the starting lineup as it were. However, since there have been reports that Willie's recovery was going very poorly, the team may have reasoned that even if we kept him he wasnt going to be healthy enough to contibute anyway. The key is, he has to be healthy enough to pass SF's physical while at the same time not being healthy enough for the Broncos staff to reasonably believe he could be relied upon for us this season in order to overcome this argument.

That's a Catch 22 if I ever heard of one.

[DBroncos4life]

A good pass rush make your DB look a hell of a lot better. Beside I think Roc might surprise some folks on the board.


I'm not banking on Roc but if its him more power to it. My money is on Forxworth but thats just me. First thing is Walls HAS to stay healthy or we are looking at another big hole there.

[elsid13]

I'm not banking on Roc but if its him more power to it. My money is on Forxworth but thats just me. First thing is Walls HAS to stay healthy or we are looking at another big hole there.


You might be right on Foxworth in year, but as rookie I don't see him being the nickle or dime back. Roc has gone thru the rookie mind crap and now should shine.

[Pat Bowlen]

"no aimpoint too high for a homer!"

Bwaaaahaha

Please at least try to write better and don't insult because someone has trouble understanding caveman writing style.
It wasn't perfect grammar, but it wasn't really all that hard to understand, either.

[ro_50]

It will be an intense battle for playing time at DE if this trade goes down.

Perhaps Shanny like what he saw in the rookies over minicamp to talk about a trade like that.

I will be interested to see if a rookie becomes the number three corner.

[DBroncos4life]

It wasn't perfect grammar, but it wasn't really all that hard to understand, either.


So whats the good word on the trade Pat?

[TheReverend]

The good word is this thread is killing me. Trade Quentin Griffin/Mike Anderson. Keep Big Willie.

[Pat Bowlen]

So whats the good word on the trade Pat?
http://www.davyking.com/_borders/lipssealed.gif

[Florida_Bronco]

Sorry, I'm just not seeing this happening.

Despite the fact I'm a big fan of Middlebrooks, even being totally objective I just don't see this happening.

[DBroncos4life]

Sorry, I'm just not seeing this happening.

Despite the fact I'm a big fan of Middlebrooks, even being totally objective I just don't see this happening.


9ers fans seem to think that it will happen.

[SoCalBronco]

Sorry, I'm just not seeing this happening.

Despite the fact I'm a big fan of Middlebrooks, even being totally objective I just don't see this happening.

Why not?

[elsid13]

The only thing that worries me about this story is who broke it. Burger hasn't been seen in weeks and all of sudden he comes up with this. Though KFFL seems to have found a 49ers coach to comment

[Atlas]

So whats the good word on the trade Pat?

HJe don't know anything!! Where is Shanny?

[Tombstone RJ]

If there is any way to trade Willie and get a DE for him, do it. But, I have a feeling SF will want a conditional pick thrown in, even for Engleberger.

Someone suggested a Middlebrooks/Pierce trade for Andre Carter. That would be a good trade, IMO. He's definitely a starting LB, and he'd make the SF defense a whole lot better.

[SoCalBronco]

Engelberger is a fine player. He is a really hard worker, a real gritty type. That guy is solid. Really either of them would be great.

[Florida_Bronco]

Why not?

Just a feeling I guess. Any real reasons beyond that have already been mentioned here.

[watermock]

I'm a little confused why we need another DL. Maybe they are still concerned about how these DE's are recovering from injury, altho I haven't heard of any setbacks. Both Carter and Middlebrooks would have to pass physicals I would imagine. Still, I know Shanahan wanted Carter in the draft. If Middlebrooks isn't healthy, it could be moot anyway. If he IS healthy, I don't see why we are trading him with all the rookie, second year corners. We are going to have to release several DL anyway. Maybe we throw a DT that fits in their 3-4 that we think might not even make it past the cutdowns.

Regardless, I've been pretty happy with our moves so far. The combination of his injury history, spotty play and having the Shark as an agent next year might of broken the camel's back.

Who knows if Middlebrooks was even cleared to play yet? I thought it was his knee..not leg.

[SoCalBronco]

Just a feeling I guess. Any real reasons beyond that have already been mentioned here.

I think the only reasons why it might not happen are

A. Willie doesnt pass SFs physical

B. SF backs away at the last moment because of character concerns (which is something Nolan alluded to).

C. Shanny stubbornly refuses to give up some Day 2 pick along with Willie for either Engelburger or Carter should SF demand that.

D. SF backs away because they realize their getting swindled.

E. Some combination of the above.

[DB-Freak]

It wasn't perfect grammar, but it wasn't really all that hard to understand, either.
No aimpoint too high for a homer?

No I couldnt tell if he was referring to Shanahan, JUnkyard, or the homers.

It would have been better with

No. aimpoint too high for a homer.

So I can tell if No was not the adjective for aimpoint.

[Kaylore]

I hope we get Tony Parrish!



Hey! A man can dream! :homer:

[elsid13]

I hope we get Tony Parrish!



Hey! A man can dream! :homer:


WE already got the best WR the 49ers ever had, what else do you want????

[SoCalBronco]

I'd want a WR or a Guard if we don't get Carter for Willie.

I want Rashaun Woods. We'll turn his game around. That's one project from SF id love to pick up. He's still 4th on their depth chart. Problem is, his first round bonus would accelerate. I Dont think the 9ers would take a 3m cap hit for us.

[Florida_Bronco]

I think the only reasons why it might not happen are

A. Willie doesnt pass SFs physical

B. SF backs away at the last moment because of character concerns (which is something Nolan alluded to).

C. Shanny stubbornly refuses to give up some Day 2 pick along with Willie for either Engelburger or Carter should SF demand that.

D. SF backs away because they realize their getting swindled.

E. Some combination of the above.

Agree, but I would add to that list...

F. Current depth on the D-line affects trade.

[SoCalBronco]

Agree, but I would add to that list...

F. Current depth on the D-line affects trade.

Well i dont know if current depth on the DL is an issue right now. Maybe if someone on our side gets hurt in camp, than SF has more leverage and asks for Willie and something else thats relatively significant for one of those DEs but right now its not an issue since if they are discussing it, it means Shanny wants to supplement what he has now at DE.

[yavoon]

No aimpoint too high for a homer?

No I couldnt tell if he was referring to Shanahan, JUnkyard, or the homers.

It would have been better with

No. aimpoint too high for a homer.

So I can tell if No was not the adjective for aimpoint.

actually that would not convey what i wanted. the no was in reference to the aimpoint not a generality, so it would be stupid to leave it alone in its own sentence.

[yavoon]

"no aimpoint too high for a homer!"

Bwaaaahaha

Please at least try to write better and don't insult because someone has trouble understanding caveman writing style.

That sentence dictated ****.

So nxt tme pls wrt lttle bttr.

I bg f u.

ok whatever man. I can tell this is going take some quality flaming from u to makeup for what was a pretty obvious sentence.

[DBroncos4life]

The Denver Broncos called defensive end John Engelberger and his agent, Robert Lattinville, to inform him they are trying to finalize a trade in which Engelberger goes to the Broncos and the San Francisco 49ers receive cornerback Willie Middlebrooks.

Middlebrooks, a former 49ers first-round pick, has been shopped in trade conversations for the past couple of months. There was some interest by the Miami Dolphins, but the 49ers heated up their interest in the past couple of days.

Middlebrooks, 26, started only two games during his four seasons with the Broncos. He's a big corner at 6-1, 200 and is expected to fit in as the third corner in the 49ers 3-4 defense.

In acquiring Engelberger, the Broncos retain the public relations notion that they weren't unloading Middlebrooks as a disappointing draft choice. He was the 24th choice in the first round. His contract voided after this season and is scheduled to be a free agent.

Engelberger joins 16 other defensive linemen in Denver, but he comes to the team with talent. A former second-round choice who was the 35th pick in the 2000 draft, Engelberger started 58 of 78 games. The 49ers' switch to the 3-4 didn't fit Engelberger's abilities because he's a pure 4-3 defensive end.

The 49ers held off calling Engelberger until Wednesday because they wanted to investigate a domestic assault charge involving Middlebrooks that is scheduled to go to trail Oct. 11. The domestic charge involves a girlfriend.

Once they checked into the details of the case, the 49ers decided to go ahead and push to make the trade, which will be completed on Thursday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2107356

[SoCalBronco]

Excellent news. Welcome aboard John. He is one gritty player. Garcia, you got your Hokie.

Thanks for the article, DB.

[elsid13]

Wow. Bye Bye Willie

[DB-Freak]

ok whatever man. I can tell this is going take some quality flaming from u to makeup for what was a pretty obvious sentence.
Haha w/e

I don't care. It's just stupid to flame someone, because they couldnt understand caveman writing.

Keep thinking you're above everyone else.

[Hercules Rockefeller]

No draft picks are involved, good

[DBroncos4life]

Another DE that can get us 6 sacks a year. Tell me this isn't good and all it cost us was a guy that at some point in time would have been done for the year. What a GREAT day!!!! OH TRENT MEET OUR NEW FRIEND!!!!

[elsid13]

Let hope the remaining DBs are ready

[Play2win]

Sad and Glad at the same time.

I liked Middlebrooks. I liked his suddeness, and I think, given time, he could make big plays. But he has just been too much of a Work in Progress.

I think he could make an impact when he was on the field, but as someone noted earlier, He wasn't on the field when it counted.

This might have been inevitable ever since not seeing the field for a second year in a row against Indy in the playoffs...



I am excited to get another Body on the DLine! Thats where its at this year for the Broncos. If our DLine is successful, the Broncos will be (very!) successful.

Its been said, As Jake goes, so goes the Broncos, but what I think is even more true, especially this year, with the Broncos is As The DLine goes, so goes the Broncos.

[Cito Pelon]

It wasn't perfect grammar, but it wasn't really all that hard to understand, either.

Good shot.

[Cito Pelon]

What a GREAT day!!!! OH TRENT MEET OUR NEW FRIEND!!!!

Props.

[UltimateHoboW/Shotgun]

Here's my thing. Of all of Shannhan's picks Middlebrooks was the ultimate bust. People like to say that O'neal was a bust, but at least he made the Pro-bowl, started and contributed. Middlebrooks was just was never better than nickle package and special teams player.

If we could get Carter or even better Engelberger for Middlebrooks, I say do it. If we get Carter it'll be more of an equal trade considering that Carter has nwver done much with SF. But I would get geeked if we got Engelberger. He was really good when he was with Ari. and I think when Engelberger was aviliable Shannhan went after him until SF was giving up more money. Personally I think that we have a good shot to get Engelberger only for the simple fact that SF is moving to a 3-4 and Engelberger is a classic 4-3 edge rusher. And we would be getting him for cheap.

[footstepsfrom#27]

The Niner fans are divided but most seem to think they got the better end of the deal and they're talking like Engleburger has a fat contract...what's Willie making? I thought about $3.5 but maybe not...they're mostly impressed with his size/speed/potential and one guy said he'd benefit from some good coaching...they also think that Denver's a black whole for CB's...citing also Dale C and Deltha...here's the link and I'm "Hoofbeats" over there.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.cgi?board=main

[DBroncos4life]

The Niner fans are divided but most seem to think they got the better end of the deal and they're talking like Engleburger has a fat contract...what's Willie making? I thought about $3.5 but maybe not...they're mostly impressed with his size/speed/potential and one guy said he'd benefit from some good coaching...they also think that Denver's a black whole for CB's...citing also Dale C and Deltha...here's the link and I'm "Hoofbeats" over there.

http://www.49erswebzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/index.cgi?board=main


They seem to be pleased with the trade. As for them getting the better end of the deal, I kind of doubt that. Sounds like both teams may have ended up cutting both guys so no harm here. There wasn't alot of talk about Middlebrooks not playing a full year in the NFL or College for that matter.

[Ratboy]

Oh well.

There goes my favorite player.

[SoCalBronco]

Oh well.

There goes my favorite player.

Yeah its a sad day for Ratboy and Reverend. Its ok, you can pick a different favorite player. I think its prolly better for Willie this way, he needs a fresh start just as the Browncos needed one. I hope Willie is successful in SF, he is talented he just has to stay healthy.

[Ratboy]

Yeah its a sad day for Ratboy and Reverend. Its ok, you can pick a different favorite player. I think its prolly better for Willie this way, he needs a fresh start just as the Browncos needed one. I hope Willie is successful in SF, he is talented he just has to stay healthy.

:thumbsup: Yeah, I wish him the best..But in the future playing agianst us.. He better just sit on the bench :)

[Pat Bowlen]

No aimpoint too high for a homer?

No I couldnt tell if he was referring to Shanahan, JUnkyard, or the homers.

It would have been better with

No. aimpoint too high for a homer.

So I can tell if No was not the adjective for aimpoint.
It was pretty obvious to somebody with an objective view on football and decent reading comprehension that he was saying was, "There's never too much a homer can hope for!". It would have been ridiculous for us to have been able to trade Willie for Andre straight-up. You're making a big deal out of nothing.

[wabbit]

The real intrigue in this development is that had Willie remained healthy, he was on the brink of unseating Kelly Herndon.

If that had happened, there is at least a decent chance that Herndon would still be here because his value would have diminished somewhat.

Not a certainty by any means, but an interesting 'what if'

Even now, coaches with the Broncos would argue the 'bust' label I've often seen saddled on Middlebrooks. The red flag was the fact that he could never stay healthy, but he was developing into a starting-caliber CB & was an excellent Special Teams player.

I suspect the Rosenhaus connection didn't help, but the timeclock ran out here in Denver.

I wish him well in SF. If he gets...and stays healthy for any length of time, the 9ers got a good deal on a very badly needed position player...but so did Denver regardless of what Middlebrooks does.

[SoCalBronco]

Wabbit, have you heard about any other pending deals?

Mediator says this may only be the tip of the iceberg and more dealing could be on the way.

[wabbit]

I'm in Colorado Springs at the moment SoCal, so I'm a little out of touch, but I've just heard that there may be more moves before camp.

I'll have to get back in Denver & sniff around a little, but the secondary does seem a little thin, so more moves are certainly not out of the question.

Never a dull moment this off-season though, huh?

[SoCalBronco]

I'm in Colorado Springs at the moment SoCal, so I'm a little out of touch, but I've just heard that there may be more moves before camp.

I'll have to get back in Denver & sniff around a little, but the secondary does seem a little thin, so more moves are certainly not out of the question.

Never a dull moment this off-season though, huh?

Yep. Shanny has been going full tilt from day 1. I think he is doing his darndest to get us out of this rut. If it fails it sure as hell wont be for a lack of trying.

[maven]

[QUOTE=wabbit]

I'll have to get back in Denver & sniff around a little, but the secondary does seem a little thin, so more moves are certainly not out of the question.
QUOTE]

Ty Law :pray: :alghh: :militia:

[wabbit]

Ty Law?

You know, this was the first name I thought of, but how in the hell would you fit him in the cap structure?

Frankly though, I have not even heard his name mentioned with a Denver connection in any way.

Who is his agent...anyone know? If it's Rosenhaus, I'm not so sure Denver would even make inquiries.

I've read & heard that KC may still be the in the mix...even New England, and Miami has an offer on the table.

I've heard from one credible individual that Denver isn't done dealing, but then, I'm out of town & need to talk with some media folks before getting a feel for what might be going on.

We'll see

[Mr. Trout]

I think we need to go trial by fire and let our rooks get in there...Williams, Paymah, and Foxworth need to get out there and get seasoned. I just talked to my friend who is a chiefs fan tonight...yes it was painful conversing with him but Denver will be in the playoffs this year.

[Clockwork Orange]

Who is his agent...anyone know?

Unfortunately, the Postons. :cuss:

[wabbit]

Unfortunately, the Postons. :cuss:

Yeah, OK, well, then we can safely assume any deals in the works doesn't involve Ty Law.

[Odysseus]

Good luck Willie Middlebrooks. I think 9ers got a great deal. I guess the Broncos didn't figure Willie would be a factor on the field or as future trade bait. It could be a vote of confidence in Walls or just another in a series of interim of moves. Either way the Broncos tend to flood a position until they get the right mix. I hope our new guys are better than advertised. The DL cannot win the short game alone.

[Kaylore]

Well we certainly have even more depth at end than before, and this one isn't scrub. I'm hoping we bring in or trade for someone else this offseason, but I guess we'll see. We're still loaded at running back, so maybe we can swap for a corner. Hopefully so.

[Rascal]

Get back to work Wabbit!!! Since fat albert is doing his. J/K...about getting back to work.

I think we need some secondary help now as we are a bit thin there. I don't like the idea of going into the season with 3 rookies as our only depth.

There is no way we get Ty Law...but if we do that would override the decision to overpay for midget.

[DBroncos4life]

Whats left? Law, Taylor, Dewayne Washington, and T. Buck???

[Garcia Bronco]

Corners don't matter anymore....or rather don't mean as much. I'd be willing to bet the only reason we drafted so many is because of Oaklands new receivers and that's it. D-Line is where we need the most help right now, and we've got a good sample size to choose from. Again...GM Shanahan has put us in position to seriously compete for the Super Bowl.

[DB-Freak]

It was pretty obvious to somebody with an objective view on football and decent reading comprehension that he was saying was, "There's never too much a homer can hope for!". It would have been ridiculous for us to have been able to trade Willie for Andre straight-up. You're making a big deal out of nothing.
NO big deal. I just got carried away. I'm slow and that's that.

I did have an objective view and got the gist what he was saying. But I was just unclear.

[watermock]

I'm sure Burger Bill checks in here, I'm always amused how the Broncos literally ignored this site when you know they all check in here from time to time.

I bet even Woody looks in for a take when he runs out of bad jokes. I saw him steal a take of mine, almost literally.

At any rate, Fat Albert might be a little over the top. First, it doesn't give Albert any cred. He was at least funny. Reading Williamson is like watching Elwood eat dry toast. If he even ate try toast it would be interesting actually.,

"I'm Elwood Blues, and I eat nakid toast...I'm a sportswriter in Denver...."

"The real Burger Bill shows up......Give me three LIVE CHICKENS..."

"Where the Hell you from?"

"Joliet, but I'm on parole with the Denver Post...now where are those chickens!"

[Garcia Bronco]

I'm sure Burger Bill checks in here, I'm always amused how the Broncos literally ignored this site when you know they all check in here from time to time.

I bet even Woody looks in for a take when he runs out of bad jokes. I saw him steal a take of mine, almost literally.

At any rate, Fat Albert might be a little over the top. First, it doesn't give Albert any cred. He was at least funny. Reading Williamson is like watching Elwood eat dry toast.


You're not kidding.

[watermock]

Still, you have to admire on Elwood surving in prison bread.

We won't discuss the three live chickens John Belushi ate.

[Lestat]

this trade should certainly be intresting, insurance for Pryce & Brown i guess :)

[watermock]

"You sold a microphone for a car...fix the lighter...

"It's got cop tires, cop wheels, cop breaks...they were practically giving them away..."

"Hey the Oldsmobiles are in early this year...."

[Needa Pass Rush]

I had the surprise opportunity to speak with Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome today. Got him talking a little football. He said they liked Middlebrooks a lot coming out of college. He also said that qb Campbell ('Skins pick they acquired from Den) would be a good player for Gibbs in Washington, but maybe not soon enough to help him.

I picked his brain a little regarding the skins trying to get a feel for how he saw them this year. He thinks getting Jansen back will be huge and Santana Moss should be about an even swap for Coles. He liked that they would be changing the scheme on O some to get Portis more room to run. He said the bottom line with the skins would be how Ramsey responded. He felt that the skins could be a good team if Ramsey doesn't shoot them in the foot.

I also congratulated him on putting together a hell of a team this year. The Ravens should be tough to beat again this year.

[illbroncsfn]

Thanks for these tidbits NPR. It's always nice to hear other professional's opinions to add to the overall perspective. With any luck I hope you have to change your handle this upcoming year...
I had the surprise opportunity to speak with Ravens GM Ozzie Newsome today. Got him talking a little football. He said they liked Middlebrooks a lot coming out of college. He also said that qb Campbell ('Skins pick they acquired from Den) would be a good player for Gibbs in Washington, but maybe not soon enough to help him.

I picked his brain a little regarding the skins trying to get a feel for how he saw them this year. He thinks getting Jansen back will be huge and Santana Moss should be about an even swap for Coles. He liked that they would be changing the scheme on O some to get Portis more room to run. He said the bottom line with the skins would be how Ramsey responded. He felt that the skins could be a good team if Ramsey doesn't shoot them in the foot.

I also congratulated him on putting together a hell of a team this year. The Ravens should be tough to beat again this year.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Thanks for these tidbits NPR. It's always nice to hear other professional's opinions to add to the overall perspective. With any luck I hope you have to change your handle this upcoming year...

Thanks, ill.... I've been thinking along the same lines lately.

re: Ozzie... he is one big mofo. You could out run him on your hands and knees, though. He moved like his knees were fused together. A real nice guy, though. He was playing golf with the owner of the ravens and gary williams the head (basketball) coach of the Maryland Terps.

[Needa Pass Rush]

Also, I had forgotten that Newsome was on the losing end of "the drive" and "the fumble" games. I'm sure he appreciated me not picking at that old war wound. ;D

[Kaylore]

Corners don't matter anymore....or rather don't mean as much.
I've heard this and the opposite is true. Actually, receivers are worth less and good corners are worth more. Its simple economics.

The Receivers ability to get open and get down field has greatly aided by the new rule-calling. Stats of all QB's and receivers were WAY up across the board allowing even Quitterson to get 1,000 yards last season. So what this tells us is that you can now have a competitive passing attack without investing a terrible amount in receivers because the difficulty level was lowered one grade. It went up for corners, and so if you have a good corner, one that can actually play man and be effective, that is only MORE valuable because that means he's even better than he needed to be before.

So a lot of people are saying Corners are worthless, but I think its the total opposite. To suggest that an entire possition is pointless because of a rule change is folly. True, its easier to just get a good pass rush, but you need good corners to be able give the pass rush time and to make plays down field. Remember that there was increase of offensive pass interference calls last year as well. The league is opening it up but they aren't throwing a possition away.

[Pat Bowlen]

"Hey the Oldsmobiles are in early this year...."
"This mall's got everything..."

[watermock]

"That's the trainsit. I got great rent. You won't even notice the...Hey you sleaze..."

"did you get me my cheesewhizz"?

I think it's the funniest movie of all time next to Young Frankenstein.

"It's got cop tires, cop shocks, she can run at 140 without blinking...are you listening?"

"fix the lighter"

"so it's the new bluesmobile..."

"you sold the bluesmobkile for a microphone?"

"They were practically giving them away"

Personally, I think it's the funniest movie of all time.

[Pat Bowlen]

"How much for the little girl?" (http://www.wavsource.com/snds_2005-07-14_1389973127623691/movies/blues_bros/how_much.wav)